NationStates Jolt Archive

I got a question for all the people out there that say blacks are oppressed.
How come a black kid can call a white kid a cracker and nobody cares, but if a white kid calls the black a ****** back then all of a sudden the white kid is called racist. (I gon't know if it is like this every where but it is like this in the town I live in.)
Also blacks shouldn't complain about not having equal rights considering they have affirmitive action to give all those damn handouts at jobs and school.
So how are blacks oppressed?
(NOTE: I am not a racist in any way. I just heard some blacks complaining and it pissed me off. Also how whites in my town tolerate this bullshit and let blacks say whatever the hell they want and a white can say anything back.)

Because Whites are in the majority and Blacks are in the minority. It's very hard for the minority to oppress the majority.

I used to call everyone cracker.

Because Whites are in the majority and Blacks are in the minority. It's very hard for the minority to oppress the majority.
Bah, what about plutocracies/oligarchies and dictatorships?

Bah, what about plutocracies/oligarchies and dictatorships?

I wouldn't call the US any of those.

"I wouldn't call the US any of those."-DrunkenDove

No, but the US is very very very accepting towards minorities.

"I wouldn't call the US any of those."-DrunkenDove

No, but the US is very very very accepting towards minorities.
Perhaps accepting to the point of "anything goes," in some cases.

I see it as a case of racial guilt. A lot of whites feel shame for their ancestors' crimes, so if they happen to be called a cracker or lose job opportunity because of affirmative action, they subconsciously think it's okay because it's just justice for what happened in the past. I don't think everyone thinks that way, but a lot do.

"I wouldn't call the US any of those."-DrunkenDove

No, but the US is very very very accepting towards minorities.

And that's a bad thing?

Using racial slurs means you're an idiot, no matter what colour or creed you might be.

Of course, in my head, racial slurs are just used by people who can't get the antiquated notions of "race" out of their head.

Because Whites are in the majority and Blacks are in the minority. It's very hard for the minority to oppress the majority. The Jewish Bolshevik World Illuminati Conspiracy manages.

I got a question for all the people out there that say blacks are oppressed.
How come a black kid can call a white kid a cracker and nobody cares, but if a white kid calls the black a ****** back then all of a sudden the white kid is called racist. (I gon't know if it is like this every where but it is like this in the town I live in.)
Also blacks shouldn't complain about not having equal rights considering they have affirmitive action to give all those damn handouts at jobs and school.
So how are blacks oppressed?
(NOTE: I am not a racist in any way. I just heard some blacks complaining and it pissed me off. Also how whites in my town tolerate this bullshit and let blacks say whatever the hell they want and a white can say anything back.)

its the same at my school
Black and Asian kids can say whatever they want to the White kids, and nothing happens

but White kids can't say any offensive thing (race-wise) to the Black kids or the Asians

its the same at my school
Black and Asian kids can say whatever they want to the White kids, and nothing happens

but White kids can't say any offensive thing (race-wise) to the Black kids or the Asians

So you aer pissed off because you have to say "Stupid fucker" or "Discusting idiot" instead of something cool like "******" or a, ummm, ehh, "******"?

BOOHOOO! Cry me a river.

And then grow up enough to stop calling people with names ;)

Using racial slurs means you're an idiot, no matter what colour or creed you might be.

Of course, in my head, racial slurs are just used by people who can't get the antiquated notions of "race" out of their head.

Agreed with you twice today. The problem is that people are taught to be racist by there parents or the enviroment they were raised in. These things are going to take years to overcome. Racism is such a deep social disease it is difficult to overcome.

" see it as a case of racial guilt. A lot of whites feel shame for their ancestors' crimes, so if they happen to be called a cracker or lose job opportunity because of affirmative action, they subconsciously think it's okay because it's just justice for what happened in the past. I don't think everyone thinks that way, but a lot do."-The Eliki

Whoever thinks that needs to wake up. Jesus have some pride in your heritage for Christ sake. I've never seen a black stand down when called a ****** and I've never seen a Hispanic stand down when called a spic. So if they can have pride in their heritage then a white should be able to also and shouldn't have to feel guilty cause the past is the past, and should have the same rights as the black and hispanic to defend his heritage if insulted.

So you aer pissed off because you have to say "Stupid fucker" or "Discusting idiot" instead of something cool like "******" or a, ummm, ehh, "******"?

BOOHOOO! Cry me a river.

