NationStates Jolt Archive

Why is it that I see so many Christians post that they are being persecuted? Last I checked, you have the White House, the House of Representatives and possibly the Supreme Court soon. Where is this supposed persecution going on?

Christians like their persecution complexes.


Also, some middle eastern nations don't treat christians too well... but then there are countries in Africa where muslims are treated poorly by christians... so I think it balances out.

Emphasis on Supreme court, soon enough it'll be illegal abortion, illegal gay marragie, no death sentences.....Or maybe that's just conservative...I always get those two confused...

Why is it that I see so many Christians post that they are being persecuted? Last I checked, you have the White House, the House of Representatives and possibly the Supreme Court soon.
we do? I seem to have missed that.



Where is this supposed persecution going on?
mostly the physical persecution (beheadings ect.) happen in other countries.

here it is mostly psychological, you know the ones who want to outlaw Christians from holding public office, or the ones who want us to be commited to mental health facilities, or there are always the "lock yourself in a room to do that religious stuff and don't be who you are in public because it annoys me" people.

I don't pay much attention to it, I really don't care. I understand why people hate Christians, it really doesn't bother me much, until they start to talk about taking away my civil rights because of my religion, then I get a little annoyed.

I don't hate Christians but I hate the you are going to hell attitude most have because you don't accept Jesus. I am a good person, I do a lot for charity and I am raising a family. I don't feel that deserves eternal damnation.

"it really doesn't bother me much, until they start to talk about taking away...civil rights because of [their] religion, then I get a little annoyed."

How I feel.

"it really doesn't bother me much, until they start to talk about taking away...civil rights because of [their] religion, then I get a little annoyed."

How I feel.

That too.

or there are always the "lock yourself in a room to do that religious stuff and don't be who you are in public because it annoys me" people.And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Oh, the bitter irony...:D

I've never claimed to be persecuted.. I met several Copts when I lived near a Coptic Orthodox church (Pomona, CA), who had literally fled persecution and death threats, but few American Christians can rightly claim persecution in the traditional sense.. I don't see it happening too often though..

Oh, the bitter irony...:D
http://www.studip.uni-goettingen.de/pictures/smile/laughoutloud.gif

Oh, the bitter irony...:D
it's not ironic, Jesus was talking about not using "religion" to try to make people think you are something you are not. Praying loudly on the street corners to make people think you are religious when you really aren't is hypocritical.

Matthew 28:19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

doesn't sound like something you can do locked in a closet.......


Matthew 5:14"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.

hmm, so Jesus says we aren't supposed to hide............

...doesn't sound like something you can do locked in a closet...
But you have to admit...it was one of the funniest things all week. :D

But you have to admit...it was one of the funniest things all week. :D
what was funny about it?

oh, that people take things out of context to try to prove a point? yeah, it's real funny:rolleyes:

what was funny about it?
Maybe that's just my sense of humour.

You said you weren't happy when Christians weren't allowed to be outside and proclaim their religion everywhere.
He showed you a Bible Section that tells you to basically stay inside and not brag with your religion.

Maybe it is taken out of context. Who cares? You can use the Bible to prove and justify absolutely everything - it's what makes a simple text a religious one.

what was funny about it?

oh, that people take things out of context to try to prove a point? yeah, it's real funny:rolleyes:
Hey, Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell have been doing it for decades. I was feeling left out.

:P

Why is it that I see so many Christians post that they are being persecuted? Last I checked, you have the White House, the House of Representatives and possibly the Supreme Court soon. Where is this supposed persecution going on?Seriously people, what is your freaking problem? Christians are not being persecuted! You have everything! It's the minority religions that should be complaining! I just want to :headbang:! There you stupid Christians! You're lucky I'm not in charge, because if I was, bad things would happen. Like this::gundge: No, I'm kidding, but you do get on my nerves.

where it is mostly psychological, you know the ones who want to outlaw Christians from holding public office, or the ones who want us to be commited to mental health facilities, or there are always the "lock yourself in a room to do that religious stuff and don't be who you are in public because it annoys me" people.

I don't pay much attention to it, I really don't care. I understand why people hate Christians, it really doesn't bother me much, until they start to talk about taking away my civil rights because of my religion, then I get a little annoyed.

Excuse me, who is saying that? please, lets not play the violine piece in e-minor followed by the 'woe is me, I am persecuted, please feel sorry for me" complex.

I don't care what you do in your own time; it starts to become and issue when you force your lifestyle down my throat, when you start declaring your bigotted beliefs as 'strong convictions' the demanding that your ultra niche has influence that far exceeds your actual statistic representation in the population.

I don't 'flaunt' my homosexuality, maybe you should refrain from flaunting your Christianity.

Maybe that's just my sense of humour.
or maybe I am oversensitive tonight, my kids are sick and it stresses me out.

You said you weren't happy when Christians weren't allowed to be outside and proclaim their religion everywhere.
He showed you a Bible Section that tells you to basically stay inside and not brag with your religion.
no, it basically says not to be a hypocrite, and it's talking about how to pray, not how to act in general

Maybe it is taken out of context. Who cares? You can use the Bible to prove and justify absolutely everything - it's what makes a simple text a religious one.
sure, my favorite example is

Ecclesiastes 10:19
"A feast is made for laughter, and wine makes the life glad; and money is the answer for all things."

Excuse me, who is saying that? please, lets not play the violine piece in e-minor followed by the 'woe is me, I am persecuted, please feel sorry for me" complex.
I have heard it more times than I can count on NS General alone, there have been whole threds started about how Christians should be barred from public office, how we should be locked up in institutions, and how we are idiots because we believe in God.

