NationStates Jolt Archive

Your Least favorite nation:
Italy
France
USA
Germany
Australia
UK
Russia
China
Japan
OTHER

Your Least favorite nation:
Italy
France
USA
Germany
Australia
UK
Russia
China
Japan
OTHER
Define "civilized!" :p

This is appauling. You only recognise certain nations as civilized? That to me is, well, barbaric. Many countries you might consider "uncivilized" actually have rich cultures and long traditions. What makes you think there are only a few civilized nations on earth?

China would be my least favorite.

they need to quit stealing the USA's Stealth Tech.

I'm not sure, but I suspect this thread may not have a long life.

Nevertheless, I will play along and say Saudi Arabia. I visited there when I was in the Navy, and what a pain in the ass it is to keep in mind all the cultural differences we had to learn so we wouldn't get killed by angry mobs. Very annoying. :(

Not to mention my fear of going to the bathroom anywhere but designated 'american' places. Toilet paper is not the norm there. :p

Define "civilized!" :p
A stable government, and not in africa

A stable government, and not in africa

That's not cool.

Your Least favorite nation:
Italy
France
USA
Germany
Australia
UK
Russia
China
Japan
OTHER
France, where even french people think french people are ignorant. You forgot canaidia, though i wouldnt vote agianst the country that invented hockey.

A stable government, and not in africa

So South Africa isn't civilized?

A stable government, and not in africa
South Africa and Morocco are not civilized?

Your Least favorite nation:
Italy
France
USA
Germany
Australia
UK
Russia
China
Japan
OTHER

FRANCE is the worst of those countries. Not fond japan or china - but at least the respect is there.

Good French joke

Q: How many generations does it take to learn ingratitude?
A: trois

This is flamebaiting. Just ignore the guy...

You want the best country?

I worked on the map - see if one country stands out...

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a220/jacob1231/map.jpg

Here's some URLs to info that hopefully will clear up your ignorance of African civilizations:
http://www.princetonol.com/groups/iad/lessons/middle/histmali.htm
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/CIVAFRCA/GHANA.HTM
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/CIVAFRCA/MWEN.HTM
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/CIVAFRCA/SWAHILI.HTM

I urge you to explore more of these sites, because ignorance is the root of many conflicts and mistakes.

Here's some URLs to info that hopefully will clear up your ignorance of African civilizations:
http://www.princetonol.com/groups/iad/lessons/middle/histmali.htm
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/CIVAFRCA/GHANA.HTM
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/CIVAFRCA/MWEN.HTM
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/CIVAFRCA/SWAHILI.HTM

I urge you to explore more of these sites, because ignorance is the root of many conflicts and mistakes.

God, you are like the multicultural, pro-diversity, pro 3rd world country poster boy.:D

Your Least favorite nation:
Italy
France
USA
Germany
Australia
UK
Russia
China
Japan
OTHER
I don't see any civilized nations on this list.

Other than Japan and Russia. They're too good to be labeled as worst though.

Define "civilized!" :p

Define "nation".

God, you are like the multicultural, pro-diversity, pro 3rd world country poster boy.:D
It's the whole N Y C/ International School backround...Thanks for the compliment!:)

A stable government, and not in africa

I hope you realize how incredibly insulting and ignorant this comment is.

I hope you realize how incredibly insulting and ignorant this comment is.
He was the one that posted the topic, sooo...

It's the whole N Y C/ International School backround...Thanks for the compliment!:)

Lol..we dont exactly see eye to eye on the whole multiculturalism thing, but, whatever floats your boat. lol.

He was the one that posted the topic, sooo...

Sooo... what? Because he made the topic, he automatically understands how offensive it is? I'm not sure I follow.

A stable government, and not in africa

that's not cool

I beg to differ...

Sooo... what? Because he made the topic, he automatically understands how offensive it is? I'm not sure I follow.

Yes its some what offensive, but its also true. Africa, in reality is not very civilized.

True, they may have Egypt, Moraco, and South Africa....and while they are the most civilized out of Africa, they are not civilized in comparison to the rest of the civilized world.