And then grow up enough to stop calling people with names ;)
No, he's pissed because either is allowed.

It's a double-standard to say "Don't be a racist, gringo." Derogatory terms just shouldn't be used when it comes to race. Simple as that.

So you aer pissed off because you have to say "Stupid fucker" or "Discusting idiot" instead of something cool like "******" or a, ummm, ehh, "******"?

BOOHOOO! Cry me a river.

And then grow up enough to stop calling people with names ;)
Hahahahahaha!

http://www.totallywaycool.com/kojimyuu/pzone.jpg

Originally Posted by Madnestan
So you aer pissed off because you have to say "Stupid fucker" or "Discusting idiot" instead of something cool like "******" or a, ummm, ehh, "******"?

BOOHOOO! Cry me a river.

And then grow up enough to stop calling people with names

You missed the point dumbass.

I'm pissed cause a black can racial insult a white.

How come a black kid can call a white kid a cracker and nobody cares
I've never heard the term before. Therefore I wouldn't care if someone said it.

NOTE: I am not a racist in any way.
Of course, some of your best friends are black.

" see it as a case of racial guilt. A lot of whites feel shame for their ancestors' crimes, so if they happen to be called a cracker or lose job opportunity because of affirmative action, they subconsciously think it's okay because it's just justice for what happened in the past. I don't think everyone thinks that way, but a lot do."-The Eliki

Whoever thinks that needs to wake up. Jesus have some pride in your heritage for Christ sake. I've never seen a black stand down when called a ****** and I've never seen a Hispanic stand down when called a spic. So if they can have pride in their heritage then a white should be able to also and shouldn't have to feel guilty cause the past is the past, and should have the same rights as the black and hispanic to defend his heritage if insulted.
That's precisely it. They've been taught since elementary school that whites oppress everybody. What's to be proud of? The Trail of Tears? Slave trade? The wiping out of the Aztecs? They're taught that Eli Whitney and W.E.B. DuBois and Booker T. Washington were heroes because they were black and successful in a time when few were. But whites have never really been oppressed as a race.

I'm not advocating a White Pride Month or anything, but that's just how it is.

We gotta make a change...
It's time for us as a people to start makin' some changes.
Let's change the way we eat, let's change the way we live
and let's change the way we treat each other.
You see the old way wasn't working so it's on us to do
what we gotta do, to survive.

Tupac rules

Plain and simple - ****** is a word that has survived since the slave days. It is more derogatory than cracker will ever be because it was a way for people to talk down to what were a helpless people. I find cracker amusing. I am white - I have no guilt about what whites did 100 even 40-50 years ago. Fuck them and their stupid attitudes and actions. I grew up in Newark, NJ in a largely black area and I have had some racist terms and actions directed at me, but I remember more good than bad. Lets all move on and be friends. Anyone who can't move on then just get out of the way of progress and keep it to yourself.

What's to be proud of?-The Eliki

The fact that their people have put together some of the mightiest empires the world has ever seen. Also that all because their ancestors fucked up doesn't mean that their whole culture and way of life is shit.

Originally Posted by Madnestan
So you aer pissed off because you have to say "Stupid fucker" or "Discusting idiot" instead of something cool like "******" or a, ummm, ehh, "******"?

BOOHOOO! Cry me a river.

And then grow up enough to stop calling people with names

You missed the point dumbass.

I'm pissed cause a black can racial insult a white.
whats your problem? if you dont like it, punch him.

"Anyone who can't move on then just get out of the way of progress and keep it to yourself."-Anybodybutbushia

Agreed.

its the same at my school
Black and Asian kids can say whatever they want to the White kids, and nothing happens

but White kids can't say any offensive thing (race-wise) to the Black kids or the Asians

True. Most minorities get more-than-equal rights, since we are so "conscious" of giving them equal opportunities, and more importantly, showing it. So we go out of our way (publicly) to provide aid to minorities, whether emotional (racist slurs can't go white-->minority) or whatever. For example, job internships specifically for minority-race people, and those with learning disorders.

These piss me right off. And I fall into both the above categories. Everyone should compete on equal ground. THAT would be equal rights. Of course, no one would listen to me, since a VERY large proportion of minorities do take full advantage of augmented rights (which I would never do, since it's degrading to cheat on the "goodwill" of others - and that IS how I view it - cheating), and most white people are too busy fulfilling government minority quotas to change their minds.

