NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canadavotes2006/national/2005/12/12/harper-american051212.html

Harper says he has 'many differences' with U.S. conservatives
Last Updated Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:18:37 EST
CBC News

Conservative Leader Stephen Harper appeared to distance himself from the U.S. administration Monday, pointing out that his positions on many issues differ from those of American conservatives.

Harper sent a letter to the editor of the Washington Times in response to a Dec. 2 column by Patrick Basham of the Cato Institute titled "Gift from Canada?"

Basham wrote: "Free-market economist Stephen Harper, leader of the opposition Conservative party, is pro-free trade, pro-Iraq war, anti-Kyoto and socially conservative."

"Move over Tony Blair," he continued. "If elected, Mr. Harper will quickly become Mr. Bush's new best friend internationally and the poster boy for his ideal foreign leader."

But Harper's letter said the "pro-free trade, pro-Iraq war, anti-Kyoto and socially conservative" characterization of his policy was an oversimplification of his positions.

He said that while he supports free trade, Canada would expand its trade relationships with Asian countries if the United States didn't pay the $5 billion in softwood lumber penalties.

On Iraq, Harper said he supported the removal of Saddam Hussein and applauded the "efforts to establish democracy and freedom."

But he said he would not commit Canadian troops to the country and added his "great disappointment" at not substantiating pre-war intelligence regarding weapons of mass destruction.

Regarding same-sex unions, he reiterated his position that he would vote to bring back the traditional definition of marriage. But he said those who already are married would continue to be recognized as legally wed.

Harper also pledged he would not initiate or support any effort to pass legislation restricting abortion in Canada.

"Despite my differences on many issues with some American conservative politicians, I look forward to a co-operative, constructive relationship with the United States as our principal trading partner and ally under a new Conservative government."

***

Sure Harper sure... is Harper trying to deny the fact that he "is pro-free trade, pro-Iraq war, anti-Kyoto and socially conservative" ?

No. Harper is trying to suck GWs dick while also trying to ensure his chances at getting elected by pretending that he doesn't actually swallow.

I mean really - what the hell is he saying?

We'll take our trade to asia if you don't cave? Fuck, we should be taking our trade to asia anyway. We need a wider customer base. And if it were that fucking easy to just find new buyers at a profitable price, the industry would have done it and kept going.

He supports the war but won't help? Talk about a guy who will stand up for his convictions!

He's against gay marriage and wants it banned.... except for in cases of gays who are already married? WTF?!




IS he lying?


Gee.... I dunno.

Are his lips moving?

Bah... of course he's lying - I mean look at the letter that tool wrote too that US publication apologizing for the cowardice of Canadians for not joining the US in going to Iraq. :gundge:

I'm a registered Conservative but I'll never vote for them while Harper is at the helm - he's too beholden to right-wing Christian fundies and Republicanism...

If Harper got elected, he's going to lead this country into the land of WTF.

Of COURSE he's lying. After all, those damn Conservatives are all the same. They might as well be clones of each other. And they all take orders from that Great Satan, GWB! They're plotting to take over the world! [/sarcasm]

The Canadian Conservatives have substanial differences to the US Republicans. Yes, they agree on some things, but that doesn't mean their beliefs are identical.

No one is accusing them of being identical.



Harper doesn't have to be GW's Mini-Me to still be a lying sack of fecal matter.

Regarding same-sex unions, he reiterated his position that he would vote to bring back the traditional definition of marriage. But he said those who already are married would continue to be recognized as legally wed.

Ha. I'd love to have him try to explain to the Supreme Court judges why Jack and John are still married, but Bill and Bob can't. So much for equality or rights protected by our beloved chart, isn't it?

As for the rest, he's just trying to make us Canadians believe he's not nearly as dangerously mental and retrograde as he truly is. A vote for Harper is a vote toward Canada's entry as the 53rd State of the USA. We'll be called "even norther Dakota" or something.

Harper doesn't have to be GW's Mini-Me to still be a lying sack of fecal matter.
Well put.

I'd like to thank Skaladora for demonstrating my point.