Sort of like: In the land of the blind, the guy with one eye is king. Make sense?

And by the way, South Africa, which is probably the most civilized nation in Africa, is going to shit. Its falling apart, becoming subject to violent racism, and forcing mass immigration of South African Whites. Its also has one of or the highest murder rates in the world.

I'm sure there are plenty of places in the USA (read: Arkansas, West Virginia, etc.) that are far less civilized than most African nations.

I'm sure there are plenty of places in the USA (read: Arkansas, West Virginia, etc.) that are far less civilized than most African nations.

No. Smurfing. Way.

Yes its some what offensive, but its also true. Africa, in reality is not very civilized.

True, they may have Egypt, Moraco, and South Africa....and while they are the most civilized out of Africa, they are not civilized in comparison to the rest of the civilized world.

Sort of like: In the land of the blind, the guy with one eye is king. Make sense?

And by the way, South Africa, which is probably the most civilized nation in Africa, is going to shit. Its falling apart, becoming subject to violent racism, and forcing mass immigration of South African Whites. Its also has one of or the highest murder rates in the world.

Still, automatically disqualifying all of Africa is most definitely offensive - especially since "civilized" is a subjective term.

I'm sure there are plenty of places in the USA (read: Arkansas, West Virginia, etc.) that are far less civilized than most African nations.

Nope. Sorry to inform you but anyplace where it's more likely for you to be murdered than for you to live past 50 is definately less civilized than any hill-billy backwater.

Still, automatically disqualifying all of Africa is most definitely offensive - especially since "civilized" is a subjective term.

I dont think it is offensive at all. If there are any African posters on here, this will not come as a shock, as they are living in those countries and know that they are not civilized. However, I doubt there are any African posters on here, which goes even farther to support the fact that Africa is not civilized.

Yes, having an internet connection is the true sign of civilization /sarcasm

Seriously, look at what you are saying. What possibly gives you the right to brush away the many complex and culturally significant civilizations like gold-rich Mali who at one point overshadowed their European contemporaries? Automattically assuming Africans are barbarians with no culture, ideas or history is insulting and backwards. In fact, if not for the effects of harsh slavery and colonialism, Africa today would likely have many more sucessful countries.

Furthermore, I doubt you know enough about Africa to understand opinions there if you don't even though it was the birthplace and STILL harbors cultures which have resiliently survived dispite constant pressure and in many cases upheval.

Yes, having an internet connection is the true sign of civilization /sarcasm

Seriously, look at what you are saying. What possibly gives you the right to brush away the many complex and culturally significant civilizations like gold-rich Mali who at one point overshadowed their European contemporaries? Automattically assuming Africans are barbarians with no culture, ideas or history is insulting and backwards. In fact, if not for the effects of harsh slavery and colonialism, Africa today would likely have many more sucessful countries.

Dude, no one said any of the stuff you said, we just said Africa doesn't have any civilized societies, relax, poster boy.

And also, Jews suffered way more than Blacks, and look at where they stand today....unimaginable success.

I dont think it is offensive at all. If there are any African posters on here, this will not come as a shock, as they are living in those countries and know that they are not civilized. However, I doubt there are any African posters on here, which goes even farther to support the fact that Africa is not civilized.

omg...

And I thought I was bad...

omg...

And I thought I was bad...

lol, you are, I'm just worse.

*Bad to the bone plays in the background*

As a Jew, I must point out that even though we did undergo a lot of hardship, our situation was and is very different from the people of Africa. In many cases, even trhough they faced discrimination, we were still allowed to conduct business (nazi germany being the obvious exception). There were many differences in the plight of our two peoples. We weren't enslaved, or colonized. In many cases, we had the chance to immigrate to better oppertunities. If you are suggesting there is some default in Blacks that have made them less sucessful than jews, you are dead wrong. The problems of Africa have different sources...

I really don't like Cuba. Then again, I dislike all communist countries >.>

of all african countries morocco is most civilized.... south africa has way to much HIV/AIDS prevalancey rate, up to 30%.... dont give a damn about the egyptians of old or the kushites either....