Come to think about it, I'm mixed race (and one half is, yes, "ETHNIC"). Surely that's even more minority than Asian and Black people, etc? But something's telling me if I gave a recognised-minority person aggro (note my careful use of PC-terminology here, to save my ass), I would probably get my punk-ass locked in jail. :mp5: And officially be condemned, by all.

Screw PC. We're not responsible for our ancestors' suppressing minorities. We're responsible for suppressing the majority. Well done us.

A country should be run in a way so that regardless of race you get equal oppurtunities and equal rights. That is why we must abolish affirmitive action and make it so that if a minority insults a white that they recieve the same punishments as a white would if they insulted a minority. And we must not go out of our way to ensure that they are treated equal because that will only lead to them eventually having special privliages again. They must be guarenteed equal civil rights as any white and nothing more and nothing less. Then and only then will you live somewhere where everybody is equal.


AFFIRMITIVE ACTION MUST BE OUTLAWED!!!!!
EQUALITY FOR ALL RACES!!!

Also schools must teach that blacks and other minorities can be just as racist as whites.

I got a question for all the people out there that say blacks are oppressed.
How come a black kid can call a white kid a cracker and nobody cares, but if a white kid calls the black a ****** back then all of a sudden the white kid is called racist. (I gon't know if it is like this every where but it is like this in the town I live in.)
Also blacks shouldn't complain about not having equal rights considering they have affirmitive action to give all those damn handouts at jobs and school.
So how are blacks oppressed?
(NOTE: I am not a racist in any way. I just heard some blacks complaining and it pissed me off. Also how whites in my town tolerate this bullshit and let blacks say whatever the hell they want and a white can say anything back.)

I love the "I am not a racist in any way" disclaimer. Nice, very nice. :(

Also schools must teach that blacks and other minorities can be just as racist as whites.

Absolutely true, though I expect they know this from the amount of insults I've had hurled at me from my predominantly Asian/Black home town. Minority my ass!

no really

if you dont like the way someone talks to you and calls you names

why dont you tell them to STOP IT?

I've never heard the term before. Therefore I wouldn't care if someone said it.


Of course, some of your best friends are black.

That’s because you are a “limy” and not familiar with American racial slurs. :D And don't you dare call me a "Mick" or "Mackerel Snapper." :)

That's precisely it. They've been taught since elementary school that whites oppress everybody. What's to be proud of? The Trail of Tears? Slave trade? The wiping out of the Aztecs? They're taught that Eli Whitney and W.E.B. DuBois and Booker T. Washington were heroes because they were black and successful in a time when few were. But whites have never really been oppressed as a race.

I'm not advocating a White Pride Month or anything, but that's just how it is.

Some whites have been oppressed but it was due to their national origin or religion rather than the color of their skin. End result is the same thought.

Jews have been opressed and many of them are White.

'Whites' - europeans - are significantly in the ascendent for... what, let's say 400 years, yes? Prior to that point, an awful lot of the 'mightiest empires', scientific progress, philiosophy etc. came from Asia, s. america etc etc.

This acendency includes exploitation of other cultures, including ones where the people look different.

Suddenly decide this exploitation is immoral (yay!); try and fix it. For... like, the first time ever in human history.

Is it any wonder that this glorious experiment doesn't go 100% right first time? That there are new (though remarkably insignificant - 'why can't I call that guy ******?' is hardly oppression) inequalities created during the process? I think it'll work much better in future, but first of all you have to try what doesn't work 100%, so you can improve on it.

Come back in 100 years or so, I'm sure there'll be significant improvement by then :)

There is no such thing as "black" or "white" races. There are hereditary bloodlines which given time and a certain amount of isolation will manifest unique sets of genetic profiles. There is a virtually unlimited amount of variances and mixtures so trying to pigeon hole anyone into any one or two categories is an exercise in absurdity. Let alone the fact that even if there was such a thing as "race" in the sense of "racism" skin color alone would be even more minute within he classification it would be virtually negligible. End of story, throw the race shit out. The fact that there is a legal distinction for this makes my skin crawl.

If you want to ridicule or malign someone do it on the grounds of their piss-poor culture (Gangsta comes immediately to mind) or their general lack of good character, not on some abstract, asinine, and irrelevant concept.

Have a nice day.

Whoever thinks that needs to wake up. Jesus have some pride in your heritage for Christ sake.

Why the fuck do you need racial pride? Well done, you got born! Heritage means NOTHING beyond showing you how lucky/unlucky you were to be born in a particular family.

