NationStates Jolt Archive

After the South Park episode and thinking back on Tom Cruise's public breakdown in the media I have begun to pull together some opinions on Scientology.

First and foremost, their belief that Lord Xenu dumped billions of aliens into volcanoes in Hawaii and then used Hydrogen Bombs 75,000,000 years ago (and wiped out nearly all life) to destroy them. And THEN put their souls in a big space theater and brainwashed them and then these alien souls latched on to humans is pure BS (if taken literally).

First off, humans (as we are genetically today) didn't exist until the last million to 500,000 years. Second off, any bigtime enviromental changes in earth that could wipe out nearly all life occured 60-65 MILLIONS years ago, not 75 Million years ago.

The whole space theater of alien souls thing is just plain out there so we won't touch that.

But after reading a bunch of info on Wiki I think that the Lord Xenu story is meant to be taken more as a symbolic story than a literal history of creation. The symbols of death, mass confusion, and suffering and that there is hope in the end that comes with understanding of the why of being. At least that is my take on it.


But then we come to the Scientology Anti-Psychology stance. At times it is just plain crazy (pun intended for those in the know of Scientology Dogma on "Chemical Imbalance"), especially when they talk about the lie of Insanity and nonsense like that.

On the other hand they are dead on when it comes to Over-Medication. We ARE being over-prescribed things like Ritalin and other drugs just because it's convenient, but is it safe? The growing number of abusers of Ritalin tell otherwise.

While medication can help, it only helps THOSE WHO REALLY NEED IT! Otherwise using anti-psychotics is dangerous to your health, sanity, and the safety of others around you.

To sum up my thoughts on Scientology. I think that they are "eccentric" at best, but people have the right to believe whatever they wish to believe in so I won't say that Scientology is all bad, it's just not for me.


Just some random thoughts, dissect at your leisure!

Part of my problem with them is, their zealous denouncement of any psychiatry at all just makes it that much harder to reform psychiatry. There are things in the practice of psychiatry (espcially as it relates to medication) that should be examined. But I don't think Tom Cruise recognizes the difference between a child who needs structure (not medication) and a truly, neuropathologically sick individual who needs medication (and structure).

You should all pay a visit to http://www.xenu.net for some info on Scientology...

The organization is led by a man who used to write science fiction. Make your own judgements and draw your own conclusions

The child in Katie Holme's uterus is fathered by Tom Cruise; yes, and I'm Lenin!

On the other hand they are dead on when it comes to Over-Medication. We ARE being over-prescribed things like Ritalin and other drugs just because it's convenient, but is it safe? The growing number of abusers of Ritalin tell otherwise.

While medication can help, it only helps THOSE WHO REALLY NEED IT! Otherwise using anti-psychotics is dangerous to your health, sanity, and the safety of others around you.

Did ADHD become a psychosis in the last 15 minutes or are you just spouting bullshit?

Did ADHD become a psychosis in the last 15 minutes or are you just spouting bullshit?

Would drugs used to treat ADHD be better described as psychotropic? I'm sorry, this is not my area, but I'm willing to learn.

Maybe it was unfair of me to contrast ADHD kids with psychopaths. But the kind of overly broad classification that I'm guilty of here applies equally to the Scientologist premise that nobody ever needs behavioural medication, ever.

Did ADHD become a psychosis in the last 15 minutes or are you just spouting bullshit?

Did you read the whole post or just skim it for something you could pick apart?

Scientology is derived from a book that was admitedly written as a piece of FICTION.

That is how much needs to be said about Scientology.

:cool:

as a subgenius, i eat scientologist pinks for breakfast (and i have a particularly weak digestive system).

regarding the title, "scientology" and "thoughts" should not be used in the same sentence.

Would drugs used to treat ADHD be better described as psychotropic? I'm sorry, this is not my area, but I'm willing to learn.

ADD and ADHD are treated with stimulants. They "wake up" the brain responsible for filtering out distractions.

ADD and ADHD are treated with stimulants. They "wake up" the brain responsible for filtering out distractions.

Thank you.

No more thoughts on Scientology?

Cults don't care about your silly "facts" or "logic." Hell, non-cult religions don't care about them either...

No more thoughts on Scientology?

What is there to say? It's even sillier than the major religions, so there's very little to add to that.

scientology is stupider than eating glue!:rolleyes:

The organization is led by a man who used to write science fiction.
Some say that he continued to write science fiction, and just wanted to see how far he could take the joke.

scientology is stupider than eating glue!:rolleyes:
Please keep in mind that religions can seem stupid to outsiders. Christians eat the "body and blood" of a man who died something like 2000 years ago. Scientologists probably think your religion is stupid too.

As far as ADHD and over-diagnosis. My research shows very little over-diagnosis of medication and Ritalin itself is being fazed out. Studies also show that most children with ADHD show far greater improvement with medication than behavioral therapy (e.g. structure).
Physicians are more likely to prescribe medication now, but that is because of the demand. Think of it this way, you have a very bad case of the flu and you feel like a Mack Truck ran you over, do you want your doctor to say, "Just get plenty of rest and in a couple of days you'll be fine," or do you want the drug that will have you on your feet by morning?
That got off the topic of scientology, slightly, but you get the idea....

Please keep in mind that religions can seem stupid to outsiders. Christians eat the "body and blood" of a man who died something like 2000 years ago. Scientologists probably think your religion is stupid too.

The point being they're all silly.

scientology is stupider than eating glue!:rolleyes:
Stewie Griffin eats glue...

"Church of Scientology: Some thoughts"

You said "thoughts" and "scientology" in the same sentance! :eek:

"Church of Scientology: Some thoughts"

You said "thoughts" and "scientology" in the same sentance! :eek:

You didn't read the thread. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10074849&postcount=10) :eek:

"Church of Scientology: Some thoughts"

You said "thoughts" and "scientology" in the same sentance! :eek:

How about a revised title?

"Church of Scientology: Some Electrical Impuslses in the Brain Controlled by Alien Ghosts"

Cult! Cult, it's a cult!

The test of the national cult alert system is now ended, it was only a test. No, just kidding, they really are a cult. Run for your lives!

You didn't read the thread. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10074849&postcount=10) :eek:
LOL! True, true. It's time-consuming to wade through dozens of posts just to avoid being a tad repetitive. Besides ... I said it better! :p

Cult! Cult, it's a cult!

The test of the national cult alert system is now ended, it was only a test. No, just kidding, they really are a cult. Run for your lives!
No shit, Sherlock! Duh! :D

Is anyone on here a Scientologist?

Desperate Measures']Is anyone on here a Scientologist?
God, I hope not! [ looks frantically all around! ] :eek:

LOL! True, true. It's time-consuming to wade through dozens of posts just to avoid being a tad repetitive.

Changing the posts per page display to 40 makes browsing threads a lot easier. They hardly get to be over three pages that way. :)

Besides ... I said it better! :p

If you say so.

Next thing you know they are going to say that everything was created in seven days and the woman was created from the rib of and man and that people turned into pillars of salt and there was this ark and he rose from the dead and god talked to him in a cave and god gave him sacred stones and there are 177,000 spots in heaven and 70 virgins await you martyrs and...
Oh wait that's not scientology.

Changing the posts per page display to 40 makes browsing threads a lot easier. They hardly get to be over three pages that way. :)

If you say so.
I do, and with ample justification, I might add. :D

Um ... guess what! Changing the number of pages does NOT decrease the number of posts! LOL! :p

I do, and with ample justification, I might add. :D

My dear sir, ample you've got up the wazoo.

Um ... guess what! Changing the number of pages does NOT decrease the number of posts! LOL! :p

Umm, guess what "browsing" and "easier" mean!

My dear sir, ample you've got up the wazoo.

Umm, guess what "browsing" and "easier" mean!
ROFLMFAO!!! Touche! :D

However ... the comment I made, if you will ... like, you know ... read the post I made, commented on the number of posts, not the number of pages! :p

Do what you will -- harm none.

That said, that South Park epiode proved to me that Parker and Stone are the foremost social critics in this recent era. I laughed my ass off. Something about accuracy combined with blazingly incisive satire makes me very happy, no matter who does it. I'm Liberal, and I like it when the Right scores a direct, legitimate hit on the Left (this is, sadly, kinda rare, but I like to call them when I see them). That's why I dig South Park. They've skewered Scientology and Mormonism by merely saying out loud what their tenets are. In the case of the Mormon episode ("dum dum dum dum dummm!"), they let the Mormons have the last word, effectively: "it may seem weird to you, but it's what I believe and it makes me and my family happy...so suck my balls." Which, to me, shows that it doesn't matter what you believe until it starts infringing upon others' rights.

South Park has also completely flamed the PC movement (MANY times and perfectly accurately), the 2000 Florida election, hypersensitivity and the "right" to not be offended, PETA (who really deserved it, btw), and all kinds of institutions and people across the political spectrum. They're brilliant, and the recent Scientology and AA episodes prove it.

