NationStates Jolt Archive

Gosh, so many people on NS General just don't believe in God. But it would seem that at least for the Americans on NS General, they are in a significant minority. I would submit that although it's possible that a lot of people don't regularly go to a church or temple, and most don't regularly belong to an organized religion, most DO believe in God - and for the majority of those who don't believe, most of those aren't sure.

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001659292

A new Gallup survey released today finds that four decades after the "God Is Dead" controversy was first noted, Americans retain a strong belief in a higher power. Some 94% think God exists.

Only 5% feel God "does not exist" -- and even most of them "are not sure" of that. Exactly 1% are certain there is no God.

But how strongly do the believers believe? Nearly 8 in 10, in fact, say they are "convinced" God exists, although Gallup does not ask them why that is.

Four decades? I thought Nietzsche wrote that in the 19th century.

Olara']Four decades? I thought Nietzsche wrote that in the 19th century.
When did Godel kill God?

wow. that's really surprising, and rather encouraging. i'm certain there's a god.....hey, you should add a poll to this to see how those results compare to NS stats. certain there is no god, believe there is no god, believe there is a god, certain there is a god. or something like that. this should be interesting.

Olara']Four decades? I thought Nietzsche wrote that in the 19th century.
I think it refers to this:
http://emoryhistory.emory.edu/enigmas/GodIsDead.htm

More info:
http://www.religion-online.org/showbook.asp?title=1105

When did Godel kill God?
Don't know. I think your OP is probably correct, though. Most people I know believe in God.

I think it refers to this:
http://emoryhistory.emory.edu/enigmas/GodIsDead.htm

More info:
http://www.religion-online.org/showbook.asp?title=1105
Ah. Thanks.

Mehhhh. 70% of Britons identify themselves as Christians, but how many really believe, rather than just carrying on the identity their parents gave them? Same could go for America.

Ok so what's the point?

I never had stats to say I was in the minority as an atheist, but I've never been in a place where that was not the case, so I took it as a given that most people are not atheists.

wow. that's really surprising, and rather encouraging. i'm certain there's a god.....hey, you should add a poll to this to see how those results compare to NS stats. certain there is no god, believe there is no god, believe there is a god, certain there is a god. or something like that. this should be interesting.

Emphasis mine. Yeah, I agree, it's very encouraging. More people should base their lives around unprovable myths--the alternative is being an evil immoral baby-eating atheist. :rolleyes:

Not to sound confrontational, but one wonders how you can be "certain" of something that's unprovable one way or the other. Theist's intuition?

Only 5% feel God "does not exist" -- and even most of them "are not sure" of that. Exactly 1% are certain there is no God

not suprising when you consider many athiests are of the type to logically question the existance of god, and come up with the answer, at least in part, that there's no true way of knowing. hence "not sure"


but thats sad. i think its around 10% of all british people who consider themselves 'religious' or 'of faith' at all... not sure if it quite equates to the same thing, but it gives you an idea.

Emphasis mine. Yeah, I agree, it's very encouraging. More people should base their lives around unprovable myths--the alternative is being an evil immoral baby-eating atheist. :rolleyes:

Not to sound confrontational, but one wonders how you can be "certain" of something that's unprovable one way or the other. Theist's intuition?

You know, it's not very nice to put words in peoples' mouths.

Ok so what's the point?
It's just surprising.

I'm a believer as well, but to hear people on NS talk, very few should actually believe, and atheists should all be absolutely certain that there's no God.

Emphasis mine. Yeah, I agree, it's very encouraging. More people should base their lives around unprovable myths--the alternative is being an evil immoral baby-eating atheist. :rolleyes: Is that Valdyr's intuition coming up with whatever you were saying he thought?
Not to sound confrontational, but one wonders how you can be "certain" of something that's unprovable one way or the other. Theist's intuition? Peru has never really been proven to me.

You know, it's not very nice to put words in peoples' mouths.

I interpreted his post to mean that he was pleasantly surprised that there are so few atheists around. How exactly am I supposed to take that, other than that he thinks believers in a god are somehow superior, morally or otherwise, to those who espouse no faith in a deity?

Mehhhh. 70% of Britons identify themselves as Christians, but how many really believe, rather than just carrying on the identity their parents gave them? Same could go for America.

Very few British people are overtly religous so it can be quite hard to tell. When we had a debate on the existance of God in RS in year 10 the majority of people sided with Atheism, I don't know if the numbers of Atheists in my age group are likely to increase or decrease as we age but frankly I don't think it matters much either way.

Can I assume that you are another resident of our green and pleasant land?:)

Oh yeah, and I'd say that anyone who claims to be certain of the existance or non-existance of God is a bit of an idiot, the concept of God is metaphysical by nature and therefore cannot be proved or disproved.

I interpreted his post to mean that he was pleasantly surprised that there are so few atheists around. How exactly am I supposed to take that, other than that he thinks belief in a god is somehow superior to a lack of it?

Is it possible that he thinks its good that so many people are religious?

Furthermore, is it just possible that he doesn't consider athiests "evil immoral [and] baby-eating"?

Peru has never really been proven to me.

That's because Peru doesn't exist, it was made-up by Argentina for tax reasons.;)

My, what a loony bs :rolleyes:
Where did they do this crap interview? At the funny farm? :rolleyes:

Furthermore, is it just possible that he doesn't consider athiests "evil immoral [and] baby-eating"?

*hides half-eaten baby*

Is it possible that he thinks its good that so many people are religious?

Furthermore, is it just possible that he doesn't consider athiests "evil immoral [and] baby-eating"?

Why is being religious a desirable trait?

And that part of my post was obviously facetious, though a lot of people do seriously believe that you can't be moral without belief in a higher power.

Why is being religious a desirable trait? People tend to prefer it if their values are more... salient in society, don't they? It'd make sense for him to be encouraged.
My, what a loony bs
Where did they do this crap interview? At the funny farm? Roll your eyes any more and they'll get stuck pointing into your skull.

Why is being religious a desirable trait?

And that part of my post was obviously facetious, though a lot of people do seriously believe that you can't be moral without belief in a higher power.

To him, it may be a desirable trait.

And as to "Many people", although it may be true, you have no reason nor right to put him into that category.

Why is being religious a desirable trait?

And that part of my post was obviously facetious, though a lot of people do seriously believe that you can't be moral without belief in a higher power.

Well on average religous people are happier, less stressed and live longer.