I don't care what you do in your own time; it starts to become and issue when you force your lifestyle down my throat, when you start declaring your bigotted beliefs as 'strong convictions' the demanding that your ultra niche has influence that far exceeds your actual statistic representation in the population.
I think you are jumping on the wrong person, I don't try to force my religion on anyone.

I don't 'flaunt' my homosexuality, maybe you should refrain from flaunting your Christianity.
again, I think you are jumping on the wrong person.

Hey, Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell have been doing it for decades. I was feeling left out.

:P
LOL, fair enough.:p

Ok..about the hole gay thing...GROSE!! ok im done.

"I have heard it more times than I can count on NS General alone, there have been whole threds started about how [Atheists] [are going to hell], how we [will] be [tortured]...in [hell for our sins], and how we are idiots because we [do not] believe in God. "

Honestly, I've heard the whole "we offer a life preserver but they say they don't need it" thing too much.

"I have heard it more times than I can count on NS General alone, there have been whole threds started about how [Atheists] [are going to hell], how we [will] be [tortured]...in [hell for our sins], and how we are idiots because we [do not] believe in God. "

Honestly, I've heard the whole "we offer a life preserver but they say they don't need it" thing too much.
true also, but they almost always get in trouble for trolling.........

anyway, they asked a question, I tried to answer, it's not my fault if you are likewise being persecuted, because I am not the one doing it.

maybe you should start a thred about the persecution of athiests. ;)

I don't hate Christians but I hate the you are going to hell attitude most have because you don't accept Jesus. I am a good person, I do a lot for charity and I am raising a family. I don't feel that deserves eternal damnation.

Did you ever lie?

Did you ever lie?

Of course - everyone has. I've told my sister-in-law that I enjoy her cooking many times and that is a bold-faced lie.

Of course - everyone has. I've told my sister-in-law that I enjoy her cooking many times and that is a bold-faced lie.
Amen to that!

Of course - everyone has. I've told my sister-in-law that I enjoy her cooking many times and that is a bold-faced lie.

Then you, like the Pope, deserve hell.

There is a different between fibs and lies, fibs are socialy acceptable, and lies just plane hurt lol.

Then you, like the Pope, deserve hell.
and just like you, and just like me, everyone does (according to the Christian faith) but if they don't believe that then telling them that they deserve to go to hell seems rude, and mean, and is really pushing them further away (which I assume isn't your goal)

Then you, like the Pope, deserve hell.

:) I've been there - I have to eat her food - usually while I am telling the lie.

Why is it that I see so many Christians post that they are being persecuted? Last I checked, you have the White House, the House of Representatives and possibly the Supreme Court soon. Where is this supposed persecution going on?

Those aren't real Christians. Those are literalist hate-mongering antiJesus idiots.

Those aren't real Christians. Those are literalist hate-mongering antiJesus idiots.

I'll agree with you there - I think there are plenty of politicians playing up their Christianity for votes.

I'll agree with you there - I think there are plenty of politicians playing up their Christianity for votes.

Well, the people that vote for them are generally literalist hate-mongering antiJesus idiots.

The persecution of Christians isn't on capitol hill, it's in subtle ways. For instance, there was a case in New York where Jewish and Islamic symbols were allowed to be shown on public property, but not a nativity scene.

Keep in mind, I'm not one of those Christians who points the persecution finger all the time, but there are instances of it. Also, about the supreme court.... Chances are, liberal fears aren't going to come true. If the supreme court overturns any of its decisions, it just goes back to the 10th amendment and the states get to decide. So if you live in a primarily liberal state, you have NOTHING to worry about.

no death sentences.....Or maybe that's just conservative...

I didn't think that was a conservative view. Some of my conservative friends are against the death penalty, but not most of them. Seems opposite of what the past few conservative administrations have been about.

I'll agree with you there - I think there are plenty of politicians playing up their Christianity for votes.


Almost any politician that says anything about morals or christian, is usually just playing it up. If it gets votes, then why not use it..sickening how our system...our way of life...is being destroyed because of this very thing

I have heard it more times than I can count on NS General alone, there have been whole threds started about how Christians should be barred from public office, how we should be locked up in institutions, and how we are idiots because we believe in God.

Oh pulease, a few blow hards from the NS forums is hardly to warrant sleep over; they're a flea on a elephants ass in the grand scheme of things.

About the only thing I would say is when people start saying, "I was told by god to do zyx" then start locking them up in the funny farm - there is a line drawn between finding guidiance through self reflection and the idea of believing the voices in your head.

Oh pulease, a few blow hards from the NS forums is hardly to warrant sleep over; they're a flea on a elephants ass in the grand scheme of things.
like I said, I don't pay much attention to it, until they start talking about taking away my rights, then I feel like if I don't say anything it's like giving consent.

About the only thing I would say is when people start saying, "I was told by god to do zyx" then start locking them up in the funny farm - there is a line drawn between finding guidiance through self reflection and the idea of believing the voices in your head.
It really depends on what God told them to do, I mean if God told me to mind my own business, then surely you wouldn't lock me up;)

A few threads on an internet forum and a nativity scene not being allowed is not persecution. It may be unfair and a stupid decision but it is not persecution. Being ripped from your homeland to be made into slaves is persecution, being rounded up sent to concentration camps and being used as slaves, malnurited, tortured, gassed, forced to dig your own mass grave and then shot in the head is persecution. Being denied some basic civil rights and being forced to live by someone elses beliefs and having to read and hear that your lifestyle is gross, disgusting and immoral at every turn is being persecuted.

like I said, I don't pay much attention to it, until they start talking about taking away my rights, then I feel like if I don't say anything it's like giving consent.


