NationStates Jolt Archive

Everyone is sooo fracking concerned with their "rights." FRACK that! Talk to me about fulfilling your responsibilities as a member of your family, toward any children you might have or father, your community, your nation, the earth, the human race, etc. Then ... and only then ... MIGHT I grant you a degree of credibility.

The two go hand in hand. With rights come responsibilities and vice versa. Any discussion of rights is also a discussion of responsibilities (although some don't like to think so).

Yup, any choice or right bears responsibility. That's why I'm not fond of having a child at this moment. I know that I'm not up to that responsibility yet.

*refuses to talk to Eut, unless it's body language*

I agree.

My particular 'rant and rave' trigger is people who refuse to recognize their responsibility as citizens to respect/support/serve in our military.

Elicere.

I agree.

My particular 'rant and rave' trigger is people who refuse to recognize their responsibility as citizens to respect/support/serve in our military.

Elicere.

You and Eut are going to get along swimmingly.... =)

If you have rules that say you have to respect, support and serve in the military , are you a free people?

Responsibility != rules

I think a person has a responsibility to carry to term any pregnancy she can safely carry and a man has a responsibility to take care of any child he fathers, but I am not advocating making rules (aka laws) that state this.

In a country that advocates freedom, there are going to be many responsibilities that aren't placed into law because not everyone agrees with them.

I agree.

My particular 'rant and rave' trigger is people who refuse to recognize their responsibility as citizens to respect/support/serve in our military.

Elicere.

The military should serve the country and the interests of the country. However, they're controlled by politics (unfortunately) and I honestly do not believe that some of the political choices are in the best interests of the country. And I'm talking about any country here, because politics in every country is the same crap. That's one valid reason for me not to serve in the army, because it doesn't necessarily serve my country. And luckily for me I don't have to :D I will however fight until death (and beyond) when my country (or my way of living) is being invaded or really threatened.

Everyone is sooo fracking concerned with their "rights." FRACK that! Talk to me about fulfilling your responsibilities as a member of your family, toward any children you might have or father, your community, your nation, the earth, the human race, etc. Then ... and only then ... MIGHT I grant you a degree of credibility. Would you like to take a look at my signature?

To me, the word "rights" sounds like something a pissed-up 14 year old chav at the jail cell would say. Although I like the organisation Liberty (http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/). Guess I'm a walking paradox. :)

If you have rules that say you have to respect, support and serve in the military , are you a free people?

Nope.

I don't think we should have such rules.

Which doesn't change the fact (or what is my opinion the fact) that as citizens of our nation we have the responsibility to respect and support those who serve in our military, and to (if physically able) serve ourselves in times of need.

What constitutes a time of need being of course, open to debate. ;)

Elicere

My how condescending of you. :rolleyes:

My how passive-aggressive of you.

If you have rules that say you have to respect, support and serve in the military , are you a free people?Depends on whether it are rules of laws thrust upon you by a government, or morals rules you hold yourself to, or moral laws thrust upon you by society.

I find irresponsibility disgusting. People annoy me when they refuse to take proper actions, and then balk at the consequences of thier own mistakes.

You don't see me on here whining about it though do you?






oh, wait..............uh........my bad.....................:( :p

I agree.

My particular 'rant and rave' trigger is people who refuse to recognize their responsibility as citizens to respect/support/serve in our military.

Elicere.

Frankly, I dont believe anyone anywhere has a responsability to serve in anyones millitary. Nor do they have to support it. I believe it is wrong to disrespect the courage, bravery and deaths of those who died in previous wars. But I dont believe that means that you have to serve in the army now. In Britain the millitary service is purely volentary

Frankly, I dont believe anyone anywhere has a responsability to serve in anyones millitary
I don't either. The last person I'd want with me in combat is a natural born hands-upper.

Yup, any choice or right bears responsibility. That's why I'm not fond of having a child at this moment. I know that I'm not up to that responsibility yet.
Good for you. Very wise and mature of you. :)

Everyone is sooo fracking concerned with their "rights." FRACK that! Talk to me about fulfilling your responsibilities as a member of your family, toward any children you might have or father, your community, your nation, the earth, the human race, etc. Then ... and only then ... MIGHT I grant you a degree of credibility.

You cannot discuss responsibility without first discussing rights. All responsibility is contingent on freedom.

*refuses to talk to Eut, unless it's body language*
[ gestures obscenely at Fass ] :D

I agree.