Sooo... what? Because he made the topic, he automatically understands how offensive it is? I'm not sure I follow.

No, I was being sarcastic. He posted a dumbass thread, and made a dumbass explenation.


Grade A dumbass, if you ask me.

As a Jew, I must point out that even though we did undergo a lot of hardship, our situation was and is very different from the people of Africa. In many cases, even trhough they faced discrimination, we were still allowed to conduct business (nazi germany being the obvious exception). There were many differences in the plight of our two peoples. We weren't enslaved, or colonized. In many cases, we had the chance to immigrate to better oppertunities. If you are suggesting there is some default in Blacks that have made them less sucessful than jews, you are dead wrong. The problems of Africa have different sources...

1. I am Jewish too.

2. We are not talking about the reasons they are uncivlized, just the fact that they are. The whole world accepts that Africa is uncivilized, why cant you. Why do you think we pour billions of dollars of aid into that corrupt cesspool?

I really don't like Cuba. Then again, I dislike all communist countries >.>
Cuba isn't communist. Cuba is authoritarian socialist. I dislike all people who fall for the corporate police state planners' propoganda.

To the OP, there are no civilized or barbaric peoples, there are only different cultures. That is sometihng your think ignorant skull will never comprehend.

Cuba isn't communist. Cuba is authoritarian socialist. I dislike all people who fall for the corporate police state planners' propoganda.

To the OP, there are no civilized or barbaric peoples, there are only different cultures. That is sometihng your think ignorant skull will never comprehend.

If Cuba is "authoritarian socialist", if the Soviet Union was "authoritarian socialist", if the PRC was "authoritarian socialist", if the DPRK is "authoritarian socialist", it begs the question, is communism possible?

Cuba isn't communist. Cuba is authoritarian socialist. I dislike all people who fall for the corporate police state planners' propoganda.

To the OP, there are no civilized or barbaric peoples, there are only different cultures. That is sometihng your think ignorant skull will never comprehend.

HAHAHAHHAHA omg, that is the most liberal, hippy, pinko statement I have ever seen in my life. Oh, wow. Thank you very much for that good laugh.
"there are no civilized or barbaric peoples, there are only different cultures."
OMG, haha wow. what a knee slapper. Again, thanks for the entertainment, Ill be sure to tip my waitress.

2. We are not talking about the reasons they are uncivlized, just the fact that they are. The whole world accepts that Africa is uncivilized, why cant you. Why do you think we pour billions of dollars of aid into that corrupt cesspool?
By my definition, civilization is any society with complex legal,political, economic and religious organizations. Africa, and almost the entire of the rest of the world, dispite having many problems with corruption, among other things, fits into that. Africans do not lumber around grunting and eating raw meat. Also don't tell me "The whole world accepts that Africa is uncivilized", because not only do you not know the majority of the world, but many educated people know of the great civilizations like Mali that once graced the continent, or the changes taking place their now. Some city centers like Nairobi look very similar to Western ones, with high rises and computers. We give Africa lots of aid because they are cursed with a variety of problems, many of which you can't blame on the average African. Not all of Africa is a "cesspool". Why not actually do some research on the topic?

There are no civilized or barbaric peoples, there are only different cultures. . I was about to say this, but this is a very good, correct point. A culture that may seem unusual is not any bvetter or worse than any other, only different.

lol, you are, I'm just worse.

*Bad to the bone plays in the background*

Boom! Here comes the: Boom! Ready or not...

Here comes the boys from the South!

(if you consider SoCal from the south... south west...)

We give Africa lots of aid because they are cursed with a variety of problems, many of which you can't blame on the average African.

I'm sorry. The Average African is the problem. You can't just blame the warlords and fighters. Anyone who is just kowtowed around really, in a way, deserves it. The average African, not the oddball African, perpetuates the conditions he lives in.

There are other choices than just living in hell. Adam had a choice, now he lives on Earth. Lucifer had a choice, now he lives in hell.