It really depends on what God told them to do, I mean if God told me to mind my own business, then surely you wouldn't lock me up;)

And if God said to make love to Lovely Boys all night long, believe, I'll be on my stomach with my ass in the air waiting for you :)

Why is it that I see so many Christians post that they are being persecuted? Last I checked, you have the White House, the House of Representatives and possibly the Supreme Court soon. Where is this supposed persecution going on?
Well, the persecution complex has to shift its focus after the people with it get external control in every other respect .... that being the case, it's time to attack every other philosophy until, somewhat sadly, the religion implodes.
If it weren't a guilt-oriented business than i suspect the whole political spectrum and agenda would be a considerably different beast.

Those aren't real Christians. Those are literalist hate-mongering antiJesus idiots.
Or rabid Comedy Central fans ... ;)

Those aren't real Christians. Those are literalist hate-mongering antiJesus idiots.
Amen. :D That's good enough for a signature, I say.

Another way to ask what I think the topic poster was asking- Christians, what do you feel you are not allowed to do, that people of other religions are?

Or rabid Comedy Central fans ... ;)

wha? What comedy central show are you watching?

wha? What comedy central show are you watching?
Why, The Daily Show with Jon Stewart, of course!!
The Wednesday *episode* was the f*cking funniest one i've ever seen, INCLUDING Indecision 2004, Repub and Demo.
It's the "War on Christmas" episode.

Why is it that I see so many Christians post that they are being persecuted? Last I checked, you have the White House, the House of Representatives and possibly the Supreme Court soon. Where is this supposed persecution going on?

See here

For most citizens of Iraq, the invasion meant the end of tyranny. For one group, however, it meant a new start: the country’s historic Christian community. When the war stopped, persecution by Islamists, held in check by Saddam, started.

At a church in Basra I visited a month after the war ended, the women complained of attacks against them for not wearing the Islamic veil. I saw many Christian-owned shops that had been firebombed, with many of the owners killed for exercising their legal right to sell alcohol. Two years and many church attacks later, Iraq may still be occupied by Christian foreign powers, but the Islamist plan to ethnically cleanse Iraq of its nearly 2,000-year-old Assyrian and Armenian Christian communities is reaching fruition.

There is nothing unusual about the persecution of Iraqi Christians, or the unwillingness of other Christians to help them. Rising nationalism and fundamentalism around the world have meant that Christianity is going back to its roots as the religion of the persecuted. There are now more than 300 million Christians who are either threatened with violence or legally discriminated against simply because of their faith — more than any other religion. Christians are no longer, as far as I am aware, thrown to the lions. But from China, North Korea and Malaysia, through India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka to Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Turkey, they are subjected to legalised discrimination, violence, imprisonment, relocation and forced conversion. Even in supposedly Christian Europe, Christianity has become the most mocked religion, its followers treated with public suspicion and derision and sometimes — such as the would-be EU commissioner Rocco Buttiglione — hounded out of political office.

I am no Christian, but rather a godless atheist whose soul doesn’t want to be saved, thank you. I may not believe in the man with the white beard, but I do believe that all persecution is wrong. The trouble is that the trendies who normally champion human rights seem to think persecution is fine, so long as it’s only against Christians. While Muslims openly help other Muslims, Christians helping Christians has become as taboo as jingoistic nationalism.

On the face of it, the idea of Christians facing serious persecution seems as far-fetched as a carpenter saving humanity. Christianity is the world’s most followed religion, with two billion believers, and by far its most powerful. It is the most popular faith in six of the seven continents, and in both of the world’s two biggest economies, the US and Europe. Seven of the G8 richest industrial nations are majority Christian, as are four out of five permanent members of the UN Security Council. The cheek-turners control the vast majority of the world’s weapons of mass destruction.

When I bumped into George Bush in the breakfast room of the US embassy in Brussels last month, standing right behind me were two men in uniform carrying the little black ‘nuclear football’, containing the codes to enable the world’s most powerful Christian to unleash the world’s most powerful nuclear arsenal. Christians claiming persecution seem as credible as Bill Gates pleading poverty. But just as Christian-majority armies control Iraq as it ethnically cleanses itself of its Christian community, so the power of Christian countries is of little help to the Christian persecuted where most Christians now live: the Third World.

Across the Islamic world, Christians are systematically discriminated against and persecuted. Saudi Arabia — the global fountain of religious bigotry — bans churches, public Christian worship, the Bible and the sale of Christmas cards, and stops non-Muslims from entering Mecca. Christians are regularly imprisoned and tortured on trumped-up charges of drinking, blaspheming or Bible-bashing, as some British citizens have found. Just last month, furthermore, Saudi Arabia announced that only Muslims can become citizens.

The Copts of Egypt make up half the Christians in the Middle East, the cradle of Christianity. They inhabited the land before the Islamic conquest, and still make up a fifth of the population. By law they are banned from being president of the Islamic Republic of Egypt or attending Al Azhar University, and severely restricted from joining the police and army. By practice they are banned from holding any high political or commercial position. Under the 19th-century Hamayouni decrees, Copts must get permission from the president to build or repair churches — but he usually refuses. Mosques face no such controls.

