NationStates Jolt Archive

This Comes After Israel Leaked Papers That Listed Their Plan Of Attacking Iran In Early March 2006

Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said on Wednesday the Holocaust was a myth, reiterating a view that has caused international uproar and drawn a rebuke from the U.N. Security Council.


http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2005-12-14T074802Z_01_SCH427002_RTRUKOC_0_US-IRAN-HOLOCAUST.xml&rpc=22 (http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2005-12-14T074802Z_01_SCH427002_RTRUKOC_0_US-IRAN-HOLOCAUST.xml&rpc=22)

Is Anyone Else Scared Or Is It Just Me?

So begins WWIII.

So begins WWIII.
You may have something there.

Here's the hypothesis:

If you attack the Jews, you get your ass handed to you - if not now, then soon. And it's not necessarily the Jews that will take you to the woodshed - I believe that in some cases, wasting your government's resources on killing Jews makes you weaker, and you can succumb to forces that may even be internal.

A smart nation engages in Realpolitik. You don't go around picking fights with people who aren't planning to waste you.

"Iran Says The Holocaust Never Existed"

And this comes as some sort of surprise to you?? :eek:

It should come as no surprise that Israel is pushing for war.... they know that Bush will support them, and the US will become co-conspirators in Israel's attempt to reshape the region to their own liking.

Regarding what the Iranians are saying... without taking a head-count of bodies after WW2, and finding some way of ascertaining FOR SURE how many were Jewish.... it has to be said, ANY numbers we have are guesses.

If the Iranians are hinting at things they have said before, they are NOT saying 'no Jews died'... more that they don't believe the numbers claimed to be even close to 'true'.

The war between the US and Iran may be the beginning of WWIII as Iran is allied with Russia. We will have a resumption of the Cold War that could erupt in something much worse. Now the people who brought us the war in Iraq want desperately to wage war in Iran. Israel has been talking very tough and may soon act. With holocaust denial comming from Iran, the anti-Iran cause gains a great deal of European support. There are a lot of things that might happen, but there's an awful lot at stake here.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see their differing viewpoint of history to be a good reason for global war to break out.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see their differing viewpoint of history to be a good reason for global war to break out.

Indeed, its a bit like the UK declaring war on the Vatican for their differing views on the creation.

The war between the US and Iran may be the beginning of WWIII as Iran is allied with Russia.

Russia is not averse to making money from countries which US calls enemies.

But they aren't going to do anything other than extracting their pound of flesh in the bargain.

Is Anyone Else Scared Or Is It Just Me?Its just you..

I know I am not scared.. Why? because I know This is nothing new...

Iran has never recognized Israel.. Iran and Israel have always traded inflammatory statements...

What else is new?

And this comes as some sort of surprise to you?? :eek:my point exactly.

"Iran Says The Holocaust Never Existed"

And this comes as some sort of surprise to you?? :eek:

A voice of reason.

I am shocked and appaled given the warm relations between Iran and Isreal to this point.

It should come as no surprise that Israel is pushing for war....
Israel is pushing for war???

Do you get everything else backwards too?

Do remind me who proposed wiping whom out.


Regarding what the Iranians are saying... without taking a head-count of bodies after WW2, and finding some way of ascertaining FOR SURE how many were Jewish.... it has to be said, ANY numbers we have are guesses.
Ahh, so you're one of those...

Israel is pushing for war???

Do you get everything else backwards too?

Do remind me who proposed wiping whom out.


Well... let's see.... we've had Iranian comments made by politicians, about how Israel should basically be pushed into the sea... have we not?

But then... that is rhetoric, I believe.

In comparison to what the original poster mentioned "Israel Leaked Papers That Listed Their Plan Of Attacking Iran In Early March 2006".

It seems that one power has made definite plans to attack the other... and that 'attacking' power SEEMS to be Israel, no?



Ahh, so you're one of those...

I am one of who?

I suggest you think for a moment, before you begin casting aspersions.

Israel is pushing for war???

Do you get everything else backwards too?

Do remind me who proposed wiping whom out.



Ahh, so you're one of those...

1. So then its always the Muslims right? Isreal admitting they planned an invasion of Iran that wasnt any type of provocation--nooo.

2. Why is he backwards? Because he doesnt see things your way?

3. most importantly---you used a generalizing essentially bigoted insult against someone becuase they used all of the avialable facts they possesed to make a FAIR and reasonable conclusion---when in an alternative you could provide all the proof sources you have for your belief----or did you just take what someone spoon fed you?