My particular 'rant and rave' trigger is people who refuse to recognize their responsibility as citizens to respect/support/serve in our military.

Elicere.
:)

[ gestures obscenely at Fass ] :D

God, I hope that was a middle finger.

EDIT: Nevermind, there are no more good mental pictures possible.

[ gestures obscenely at Fass ] :D

*licks what was gestured with suggestively*

Responsibility != rules

I think a person has a responsibility to carry to term any pregnancy she can safely carry and a man has a responsibility to take care of any child he fathers, but I am not advocating making rules (aka laws) that state this.

In a country that advocates freedom, there are going to be many responsibilities that aren't placed into law because not everyone agrees with them.
I strongly disagee with this. As a matter of fact, I would love to see the Constitution amended to include a "Bill of Responsibilities" to be a companion to the Bill of Rights.

How do you come up with a Bill of Responsibilities that doesn't rely heavily on a morality, or a cultural setting? What are the self evident responsibilities?

I'm not against the idea, I just don't know how you'd start to conceptualise something like 'responsibilities'.

My how passive-aggressive of you.
Um ... did you and Black Forest have words before you fell out? :p

I find irresponsibility disgusting. People annoy me when they refuse to take proper actions, and then balk at the consequences of thier own mistakes.

You don't see me on here whining about it though do you?

oh, wait..............uh........my bad.....................:( :p
[ spanks Smunkeeville ] :p

*licks what was gestured with suggestively*
Ewww! [ wipes off his big toe ] :D

Um ... did you and Black Forest have words before you fell out? :p

I don't think we were ever in.

Elgesh']How do you come up with a Bill of Responsibilities that doesn't rely heavily on a morality, or a cultural setting? What are the self evident responsibilities?

I'm not against the idea, I just don't know how you'd start to conceptualise something like 'responsibilities'.
Me either ... yet! [ film at eleven! ] :)

Ewww! [ wipes off his big toe ] :D

Ooh, that's hot, if I close my eyes and forget it's attached to a foot.

I strongly disagee with this. As a matter of fact, I would love to see the Constitution amended to include a "Bill of Responsibilities" to be a companion to the Bill of Rights.

I didn't say that *no* responsibility would be made into law. There are all sorts of responsibilities in the law that a citizen must live up to (or face legal penalties). I said there would be responsibilities that many take on voluntarily - and think everyone should take on - that wouldn't be made into law.

Last I checked, you aren't advocating forcing a woman to carry to term because it is her responsibility either. I think it is her responsibility - and that those who have sex should take on that responsibility - to continue any pregnancy that results to term and to take care of the resulting child. However, I am not advocating putting that into law. Are you?

Everyone is sooo fracking concerned with their "rights." FRACK that! Talk to me about fulfilling your responsibilities as a member of your family, toward any children you might have or father, your community, your nation, the earth, the human race, etc. Then ... and only then ... MIGHT I grant you a degree of credibility.
I totally agree.

I don't think we were ever in.
ROFL! Touche! :D

[ spanks Smunkeeville ] :p
you know if you want the right to spank me, then you must assume the responsibilities that come with it.

I will be expecting my support payment of no less than $45,000 and plus other expenses needed (pedicures, spa days, unlimited dvd purchases,ect.)


come on Mr. Responsibility............where's my $$?:cool:

Ooh, that's hot, if I close my eyes and forget it's attached to a foot.
You're incorrigable!

BTW ... I have athelte's foot too. :D

you know if you want the right to spank me, then you must assume the responsibilities that come with it.

I will be expecting my support payment of no less than $45,000 and plus other expenses needed (pedicures, spa days, unlimited dvd purchases,ect.)

come on Mr. Responsibility............where's my $$?:cool:
[ runs away ] :D

You're incorrigable!

BTW ... I have athelte's foot too. :D

No biggie. I like moldy cheese.

Join the Mobile Infantry and save the Galaxy.
Service guarantees citizenship.

Would you like to know more? (http://www.dod.gov/)

I didn't say that *no* responsibility would be made into law. There are all sorts of responsibilities in the law that a citizen must live up to (or face legal penalties). I said there would be responsibilities that many take on voluntarily - and think everyone should take on - that wouldn't be made into law.