Government-controlled TV broadcasts anti-Copt propaganda, while giving no airtime to Copts. It is illegal for Muslims to convert to Christianity, but legal for Christians to convert to Islam. Christian girls — and even the wives of Christian priests — are abducted and forcibly converted to Islam, recently prompting mass demonstrations. A report by Freedom House in Washington concludes: ‘The cumulative effect of these threats creates an atmosphere of persecution and raises fears that during the 21st century the Copts may have a vastly diminished presence in their homelands.’

Fr Drew Christiansen, an adviser to the US Conference of Bishops, recently conducted a study which stated that ‘all over the Middle East, Christians are under pressure. “The cradle of Christianity” is under enormous pressure from demographic decline, the growth of Islamic militancy, official and unofficial discrimination, the Iraq war, the Palestinian Intifada, failed peace policies and political manipulation.’

In the world’s most economically successful Muslim nation, Malaysia, the world’s only deliberate affirmative action programme for a majority population ensures that Muslims are given better access to jobs, housing and education. In the world’s most populous Muslim nation, Indonesia, some 10,000 Christians have been killed in the last few years by Muslims trying to Islamify the Moluccas.

In the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, most of the five million Christians live as an underclass, doing work such as toilet-cleaning. Under the Hudood ordinances, a Muslim can testify against a non-Muslim in court, but a non-Muslim cannot testify against a Muslim. Blasphemy laws are abused to persecute Christians. In the last few years, dozens of Christians have been killed in bomb and gun attacks on churches and Christian schools.

In Nigeria, 12 states have introduced Sharia law, which affects Christians as much as Muslims. Christian girls are forced to wear the Islamic veil at school, and Christians are banned from drinking alcohol. Thousands of Christians have been killed in the last few years in the ensuing violence.

Although persecution of Christians is greatest in Muslim countries, it happens in countries of all religions and none. In Buddhist-majority Sri Lanka, religious tension led to 44 churches being attacked in the first four months of 2004, with 140 churches being forced to close because of intimidation. In India, the rise of Hindu nationalism has lead to persecution not just of Muslims but of Christians. There have been hundreds of attacks against the Christian community, which has been in India since ad 100. The government’s affirmative action programme for untouchables guarantees jobs and loans for poor Hindus and Buddhists, but not for Christians.

Last year in China, which has about 70 million Christians, more than 100 ‘house churches’ were closed down, and dozens of priests imprisoned. If you join the Communist party, you get special privileges, but you can only join if you are atheist. In North Korea, Christians are persecuted as anti-communist elements, and dissidents claim they are not just imprisoned but used in chemical warfare experiments.

Dr Patrick Sookhdeo, director of the Barnabas Trust, which helps persecuted Christians, blames rising global religious tension. ‘More and more Christians are seen as the odd ones out — they are seen as transplants from the West, and not really trusted. It is getting very much worse.’

Even in what was, before multiculturalism, known as Christendom, Christians are persecuted. I have spoken to dozens of former Muslims who have converted to Christianity in Britain, and who are shunned by their community, subjected to mob violence, forced out of town, threatened with death and even kidnapped. The Barnabas Trust knows of 3,000 such Christians facing persecution in this country, but the police and government do nothing.

You get the gist. Dr Paul Marshall, senior fellow at the Centre for Religious Freedom in Washington, estimates that there are 200 million Christians who face violence because of their faith, and 350 million who face legally sanctioned discrimination in terms of access to jobs and housing. The World Evangelical Alliance wrote in a report to the UN Human Rights Commission last year that Christians are ‘the largest single group in the world which is being denied human rights on the basis of their faith’.

Part of the problem is old-style racism against non-whites; part of it is new-style guilt. If all this were happening to the world’s Sikhs or Muslims simply because of their faith, you can be sure it would lead the 10 O’Clock News and the front page of the Guardian on a regular basis. But the BBC, despite being mainly funded by Christians, is an organisation that promotes ridicule of the Bible, while banning criticism of the Koran. Dr Marshall said: ‘Christians are seen as Europeans and Americans, which means you get a lack of sympathy which you would not get if they were Tibetan Buddhists.’

Christians themselves are partly to blame for all this. Some get a masochistic kick out of being persecuted, believing it brings them closer to Jesus, crucified for His beliefs. Christianity uniquely defines itself by its persecution, and its forgiveness of its persecutors: the Christian symbol is the method of execution of its founder. Christianity was a persecuted religion for its first three centuries, until Emperor Constantine decided that worshipping Jesus was better for winning battles than worshipping the sun. In contrast, Mohammed was a soldier and ruler who led his people into victorious battle against their enemies. In the hundred years after the death of Mohammed, Islam conquered and converted most of North Africa and the Middle East in the most remarkable religious expansion in history.

To this day, while Muslims stick up for their co-religionists, Christians — beyond a few charities — have given up such forms of discrimination. Dr Sookhdeo said: ‘The Muslims have an Ummah [the worldwide Muslim community] whereas Christians do not have Christendom. There is no Christian country that says, “We are Christian and we will help Christians.”’