Elgesh']'Whites' - europeans - are significantly in the ascendent for... what, let's say 400 years, yes? Prior to that point, an awful lot of the 'mightiest empires', scientific progress, philiosophy etc. came from Asia, s. america etc etc.

This acendency includes exploitation of other cultures, including ones where the people look different.

Suddenly decide this exploitation is immoral (yay!); try and fix it. For... like, the first time ever in human history.



Ever hear of Evolution? It isn't just some shit they teach in science class that some faceless "fundies" don't like kids to hear about. It's the verbal embodiment of the worst of human nature, including but not limited to exploitation, ethnocentrism, violence, and selfishness. Slavery? Genocide? Imperialism? How about those primitive little Indians on their nice land? Oh yeah... It's evolution baby!

The Jews called it the yetzer ra that ever present urge to fulfill your own wants and needs... there is nothing inherently wrong with the yetzer ra without it we wouldn't get food, or build shelter, take care of your selves and our families, etc, etc…. But of course if someone has something you want or something you need, that devil inside of you will tempt you with sin. Take what you want at the expense of others. Exploitation, steeling, murder, coveting, etc, etc, etc... All laid out thousands of years ago and now known as "evolutionary behavior."

Conversely the yetzer tov is the moral conscience, the inner voice that reminds you that hurting someone else doesn't justify fulfilling your own needs. That inner restraint and that inner temptation is what composes biblical "free will."

*Glances at history*

Oh yeah... we haven't been doing to well in that respect now have we?

Why the fuck do you need racial pride? Well done, you got born! Heritage means NOTHING beyond showing you how lucky/unlucky you were to be born in a particular family.

It gives you a sence of your heritage. I'm and American whose grandparents (all four) were Irish Catholic. I'm very proud of both my Irish and American heritage. I like both the Irish and the American culture and am fairly versed in the history of both countries. By the way, it is ethnic not racial pride.

no really

if you dont like the way someone talks to you and calls you names

why dont you tell them to STOP IT?

*rolls eyes*. Yeah. That totally works in the playground, too.
Reality check: They mock you, rip on you some more, and follow you to your door repeating obscenities.

Obviously life would be easier if people didn't have to check race before defending themselves? :rolleyes:

Also blacks shouldn't complain about not having equal rights considering they have affirmitive action to give all those damn handouts at jobs and school.
So how are blacks oppressed?

You do not know what you are talking about.

Blacks are among the most oppressed groups in American society, as the economic statistics indicate. Affirmative action programs are completely insufficient to counter a very real and very strong racist tendency.

What is really needed is economic reform, but racism often manages to sabotage that, too.

I got a question for all the people out there that say blacks are oppressed.
How come a black kid can call a white kid a cracker and nobody cares, but if a white kid calls the black a ****** back then all of a sudden the white kid is called racist. (I gon't know if it is like this every where but it is like this in the town I live in.)
Also blacks shouldn't complain about not having equal rights considering they have affirmitive action to give all those damn handouts at jobs and school.
So how are blacks oppressed?
(NOTE: I am not a racist in any way. I just heard some blacks complaining and it pissed me off. Also how whites in my town tolerate this bullshit and let blacks say whatever the hell they want and a white can say anything back.)

Same tired old argument trotted out again and again.

There is a systematic oppression of black people in the world. Consistently they have worse paid jobs, higher rates of unemployment, suffer more police bullying and are generally treated like dirt. Do you complain about that? no!

You complain that white people aren't allowed to say '******'. Oh no. Poor us. How will we survive?

Blacks are among the most oppressed groups in American society, as the economic statistics indicate. Affirmative action programs are completely insufficient to counter a very real and very strong racist tendency.
.

Economics aren't always sign of oppression. Hispanic immigrants are much more recent arrivals in the US, and they are doing a lot better than blacks economically. The problem lies with the element of urban black culture that refuses to work and who demonizes any attempt by blacks to succeed.

*rolls eyes*. Yeah. That totally works in the playground, too.
Reality check: They mock you, rip on you some more, and follow you to your door repeating obscenities.

Obviously life would be easier if people didn't have to check race before defending themselves? :rolleyes:
if thats whats happening they are BULLIES. if you werent "white" they would pick on you for something else. its what bullies do.