Scientology is derived from a book that was admitedly written as a piece of FICTION.

That is how much needs to be said about Scientology.

:cool:
Not quite true.
The early articles on dianetics were published as fact, despite appearing in a science fiction magazine: this was the point where John W Campbell was honking on about all sorts of ridiculous nonsense like the Dean Drive, and Hubbard's own drivel fit in nicely with that.

I prefer the Ralien cult to Scientology - Raliens are much funnier.

I prefer the Ralien cult to Scientology - Raliens are much funnier.
The nuts who comitted mass suicide so that they could leave with the Halle Boppe comet?

Next thing you know they are going to say that everything was created in seven days and the woman was created from the rib of and man and that people turned into pillars of salt and there was this ark and he rose from the dead and god talked to him in a cave and god gave him sacred stones and there are 177,000 spots in heaven and 70 virgins await you martyrs and...
Oh wait that's not scientology.

Please keep in mind that religions can seem stupid to outsiders. Christians eat the "body and blood" of a man who died something like 2000 years ago. Scientologists probably think your religion is stupid too.

Yeah, but while aliens and volcanoes add to the silliness of Scientology, they're not exactly the problem, which is that Scientology is a cult.

As much as I appreciate Scientology getting the sceptical treatment in the press because of Cruise's plunge off the deep end, I'm endlessly frustrated at what they cover. Sure, aliens and volcanoes are funny, and ooh, look at him ranting about psychology - but no major American news source (please correct me if I missed something there) has the balls to do a decent piece of investigative journalism on the whole thing. I have no idea why - they can't just all be afraid that Scientology is going to sue them?!

Scientology is a cult, a brain-washing cult, leading its members into financial ruin (oh, not the celebrity spokespeople, mind you), kept running to a large part through members' slave-like work, threatening those who want to leave the cult as well as those critical towards it.

Scientology has very big and very murky international financial holdings, which, for example, is the prime reason they've been trying for years (in vain, thankfully) to be officially recognized as a church in Germany - to get the tax-exempt status churches have.

If you want to know more important things about Scientology than the latest Tom Cruise couch jumping headlines, by all means go the website given by Efrafria above: http://www.xenu.net/

In the words of failed science fiction writer & Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard: "Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wanted to make a million dollars, the best way to do it would be start his own religion."

°°° sorry for the long, ranty post, but this whole thing frustrates the hell out of me °°°

The organization is led by a man who used to write science fiction. Make your own judgements and draw your own conclusions

The child in Katie Holme's uterus is fathered by Tom Cruise; yes, and I'm Lenin!
Hubbard was quoted early in his career as saying that if he wanted to be a millionaire, he'd start his own religion. Later on he did exactly that.

I often suspect that Hubbard didn't believe in his own religion. In fact, sometimes I think he made his made-up faith as ridiculous as possible, just to see whether or not anyone would fall for such absurd claptrap. He seems to have succeeded beyond his wildest expectations. If so, then you have to respect the guy - he proved that P. T. Barnum radically underestimated the birth rate of suckers. And anything designed to scam money from complete idiots gets my approval.

:p

Yeah, but while aliens and volcanoes add to the silliness of Scientology, they're not exactly the problem, which is that Scientology is a cult.

As much as I appreciate Scientology getting the sceptical treatment in the press because of Cruise's plunge off the deep end, I'm endlessly frustrated at what they cover. Sure, aliens and volcanoes are funny, and ooh, look at him ranting about psychology - but no major American news source (please correct me if I missed something there) has the balls to do a decent piece of investigative journalism on the whole thing. I have no idea why - they can't just all be afraid that Scientology is going to sue them?!
They probably are worried about getting sued: a couple of excellent exposes of the cult have been removed from print due to nuisance lawsuits and harrassment of the publishers and authors. The $cientologists keep a big fat fund to hand in order to hassle their adversaries.

Scientology is a money church but in that regard it isn't any different than manny other churches including Islamic Jewish and Christian Churches as well as the churches with smaller followings.

Scientology has no right to critic psychology when it offers audits as a replacement. Where else but in Scientology can you find a therapists with 20+ patients who where George Washington in a previus life. It is unfurtunite that Tom Cruise got cought up in the thing. It is just as bad as any one else getting cought up in any other delusion Christianity included ( poor bastards ).

The nuts who comitted mass suicide so that they could leave with the Halle Boppe comet?

No, that's "Heaven's Gate." The Raelians were the ones who lied about cloning people and had a very scary spokesperson (children should shield their eyes):

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/HEALTH/12/27/human.cloning/story.boisselier.jpg

They probably are worried about getting sued: a couple of excellent exposes of the cult have been removed from print due to nuisance lawsuits and harrassment of the publishers and authors. The $cientologists keep a big fat fund to hand in order to hassle their adversaries.

Yeah, I know, but there have been lots of those exposes over the years here (Germany), actually starting quite some time ago, I remember it was a pretty big topic in the early nineties, if not even late eighties. And obviously they'd have the same risk of being sued and probably even were, but nothing ever came out of it. So, when you stick to the facts when you publish something, they can't really sue you, right? Or rather, they'll probably still sue you but either the suit will get dismissed or they'll lose. So I don't really see a problem there.

I'm honestly baffled at the lack of any more in-depth coverage - is it really this (irrational) fear of lawsuits or is it just disinterest?

Doesn't it just scare the hell out of you that one evil organisation like that can have that tight a grip on the media of a whole country, especially one that always prides itself on its freedom of speech and press? *this is not intended as a slight to the US, just an honest question*

foremost, their belief that Lord Xenu dumped billions of aliens into volcanoes in Hawaii and then used Hydrogen Bombs 75,000,000 years ago (and wiped out nearly all life) to destroy them. And THEN put their souls in a big space theater and brainwashed them and then these alien souls latched on to humans is pure BS (if taken literally).

You have heared about Scientology from no other source than South Park, right? That was a joke by South Park; Scientologist(well, most of them, anyway) don't actually believe that. I hate it when people use political cartoons as sources of information. Also, "Hydrogen Bombs" is a common noun, and therefor should not be capitalized.

Not quite true.
The early articles on dianetics were published as fact, despite appearing in a science fiction magazine: this was the point where John W Campbell was honking on about all sorts of ridiculous nonsense like the Dean Drive, and Hubbard's own drivel fit in nicely with that.
Hubbard was quoted by numerous people as saying that there was more money to be made in starting a religion than there was in writing science fiction. Sounds like he was admitting to writing more fiction to me.

:cool:

You have heared about Scientology from no other source than South Park, right? That was a joke by South Park; Scientologist(well, most of them, anyway) don't actually believe that. I hate it when people use political cartoons as sources of information. Also, "Hydrogen Bombs" is a common noun, and therefor should not be capitalized.


Um, no, South Park didn't make that up:

>> The science fiction content of Scientology is revealed to them after they have reached the state they call "Clear", meaning freed from the aberrations of the mind. However, perhaps "brainwashed" would be a more applicable word to describe the mental state of someone who has survived the near entire delusional contents of their subconscious mind brought to the surface and presented to them as "truth". On the "advanced" levels (called OT levels) above the state of "Clear" they encounter the story of Xenu. Xenu was supposed to have gathered up all the overpopulation in this sector of the galaxy, brought them to Earth and then exterminated them using hydrogen bombs. The souls of these murdered people are then supposed to infest the body of everyone. They are called "body thetans". On the advanced levels of Scientology a person "audits out" these body thetans telepathically by getting them to re-experience their being exterminated by hydrogen bombs. So people on these levels assume all their bad thoughts and faulty memories are due to these body thetans infesting every part of their body and influencing them mentally. Many Scientologists go raving mad at this point if they have not done so already.<<

Source: http://www.xenu.net/roland-intro.html

This also explains why "most Scientologist" do probably indeed not believe in this - they haven't gotten to those advanced levels yet.

regarding the title, "scientology" and "thoughts" should not be used in the same sentence.

on the contrary, thoughts are the antidote to $cientology. it's the stuff the group does to stop their marks from thinking that also does the damage.

and no, NeoMishakal, no matter what you read on Wiki that story is meant to be taken literally. if you were a member of $camintology, you wouldn't be allowed to know that story until you were far enough in that you'd paid a lot of money and made enough of a commitment. then, you'd be expected to believe it just as it is. and if you didn't you'd be getting punished for questioning the 'infallible' words of one of the worst sci-fi writers who ever lived (the man who gave us Battlefield Earth).

- snip -

Yeah, but if you do believe everything and are a really, really good little Scientologist, you'll eventually be rewarded with the powers of teleportation! Tadaaaahh!

No fucking kidding, either.



Gah. Can you tell I hate these guys?