Last I checked, you aren't advocating forcing a woman to carry to term because it is her responsibility either. I think it is her responsibility - and that those who have sex should take on that responsibility - to continue any pregnancy that results to term and to take care of the resulting child. However, I am not advocating putting that into law. Are you?
Nope! :p

Join the Mobile Infantry and save the Galaxy.
Service guarantees citizenship.

Would you like to know more? (http://www.dod.gov/)
I enjoyed Starship Troopers. Interesting concept. :)

I totally agree.
Thank you. :)

you know if you want the right to spank me, then you must assume the responsibilities that come with it.

I will be expecting my support payment of no less than $45,000 and plus other expenses needed (pedicures, spa days, unlimited dvd purchases,ect.)


come on Mr. Responsibility............where's my $$?:cool: You're proportionally imbalancing your rights with regards to your responsibilities. Ten points docked.

Everyone is sooo fracking concerned with their "rights." FRACK that! Talk to me about fulfilling your responsibilities as a member of your family, toward any children you might have or father, your community, your nation, the earth, the human race, etc. Then ... and only then ... MIGHT I grant you a degree of credibility.
Dude...you are so cool, hahah I just got back from working out and saw "FRAK!" hahaha ok so I agree with you as well, which means I need to stfu about my rights and liberties. But still, this thread makes me laugh. Big up to BSG

No biggie. I like moldy cheese.
Fass ... you are one sick lil puppy! Tsk! Heh!

Fass ... you are one sick lil puppy! Tsk! Heh!

You seem surprised.

You're proportionally imbalancing your rights with regards to your responsibilities. Ten points docked.
Oh? and how do you assing such values?

(this is part of the reason we do not have many codefied responsibilities)

Universal rights are responsibilities. For example, I have the right to education. So does Bob. So I have a responsibility not to interfere with Bobs right to an education. See?

Anyway, what brought this on?

Dude...you are so cool, hahah I just got back from working out and saw "FRAK!" hahaha ok so I agree with you as well, which means I need to stfu about my rights and liberties. But still, this thread makes me laugh. Big up to BSG
LOL! TY! I was a bit ... miffed! :D

BTW ... WTF does "Big up to BSG" mean?? :confused:

Everyone is sooo fracking concerned with their "rights." FRACK that! Talk to me about fulfilling your responsibilities as a member of your family, toward any children you might have or father, your community, your nation, the earth, the human race, etc. Then ... and only then ... MIGHT I grant you a degree of credibility.

My duty to humanity in general is to practice respect, to sacrifice to help others in need, to stand up for the little man, to act morally and to speak for what is right. I have a duty to do something constructive in my world(as opposed to destructive). I have a duty to do as little harm as possible to my fellow man, and respect his rights.

My duty as a citizen of a polity, even whem I may disagree with that polity, is to pay my taxes, not commit crime or treason, and not sow sedition. These duties are subject to my greater duties humanity in general. If doing what is right demands, for example, that I commit treason - then the duty to mankind outweighs my duty to a polity.

If/When I have a family of my own, my duty will be to love them and support them in all that they do; to help them be safe and fulfilled.

I have a duty to myself to live according to my beliefs. I have a duty to better and improve myself.

Those are my duties(even though in my philosophy, natural rights are the base of human action, not natural duties. Duties arise from rights that individuals hold. But that's a tangent for another day.)

Does that answer your question, Mr. Horn?:)

You seem surprised.
No. Not really. Just thought that needed saying. :D

Elgesh']How do you come up with a Bill of Responsibilities that doesn't rely heavily on a morality, or a cultural setting? What are the self evident responsibilities?

I'm not against the idea, I just don't know how you'd start to conceptualise something like 'responsibilities'.

Well, a place to start might be the naturalization oath (http://uscis.gov/graphics/aboutus/history/teacher/oath.htm).... I know that it's the starting point for a lot of my thinking about the responsibilities of citizenship.

I do not think that we need anything such as a 'Bill of Responsibilities' in the Constitution, however. The standard mechanisms of law seem sufficient to me for such legislation. If such legislation is appropriate, which I am not at all sure about.

You do bring up the interesting question of 'At what point does irresponsibility become criminality?' Maybe a topic for another thread?

Elicere

No. Not really. Just thought that needed saying. :D

You do have a knack for stating the obvious, I'll grant you that.

I agree.

My particular 'rant and rave' trigger is people who refuse to recognize their responsibility as citizens to respect/support/serve in our military.

Elicere.
I support my country's military, but what about pacifists (they're mostly idiots, but still)? Surely they are not expected to show such support?