Do I belive the Holocaust happened--yes.

Worst act in history? hardly, first case of genocide? not at all, horrible? you bet.

Isrealis are just as guilty as the Iranians--they arent stomping around over there with an olive branch trying to get along with people.

Worst act in history? hardly, first case of genocide? not at all, horrible? you bet.


Indeed... on the subject of 'Anti-Semitic' Genocides.... the most well documented 'Anti-Semitic' Genocide was several thousand years ago... when the Semitic tribe of Canaanites were the victims of a genocide by the group we now loosely call 'Jews'.

i dont see why a civilised country would go to war over something as petty as that,

:rolleyes: wait a minute its Israel.. never mind i get it now

What's this Hollycause thing everyone keeps speaking about?

So Israel has formulated plans to attack Iran. So what? If a bigger country who is working on nuclear weapons, has sponsored terrorists against you, and makes comments about wiping you off the map seems to be close to producing the weapons to make their dreams a reality you're supposed to come up with plans on how to defeat them. To do otherwise is to commit suicide.

guys, now other nations are getting upset at iran

http://drudgereport.com/flash5.htm (http://drudgereport.com/flash5.htm)

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/14/051214151652.adnc08ms.html (http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/14/051214151652.adnc08ms.html)

http://drudgereport.com/flash8.htm (http://drudgereport.com/flash8.htm)

Let's hope Israel does what it did to Iraq in 1981, and bomb the hell out of their research facilities...

So Israel has formulated plans to attack Iran. So what? If a bigger country who is working on nuclear weapons, has sponsored terrorists against you, and makes comments about wiping you off the map seems to be close to producing the weapons to make their dreams a reality you're supposed to come up with plans on how to defeat them. To do otherwise is to commit suicide.

But that's all conjecture. You can't prove that Iran had any plans to invade Israel, but we have proof that Israel planned to invade Iran. The US made all sorts of comments about North Korea and Iran being evil, and we have nukes, but you couldn't say that the US was going to invade those nations, and if they struck first proactively, they would be seen as the aggressor, not the US.

Let's hope Israel does what it did to Iraq in 1981, and bomb the hell out of their research facilities...

I fear that they would be more difficult to reach, given that Israel already managed to bomb that Iraqi nuclear reactor 25 years ago. I don't know anything about where Iran's facilities are, but I'm guessing that Iran has learned from that event and taken precautions.

I fear that they would be more difficult to reach, given that Israel already managed to bomb that Iraqi nuclear reactor 25 years ago. I don't know anything about where Iran's facilities are, but I'm guessing that Iran has learned from that event and taken precautions.

You would have to be not only more than 100 meters below ground, but have no vents or entrances leading to the surface if you want to survive being hit by a GBU-28 or similar weapon.

The US has the B-61 Mod 11 - and it won't matter how deep or hardened you are if that thing lands on you - it penetrates first and then it's a 120 kt thermonuclear explosion. And it lands *exactly* where they specify, because it's GPS guided.

http://drudgereport.com/flash5.htm (http://drudgereport.com/flash5.htm)

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/14/051214151652.adnc08ms.html (http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/14/051214151652.adnc08ms.html)

http://drudgereport.com/flash8.htm (http://drudgereport.com/flash8.htm)fudgereport.com and BartBreath.com .. are both on my ignore list... Do you have anything else?

ill fight mono-e-mono anyone who says the holocaust is a myth

i dont see why a civilised country would go to war over something as petty as that,

:rolleyes: wait a minute its Israel.. never mind i get it now

Israel has good enough reason to be concerned. They aren't going to war over words, but over Iran's nuclear program. Israel is worried because Iran has repeatedly called for Israel's destruction, all the while developing nuclear technology.

In any case, I believe the US and UK went to war over something (WMD's) that didn't exist.

[QUOTE=Sdaeriji]But that's all conjecture. You can't prove that Iran had any plans to invade Israel, but we have proof that Israel planned to invade Iran.
QUOTE]

Well, if the West has better access to Israeli plans, logically you'd think this would be the case. In other words, it would be hard for the West to find out if Iran has any plans.

Indeed... on the subject of 'Anti-Semitic' Genocides.... the most well documented 'Anti-Semitic' Genocide was several thousand years ago... when the Semitic tribe of Canaanites were the victims of a genocide by the group we now loosely call 'Jews'.

