NationStates Jolt Archive

If you actually had the power to set up a legitimate government over a large population what would you do? (Assume this is possible without someone knocking you out or something first)

Can you honestly say you would not set up a dictatorship? I have ideas, as do all of you as to how a country should run. Even though they are somewhat liberal ideas I can't say I really trust all the morons of the world to govern themselves if I had the opportunity. I feel I could be fair and decide the issues myself(giving some tasks to trusted individuals to run at my discretion). Basically, could you give the power to the people and become as equally powerless as them? Or eventually have it possible to have them elect someone over you who you don't agree with?

My point is I think we all support democracy because we don't have power. We don't want one person to decide for us even if they can do it better than we can.

I'd definately set up a dictatorship for my lifetime, but I'd probably spend a good amount of time making sure no one after me could possibly garner that kind of power ever again. Frankly, I don't trust the lot of you bastards [ie, other people] any farther than I can throw you.

Most likely. Because when you think about it, that's what we all are over our little Nationstates. Mainly because they lack any AI that would dictate what course the people would take without your intervention....

True - Ive got it all planned out inmy head.

I'd bring back corporal and capital punishment, not to mention castration for rapists/paedophiles and hands chopped off for muggers/theives lol.

In my country thered be a lot of spare body parts flying around

Very, very rarely, there's somebody with strength enough to resist the lure of dictatorship- George Washington, for example. I like to think that I fit into this category- that, after a short stint as dictator as a new constitution is drafted, I'd allow democratic elections to be held. I'd still support my own beliefs, of course, and try to have them implemented, but if I fail... eh, c'est la vie.

True - Ive got it all planned out inmy head.

I'd bring back corporal and capital punishment, not to mention castration for rapists/paedophiles and hands chopped off for muggers/theives lol.

In my country thered be a lot of spare body parts flying around


What a health care system!!!! negligable transplant waiting lists!

exactly - and no risk of reoffending, practically a utopia lol

Totally dictatorship... and to continue it, I'd probably try to pick a successor... although a good chance at it not being my kid.

ohmygod no. if it were up to me id find a way to push power off on the people and take a purely ceremonial role that was very highly compensated.

i could never take the stress of running a whole country all on my own.

well yes, I mean you don't run the country on your own. You surround yourself with people you trust, and who you can fire when they screw things up. So you have oversight, but don't have to do everything yourself. There's no way one person could do it all.

Very, very rarely, there's somebody with strength enough to resist the lure of dictatorship- George Washington, for example. I like to think that I fit into this category- that, after a short stint as dictator as a new constitution is drafted, I'd allow democratic elections to be held. I'd still support my own beliefs, of course, and try to have them implemented, but if I fail... eh, c'est la vie.

Yes, the American founders are what inspired this thread. When faced with absolute power they did everything possible to give it to the people. (after tempting Washington first) This is something that amazes me on a daily basis. As for the idea of making it so the power goes to the people after my death I guess that depends if I have a suitable heir or not. I would definately try everything I could to keep the values I have instilled from being erroded by either the populace or another leader.

Can you honestly say you would not set up a dictatorship? I have ideas, as do all of you as to how a country should run. Even though they are somewhat liberal ideas I can't say I really trust all the morons of the world to govern themselves if I had the opportunity
I hate to admit it but a dictatorship would be necessary under my rule in order to maintain the state of minarchy. Face it, the people don't know better than to expand their government...on the other hand maybe they do know better

ohmygod no. if it were up to me id find a way to push power off on the people and take a purely ceremonial role that was very highly compensated.

i could never take the stress of running a whole country all on my own.

Ah your lack of self-confidence is depressing. You would just have to be one of my flock I guess. ;)

I would set up a glorious Imperium with me as His Imperial Majesty, Emperor Joshua I, Autocrat and Tyrant of Earth.

My decendants (who will have to be test-tube babies since I am gay) will rule after my death, because after all my blood is the purest in all the universe and things will run so much better if I and My Decendants rule all of Creation.

Trust me!:)

I'd set up a dictatorship, with the most all-pervasive personality cult in history. My photo would be on every billboard, the cover of every school textbook, the sides of buses, in every store window, in every home, etc. It would be compulsory for everyone to wear a button with my picture on it, with the words: "Papa J.L. loves his children very, very much!"