I also think that people should support public education and health services, as they are just as vital to national survival as the military. Do you agree, Elicere?

And luckily for me I don't have to :D I will however fight until death (and beyond) when my country (or my way of living) is being invaded or really threatened.
Beyond death? Those dastardly invaders are going to get such a haunting!

Universal rights are responsibilities. For example, I have the right to education. So does Bob. So I have a responsibility not to interfere with Bobs right to an education. See?

Anyway, what brought this on?
I just had it up to here with everyone always carrying on about "my rights" this and "my right to do" that. After awhile, it makes me rather ... bilious! Heh!

I just had it up to here with everyone always carrying on about "my rights" this and "my right to do" that. After awhile, it makes me rather ... bilious! Heh!What got you so pissed?

My duty to humanity in general is to practice respect, to sacrifice to help others in need, to stand up for the little man, to act morally and to speak for what is right. I have a duty to do something constructive in my world(as opposed to destructive). I have a duty to do as little harm as possible to my fellow man, and respect his rights.

My duty as a citizen of a polity, even whem I may disagree with that polity, is to pay my taxes, not commit crime or treason, and not sow sedition. These duties are subject to my greater duties humanity in general. If doing what is right demands, for example, that I commit treason - then the duty to mankind outweighs my duty to a polity.

If/When I have a family of my own, my duty will be to love them and support them in all that they do; to help them be safe and fulfilled.

I have a duty to myself to live according to my beliefs. I have a duty to better and improve myself.

Those are my duties(even though in my philosophy, natural rights are the base of human action, not natural duties. Duties arise from rights that individuals hold. But that's a tangent for another day.)

Does that answer your question, Mr. Horn?:)
To a degree, yes. I tend to agree that there are "natural rights," but a constant emphasis on "rights" tends to draw attention away from responsibilities, which ( in my philosophy ) are just as important and do not arise from "rights."

What got you so pissed?
"Pissed" is a bit too strong a term. "Agitated" would be more descriptive of my state of mind. No one thing got me agitated, just an accumulation of stuff. :)

Universal rights are responsibilities. For example, I have the right to education. So does Bob. So I have a responsibility not to interfere with Bobs right to an education. See?

Exactly.

I support my country's military, but what about pacifists (they're mostly idiots, but still)? Surely they are not expected to show such support?

I also think that people should support public education and health services, as they are just as vital to national survival as the military. Do you agree, Elicere?



I do agree re: public education, and health services. It's just that it's the military one that gets me ranting. ;) I sort of figured that mentioning the worst of my pet peeves was sufficient.

I don't that pacifism should bar one from *supporting* those who serve in the military, though it would certainly keep one actively participating in military service. Take the Red Cross bandage rolling drives during World War II -- I can't imagine that a pacifist would refuse to participate in such volunteer work, and certainly I would consider that 'supporting' our military.

Elicere

Nope! :p

I didn't think so!

Ok, so, uh, seriously, where was the disagreement again?

I feel that if someone wants to be a pacifist, indifferent, or even a traitor, that's their choice, and they're welcome to it, as long as they know what they're buying into.

Having served in the infantry, I don't want anyone in the service who doesn't want to be there.

I support my country's military, but what about pacifists (they're mostly idiots, but still)? Surely they are not expected to show such support?

I also think that people should support public education and health services, as they are just as vital to national survival as the military. Do you agree, Elicere?


Beyond death? Those dastardly invaders are going to get such a haunting!
Just love the idiot generalization … you know it speaks highly of your ability to reason and compose yourself in a debate. :rolleyes:

You do have a knack for stating the obvious, I'll grant you that.
Ouch! [ grimaces ]

[ runs away ] :D
smart move. ;) Luckily for me my husband wasn't so quick to run:D

Beyond death? Those dastardly invaders are going to get such a haunting!


Hehe :D

Actually, I was thinking along the lines that the pen is mightier than the sword (and the use of one doesn't exclude the use of the other). So in such a case I hope I'll be able and courageous enough to stand up and give my ideas and thoughts a place in the huge world. And that my ideas and thoughts will survive my death... But now I'm just rambling :p

You're proportionally imbalancing your rights with regards to your responsibilities. Ten points docked.
not true. The rights with regards to responsibilities thing is highly subjective.