I'd like to thank Skaladora for demonstrating my point.
So me having not a single shred of respect for Stephen Harper personally makes me a loony that accuses conservatives of praying to the great Satan and wanting to wreck the world?

I think not. I despise conservative fondamentalists who let their religious beliefs enter their political statements. I despise the neoconservatives who are ready to sell their country's possessions to rich friends. I despise slaves to the corporations that slowly bleed the money out of the middle-class.

That doesn't mean I despise *all* conservatives. I might even have voted for the good old progressive-conservative party if they were still around. At least those guys were only fiscally conservative and consistent with their views.

But Harper and his bunch? Let's face it, people who openly support stripping minorities of their rights and embrace war and want to spend our hard-earned tax dollars on military matters all the while lowering the already dismally low taxes of the great corporations are not people I want running my country.

I am totally and completely opposed to Stephen Harper being Prime Minister of this country.

Change the conservative leader for someone who is neither Bush's lapdog nor a Christian fundamentalist xenophobe and homophobe, and we'll open a dialogue.

Would you guys vote for a Conservative leader with liberal social views?

That is, pro-free trade, balanced budget, tax cuts and reworked tax system but also pro-choice, atheist or of liberal religion and pro-same-sex marriage?

Would you guys vote for a Conservative leader with liberal social views?

That is, pro-free trade, balanced budget, tax cuts and reworked tax system but also pro-choice, atheist or of liberal religion and pro-same-sex marriage?
I would certainly consider that a serious, credible possibility, yeah. Unlike Harper.

While I don't necessarily agree with all facets of fiscal conservatism, I can certainly agree with a balanced budget, intelligent spending, a stop to corruption and wasting of our money.

Besides, a leader who would be socially liberal but fiscally conservative would essentially give us Paul Martin and the recent Liberal Government, but (I hope) without the corruption/arrogance/complacency they've grown used to.

Sure Harper sure... is Harper trying to deny the fact that he "is pro-free trade, pro-Iraq war, anti-Kyoto and socially conservative" ?Meh- anti-US (or at least, not drooling over the US in the case of the Conservatives) rhetoric is a standard election capaign standby. That all changes when people get elected.

Would you guys vote for a Conservative leader with liberal social views?

That is, pro-free trade, balanced budget, tax cuts and reworked tax system but also pro-choice, atheist or of liberal religion and pro-same-sex marriage?
YES. PLEASE.

I would certainly consider that a possibility, yeah.

While I don't necessarily agree with all facets of fiscal conservatism, I can certainly agree with a balanced budget, intelligent spending, a stop to corruption and wasting of our money.

Besides, a leader who would be socially liberal but fiscally conservative would essentially give us Paul Martin and the recent Liberal Government, but (I hope) without the corruption/arrogance/complacency they've grown used to.
I'd think there would be a few differences. A reduction of corporate welfare for example, which is something the liberals have grown quite complacent about. I also think a good fiscally conservative government would relax laws on guns and drugs so that the money that would be spent on enforcement could instead be spent fighting the poverty that causes people to turn to guns and drugs in the first place. That is, we'd fight the demand for guns and drugs rather than the losing battle we currently fight against supply.

Those are a few of the issues that really get to me when it comes to the Liberal government. They've been in power so long that they can't admit that a few of their policies have been bad ones. Gun registration, while an excellent idea in theory, has met roughly the same fate as the American War on Drugs: too many violations and not enough cash. The child care plan wouldn't even be necessary if the average Canadian family with working parents were able to actually keep more of the money they were earning rather than sending it to the government where it gets wasted bailing out everything from farmers to Air Canada.

I'd think there would be a few differences. A reduction of corporate welfare for example, which is something the liberals have grown quite complacent about. I also think a good fiscally conservative government would relax laws on guns and drugs so that the money that would be spent on enforcement could instead be spent fighting the poverty that causes people to turn to guns and drugs in the first place. That is, we'd fight the demand for guns and drugs rather than the losing battle we currently fight against supply.