My, what a loony bs :rolleyes:
Where did they do this crap interview? At the funny farm? :rolleyes:
It's the reputable Gallup Poll.

Well on average religous people are happier, less stressed and live longer.
I would like to see the stats on that.

As a baby eating atheist. I'd like to say I still wonder how so many people can claim certainty of the knowledge of God. I'm not in fact perfectly athiest. I do believe in the possability of gods or a god but I'm pretty sure most religous ideas are make believe.

I would like to see the stats on that.

So would I but I can't remember where I read them. It might have been in a book on 'the science of christmas' (and no, it wasn't a religous book, it seemed to be fairly impartial).

*hides half-eaten baby*

Hey! Quit hogging that baby!

Though I don't see why being religious means you have to be against abortion...

I would like to see the stats on that.
Greater Longevity

As has been demonstrated by numerous studies, going to church impacts our life in many positive ways. For example, we socialize more, have more friends, have more concern for others, and do more volunteer work -- all of which have been shown to contribute to health and happiness.

Couldn't we just skip going to church and engage in these other health-promoting behaviors to achieve the same results?

R.G. Rogers conducted a study of a 1984 national health survey, with a follow-up in 1991. Rogers' study is interesting because he controlled for many of the variables associated with promotion of good health, including family issues, health variables, demographics, social support and volunteerism. He even controlled for social activities such as attending movies, concerts and the theater. His calculations still showed the stronger impact of attending church on health, over and above mere socializing.

These findings support earlier findings by J.N. Edwards and D.L. Klemmack, who showed that in a random sample of 507 adults over the age of 45, participation in voluntary organizations other than churches was not related to life satisfaction.

Source:Rogers, R.G., "The Effects of Family Composition, Health, and Social Support Linkages on Mortality," Journal of Health and Social Behavior 37 (1996): 326-338.

Klemmack, D.L. and J.N. Edwards, "Correlates of Life Satisfaction: A Re-examination," Journal of Gerontology 28 (1973): 497-502.

Used with permission. ACTA Publications. http://www.actapublications.com

As a baby eating atheist. I'd like to say I still wonder how so many people can claim certainty of the knowledge of God. I'm not in fact perfectly athiest. I do believe in the possability of gods or a god but I'm pretty sure most religous ideas are make believe.

I know for a fact that god exists.

Hey! Quit hogging that baby!

Though I don't see why being religious means you have to be against abortion...

If you're not then the Pope comes round to your house on the Popemobile and bitchslaps you with a wet haddock.

but thats sad. i think its around 10% of all british people who consider themselves 'religious' or 'of faith' at all... not sure if it quite equates to the same thing, but it gives you an idea.

Not true, unless things have massively changed very recently. Surveys suggest the majority of people, around 65%, still believe in a kind of God, though more like 40% believe in a personal God and not just a being which created the world.

However, among my age group it seems the only real Christians are those who are fundamentalist (Although not in the American sense, I have a very left wing friend i'd describe as a fundamentalist christian) about it. I'm friends with quite a few people whose parents are religious but not themselves. Most people who are apathetic tend to side with atheism. Which is a problem, because those who really are committed to their faith tend to join things like "Christian Unions" and segregate themselves a tad, and generally being really pious.

Hopefully this trend in my generation won't continue on to adulthood, or we'll have a vast majority of the country who is atheist and like 10% who are religious, but very much so. Its better for it to stay as it is - with many believing but few putting much effort into it.

As a baby eating atheist. I'd like to say I still wonder how so many people can claim certainty of the knowledge of God. I'm not in fact perfectly athiest. I do believe in the possability of gods or a god but I'm pretty sure most religuas ideas are make believe.
The certainty doesn't come from proof, it comes from faith.

Faith is something that an atheist, by definition, cannot have. Faith is by definition, make believe.

You might consider that perhaps a lot of people who aren't too religious are trying to hedge their bet. They might think that belief in God is relatively harmless, and if he turns out to really exist, and all the stories are true, it's good. And if he turns out not to exist, well, they believed in Santa and the Easter Bunny, too.

I know for a fact that god exists.

But surely only God (if he exists) is infallible. You and I are only human and cannot claim to be infallible.

Not true, unless things have massively changed very recently. Surveys suggest the majority of people, around 65%, still believe in a kind of God, though more like 40% believe in a personal God and not just a being which created the world.

However, among my age group it seems the only real Christians are those who are fundamentalist (Although not in the American sense, I have a very left wing friend i'd describe as a fundamentalist christian) about it. I'm friends with quite a few people whose parents are religious but not themselves. Most people who are apathetic tend to side with atheism. Which is a problem, because those who really are committed to their faith tend to join things like "Christian Unions" and segregate themselves a tad, and generally being really pious.

Hopefully this trend in my generation won't continue on to adulthood, or we'll have a vast majority of the country who is atheist and like 10% who are religious, but very much so. Its better for it to stay as it is - with many believing but few putting much effort into it.

OOI what do you class as fundamentalism if you don't mean it in the American sense of the word? I've only ever met one Creationist in the UK and that was on this forum.

But surely only God (if he exists) is infallible. You and I are only human and cannot claim to be infallible.

This is one of the few things I know to be infallible.

This is one of the few things I know to be infallible.

But your belief that that belief is infallible could be fallible.

(if this is annoying you just say and I'll stop, it's just a point I've been pondering for a while about the idea of humans claiming to know anything to be guaranteed fact)

My observation of religion suggests to me that religion offers more hopelesness not more hope.

But your belief that that belief is infallible could be fallible.

(if this is annoying you just say and I'll stop, it's just a point I've been pondering for a while about the idea of humans claiming to know anything to be guaranteed fact)

I do not believe that my belief in belief is fallible.

My observation of religion suggests to me that religion offers more hopelesness not more hope.

Would you like to elaborate?

My observation of religion suggests to me that religion offers more hopelesness not more hope. Which religion? You might have left out observing the Tibetan monasteries on the tops of mountains.

I do not believe that my belief in belief is fallible.

Meh, fair enough.

Meh, fair enough.

I wonder how long it's gunna take for people to jump all over my ass...

Emphasis mine. Yeah, I agree, it's very encouraging. More people should base their lives around unprovable myths--the alternative is being an evil immoral baby-eating atheist. :rolleyes:

Not to sound confrontational, but one wonders how you can be "certain" of something that's unprovable one way or the other. Theist's intuition?