In my world if you want to have physical contact with me at all, you have to marry me, and if you marry me then you are expected to support me in the manner at which I am accustomed. Besides I gave Eut a discount :p

To a degree, yes. I tend to agree that there are "natural rights," but a constant emphasis on "rights" tends to draw attention away from responsibilities, which ( in my philosophy ) are just as important and do not arise from "rights."

Rights and Responsibilities are two sides of the same coin, now that I'm thinking about it.

A duty arises from someone/thing else having a right to it. One without the other simply doesn't make sense.

Take the Right to Life. If we say that all human beings have an inalienable, universal right to life, then all of mankind has a duty to preserve and defend all of mankind's right to life. An individual's right to life gives rise to the duty in other indiviudals to respect and preserve that right. As such, IMHO we all have the responsibilityto not commit murder, to defend innocents, to oppose the death penalty and prevent the loss of life through economic deprivation.

Without the right, the responsibility could not exist, but without the responsiblity, it could not be a right in the true sense of the word.

So, how's about it? Do I get some of that credibililty you were promising in your original post? eh? eh? :p

I do agree re: public education, and health services. It's just that it's the military one that gets me ranting. ;) I sort of figured that mentioning the worst of my pet peeves was sufficient.

I don't that pacifism should bar one from *supporting* those who serve in the military, though it would certainly keep one actively participating in military service. Take the Red Cross bandage rolling drives during World War II -- I can't imagine that a pacifist would refuse to participate in such volunteer work, and certainly I would consider that 'supporting' our military.

It's good to encounter such a reasonable poster! Have you served?

Just love the idiot generalization … you know it speaks highly of your ability to reason and compose yourself in a debate. :rolleyes:
I said "mostly". That 'generalisation' is based mostly on personal experience, so the evidence is anecdotal.

Just so we're clear on the meaning of pacifism, I take it to mean someone who opposes all war. I don't think that anyone is an idiot for opposing [insert specific war], but I think that opposing all war and fighting is a really flawed concept. In my experience, most of the people who hold such beliefs have not really thought them through.

I strongly disagee with this. As a matter of fact, I would love to see the Constitution amended to include a "Bill of Responsibilities" to be a companion to the Bill of Rights.

While you can grant rights, you cannot enforce responsibility just as you cannot enforce respect. If it's done because of coercion then it's not responsibility.

smart move. ;) Luckily for me my husband wasn't so quick to run:D
LOL! Tsk! Some would call that "entrapment!" :D

LOL! Tsk! Some would call that "entrapment!" :D
hey, he fully knew what he was getting into.........

While you can grant rights, you cannot enforce responsibility just as you cannot enforce respect. If it's done because of coercion then it's not responsibility.
Of course you can enforce responsibility! Otherwise NO ONE would pay income tax! :p

hey, he fully knew what he was getting into.........
Um ... [ wonders if he should say what first popped into his mind! ] :D

Of course you can enforce responsibility! Otherwise NO ONE would pay income tax! :p
yeah, I think the point was "are they being responsible then, or are they just doing it to stay out of trouble?"

It means more to me when my kids pick up thier toys on thier own then when I have to threaten them, if they do it without being told, then they are being responsible, if they have to get yelled at or threatened (no computer time) then they are picking up toys out of fear.

Um ... wonders if he should say what first popped into his mind!
I am going to guess ..........no, not a good idea............:p

Of course you can enforce responsibility! Otherwise NO ONE would pay income tax! :p

Isn't it part of responsibility to be a free conscious decision? I can accept responsibility for something, but I cannot be forced to be. If I'm forced, I'm merely being obedient and not acting out of responsibility.

It's good to encounter such a reasonable poster! Have you served?


Thank you for the compliment. We'll have to wait and see if the opinion lasts though... ;)

I've not served. I don't meet the medical standards for enlistment, due temporal lobe epilepsy.

Elicere

Isn't it part of responsibility to be a free conscious decision? I can accept responsibility for something, but I cannot be forced to be. If I'm forced, I'm merely being obedient and not acting out of responsibility.
yeah, that's what I was trying to say. ;)

yeah, I think the point was "are they being responsible then, or are they just doing it to stay out of trouble?"

It means more to me when my kids pick up thier toys on thier own then when I have to threaten them, if they do it without being told, then they are being responsible, if they have to get yelled at or threatened (no computer time) then they are picking up toys out of fear.

I am going to guess ..........no, not a good idea............:p
ROFLMAO!!! Wise woman, you are. :D

Good point. Is "enforced responsibility" truly any sort of responsibility at all?