They have choices too. There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

By my definition, civilization is any society with complex legal,political, economic and religious organizations. Africa, and almost the entire of the rest of the world, dispite having many problems with corruption, among other things, fits into that. Africans do not lumber around grunting and eating raw meat. Also don't tell me "The whole world accepts that Africa is uncivilized", because not only do you not know the majority of the world, but many educated people know of the great civilizations like Mali that once graced the continent, or the changes taking place their now. Some city centers like Nairobi look very similar to Western ones, with high rises and computers. We give Africa lots of aid because they are cursed with a variety of problems, many of which you can't blame on the average African. Not all of Africa is a "cesspool". Why not actually do some research on the topic?

Dude, you gotta stop living in the past. Last time I checked we were living in the now. Who gives a shit about what Mali did back in the day. Germany was an evil superpower back in the day, but that relates in no way on present day Germany. And by the way, I do know the majority of the world. Shows how much you know. pfft.

USA hands down is the worst country ever. You guys declare war, and then half the country hates itself. Where is your sense of pride in your nation? Your sense of nationalism? Patriotism? Imperialism?

USA hands down is the worst country ever. You guys declare war, and then half the country hates itself. Where is your sense of pride in your nation? Your sense of nationalism? Patriotism? Imperialism?

Unlike some nations, it's not against the law to criticize the government.

USA is my least favorite Nation. Not really is population, who can be, well I believe, correct. But is administration just discust me.

I was about to say this, but this is a very good, correct point. A culture that may seem unusual is not any bvetter or worse than any other, only different.

Oh come on, you dont actually beleive that do you?

In the middle east, they dont let women independent lives, or say at all. Or some places they rape/pillage/and eat people.

Are these societies and cultures civilized and acceptable...just cuz they are different?

Oh come on, you dont actually beleive that do you?

In the middle east, they dont let women independent lives, or say at all. Or some places they rape/pillage/and eat people.

Are these societies and cultures civilized and acceptable...just cuz they are different?

Of course it is! Don't you know the word relative? The think that you think is bad, may be good for other people. The bad and the good is only a percpetion of human. There's no black nor white, only human eyes to get that...

Oh come on, you dont actually beleive that do you?

In the middle east, they dont let women independent lives, or say at all. Or some places they rape/pillage/and eat people.

Are these societies and cultures civilized and acceptable...just cuz they are different?

That's their culture. Leave them alone.

I fully support any culture that feels like oppressing anyone because everyone's entitled "to their own opinion".

Yes, having an internet connection is the true sign of civilization /sarcasm

Seriously, look at what you are saying. What possibly gives you the right to brush away the many complex and culturally significant civilizations like gold-rich Mali who at one point overshadowed their European contemporaries? Automattically assuming Africans are barbarians with no culture, ideas or history is insulting and backwards. In fact, if not for the effects of harsh slavery and colonialism, Africa today would likely have many more sucessful countries.

Furthermore, I doubt you know enough about Africa to understand opinions there if you don't even though it was the birthplace and STILL harbors cultures which have resiliently survived dispite constant pressure and in many cases upheval.

Look, every Civilization has it's worth, and has it's own glories and such. But look at it this way, while the Mali culture was significant in West Africa (and served as a bastion for further Islamic spreading into Africa) and other parts of Africa, and even possibly have some effect on Europe. Think of it globally. Could you say that African culture has been as significant in terms of ideas, technology, art, and religion as many western nations? Europe, taken as a whole, basically created/refined modern democracy, invented socialism, was the testing ground for countless governments, basically enslaved the entire world through it's technological superiority, was home to a religion that is, arguably, the most dominant religion on earth, and basically was the center of artistic expression, even if it was only because of it's power to spread it's ideas outward.

I'm not saying Africa isn't home to "Civilization", but in terms of global significance, Africa pales in comparison to Western nations.

. I was about to say this, but this is a very good, correct point. A culture that may seem unusual is not any bvetter or worse than any other, only different.

So baby-rape as a cure for AIDS is just an aesthetic preference then?

If Cuba is "authoritarian socialist", if the Soviet Union was "authoritarian socialist", if the PRC was "authoritarian socialist", if the DPRK is "authoritarian socialist", it begs the question, is communism possible?

Nope, a purely communist country is not possible. It's the perfect system of government trying to be implemented by imperfect human beings. Yeah, it won't ever work, but you gotta love those pipe dreams.

South Africa and Morocco are not civilized?

Sure, they might be civilized, but nobody's going to dislike them as much as they dislike the options on the list. And you can only get 10 options on a poll, so since those aren't in the 10 most hated nations list, wouldn't you be happy?

If Cuba is "authoritarian socialist", if the Soviet Union was "authoritarian socialist", if the PRC was "authoritarian socialist", if the DPRK is "authoritarian socialist", it begs the question, is communism possible?

Yes, although when it does arise, it tends to be squashed rather quickly by a show of military force from authoritarian "socialists" (Ukraine, 1920s, Hungary 1956), fascists and those with business interests (Spanish Civil War).

So baby-rape as a cure for AIDS is just an aesthetic preference then?
First of all, the actual practice of that is, to my knowledge, exaggerated. Secondly, all people commit horrible acts. Africans are prehhaps given more media attention doing so due to the multitude of disasters/conflicts there.

First of all, the actual practice of that is, to my knowledge, exaggerated. Secondly, all people commit horrible acts. Africans are prehhaps given more media attention doing so due to the multitude of disasters/conflicts there.

No, Africans just commit more horrible acts, if anything they get less media attention because it is so common place.

1) I don't really care about the achievments of Mali half a millenium ago. The fact is that on average, African countries are simply not on par with European or American countries by many if not all social and economic indicators. Whose fault that is a discussion for another thread, but that's the fact.

2) China. I'd say France or Canada but...you know.

Could you say that African culture has been as significant in terms of ideas, technology, art, and religion as many western nations?

I'm not saying Africa isn't home to "Civilization", but in terms of global significance, Africa pales in comparison to Western nations.
In many ways, yes, Europe has done more than Africs. However, Africa has also contributed much to worldwide and even american culture. Jazz, for instance, traces some of its roots to Africa. Africa has also had religions, ideas etc., but as they were dominated by the Europeans, the cultural spread was more one way, though slaves did bring MANY traditions that now influence the cultures of the US and Carribean. I do agree though, that Europe had a greater direct impact on the rest of the world due to its heavy expansion/colonization/warring/technological advancement etc., though during the middle ages it was not as likely that Europe would have come as far as it did. Another underappreciated people, the mongols, helped start our global age by really connecting East and West, facilitating the modern world (read "Genghis Kahn and the Making of the Modern World" for info on this facsinating empire that, though many thought barbaric, actually really helped the two-way spread of culture and ttech. Europe, by the way, suffered the least jet got all the advantages of the mongol invasion, prehAPS WHY WE DON'T SPEAK Arabic instead.

Why don't we just use the UN Human Development Index to gauge "civilized" nations? It isn't perfect, but it should be a good enough rough approximation for our purposes. The list of all countries (including Hong Kong, which isn't really a country, but so different from China that the UN apparently still counts it as such) with a Human Development Index of .9 and above is:

Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hong Kong, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Singapore, Slovenia, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, United Kingdom, United States

Why don't we just use the UN Human Development Index to gauge "civilized" nations? It isn't perfect, but it should be a good enough rough approximation for our purposes. The list of all countries (including Hong Kong, which isn't really a country, but so different from China that the UN apparently still counts it as such) with a Human Development Index of .9 and above is:

Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hong Kong, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, Norway, Netherlands, New Zealand, Portugal, Singapore, Slovenia, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, United Kingdom, United States

Oh joy! The United Nations... just remember the first two letters in unethical are UN...

