NationStates Jolt Archive

I figured rather than letting it get lost in a trollish thread, I'd make a response thread and let people add their own to this. This regards both gay marriage and the rights for gay couples to adopt.

:: IMPLODE THE ECONOMY ::
1 - The economy was fine until the conservatives came along
2 - They also work and have jobs
3 - They pay into Social Security (CPP) etc...
4 - They pay their taxes as well
5 - They need to buy basic necessasities just as heteros
6 - They also eat out
7 - They also do Christmas shopping
8 - They also pay for tickets to travel
9 - They pay rent/buy houses
10 - They also invest in the stock market

:: RUIN THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM ::
1 - Sexuality doesn't dictate how one gets sick
2 - It's ones diet and choice to exercise that determines if they will be a burden on the system
3 - Smoking isn't just for gays any more!
4 - Well... since only hetero couples have babies, they won't be clogging up the emergency rooms with a screamin' kid or two on the way
5 - They were receiving healthcare long before they discovered sexuality
6 - If anything will ruin the system it's cut backs and underqualified doctors and health officials
7 - Dying isn't just for gays any more!
8 - Accidents happen regardless
9 - Anyone can get drunk and get behind the wheel and wind up in the hospital
10 - Illness and disease doesn't discriminate when looking for victims

:: DESTROY THE MARRIAGE INSTITUTION ::
1 - Blame King Henry VIII (he wanted divorce and had 6 wives - opps, I forgot how to count...)
2 - Legalised divorce
3 - Overnight marriages as done by Britney Spears
4 - Heterosexual people were marrying long before gays did and they did a fine job of wrecking it themselves
5 - If gay people marry, it inflates the marriage rate
6 - Forced/Honour Marriages
7 - People are marrying simply for money/security and not love
8 - The sanctity was lost when divorce was permitted
9 - Marriage doesn't make children; unprotected sex does

:: CAUSE CHILDREN TO SUFFER ::
1 - More children will be adopted
2 - Children will learn that tolerance is fine
3 - Children will grow up into their own natural sexuality regardless of parental sexuality
4 - Gender doesn't dictate love
5 - Heterosexual couples are just as likely to abuse children as Homosexual couples are
6 - There will be more loving homes for children
7 - They'll have two parents and not one
8 - Children will grow up with/without religion regardless of sexuality (religion is a personal choice)
9 - Heterosexuality doesn't automatically make someone a better parent

And now for the benefits and miscellaneous...

:: EMOTIONAL BENEFITS OF MARRIAGE ::
1 - You'll always have someone by your side
2 - You won't have to worry about your next of kin
3 - You'll have someone to hug you when you're sad
4 - There is no physical distance
5 - Sexuality has no affect on feelings
6 - Love doesn't know boundaries
7 - Marriage is a way of making that love binding for life
8 - A person's spouse is their lifeline in the end
9 - When everything goes wrong, there is always one person there for you
10 - There is emotional security in addition to finacial

:: MISCELLANEOUS ADDONS ::
1 - won't affect any laws; they will just simply be editted to including a different word
2 - Schools won't be affected because they are already teach tolerance and acceptance
3 - Religion won't be impacted because beliefs are steadfast regardless of sexuality
4 - Religious institutions won't be forced to conduct the marriages, as they aren't obligated to conduct every marriage
5 - No one is above or below the law; all are equal
6 - Decreased suicide rates due to more awareness and tolerance
7 - Homogenized milk is no longer a dirty term (heh...)

NOTE: yes, I'm aware that there are plenty of negative non-benefits about marriage, but they apply equally to both heterosexuals and homosexuals

Anyone have anything POSTIVE to add to this? Remember, we're looking for the benefits and not the negative aspects.

Please keep it civil.

Gay marriage might help the economy, because the marriage tax breaks would put more money in to the couple's pockets which could be spent, further boosting consumer spending.

A solid list, by any account. Don't forget the emotional benefits marriage has...

Gay marriage might help the economy, because the marriage tax breaks would put more money in to the couple's pockets which could be spent, further boosting consumer spending.

A solid list, by any account. Don't forget the emotional benefits marriage has...
Hmn, good point. I shall edit it in. I'll also add a miscellaneous one for everything else.

Gay marriage might help the economy, because the marriage tax breaks would put more money in to the couple's pockets which could be spent, further boosting consumer spending.