Of course, the whole question if fraught with difficulties, like whether there is any sort of consensus among the 94% regarding the meanings of words like "believe" "god" "is" and "certain."

The mystically-inclined among us (do I see that hand?) would have no objection to something like "theist's intuition", which is probably more akin to "faith" than would be something as changeable as "belief."

by a firm believer in the power of quotation-marks

Of course, the whole question if fraught with difficulties, like whether there is any sort of consensus among the 94% regarding the meanings of words like "believe" "god" "is" and "certain."

The mystically-inclined among us (do I see that hand?) would have no objection to something like "theist's intuition", which is probably more akin to "faith" than would be something as changeable as "belief."

by a firm believer in the power of quotation-marks


Oh, so you graduated from the Clinton School of "Is Is"?

I wonder how long it's gunna take for people to jump all over my ass...

*sidles nonchalently away from the South Island's ass*

What are looking at me like that for?

Oh, so you graduated from the Clinton School of "Is Is"?

Yep, I keep the diploma in my closet, right next to the blue dress.

Of course, the whole question if fraught with difficulties, like whether there is any sort of consensus among the 94% regarding the meanings of words like "believe" "god" "is" and "certain."

The mystically-inclined among us (do I see that hand?) would have no objection to something like "theist's intuition", which is probably more akin to "faith" than would be something as changeable as "belief."

by a firm believer in the power of quotation-marks


Congratulations, you didn't use any gun smilies in your first post.

Welcome to the forum.:)

Of course, the whole question if fraught with difficulties, like whether there is any sort of consensus among the 94% regarding the meanings of words like "believe" "god" "is" and "certain."

The mystically-inclined among us (do I see that hand?) would have no objection to something like "theist's intuition", which is probably more akin to "faith" than would be something as changeable as "belief."

by a firm believer in the power of quotation-marks


This is why I sometimes have trouble putting stock in opinion polls. I don't think the opinions of 100% of Americans are so cut-and-dry that they can be adequately represented by a four- or five-choice poll.

Faith is something that an atheist, by definition, cannot have. Faith is by definition, make believe.
Faith is something we all have. Faith in what is another matter.

Congratulations, you didn't use any gun smilies in your first post.

Welcome to the forum.:)
Yay!
*cheers*

People tend to prefer it if their values are more... salient in society, don't they? It'd make sense for him to be encouraged.
Roll your eyes any more and they'll get stuck pointing into your skull.
Really? *tries* :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Doesn't work :p

Oh, and do you have some left-overs of that baby? It looks very tasty!

Oh, and do you have some left-overs of that baby? It looks very tasty! Sorry, my demographic group doesn't do baby-eating, we're *checks list* responsible for all the ills of mankind, divisions, strife, wars, and we hate intellect.

while that 5% is surprisingly low the more distressing part is how little this "belief in god" influences the way the vast majority behave. it seems they believe but do nothing about this belief.

i dont suppose the poll asked

when was the last time you prayed ?
when was the last time you went to "church"?
when was the last time you gave money to support the representatives of your faith?
when was the last time you took "god" into consideration in making any decision however small?

see now THIS is more what i would expect out of an american survey (although i still find the number of agnostics suprisingly low)

These are some of the results of a survey by Harris Interactive® based on a nationwide sample of 2,306 adults surveyed online between September 16 and 23, 2003.
...
This survey found that 79% of Americans believe there is a God, and that 66% are absolutely certain this is true. Only 9% do not believe in God, while a further 12% are not sure.

While most people (55%) attend a religious service a few times a year or more often, only a minority of the public (36%) attends a religious service once a month or more often, with about a quarter (26%) attending every week.


http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=408

Emphasis mine. Yeah, I agree, it's very encouraging. More people should base their lives around unprovable myths--the alternative is being an evil immoral baby-eating atheist. :rolleyes:
What's your problem? As long as they're not harming anyone else why hurl such insults at them? If they want religion to help them live happier lives, just let them.

It's just surprising.

I'm a believer as well, but to hear people on NS talk, very few should actually
believe, and atheists should all be absolutely certain that there's no God.
That's because the internet is frequented by mostly young men, who are the most atheistic demographic.

Though I don't see why being religious means you have to be against abortion...
What has abortion got to do with baby-eating?

OOI what do you class as fundamentalism if you don't mean it in the American sense of the word? I've only ever met one Creationist in the UK and that was on this forum.
A fundamentalist is a fundamentalist no matter what country you live in. There is no "American sense of the word".

Sorry, my demographic group doesn't do baby-eating, we're *checks list* responsible for all the ills of mankind, divisions, strife, wars, and we hate intellect.

Don't forget you're also responsible for plague, famine, natural disasters and stuff that gets lost down the backs of sofas.

*goes back to eating babies while performing abortions, waging war on Christmas, corrupting the young and mugging grannies*

A fundamentalist is a fundamentalist no matter what country you live in. There is no "American sense of the word".

However, among my age group it seems the only real Christians are those who are fundamentalist (Although not in the American sense, I have a very left wing friend i'd describe as a fundamentalist christian) about it. I'm friends with quite a few people whose parents are religious but not themselves. Most people who are apathetic tend to side with atheism. Which is a problem, because those who really are committed to their faith tend to join things like "Christian Unions" and segregate themselves a tad, and generally being really pious.

I was just enquiring as to what he/she meant.

It's just surprising.

I'm a believer as well, but to hear people on NS talk, very few should actually believe, and atheists should all be absolutely certain that there's no God.

I don't believe there is a god and i'm certain of that.
I've stated my reasoning in other threads before, but oh well, i feel like spamming today:

What of the following statements is the most logical/simple:

A being created the universe
The universe always existed in some form

Said supreme being always existed
The material in the universe always existed in some form or another

Said supreme being is intelligent and capable of creating lifeforms
Chemical & electrical interaction between source material created lifeforms

Oh yeah, and I'd say that anyone who claims to be certain of the existance or non-existance of God is a bit of an idiot, the concept of God is metaphysical by nature and therefore cannot be proved or disproved.

I disagree, because i view the idea of a god to be purely a human construct to explain what we can't explain with our current & limited knowledge

Well on average religous people are happier, less stressed and live longer.

I'd love to see you prove that one :rolleyes:

So would I but I can't remember where I read them. It might have been in a book on 'the science of christmas' (and no, it wasn't a religous book, it seemed to be fairly impartial).

