NationStates Jolt Archive


RE: Male Genital Mutilation (MGM)

Multiland
11-12-2005, 21:10
I have submitted a proposal regarding Male Genital Mutilation in the UN Forum. Here are some links to some of my research.

I actually conducted a semin-anonymous (people could write down their name if they wanted to) on my university campus, but I'm not sure people will believe me unless I link to the documents, which need to be changed slightly to hide names, so I'll try to put a few up when I've done that.

But on with the rest...

The National Organisation of Circumcision Information Resource Centers has carried out its own studies - view them at http://www.nocirc.org - showing the health problems associated with circumcision. And here's an important quote from a pamphlet listed on their website (http://nocirc.org/publish/10pam.pdf):

Circumcision amputates approximately 50
percent of the heavily innervated skin and
mucosa of the penis,5,10 tissue that is a specific
erogenous zone.11 Excision of the foreskin renders
the remaining skin taut and immovable,
eliminates its protective, sensory, and sexual
functions, and destroys the gliding action of the
foreskin, changing the natural mechanics of
normal human reproduction.12
Circumcision puts the patient at risk of surgical
mishap, adhesions, meatitis, meatal ulceration,
infections, bleeding, and even death.5,13
Circumcision is an extremely painful procedure5,14,15
with long-lasting post-operative pain.15,16
Circumcision creates an abnormal physical
appearance with a disfiguring scar encircling
the shaft of the penis and the glans penis
permanently exposed to drying, abrasion,
and mechanical injury.

Here's a quote from another of the pamphlets available on their website, providing an explanation of why the foreskin is important

The foreskin comprises as much as half or more
of the penile skin system and has three known
functions: protective, sensory and sexual.
During infancy, the foreskin is attached to the
glans and protects it from urine, feces and
abrasion from diapers. Throughout life, the
foreskin keeps the glans soft and moist and
protects it from trauma and injury. Without
this protection, the glans becomes dry,
calloused and desensitized from exposure
and chafing.
Specialized nerve endings in the foreskin
enhance sexual pleasure.
The foreskin may have functions not yet
recognized or understood. (From http://nocirc.org/publish/3pam.pdf)

A recent report by the American Medical Association" concluded that circumcision offers no health benefits and the AMA also concluded that circumcision does NOT lead to lower rates of sexually tranmitted infections. http://www.ama-assn.org/

The [b]British Medical Association asserts that “The BMA does not believe that parental preference alone constitutes sufficient grounds for performing a surgical procedure on a child unable to express his own view. . . . Parental preference must be weighed in terms of the child's interests. . . . The BMA considers that the evidence concerning health benefit from non-therapeutic circumcision is insufficient for this alone to be a justification for doing it. . . . Some doctors may wish to not perform circumcisions for reasons of conscience. Doctors are under no obligation to comply with a request to circumcise a child.” http://www.bma.org.uk/ap.nsf/Content/malecircumcision2003?OpenDocument&Highlight=2,circumcise

The Royal Australasian College of Physicians states that After extensive review of the literature the RACP reaffirms that there is no medical indication for routine male circumcision. The possibility that routine circumcision may contravene human rights has been raised because circumcision is performed on a minor and is without proven medical benefit http://www.racp.edu.au/public/index.htm

The Canadian Paediatric Society affirms that Circumcision of newborns should not be routinely performed

This website http://www.rollingdoughnut.com/mt-archives/000244.html lists supposed reasons for circumcision then (admittedly, whilst using colourful language) intelligently refutes them. From a circumcised male.

As you can see, I've taken a lot longer to post this than I wanted to, so I guess you'll have to wait until tomorrow or later for more. In the meantime, feel free to agree with or dispute it, as long as you provide something to back it up :)

Here's some quotes from people who have been circumcised. Granted, there are probably positive ones out there, but these are a heck of a lot of negative ones:

Many parents today realize that if they had
been given accurate information about
circumcision, they would never have let
anyone circumcise their baby. I am one of
those parents, and that is why I do the work
I do and why I have written this pamphlet.”
Marilyn Fayre Milos, R.N.

From http://www.sexuallymutilatedchild.org:

“I've wondered what it's like to have a foreskin all my life”
“I couldn't even make myself say "circumcised" until I was in my twenties”
“The fact that other boys were circumcised too never made me feel any better”
“I used to think there were two kinds of boys: circumcised boys like me and real boys”
“When I was a child I prayed I would get my foreskin back in heaven”
“I feel as if part of me had been murdered”
“What circumcision did to my body is bad enough, but what it did to my mind is worse”
“My first sado/masochistic experience was when I was a baby, when I was circumcised” [Computer Bulletin Board]
“The only reason I'm gay is that I was circumcised when I was a baby. I feel deprived. It's only with an uncircumcised man that I can have a foreskin.” [This man later died of AIDS.]
“When I think about what my parents let happen to me, I want to take a razor and slit their throats”
“I've never told my parents how I feel”
“Fear, pain, crippling, disfigurement, and humiliation are the classic ways to break the human spirit. Circumcision includes them all”