Some say that he continued to write science fiction, and just wanted to see how far he could take the joke.

some say it, but it's plain that he wasn't joking. that old mother, hubbard, deliberately created a money-making scam, and also deliberately created an international espionage organization that he deployed against several world governments, and many many more large organizations (including the press) and individuals that criticized him and $cientology. he also created a series of organizations and structures for terrorizing and controlling $cientologists to discourage them from criticizing or leaving. and always, the economic structures of the group are constructed according to the dictum "make money ... make more money ... make others make more money".

and then there are the strange deaths that have taken place from time to time.

if any of this is a joke, I'm not getting the punch-line.

as a subgenius, i eat scientologist pinks for breakfast (and i have a particularly weak digestive system).

"Bob"!!!

Some say that he continued to write science fiction, and just wanted to see how far he could take the joke.
Reminds me of a jeff foxworthy joke

Paraphrazed
"My uncle wrote MALE on our mailbox as a joke one time ... but no body got it"

...
I'm endlessly frustrated at what they cover. Sure, aliens and volcanoes are funny, and ooh, look at him ranting about psychology - but no major American news source (please correct me if I missed something there) has the balls to do a decent piece of investigative journalism on the whole thing. I have no idea why - they can't just all be afraid that Scientology is going to sue them?!

...

If you want to know more important things about Scientology than the latest Tom Cruise couch jumping headlines, by all means go the website given by Efrafria above: http://www.xenu.net/

In the words of failed science fiction writer & Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard: "Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wanted to make a million dollars, the best way to do it would be start his own religion."

°°° sorry for the long, ranty post, but this whole thing frustrates the hell out of me °°°

I agree with your 1st point. the press seems determined to miss the forest for the trees.

but as for no American investigative journalism, I think you should qualify that and say there's been nothing recently. go back to the 90s and you have Time magazine and the LA Times, and you have the NYTimes (I think it was) exposing the scandal of our IRS making a dirty deal with $cientology. even though there was a lot of work put into hushing that up, the details of that deal are available now thanks to those journalists. what we really need now is for people to get mad enough to go to our congressmen with it and get it reversed!

and yes, they are scared of being sued. worse, they are scared of being blackmailed by $cientology (see Jon Atack's book A Piece of Blue Sky for examples of how they've blackmailed or attempted to blackmail various people who could expose them). the http://www.xenu.net/ site is also good to have here and a public service. thanks for posting it.

don't sweat the long post - at least one person is glad you made it (me). the thing is long posts sometimes are the only way to get past the surface stuff to what matters. thanks.

Yeah, I know, but there have been lots of those exposes over the years here (Germany), actually starting quite some time ago, I remember it was a pretty big topic in the early nineties, if not even late eighties. And obviously they'd have the same risk of being sued and probably even were, but nothing ever came out of it. So, when you stick to the facts when you publish something, they can't really sue you, right? Or rather, they'll probably still sue you but either the suit will get dismissed or they'll lose. So I don't really see a problem there.

I'm honestly baffled at the lack of any more in-depth coverage - is it really this (irrational) fear of lawsuits or is it just disinterest?

Doesn't it just scare the hell out of you that one evil organisation like that can have that tight a grip on the media of a whole country, especially one that always prides itself on its freedom of speech and press? *this is not intended as a slight to the US, just an honest question*

the laws in Germany and some other parts of Europe are a lot different from the laws here in the states and in the UK, where they can be manipulated easily to cripple someone with more facts than money. it's easier in the USA and the UK to drive someone bankrupt during pretrial before they ever have a chance to put their evidence to the test in court. if you have enough money (like $cientology does) then 9 times out of 10 you can silence your critics even if they have you dead to rights.

the other 1 in 10 times, you can spend a lot of money to make people forget that you've been caught with your pants down (also like $cientology). so, how many people here remember hearing about when a bunch of really senior $cientologists including Hubbard's wife were sent to prison for spying on over a dozen US government departments? how many people remember that the only reason Hubbard himself wasn't also sent to prison for it is that the rest of the organization hid him from arrest? even though his signature appears on a number of the documents instructing the spies? even though he wrote the training manuals on how to burgle and spy on 'enemies'? even though he boasted to a class of $cientologists back in the 60s that he was spying on governments including the brits?

right. you don't remember it because a group like $cientology can afford to pay whatever it takes to make sure it doesn't stay in the public mind. they can pay for any amount of propaganda and any number of celebrity endorsements to keep us from being reminded of it.

You have heared about Scientology from no other source than South Park, right? That was a joke by South Park; Scientologist(well, most of them, anyway) don't actually believe that. I hate it when people use political cartoons as sources of information. Also, "Hydrogen Bombs" is a common noun, and therefor should not be capitalized.

so Zombie Alliance, you won't mind reading up on the subject from serious sources before you assume that the only evidence is the South Park cartoon, right? look up some of the information that came out in the case of the US Government -v- the Church of Scientology. the OT levels, the training routines and all the rest. look up the vast amount of information that came out in the case between Lawrence Wollersheim and $cientology.

there's more, much much more, but those are two good places to start. South Park isn't the source of the information about the cult and that stuff about the dead space aliens and the hydrogen bombs and volcanoes and all the rest - it's no joke. I wish it was.

a lot of $cientologists don't know about it all only because they aren't allowed to know it at first. it's secret stuff and it's only meant for "higher levels" of $cientologists. Hubbard himself claimed that if a person reads the "OT3" material that explains about the dead space aliens and volcanoes without the proper training and preparation, he'll die within days from pneumonia.

I'm still here. but that old mother, Hubbard, isn't. interpretations anyone? :D

Yeah, but if you do believe everything and are a really, really good little Scientologist, you'll eventually be rewarded with the powers of teleportation! Tadaaaahh!

No fucking kidding, either.



Gah. Can you tell I hate these guys?

that's only one of the powers they keep wishing they could have - and don't. as the saying goes, "if there was even one real OT in there, none of us critics of $cientology would exist."

I don't hate them. not even the poison dwarf. but I do feel very, very sorry for them.

that old mother, Hubbard, he's a different story though. :sniper: :mp5:

Um, no, South Park didn't make that up:

>> The science fiction content of Scientology is revealed to them after they have reached the state they call "Clear", meaning freed from the aberrations of the mind. However, perhaps "brainwashed" would be a more applicable word to describe the mental state of someone who has survived the near entire delusional contents of their subconscious mind brought to the surface and presented to them as "truth". On the "advanced" levels (called OT levels) above the state of "Clear" they encounter the story of Xenu. Xenu was supposed to have gathered up all the overpopulation in this sector of the galaxy, brought them to Earth and then exterminated them using hydrogen bombs. The souls of these murdered people are then supposed to infest the body of everyone. They are called "body thetans". On the advanced levels of Scientology a person "audits out" these body thetans telepathically by getting them to re-experience their being exterminated by hydrogen bombs. So people on these levels assume all their bad thoughts and faulty memories are due to these body thetans infesting every part of their body and influencing them mentally. Many Scientologists go raving mad at this point if they have not done so already.<<

Source: http://www.xenu.net/roland-intro.html

This also explains why "most Scientologist" do probably indeed not believe in this - they haven't gotten to those advanced levels yet.

You forgot the part where they scream and jump on the couch and weird out Oprah Winfrey.

You forgot the part where they scream and jump on the couch and weird out Oprah Winfrey.

no laughing matter. Cruise could end up paying out a small fortune for 'repair auditing' or worse. if they decide he's been enturbulated through contact with a 'Suppressive Person' the Ethics auditing will have him wishing they'd get around to writing another sequel to Mission Impossible.

no laughing matter. Cruise could end up paying out a small fortune for 'repair auditing' or worse. if they decide he's been enturbulated through contact with a 'Suppressive Person' the Ethics auditing will have him wishing they'd get around to writing another sequel to Mission Impossible.

He doesn't have to wish for that (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/mission_impossible_3/). :p

As far as ADHD and over-diagnosis. My research shows very little over-diagnosis of medication and Ritalin itself is being fazed out. Studies also show that most children with ADHD show far greater improvement with medication than behavioral therapy (e.g. structure).
Physicians are more likely to prescribe medication now, but that is because of the demand. .

Much interesting. Do you remember the where the studies were published? I don't have kids, but it would be an interesting read.

The nuts who comitted mass suicide so that they could leave with the Halle Boppe comet?

The Halle Boppe bunch were "Heaven's Gate". The Raelians believe that their leader, a french race car driver, was contacted by aliens and ordered to be build an embassy for alien contact. If you're bored some time, have a look at www.RickRoss.com, sometimes its a cool site.

The Halle Boppe bunch were "Heaven's Gate". The Raelians believe that their leader, a french race car driver, was contacted by aliens and ordered to be build an embassy for alien contact. If you're bored some time, have a look at www.RickRoss.com, sometimes its a cool site.
That's a bit unusual. Still, they seem harmless enough.

Did anyone get to see Andy Dick's skit on Last Laugh 05 on Comedy Central last night?

Now THAT was funny... I liked the Scientology Children's Choir the best...