As a liberal democrat atheist, I believe all persecuted people should be helped equally, irrespective of their religion. But the guilt-ridden West is ignoring people because of their religion. If non-Christians like me can sense the nonsense, how does it make Christians feel? And how are they going to react? The Christophobes worried about rising Christian fundamentalism in Britain should understand that it is a reaction to our double standards. And as long as our double standards exist, Christian fundamentalism will grow

Also Chrsitians in the postmodern world dont get the same kind of PC defence treatment that other religions seem to. For example, if 'Jerry Springer the Opera' had focused around Islam as its subject of ridicule as opposed to Christianity as it was there would have been uproar. I dont think its the fact that it was ridiculed that is the issue, but the fact there is an imbalance in what we are seemingly allowed to riducle and what we arent

Also Chrsitians in the postmodern world dont get the same kind of PC defence treatment that other religions seem to. For example, if 'Jerry Springer the Opera' had focused around Islam as its subject of ridicule as opposed to Christianity as it was there would have been uproar. I dont think its the fact that it was ridiculed that is the issue, but the fact there is an imbalance in what we are seemingly allowed to riducle and what we arent

That's the thing with being a cultural majority, you see.
People can make fun of any majority group, but making fun of a minority is regarded as bad taste.

Example: It's mainstream to make fun of aspects of straight relationships. You can make fun of gay relationships to a general public, but the ice is a lot thinner and you'll find that people take offence much easier.

I bet, Christians are persecuted in some foreign countries - I think I remember many being killed in Sudan? :confused:

However, this is not the case in the so-called developped world. Well, atheists like to make fun of Christians, but hey! That's not endangering my life and I'm free to defend my faith. I don't do that, cause I don't like rubbing my religion under someone's nose, but I COULD - and that's the point. I am free to decide to be Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish, nameanyotherreligion, or ahteist and nobody's allowed to hurt me because of that.

We can live together happily :fluffle: :)

I think its already been well established by others on this thread that the original post was simply a straw man and there really arent many (if any at all) Christians claiming to be persecuted here or anywhere else in the US.

For those who are interested in how Christians are persecuted in other parts of the world, I recommend you sign up with Voice of the Martyrs at http://www.persecution.com. It costs nothing and as a member you will gain access to their web site and you will recieve a free newsletter that keeps you up to date on the struggles Christians face around the world and the setbacks and progress that occurs in problem areas.


[edit]I originally linked to the wrong site, but because that site turned out to be on-topic and a very good site, I am providing that link down here and linking to the site I originally intended to link in the text. http://www.persecution.org

That's the thing with being a cultural majority, you see.
People can make fun of any majority group, but making fun of a minority is regarded as bad taste.

Example: It's mainstream to make fun of aspects of straight relationships. You can make fun of gay relationships to a general public, but the ice is a lot thinner and you'll find that people take offence much easier.

And thats the hypocracy we get angry about. Liberals claim to be equally defensive and protecting of all cultures but will be outraged by anything said against Islam, but Christians its a diffrent story

Also I think what Christians regard as persecution in some cases is the attitude held about their beliefs. IE that they are restrictive, backward, narrow minded etc. It is basicly a form of facisim of the liberal adgenda, IE to claim that everyone who opposes you is stupid for doing so.

I left Christianity because of a friend of mine at church saying that Christians were being persecuted in the United States (after she claimed that fairy tales should not be told to children because they contained magic). I had been devout a few years earlier but at the time that this was said, I was more of an agnostic and this statement was the straw that broke the camel's back.

I started looking for a new religion to follow (preferrably not a judeo-christian one) and I found Buddhism. Don't ask me how because I still don't know. I agree that Christianity itself is a beautiful religion, but some people take it too far. I didn't want to be identified with people who did this, so I left.

It annoys me when Christians say they are being persecuted in the United States. I'm sure that's why it's easier for a Christian to be elected to office than an atheist or a person of a non-Christian religion. This is not persecution. Having civil liberties taken away because of a religion is persecution. Being searched by authorities because of a religion (i.e. airport security) is persecution. Christians aren't being persecuted in the United States, rather they are the ones who would perform persecution if it were to exist. Thankfully, it generally doesn't to my knowledge but for a few exceptions.

Not having sanctioned prayer in public schools is not persecution. Not everyone follows the same religion. People in the United States range from Agnositic to Zoroastrian. If I left Christianity because people claimed that they themselves were being persecuted then I'm sure that others have as well.

Maybe that's just my sense of humour.

You said you weren't happy when Christians weren't allowed to be outside and proclaim their religion everywhere.
He showed you a Bible Section that tells you to basically stay inside and not brag with your religion.

Maybe it is taken out of context. Who cares? You can use the Bible to prove and justify absolutely everything - it's what makes a simple text a religious one.

Context.....

Though in this aspect you are right, there are numerous "christians" who use only segments of the Bible, singular verses, to formulate creedal positions, even when their interpretation may directly contradict surrounding or relating passages.... Which is why I have beat Context around alot.

and just like you, and just like me, everyone does (according to the Christian faith) but if they don't believe that then telling them that they deserve to go to hell seems rude, and mean, and is really pushing them further away (which I assume isn't your goal)

Mean years ago, after a man spent time observing the sermons and missionary activities of the preacher Charles Haddon Spurgeon in England, he noticed that Mr. Spurgeon talked many times of hell, damnation, sin, and God's wrath in church to his parishoners.... But in the streets, talking to the common sinner, the unsaved, he spoke only of God's love.... When the man confronted Mr. Spurgeon upon this fact, Mr. Spurgeon noted to the man that those in Church already know of God's love, when they need to be reminded of is His wrath... Those out of Church need to know of His love...

And thats the hypocracy we get angry about. Liberals claim to be equally defensive and protecting of all cultures but will be outraged by anything said against Islam, but Christians its a diffrent story

Also I think what Christians regard as persecution in some cases is the attitude held about their beliefs. IE that they are restrictive, backward, narrow minded etc. It is basicly a form of facisim of the liberal adgenda, IE to claim that everyone who opposes you is stupid for doing so.