Ah your lack of self-confidence is depressing. You would just have to be one of my flock I guess. ;)
its not lack of confidence is not wanting to spend all my time working

name me queen and limit my duties to openning shopping malls and im all yours.

Oooohhh yeaaah. :D

I'd definately set up a dictatorship for my lifetime, but I'd probably spend a good amount of time making sure no one after me could possibly garner that kind of power ever again. Frankly, I don't trust the lot of you bastards [ie, other people] any farther than I can throw you.
I would do the same thing. There are many things in this culture that I believe should not be argued about. Certain things that the current government of the US does not handle correctly in its jumble of politics. In those instances I would use my power as a dictator.

I believe the best form of government would be a direct democracy (aka no representative democracy which does not actually follow the ideals of the people) with a higher leader that has the ability to disolve disputes and make decisions. Although the democratic will of the people should be used to control many aspects of society, they may also fight against the rights of minority groups or ideas and those minority rights should be protected. This would work well as long as the leader was of the correct capacity to do his job. A major problem is who becomes the successor because the position has so much power. Any person with an ambition to control society differently might have the inclination to remove the democratic portion of the government completely.

Can you honestly say you would not set up a dictatorship?

Yes. Dictatorships always tend to end in a most bloody and unsatisfactory way. If my beliefs are to be successful, it is through the willing participation of the population, not coercion and violence.

I would set up a collectivisim, complete with a central comminucations network in their brain, so kids could basicly have a school day in their sleep. Thoughts of suspected criminals would be monitered by this same chip, and if they remebered doing the crime, they would be arrested and have their memory modifed along with their personality, and other things. No one needs Id badges in that world, an eyepeice tells every bit of information, up to marrige status.

I would set up a collectivisim, complete with a central comminucations network in their brain, so kids could basicly have a school day in their sleep. Thoughts of suspected criminals would be monitered by this same chip, and if they remebered doing the crime, they would be arrested and have their memory modifed along with their personality, and other things. No one needs Id badges in that world, an eyepeice tells every bit of information, up to marrige status.
Good God man, did you learn anything from Orwell? :eek:

Good God man, did you learn anything from Orwell? :eek:


Could you repeat that last word in english?

Could you repeat that last word in english?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Orwell

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four

Could you repeat that last word in english?
...

Well, that explains a lot. I strongly suggest you read 1984 by George Orwell.

Does'nt say anything about microchips in there. In fact, he looks pre-micro era. Or collectivism.

And, they use a gigantic central core, not thought police. (In my collectivism, that is) And, it's more like ants, and beehives. Like that kind of collectivism, they call it Unfication.

It wouldn't be a dictatorship, but rather a corporate feudal state...like Dune. Obviously, it would require a large, if not (inter?)planetary nation to be implemented.

The biggest regional/national/planetary corporations would rule over their territories I give them, which would ultimately belong to a larger corporation which I have the controlling stake in and ultimate authority over. Each corporation would have a certain percentage of the central company's shares, relative to the value of their holdings and their performance, which would then give them proportionate representation on the board of directors who would vote on national policy and political power.

I'd be the emperor, who controls 49% of the voting shares (so if a successor really botches something they can be stopped by a united effort by the vassal corporations). Ideally, the hope is that the vassals would spend so much time fighting each other for influence and shares that they would never consider uniting and overthrowing my rule or that of my successors.

The shares would be valued at a fixed rate proportional to the value of the corporation's holdings, so vassals could sell or purchase shares as a means of generating cash, buying support, etc. There would also be a "class B" set of shares that would be publically traded as normal stock and whose value would affect the fixed price of the Class A shares.

A little too complex?

I'd try a charismatic-Stalinist approach.

get to power on charisma, and keep it with charisma and propaganda, while maintaining the trappings of a traditional democracy.

this would require keeping people happy so they don't question my right to boss them around, build selfglorifying monuments, and invade neighboring countries

No, I would not.

I do not trust myself, or any human being, with that much power.

Nor would I particularly care to have it.

Does'nt say anything about microchips in there. In fact, he looks pre-micro era. Or collectivism.