Did anyone get to see Andy Dick's skit on Last Laugh 05 on Comedy Central last night?

Now THAT was funny... I liked the Scientology Children's Choir the best...

WHAT?! I missed a take-off of the $cientology children being used as performing seals?
:headbang:

seriously, the way they treat the kids is one of the things that bothers me most.

I agree with your 1st point. the press seems determined to miss the forest for the trees.

but as for no American investigative journalism, I think you should qualify that and say there's been nothing recently. go back to the 90s and you have Time magazine and the LA Times, and you have the NYTimes (I think it was) exposing the scandal of our IRS making a dirty deal with $cientology.

Ah, thanks for the info. However, it is indeed the very fact that there is nothing coming out now that bothers me so much.

The world's biggest movie star is imploding in slow motion on every channel, complete with grandiose rants, jumping on couches, brand-new blink-and-you'll-miss-it pregnant fiancee, all in the name of some obscure "religion" - and all we get from the media are snarky articles in the gossip pages and a shrug?


it's easier in the USA and the UK to drive someone bankrupt during pretrial before they ever have a chance to put their evidence to the test in court. if you have enough money (like $cientology does) then 9 times out of 10 you can silence your critics even if they have you dead to rights.

I didn't know that - so I guess Cahnt above was right, they really are just that afraid. And you're right, of course, reminding me of the blackmailing/threats.
However, let's say the New York Times did a big investigative piece - do you really honestly think Scientology could stop them? Sure, they'd crank up their PR machinery, but the cat would be out of the bag.

And, honestly, I think that would be a wake-up call to many people. I've been very surprised to see how many people in the US know nothing about Scientology except that it's this celebrity thing, like Kabbalah. Not that I know very much about it, but I'd always kind of assumed that everybody knew it's a dangerous cult. But I've even seen it confused with "Christian Science". Personally, I think that that's in large part due to them calling themselves "Church of Scientology" - to me, that makes them sound a lot more serious and respectable, and that's one of the reasons I'm so grateful they can't call themselves "Church" of anything here.


that's only one of the powers they keep wishing they could have - and don't. as the saying goes, "if there was even one real OT in there, none of us critics of $cientology would exist."
Wouldn't that be cool, though? "Hey, look, there's CrazyBoy Cruise teleporting Oprah's couch again!" :D


I don't hate them. not even the poison dwarf. but I do feel very, very sorry for them.
that old mother, Hubbard, he's a different story though. :sniper: :mp5:
That came across wrong - I meant I hate Scientology, as in the evil organization, not as in the people having been brainwashed into believing in it.


Okay, one last question, since you seem to know so much about this:

I've read somewhere that the reason Tom Cruise suddenly went barking mad (after years of steady but quiet Scientology membership) might be that he just attained one of those upper OT levels (and probably learned about the little green men, yay!). That seem plausible to you?

The child in Katie Holme's uterus is fathered by Tom Cruise; yes, and I'm Lenin!
You're Lenin!?!?!?!

I'm pretty sure that Katie's kid is Tom Cruise's... But I lean towards the idea that good ole Tommy beat off to some men's fitness magazines and had doctors do the old test tube baby trick on katie...

Oh I kid Tom Cruise! I'm sure that if he was gay he would of come out of the closet by now!

Right?:confused:

Okay, one last question, since you seem to know so much about this:

I've read somewhere that the reason Tom Cruise suddenly went barking mad (after years of steady but quiet Scientology membership) might be that he just attained one of those upper OT levels (and probably learned about the little green men, yay!). That seem plausible to you?
Very plausible: there's a few suggestions that this is precisely what's happened. (It's also been suggested that Cruise is abstaining from the media at the moment because a few of the high ups decided that he was becoming an embarrassment: somebody going raving mad on the telly isn't the image they're hoping to project, in all likelihood...)
Have you seen that tomcruiseisnuts.com site?

Are these the same people that can't get blood transfusions or chemotherapy or any of that good stuff?

My mom said scientology seemed 'interesting' to her. *jaw hit floor*

Are these the same people that can't get blood transfusions or chemotherapy or any of that good stuff?

My mom said scientology seemed 'interesting' to her. *jaw hit floor*

No, youre thinking of Christian Science, (oxymoron).

They believe, if God wants you to get better...you will.

i dont know that it counts as an exposee, but an albuquerque tv station did a report last month on a big scientology compound out in the middle of no where. it turns out to be some kind of archive that will be kept forever including hubbards writings etched into stainless steel tablets.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/26/AR2005112601065.html

its a quick article worth the read.

Scientology is derived from a book that was admitedly written as a piece of FICTION.

is that why it's teachings sound like the plot of a shitty sci fi movie?

...

I didn't know that - so I guess Cahnt above was right, they really are just that afraid. And you're right, of course, reminding me of the blackmailing/threats.
However, let's say the New York Times did a big investigative piece - do you really honestly think Scientology could stop them? Sure, they'd crank up their PR machinery, but the cat would be out of the bag. ...

I've read somewhere that the reason Tom Cruise suddenly went barking mad (after years of steady but quiet Scientology membership) might be that he just attained one of those upper OT levels (and probably learned about the little green men, yay!). That seem plausible to you?


Cruise learned the secret of the "little green men" as you call them back at OT3. but each time you do an OT level after 3, you do more and more self-auditing for "body-thetans" as part of the level. he's way past OT3, (OT8 I think - does anybody know for sure?) and not everybody does well with all the wierd shit you have to do to get to the end of the process.

it's completely possible he went kinda manic in his last level. it's happened to $cientologists even before getting to the OT levels. Atack tells of one such person in his book (A Piece of Blue Sky in the chapter "the Death of Susan Meister", starting at page 197.)


Atack's book is worth getting generally. read it, and you'll also get a good idea of why even the Times would rather avoid kicking over the rock that hides $cientology from the sunlight. notice how $cientology attacks anybody that criticizes them and how their first line of surviving exposure is to destroy the people exposing them. look at it this way: if they can keep the NYTimes tied up in pretrial and bankrupt them before the case gets into court, they'd never have to answer the case in court. they win by default. this is a tactic they've used repeatedly against critics.

then look at what happens when that doesn't win a case. they "somehow" get the courts to let them have unusual concessions. for example, they once got the courts to limit how long the public could have access to the court records (which included information $cientology wants to keep secret). then they filled the line of "the public" waiting to get in for copies with their own people, so that hardly any ordinary people could get the copies before the time expired. from then on they attacked and harassed the ordinary people who did get copies.

it's hard to escape the conclusion that Hubbard's instructions on how to control public officials by blackmail and harassment have been followed with key figures including judges, resulting in them getting special treatment even when they lose a case.

there's a good link to start from: Operation Clambake (http://www.xenu.net). I'd be surprised if you can't get to most of the documentation you might want from there. they might even have a link to Atack's book there in a pdf format.

have a look for how $cientology treated Paulette Cooper too. when you remind yourself that this stuff isn't rogue behavior, it's official policy straight from that old mother, Hubbard, you can start to see what they're all about..

First and foremost, their belief that Lord Xenu dumped billions of aliens into volcanoes in Hawaii and then used Hydrogen Bombs 75,000,000 years ago (and wiped out nearly all life) to destroy them. And THEN put their souls in a big space theater and brainwashed them and then these alien souls latched on to humans is pure BS (if taken literally).


The whole space theater of alien souls thing is just plain out there so we won't touch that.

But after reading a bunch of info on Wiki ...

Just some random thoughts, dissect at your leisure!

What?! They actually believe that? And here I was thinking that scientologists were vaguely, well, earth-bound in their beliefs. I thought they just didn't agree with modern medicine, among other things. Man, now I need to punch a Scientologist. With a brick.

Oh, and one more thing. Don't base too much on Wiki, as it is editable by any sap off the street.

Atack's book is worth getting generally. read it, and you'll also get a good idea of why even the Times would rather avoid kicking over the rock that hides $cientology from the sunlight. notice how $cientology attacks anybody that criticizes them and how their first line of surviving exposure is to destroy the people exposing them. look at it this way: if they can keep the NYTimes tied up in pretrial and bankrupt them before the case gets into court, they'd never have to answer the case in court. they win by default. this is a tactic they've used repeatedly against critics.

then look at what happens when that doesn't win a case. they "somehow" get the courts to let them have unusual concessions. for example, they once got the courts to limit how long the public could have access to the court records (which included information $cientology wants to keep secret). then they filled the line of "the public" waiting to get in for copies with their own people, so that hardly any ordinary people could get the copies before the time expired. from then on they attacked and harassed the ordinary people who did get copies.


Not to mention they've tried to kill people who tried to leave Scientology, or sued them, or defamed them.

If you go through their e-meter sessions, you're basically telling them all your deep dark secrets. Which they conveniently record.

What bugs me most about Scientology is their brutal suppression of criticism inside and outside their "church". They do try very hard to keep their congregation from finding out the truth about their religion.

http://www.scientology-kills.org/

Not to mention they've tried to kill people who tried to leave Scientology, or sued them, or defamed them.