The idea that religious people have less stress, live longer & are happier is complete & utter noncence. You don't need faith to live without stress, you don't need to believe you're going to heaven to be happy, and you certainly don't need god to live longer.

Don't look to NS for a random slice of the general populace.
The real world isn't full of communists and libertarians, either.
If it were, things would be so much more interesting.

Greater Longevity

<snip>



I call bs, tripe, noncense, bollocks, ...

I know for a fact that god exists.

You know for a fact? What? Did he jump up & slapped you in the face with a bible? :p

while that 5% is surprisingly low the more distressing part is how little this "belief in god" influences the way the vast majority behave. it seems they believe but do nothing about this belief.

i dont suppose the poll asked

when was the last time you prayed ?

I never prayed out of my free will, however, as a child, i was forced by peer pressure to join in on prayer.

when was the last time you went to "church"?

The only occasions i enter a church are:
1: It's raining & i need shelture (when the bars are closed or i'm out of money)
2: Funeral & i feel obliged to be there (as support for the ones left behind)
3: Weddings

when was the last time you gave money to support the representatives of your faith?

I would never, *EVER* give money to a representative of a religion, and i wish our government didn't do that neighter, let them *EARN* their money like the rest of us poor sods

when was the last time you took "god" into consideration in making any decision however small?

I can't honestly say if i *ever* did that

What's your problem? As long as they're not harming anyone else why hurl such insults at them? If they want religion to help them live happier lives, just let them.

It's only a problem when they try to force it down everyone's piehole, eg, Jehova's witnesses, and fundies (of all colors)

That's because the internet is frequented by mostly young men, who are the most atheistic demographic.

Hurray for young people :p

What has abortion got to do with baby-eating?

There isn't as much meat to an embryo as there is to a fully developed baby...
*hmmm.... babies*

Don't forget you're also responsible for plague, famine, natural disasters and stuff that gets lost down the backs of sofas.

*goes back to eating babies while performing abortions, waging war on Christmas, corrupting the young and mugging grannies*

You know what the most freakingly annoying thing is about christmas? The freaking constant repetition of the same old stupid boring christmas carols *ARRRGH!*

There should be a law against those :sniper: :mp5:

Gosh, so many people on NS General just don't believe in God. But it would seem that at least for the Americans on NS General, they are in a significant minority. I would submit that although it's possible that a lot of people don't regularly go to a church or temple, and most don't regularly belong to an organized religion, most DO believe in God - and for the majority of those who don't believe, most of those aren't sure.

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001659292

Well I dont know about anyone else but thats pretty much as expected to me. NS is hardly representative of anywhere in particular, let alone America. Thats one of the reasons why i like it.

Truth is not democratic. Constitutional secularism is subject to no vote but that of amendment.

Well on average religous people are happier, less stressed and live longer.

You could replace religious person with child and make the same point. Chances are a child is happier less stressed and has more time left to live than me but should we all stop acting like adults and act like children? Im sure that would be good for society.


You could substitute retarded for religious and still be just as valid (except for the live longer part).

Does that mean that everyone should strive to be retarded? Then everyone would have much less stress and given ice cream or candy everyone would be happy too.

Whats really ironic is that given how many very religious people there are makes me not want to live longer so I can finally get away from certain peoples incessant preaching.

why the fuck should i care that i'm in a minority as far as america is concerned?

most people round me are at least uncertain, and a large portion are sure...there is no god.

damnyankee fundies...;) ;) ;)

i love y'all, but why the hell should i agree with y'all?

live in a civilised country where 80% of 'believers' don't go to church. more muslims go to mosque regularly than anglicans go to church in the uk...we've had generations to work on the anglicans, so give us time and the muslims'll decline as well:) :) :)

Theoretically(sp), not a lot of people really believe in god. More so, they just say they do. Reason being, if you truely believed in a god, and the entire, "Believe in me or you are damned to hell," then everybody would be in a big tizzy about which religion to be in. People would devote every second of their life to serving god and following all of his rules. People would lose sleep, because they want to do whats right. But what is right if they don't know it?

Many people say they believe in god, but only very few actually follow it through.

I don't believe in god. I have no faith for god. But i do question his exsistence out of natural human curiosity. I fall into the 5% part where i'm quite sure that isn't a god but not fully sure. I've questioned life itself ever since i was around 10. thankfully now that i'm 13 and have had 3 more years of experience with life i still question life but in a more mature manor. I myself will believe god when there's proof he exists. Since there is (a) no proof of god and (b) the idea of proof of god reltively undermines the entire basis of faith. Religions based on itself so it has the possibility to fall.

You could replace religious person with child and make the same point. Chances are a child is happier less stressed and has more time left to live than me but should we all stop acting like adults and act like children? Im sure that would be good for society.


You could substitute retarded for religious and still be just as valid (except for the live longer part).

Does that mean that everyone should strive to be retarded? Then everyone would have much less stress and given ice cream or candy everyone would be happy too.

Whats really ironic is that given how many very religious people there are makes me not want to live longer so I can finally get away from certain peoples incessant preaching.

Finally a voice of reason!!! i've been waiting for someone like you to post. Thank you for letting me know i'm not alone in my ideals.

Theoretically(sp), not a lot of people really believe in god. More so, they just say they do. Reason being, if you truely believed in a god, and the entire, "Believe in me or you are damned to hell," then everybody would be in a big tizzy about which religion to be in. People would devote every second of their life to serving god and following all of his rules. People would lose sleep, because they want to do whats right. But what is right if they don't know it?

Many people say they believe in god, but only very few actually follow it through.

Oh, have you read "God's Debris?"

-snip-

You're calling Albert Einstein a retard?

*sigh* Millitant atheists, the only thing that can make me argue for theism.:rolleyes:

You're calling Albert Einstein a retard?

*sigh* Millitant atheists, the only thing that can make me argue for theism.:rolleyes:

hmmm I reread what I posted and it had no mention of Albert Einstein at all. I am not a militant atheist either, if I were to qualify my religion it would be pagan (which Im assuming to you maens something bad if you are a fundie)

I was merely taking offence that you made religion out to be a good thing because it causes people to have less stress and live longer. Life is stress and I was pointing out two rediculous and inflammatory possibilities where your original outcome was still valid yet the cause wouldnt be desirable.