It seems you're trying to put blame on Jews. Why does this forum have so many borderline anti-semites?

It seems you're trying to put blame on Jews. Why does this forum have so many borderline anti-semites?
It usually comes from one of three sources:

1. Nazis (a relative rarity here).
2. Far left (very common here) who loathe the West. See Orwell's remarks on this sort of person.
3. Arab or Arab sympathizer

STOP THE PRESSES!

Someone said something CRAZY and STUPID in the MIDDLE EAST!!!


Next thing you know, the israelis will say that "god gave" them their land....


And then the christians will chime in that their fellow who lived down there came back from the dead!

And it might spread, americans might say "weapons of mass destruction!"

!!!

You would have to be not only more than 100 meters below ground, but have no vents or entrances leading to the surface if you want to survive being hit by a GBU-28 or similar weapon.

The US has the B-61 Mod 11 - and it won't matter how deep or hardened you are if that thing lands on you - it penetrates first and then it's a 120 kt thermonuclear explosion. And it lands *exactly* where they specify, because it's GPS guided.

1: Does Israel have that kind of weapon?
2: Does Israel wish to up the ante by using nuclear weapons?
3: Does Israel have good enough intelligence to find the target? (A couple of years ago I would have said "Yes, because they get such fine intel from the CIA..." :cool: )

This Comes After Israel Leaked Papers That Listed Their Plan Of Attacking Iran In Early March 2006
Is Anyone Else Scared Or Is It Just Me?
Hopefully it's just you who thinks that Dubya speaks for every man woman and child in America. And before any of the neocons starts pissing and whining, that's a precise analogy. If you're going to complain that you didn't vote for the chimp, you need to grasp that a foreign nation's leader might not have a unanimous mandate either.

t seems you're trying to put blame on Jews. Why does this forum have so many borderline anti-semites?
It's probably something to do with the genocide campaign in Palestine.

It seems you're trying to put blame on Jews. Why does this forum have so many borderline anti-semites?

So, you are calling a Jew, an Anti-Semite?

I think you watched 'The Believer' one time too many, my friend.

Seeing that there is a context, is not 'anti-semitic'.

Also - notice, I didn't say that the Jews massacring Canaanites justified some Iranian policy. I didn't even say that Iran's anti-Israel stance was connected to Jewish ancient history.

Before you make comments like "you're trying to put the blame on Jews", you might like to look into whether THAT is actually even an element of what you are responding to.

And, I do not appreciate being called an "Anti-Semite".... borderline or otherwise.


If there is a problem here, it is the fact that many people perceive Israel as somekind of virgo intacta, who can do no wrong. It is ALWAYS a bad idea to assume that any one person/organisation/nation/race can be defined by any one generalisation.

Look at the news reports, Israel is not completely innocent of slinging crap, here.

Aaaand we care what Iran says ........ why?

Aaaand we care what Iran says ........ why?

Because we are rapidly running out of people to call our enemy, so it's time to make some new ones. Like Iran did when they wiped out thier thriving Jewish population some years ago. Hey, wait a minute....

Aaaand we care what Iran says ........ why?

Something to do with Isreal I imagine. Ask the New York congressional delegation, they are usually all over this kind of shit.

Only a few weeks ago Anthony Weiner was going nuts about Europe and Jerusalem.

If you're going to complain that you didn't vote for the chimp, you need to grasp that a foreign nation's leader might not have a unanimous mandate either.



What a preposterous concept!!
What would make this funnier is if a higher percentage of Iranians voted than did Americans......

But that's all conjecture. You can't prove that Iran had any plans to invade Israel, but we have proof that Israel planned to invade Iran. The US made all sorts of comments about North Korea and Iran being evil, and we have nukes, but you couldn't say that the US was going to invade those nations, and if they struck first proactively, they would be seen as the aggressor, not the US.

I'd love to watch Israel and Iran try to invade each other. Usually invading another nation requires that you share a common border....

I'd love to watch Israel and Iran try to invade each other. Usually invading another nation requires that you share a common border....
...

Like the USA and Iraq?

Japan and Korea?

Spain and Mexico?

Something to do with Isreal I imagine.

Meh ... we could give two shits less than a mousetrap about most countries on the planet, but we're going to base policy on a UN decision made in the 40s while we simultaneously spit on the UN and, against their wishes, go to war with a country with the sole reason of "they tried to kill my daddy"?

