NationStates Jolt Archive


'Dirty negro' insult not always racist-Italy court

Aryavartha
11-12-2005, 21:08
This is the kinda news that makes me go WTH.

What's up with Italian judiciary...I remember a few years ago they ruled that a woman who was wearing jeans was not raped since the jeans could not have been removed without her consent. (as noted in the article too).

Is this the norm in Italian judiciary or are these aberrations?

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyID=2005-12-06T134336Z_01_DIT649300_RTRIDST_0_OUKOE-UK-LIFE-ITALY-RACISM.XML
ROME (Reuters) - Calling a foreigner a "dirty negro" in Italian is not necessarily a racist insult, Italy's highest court has ruled.

The verdict, relating to a case where a group of Italian men punched and insulted some women from Colombia, caused deep unease at a time when Italy is struggling to contain racism.

The court on Monday ruled in favour of one of the men, who argued he was not being racist when he launched the assault with the words: "Sporche negre -- cosa ci fanno queste negre qua?" ("Dirty negroes -- what are these negroes doing here?")

Most Italians would have no doubt that calling someone a "dirty negro" was a racist insult. The term is seldom heard and is considered no more acceptable in Italy than it would be in Britain or the United States.

However, an insult should be judged racist "only if it is motivated by real hatred", or is likely to cause racial hatred in others or lead to "discriminatory behaviour for reasons of race, ethnicity, nationality or religion", the court ruled.

On the other hand, the crime of racism is not constituted by expressions of "generic dislike, intolerance or rejection based on race, ethnicity or religion", which appeared to fit the case in question, the court said.

Politicians across the political spectrum criticised the ruling and said it could not have come at a worse time.

RACIST SOCCER CHANTS

Soccer matches around Italy began late on Sunday as players unfurled banners saying "No To Racism" in response to an episode on November 27 when Marc Zoro, Ivory Coast defender for Messina in Serie A, the top division, threatened to walk off the pitch because of racist chants from Inter Milan fans.

"This judicial interpretation is astonishing," said Green Party lawmaker Paolo Cento.

Luigi Bobbio, of the conservative National Alliance party, said the verdict was the result of "a subtle poison (that) has seeped into our jurisprudence: originality at all costs".

The supreme court is no stranger to controversial judgements.

In recent years it has ruled that "an isolated and impulsive" pat on a woman's bottom at work did not constitute sexual harassment, and returned a verdict that a woman could not have been raped because she was wearing skin-tight jeans.

Carlo Fucci, the vice president of Italy's national association of magistrates, warned that the court's ruling "could blunt the weapons that can be used against racism".

As part of the campaign against racism, all but one of the parties on Milan's city council this week appealed to the mayor to grant Zoro Milan's most prestigious award, a golden statue of its patron saint, Ambrogio.

The populist Northern League party, which is often accused of racism, dissociated itself from the appeal.
Super-power
11-12-2005, 21:09
I dislike the insult but I like even less the government legislating it out of existance because of Political Correctness...conclusion: a victory for free speech
H N Fiddlebottoms VIII
11-12-2005, 21:15
Why should anyone get punished for insulting someone? Racism is a form of thought and a method of looking at the world that, while you may not like it, seems to let other people enjoy their tea and cup cakes just fine. Provided it doesn't provoke them to violence or real aggression (your feewings don't count), I could care less.
Anyway, who cares about the insult, if they beat the woman, shouldn't everyone be more concerned about Assault charges? Those times I've fought with people, I really wasn't interested in what they were saying, I was more worried about where their fists were going.
Free Soviets
11-12-2005, 22:16
I dislike the insult but I like even less the government legislating it out of existance because of Political Correctness

it's 'political correctness' to identify motives in criminal activities? or to recognize that phrases such as "Dirty negroes -- what are these negroes doing here", especially when followed up with violence, are clearly intended as threats against a whole community (and not just those that were specifically addressed)? as david neiwert put it (http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2005/11/hate-crimes-big-picture.html):

...hate crimes have the fully intended effect of driving away and deterring the presence of any kind of hated minority -- racial, religious, or sexual. They are essentially acts of terrorism directed at entire communities of people, and they are message crimes: "Keep out."
Brady Bunch Perm
11-12-2005, 22:34
All things considered, "Dirty Negro", ain't that bad of a racist remark.
Free Soviets
11-12-2005, 22:37
All things considered, "Dirty Negro", ain't that bad of a racist remark.


and that was a 'love beating' that they gave out...
The South Islands
11-12-2005, 22:41
and that was a 'love beating' that they gave out...
That sounds like a jail cell term.
Brady Bunch Perm
11-12-2005, 22:44
and that was a 'love beating' that they gave out...


Well, I was given a "love beating" by the Chinese Government when I went on a mission there. They called me some names that can't even be repeated here, not even including the dislocated shoulder.
Fluffywuffy
11-12-2005, 22:55
I call most everyone I meet a bitch, including friends, enemies, acquintences, etc. (Ex. "Sup, bitch?") It's not offensive, at least not in my opinion (which, in this case, is all that matters as I will never stop doing this). If someone did the same thing but called everyone a dirty negro, fine by me. "Sup, dirty negro?"
Heron-Marked Warriors
11-12-2005, 23:00
I call most everyone I meet a bitch, including friends, enemies, acquintences, etc. (Ex. "Sup, bitch?") It's not offensive, at least not in my opinion (which, in this case, is all that matters as I will never stop doing this). If someone did the same thing but called everyone a dirty negro, fine by me. "Sup, dirty negro?"

My dog finds you offensive.
The Infinite Dunes
11-12-2005, 23:24
There is a slight problem with translation here. In English the word black and negro are two separate words. Black is an acceptable way to describe someone's race, whereas negro is considered to only ever have racist connotations. Negro is in from the Spanish for black, and as both Spannish and Italian are Latin languages they have very similar words for black, that is, Italian has the word 'negre'.

The court, I believe, is absolutely right in saying that
"However, an insult should be judged racist "only if it is motivated by real hatred", or is likely to cause racial hatred in others or lead to "discriminatory behaviour for reasons of race, ethnicity, nationality or religion", the court ruled."

However, I don't understand how they then decided that "generic dislike, intolerance or rejection based on race, ethnicity or religion" does not constitute 'hate'. If there even is a difference it must be a very fine line.
Korrithor
12-12-2005, 00:03
The continent that gave the world Voltaire is now legislating what speech is legal and illegal? Sad.
Neu Leonstein
12-12-2005, 00:07
The continent that gave the world Voltaire is now legislating what speech is legal and illegal? Sad.
It's the continent that gave the world racism and the holocaust too.

Sometimes courts just f*ck up. Like in France with those paedophiles. :headbang: