NationStates Jolt Archive

COMMENTARY: I'm having a bit of a struggle with this one. On one hand, I don't care for the characterization used in the email, but on the other hand, I don't think the university should have charged the individual with "sexual harrassment" for stating his beliefs.


University Drops Charges Against Student
for Opposition to Homosexuality (http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=/Culture/archive/200512/CUL20051212a.html)


By Nathan Burchfiel
CNSNews.com Correspondent
December 12, 2005

(CNSNews.com) - William Paterson University on Wednesday dropped sexual harassment charges against a student employee who had expressed his religion's opposition to homosexuality.

In March, Dr. Arlene Scala, a professor of women's studies at the New Jersey university, sent a mass e-mail inviting students and employees to a screening of "Ruth and Connie: Every Room in the House," a documentary about a lesbian couple.

Jihad Daniel, a 63-year-old graduate student and computer technician who is a convert to Islam, sent a private e-mail to Scala asking to be excluded from future invitations because homosexual relationships "are perversions."

Daniel also complained about the lack of religion in the classroom, stating that "the absence of God in higher education brings on confusion."

The university on June 15 put a letter of reprimand in Daniel's file, noting that his use of the word "perversion" was "derogatory and demeaning" and violated the state's non-discrimination policy. It said that Scala had found the e-mail "threatening."

New Jersey Attorney General Peter Harvey defended the university's decision in a letter to the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE), a free speech organization that had voiced support for Daniel during his appeal.

Harvey wrote that "not every utterance is protected under the First Amendment" and that "speech which violates a non-discrimination policy is not protected."

But the hearing officer for the case, Sandra DeYoung, is independent from Harvey's office and found that Daniel was not guilty of violating the non-discrimination code. The university removed the letter of reprimand from Daniel's file and dropped the harassment charges.

"Mr. Daniel's use of the word 'perversion,' although it may be upsetting to some, does not appear to have caused any discriminatory actions," DeYoung stated in her report, noting that the e-mail "did not sound like hate speech." She concluded that Daniel had already been adequately reprimanded for using employee time and equipment for a personal communication.

FIRE President David French praised DeYoung's decision, calling it "far more reminiscent of the points that we've been making than it is of the attorney general's opinion." He added that DeYoung's decision "was influenced by constitutional principles, whereas the attorney general's opinion letter ... was completely off base."

French told Cybercast News Service that the university's actions constituted an "abuse of harassment guidelines to prohibit protected speech." He said such abuses happen "a lot" at universities across the nation.

"The heart of the modern university speech code is an abuse of ... discriminatory harassment guidelines," French said. "The majority of FIRE's cases involve a misunderstanding or abuse of harassment law to suppress speech."

Calls requesting comment from William Paterson University and Scala's office were not returned Friday. Classes at the university were cancelled due to inclement weather.

Calling someone a pervert just because of his/her sexual identity is worth some sort of a sanction, methinks. Of course you have to have right for free speech, but not for pointless insulting like that. Same as calling someone a murderer just because you think that eating meat is murder.

Ok, not the best example, I know...:rolleyes:

But that's how I think anyways.

Jihad Daniel, a 63-year-old graduate student and computer technician who is a convert to Islam, sent a private e-mail to Scala asking to be excluded from future invitations because homosexual relationships "are perversions."

Daniel also complained about the lack of religion in the classroom, stating that "the absence of God in higher education brings on confusion."

Doesn't sound a very pleasant type, but


It said that Scala had found the e-mail "threatening."

Overreacting somewhat...

I don't think you can make people fit in to your conception of 'pleasant' via the courts. The student should have let it slide, but the uni looked foolish in taking them to court. Free speech outranks pleasantness!

"the absence of God in higher education brings on confusion."
With an attitude like that, the fuckwit doesn't belong in higher education in the first place.

Free Speech, I say!

With an attitude like that, the fuckwit doesn't belong in higher education in the first place.
Seconded.

Free Speech, I say!
seconded. Not that I agree with what was said or anything, but if people could only say things I agreed with then the world would be a very quiet and annoying place...............

With an attitude like that, the fuckwit doesn't belong in higher education in the first place.
No, he's just in the wrong school. He needs to go to a madrassa in South Waziristan.

seconded. Not that I agree with what was said or anything, but if people could only say things I agreed with then the world would be a very quiet and annoying place...............

Not to mention totalitarianish.

No, he's just in the wrong school. He needs to go to a madrassa in South Waziristan.