Wow .... Canada is looking better and better to me.

So, you are calling a Jew, an Anti-Semite?

I think you watched 'The Believer' one time too many, my friend.

Seeing that there is a context, is not 'anti-semitic'.

Also - notice, I didn't say that the Jews massacring Canaanites justified some Iranian policy. I didn't even say that Iran's anti-Israel stance was connected to Jewish ancient history.

Before you make comments like "you're trying to put the blame on Jews", you might like to look into whether THAT is actually even an element of what you are responding to.

And, I do not appreciate being called an "Anti-Semite".... borderline or otherwise.


If there is a problem here, it is the fact that many people perceive Israel as somekind of virgo intacta, who can do no wrong. It is ALWAYS a bad idea to assume that any one person/organisation/nation/race can be defined by any one generalisation.

Look at the news reports, Israel is not completely innocent of slinging crap, here.

Well, there are self-loathing Jews.

P.S. I'm Jewish as well

I am concerned about anti-semitism because of the rise in anti-semitic violence in recent years. It's something that must be faced, not ignored.

Many people percieve their own countries as something that can do no wrong. It isn't just restricted to Israel. Of course it is a bad idea to generalize people, but where have I done this?

...

Like the USA and Iraq?

Japan and Korea?

Spain and Mexico?

USA: Has the finest Navy on earth.
Japan: Had the finest Navy in the region.
Spain: Had the finest Navy on earth at the time.

Iran doesn't have a navy. And Israel's navy doesn't have any amphibious capabilities beyond landing a few naval commando units.

Meh ... we could give two shits less than a mousetrap about most countries on the planet, but we're going to base policy on a UN decision made in the 40s while we simultaneously spit on the UN and, against their wishes, go to war with a country with the sole reason of "they tried to kill my daddy"?

Wow .... Canada is looking better and better to me.

Well you are right about that, no-one gave a fuck about what happened to lebanon.

The thing is though both the left and the right in this country have core constituencies that are mad keen on Isreal. Especially the New York Jews, and the evangelical christians. (The last group need it for their rapture project).

After all my talk about wiping out holocaust deniers, a whole government had to go and deny it. Geez, give me a break!

I better get busy... *Loads a clip*

Bush Repeats That Iran Is a Threat

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/14/051215001308.0iv6j3xt.html

Iraq was also a threat....


looks like another war gentelmen

Bush Repeats That Iran Is a Threat

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/14/051215001308.0iv6j3xt.html

Iraq was also a threat....


looks like another war gentelmen

Not likely given the unpopularity of the current war. And where would Bush get the soldiers? Unless Bush manages to pull a couple Divisions out of his ass, there won't be a war.

Map of Iran (http://www.msubillings.edu/history/iran.jpg)

South Asia Map for your convenience (http://www.conjecturer.com/kazakhstan/images/map-south-asia2.jpg)

An invasion of Iran is not only unlikely, but politically impossible. Bush can't support any war on Iran unless he can confront domestic unrest up the wazoo, and he's already below a 50% approval rating. Short of pushing Dictatorial Executive Orders, he can't do squat to hold down the American mob. BUT.... lets say it does happen. How's it gonna work militarily?

(Consider Turkey, Pakistan, Russia, and Syria as the most obvious obstacles)

(Consider Kurdistan as the most dominant underground motive)

You may have something there.

Here's the hypothesis:

If you attack the Jews, you get your ass handed to you - if not now, then soon. And it's not necessarily the Jews that will take you to the woodshed - I believe that in some cases, wasting your government's resources on killing Jews makes you weaker, and you can succumb to forces that may even be internal.

A smart nation engages in Realpolitik. You don't go around picking fights with people who aren't planning to waste you.

Realpolitik is the only realistic way in politics... And anyways, each state has its national interests and it will always be that way. But considering what the Iranian regime is saying about the Holocaust, I think they should have more than just condemnations, but real sanctions under the aegis of the UN Security Council.
It seems like they have no interest in negotiating about their nuclear program so we should not fall into the trap of such a terrorist and rogue regime.

Iran Says The Holocaust Never Existed

so i say iran never existed. problem solved.

Is Anyone Else Scared Or Is It Just Me?

oh, rest assured, i am, too. that's what excessive capitalizing does to me.

Mmmh... I kinda agree with the guy... But before you call me a big goddamn anti-semitist (which is the worst crime in the world, before incest, murder and raping :P), I gotta explain the context...