That's not hypocrisy, it's a socio-cultural phenomenon. You live in a society that tries to protect minorities and regards that protection as moral and valuable. Therefore, it gets uneasy if you start making fun of a minority such as Muslims, as the line between "making fun of" and "attacking" is extremely thin.

Imagine a school yard situation : You've got a small, scrawny kid and you have a big, huge, healthy kid. If you make fun of the small kid, you know you're going against someone who will have a hard time defending himself and will suffer from your cruelty. So you make fun of the big kid instead and then leg it to escape the punches.

That's not hypocrisy, it's a socio-cultural phenomenon. You live in a society that tries to protect minorities and regards that protection as moral and valuable. Therefore, it gets uneasy if you start making fun of a minority such as Muslims, as the line between "making fun of" and "attacking" is extremely thin.

Imagine a school yard situation : You've got a small, scrawny kid and you have a big, huge, healthy kid. If you make fun of the small kid, you know you're going against someone who will have a hard time defending himself and will suffer from your cruelty. So you make fun of the big kid instead and then leg it to escape the punches.

Or perhaps you shouldnt make fun of anyone

It is hypocracy when liberalism claims that it respects and supports all cultures, races, peoples etc equally yet will jump to defend Islam at any and all oppotunities but will not do the same for Christianity.

Or perhaps you shouldnt make fun of anyone

It is hypocracy when liberalism claims that it respects and supports all cultures, races, peoples etc equally yet will jump to defend Islam at any and all oppotunities but will not do the same for Christianity.

I'm not sure what you mean by "liberalism". But I enjoy laughing now and again...

And do be honest : If you didn't enjoy a good fight or argument now and then, you wouldn't be here in the first place, right?

Edit: Has it occured to you yet that maybe no non-Christian is trying to protect Christianity or speak up for the for the very simple reason that they do it themselves anyway, even before being attacked, and others hardly even get a word in?

For example, if 'Jerry Springer the Opera' had focused around Islam as its subject of ridicule as opposed to Christianity as it was there would have been uproar.That's a very valid point, but the flip side is that you never actually see any Islam/Buddhist/whatever worship programs on British terrestrial TV, yet the BBC, who aired the Springer program, also airs "Songs of Praise" every week (and I'm fairly sure ITV has something similar). Yet I've never heard anyone - atheist, Muslim, Buddhist, whatever - complaining about that use of their licence fee.

While "Songs of Praise", to my knowledge anyway, is not explicitly critical of non-Christian beliefs, its regular schedule can, by extension, push out room for other beliefs in popular culture.

I have heard it more times than I can count on NS General alone, there have been whole threds started about how Christians should be barred from public office, how we should be locked up in institutions, and how we are idiots because we believe in God.

Yes but you must acknowledge that for every one of those people, there are two radical evangelicals out there who disgrace the Christian religion with their pandering and outright lying who make these people what they are.

Mean years ago, after a man spent time observing the sermons and missionary activities of the preacher Charles Haddon Spurgeon in England, he noticed that Mr. Spurgeon talked many times of hell, damnation, sin, and God's wrath in church to his parishoners.... But in the streets, talking to the common sinner, the unsaved, he spoke only of God's love.... When the man confronted Mr. Spurgeon upon this fact, Mr. Spurgeon noted to the man that those in Church already know of God's love, when they need to be reminded of is His wrath... Those out of Church need to know of His love...
yeah, we don't do the whole hell and damnation thing in my church either, it just doesn't pay to try to scare someone into a decision. I have seen too many evangelists lately doing the whole "end times" thing, you know "get in before it's too late", the whole thing seems very messed up to me.

Jesus himself said that he didn't come into the world to condem but out of love, and if we are Christians and supposed to be Christ-like, then it only makes since to me that we shouldn't go around trying to condem people either, but trying to show them love.

Yes but you must acknowledge that for every one of those people, there are two radical evangelicals out there who disgrace the Christian religion with their pandering and outright lying who make these people what they are.
I think your ratio is off, but yeah. I said earlier I don't pay much attention to it, I was just trying to answer why some Christians feel persecuted.

Why is it that I see so many Christians post that they are being persecuted? Last I checked, you have the White House, the House of Representatives and possibly the Supreme Court soon. Where is this supposed persecution going on?

Last I checked, we still had the constitutional separation of church and state. I'm not being persecuted, and I'm Christian, so maybe you're watching too much Pat Robertson if you're hearing that sort of thing.

My children can't pray in school, and no one in their school can sing a "Christmas" song. Has to be a "Holiday" song - but it's OK to sing a Kwanzaa song, or a Hannukah song, or any other religion's song in a childrens' performance. It seems that Christianity is seen as the only religion that offends. So I don't think "we" are in charge of anything.

See here



Also Chrsitians in the postmodern world dont get the same kind of PC defence treatment that other religions seem to. For example, if 'Jerry Springer the Opera' had focused around Islam as its subject of ridicule as opposed to Christianity as it was there would have been uproar. I dont think its the fact that it was ridiculed that is the issue, but the fact there is an imbalance in what we are seemingly allowed to riducle and what we arent

Your qoted article isn't really the persecution I was aiming at - the average NS member is not a resident of Iraq. In extereme cases like that you will always have me on your side - that is if you want a hell-bound agnostic on your side.

On the ridicule issue, the majority is always a target for ridicule. Just like it is ok to make fun of Whitey.

On the ridicule issue, the majority is always a target for ridicule. Just like it is ok to make fun of Whitey.