If you go through their e-meter sessions, you're basically telling them all your deep dark secrets. Which they conveniently record.

Yeah, I love that part. How can people be so gullible/stupid?

Have you seen that tomcruiseisnuts.com site?
Yeah, I've seen it. Has it been shut down yet? ;)

there's a good link to start from: . I'd be surprised if you can't get to most of the documentation you might want from there. they might even have a link to Atack's book there in a pdf format.
Me no see linky...? :(


As for threats/harassment:


I just searched xenu.net for two letters I saw there a while back, but I can't find them - sounds like they had to take them down or be sued. Damn, I should have saved them. Now I only remember the basics.

It was a couple of scanned letters (dating back to the 60s, I think) from top-level Scientology management to the staff, typewritten, signed and all.

One was this guide-line on who constitutes an "enemy" of Scientology (everyone critical in any way whatsoever) and on how to treat those enemies.
It stopped short of saying outright "Kill 'em all!" but if I recall correctly, the language was something like "It would be best to get rid of them" - expressly formulated to possibly mean lots of different things from "Call the police on any picket line in front of our headquarters" to, well, "Kill 'em all."

Then, a few years (!) later, that guide-line seems to accidentally have become public and they had some explaining and backpaddling to do.

To witness: the second letter, which ran along the following lines:

Well, that letter from a few years ago wasn't received so well in the outside world, maybe we shouldn't have written it. Hereby, we declare that letter ineffective.
Please note that this only applies to the letter, not to the guide-lines established in it, which of course will continue to be in effect.

Can you f*cking believe that? They actually wrote that (well, not those exact words, obivously, but words to that exact effect). Reading those letters was the point when I really got scared.


So - I know you're right and all about how powerful and dangerous they are, but I still think it must be possible for the media to somehow put them on the spot. It must be, dammit!

Yeah, I love that part. How can people be so gullible/stupid?

this is the hard part, Ftagn. understanding how this happens to people isn't easy. I didn't really get it till a friend who's a psychologist explained what goes on with people in this kind of thing. he says it has something to do with changing people's perception of things. once you do that, they start acting according to how they perceive the world even if their perceptions are wildly inaccurate. he says it's similar to hypnosis but it's more subtle and the effects last longer and involve your whole life, not just a part of it. that's what I remember of what he said. he could explain it better if he came in here. he even demonstrated it for me by hypnotizing me and videoing me trying to fry eggs in my cap. first he confinced me that my cap was a frying pan, then he told me my candles were eggs and my birthday cards were slices of toast. by the time he was finished, he had me trying to eat candles between 2 greeting cards.

the one thing I'm pretty sure of after everything he's told me is that you don't have to be gullible or stupid to get involved. don't make that mistake. all you have to do is be human and talk to them. if the right person has the right conversations with you at the right time in your life, you're going to be attracted to $cientology. what you do about that attraction could hammer the whole rest of your life.

also try this: gullible? not really (http://www.xenu.net/archive/personal_story/funkydonny.html)

Yeah, I've seen it. Has it been shut down yet? ;)


Me no see linky...? :(
...



thanks for that - I missed it when I looked it over. I've fixed the link in the original, or you can have this:

Operation Clambake (http://www.xenu.net/)

sorry you had to wait. :)

still[/I] think it must be possible for the media to somehow put them on the spot. It must be, dammit!


One small problem... the media is controlled by hollywood... and as seeing that the majority of all hollywood stars belong to the church of scientology because its the "in" thing now, actors like tom cruise, katie holms and even in the music buisness like britney spears*cough* all go there, so the media will never in know way take action against the church of scientology.. it just wouldnt be the "in" thing to do

One small problem... the media is controlled by hollywood... and as seeing that the majority of all hollywood stars belong to the church of scientology because its the "in" thing now, actors like tom cruise, katie holms and even in the music buisness like britney spears*cough* all go there, so the media will never in know way take action against the church of scientology.. it just wouldnt be the "in" thing to do
really? I thought Kabala was the "in" thing right now........hmm............


I do see what you mean though, I doubt that the media would ever report on it, because if you make the celebs mad, then you aren't going to get anymore cheesy "exclusives" from them

really? I thought Kabala was the "in" thing right now........hmm............




Kabala was in for a while... but then Madonna joined and everyone was like "ah hell no"

really? I thought Kabala was the "in" thing right now........hmm............


I do see what you mean though, I doubt that the media would ever report on it, because if you make the celebs mad, then you aren't going to get anymore cheesy "exclusives" from them
But I also haven't seen many favorable articles on Scientology.

But I also haven't seen many favorable articles on Scientology.


with tom cruise as theyre front man, positive reviews are in "short" supply..."i thank you"

i have really gotta start using the correct form of words.

...

I just searched xenu.net for two letters I saw there a while back, but I can't find them - sounds like they had to take them down or be sued. Damn, I should have saved them. Now I only remember the basics.

It was a couple of scanned letters (dating back to the 60s, I think) from top-level Scientology management to the staff, typewritten, signed and all.

One was this guide-line on who constitutes an "enemy" of Scientology (everyone critical in any way whatsoever) and on how to treat those enemies.
It stopped short of saying outright "Kill 'em all!" but if I recall correctly, the language was something like "It would be best to get rid of them" - expressly formulated to possibly mean lots of different things from "Call the police on any picket line in front of our headquarters" to, well, "Kill 'em all."

Then, a few years (!) later, that guide-line seems to accidentally have become public and they had some explaining and backpaddling to do.

To witness: the second letter, which ran along the following lines:

Well, that letter from a few years ago wasn't received so well in the outside world, maybe we shouldn't have written it. Hereby, we declare that letter ineffective.
Please note that this only applies to the letter, not to the guide-lines established in it, which of course will continue to be in effect.
...

unless I'm very mistaken, you're talking about the (in)famous "Fair Game" policy letter. dates back to the 60s, when old mother-f* Hubbard first decided that 'enemies' of $cientology can be "sued tricked, lied to or destroyed". they did follow that with another letter some time later, saying that the policy name was discontinued but that the policy would remain in effect. basically they go through this charade of pretending to cancel fair game for the public and keeping it active for insiders so they can keep using it. and they still use it. again, read the link I gave and read Atack's book.

Don't forget the quote from good ol' Mr. Hubbard.

"If you really wanted to make money, you'd start a religion."

Well, that's not the exact quote, but that's basically it. I cannot recall the exact words.

unless I'm very mistaken, you're talking about the (in)famous "Fair Game" policy letter. dates back to the 60s, when old mother-f* Hubbard first decided that 'enemies' of $cientology can be "sued tricked, lied to or destroyed". they did follow that with another letter some time later, saying that the policy name was discontinued but that the policy would remain in effect. basically they go through this charade of pretending to cancel fair game for the public and keeping it active for insiders so they can keep using it. and they still use it. again, read the link I gave and read Atack's book.


can you re post the link im to lazy to search the forum for it

One small problem... the media is controlled by hollywood...

Huh? How is the media "controlled by Hollywood?" We're not talking People Magazine here.


and as seeing that the majority of all hollywood stars belong to the church of scientology because its the "in" thing now, actors like tom cruise, katie holms

Um, no, "the majority of all Hollywood stars" do not belong to Scientology. Between the big stars (Cruise, Travolta) and the minor celebrities (Juliette Lewis, Jason Lee (yeah, I know :( )) I would guess it's about a dozen more or less well known names. Not exactly what I would call "the majority of all Hollywood stars."


And what on earth gives you the idea that Scientology is the "in" thing? Just because Tom Cruise splashed its name all over the TV screens, that doesn't make it an "in" thing, considering how awfully bad he made himself look and how badly his popularity suffered.


and even in the music buisness like britney spears*cough* all go there,
Britney Spears doesn't belong to Scientology. Last thing I heard, she was safely in Kabbalah's clutches.

can you re post the link im to lazy to search the forum for it

The link is http://www.xenu.net/. It's been mentioned all over this thread.


unless I'm very mistaken, you're talking about the (in)famous "Fair Game" policy letter. dates back to the 60s, when old mother-f* Hubbard first decided that 'enemies' of $cientology can be "sued tricked, lied to or destroyed". they did follow that with another letter some time later, saying that the policy name was discontinued but that the policy would remain in effect. basically they go through this charade of pretending to cancel fair game for the public and keeping it active for insiders so they can keep using it. and they still use it. again, read the link I gave and read Atack's book.

Yes, that's the one. But, like I said, I just searched xenu.net for it and I can't find it. I found something that looked a lot like they had to take it down before being sued, though.

can you re post the link im to lazy to search the forum for it

and ...
Operation Clambake (http://www.xenu.net/)

and see
A Piece of Blue Sky (http://www.clambake.org/archive/books/apobs/)

The link is http://www.xenu.net/. It's been mentioned all over this thread.