60 years ago, a state called Israel was created (after the Holocaust). Palestinians who lived in the states have seen the political of scionism (Jews returning to the sacred ground), and saw more and more Jewish people in their neighborhood. Up to that point, there's no problem.

However, when the scionists asked to have THEIR OWN LAND in a country that already existed and that they abandonned years before... the UN agreed to give them a land that was considered a sacred ground for catholics, muslims and them. Instead of keeping the ground neutral, the UN made the mistake of making it a Jewish state (that's not racism, it's just that it's not impartial). The muslims and Jews are now in a 60 year-old conflict over Israel, because nobody wants the other in their land.

Now where I think I kinda agree with the leader of Iran, is that the holocaust IS the cause of all this. The UN (you have to return back to the 1950's) received pressure from the Jews because of the hiolocaust (they lost around 5 millions of Jews... and all the Jews who stayed in Europe suffered from the nazis), so the UN HAD to do something to repay them. That's why they created Israel and why there's been a 60 year-long war over this so-called "sacred ground". So if we trace back to the holocaust, it's all normal that the muslim leader of Iran blames the holocaust for this.

As for pretending it doesn't exist, I totally disagree with him, but I admit that the holocaust IS the cause of this war in the arabian states, a war that's not about to end.

Mmmh... I kinda agree with the guy... But before you call me a big goddamn anti-semitist (which is the worst crime in the world, before incest, murder and raping :P), I gotta explain the context...

60 years ago, a state called Israel was created (after the Holocaust). Palestinians who lived in the states have seen the political of scionism (Jews returning to the sacred ground), and saw more and more Jewish people in their neighborhood. Up to that point, there's no problem.

However, when the scionists asked to have THEIR OWN LAND in a country that already existed and that they abandonned years before... the UN agreed to give them a land that was considered a sacred ground for catholics, muslims and them. Instead of keeping the ground neutral, the UN made the mistake of making it a Jewish state (that's not racism, it's just that it's not impartial). The muslims and Jews are now in a 60 year-old conflict over Israel, because nobody wants the other in their land.

Now where I think I kinda agree with the leader of Iran, is that the holocaust IS the cause of all this. The UN (you have to return back to the 1950's) received pressure from the Jews because of the hiolocaust (they lost around 5 millions of Jews... and all the Jews who stayed in Europe suffered from the nazis), so the UN HAD to do something to repay them. That's why they created Israel and why there's been a 60 year-long war over this so-called "sacred ground". So if we trace back to the holocaust, it's all normal that the muslim leader of Iran blames the holocaust for this.

As for pretending it doesn't exist, I totally disagree with him, but I admit that the holocaust IS the cause of this war in the arabian states, a war that's not about to end.


Wrong, wrong, and wrong.

Israel was created in 1948, after UN Resolution 181 partitioned the territory of the British Mandate for Palestine into two states for Jews and Palestinian Arabs. The Arabs objected to the creation of the Jewish state and fought a war against it. The Arab side lost the war, and the Palestinian state never really came into being. The territory allotted to the Palestinian state by the UN partition resolution was taken over by Israel and Jordan. About 780,000 Palestinians became refugees.

I merely hope that these two people make the right descision not to destroy themselves, for it will only result in the complete and utter destruction.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong.

Israel was created in 1948, after UN Resolution 181 partitioned the territory of the British Mandate for Palestine into two states for Jews and Palestinian Arabs. The Arabs objected to the creation of the Jewish state and fought a war against it. The Arab side lost the war, and the Palestinian state never really came into being. The territory allotted to the Palestinian state by the UN partition resolution was taken over by Israel and Jordan. About 780,000 Palestinians became refugees.

You're getting all that I said wrong...

Return to the context.

1945: Holocaust ends. The Jews in Europe and all over the world feel left out. Some rumors say the Allies knew about the concentration camps, but that they weren't the priority. The Jews feel out of their place.

Sionism: Movement after the Holocaust. The European Jews wanted to return to the sacred ground. Many Jews spend all their earnings just for the boat ticket, and were taken back to their own country because they didn't have the proper passport or didn't receive the status of immigrant. Neverthless, when these people returned to their own country, they started earning money, and took another boat trip to return to the sacred ground of Israel.