Why don't we just use the UN Human Development Index to gauge "civilized" nations? It isn't perfect, but it should be a good enough rough approximation for our purposes. The list of all countries (including Hong Kong, which isn't really a country, but so different from China that the UN apparently still counts it as such) with a Human Development Index of .9 and above is:

Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hong Kong, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, Norway, Netherlands, New Zealand, Portugal, Singapore, Slovenia, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, United Kingdom, United States

Wow...would you look at that?!!? No African nations....goly gee wiz, looks like I could have been right.

Oh joy! The United Nations... just remember the first two letters in unethical are UN...
Did you miss the part where I said it wasn't perfect? Just because it comes from the UN doesn't mean it's complete baloney. It's sure as hell a better definition than the topic creator gave, and all I've seen everyone else do is bicker about Africa's status. Here is a list supported by facts of some kind.

Wow...would you look at that?!!? No African nations....goly gee wiz, looks like I could have been right.

Oh bother... You know Atlantian, the logic you and I subscribe to just won't be acknowledged as correct by the common masses... :headbang:

Oh well, they are entitled to their 'wrong' opinion... ;)

(I love you all! :D )

Did you miss the part where I said it wasn't perfect? Just because it comes from the UN doesn't mean it's complete baloney. It's sure as hell a better definition than the topic creator gave, and all I've seen everyone else do is bicker about Africa's status. Here is a list supported by facts of some kind.

I was being sarcastic dude. Completely kidding. It's actually kind of nice to know that, even with our 'racist' war and all of this nonsense, we're still high in the human development list...

Oh bother... You know Atlantian, the logic you and I subscribe to just won't be acknowledged as correct by the common masses... :headbang:

Oh well, they are entitled to their 'wrong' opinion... ;)

(I love you all! :D )

They will learn in time, the foolish masses, or else I will MAKE EM.:D

As I think someone said earlier, you are using the ancient (hellenic) definition of civilization. You have yet to prove that any African country doesn't fit into the MODERN definition of civilization.

In my opinion, there is a difference between development and civilization. We think of the ancient Chinese or Sumerians as civilizations, yet they wouldn't be very high up on that list today, would they? Many ancient civilizations had uncivilized elements like brutal punishments and genocidal wars, but we still consider them civilizations.


No, Africans just commit more horrible acts, if anything they get less media attention because it is so common place.
I was trying to say that the fact that more atrocities are commited in Africa was conditional, i.e. many of them live in situations that lead to such things as being forced to kill, pillage (child soldiers) etc. It is not the result of Africans being "uncivilized" people who have no values or conscience. If that is what you are getting at, connecting the two, then you have the very outdated of Africa as the "dark continent"

Also, why have so many people lumped the continent together. There are many widely contrasting countries and people on the continent. Several of those countries have quite modern-looking cities and transports. That is not to say a huge portion of it remains very poor and unhelped, but you must realize there is a difference between living in, say, Sierra Leone or Kenya.

What point do you have, by the way, in trying to convince everyone that Africa is a "cesspool" that wastes our money? Is there any other purpose of our aid dollars than helping the desperately needy?

As I think someone said earlier, you are using the ancient (hellenic) definition of civilization. You have yet to prove that any African country doesn't fit into the MODERN definition of civilization.

In my opinion, there is a difference between development and civilization. We think of the ancient Chinese or Sumerians as civilizations, yet they wouldn't be very high up on that list today, would they? Many ancient civilizations had uncivilized elements like brutal punishments and genocidal wars, but we still consider them civilizations.


I was trying to say that the fact that more atrocities are commited in Africa was conditional, i.e. many of them live in situations that lead to such things as being forced to kill, pillage (child soldiers) etc. It is not the result of Africans being "uncivilized" people who have no values or conscience. If that is what you are getting at, connecting the two, then you have the very outdated of Africa as the "dark continent"

Also, why have so many people lumped the continent together. There are many widely contrasting countries and people on the continent. Several of those countries have quite modern-looking cities and transports. That is not to say a huge portion of it remains very poor and unhelped, but you must realize there is a difference between living in, say, Sierra Leone or Kenya.