Rights and Responsibilities are two sides of the same coin, now that I'm thinking about it.

A duty arises from someone/thing else having a right to it. One without the other simply doesn't make sense.

Take the Right to Life. If we say that all human beings have an inalienable, universal right to life, then all of mankind has a duty to preserve and defend all of mankind's right to life. An individual's right to life gives rise to the duty in other indiviudals to respect and preserve that right. As such, IMHO we all have the responsibilityto not commit murder, to defend innocents, to oppose the death penalty and prevent the loss of life through economic deprivation.

Without the right, the responsibility could not exist, but without the responsiblity, it could not be a right in the true sense of the word.

So, how's about it? Do I get some of that credibililty you were promising in your original post? eh? eh? :p
Rise! You are now Darth-Kroisistan. Go, and be responsible! :D

I strongly disagee with this. As a matter of fact, I would love to see the Constitution amended to include a "Bill of Responsibilities" to be a companion to the Bill of Rights.
Much as I hate to agree with neocon boy, he's dead right that people who are incapable of looking after or raising kids have no business having any, and insisting otherwise is laughable bullshit.

Thank you for the compliment. We'll have to wait and see if the opinion lasts though... ;)

Why, are you a former NS poster who got deleted but is now "back from the dead", as it were? Cos I am! I wonder if you can guess who I am.

Much as I hate to agree with neocon boy...
Don't forget that he's a hypocrite!

Why, are you a former NS poster who got deleted but is now "back from the dead", as it were? Cos I am! I wonder if you can guess who I am.


*chuckling*

Nope -- this is my first and only incarnation on the boards...... so I've got no means at all of guessing what your previous incarnation(s?) might have been.

Elicere

[edited for grammar - you're drives me up a wall]

Why, are you a former NS poster who got deleted but is now "back from the dead", as it were? Cos I am! I wonder if you can guess who I am.


Don't forget that he's a hypocrite!
He has a kid or two in borstal?

Rise! You are now Darth-Kroisistan. Go, and be responsible! :D

What are you now, Darth Eutrusca, the Sith Lord of NS General?

I may however be forced to put that in my sig. It's not often that I'm recruited to the Dark Side of the Force.:p

I have a responsibility as a citizen and moral human being to secure the rights of everyone. :D

Everyone is sooo fracking concerned with their "rights." FRACK that! Talk to me about fulfilling your responsibilities as a member of your family, toward any children you might have or father, your community, your nation, the earth, the human race, etc. Then ... and only then ... MIGHT I grant you a degree of credibility.

What does one have to do with another? Seriously, I'm asking here, because I'm not quite sure what you mean, and how the two tie together at all.

Some of you might want to jump down my throat about this, but allow me to pose a thought experiment: Suppose we have some guy named Cletus. Cletus lives in the hills of West Virginia alone, and has little or no contact with the outside world. He lives on his own, gets no support, has no job, but is able to make, however crude, a living off the land and hunting the animals on it. So what would we say about his rights and responsibilities?

Clearly, that there doesn't seem to be much connect between the two: I can see no clear justification for why he ought to support the government. It does nothing to help him, it gets by with the services it does provide just as well without the possum he could spare, Cletus is not an active participant in the political process, and any attempt he did make would likely just make him part of the same low-income support system people who usually start jabbering about "responsibilities" don't like. Yet clearly, he still has rights, simply because he is a rational being. He is still fully entitled to life, liberty, and property, even if his state-of-nature type existence does not allow him to live it fully.

So what does Cletus show us? Well, primarily that rights and responsibilities are two different things, and come from two different places. Rights are inherent to the individual, and are a function purely of the rational faculty to which even the least of men has some component of. Responsibilities are purely contingent upon the degree to which 1) you support civic society, and 2) you are interconnected with civic society. So the idea that you aren't going to even talk about rights until someone shows how responsible they are is in my view a preposterous notion. Rights aren't contingent upon someone's willingness to kowtow to societies whims; they are intrinsic to the individual. If so, then rights ought to be addressed first, since any discussion of whether a society ought to be obeyed or should engender a civic society is entirely dependent upon the degree to which society is willing to allow us to keep our natural rights.

Everyone is sooo fracking concerned with their "rights." FRACK that! Talk to me about fulfilling your responsibilities as a member of your family, toward any children you might have or father, your community, your nation, the earth, the human race, etc. Then ... and only then ... MIGHT I grant you a degree of credibility.