The UN, seing this movement, received many pressures, and decided to make Israel a Jewish state. Now, return in the context. You are not wrong. The UN adopted the act and everything. Now why did they do that? Because many Jews came to Israel. However, you know as well as I do that muslims were living in that country, and that Israel is also considered their sacred ground. The fact that the UN made a Jewish state, and not a multicultural state, started out the whole war.

You know the facts better than I do. I just don't understand how you are not able to link HOLOCAUST and ISRAEL. They ARE linked, because without the holocaust, Israel would have never existed. It's because of sionism that the Jews asked to receive their very own state. It's because of the holocaust that the Jews decided to return to Israel. And it's because a phenomenal number of Jews came to Israel that the UN decided to create a Jewish state.

I think the leader of Iran's act IS racist, and should be condemned. However, I'm not saying that he is right, I'm saying there's a part of truth in what he said, that the holocaust IS the cause of this war that restarted 60 year ago.

The UN made TWO states - the Arabs rejected any of it - they just didn't want ANY Jewish state.

Good discussion, I know I do things that drive people nuts.

But this is driving me nuts.

It isnt scionism it is Zionism.
A scion is:
http://www.onelook.com/?w=Scion&ls=a

Scionism is not a word.

Zionism, Zionist, blah blah:
http://www.onelook.com/?w=Zionism&ls=a

Cool carry on, sorry.

An invasion of Iran is not only unlikely, but politically impossible. Bush can't support any war on Iran unless he can confront domestic unrest up the wazoo, and he's already below a 50% approval rating. Short of pushing Dictatorial Executive Orders, he can't do squat to hold down the American mob. BUT.... lets say it does happen. How's it gonna work militarily?

(Consider Turkey, Pakistan, Russia, and Syria as the most obvious obstacles)the Biggest obstacles are sitting on the security council... I think the Bush can buy Russia vote... but I do not think Bush can buy China's Vote.

the Biggest obstacles are sitting on the security council... I think the Bush can buy Russia vote... but I do not think Bush can buy China's Vote.
Who cares who vetoes what on the Security Council? And although China may veto or abstain, they won't interfere.

Its an interesting situation really. The question is why did he say this. Was it to garner support within the country, was it an attempt to draw attention away from other issues in the international and home forums, or is the guy just batshit insane? Only time will tell.

the Biggest obstacles are sitting on the security council... I think the Bush can buy Russia vote... but I do not think Bush can buy China's Vote.

China would probably SUPPORT a war on Iran... Give them a oil field or two, no problem for them.

Its an interesting situation really. The question is why did he say this. Was it to garner support within the country, was it an attempt to draw attention away from other issues in the international and home forums, or is the guy just batshit insane? Only time will tell.
It might be for domestic consumption while he negotiates.
It might be the idea that Kissinger promoted for nuclear arms negotiations. Play chicken. If you appear crazier than the other guy, and throw the steering wheel and brake pedal out of the car while you careen towards him, the other person will give in to your demands.

China would probably SUPPORT a war on Iran... Give them a oil field or two, no problem for them.err... Mr President is that you?

..want a banana?

err... Mr President is that you?

..want a banana?

Idiocy attacking other idiocy is still idiocy. :rolleyes:

China may veto or abstain, they won't interfere.If China abstains.. it is in fact a green light.. It would mean we offered something Big to China.. Probably Taiwan. (it is not impossible)

Do you realize? what It would mean if we invade Iran.. after China said "NO"

Do you?

Who cares who vetoes what on the Security Council? Presidents and Kings do... Genrals and Ministers Do...

I Do.

Most peoples of the World do care.

If China abstains.. it is in fact a green light.. It would mean we offered something Big to China.. Probably Taiwan. (it is not impossible)

Do you realize? what It would mean if we invade Iran.. after China said "NO"

Do you?

Well it all depends. How willing is China to start a fight that will likely culminate in a nuclear holocaust which will proabably decimate the planet? The thing is countries with nukes don't want to fight eachother due to that little thing called the principle of mutual destruction. So it really depends on how important Iran is to China.

Presidents and Kings do... Genrals and Ministers Do...

I Do.

Most peoples of the World do care.
Obviously not enough to do anything about nations that do whatever they like.

You'll notice that there's no economic embargo against the US for invading Iraq. No international military force attacking the US for invading Iraq.

Looks like most of the people in the world don't have the backbone to do anything at all.

Well it all depends. How willing is China to start a fight that will likely culminate in a nuclear holocaust...I am not even talking about that...