Or certain schools in Palestine, controlled by certain club called Hamas. They have plenty of use for that sort of a attitude...

The complainant has every right to make the statement that he considers homosexuality a perversion (as long as he didn't actually make any threats) and to demand that religious studies be taught. The school and instructor have every right to tell him he's a jerk for doing it and even to require the film as part of the course of study if it is appropriate subject matter for the course (and I think that material about lesbianism in a women's studies course is appropriate, personally). The complainant is then within his rights to either drop the class or, if the drop deadline has passed, refuse to attend. In the latter case, the professor is within his/her rights to give him an F.

The classroom is not a forum for free speech. You can take the course or not. The complainants right to free speech is in no way abrogated by requiring him to either master the course material or get an F. That, in fact, is what a classroom is for.

The classroom is not a forum for free speech. You can take the course or not. The complainants right to free speech is in no way abrogated by requiring him to either master the course material or get an F. That, in fact, is what a classroom is for.

Most universities in the US have several mandatory classes regardless of your intended major - usually a women's studies or a multicultural studies course.

Most universities in the US have several mandatory classes regardless of your intended major - usually a women's studies or a multicultural studies course.

Of which I don't have to take!

*does dance*

Don't get me wrong, I think the wording of the email was rude as hell & completely uncalled for, but I can't see how it would warrent that kind of reaction.

But.. Imagine if it had been exactly the opposite; the student had been gay & responded with a graphic & suggestive email. How would the teacher & university have reacted then?

Most universities in the US have several mandatory classes regardless of your intended major - usually a women's studies or a multicultural studies course.
In which case, the twerp should have received his demerits rather than being exeunted over free speech: he's never going to grasp that speaking freely might have consequences if people go around making exceptions for him.

But.. Imagine if it had been exactly the opposite; the student had been gay & responded with a graphic & suggestive email. How would the teacher & university have reacted then?
Or if he'd been dissing a racial group rather than queers, perhaps...

Most universities in the US have several mandatory classes regardless of your intended major - usually a women's studies or a multicultural studies course.

Yes, all universities do. And as far as I know, they also all require that students receive a syllabus at the beginning of the semester that outlines the course, including the material to be studied. Universities also don't have any single course in the areas you name that every student must take; multiple options to fulfill such requirements are offered. Thus, the complainant could have chosen a different course that was more in line with what he believed in or, if he disagreed with the requirements of one university, transferred to a different one. The responsibility for all of this is on the student. It seems to me like this particular individual likely had an agenda from the outset.

BTW, at my university (which is a very large one), there's no requirement to take a women's studies course. There are what are called "diversity" requirements, and those include almost any freshman-level class you can name that deals with culture, religion, sociology, etc. I fulfilled my own requirements by taking Intro to Sociology and a survey course on South Asian religions, for example, but those were only two out of about 50 different courses I could have chosen to fulfill the same requirements. I'm sure the unhappy camper had other options, too.

In which case, the twerp should have received his demerits rather than being exeunted over free speech: he's never going to grasp that speaking freely might have consequences if people go around making exceptions for him.

In the US, outside of university or a corporate office, free speech has little consequence other than odd looks or the occasional ass-beating.

I remember having to take a multicultural studies course all the way back in the glory days of the early 1980s - mandatory. The professor was an avowed Marxist who spent each lecture trying to hammer home why Marxist revolution was good and inevitable - hardly the subject matter I had been expecting. I spent the entire semester lampooning the professor, writing papers critical of Marx (even when assigned another topic), and doing the same on the final exam, which was all essay questions.

I got an F - an F which I am proud of to this day. The vision of the apoplectic professor stymied by someone who wouldn't accept his worldview was my reward.

Took the same course again with a different professor - one who obviously had multiculturalism in mind.

In the US, outside of university or a corporate office, free speech has little consequence other than odd looks or the occasional ass-beating.

I remember having to take a multicultural studies course all the way back in the glory days of the early 1980s - mandatory. The professor was an avowed Marxist who spent each lecture trying to hammer home why Marxist revolution was good and inevitable - hardly the subject matter I had been expecting. I spent the entire semester lampooning the professor, writing papers critical of Marx (even when assigned another topic), and doing the same on the final exam, which was all essay questions.

I got an F - an F which I am proud of to this day. The vision of the apoplectic professor stymied by someone who wouldn't accept his worldview was my reward.

Took the same course again with a different professor - one who obviously had multiculturalism in mind.
That sounds fair enough, to be honest. This guy wasn't restraining his argument to a reasonable context for disagreeing with a lecturer, though.

But.. Imagine if it had been exactly the opposite; the student had been gay & responded with a graphic & suggestive email. How would the teacher & university have reacted then?

"Gosh, he's just expressing his/her natural inclinations! If you're offended, you're an idiot."

About like that.

while I don't agree with what was said, I have to say, its free speech. this should be supported more at the university (a place of "higher education", and therefore the discourse that goes with it) than anywhere else. His opinions give the chance for dialogue, and possibly understanding and respect.

Additionally, I think he should have gone to the movie and stated his argument against it. By boycotting, he lost an opportunity to have his side heard.
As for the woman feeling threatened, it may have something to do with him having the name "Jihad"

Of which I don't have to take!

*does dance*
Neither do I!

*joins dance*

With an attitude like that, the fuckwit doesn't belong in higher education in the first place.

Damn right. Religion only belongs in higher education (or any other level) if you are studying theology.

And what if someone had made a similarly offensive racist remark? Theyd have been in far more trouble.

I'm glad to see that the case was dropped. This is nonsense, and I'm ashamed to be a liberal when we show our close-minded sides. You may not like what he has to say, but he has the right to say it.

COMMENTARY: I'm having a bit of a struggle with this one. On one hand, I don't care for the characterization used in the email, but on the other hand, I don't think the university should have charged the individual with "sexual harrassment" for stating his beliefs.

-snip-.

I don't have a problem with this one, seems to be no conflict of rights here.. IMHO.

A teacher sent an email to students and faculty inviting them to a movie which approved of some form of homosexual behavior... The invitation was sent campus wide, obviously, since the article mentions that this was sent to "students and employees", and therefore was not inclusive to any woman's study curriculum, since the invitation would have equally been sent to people NOT in her class, as in her class, not to mention other university employees [since it also mentions employees, that means both faculty and staff would have been inclusive]...

A student-employee, who was religiously opposed to such life-styles, interated to the teacher what he thought of this, and asked not to be included in any furture mailings...

If it ended there it would have been fine... But the "teacher" [I use the term loosely] had to make a big hub-bub about it, because appearantly she believes no one else is entitled to contrary opinions to her own, and take it up with the school to attempt to deny the rights of this student through bullshit litigation.

As much as I disagree with the letter's contens, I do agree with Tekania and others who defend his right to say it. If you can't have a rational discussion with someone, you can't ever hope to even begin to change their minds.

I think he should have been reprimanded,but they went overboard.

Is William Paterson University a public or private university? If it is private then do students or faculty truly have the right to free speech in relating to the university? We don't have free speech here on this board. We have mods. Should we have free speech here?

Of course you have to have right for free speech, but not for pointless insulting like that.
When you start defining what free speech is for and what isn't, then you've stopped talking about free speech. The whole essence of free speech is people are allowed to express views regardless of how unpleasant or unpopular they are. There is no difference in principle between denying someone the right to speak contrary to an anti-discrimination policy and denying them the right to speak against any government policy ... somebody in authority is deciding which opinions are acceptable and which are not, and that is a step on the road to totalitarianism.

Trans-human']I think he should have been reprimanded,but they went overboard.

Is William Paterson University a public or private university? If it is private then do students or faculty truly have the right to free speech in relating to the university? We don't have free speech here on this board. We have mods. Should we have free speech here?

Public...


Founded in the city of Paterson in 1855, William Paterson is one of the nine state colleges and universities in New Jersey.

That sounds fair enough, to be honest. This guy wasn't restraining his argument to a reasonable context for disagreeing with a lecturer, though.
I figure that if you don't like the class syllabus, or don't like the lecturer, you should confront the lecturer directly, and let them know in a civilized manner that you disagree with them.

After that, you should expect to either have to drop the class, or get an F. It's their school, their curriculum, and the professor's class.

If the professor wants people to stand on their heads, wave US flags, and sing Alleluia, that's what the students should expect to put up with, unless they want to drop the course or fail.

somebody in authority is deciding which opinions are acceptable and which are not, and that is a step on the road to totalitarianism.
Given that it's been demonstrated that the tosspot can come out with as much gay bashing fundamentalist drivel as he wants, that barely qualifies as a strawman, I'm afraid.

somebody in authority is deciding which opinions are acceptable and which are not, and that is a step on the road to totalitarianism.

So, the traditional family is a step on the road to totalitarianism?

If you want your personal rights protected, you have to allow others their personal right to be a moron.