And as far as Einstein was concerned from my readings most of his quotes that deal with religion tend to be of the type of an explanation of one of his ideas to a nonscientific person. The most famous would be "God doesnt play dice" You took this that he has a belief in god, where I take it as he is explaining quantum mechanics and the predictability that is inherent in his theory. This is very hard to explain to someone with no science background yet the phrase sums it up nicely and in their frame of mind. Does it mean that he believed in a god, there is no proof either way so anything is mere speculation.

Of course there are more people that believe in God than don't. One only needs to look to such examples of faith as, I dunno... Israel and Iran.

Would you like to elaborate?

Ok so my observation is a little narrow mostly focused on Fundie Christianity. That is why I said more hopelessness than hope.

hmmm I reread what I posted and it had no mention of Albert Einstein at all. I am not a militant atheist either, if I were to qualify my religion it would be pagan (which Im assuming to you maens something bad if you are a fundie)

I was merely taking offence that you made religion out to be a good thing because it causes people to have less stress and live longer. Life is stress and I was pointing out two rediculous and inflammatory possibilities where your original outcome was still valid yet the cause wouldnt be desirable.

And as far as Einstein was concerned from my readings most of his quotes that deal with religion tend to be of the type of an explanation of one of his ideas to a nonscientific person. The most famous would be "God doesnt play dice" You took this that he has a belief in god, where I take it as he is explaining quantum mechanics and the predictability that is inherent in his theory. This is very hard to explain to someone with no science background yet the phrase sums it up nicely and in their frame of mind. Does it mean that he believed in a god, there is no proof either way so anything is mere speculation.

You compared religous people to retards which I took to be millitant atheism, if I jumped to conclusions then I apologise. My example of Albert Einstein was simply that he was religous and could not be called a moron by any stretch of the imagination.

I see what you're saying now, it could be argued that most mainstream religons have few if any drawbacks and do have some advantages, the point about a longer lifetime still stands for example. As an atheist I would never argue that people should try to become religous, I was just responding to a poster who asked why religion should be considered to be a positive trait.

Ok so my observation is a little narrow mostly focused on Fundie Christianity. That is why I said more hopelessness than hope.

Meh, fair enough.

Is that Valdyr's intuition coming up with whatever you were saying he thought?
Peru has never really been proven to me.

She says, "I've never seen your brain but I still believe you have one.":headbang:

My view on the idea that 95% believe in God. I think it comes down to Pascals wager, worst case senario is not believing in God and going to hell so best to claim to believe in God even if you don't or don't care just to be safe.

As it goes using fear "hell" as a reason to believe in God seems very unchristian to me and goes against their concept of God. But ah well. I'm athesist myself.

I disagree, because i view the idea of a god to be purely a human construct to explain what we can't explain with our current & limited knowledge

The problem with a certain disbelief in God is that one first needs to decide exactly what sort of god it is in which one disbelieves. It's easy to disbelieve in, say, an anthropomorphic petty tyrant (even a benevolent one), for example; but that's not where many thoughtful theists are anyway. You seem to have chosen to disbelieve in a god whose function is to explain what is beyond the frontiers of (scientific?) knowledge. That's fine, but you may not yet be treading on my turf.

As it goes using fear "hell" as a reason to believe in God seems very unchristian to me and goes against their concept of God. But ah well. I'm athesist myself.

One reason why people who don't believe in god arn't afraid of hell is becuase they don't believe it dosn't exist. I'm not aethiest nor christian nor any other religion i'm no religion at all. I don't want to be associated with aethiests nor christians ect.

I for one arn't afraid of hell i mean whats so bad about jsut dieing and thats it? What's everyones problem with that idea?

Gosh, so many people on NS General just don't believe in God. But it would seem that at least for the Americans on NS General, they are in a significant minority. I would submit that although it's possible that a lot of people don't regularly go to a church or temple, and most don't regularly belong to an organized religion, most DO believe in God - and for the majority of those who don't believe, most of those aren't sure.

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001659292

So?

And which God?

So?

And which God?
Yeah. That's what popped into my head the second I read the thread title. That, and the question "should I be shocked?" Every atheist knows that he or she is in the great minority in the US--they get reminded of it every freaking day.

Personally, I'm quite conflicted. I grew up believing in God, and I can't let go of a need for spirituality, and a feeling that there is some kind of higher power. Whether that higher power is a deity, nature, or the universe, well, don't ask me. I'm not a member of any organized religion, although if pressed, I guess I would say I were a "sort-of nondenominational Christian". The Canadian United Church is probably closest for me.

What I DO hate though, are athiests who diss people because they are religious. AND religious people who diss athiests as immoral. Oh, and lest I forget - religious people who diss people with other faiths.

I'll let Christians diss Satanists though. It really is a slap in the face to say: "I believe in God and Christianity, but I like the dark side better."

You know what the most freakingly annoying thing is about christmas? The freaking constant repetition of the same old stupid boring christmas carols *ARRRGH!*

There should be a law against those :sniper: :mp5:They're just songs.

I, for one, get tired of songs glorifying violence and objectifying women. Doesn't stop certain radio DJs from constantly playing them though.

Some 94% think God exists.
That just means 94% of the population are unenlightened morons, foolishly clinging to the outdated, superstitious mythologies of ancient, primitive cultures.

Truth is not determined by popular opinion. There was a time when most people thought the world was flat. They were wrong despite their majority.

I don't question anyone's right to believe in fairy tales, but I do think they're silly.

You compared religous people to retards which I took to be millitant atheism, if I jumped to conclusions then I apologise. My example of Albert Einstein was simply that he was religous and could not be called a moron by any stretch of the imagination.

I see what you're saying now, it could be argued that most mainstream religons have few if any drawbacks and do have some advantages, the point about a longer lifetime still stands for example. As an atheist I would never argue that people should try to become religous, I was just responding to a poster who asked why religion should be considered to be a positive trait.

I'm still calling bs on that post of yours that religious people live longer

The problem with a certain disbelief in God is that one first needs to decide exactly what sort of god it is in which one disbelieves. It's easy to disbelieve in, say, an anthropomorphic petty tyrant (even a benevolent one), for example; but that's not where many thoughtful theists are anyway. You seem to have chosen to disbelieve in a god whose function is to explain what is beyond the frontiers of (scientific?) knowledge. That's fine, but you may not yet be treading on my turf.

I disbelieve in *any form of devinity*, be it God, Allah, Odin, or god knows what (pun intended). Unless your god is of a form i have yet to comtemplate?

They're just songs.