I agree its a target for ridcule. I'm just saying the Liberal attitude towards Christianity is, in many cases, hypocritcal. In that they will not offer the same kind of defences to Christianity that they do to Islam, despite claiming to want peace and freedom etc for all cultures and races

That's a very valid point, but the flip side is that you never actually see any Islam/Buddhist/whatever worship programs on British terrestrial TV, yet the BBC, who aired the Springer program, also airs "Songs of Praise" every week (and I'm fairly sure ITV has something similar). Yet I've never heard anyone - atheist, Muslim, Buddhist, whatever - complaining about that use of their licence fee.

While "Songs of Praise", to my knowledge anyway, is not explicitly critical of non-Christian beliefs, its regular schedule can, by extension, push out room for other beliefs in popular culture.

"Songs of praise" is a program dedicated to televising Christian worship. The reason it's sucessful is there is a marketable interest in such programs. At present I don't believe there is a marketable interest in Islamic/Budhist/other etc worship programs. Having said that however the series "spirituality shopper" on Channel four the previous year examined religions in a compartive fashion (Although in my opinion detrementally so). I dont belive that if a marketable interest in such a program were to come about it would be opposed, but right now there isnt one. I have no problem with my belief being unrepresented in the media, what I have a problem with is that if it is represented and criticised then other religions should be allowed to be criticised equally. The BBC would currently not dare to criticise Islam the way Channel four chose to criticise the Bible and Christianity in their one off documentary "who wrote the Bible".

I agree its a target for ridcule. I'm just saying the Liberal attitude towards Christianity is, in many cases, hypocritcal. In that they will not offer the same kind of defences to Christianity that they do to Islam, despite claiming to want peace and freedom etc for all cultures and races

You're making some very sweeping generalisations about "Liberals". Also, what is this nebulous "liberal attitude" you speak of? Perhaps you could define it for us, yes?

Why is it that I see so many Christians post that they are being persecuted? Last I checked, you have the White House, the House of Representatives and possibly the Supreme Court soon. Where is this supposed persecution going on?
"Possibly" the Supreme Court?

Let's be honest: Christians control all three branches of the American government, most media outlets, a majority of major corporations, and about 3/4ths of the population.

If they're whining now, imagine how it's gonna be when they don't hold a majority any more. The number of Americans identifying themselves as "Christian" is dropping just as fast as the number of self-identified "secular, atheist, or non-religious" Americans is growing, and that's probably what's got the Christians so panicky. The radical Christians know they're going to be forced to live by the same rules as everybody else, and after 250 years of special treatment that can seem like a punishment.

Let's be honest: Christians control all three branches of the American government......

I think you are confusing Republicans and Christians, they are not the same thing.

most media outlets....
I don't think so, how did they get the anti-Christian slant if we own them?
a majority of major corporations...
examples?
and about 3/4ths of the population.
just because someone claims to be Christian doesn't mean they actually are, what most of them mean is "I was raised in a Christian home" or " I am not a satanist" or "I kinda believe in God"

I think you are confusing Republicans and Christians, they are not the same thing.

No, I'm not. Go check the statistics for yourself.

I don't think so, how did they get the anti-Christian slant if we own them?

In the vast majority of media outlets, there is no anti-Christian slant.

examples?

Again, any quick search of major American corporations can answer this for you. Pick a company you care about and do a quick search...it's surprisingly easy, what with the 'net and all. Ford Motor Co. obviously springs to my mind at this particular moment, but you can look into whichever ones you like.

Remember, it's only logical that Christians dominate American corporations, because 75% of Americans are Christian. It's not like I'm claiming there's some evil Christian conspiracy, I'm just pointing out that they dominate by force of majority. Just like how white people are the majority in this country. It's not something to be ashamed of.


just because someone claims to be Christian doesn't mean they actually are, what most of them mean is "I was raised in a Christian home" or " I am not a satanist" or "I kinda believe in God"
If you feel you are qualified to decide who is and is not a "real" Christian, you can go right ahead. Personally, I feel that a person's religious orientation is for them to describe, as I am not in any position to be laying down the laws of who may and may not be rightfully called a Christian.

I'm a Jew by heritage, and a Christian by belief. I don't like fundamentalist Christians (none of us have proof we are right, so don't force it on others), and I know for a fact that we aren't persucted. You may say we are in other countries, but to extremists, a Jew, a Buddhist, a Christian, or a whatever are all equal targets.
Also, I've only seen one act of persucation to anybody in America in person: I was walking on the sidework, and this guy who I think was drunk in a car started yelling "Get the *bleep* out of my way you *bleep*ing Chinese bastard!" at a guy in front of him who really wasn't doing anything. I'd bet he was yelling because he was Chinese.

people feel as christian ideas and beliefs are being undermined to support a "mulitcultural" society. Take christmas for example there are places where christmas is not allowed in public school but kwansa(sic) is, kwansa isn't a real holiday. And in many cases, christians have a point. And the seperation of church and state is not in the constitution anywhere, it is only found in a letter that Thomas Jefferson, and has been widely distorted, but I'm probably only speakng to brick walls here so just wanted to point that out.