I got a question for all the people out there that say blacks are oppressed.
How come a black kid can call a white kid a cracker and nobody cares, but if a white kid calls the black a ****** back then all of a sudden the white kid is called racist. (I gon't know if it is like this every where but it is like this in the town I live in.)
Also blacks shouldn't complain about not having equal rights considering they have affirmitive action to give all those damn handouts at jobs and school.
So how are blacks oppressed?
(NOTE: I am not a racist in any way. I just heard some blacks complaining and it pissed me off. Also how whites in my town tolerate this bullshit and let blacks say whatever the hell they want and a white can say anything back.)

Technically, you aren't allowed to say racial slurs back at them because your higher average pay is supposed to salve your bruised ego. We get more money, they get to hurl invectives; that's the deal.

Economics aren't always sign of oppression. Hispanic immigrants are much more recent arrivals in the US, and they are doing a lot better than blacks economically. The problem lies with the element of urban black culture that refuses to work and who demonizes any attempt by blacks to succeed.

Oh, damn! My bullshit detector went on with such a noise that I almost fainted.
First of all, the fact they are "much more recent" arrivals doesn't mean anything.
Beeing there oppressed for hundreds of years doesn't give you an advantage, more likely the effect is opposite.
Second, for what I have heard/understood, black people face much, much stronger racism than the Hispanic ones, of which attitude you are giving us an example.
Third, the statement about "urban black culture" shows such level of arrogance and is so blatantly racist I find it hard to answer it without dropping down to the same level, like "The white culture is so racist that they can't do better". And that was what I DON'T say, to avoid misunderstandings ;)

You do not know what you are talking about.

Blacks are among the most oppressed groups in American society, as the economic statistics indicate. Affirmative action programs are completely insufficient to counter a very real and very strong racist tendency.

What is really needed is economic reform, but racism often manages to sabotage that, too.

No, what we need is education reform not economic reform. The only way people can lift themselves out of poverty is through a good education that allows them to take advantage of the economic opportunities. We need to teach people the importance of a good education and insure a good education is available to all people.

if thats whats happening they are BULLIES. if you werent "white" they would pick on you for something else. its what bullies do.

We take action to stop bullies.
Why not these guys?
Because... they're minorities?

No, what we need is education reform not economic reform. The only way people can lift themselves out of poverty is through a good education that allows them to take advantage of the economic opportunities. We need to teach people the importance of a good education and insure a good education is available to all people.

Anarchosyndicalist revolution wouldn't do any bad neither, though.

Economics aren't always sign of oppression. Hispanic immigrants are much more recent arrivals in the US, and they are doing a lot better than blacks economically. The problem lies with the element of urban black culture that refuses to work and who demonizes any attempt by blacks to succeed.

Right. Blame the victim.

This sort of attitude is exactly what perpetuates the problem.

No, what we need is education reform not economic reform. The only way people can lift themselves out of poverty is through a good education that allows them to take advantage of the economic opportunities. We need to teach people the importance of a good education and insure a good education is available to all people.

Yeah all those opportunities of being caretakers or working as a shop assistant on minimum wage.

No, what we need is education reform not economic reform. The only way people can lift themselves out of poverty is through a good education that allows them to take advantage of the economic opportunities. We need to teach people the importance of a good education and insure a good education is available to all people.

That would be a good start. Educational inequality is one of the ways the hierarchies of class and race, and the associative injustices, are maintained and enforced.

It is only a start, however.

Providing this could be effectively implemented, this would be a great way to reduce racism. Though quite a lot of minorities in my area are well-educated, but go out of their way to act "badass" from "da ghetto." Probably reducing their job prospects. I don't blame the race - I blame 50 Cent etc. and their stupid glorification of violence etc.

Ever hear of Evolution? It isn't just some shit they teach in science class that some faceless "fundies" don't like kids to hear about. It's the verbal embodiment of the worst of human nature, including but not limited to exploitation, ethnocentrism, violence, and selfishness. Slavery? Genocide? Imperialism? How about those primitive little Indians on their nice land? Oh yeah... It's evolution baby!

The Jews called it the yetzer ra that ever present urge to fulfill your own wants and needs... there is nothing inherently wrong with the yetzer ra without it we wouldn't get food, or build shelter, take care of your selves and our families, etc, etc…. But of course if someone has something you want or something you need, that devil inside of you will tempt you with sin. Take what you want at the expense of others. Exploitation, steeling, murder, coveting, etc, etc, etc... All laid out thousands of years ago and now known as "evolutionary behavior."