I, for one, get tired of songs glorifying violence and objectifying women. Doesn't stop certain radio DJs from constantly playing them though.

Imagine listening to 1 cd all day long, every day of december, every year.
Thats how it feels, it's bad enough no radiostation in Belgium plays my favourite genre, but to have to listen to the same crap every hour is asking abit too much.

Sadly my collegue's don't like metal & rock neighter so the radio still is the lesser of all evil (all evil would be silence... can't have that now can we? ;) )

Imagine listening to 1 cd all day long, every day of december, every year.
Thats how it feels, it's bad enough no radiostation in Belgium plays my favourite genre, but to have to listen to the same crap every hour is asking abit too much.

Sadly my collegue's don't like metal & rock neighter so the radio still is the lesser of all evil (all evil would be silence... can't have that now can we? ;) )Sounds like something you need to work out with your co-workers. Like picking another radio station.

If radio stations were convinced that their audiences didn't want Christmas carols, they wouldn't play them. The rock station I listen to has yet to play a single carol, although they probably will play some on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day.

Sounds like something you need to work out with your co-workers. Like picking another radio station.

If radio stations were convinced that their audiences didn't want Christmas carols, they wouldn't play them. The rock station I listen to has yet to play a single carol, although they probably will play some on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day.

You are assuming Belgium has any good radio stations... we don't :p

Personally, I'm quite conflicted. I grew up believing in God, and I can't let go of a need for spirituality, and a feeling that there is some kind of higher power. Whether that higher power is a deity, nature, or the universe, well, don't ask me. I'm not a member of any organized religion, although if pressed, I guess I would say I were a "sort-of nondenominational Christian". The Canadian United Church is probably closest for me.

What I DO hate though, are athiests who diss people because they are religious. AND religious people who diss athiests as immoral. Oh, and lest I forget - religious people who diss people with other faiths.

I'll let Christians diss Satanists though. It really is a slap in the face to say: "I believe in God and Christianity, but I like the dark side better."

I thought satianists thought that the devil is better because god tried to keep people ignorant rather then allow them to eat from the tree that made you smart.

Good and Evil really doesn't exist its all about perception god can be percieved as ruthless and unkind in many passages of the bible even though we associate those characteristics as immoral.

I'll let Christians diss Satanists though. It really is a slap in the face to say: "I believe in God and Christianity, but I like the dark side better."
Thus satanists are allowed to diss christians? ;)
Seriously, Satanism usually isnt the opposite of christianity. The word encompasses a whole slew of very different religions who are not a mirror of christianity.

Thus satanists are allowed to diss christians? ;)
Seriously, Satanism usually isnt the opposite of christianity. The word encompasses a whole slew of very different religions who are not a mirror of christianity.How so? As far as I know, the concept of "satan" only exists in the Judeo-Christian belief system.

I thought satianists thought that the devil is better because god tried to keep people ignorant rather then allow them to eat from the tree that made you smart.

Good and Evil really doesn't exist its all about perception god can be percieved as ruthless and unkind in many passages of the bible even though we associate those characteristics as immoral.

Off topic:
Satanism has never made any sense to me at all as to believe in and worship Satan is to accept there is God and in doing so you are on the side that 1) you know is going to lose, and 2) results in you suffering for all eternity.

On topic:
So, if I lived in America I would be in the minority? Aren't I special.
I think I'm going to go round my friends and ask them what there opinions are on God. I've never asked before, mostly because I don't care that much, but it might be interesting. I'm betting that most will come back with an answer that is something along the lines of: "I don't know, I think there's probably something, blah blah blah, indecision indecision indecision, never really thought about it."

Can 94% of Americans be wrong?

Of course they can.

As much as the "light" side meandered from the original semitic religion, the "dark" side did as well. The modern satanism of Crowley and laVey is a sort of religious embroidered egoism, but not actively working against God, which is the original purpose of the Devil, the eternal enemy. Its returning to the roots of Satan, who actually is a conglomerate of several nature deities, Baal the most prominent among them, most of which are forgotten. The horned god is visible in the Satan figure, as well as Pan, but as the early church dragged every deity into it which couldnt be turned into a saint, in order to draw distinctive lines, one could say that Satan is a conglomerate of hordes of spirits and gods. The devil picture we have now is from the gothic area, a period were devil worship was quite en vogue and the orginal black masses were invented, which consisted of paraphrasing and perverting the normal mass. Thats the image most penetrated today, but it actually is quite outdated. People involved in doing this today are mainly teenagers who do it for a thrill and shocking their environment.

I disbelieve in *any form of devinity*, be it God, Allah, Odin, or god knows what (pun intended). Unless your god is of a form i have yet to comtemplate?
There is, of course, the Systemic God. That God is a consciousness that arose through evolution and within which other life forms act as cells. That is, if you personify the universe as a human (as almost every religion does anyway), God is the sense of self that emerges from the "Brain Cells" - the sentient and cognitive persons - of its body interacting with the other matter and cells that comprise it.

It is not important if you believe in God....

What is important, is if God believes in you!

Satanism has never made any sense to me at all as to believe in and worship Satan is to accept there is God and in doing so you are on the side that 1) you know is going to lose, and 2) results in you suffering for all eternity.
The thing is, they don't think they're going to lose. And they could be right in that one. Satan's Paul of Tarsus play was the perfect response to God's Christ.
</semi-snipe>

How so? As far as I know, the concept of "satan" only exists in the Judeo-Christian belief system.


In name, maybe.. But as for beliefs - it comes heavily from Egypt. Look at Crowley and his beliefs. Set and Bast are considered dieties (so called). The Goat of Mendes (Baphomet) come from Egypt also - Mendez is another spelling of Mendes, a city of ancient Egypt.

Note - I am a Christian, and when I say that, I am not saying that I just go to church. I am a true believer in God (The God of the Bible) and His Son Jesus Christ.

Lastly, I am not some dim-wit. I consider myself highly educated. I have several BA's (education, foreign language, psychology, computer science, and lastly Theology). I have several technical cert's also (A+, CCNA, and MCP)

It is not important if you believe in God....

What is important, is if God believes in you!
Look, hollow phrases are not going to endear you to people and certainly harm the credibility of fellows of your conviction. So, please, abstain from posting such drivel in the name of an more educated discussion.

Having one or many degrees is not necessarily a plus or minus. Now wait a second... where did God send his kid to get an education... unto the people.

Look, hollow phrases are not going to endear you to people and certainly harm the credibility of fellows of your conviction. So, please, abstain from posting such drivel in the name of an more educated discussion.


This coming from someone who's name is Jester ROFLOL

The role of a jester fulfilled, serving criticism with a laugh.

Off topic:
Satanism has never made any sense to me at all as to believe in and worship Satan is to accept there is God and in doing so you are on the side that 1) you know is going to lose, and 2) results in you suffering for all eternity. Satanists don't believe in Satan per se (and have an irritating habit of complaining when people do think they worship Satan... honestly, call yourself a Satanist, what do you expect...)
http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/cosinfopack.pdf

That's the "official" CoS, which is a tad of a joke mostly - at least, from what I've heard of its founder's sayings.

Satanists don't believe in Satan per se (and have an irritating habit of complaining when people do think they worship Satan... honestly, call yourself a Satanist, what do you expect...)
http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/cosinfopack.pdf

That's the "official" CoS, which is a tad of a joke mostly - at least, from what I've heard of its founder's sayings.see that's what confuses me. If your ideas of satan are not based on Judeo-Christian beliefs, and aren't even really based on anything known as 'satan', why call it 'satanism', unless it's just to p.o. Jews and Christians? It seems to me that the very name is a diss.

see that's what confuses me. If your ideas of satan are not based on Judeo-Christian beliefs, and aren't even really based on anything known as 'satan', why call it 'satanism', unless it's just to p.o. Jews and Christians? It seems to me that the very name is a diss.
Read my post? The origins of Satan are mostly older than christianity.

see that's what confuses me. If your ideas of satan are not based on Judeo-Christian beliefs, and aren't even really based on anything known as 'satan', why call it 'satanism', unless it's just to p.o. Jews and Christians? It seems to me that the very name is a diss.I always thought they used Satan as a symbol because of the rebellion & free thinking that figure represents. Just like a quite a few anarchists did before them.

I always thought they used Satan as a symbol because of the rebellion & free thinking that figure represents. Just like a quite a few anarchists did before them.
People use Satan because he originated sin. Not rebeliion and free thinking. Considering those are two completley different things. Satan=Evil.
end of story.

Read my post? The origins of Satan are mostly older than christianity.So why do they use the term "satan" then, and not an older term?

I think people actually think that believe in a god automatically means the christian god.:rolleyes: Most people who say that believe in a god in general, more often than not NOT the 100% christian god.

I'm still calling bs on that post of yours that religious people live longer

I can't remember where I read it but I think someone elso posted supporting evidence for it earlier in the thread.

Its not religion people... Optimists live longer, because being depressed leads to health problems which shorten your lifespan. Most religious people have a big invisible buddy to fall back on. >=P

If it weren't for Satan though, none of us would have ever been born, and Adam and Eve would still be retarded.;)

Of course there are more people that believe in God than don't. One only needs to look to such examples of faith as, I dunno... Israel and Iran.

Actually Israel is one of the countries with the highest numbers of selfdescribed atheists or agnostics (depending on the source it's about 25% of the population). Only the countries on the territory of the former Soviet Union and East Germany have higher numbers (East Germany has about 80% of atheists and agnostics).

And about the higher happiness, less stress and longer life for religious people: Giving in to peer pressure in most cases reduces stress, thus increases happiness and lowers health risks. People being openly non religious in a world that describes itself as mostly religious are surely put under a certain stress.

I disbelieve in *any form of devinity*, be it God, Allah, Odin, or god knows what (pun intended). Unless your god is of a form i have yet to comtemplate?
Bet on it. Strictly speaking, to assign "form" of any kind to divinity would already be an unhelpful reduction; but that way lies what we call a whole 'nother discussion.

I'm a believer:D

See fallacious appeal to popularity (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-popularity.html).

See also overgeneralization -- assuming each pollee believes in the same "god."

Actually Israel is one of the countries with the highest numbers of selfdescribed atheists or agnostics (depending on the source it's about 25% of the population).

Yeah, but it's still a Jewish State.


And about the higher happiness, less stress and longer life for religious people:

Unless you're one of the religious people flying planes into buildings or engaging in bloody crusades and cultural wars and stuff. Or one of the religious people sitting in the building/village/town/city/nation...

Seems many are misinformed on what Satanism really is, though it may not be their fault, mostly the rebellious teenagers call themselves "Satanists" to get attention. There's a difference between Satanism and Devil-worship. Most have likely never heard from a real one who knew what they meant.



"theres quite a few different points of view on satanism, and people who follow different ways. me personally my first introduction to it was from laveys satanic bible. i wasnt a particular fan of it then. what he wrote in there was a lot of stuff i agreed on, but he did lash out at times which i felt was uncalled for: "#9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!" the 9th satanic statement particularly. though there is truth to it, i personally felt it was an uneeded lashing out. then i went on to find out he plagiarized a lot of what he wrote in it, and he also beat his wife and animals regularyl(according to his daughter), which went against what he was supposed to believe in. but then when i came back from being a dirty carnie(which is where i was introduced to the satanic bible) i researched some more and found other stuff about it, and different ways people went about it. the main idea i have about it is seeing myself as my own god. as in what i do is out of my will. its not Gods(or any other beings) will what i do. i create whats good and whats bad in my life, and acknowledge that i do need both to keep a balance, nothing will exist without its opposite. the only true high power i acknowledge is nature, as far as im concerned it is the only creator of all life. theres a ot more to it, thats just the very basics. "

In some cases similar to Crhistianity, most notably:
theres quite a few different points of view on <insert Satanism or Christianity here>


P.S. And the concept of Satan predates Christianity


P.P.S. http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/16201167/

"Stupidity is the cardinal "sin" of Satanism, the sin which is believed to cause all other Human evil"

Okay, Satanism definetly has some good points now. I hate stupid people...detriment to society.

People use Satan because he originated sin. Not rebeliion and free thinking. Considering those are two completley different things. Satan=Evil.
end of story.Not true at all. Reading books other than the Bible isn't forbidden you know ;)
Here's a few choice words by Michael Bakunin.He [God] expressly forbade them from touching the fruit of the tree of knowledge. He wished, therefore, that man, destitute of all understanding of himself, should remain an eternal beast, ever on all-fours before the eternal God, his creator and his master. But here steps in Satan, the eternal rebel, the first freethinker and the emancipator of worlds. He makes man ashamed of his bestial ignorance and obedience; he emancipates him, stamps upon his brow the seal of liberty and humanity, in urging him to disobey and eat of the fruit of knowledge.