And, they use a gigantic central core, not thought police. (In my collectivism, that is) And, it's more like ants, and beehives. Like that kind of collectivism, they call it Unfication.
Yes, because we all know that the presence of microchips drastically changes the philosophical undertones of rampant, unchecked collectivism. Please, spare us.

In the meantime, read the damn book!

Of course I'd be runnning a dictatorship. How am I expected to let a bunch of idiots like the rest of humanity screw up the world when I could fix things using the all-encompassing powers of a dictator?

Powers like capital punishment, for example. You steal something, you die. You lie, you die. You try to question the reason for all of the state's executions, you better believe you gonna die!:mp5:

Yes, because we all know that the presence of microchips drastically changes the philosophical undertones of rampant, unchecked collectivism. Please, spare us.

In the meantime, read the damn book!

Whatever that means, HELL NO!

I would set up a collectivisim, complete with a central comminucations network in their brain, so kids could basicly have a school day in their sleep. Thoughts of suspected criminals would be monitered by this same chip, and if they remebered doing the crime, they would be arrested and have their memory modifed along with their personality, and other things. No one needs Id badges in that world, an eyepeice tells every bit of information, up to marrige status.

Not knowing who Orwell is definately weakens your argument. Read We by Yevgeny Zamyatin and The Futurological Congress by Stanislaw Lem in addition to Orwell's 1984, they do some neural modification in those two. They are good books and shorter than 1984 I'm positive you will enjoy them if you actually take the time and educate yourself.

--Note the confusing and really strange beginning of The Futurological Congress, this is due to the fact that it was written under and extremely opressive governmental situation (like you describe) so it needed to seem rediculous to the censors in order to be published considering the commentary it makes.

I'd be really interested to hear what you have to say after you have read those works. So, if you don't cop out and actually read them (trust me you will definately enjoy We and The Futurological Congress) drop me a line and let me know what you thought.

Like Macchiavelli, I would found a republic... precisely because of my ego. If I found a dictatorship or even a kingship, even if I choose my own heir he (or she?) or his heirs will have the power to undo everything I have done.

If I found a republic, with a stable constitution and just laws, the people will remember me forever.

Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

If you actually had the power to set up a legitimate government over a large population what would you do? (Assume this is possible without someone knocking you out or something first)
Dictatorship, all the way!

I used to want to be a dictator but I've changed my mind. After studying history, I have found that dictators are really lonely people. To stay in power they can trust absolutley no one. I couldn't live like that. It would destroy me.

And, it's more like ants, and beehives. Like that kind of collectivism, they call it Unfication.

Ants are not collectivists. Yes, individual ants have specific roles and duties, however, there is no kind of centralized command or control structure; all the "queen" does is lay eggs. Individual ants react to chemical signals left by other individual ants while they carry out their individual role. Put enough ants together, and the complex societal behavior emerges, without any command or control beyond the interaction of individuals.

In short, the anthill better resembles Adam Smith's "Invisible Hand."

This is not a dictatorship.
This is not a dictatorial or despotic regime.
You are living in a free society.
You are living in an open society.
You are living in a democratic society.
You are happy in your free, open and democratic society.
Very happy; you like living in your free, open and democratic society, and do not wish it to change.
You will stop asking questions unless you want a one-way ticket to a special resort centre built in the scenic Australian Desert where large men in nice uniforms will remind you how happy you are in your free, open and democratic society by breaking large rocks into small rocks.
And I am merely a humble functionary.

Rinse and repeat.

And not only have I read 1984, I've written a paper on it.

I would set up a Roman Empire type Government with me at the head. All Hail Bryce. Imperial Power only have it not be an imperial family more like a chosen successor voted in by a puppet senate. Oh Yeah.

I used to be quite sympathetic to a socialist/communist regime, with no thoughts as to whether I was the head or not.

I guess learning to respect other people's views is just another part of maturing. Only an idiot would take complete power and think it was for the good of "the people." A benevelont dictator could run efficiently, but not please everybody.

That said, me as a dictator or parliamentary democracy? I'd take a period of temporary dictatorship and home I wouldn't make it permanent.

ok....so has anyone read dune?if you have you'll know what i'm talking about....a fully self efficient society tha makes decisions more or less collectively,based on strong moral and religious ideals in which the big cheese would be taking into consideration the needs of his people.No person has absolute power....If you can't survive on your own then don't.Fremen society more or less....