Conversely the yetzer tov is the moral conscience, the inner voice that reminds you that hurting someone else doesn't justify fulfilling your own needs. That inner restraint and that inner temptation is what composes biblical "free will."

*Glances at history*

Oh yeah... we haven't been doing to well in that respect now have we?

Thanks... I think...

I'm no being funny, guy, but I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not! It's an interesting point of view - evolution as it applies to huge groups of people. Are you saying it's only recently your yetzor tov has begun to come in to play in dealing with exploited groups?

If you're looking for a debate, you'll have to lower your sights a little - you've gone waay over my head here! :D

Yeah all those opportunities of being caretakers or working as a shop assistant on minimum wage.

No, I said real education reform, not a return to the "normal schools" of the past.

Right. Blame the victim.

This sort of attitude is exactly what perpetuates the problem.

I don't think Vetalia was blaming the victim, rather the environment which the victim grows up in. Vetalia referenced the element of black culture than demonizes success, which does exist, and hampers the chances of those who grow up surrounded by that culture, to succeed.

It is commonly agreed that the factor rendering comprehensive schools not an optimal environment for those driven to succeed (secondaries are generally perceived better), is that peers demonize success there. This prompts universities to (possibly) look favourably upon the few successful applicants from such schools, in light of awareness of bullying etc. due to their determination to succeed.

Soheran, by your definition, to say that in general, more pupils in comprehensives than secondaries demonize success, is blaming the driven-pupil for its hindered success. Obviously that is not the case.

This scenario concurs with the one Vetalia referenced. Certainly in my area, too many minorities are busy proving "how badass we are, y'all kick those whitey oppressors, they oppressin' our people," prompting all white people anxious to compensate for "our ancestors' crimes agaisnt humanity" to create special rules for them.

I got a question for all the people out there that say blacks are oppressed.
How come a black kid can call a white kid a cracker and nobody cares, but if a white kid calls the black a ****** back then all of a sudden the white kid is called racist. (I gon't know if it is like this every where but it is like this in the town I live in.)
Also blacks shouldn't complain about not having equal rights considering they have affirmitive action to give all those damn handouts at jobs and school.
So how are blacks oppressed?
(NOTE: I am not a racist in any way. I just heard some blacks complaining and it pissed me off. Also how whites in my town tolerate this bullshit and let blacks say whatever the hell they want and a white can say anything back.)
Well being called a cracker is pretty funny. I'd be LMAO if someone called me that. Now the real problem today is all these WIGGERS we have around. Can't these suburban white kids find their own damn culture. ;)

RE: All this economic oppression...

It could be different in the US, but where are the economically oppressed minorities? Most homeless people in London are white. Seems the black people are too busy affording expensive "bling", one "badass" car, and spending £15 to go clubbing Friday nights. Similarly, its the Asians in my area who are most wealthy, with their daughters bragging about how "my daddy is gonna buy me a B-M-duubbble-yoooo" (I kid you not). Proportionally, kinda like how Americans complain that Jewish people are richer. My family can't afford one car. We pay for our food via bank loans.

RE: All this economic oppression...

It could be different in the US, but where are the economically oppressed minorities? Most homeless people in London are white. Seems the black people are too busy affording expensive "bling", one "badass" car, and spending £15 to go clubbing Friday nights. Similarly, its the Asians in my area who are most wealthy, with their daughters bragging about how "my daddy is gonna buy me a B-M-duubbble-yoooo" (I kid you not). Proportionally, kinda like how Americans complain that Jewish people are richer. My family can't afford one car. We pay for our food via bank loans.

All I can say is look at the statistics for UK poverty; across the board, white britons do very well for themselves. Asian - and particularly black - groups are much more densely concentrated at the low end of the scale.

Of course that's not going to be the case for _all_ white britons, or asian/black/whatever ones! It's a social trend, not a law, thankfully!

I'm sorry, but I honestly don't believe that blacks are a minority overall in the US. There are too many people who don't fill out census forms or even lie on them, so the numbers can't possibly be correct. Also, minorities and majorities vary from area to area.

And then there's a historical standpoint -- slaves were bought in the hundreds and thousands, and one plantation owner would own MANY slaves. That in itself kind of tips the scales, I think.. Seriously,though, if you have info to correct this assumption -- gimme!

No, I said real education reform, not a return to the "normal schools" of the past.
You said you wanted educational reform so that black people could take advantage of the opportunities around them.