Most people of the World think that the Iraq War is Quite Illegal..

Bush has manged to give some resemblance of Legality that has somewhat convinced (or at least they doubt) approx. some 70% of the US pop , maybe 40% of the 1st World ountries.. and less than 30% of the others..

If the US invades Iran without a SC resolution... It cannot pretend Legality.. It will simply not fly...

The UN will implode... and it will be the US fault..
I do realize that the UN is not popular in our Country..
But we must stop ignoring the opinions of the ROW peoples.

The UN will implode... and it will be the US fault..


I'll give you a hint - it's already as moribund as its predecessor, the League of Nations.

I am not even talking about that...

Most people of the World think that the Iraq War is Quite Illegal..

Bush has manged to give some resemblance of Legality that has somewhat convinced (or at least they doubt)

.. to approx. some 70% of the US pop , maybe 40% of the Anglo Countries.. and less than 20% of the others..

If the US invades Iran without a SC resolution... It cannot pretend Legality.. It will simply not fly...

The UN will implode... and it will be the US fault.. I do realize that the UN is not popular in our Country..
But we must stop ignoring the opinions of the ROW peoples.
I do believe the words from Dennis Leary's song "I'm an Asshole" apply here.

And there ain't a Goddamn thing anybody can do about it
You know why?
'Cause we got the bombs, that's why!
Two words: Nuclear Fuckin' Weapons
Okay!?
Russia, Germany, Romania
They can have all the Democracy they want
They can have a big Democracy cake walk
Right through the middle of Tienemen Square
And it won't make a lick of difference
Because we got the bombs
Okay!?

Idiocy attacking other idiocy is still idiocy. :rolleyes:it was either a banana or a pretzel :D

it was either a banana or a pretzel :D

Mmmmm pretzel :rolleyes:

And there ain't a Goddamn thing anybody can do about it
You know why?
'Cause we got the bombs, that's why!
Two words: Nuclear Fuckin' Weapons
Okay!?this one is for you:

http://fruitsquare.net/images/hosting_banana_picture.jpg
Merry Christmas :D

this one is for you:

http://fruitsquare.net/images/hosting_banana_picture.jpg
Merry Christmas :D

lol your assuming I'm using that as a justification aww thats a good one. Sarcasm much?:rolleyes:

I'll give you a hint - it's already as moribund as its predecessor, the League of Nations.I do think that the UN need an Uber overhaul...or even better we should to scrap this UN.. And make a new one. WITHOUT VETOES.

but... We have to let the UN destroy itself... We do not want be known as the Ones that destroyed the UN... Trust me.

Why does everyone assume Bush is going to jump in and help Israel with military victory. Does anybody remember the June War? Israel and Egypt got into it. Syria and Jordan joined in against Israel. Israel wins.
Yom Kippur War - Egypt and Syria launch a suprise assault on Israel hoping to regain territories lost in during the June War. Egypt and Syria gain a few miles of territory along Sinai but Israel gains control of something like 90% of the Golan Heights and a foothold in Africa, along the Suez canal, by the time the UN ceasefire came around.
Israel is quite capable of defending itself without US intervention.

lol your assuming I'm using that as a justification aww thats a good one. Sarcasm much?:rolleyes:It is the official "Bush in-personification trophy".

I give one every month to the Best Bushism... unless ...there is an exceptional performance. :D

I'll give you a hint - it's already as moribund as its predecessor, the League of Nations.
No I don't think so. While it's in need of some seriou shake-up, The UN has made progress in the world situation and has some good things going on. It'll be around for quite a while.

Does anybody remember the June War? Israel and Egypt got into it. Syria and Jordan joined in against Israel. Israel wins.
Iran is not going to attack Israel (unless attacked)

..on the hand I think Israel is crazy enough to commit an Act-of-War against Iran..

It is the official "Bush in-personification trophy".

I give one every month to the Best Bushism... unless ...there is an exceptional performance. :D

Oh in that case I'll accept that for the hell of it.

Iran is not going to attack Israel (unless attacked)

..on the hand I think Israel is crazy enough to commit an Act-of-War against Iran..

That wasn't my point. I'm just pointing out that I doubt Bush will get involved is Israel gets itself into a war.

The UN made TWO states - the Arabs rejected any of it - they just didn't want ANY Jewish state.

The problem with this assertion, is that saying "made TWO states", makes it sound like these are artifacts, crafted out of the ether, and placed in a blank area of the map.