If you don't understand what i mean hard cheese on you....:D

ok....so has anyone read dune?if you have you'll know what i'm talking about....a fully self efficient society tha makes decisions more or less collectively,based on strong moral and religious ideals in which the big cheese would be taking into consideration the needs of his people.No person has absolute power....If you can't survive on your own then don't.Fremen society more or less....

If you don't understand what i mean hard cheese on you....:D
I've read it :)

Can you honestly say you would not set up a dictatorship?
Of course I can! I am fully comitted to the concept and practice of democracy. This requires a degree of faith in the ability of people, given adequate information, to decide what is best for themselves. I know just enough to realize that I'm not a font of all wisdom and knowledge.

If you think the only way things are going to be "correct" is if you are in charge, then you're being victimized by your own overweening arrogance and need to learn a bit of humility. :p

'Yes, the American founders are what inspired this thread. When faced with absolute power they did everything possible to give it to the people. (after tempting Washington first) This is something that amazes me on a daily basis. As for the idea of making it so the power goes to the people after my death I guess that depends if I have a suitable heir or not. I would definately try everything I could to keep the values I have instilled from being erroded by either the populace or another leader.'

I doubt the American leaders had a choice, the people had just fought against their home government because they believed it was oppressing them, so it isn't likely they would have tolerated a newer, despotic rule. The 'absolute power' in this case also wasn't very much, a slightly war-torn collection of colonies, with the most powerful empire in the world as its enemy. It was probably more along the lines of delivering what they promised, which was what colonists rose for.

Dictatorship is ultimately what happens if even the most moral person receives power, because often this person will think that because he is moral he is the best candidate for rule.

To be completely truthful, I am too much of a chicken to actually run a dictatorship, I would always be afraid of the threat of revolution.

Dictatorship is ultimately what happens if even the most moral person receives power, because often this person will think that because he is moral he is the best candidate for rule.
This is a very jaundiced view of both politics and people. History is full of examples to the contrary. Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, a dictator, began the process of turning Turkey into a modern, democratic state. Thailand, though a monarchy, began instituting democratic reforms without pressure or intervention. Even the Soviets, although admittedly under economic pressure, began the same process.

To be completely truthful, I am too much of a chicken to actually run a dictatorship, I would always be afraid of the threat of revolution.

That's what secret police are for, my dear. ;)

Yes, thinking about that you're actually quite right. Sulla gave up his dictatorship after restoring the Republic's strength...
Perhaps in reality you can never tell what government you would have because it is a very extreme situation to be put in. I think I'd go for a dictatorship but I'd have to think up a way of choosing competent successors.

That's what secret police are for, my dear. ;)
I don't like secrets, they are too close to lies. Maybe I could have "The Mystery Brigade" that has more of a connotaion of magic and happiness right?

They could wear really mysterious non-indentifying uniforms. :p

Mine would most definately be a dictatorship *rubs hands together with evil glee*
Don't know what I'd do in terms of inheritence though... I suppose I could just blow the country up when I died. That solves the problem, and I never have to lose power! Or just become immortal...

But seriously speaking, I think I could actually do a really good job :p Allow no opposition, any crime punished quickly and efficiently, death penalty for all rapists, tax as low as possible, minimalise wasted spending... it would actually be pretty fun sorting everything out ^^
I'd probably develop even worse trust issues through 0_o Always be looking over my shoulder for snipers... :sniper:

Yes. Dictatorships always tend to end in a most bloody and unsatisfactory way. If my beliefs are to be successful, it is through the willing participation of the population, not coercion and violence.

If you base your idea of a dictatorship on Nazi Germany, then yes they really don't have a happy ending. That has little to do with the fact that it was a dictatorship and much to do with the whole Nazism-superior race concept. I am sure a highly motivated democracy could commit the similar crimes against humanity. Why would a dictatorship have to be based on "coersion and violence" ? People who were loyal to their nation would want my dictatorship, no coersion needed.