That sounds fair enough, to be honest. This guy wasn't restraining his argument to a reasonable context for disagreeing with a lecturer, though.

He doesn't need to. He was not being mandated into the course by the school, or required to attend the movie. He was emailed the invitation be a professor [outside of this professors class], and responded in such a manner.

So, the traditional family is a step on the road to totalitarianism?
Well haven't you ever heard of patriarchy.;)

He doesn't need to. He was not being mandated into the course by the school, or required to attend the movie. He was emailed the invitation be a professor [outside of this professors class], and responded in such a manner.
In which case a punch in the nose would likely have been a more appropiate response than sending him a disciplinary letter, it's true.

Non discriminatory and tolerant policies are in place to prevent administrations from excluding, punishing, or limiting people based on their gender, culture, ideology, etc., not to limit individual's expression or ideology.

If you want your personal rights protected, you have to allow others their personal right to be a moron.
LOL! :D

Non discriminatory and tolerant policies are in place to prevent administrations from excluding, punishing, or limiting people based on their gender, culture, ideology, etc., not to limit individual's expression or ideology.
No, they may exist for that ideal, but in most practical applications, they are used to enforce the administration's view of political correctness.

It's politically correct to hammer someone for a religious view that espouses the idea that homosexuality is bad.

That said, the student should have known that the school was teaching a great many things that contradicted his world view - and he should have gone to another school.

Trans-human']Well haven't you ever heard of patriarchy.;)
The traditional family is a "patriarchy??" :eek:

You've obviously never participated in the processes of an egalitarian family structure. :p

Non discriminatory and tolerant policies are in place to prevent administrations from excluding, punishing, or limiting people based on their gender, culture, ideology, etc., not to limit individual's expression or ideology.

Very well stated...

The traditional family is a "patriarchy??" :eek:

You've obviously never participated in the processes of an egalitarian family structure. :p
The ''traditional'' family hasn't been really traditional in a long time. What, with those uppity women wanting to vote and receive equal wages. It's a crying shame.:D

Jihad Danie

I have nothing to say except that this man did not make a very wise choice in Muslim names.

Jihad Daniel? It almost sounds like a cartoon character name.

Hi, kids! I'm Jihad Daniel! Today we're going to learn how to field strip an AK-47! (circus music plays in background)

Hi, kids! I'm Jihad Daniel! Today we're going to learn how to field strip an AK-47! (circus music plays in background)
During the test, the music changes to the Jeopardy final question theme...

Jihad Daniel, a 63-year-old graduate student and computer technician who is a convert to Islam, Sorry, this just popped out at me....if you're going to convert to Islam...would YOU choose such a...loaded name? Jihad???:p

Sorry, this just popped out at me....if you're going to convert to Islam...would YOU choose such a...loaded name? Jihad???:p

Ok good ... I wasn't alone in that. :D

Ok good ... I wasn't alone in that. :D
It's like converting to Christianty and calling yourself Holy Crusade Jones.

It's like converting to Christianty and calling yourself Holy Crusade Jones.

ROFL! If I ever become Christian, that's gonna be my name.

ROFL! If I ever become Christian, that's gonna be my name.
You've been Jewish, Muslim...

you need to do the Sikh thing, some Zen Buddhism, and then be a born again Christian.

You've been Jewish, Muslim...

Still Jewish. It's a cultural identity, not a religion. Before I embraced Islam, I was Buddhist.

Still Jewish. It's a cultural identity, not a religion. Before I embraced Islam, I was Buddhist.
Then get on with the Sikh thing. I'm doing the born again Christian thing right now, and the music is pretty good on Sundays.

Then get on with the Sikh thing. I'm doing the born again Christian thing right now, and the music is pretty good on Sundays.

Hey! I get to wear a turban and carry a knife if I'm Sikh, don't I? Sweeeet.

With a name like Jihad, how does he not end up in Git-R-Done-Mo?

With a name like Jihad, how does he not end up in Git-R-Done-Mo?

To anyone outside of the US who hasn't lived here for a while, and especially if they are from Canada or the EU, the US is a place where Rosa Parks still sits in the back of the bus, blacks are rioting in the street every day, school children are gunning down their classmates at a rate that would make an Iraqi insurgent feel proud, Muslims are hanging from street lamps, and Republican fat cats drive up and down the street in their limos, pointing out Democrats to be arrested by the secret police. Meanwhile, members of MoveOn hide in their basement, and communicate with the outside world via the Internet, which is monitored by the NSA.