NationStates Jolt Archive

Yes, now that we're trying to have an election, who ships a truckload of fake, pre-filled ballots across the border? The Iranians!

I think that the Iranians don't really like the idea of a free Iraq on their borders.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/14/international/middleeast/14iraq.html?pagewanted=print

BAGHDAD, Iraq, Dec. 13 - Less than two days before nationwide elections, the Iraqi border police seized a tanker on Tuesday that had just crossed from Iran filled with thousands of forged ballots, an official at the Interior Ministry said.

The tanker was seized in the evening by agents with the American-trained border protection force at the Iraqi town of Badra, after crossing at Munthirya on the Iraqi border, the official said. According to the Iraqi official, the border police found several thousand partly completed ballots inside.

The official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly, said the Iranian truck driver told the police under interrogation that at least three other trucks filled with ballots had crossed from Iran at different spots along the border.

Yes, now that we're trying to have an election, who ships a truckload of fake, pre-filled ballots across the border? The Iranians!

Yeah, the gall! Don't they know only the CIA is allowed to tamper with elections in other countries with impunity? You'd think Mossadeq would have taught them that...

I watched an awesome little movie today from Iran, concerning ballots...I think you guys'd like it.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0290823/

I watched an awesome little movie today from Iran, concerning ballots...I think you guys'd like it.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0290823/
Have to see if I can get it on Netflix.

Well, there's really three things here.

First off, a stable, democratic Iraq is not in Iran's strategic interests at all. The Kurds will inevitably have a bit say in a democratic Iraq, and Iran has a substanial Kurdish population. And the Iraqi Shiite Clergy actually has a much better claim to leadership of the international Shiite community than the Iranian. Not to mention that a stable Iraq would free up many thousands of US troops...

Secondly, Iran's allies (SCIRI et all) are tipped to do more poorly this election than they did last time around.

Thirdly, if the Iraqi people get to choose their leadership, the Iranian people might start asking 'why cant we too?'

So really the only suprise is, why anyone is suprised at this.

Well, there's really three things here.

First off, a stable, democratic Iraq is not in Iran's strategic interests at all. The Kurds will inevitably have a bit say in a democratic Iraq, and Iran has a substanial Kurdish population. And the Iraqi Shiite Clergy actually has a much better claim to leadership of the international Shiite community than the Iranian.

And who do you think all of these forged ballots were for? George Bush? No.

Yeah, the gall! Don't they know only the CIA is allowed to tamper with elections in other countries with impunity? You'd think Mossadeq would have taught them that...
Yes, as we know from Fass, only the US does the wrong thing...

BTW Fass, apparently the European investigation into the CIA secret prisons has revealed that Germany knew about 400 flights involving shipment of prisoners through its airports - what's the EU to do?

And who do you think all of these forged ballots were for? George Bush? No.

I think I made that pretty clear in my second point. :)

Yes, as we know from Fass, only the US does the wrong thing...

Not only the US does the wrong thing, but it's hypocritical to on the one hand be apologist for when the US does it (let's face it, you basically always are), and then try to lambaste Iran for it.

BTW Fass, apparently the European investigation into the CIA secret prisons has revealed that Germany knew about 400 flights involving shipment of prisoners through its airports - what's the EU to do?

Punish Germany. And any other country that has collaborated with the US in this clearly, under the Convention, illegal scheme. Collaboration with US human rights abuses should not be tolerated in the least.

http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/005943.php

Now this would be quite a story, if true. The Iranians want to see a Shi'ite-dominated government rise up from the ashes of Saddam's Sunni-led military dictatorship, presumably one that can get warped into a theocracy that would bring the Kurds and the Sunni under their heel. The Kurds feel reasonably autonomous now and probably do not have too many worries about this, but the Sunni -- already suspicious of the Shi'ites and their thirst for revenge -- will be ready to believe the worst. This development could undermine the entire election process and put Sunni intransigence back into high gear ... if it was true.

Well, apparently it isn't, according to Reuters:

The head of Iraq's border guards denied police reports on Wednesday that a tanker truck stuffed with thousands of forged ballot papers had been seized crossing into Iraq from Iran before Thursday's elections.

"This is all a lie," said Lieutenant General Ahmed al-Khafaji, the chief of the U.S.-trained force which has responsibility for all Iraq's borders.

"I heard this yesterday and I checked all the border crossings right away. The borders are all closed anyway," he told Reuters. ... "I contacted all the border crossing points and there was no report of any such incident," Khafaji said. ...

Iraq's frontiers are closed for the period of the election.

Oops! I guess Dexter Filkins and the several layers of editors at the Paper Of RecordTM didn't think to check out the well-reported fact that the roads in and out of Iraq on both the Iranian and Syrian borders had been closed. That makes it pretty difficult for eighteen-wheelers to sneak in and out of the country. They tend to get bogged down in the sand and dirt otherwise, making it hard to put the ballots into the polling places. And how exactly were these tankers supposed to get the ballots into the boxes anyway -- pump them into election stations with a hose? The boxes are watched by election judges and a few thousand outside auditors.

It turns out that Filkins' source either works for the Defense ministry's intelligence unit or passed along a rumor that got sourced from there. Stories based on anonymous, single sources can do tremendous damage, especially to a reporter's reputation and that of his newspaper. Perhaps the Gray Lady should think about that before jumping in with both feet to repeat stupid and easily-debunked urban legends such as these.

Yes, now that we're trying to have an election, who ships a truckload of fake, pre-filled ballots across the border? The Iranians!

I think that the Iranians don't really like the idea of a free Iraq on their borders.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/14/international/middleeast/14iraq.html?pagewanted=print

You know, the Iraqi government has already made some new deals with Iran. F'rinstance, Iran will be training their security forces, and trade between the two countries has been opened for the first time since the war between them. The government is already getting pretty cozy with them.

Ah, well. At least, if the ballots story is true, they're well on their way to an American-style democracy.

You know, the Iraqi government has already made some new deals with Iran. F'rinstance, Iran will be training their security forces, and trade between the two countries has been opened for the first time since the war between them. The government is already getting pretty cozy with them.

Ah, well. At least, if the ballots story is true, they're well on their way to an American-style democracy.
Way to read the entire thread.

cripes, not this again

if that's the case, substitute Florida election law circa 2000: if the votes aren't counted and turned in within (i think it was...) 2 weeks, the votes don't count.

hehe