I would run a dictatorship with strong socialist ideals (not communist, socialist) putting the common people first, taxing the rich into poverty(or at least to the level of middle class), making many important industries government run, running them not for profit but to serve the population(ie break-even businesses that give profits to the government, not CEOs and shareholders). Me and my select group of assistants would make the decisions and carry them out promptly. One of the main issues that bothers me about current democracy is the time wasted arguing, voting on bills, ect, when acton needs to be taken for the good of a nation. I am sure I have more to say but Im done ranting for now.

It’d have to be a dictatorship, at least at first. I sincerely believe in the principles of democracy but we have eroded them too far. More specifically the original Republican ideals are nice. Free economically independent citizenry, large middle class, and well educated non-partisan voters.

I am not an American but god damn did those founding fathers set up a nice government. The point of my dictatorship would be to force the people into that position, and undo the erosion of the Republican ideals. Liberalism, more specifically neo-liberalism, needs to be replaced.

So in a quick paraphrase, as I am aware it would take a lot more than this but gist is the keyword here.

Step 1:

Redistribute the wealth. While I have no qualms about people being excessively rich it cannot be on the backs of others. We need to bring every single person above the poverty line and the quickest way to do this is to steal from the rich ala Robin Hood. Redistributing land so that the agrarian lifestyle is once again feasible would be nice, as then I would not have to run a welfare state, or continuously steal from the rich. This will mean some people will be isolated from society but that well be dealt with later. Stopping people from dying from starvation and easily prevented diseases is the goal here.

Step 2:

Assess the industrial infrastructure. The goal here is that everyone has access to the most pertinent technology. I don’t mean that my agrarian farmers need to have crop dusting F-22s or anything so foolish. Making sure that they are not contaminating their own ground water with poor irrigation techniques is good enough. While it may seem trite the factories still need to be running, our society functions based on readily available consumer goods and the flow cannot stop. Mass transit lines need to be put in. Let the highways rot, I expect high speed trains to run between every population centre greater than 25,000. These trains will run people and goods. Interconnectivity is key.

Along this line a massive telecommunications backbone needs to be installed. Everyone needs to be able to instantaneously communicate with one another. This should, along with free migration, fix a lot of systemic poverty as people can see where in the world their skills are needed. This should improve government response times, industry efficiency, and most importantly it should aid in the creation of a global consciousness. Hopefully with so much information available people should not be so god damn ignorant.

Step 3:

Universally educate the populace. The standard North American k-12 curriculum can start at age four and end at age seventeen, after this a mandatory induction into the humanities for two years. This will be an introduction to post secondary education. Schooling in all the ethical theories is key, people should know the moral good. No holds barred they should even know that the fact that I am not accountable to them is wrong. All the greats need to be covered, from Plato to Marx, from Machiavelli to Smith. There will be NO talk of religion in anything but philosophy class or history class. The former will discuss the merits of said religion with no preference or bias. The latter will discuss what previous generations of ‘believers’ have done and not touch on the morality of it at all. If anyone goes to far one way or the other imprison them. I am a ruthless dictator after all.

After they know how to be good people, or taught how to be. There is after all no guarantee it will stick, especially in this first generation. People will have the choice of education at a university level. Trades, sciences, further into humanities, classics, and/or anything. People can spend their lives at the academy if they want, the only caveat being that they will eventually be expected to teach and research.

Step 4:

Mass emancipation of the people. Freedom of expression is paramount. Any civil right you can imagine needs to be granted, including economic and cultural rights I.E. the right to live in a constructive community, the right to potable water, the right to enough nutrition to maintain good health, and others. People are interdependent social creations, not bastions of individual rights. A nation is its people, and government is the expression of the will of the nation. When a nation seeks security it needs to be aware of human security as well. With no rival states we may finally be able to nick the argument of limiting individual security for national security. With the Westphalia model gone there is no logic in people being squashed for the greater good.

Step 5:

(The people should be at this time calling for me to be removed.) Draft a constitution making sure that all of the above will be maintained in perpetuity. A bicameral legislature will be drafted, with the Senate being elected from a proportional rep. vote, as this is a unitary state and there are no lower orders of government to represent.

The House of Representatives will be based on geographic constituencies and a first past the post system. This is needed to give government a face on the local level. If a person has a problem they can take it directly to the office of the congressman, who will be constitutionally bound to offer office hours.