Who chooses responsibility? Who has the right to delegate it on another person? Why are resposibilities more important than rights. You only HAVE resposibilities because you choose them.

Rights are more important because you don't have a single responsibility til you take it on by free choice.

Slightly less elegant than "Ask not what your country can do for you...", but I'm gonna guess given the time Kennedy couldn't have got very far using 'Frack' in a speech...

Much as I hate to agree with neocon boy, he's dead right that people who are incapable of looking after or raising kids have no business having any, and insisting otherwise is laughable bullshit.
This is a hard line to draw, and even with that we do draw it. Children can be taken away from neglegent parents, but such a process itself is wrought with difficulties...

Everyone is sooo fracking concerned with their "rights." FRACK that! Talk to me about fulfilling your responsibilities as a member of your family, toward any children you might have or father, your community, your nation, the earth, the human race, etc. Then ... and only then ... MIGHT I grant you a degree of credibility.
What exactly are these responsibilites? Why do they override my free choice? Did I choose these responsibilites, or were they imposed upon me by outside forces?

This is a hard line to draw, and even with that we do draw it. Children can be taken away from neglegent parents, but such a process itself is wrought with difficulties...
You've missed my point: I was talking about birth control. Ever noticed that the fundamentalists complaining about that are normally the same ones bemoaning the disintegration of the traditional family? There's a reason the two go together: overpopulation.

Everyone is sooo fracking concerned with their "rights." FRACK that! Talk to me about fulfilling your responsibilities as a member of your family, toward any children you might have or father, your community, your nation, the earth, the human race, etc. Then ... and only then ... MIGHT I grant you a degree of credibility.

Can't help but think this is at least partially directed at me. A little about myself. I am a loyal husband of six years and the father of two children. My two year old is developing the sweetest personality so I feel I am doing a good job raising him witht the right morals. My other is a month and a half and I do more than my fair share taking care of her - taking nighttime feedings and even working from home this week as her primary caretaker (why I have so much time to post). They know I love them because I tell them at least ten times a day and shower them with hugs and kisses. I work for a mortgage company and all I have to do is hear a little bit of a sob story and I am giving away the farm. I have been the subject of complaint by my regional boss for never charging application fees. A member of my local Rotary since 2002 and I have spearheaded collection bins around my town for the families of troops, a program where we give dictionaries out each year and developed a raffle type fund raiser to raise money for our Gift of Life program where we give foreign children (any US citizen will get the surgery if needed regardless of ability to pay) life saving surgery at no charge to them ($25 if anyone wants one). I can list more but this is sounding pretentious. I can also make a long list of faults but overall I feel I do more good than harm to the world. I am just defending myself as my two major threads have revolved around our rights. Did I gain credibility? Am I qualified? By the way, what make this country great is that even if I did none of these things - I am still able to voice my opinions loudy anyway. A couch potato still has freedom of speech. How about you, why are you so credible?

What would your Bill of responsibilities be, and how can someone have responsibilities without rights? Also what are rights for then?

Everyone is sooo fracking concerned with their "rights." FRACK that! Talk to me about fulfilling your responsibilities as a member of your family, toward any children you might have or father, your community, your nation, the earth, the human race, etc. Then ... and only then ... MIGHT I grant you a degree of credibility.


Eut, please dont take offense to this, but sometimes when you post something like this, I cant help but think youre insane.

You of all people, should be adamant that individuals RECIEVE those rights.
You fought in a war, to preserve those very things.
You swore an oath to defend the Constitution, wich explicity states a few things we call "unalienable rights".

This kind of thing is far beneath you, and you know it.
Its something a Fascist would say.

Eut, please dont take offense to this, but sometimes when you post something like this, I cant help but think youre insane.

You of all people, should be adamant that individuals RECIEVE those rights.
You fought in a war, to preserve those very things.
You swore an oath to defend the Constitution, wich explicity states a few things we call "unalienable rights".

This kind of thing is far beneath you, and you know it.
Its something a Fascist would say.

Bravo

Everyone is sooo fracking concerned with their "rights." FRACK that! Talk to me about fulfilling your responsibilities as a member of your family, toward any children you might have or father, your community, your nation, the earth, the human race, etc. Then ... and only then ... MIGHT I grant you a degree of credibility.
I probably wouldn't get credibility in your eyes, then. But on the other hand, I don't think in terms of 'rights' either.