Those are a few of the issues that really get to me when it comes to the Liberal government. They've been in power so long that they can't admit that a few of their policies have been bad ones. Gun registration, while an excellent idea in theory, has met roughly the same fate as the American War on Drugs: too many violations and not enough cash. The child care plan wouldn't even be necessary if the average Canadian family with working parents were able to actually keep more of the money they were earning rather than sending it to the government where it gets wasted bailing out everything from farmers to Air Canada.
I agree with you on those issues. Which is why I won't vote liberal in the forthcoming elections.

My choice isn't that hard, really.

I won't vote for the Bloc, I'm not separatist.
I won't vote for the conservatives, their current leader is a Christian fundie, xenophobe, homophobe lapdog of the American Neoconservatives.
I won't vote Liberal, for the reasons cited above.

I'll just vote NDP, who sadly are in 4th place and don't really have a chance of actually forming the government. But hey, that's better than the greens. :rolleyes:

Would you guys vote for a Conservative leader with liberal social views?

That is, pro-free trade, balanced budget, tax cuts and reworked tax system but also pro-choice, atheist or of liberal religion and pro-same-sex marriage?
http://assets.jolt.co.uk/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif (But I rather vote for the NDP anyways)

I agree with you on those issues. Which is why I won't vote liberal in the forthcoming elections.
Give me thirty years and I'll give you a real alternative.

Give me thirty years and I'll give you a real alternative.
I'll hold you up to that.

Give me thirty years and I'll give you a real alternative.You can join me, I'm gonna change Canada (and the world) with an environmentalist platform, in a mainstream party. If you like, you can handle the money while I cut ribbons on new wind facilities.

You can join me, I'm gonna change Canada (and the world) with an environmentalist platform, in a mainstream party. If you like, you can handle the money while I cut ribbons on new wind facilities.
Ring me if you need a Minister of New Technologies.

I can even be the mandatory Québec Minister in the Cabinet. Like killing two pigs with one stick, as they say.

Ring me if you need a Minister of New Technologies.

I can even be the mandatory Québec Minister in the Cabinet. Like killing two pigs with one stick, as they say.Sweet. What other recruitable token geographical/ethnic representatives are here?

Holy shit, Harper is lying. Firstly, let me say "dido" to basically reiterate all of your comments about how he wants to suck GW and such.

Then we move on to another issue that from what I read of this thread hadn't been mentioned yet: Health Care! ok, I admit, our health care system needs a lot of fixing. But the supposed idea that Stephen Harper wants to create a two-tier health care system is sickening. On CBC's "The Greatest Canadian" we voted Tommy Douglas as our greatest. What did he do? Create our public health care. Now, although he hasn't brought it up on his platform, we know from previous news that he supports a two-tier system.

Why the hell would we want that? There has been one, I repeat ONE study suggesting that this system would be the best way to fix the system for the Canadian citizens. This study was done by a group of Canadian doctors who, possibly, like the idea because it makes them more money. Numerous groups of British and American doctors have said to our country and government that we simply do not want this type of system, and that fixing what we have is a better solution.

And yet Stephen Harper's Conservatives still want a two tier system. Although its not really a lie, why would we vote for that?

There's an even chance that Harper is telling truth; he could just be plain old stupid and believes that what he says is achievable. It's called a pipe dream.

There really is no attractive party for this election - only a least offensive one.

Liberals - corrupted by power, no plan except the one to get re-elected...

Conservatives - the reason that the Liberals have been able to become corrupt (thanks Mulroney :mad: )

NDP - more pipe dreamers, socialism at the level they want it just won't work in today's free-market world.

Bloq - separatists (though if Quebec separates they can't skew any future federal elections...)

Green - single-issue party.


Of all the above "choices" I'll take the Greens, if only to stir the pot and make the other parties squirm.

NDP - more pipe dreamers, socialism at the level they want it just won't work in today's free-market world.No it isn't. they have responsible fiscal policies, and decent provincial records.

Green - single-issue party.No they aren't. They have comprehensive policies in their platform -don't be fooled by the name.

I think I'd vote Liberal for the simple purpose of keeping Harper out of office. The Bloc can't win because they only run in Quebec, and Green or NDP don't have a chance in this election. It comes down to this: Devil we know or Devil we don't (who is quite likely severely worse...)

Sweet. What other recruitable token geographical/ethnic representatives are here?

Well, I live in Saskatchewan. It could help your alternative party/platform, as the "Westerners" always seem to complain about being forgotten by Ottawa. I find it strange, considering that the greatest attention should go to where the largest population is, but whatever. It'll win you some votes.

Excelent, keep'em coming. Remember, I'm offering you a place in political and social immortality!

No it isn't. they have responsible fiscal policies, and decent provincial records.

No they aren't. They have comprehensive policies in their platform -don't be fooled by the name.

The NDP was demolished in BC largely because of corruption and economic ineptitude. I voted NDP (Mike Harcourt) to get the corrupt Socreds out of the Legislature, it was a sad day when his minister Mike Stupich fscked everything up.

As for the Greens, maybe we've read different Green Party home pages, but the one I've seen is strong on environmental rhetoric and weak on everything else.


Don't get me wrong, I'm all for environmental balance, but the rest of the world (Bush and his rabid terrier Condoleeza Rice) aren't.

Would you guys vote for a Conservative leader with liberal social views?

That is, pro-free trade, balanced budget, tax cuts and reworked tax system but also pro-choice, atheist or of liberal religion and pro-same-sex marriage?


Absolutely.

And up here, they call that "The Liberal Party".

If Harper got elected, he's going to lead this country into the land of WTF.

As if Chretien didn't, and Martin isn't already...

Like my father has always said, "Canada is a great country, in spite of the politicians, not because of them."

Absolutely.

And up here, they call that "The Liberal Party".
Yeah, the Liberal party that has the right ideas in theory that somehow get muddled on the way to practice.

Anyway, I'm from Manitoba, but I'l only join Kreitz's new party if I get to be Finance Minister.

Sweet. What other recruitable token geographical/ethnic representatives are here?
Well, I'm also gay, so I guess that's more pink votes our way, on top of the french ones.

I dont know if hes lying but he certainly sounds like a dick. Damn, conservatives piss me off.

Well, I'm also gay, so I guess that's more pink votes our way, on top of the french ones.Oh, that's really good. We'll get our money's worth out of you, for sure.

Oh, that's really good. We'll get our money's worth out of you, for sure.
Yes. And I'll even redecorate the chamber of commons for free :D

Kidding. Contrary to popular belief, being gay does not give one supernatural powers of interior decorating. Sorry to disappoint you all. :(

Alright. We've got a Frenchie and a prairie boy. Who's from the maritimes?

EDIT: And where are you from, Kreitz?

Ha. I'd love to have him try to explain to the Supreme Court judges why Jack and John are still married, but Bill and Bob can't. So much for equality or rights protected by our beloved chart, isn't it?

As for the rest, he's just trying to make us Canadians believe he's not nearly as dangerously mental and retrograde as he truly is. A vote for Harper is a vote toward Canada's entry as the 53rd State of the USA. We'll be called "even norther Dakota" or something.
I stil don't why the Canadians seem so paranoid about joining my country.

Realistically, what are the odds that the Liberals won't stay in power?

Absolutely.

And up here, they call that "The Liberal Party".


for some people liberal is the way to go, and i mean the new commers to canada,i hated what the liberal did, but they represnt most of canada, the minorties, the rights for everyone


even though i would enjoy the decrease on the gst

Of course he's lying, it's all too obvious :rolleyes:
He's just doing this to look good.
Just stfu Harper!:mad:

Alright. We've got a Frenchie and a prairie boy. Who's from the maritimes?

EDIT: And where are you from, Kreitz?I'm from B.C., so we've got a built-in westerner right there. Ya know, we might need to put up a notice for a white middle class, male, Ontarian.

I'm from B.C., so we've got a built-in westerner right there. Ya know, we might need to put up a notice for a white middle class, male, Ontarian.
Nonsense. We'll go for the Mulroney style Que-West bridge and leave Ontario in the dust.

Nonsense. We'll go for the Mulroney style Que-West bridge and leave Ontario in the dust.But -but - we need their money, basically. Maybe Buzz'll hop on board. He'll have to get used to making hybrid cars exclusively thoguh.

But -but - we need their money, basically. Maybe Buzz'll hop on board. He'll have to get used to making hybrid cars exclusively thoguh.
We're going to force companies to make only hybrid cars?! Why don't we just increase the consumption tax on gas so that consumers start demanding hybrid cars so they can afford to drive?

EDIT: By the time we're in power, people will only be driving hybrid cars.

I'm from B.CYeah, I live up north.

for some people liberal is the way to go, and i mean the new commers to canada,i hated what the liberal did, but they represnt most of canada, the minorties, the rights for everyone


even though i would enjoy the decrease on the gstSo you don't like Chinese people? I should label you a Nazi.

I stil don't why the Canadians seem so paranoid about joining my country.
We don't want to be burdened with the Bible belt is all. We have our hands full with Harper and his cronies already, let's not add in a shrub, please.

...is Harper trying to deny the fact that he "is pro-free trade, pro-Iraq war, anti-Kyoto and socially conservative" ?
Hugh betcha, TCR.

Realistically, what are the odds that the Liberals won't stay in power?
Too low for my liking. But at least they'll still be a minority government.

I stil don't why the Canadians seem so paranoid about joining my country.Your state is now the 11th province of Canada. Welcome to my country. :D

I'm from B.C., so we've got a built-in westerner right there. Ya know, we might need to put up a notice for a white middle class, male, Ontarian.
I'm a middle class white male, and my english is spotless. I could pretend to be Ontarian while adressing Ontario's voters, and say I'm from Québec whenever speaking to a francophone audience.

Nobody but me bothers watching the news/debates in both languages anyway.

Your state is now the 11th province of Canada. Welcome to my country. :D
Quick! Let's fuck 'em on their transfer payments!

...we'll just hold a 'boot ourselves out' referendum after we pay off our debt. "Uhh, sorry guys, but we've all decided to secede and form the 'Nation of no Homers'... erm, I mean, 'USians'. Hard luck. See you at the UN, eh?"

Too low for my liking. But at least they'll still be a minority government.If Quebec left Canada and the Conservatives got a new leader, we probably get a majority Conservative gov't. That's my fear.

If Quebec left Canada and the Conservatives got a new leader, we probably get a majority Conservative gov't. That's my fear.
If the rest of Canada actually considered voting NDP or green as an option against the liberals, instead of being dumb and voting for Harper's conservatives, then we might actually get somewhere, too.

There are more than two parties around in the rest of Canada, and you guys don't know how lucky you are for it.

Here my vote is going to be wasted because of the actual electoral rules. I'm neither voting for the liberals nor for the Bloc, and those are the only two parties on the Québec electoral map.

NDPers strategically vote LIBERAL to prevent a CONSERVATIVE being elected
CONSERVATIVEs strategically vote NDP to prevent a LIBERAL being elected
LIBERALs strategically vote NDP to prevent a CONSERVATIVE being elected
FEDERALISTS strategically vote LIBERAL to prevent a BLOC being elected
GREENs strategically vote NDP to prevent a LIBERAL being elected
GREENs strategically vote NDP to prevent a CONSERVATIVE being elected
GREENs strategically vote LIBERAL to prevent a CONSERVATIVE being elected
GREENs strategically vote CONSERVATIVE to prevent a LIBERAL being elected
NDPers strategically vote CONSERVATIVE to prevent a LIBERAL being elected
LIBERALs strategically vote CONSERVATIVE to prevent an NDP being elected
CONSERVATIVEs strategically vote LIBERAL to prevent an NDP being elected


source: http://democraticspace.com/blog/2005/12/a-canadian-voters-guide-to-strategic-voting/

Or we could all just vote like we really want to for once.

Or we could all just vote like we really want to for once.
It's what I've been doing since I'm old enough to vote, and my conscience thanks me for it.

I'm a middle class white male, and my english is spotless. I could pretend to be Ontarian while adressing Ontario's voters, and say I'm from Québec whenever speaking to a francophone audience.

Nobody but me bothers watching the news/debates in both languages anyway.
Manitoba is Central Canadian when it benefits us and Western when it benefits us. Besides, I'm moving to Ontario shortly.