Why is it that I see so many Christians post that they are being persecuted? Last I checked, you have the White House, the House of Representatives and possibly the Supreme Court soon. Where is this supposed persecution going on?

christians are the most persecuted religious group in the world. but yes, in north america, the persecution is not official, or even legal. it's just stuff like being kicked outta class for praying (silently), getting suspended for wearing a cross around your neck, get beat up downtown for having a bible in you backpack, stuff like that. small things that bug us more than really matter.

christians are the most persecuted religious group in the world. but yes, in north america, the persecution is not official, or even legal. it's just stuff like being kicked outta class for praying (silently), getting suspended for wearing a cross around your neck, get beat up downtown for having a bible in you backpack, stuff like that. small things that bug us more than really matter.

Who gets suspended for wearing a cross around their neck? Is that something that happened to you? I have never heard of such a thing. Getting beat up for a bible isn't religious persecution, it's kids lashing out against what they see as uncool. Those type of kids are insecure a-holes and will hopefully grow out of it.

when christians claim to be prosecuted (at least within the US) is one of the most hilarious and annoying things i have ever heard. you hold a vast majority in this country. the president bases all his bigoted decisions on the bigoted teachings of your scripture.

note: all christians are not the same. my friends are christians, and they're good people who do not hold themselves to be above everyone else.

that said, there is a large population of fundamentalist christians who believe that they are going to heaven and everyone else is going to hell (and they don't mind telling you, either). also, if i hear one more "christian" call someone a fag i'm going to hang myself. and him.

most kids my age (upperclass high school) who claim to be a part of the christian faith don't really know shit about it, except how to be judgemental (an important part of your religion, to be fair) and how to quote bible verses out of context to prove conservative points.

you have the white house and congress. the supreme court is well on it's way to being under your control, too. don't complain to me.

love and kisses, sam

I don't hate Christians but I hate the you are going to hell attitude most have because you don't accept Jesus. I am a good person, I do a lot for charity and I am raising a family. I don't feel that deserves eternal damnation.
ditto bro an keep up the good work

I can sympathize with both groups. Yes, secularists are taking it a bit too far.
We aren't granted freedom FROM religion in the US, it's just that tax dollars shouldn't be spent in any way on anything with religious ties or overtones.
But to say that "Christians are persecuted" is a pretty myopic statement, considering the political climate today.
This is obviously a backlash against the in-your-face politicization of Christian "values" that goes back to GWB's first term. After watching hours of idiots waving around signs reading stuff like "AIDS Kills Fags Dead" and "God Hates Fags" during the gay marriage debate, it's no wonder that people are swinging back.
It's no secret that there's a very large group of Christians who wish to legislate the moral, social and sexual choices of other Americans. This much is fucking obvious.
You'd have to have had your head buried in the sand (or stuck up your ass) not to have noticed. You'd also need to be wearing an asshat not to have foreseen the imminent backlash this would cause.

When one side won't compromise, the other returns with like treatment.
I don't know why I should have to point out the obvious.

we do? I seem to have missed that.




here it is mostly psychological, you know the ones who want to outlaw Christians from holding public office,

I understand why people hate Christians, it really doesn't bother me much, until they start to talk about taking away my civil rights because of my religion, then I get a little annoyed.

Outlaw? OUTLAW? LMAO!!! Where the heck is this coming from?
Anyways, I argee with the annoying-ness of Christans.
Christians don't realize how much non Christans get bothereed by them. I have someone coming up to me everyother day because they want me to start going to their chruch. One is fine. It is when they start harping on you constantly. That is when I want to act in a VERY un-god-like manner. Like smashing their faces in with their darn pamphlets.

I think they need to realise that we (non christians) really don't want to hear about it.
I'm agnostic so I get a LOT of problems from christians. They really don't think I can be a good person if I am not baptised or "saved". In fact I'm usually a better person than they are. I'm not two-faced and I try my hardest not to be a hipocrit.

Anyways. Just like Smunkeeville, I really don't have a problem with them. Only until they start forcing their religion on me then again I want to hurt them.

I really don't have a problem with them. Only until they start forcing their religion on me then again I want to hurt them.
hmm... seems like there are more people like me out there than i thought!!!

Took this from the Fundamental Baptist Information Service. Some strange symbols are in their because it is originally in pdf format.



TERRIBLE PERSECUTION CONTINUES IN NORTH KOREA. Friday Church News Notes, December 9, 2005 (Fundamental Baptist Information Service, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061-0368, fbns@wayoflife.org) - The following is excerpted from ÒNorth Korea Crushing Churches,Ó National Post, Canada, Nov. 18: ÒA U.S government report says North Korea is raising religious persecution to the same heights as ancient Rome. While the Romans threw Christians to the lions for sport, the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom says North KoreaÕs leaders settle for snap trials followed by firing squads or simply crushing the heads of underground church leaders under a steamroller. ... The reports says there are only three formal churches in North KoreaÕs capital, Pyongyang, but they are primarily for show and are visited only by foreigners and the elderly. Everywhere else, the North Korean government is engaged in the forceful suppression of religious and intellectual life. Relying on eyewitness accounts from 40 recent refugees who fled to South Korea via China, the commission says North Korea has created a reign of terror to crush any religious belief that might challenge the god-like authority of leader Kim Jong Il. The mere possession of a Bible can bring a death sentence, while attending a secret underground church service can result in gruesome public executions. One eyewitness told commission investigators he witnessed five Christian church leaders being executed by being run over by a steamroller in front of a crowd of spectators. The underground church leaders were told, ÔIf you abandon religion and serve only Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il, you will not be killed,Õ said the witness, a soldier in a local construction battalion. ÔNone of the five said a word. Some of the fellow parishioners [who were] assembled to watch the execution cried, screamed out or fainted when the skulls made a popping sound as they were crushed beneath the steamroller.ÕÓ