Im saying that when the opportunities around them are low-paid, demeaning jobs can you really blame the educational system alone?

Elgesh']Thanks... I think...

I'm no being funny, guy, but I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not! It's an interesting point of view - evolution as it applies to huge groups of people. Are you saying it's only recently your yetzor tov has begun to come in to play in dealing with exploited groups?

If you're looking for a debate, you'll have to lower your sights a little - you've gone waay over my head here! :D

Well, as you said ascendancy includes exploitation of other cultures. My reference to evolution is essentially comparing, for example, the European conquest of America to a bigger, better, more evolved (or ascended) predator having it’s way with a weaker animal. That right there is essentially human nature on the micro scale of individual behavior or the macro scale of civilizations competing for superiority. Competition is the basis of evolution and that by definition implies winners and losers. The Africans and the Indians were losers and the European powers were winners, as such they exploited and slaughtered to their hearts content. On an individual basis it comes down to meeting your needs for survival and once that is met exceeding them based on your wants. People will always see themselves as #1 (Could you imagine how confusing it would be to innately desire to meet everyone else’s needs but your own?) and if doing something for #1 means screwing someone else over, well… that’s nature for you.

Yetzer ra is merely the name given to that particular aspect of human nature, in the Biblical sense it’s the “fallen” nature of man; the desire to “sin” against others for your own personal benefit. As I said before, there is nothing wrong with meeting your needs. We would all die if we didn’t. It becomes sin when you “trespass against others.”

Yetzer tov is, as I said before, your moral conscience and is essentially what made you decide “this exploitation is immoral (yay!).” People individually have to decide whether to listen to devil on one shoulder (yetzer ra) or the angel on the other (yetzer tov). The one includes fun stuff like exploitation, stealing, murder, slavery, and the like. The other well… doesn’t.

It isn’t exactly hard to tell who nations listen to, but of course the moral conscience of a nation DOES tend to reflect the moral conscience of the people. Sad isn’t it?

We take action to stop bullies.
Why not these guys?
Because... they're minorities?
so fight back just like you would if they were "white"

Yetzer tov is, as I said before, your moral conscience and is essentially what made you decide “this exploitation is immoral (yay!).” People individually have to decide whether to listen to devil on one shoulder (yetzer ra) or the angel on the other (yetzer tov). The one includes fun stuff like exploitation, stealing, murder, slavery, and the like. The other well… doesn’t.

It isn’t exactly hard to tell who nations listen to, but of course the moral conscience of a nation DOES tend to reflect the moral conscience of the people. Sad isn’t it?

Now you've put it in a way I can understand! Cheers - and I don't see owt I disagree with :)

Right. Blame the victim.
This sort of attitude is exactly what perpetuates the problem.

No, I'm not blaming the victim. The victims are the black people whose communities are ruined by these criminals and parasities, and who are unable to get the jobs and education they need because of these people.

You said you wanted educational reform so that black people could take advantage of the opportunities around them.

No I did not. I said I want educational reform so ALL people can take advantage of the opportunities around them.

Actually, the U.S. is becoming more and more of an Oligarchy by the day.

Actually, the U.S. is becoming more and more of an Oligarchy by the day.

It's always been that way, to one degree or another. Thankfully, the Constitution was written with that in mind...

It's always been that way, to one degree or another. Thankfully, the Constitution was written with that in mind...

Exactly, the Constitution is intented to create a sort of "Golden Mean" between Pure Democracy and Oligarchy or Autocracy by drawing from both for stability.

The fact that their people have put together some of the mightiest empires the world has ever seen.

That's like being proud of Daddy for raping so many women.

Also that all because their ancestors fucked up doesn't mean that their whole culture and way of life is shit.

I think there's a case to be made that it does... at least for some considerable time, until the remnants of racist/imperialist culture disintigrate into memories.

No I did not. I said I want educational reform so ALL people can take advantage of the opportunities around them.

But do you not need, in a system for _all_ to take advantage, flexibility? People will have different needs based on their culture, that aren't _inherent_ to them, but enforced upon them - do you not need to take account of that, and so help them differently?

Equity would help more than one-size-fits-all equality, is what I'm saying, based on your premise of helping 'all'.

No I did not. I said I want educational reform so ALL people can take advantage of the opportunities around them.

Im sorry. I thought in a thread about black people we'd be talking about black people. Silly me.