So why do they use the term "satan" then, and not an older term?
Because the original religions have all but disappeared. Its like modern Wicca or Neo-Paganism. A lot of the stuff today is made up and not neccessarily akin to the original worship.

There is, of course, the Systemic God. That God is a consciousness that arose through evolution and within which other life forms act as cells. That is, if you personify the universe as a human (as almost every religion does anyway), God is the sense of self that emerges from the "Brain Cells" - the sentient and cognitive persons - of its body interacting with the other matter and cells that comprise it.

*Head exploded*
Where is logic in that?!

People use Satan because he originated sin. Not rebeliion and free thinking. Considering those are two completley different things. Satan=Evil.
end of story.

Evil & good are moral concepts, thus also human concepts, saying satan is evil is therefor silly, since at one time sacrifice & slavery was also considered good

I can't remember where I read it but I think someone elso posted supporting evidence for it earlier in the thread.

And i still don't believe it :p

Its not religion people... Optimists live longer, because being depressed leads to health problems which shorten your lifespan. Most religious people have a big invisible buddy to fall back on. >=P

If it weren't for Satan though, none of us would have ever been born, and Adam and Eve would still be retarded.;)

I agree that it's optimism that has a positve effect on life expectations, not religion as it is

*Head exploded*
Where is logic in that?!
It's pretty simple. Biological emergence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergence#Emergent_structures_in_nature) is an accepted, if not quite understood, explanation for behaviour in natural philosophy. To quote from the wiki article:
Many speculate that consciousness and life itself are emergent properties of a network of many interacting neurons and complex molecules, respectively.
This sort of structure works from the bottom up. Many simple things build one complex thing; a network of cells that in turn leads to the formation of cognitive beings. But who's to say humans are at the top? After all, we experience pack behaviour and societal pressures.

The Systemic God is simply the supposition that there is a top to this evolutionary Pyramid; a system with an emergent "self" of its own. A God that is built from the bottom up rather than a universe that is built from the top down.

It's pretty simple. Biological emergence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergence#Emergent_structures_in_nature) is an accepted, if not quite understood, explanation for behaviour in natural philosophy. To quote from the wiki article:

This sort of structure works from the bottom up. Many simple things build one complex thing; a network of cells that in turn leads to the formation of cognitive beings. But who's to say humans are at the top? After all, we experience pack behaviour and societal pressures.

The Systemic God is simply the supposition that there is a top to this evolutionary Pyramid; a system with an emergent "self" of its own. A God that is built from the bottom up rather than a universe that is built from the top down.

How do you explain our tendency to slaughter eachother then? Wouldn't that be the larger entity (in this case, the systemic god) his/her/it's body distroying itself? Or atleast mutilating itself

How do you explain our tendency to slaughter eachother then? Wouldn't that be the larger entity (in this case, the systemic god) his/her/it's body distroying itself? Or atleast mutilating itself
Why not? Cancer is a pretty common human disability; parts of our bodies mutate and, seeking to fulfil their own needs and wants at the expense of the rest of us, start to take over and kill their fellow cells. I reckon evil in the world is just that. Humans are a mutation from nature. Most of us are benign, and are quite content to simply live a symbiotic coexistence with the system, but there is that propensity towards malignancy in some of us that drives us to merely answer to our own instincts and take what we can for ourselves that is ultimately destructive to both entity and body.

Can you hold the mind responsible for the disease that spreads across it? It's not like the entity has full control over everything that happens to it.

Mehhhh. 70% of Britons identify themselves as Christians, but how many really believe, rather than just carrying on the identity their parents gave them? Same could go for America.
I can believe that.

I mean, afterall, I shocked a friend when I asked them for their beliefs and added, "what do you truly, not what you're forced to believe?" They were quite taken back and replied that they weren't sure after saying that they did believe in God and had their faith in Catholicism.

So, it is very possible that people are raised and forced to think and identofy themselves based on a certain set of beliefs that their parents force on them.

I can believe that.

I mean, afterall, I shocked a friend when I asked them for their beliefs and added, "what do you truly, not what you're forced to believe?" They were quite taken back and replied that they weren't sure after saying that they did believe in God and had their faith in Catholicism.

So, it is very possible that people are raised and forced to think and identofy themselves based on a certain set of beliefs that their parents force on them.
It is not possible to be "forced" to believe something. That is not the same thing as "carrying on the identity their parents gave them." There is no belief necessary in the latter.

Mehhhh. 70% of Britons identify themselves as Christians, but how many really believe, rather than just carrying on the identity their parents gave them? Same could go for America.

Yeah, we have those kinds of hypocrites. LOTS of them...unfortunatly.

Why not? Cancer is a pretty common human disability; parts of our bodies mutate and, seeking to fulfil their own needs and wants at the expense of the rest of us, start to take over and kill their fellow cells. I reckon evil in the world is just that. Humans are a mutation from nature. Most of us are benign, and are quite content to simply live a symbiotic coexistence with the system, but there is that propensity towards malignancy in some of us that drives us to merely answer to our own instincts and take what we can for ourselves that is ultimately destructive to both entity and body.

Can you hold the mind responsible for the disease that spreads across it? It's not like the entity has full control over everything that happens to it.

I like this idea, not that i agree with it, or think it's the truth, but it's cool :)

I like this idea, not that i agree with it, or think it's the truth, but it's cool :)Be mimdful of your thoughts, young padawan. Passion leads to anger, anger leads to the dark side :p

Be mimdful of your thoughts, young padawan. Passion leads to anger, anger leads to the dark side :p
It's more of a grey side this one. Experimentation and understanding of the force for its own sake rather than to maintain balance or to fulfil our desires. <_<;

Be mimdful of your thoughts, young padawan. Passion leads to anger, anger leads to the dark side :p

Argh, i'm not a star wars fan :p

Because the original religions have all but disappeared. Its like modern Wicca or Neo-Paganism. A lot of the stuff today is made up and not neccessarily akin to the original worship.In other words, they DID deliberately choose to call their faith after the Christian satan, if only to have a link to something modern? After all, they could have just as easily named it "Osiranism" (or whatever). Instead, they deliberately chose a term that has major connotations in the Christian religion, and they knew what those connotations were.

Man, they really did choose the name of their faith to piss off the Christians.