Yes, that's the one. But, like I said, I just searched xenu.net for it and I can't find it. I found something that looked a lot like they had to take it down before being sued, though.

I'll ask my friend. he has some stuff on this bunch and he might have another link. but it won't be fast.

Huh? How is the media "controlled by Hollywood?" We're not talking People Magazine here.

Um, no, "the majority of all Hollywood stars" do not belong to Scientology. Between the big stars (Cruise, Travolta) and the minor celebrities (Juliette Lewis, Jason Lee (yeah, I know :( )) I would guess it's about a dozen more or less well known names. Not exactly what I would call "the majority of all Hollywood stars."


you know i was making a point... that hollywood controls media the # of celebs is regardless

[QUOTE=Britney Spears doesn't belong to Scientology. Last thing I heard, she was safely in Kabbalah's clutches.[/QUOTE]

she changed after people started going.....atleast acording to people mag...

sounds a bit to me like some old sci-fi writer got bored one day and said "wouldn't it be great fun to create a religion?" so he immediatly came up with something so unbelieveable that someone had to believe it. Just my take on it and i hope someone out there see's my point. i'd hate to be alone in my insanity.

sounds a bit to me like some old sci-fi writer got bored one day and said "wouldn't it be great fun to create a religion?" so he immediatly came up with something so unbelieveable that someone had to believe it. Just my take on it and i hope someone out there see's my point. i'd hate to be alone in my insanity.


I dont think I could have set it better myself.

Huh? How is the media "controlled by Hollywood?" ...

it's all a question of scale. and the amount of money spent by $cientology to get the job done.

Celebrities in $cientology (http://www.xenu.net/archive/celebrities/)

these people are so aggressive in collecting celebrities they have a lot of power in Hollywood. that makes it easy for them to rope in people, rescue their careers, and meanwhile get them firmly lodged in the confidential files section. once they know that stuff about somebody they can make life pretty nasty trying to leave again.

I proudly declare myself an SP

it's all a question of scale. and the amount of money spent by $cientology to get the job done.

Celebrities in $cientology (http://www.xenu.net/archive/celebrities/)

these people are so aggressive in collecting celebrities they have a lot of power in Hollywood. that makes it easy for them to rope in people, rescue their careers, and meanwhile get them firmly lodged in the confidential files section. once they know that stuff about somebody they can make life pretty nasty trying to leave again.



wow you know ure the first person in my NS history to back up something i post

wow. Am i the only one who sees dianetics, reads what it is, and then thinks whoa "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless mind"?

Living 30 minutes from the Scientology capital of the world (Clearwater), I can tell you they're a freaky cult/marketing scam. It's pretty sad to hear about people in this area that wind up losing everything, and eventually having to join the cult/marketing militia in order to continue the program.
That means they live in hotels purchased by the cult and drink, eat and sleep fucking L. Ron. It's a bit like an indentured servitude in order to receive a scientologist education.
When I first went to downtown St. Pete, I was totally dumbstruck by the hordes of scientologists. They own everything downtown. Once, I tried to walk into one of ther buildings (I thought it was like a church), and was stopped and kicked out within 30 seconds.
What kind of "church" does that?

Living 30 minutes from the Scientology capital of the world (Clearwater), I can tell you they're a freaky cult/marketing scam. It's pretty sad to hear about people in this area that wind up losing everything, and eventually having to join the cult/marketing militia in order to continue the program.
That means they live in hotels purchased by the cult and drink, eat and sleep fucking L. Ron. It's a bit like an indentured servitude in order to receive a scientologist education.
When I first went to downtown St. Pete, I was totally dumbstruck by the hordes of scientologists. They own everything downtown. Once, I tried to walk into one of ther buildings (I thought it was like a church), and was stopped and kicked out within 30 seconds.
What kind of "church" does that?

a church who wants to control peoples minds...

I hate not having an edit option. I meant downtown Clearwater.
St. Pete is freaky for other reasons. :p

I'll ask my friend. he has some stuff on this bunch and he might have another link. but it won't be fast.

I've asked, he's answered:
Fair Game orders (http://www.spaink.net/cos/coskit/ks-014.html)

he says there are more recent things called "re-issues" where they've republished the fair game policy but he doesn't know of anyone that's put it on the web.

I also told him about this link and asked him to come on here himself since he knows more about that group than I do, but he said we're probably doing fine here between us without him.

Living 30 minutes from the Scientology capital of the world (Clearwater), I can tell you they're a freaky cult/marketing scam. It's pretty sad to hear about people in this area that wind up losing everything, and eventually having to join the cult/marketing militia in order to continue the program.
That means they live in hotels purchased by the cult and drink, eat and sleep fucking L. Ron. It's a bit like an indentured servitude in order to receive a scientologist education.
When I first went to downtown St. Pete, I was totally dumbstruck by the hordes of scientologists. They own everything downtown. Once, I tried to walk into one of ther buildings (I thought it was like a church), and was stopped and kicked out within 30 seconds.
What kind of "church" does that?

i agree with you and i'm not so sure it's considered it's a church. I agree that it's a marketing scam but until they've commited mass suicide i wont consider them a cult. So untill they all commit mass suicide or their leader dies we are plauged by more problems.

[QUOTE=
he said we're probably doing fine here between us without him.[/QUOTE]

this is the first thread ive been in where no ones arguing... we all agree: scientology is bogus and a conspiracy to make money and control minds

i agree with you and i'm not so sure it's considered it's a church.

as of 1996 the IRS reinstated theyre tax exemption so according to the government it its.

[QUOTE=I agree that it's a marketing scam but until they've commited mass suicide i wont consider them a cult. So untill they all commit mass suicide or their leader dies we are plauged by more problems.[/QUOTE]

just cause they dont want mass scuicides doesnt mean its not a cult..

i agree with you and i'm not so sure it's considered it's a church. I agree that it's a marketing scam but until they've commited mass suicide i wont consider them a cult. So untill they all commit mass suicide or their leader dies we are plauged by more problems.
Their official name (and most importantly, tax status) is the Church of Scientology. And L. Ron is dead.

Cult, cult, cult. If you saw the mob of thetanless zombies in Clearwater, you'd change your mind real fast about that.

just cause they dont want mass scuicides doesnt mean its not a cult..
Exactly. Why would the dairy farmer kill off the cows?

Their official name (and most importantly, tax status) is the Church of Scientology. And L. Ron is dead.

Cult, cult, cult. If you saw the mob of thetanless zombies in Clearwater, you'd change your mind real fast about that.

Eichen i know its off topic but do are you into Drum Core......Clearwater is where Boston Crusaders auditions(if u dont know already) wow i wonder if theyre under scientology's control

a church who wants to control peoples minds...

the same kind of "church" that copyrights and registers the writings of old mother-f* Hubbard and calls them "trade secrets" and "commercial property", and sues people who quote them on the internet or in books. we aren't talking here about publishers protecting the copyright of a particular edition they produced, we're talking about the texts themselves being treated as commercial property so you can only buy them from $cientology directly.

imagine Jesus doing the sermon on the mount or the Buddha giving his sermon at Benares and then saying "if you want a copy you have to buy it from me or else I'll sue you for having a copy of your own".

as my buddy says, the word we should be using for this 'church' is 'business' and the right word for their 'scriptures' is 'corporate assets'.

^ Dunno what drumcore is, but this area is pretty heavily death-metal/goth/industrial/hardcore industrial (Tampa), as much of it started here, or close enough.

that's really sad that they get to be tax exempt for being physcho. In a bad way mind you. And sorry to everyone all my comments are on what i could gather, not on what may or may not be true.

as of 1996 the IRS reinstated theyre tax exemption so according to the government it its.

here's why:
1st link (http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/nytimes/nyt-irs-030997.htm)
2nd link (http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/29/014.html)

there was a load of stuff at the time but somehow it didn't stay in the public eye too long. it's as close as the Times got to blowing the whistle and that was mainly because they were targeting the IRS and not $camintology.

drum core is marching band like on steroids...its not a school program.....BUTANY WAY....lets all agree that if a scientologists knocks on one of our doors we'll shoot em drag em to my house and burry them in the golf green behind my house...(the club owner hates them too)

lets all agree that if a scientologists knocks on one of our doors we'll shoot em drag em to my house and burry them in the golf green behind my house...(the club owner hates them too)
Thankfully, they never come knockin'. They make a lot more money plaing "hard to get" with their "religious wisdom". You have to come knockin' yourself.

It's worked to the tune of $millions$.

You have to come knockin' yourself.




screw knockin im going huntin:sniper:

here's why:
1st link (http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/nytimes/nyt-irs-030997.htm)
2nd link (http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/29/014.html)

there was a load of stuff at the time but somehow it didn't stay in the public eye too long. it's as close as the Times got to blowing the whistle and that was mainly because they were targeting the IRS and not $camintology.

yeah ive been readin the website this whole time....i used to think scientology was just some bogus hippie thing out in california......hehe imagin my shagrin to find out i was wrong

screw knockin im going huntin
I know that's a joke, but I believe in freedom of crazy. So long as they don't bring their brand of insanity beyond my borders of liberty. ;)

I've asked, he's answered:
Fair Game orders (http://www.spaink.net/cos/coskit/ks-014.html)

he says there are more recent things called "re-issues" where they've republished the fair game policy but he doesn't know of anyone that's put it on the web.

Oh my God, yes, those are the letters I was talking about! Thanks (to your friend, too)!

So please, everybody, click the link above and take a look - that's some scaaary shit (and a quick read, hey!) *sorry about the bossy tone but I'm in full proselytizing mode right now ;) *

And seeing a scan of the real thing was even scarier, what with the signature, date etc. - made it all the more real.

I know that's a joke, but I believe in freedom of crazy. So long as they don't bring their brand of insanity beyond my borders of liberty. ;)


freedom of crazy ??? the 28th ammendment...maybe then ill be able to come out

Well, I've done a little research on Scientology, and have found that it simply is rediculous. I really can't understand what kind of person you have to be to even consider believing the lies. I think worshipping feet would make more sense.

...until they've commited mass suicide i wont consider them a cult. So untill they all commit mass suicide or their leader dies we are plauged by more problems.

sorry but at the risk of making waves in the hot tub of this love-in we're having, and (much worse) making a long tedious post, there are other ways of dying because of a group than mass suicide
deaths at FLAG (http://whyaretheydead.net/)

what did they do to Lisa Mcpherson? (http://www.lisamcpherson.org/)

http://whyaretheydead.net/pics/lisabig.gif

more to the point, there are other ways to abuse people besides doing things where they end up dying
how to sign your life away (http://www.spaink.net/cos/coskit/ks-013.html)
their 'attack the attacker' policy (http://home.tampabay.rr.com/sp/)
tax exempt child abuse (http://www.taxexemptchildabuse.net/)
messing with your head (http://www.lermanet.com/cos/brainwashing.html)

I can't find the link right now that documents the history of $cientology's attacks on the internet. their handiwork has included hacking websites and newsgroups of critics and attacking service providers to make them take down material.

and on that subject I'd recommend that if you're interested in any of the links on this thread, bookmark them now, just in case. they've gone after stranger things than this.

... but I'm in full proselytizing mode right now....

uh-oh! keep an eye on him, if he gets that 1000 mile stare or that all-teeth-no-eyes snarly smile like Tom Cruise, we know he's gone DON'T let him talk you into a free personality test!

:D :D

uh-oh! keep an eye on him, if he gets that 1000 mile stare or that all-teeth-no-eyes snarly smile like Tom Cruise, we know he's gone DON'T let him talk you into a free personality test!

:D :D


Heathen! You really think my personality tests would be free? Get your soul ready for the bargain, muahahahahaaaaaaa!


*and it's "she", btw ;) *

Well, I've done a little research on Scientology, and have found that it simply is rediculous. I really can't understand what kind of person you have to be to even consider believing the lies. I think worshipping feet would make more sense.

sorry Zukosia, but I have to do this. I can't say it better than I did last time, I don't have the knowledge, and you aren't likely to go back and read a few pages ago, so here's what I wrote before

this is the hard part, Ftagn. understanding how this happens to people isn't easy. I didn't really get it till a friend who's a psychologist explained what goes on with people in this kind of thing. he says it has something to do with changing people's perception of things. once you do that, they start acting according to how they perceive the world even if their perceptions are wildly inaccurate. he says it's similar to hypnosis but it's more subtle and the effects last longer and involve your whole life, not just a part of it. that's what I remember of what he said. he could explain it better if he came in here. he even demonstrated it for me by hypnotizing me and videoing me trying to fry eggs in my cap. first he confinced me that my cap was a frying pan, then he told me my candles were eggs and my birthday cards were slices of toast. by the time he was finished, he had me trying to eat candles between 2 greeting cards.

the one thing I'm pretty sure of after everything he's told me is that you don't have to be gullible or stupid to get involved. don't make that mistake. all you have to do is be human and talk to them. if the right person has the right conversations with you at the right time in your life, you're going to be attracted to $cientology. what you do about that attraction could hammer the whole rest of your life.

also try this: gullible? not really (http://www.xenu.net/archive/personal_story/funkydonny.html)

it's a little like dreams - they sound nuts when you try to describe them but when you were having them they made total sense.

Heathen! You really think my personality tests would be free? Get your soul ready for the bargain, muahahahahaaaaaaa!


*and it's "she", btw ;) *

so, you really are just like $cientology. ;) free? hah! (http://www.spaink.net/cos/coskit/ks-013.html)

sorry, we're all pretty anonymous here, ... ma'am.

Heathen! You really think my personality tests would be free? Get your soul ready for the bargain, muahahahahaaaaaaa!


*and it's "she", btw ;) *

dont join scientology they make u get abortions if u get pregnent

dont join scientology they make u get abortions if u get pregnent
:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:


ack pro choice :hiss: evil

so, you really are just like $cientology. ;) free? hah! (http://www.spaink.net/cos/coskit/ks-013.html)

sure, what did you expect? I'm totally using this thread as a learning tool ;)

sorry, we're all pretty anonymous here, ... ma'am.
Oh my God. That's the first time in my life anybody "ma'am"ed me. *feels old now*

...
Oh my God. That's the first time in my life anybody "ma'am"ed me. *feels old now*

it's not being called ma'am that made you feel old, it's finding out that you were chained to a volcano and blown up with H-bombs all that time ago. radiation really ages you you know.

it's not being called ma'am that made you feel old, it's finding out that you were chained to a volcano and blown up with H-bombs all that time ago. radiation really ages you you know.


oooooooooooo dis......:rolleyes: :upyours:

it's not being called ma'am that made you feel old, it's finding out that you were chained to a volcano and blown up with H-bombs all that time ago. radiation really ages you you know.

*slathers on anti-radiation-wrinkles cream*

oooooooooooo dis......:rolleyes: :upyours:

Sheesh, what's your problem?

Sheesh, what's your problem?

its was a joke.....:(

*summons Lord Xenu from the Land of Gnomes and Cyber-Space Monkeys*

I AM LORD XENU! MUHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Since Earth is overpopulated again I shall dump all of you sob's in ice and then throw you into a Hawaiian volcanoe and blow you all up with H-Bombs!

Then I will brainwash your souls all over again!

Take that L. Ron Hubbard for exposing my fiendish plan to the world!

MUHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!:p

its was a joke.....:(

Yeah, well, maybe next time hold the "up yours" smilie. That one doesn't exactly scream "funny haha".

oooooooooooo dis......:rolleyes: :upyours:

wtf? I was talking to Whereyouthinkyougoing, not you, and if you don't know what the joke is about have the decency to ask before you decide I shouldn't have made it.

according to that old mother, Hubbard, if you read this before $camintology prepared you for it, you'll die! you've been warned! (http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/fishman/ot3.html)

according to that old mother, Hubbard, if you read this before $camintology prepared you for it, you'll die! you've been warned! (http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/fishman/ot3.html)
Dude, awesome link. Thanks for adding ammo to the ole arsenal, here in Scientoland, Florida! We need all we can get to help friends (thank gawd not family, yet) from being sucked in to the sci-fi vortex.

Dude, awesome link. Thanks for adding ammo to the ole arsenal, here in Scientoland, Florida! We need all we can get to help friends (thank gawd not family, yet) from being sucked in to the sci-fi vortex.

glad to. normally I don't get that fussed about how people want to screw themselves up, but $cientology is an exception for me. thing is Eichen, there's a lot of information out there and with a little work you should have more than enough 'ammo'. the real problem I have is reading and thinking about it all. there's tons of the stuff.

but since you need a handle on it, I'll say it again, you want Atack's book. it really helped me understand what my friend is saying when he talks about them. and as you see from the OT3 page, the guy's good at explaining $cientology's technical stuff too. I almost feel like I understand it.

$cientology look out! Xenu wants his revenge!

"To kill an infidel is not murder; it is the path to heaven!"

Honestly, people, why can't we go back to hating Jews and Muslims?

But, to be fair, using xenu.net as an unbiased source of information on Scientology is like using, say, a Christian fundamentalist website as an unbiased source of information on paganism or a website tied to al-Qaida for information on Buddhism, Judaism, and the United States.

Personally, all anti-scientologists go in the same heap as the Romans who persecuted the Christians and anti-semetics. And, at the end of the day, in a millenium, people will be making docu-dramas about the persecution of scientologists.

To put it mildly, Scientology is as legitimate a religion as any other. Substitute angels and demons for aliens, divine smites and lightning for nuclear weapons, and you have Scientology. And, though Scientology, as an organized religion may be corrupt, so too is the Catholic Church. And I don't see anyone up in arms about that.

Of course, as we all know, Scientology is really just a religion invented by the Jewish World Wide Conspiracy to draw attention away from Judaism!

Face it, the only reason you're attacking Scientolgy is that it's 'cool' and if you attacked any other you would be labeled as an anti-semite or an intolerant person. The simple fact is that you people are closed-minded and intolerant. There is no difference between you and the Germans and Spanish who massacred Jews five centuries ago. And, today, that same spirit of persecution is alive and kicking in Europe and in parts of the US.

"To kill an infidel is not murder; it is the path to heaven!"

Honestly, people, why can't we go back to hating Jews and Muslims?

But, to be fair, using xenu.net as an unbiased source of information on Scientology is like using, say, a Christian fundamentalist website as an unbiased source of information on paganism or a website tied to al-Qaida for information on Buddhism, Judaism, and the United States.

Personally, all anti-scientologists go in the same heap as the Romans who persecuted the Christians and anti-semetics. And, at the end of the day, in a millenium, people will be making docu-dramas about the persecution of scientologists.

To put it mildly, Scientology is as legitimate a religion as any other. Substitute angels and demons for aliens, divine smites and lightning for nuclear weapons, and you have Scientology. And, though Scientology, as an organized religion may be corrupt, so too is the Catholic Church. And I don't see anyone up in arms about that.

Of course, as we all know, Scientology is really just a religion invented by the Jewish World Wide Conspiracy to draw attention away from Judaism!

Face it, the only reason you're attacking Scientolgy is that it's 'cool' and if you attacked any other you would be labeled as an anti-semite or an intolerant person. The simple fact is that you people are closed-minded and intolerant. There is no difference between you and the Germans and Spanish who massacred Jews five centuries ago. And, today, that same spirit of persecution is alive and kicking in Europe and in parts of the US.


in light of all the information...the court cases the police reports and the personal writings of people who were once scientologists and arent anymore and not to mention the writings of the man who started the religion if you say that it just proves you what i call a farleft zealot.....say your right no matter how much evidince is put infront of you that was your wrong....and anyone who says your wrongs is an intolerant conservative cold hearted bastard.....spare us the bs and dont just throw mud because you disagree...

allright ill fix my grammer in the last one cause i forget punctuation and ill ad on a little: in light of all the information...the court cases, the police reports, and the personal writings of people who were once scientologists and arent anymore, and not to mention the writings of the man who started the religion, if you say that were just being intolerant, it just proves you what i call a farleft zealot.....accuse everyone of being intolerant and and accuse everyone of being wrong no matter how much evidince is put infront of you that contradicts you....and that anyone who says your wrongs is an intolerant conservative cold hearted bastard.....spare us the bs and dont just throw mud because you disagree... plus i take it you're jewis(i could be wrong) because you seem to be over sensitive about the mistreatment of jews over the centuries, well ill i have to say is join the club... yes the hollocaust was horrilbe and diabolicle...yes the catholic church is corrupt(but atleast theyre trying to fix it. and yes the spanish killed moors in the inquisition cause issabella and firdinand went on a power trip but hey back then it was different time... (refering to of course the inquisition and crusades) the holocaust actually isnt the worse genocide in history contrary to popular beliefe... Stalin during his revolution killed twice as manny people as hitler did...but no one talks about that... hmmmmm any way im getting off on tangents here... the fact of the matter is scientology is a coercive religion based on mind control and stealing peoples money...and if you still say that its a lagitament organization AFTER youve read all the facts and AFTER youve investigated personal claims then your just trying to be the hippie dude cause its the "cool" thing now.

"To kill an infidel is not murder; it is the path to heaven!"

Honestly, people, why can't we go back to hating Jews and Muslims?

But, to be fair, using xenu.net as an unbiased source of information on Scientology is like using, say, a Christian fundamentalist website as an unbiased source of information on paganism or a website tied to al-Qaida for information on Buddhism, Judaism, and the United States.

Personally, all anti-scientologists go in the same heap as the Romans who persecuted the Christians and anti-semetics. And, at the end of the day, in a millenium, people will be making docu-dramas about the persecution of scientologists.

To put it mildly, Scientology is as legitimate a religion as any other. Substitute angels and demons for aliens, divine smites and lightning for nuclear weapons, and you have Scientology. And, though Scientology, as an organized religion may be corrupt, so too is the Catholic Church. And I don't see anyone up in arms about that.

Of course, as we all know, Scientology is really just a religion invented by the Jewish World Wide Conspiracy to draw attention away from Judaism!

Face it, the only reason you're attacking Scientolgy is that it's 'cool' and if you attacked any other you would be labeled as an anti-semite or an intolerant person. The simple fact is that you people are closed-minded and intolerant. There is no difference between you and the Germans and Spanish who massacred Jews five centuries ago. And, today, that same spirit of persecution is alive and kicking in Europe and in parts of the US.

1. xenu.net and being 'unbiased'
the one thing you didn't do is show how even a single document is inaccurate or wrong. the stuff there includes stuff the $cienos admitted to in court, stuff that comes straight from their own documents, and stuff that's a matter of historical record. if you don't like the other stuff (like the parodies and the fun-poking) ignore it - we're not using it in this thread much anyway. what's wrong with $cientology isn't that it's funny. it's that it's up to no good, and the stuff it does isn't accidental, it's official procedure.

'unbiased' is a funny word. like, would you say I'm 'not unbiased' because everytime someone says 'Hitler wasn't bad, he liked dogs' I say 'yeah and he started WWII and committed the holocaust" ? don't confused 'bias' with 'inaccurate' or 'wrong'. they can be 2 different things. in this case they are.

2.if you don't see the difference between $cientology and other religions, you haven't bothered reading any of the documentation. when's the last time the catholic church burgled government buildings to steal files from them, carried out espionage against governments (according to mother-* Hubbard's own claims) and blackmail critics and others they dislike? which jewish scripture (that's the status of Hubbard's writing in $cientology) requires its members to be held in solitary confinement for certain offenses against it? when's the last time any legitimate religion was criticized by a newspaper or tv show, and the journalists became the subject of a campaign where their families, friends and neighbors were approached and told 'this person is a drug dealer and a child molester, and you should tell us whatever you can about them to help get them imprisoned' ?

all of that and more has happened to critics of $cientology, and it's been done by $cientologists under orders from the group. look up what happened to Paulette Cooper as an example of how 'creative' $cientology can get to persecute anyone who asks questions.

you need to inform yourself a little better before you make these comments.

I won't say other religions aren't corrupt, but there are different degrees of corruption. the kind of stuff $cientology gets up to is in a class of its own.

3. 'being cool' and criticizing $cientology
there's nothing cool or uncool about it. that's irrelevant, the word doesn't even compute here. you could just as well have said 'the only reason you're attacking Scientolgy is that it's metallic' -- that makes as little sense. and if you really think nobody here attacks other religions, I'm guessing you haven't read much of the NS forum yet. as for the rest of your last bit you sound like you're reading that straight off a $cientology PR script.

one of my friends just watched the Southpark episode. she's ex-OT4. said it was irreverent but pretty accurate. she said she feels very sorry for John and Jane Smith...

;)

Part of my problem with them is, their zealous denouncement of any psychiatry at all just makes it that much harder to reform psychiatry. There are things in the practice of psychiatry (espcially as it relates to medication) that should be examined.

Generally speaking, the entire connection between psychiatry adn state is rotten.

They've been pushing and pushing to make it easier and easier to commit people - where I live, there's not even judicial review before a person gets thrown into the loony bin.

There was a time where psychiatric committment was supposed to be only for the truly insane. Of course, not any more.

when's the last time the catholic church burgled government buildings to steal files from them, carried out espionage against governments (according to mother-* Hubbard's own claims) and blackmail critics and others they dislike?

...the church's behavior comes to mind.

which jewish scripture (that's the status of Hubbard's writing in $cientology) requires its members to be held in solitary confinement for certain offenses against it?

Clearly you've never heard of the pulsa denura.

Far as I'm concerned, if you choose to be superstitious yourself then you forfeit any right to laugh at Scientology. There was a Catholic at my old job who was all about ripping on Scientology (not sure exactly why), and I couldn't resist pointing out that he was an admitted practicing cannibal who believed in magical zombies and who belongs to a church that has declared that the Capybara* is a fish.

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capybara

Did we really need to gravedig a thread from two years agon on scientology when we have a recont one on the first page?

After the South Park episode and thinking back on Tom Cruise's public breakdown in the media I have begun to pull together some opinions on Scientology.

First and foremost, their belief that Lord Xenu dumped billions of aliens into volcanoes in Hawaii and then used Hydrogen Bombs 75,000,000 years ago (and wiped out nearly all life) to destroy them. And THEN put their souls in a big space theater and brainwashed them and then these alien souls latched on to humans is pure BS (if taken literally).


oh he cant have meant the hawaiian islands, they didnt exist 75 million years ago.

This week's Scientology thread is here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=526835). iLock.