What point do you have, by the way, in trying to convince everyone that Africa is a "cesspool" that wastes our money? Is there any other purpose of our aid dollars than helping the desperately needy?

Two things.
1. One could seperate Africa between the North (Muslim Africa), and the rest (Black Africa). Muslim Africa has advanced way more than any of the rest of the continent (minus south Africa) possibly because of the spread of Islam and a set of values and a (more or less) civilized way of life. Black Africa, however, is a cess pool, is uncivilized, and we continue to dump large amounts of money into the countries which in turn get put directly into the pockets of the government officials.
2. The only reason you could even mention South Africa on your list of Africa countries that YOU say are civilized, is because the British built it from the ground up, so that doesnt count. Notice how now, after they are killing and forcing all the White people to leave, South Africa is going to hell, has anyone else noticed that?

I'm going to have to go with China myself. Totalitarian regimes are not my cup of tea.

A stable government, and not in africa

Africans are civilized, their governments are not.

Sure, they might be civilized, but nobody's going to dislike them as much as they dislike the options on the list. And you can only get 10 options on a poll, so since those aren't in the 10 most hated nations list, wouldn't you be happy?
But they're in Africa, and according to the definition given in the thread, that makes them uncivilized.

Sweden!

Those cheeky sweeds come to norway, and take our jobs!
Today, I actually heard someone speaking sweedish - in public :eek: !

Two things.
1. One could seperate Africa between the North (Muslim Africa), and the rest (Black Africa). Muslim Africa has advanced way more than any of the rest of the continent (minus south Africa) possibly because of the spread of Islam and a set of values and a (more or less) civilized way of life. Black Africa, however, is a cess pool, is uncivilized, and we continue to dump large amounts of money into the countries which in turn get put directly into the pockets of the government officials.
2. The only reason you could even mention South Africa on your list of Africa countries that YOU say are civilized, is because the British built it from the ground up, so that doesnt count. Notice how now, after they are killing and forcing all the White people to leave, South Africa is going to hell, has anyone else noticed that?

Black Africa is not a cesspool because of of its people, but because of its governments (as you pointed out). Mobutu Sese Seko, Kenneth Kaunda, Hastings Banda, Agostinho Neto, Samora Machel, Julius Nyerere, Kwame Nkrumah, Omar Bongo, Jean-Bedel Bokassa, Idi Amin, Milton Obote, etc...Africa has not had very many good governments. There are a few happy exceptions, like Sir Seretse Khama and Moise Tshombe, but they are the exception and not the rule.

And as for South Africa, part of the reason it advanced so high was through the use of blacks as a source of cheap labor. And South Africa started going to hell even before the end of apartheid.

Sweden!

Those cheeky sweeds come to norway, and take our jobs!
Today, I actually heard someone speaking sweedish - in public :eek: !

[Edit] Actually, sweden isn't really civilized. Going around, eating their filthy meatballs.

The African countries came out of colonialism just 50-60 years ago. Colonialism outstripped them of resources and fundamentally altered their lifes in such a way that it'll take them generations to get stability.

It's not that they're uncivilized per se, but that they're extremely poor, their governments corrupt and easily manipulated by foreign corporations and powers, and still rooted in tribal superstitions and conflicts. Places in SE Asia have recently gone, or are going, through similar problems.

No Nation is civilized. there are civilized people in many nations, however.

Africa is poor for many reasons, none of which can be attributed to the African people themselves:

A) Many of the European powers (especially the Belgians) left too quickly, instead of staying around to gradually prepare their colonies for self-government.

B) The West and East helped prop up dictators- without the consent of their people- and kept these dictators in power with billions of dollars, to keep them in the Western or Eastern sphere of influence. These dictators pocketed most of the money, but the West and East forgave them, so long as they didn't waver in their loyalty.

C) Even today, corruption in Africa is all-pervasive. African rulers live like sultans, while their people die of disease, starvation, etc.

If Africa had more men like Sir Seretse Khama (one of the rare African leaders who ran a largely corruption free administration and worked to build up his country, rather than enrich himself), they would be much better off.