Circumcision is a brutal ritual rooted in
superstition and should be abandoned.... What
is called for is a well thought out approach to
the eradication of antiquated beliefs and
practices which cause so much needless
suffering, mutilation, tragedy, and death."
– Ashley Montagu
Fass
11-12-2005, 21:20
Oh, poor UNer - I always do feel sorry for people who make the jump from the other fora to here. Prepare for not so contructive posts.
The Atlantian islands
11-12-2005, 21:22
Dude, and I say this with every ounce of air in my lungs, you have WAY too much time on your hands.
H N Fiddlebottoms VIII
11-12-2005, 21:26
You know, I thought your argument was good and well thought out, but then you reached that selection of quotes, and, um, what can I say?
Well, I thought of a few things, and they will be revealed in the following segment entitled: A Few Things I Thought of Just Now While Reading About Penises, But Not In a Gay Way of Course. Not That There Is Anything Wrong With That. Damn, This Title Is Long.
So, without further ado:
“I used to think there were two kinds of boys: circumcised boys like me and real boys”
Pinocchio, if you are brave, truthful, and unselfish, you will be a real boy someday.
“When I was a child I prayed I would get my foreskin back in heaven”
“I feel as if part of me had been murdered”
“What circumcision did to my body is bad enough, but what it did to my mind is worse”
Drama much?
Stupid kids.
“The only reason I'm gay is that I was circumcised when I was a baby. I feel deprived. It's only with an uncircumcised man that I can have a foreskin.”
If I cannae have it on me glans, at least I can have it in me ass!
“When I think about what my parents let happen to me, I want to take a razor and slit their throats”
I felt the same way when my parents said I couldn't watch the D&D cartoon anymore.
“Fear, pain, crippling, disfigurement, and humiliation are the classic ways to break the human spirit. Circumcision includes them all”
Its a 5 for the price of 1 deal, folks! You can't beat that value!
COME TO CRAZY AL'S MACHETE EMPROIUM, ROUTE 519 JUST OFF MAYNARD HEIGHTS!
Megaloria
11-12-2005, 21:27
I felt the same way when my parents said I couldn't watch the D&D cartoon anymore.


I fucking hated that stupid Unicorn.
H N Fiddlebottoms VIII
11-12-2005, 21:37
Oh, poor UNer - I always do feel sorry for people who make the jump from the other fora to here. Prepare for not so contructive posts.
Are you implying that I might ever be anything less than serious and forthwright in my comments? That I might abandon sincerity for even a second and descend into silliness or anarchy?
How dare you impugne my honor as such, sir!
Heron-Marked Warriors
11-12-2005, 21:37
The foreskin comprises as much as half or more
of the penile skin system and has three known
functions: protective, sensory and sexual.
During infancy, the foreskin is attached to the
glans and protects it from urine, feces and
abrasion from diapers. Throughout life, the
foreskin keeps the glans soft and moist and
protects it from trauma and injury. Without
this protection, the glans becomes dry,
calloused and desensitized from exposure
and chafing.
Specialized nerve endings in the foreskin
enhance sexual pleasure.
The foreskin may have functions not yet
recognized or understood. (From http://nocirc.org/publish/3pam.pdf)


You lose.
Neo Mishakal
11-12-2005, 21:37
:eek:

WOW!

You know that there are sugeries where you can have a foreskin re attached... right?
Xenophobialand
11-12-2005, 21:39
I'm not sure that the guy on http://www.rollingdoughnut.com/mt-archives/000244.html ever once directly answers a point made by the AMA about why circumcision might be good, and to be honest, a lot of the AMA points made sense to me.

Personally, I don't feel one way or another about the issue: I'm cut, and I've never particularly minded or felt less than whole. Really, I think this is just an excuse for otherwise healthy WASP's to join the culture of victimization.
H N Fiddlebottoms VIII
11-12-2005, 21:41
You know that there are sugeries where you can have a foreskin re attached... right?
Only if your gay, though. Straight people are forced into a life of crime (gay crime no less) in the hope that they might someday recover the sensation of that beloved peice of skin (with out a doubt, the most important organ in the body).
Czardas
11-12-2005, 21:48
Damn... I thought this would be about more people who've done interesting things like me—such as cutting other people's privates open. Oh, you know what I mean.

Also, your posting something serious here obviously reflects your great knowledge of the General forum. This isn't UN you know.
The Eliki
11-12-2005, 21:58
My friend's brother was uncircumsized until about 9, when he got a horrible infection that required it to be removed. I understand this happens semi-frequently among uncircumsized people.

Jews would probably argue denying circumsicion would deny them their religious freedom. For the Jews, circumsicion is the sign of God's Covenent with them. To say they can't be circumsized because it's unhealthy is like saying Catholic kids can't receieve communion under the species of wine because it's giving minors alcohol.

Counterpoint to that, of course, is that some would argue female circumcision is a religious matter as well. But that's another thread.
The Eliki
11-12-2005, 22:00
Only if your gay, though. Straight people are forced into a life of crime (gay crime no less) in the hope that they might someday recover the sensation of that beloved peice of skin (with out a doubt, the most important organ in the body).
Wait, wait, wait.

You're saying only gays can have foreskin reattachment surgery, and circumsized straight dudes are forced into sodomy so they can feel what it's like to have a foreskin?

Any evidence for this?
H N Fiddlebottoms VIII
11-12-2005, 22:02
Wait, wait, wait.

You're saying only gays can have foreskin reattachment surgery, and circumsized straight dudes are forced into sodomy so they can feel what it's like to have a foreskin?

Any evidence for this?
Like, duh, its in the OP:
From http://www.sexuallymutilatedchild.org:
“My first sado/masochistic experience was when I was a baby, when I was circumcised” [Computer Bulletin Board]
“The only reason I'm gay is that I was circumcised when I was a baby. I feel deprived. It's only with an uncircumcised man that I can have a foreskin.”
How can you deny the validity of unproven anecodotal evidenced produced over the Interweb?
Heron-Marked Warriors
11-12-2005, 22:06
How can you deny the validity of unproven anecodotal evidenced produced over the Interweb?

To do so would defeat the entire purpose of the internet, except for the porn.
Megaloria
11-12-2005, 22:15
I don't think I can watch a movie produced by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer without being slightly put off, thanks to this title.
Dakini
11-12-2005, 22:22
My friend's brother was uncircumsized until about 9, when he got a horrible infection that required it to be removed. I understand this happens semi-frequently among uncircumsized people.
I don't think it happens semi-frequently, seeing as the biggest problem I've heard about remaining uncut is that the foreskin doesn't pull back in a timely manner sometimes and that only happens to like 2% of kids at 14 and 0.5% at 18.
Harpoon222
11-12-2005, 22:24
Damn... I thought this would be about more people who've done interesting things like me—such as cutting other people's privates open. Oh, you know what I mean.

Also, your posting something serious here obviously reflects your great knowledge of the General forum. This isn't UN you know.

its not lack of intrest or IQ. Its just scarry thinging of anyong tuching that let alown with a razer. im sorta locked my self in my room when i first asked my mom what it ment after reading about it in Bible (those 200 poor men). plus its finals week so i dont even know why i'm on the forms.
Carriedom
11-12-2005, 22:25
You would fare better to liken circumcision to the cutting of the clitoral hood (which, in females would reduce infections, a much more common problem for the female than the male.) The clitoral hood serves a lot of the same purposes as the foreskin and also shares its abundance of nerve ends, but it traps a lot more bacteria and dirt (especially from wiping in the wrong direction, sexual intercourse, and general fondling). You can find some good information on this on mothersagainstcircumcision and also on some of the sites you posted. FGM is not a good comparison.
Dakini
11-12-2005, 22:26
I so wouldn't want anyone going at my clitoral hood with a scalpel.
Carriedom
11-12-2005, 22:27
Oh me either!!
Dakini
11-12-2005, 22:29
One of my friends got hers pierced...

I can't imagine that one.

Although apparantly some women end up with orgasms from walking after they do that.
Sel Appa
12-12-2005, 01:06
On wikipedia, the uncircumcised one looks damn nasty. I'm happy to have been circumcised.
Lunatic Goofballs
12-12-2005, 01:12
I thought this thread was going to be about me, somehow. *breathes a sigh of relief*

By the way, if anybody wants to be circumcised, the scrotum-seeking attack weasels are on duty all night. :)
The Beach Boys
12-12-2005, 02:21
I have submitted a proposal regarding Male Genital Mutilation in the UN Forum. Here are some links to some of my research.
<snip!> (oh, how I love doing that on this kind of thread!)

I can't believe this topic is now the subject of not one but two threads. and I really can't believe that this obsession from real life might become the misguided subject of a UN proposal.

Multiland, don't you know that here in Nationstates there's no such thing as a foreskin? we're all of species that don't have that kind of penis. don't go confusing that real life stuff we all hallucinate about from time to time with what goes on here. you'll just end up cluttering up the UN law books for nothing. if you can't get rid of that delusion about foreskins when the drugs wear off, don't write a UN proposal, just stop taking the drugs for awhile or get professional help with it.

as for me, I really love being in a species with a penis that doesn't have or need a foreskin.
Harpoon222
12-12-2005, 02:54
On wikipedia, the uncircumcised one looks damn nasty. I'm happy to have been circumcised.

Can we get a link plese. Im realy bad at looking this knid of stuf up.

oh can anyone tell me why Im on a form when Finals are tomarow. Im FUBAR.
Avertide
12-12-2005, 03:04
“Fear, pain, crippling, disfigurement, and humiliation are the classic ways to break the human spirit. Circumcision includes them all”

It only becomes that when people like you with no tact begin to make it into a disfigurement, a crippled condition, something to be ashamed of.
Avertide
12-12-2005, 03:10
I thought this thread was going to be about me, somehow. *breathes a sigh of relief*

By the way, if anybody wants to be circumcised, the scrotum-seeking attack weasels are on duty all night. :)

No, Scrotum seeking attack weasels castrate by ripping the scrotum open so the testicles tumble out. Just like Llamas do to other male llamas in the wild so they can't compete genetically with them anymore. And people say animals are better than us.