In the spirit of the separation of powers it will also be unconstitutional for any political party to offer candidates in more than one branch of government. All but the most casual or nothing but newly developed professional relationships will be tolerated.

Lastly as per the American model there will be an elected executive. Instead of one there will be three, and all decisions made by the executive will need two thirds majority. This will be a reoccurring theme, as all of the branches of government will be wholly equal in constitution power. Each branch should be able to run the country independent of the others, with some semblance of accountability. That said no branch of government may act without the approval of at least one of the others. 2/3rds majority at all times.

Step 6:

Flush the bureaucracy. Before I ratify the constitution I must remove my former minions because all those people who did their job so efficiently are ruthless, cunning, used to the old way of doing things, and symbols of oppression. They show the people that the olds ways are still lingering.

Also remove the people’s most efficient resisters. They need martyrs to the cause of democracy and unfortunately I need to provide them. They need iconic symbolism to support the regime that I will leave behind.

Step 7:

Elect the new government. The people can decide how elections are run, since I’ve set up all the parameters of power. I need to initiate a treaty of reconciliation, start the healing process. I also need to surrender to the pro-democracy forces, irregardless of how weak I’ve made them. My surrender has to come quick enough after the flush so that they cannot setup new systems of circumventing the state, because with me out of the state no need for circumventing it should exist. My trusted advisors, kept out of the limelight so that they can avoid the flush, will spur the political machine into electing the three branches.

Step 8:

Be tried. I will be the last figurehead for oppression and I cannot be allowed to stay like that. There needs to be a very public trial where I assail the new republic on its most unassailable points. The prosecutor must use this as an opportunity to promote the new republic and I have to seem like an idiot for ever opposing it. I expect this sham of a trial to either kill me (in which case I expect my trusted advisors to ensure it is painless) or imprison me for life, where I hope to write my memoirs.

It may seem odd why I have to be taken out so ruthlessly but it is necessary. As long as my actions are defendable the legitimacy of the new republic is questionable. My actions need to be dragged through whatever mud it takes to make sure that the ideology that supports me is as taboo as saying the Jews deserved what they got from Hitler.



And viola there you have it. My dictatorship turned republic in eight easy steps.

Not neccesarily dictatorship but a monarchy with a hereditary line. It's less likely to fall to revolution because there is no trouble with succession. Besides, which sounds worse to the UN, dictator or duke? Thats an easy one.
Think about it: would you like being surrounded by guys in fatigues or guys in fanciful costumes? Coronations and royal crap or ruling with an iron thumb?
Love of the people or fear of the people?

"You can build a throne of bayonets but you cannot sit on it."
-Mao Tse-Tsung (this may be attributed to the wrong person, help me if it is)

Redistribute the wealth. While I have no qualms about people being excessively rich it cannot be on the backs of others. We need to bring every single person above the poverty line and the quickest way to do this is to steal from the rich ala Robin Hood.

You do realize that Robin Hood was actually a brigand, thief and murderer who stole from any wayside traveler who crossed his path, no?

Somewhat similar to the Pied Piper who, with his lovely little pipe, lured several dozen children into the woods and mercilessly slaughtered them.

But I digress.

You do realize that Robin Hood was actually a brigand, thief and murderer who stole from any wayside traveler who crossed his path, no?

Somewhat similar to the Pied Piper who, with his lovely little pipe, lured several dozen children into the woods and mercilessly slaughtered them.

But I digress.

Fair enough, but the metaphor was designed to summon an image in the reader and despite your erudition on the subject you got my point. I will however take to heart your point, albeit its saturnine presentation, and try to be more unambiguous with my language.

A dictatorship is the way to go to keep the troublemakers today
on their knees!
Todays problems in America would not exist if I ran the place!

I'd base it somewhat off the system we have in the US, but the government would have more powers in some areas and less in others. I suppose in short people would be given more freedoms, but the punishments for breaking crimes will be harsher, significantly so for violent and other major crimes.

I would refuse to become a dictator because I think I would f#ck it up more than it already is. Now if I could see into the future and know the consequences of my actions I'd would be a dictator.

Why, no.

I think I'd probably would. I would give tremendous freedom to individuals, tho.