I work in a wedding photographer's and I'd _love_ to see gay weddings. Business has been slow :p

I'm all for Gay marriage, but I feel like playing devil's advocate...

I figured rather than letting it get lost in a trollish thread, I'd make a response thread and let people add their own to this. This regards both gay marriage and the rights for gay couples to adopt.

:: IMPLODE THE ECONOMY ::
1 - The economy was fine until the conservatives came along
2 - They also work and have jobs
3 - They pay into Social Security (CPP) etc...
4 - They pay their taxes as well
5 - They need to buy basic necessasities just as heteros
6 - They also eat out
7 - They also do Christmas shopping
8 - They also pay for tickets to travel
9 - They pay rent/buy houses
10 - They also invest in the stock market

More people get married= more people getting tax breaks=Governmen getting less money=having to raise taxes to make up shortfall=damaging economy


:: RUIN THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM ::
1 - Sexuality doesn't dictate how one gets sick
2 - It's ones diet and choice to exercise that determines if they will be a burden on the system
3 - Smoking isn't just for gays any more!
4 - Well... since only hetero couples have babies, they won't be clogging up the emergency rooms with a screamin' kid or two on the way
5 - They were receiving healthcare long before they discovered sexuality
6 - If anything will ruin the system it's cut backs and underqualified doctors and health officials
7 - Dying isn't just for gays any more!
8 - Accidents happen regardless
9 - Anyone can get drunk and get behind the wheel and wind up in the hospital
10 - Illness and disease doesn't discriminate when looking for victims

Aren't STI's more likely for Gay people?


:: DESTROY THE MARRIAGE INSTITUTION ::
1 - Blame King Henry VIII (he wanted divorce and had 8 wives)

6 wives, to be pedantic:p

2 - Legalised divorce
3 - Overnight marriages as done by Britney Spears
4 - Heterosexual people were marrying long before gays did and they did a fine job of wrecking it themselves
5 - If gay people marry, it inflates the marriage rate
6 - Forced/Honour Marriages
7 - People are marrying simply for money/security and not love
8 - The sanctity was lost when divorce was permitted
9 - Marriage doesn't make children; unprotected sex does

:: CAUSE CHILDREN TO SUFFER ::
1 - More children will be adopted
2 - Children will learn that tolerance is fine
3 - Children will grow up into their own natural sexuality regardless of parental sexuality
4 - Gender doesn't dictate love
5 - Heterosexual couples are just as likely to abuse children as Homosexual couples are
6 - There will be more loving homes for children
7 - They'll have two parents and not one
8 - Children will grow up with/without religion regardless of sexuality (religion is a personal choice)
9 - Heterosexuality doesn't automatically make someone a better parent

Anyone have anything POSTIVE to add to this? Remember, we're looking for the benefits and not the negative aspects.

I probably should have read to the end of the post before deciding to play devil's advocate, ah well, ummm

Letting gay people into the army will not make it worse (all I could come up with off the top of my head)

Elgesh']I work in a wedding photographer's and I'd _love_ to see gay weddings. Business has been slow :p

See, it would stimulate more hiring and demand in the photography sector!

I'm all for Gay marriage, but I feel like playing devil's advocate...I'll keep that in mind, and not claw you to death:)


More people get married= more people getting tax breaks=Governmen getting less money=having to raise taxes to make up shortfall=damaging economyTax breaks because of marital status are a myth(perhaps perpetuated by bitter singles who want the world to suffer with them? KIDDING!). In fact, combined incomes bump you up into a higher tax bracket. Now imagine the economic benefit of polygamous marriages! YEAH BABY!

Aren't STI's more likely for Gay people?
No. Not necessarily. They are equally as likely for anyone who sleeps around or has used a needle or come into contact with a substance that is contaiminated.

"More people get married= more people getting tax breaks=Governmen getting less money=having to raise taxes to make up shortfall=damaging economy"

Government not knowing how to manage budget = government having less money = people remembering why first Bush didn't make it to 2nd term :headbang:

Tax breaks because of marital status are a myth(perhaps perpetuated by bitter singles who want the world to suffer with them? KIDDING!). In fact, combined incomes bump you up into a higher tax bracket. Now imagine the economic benefit of polygamous marriages! YEAH BABY!
actually here in America the "marriage penalty" has mostly been wiped out by Bush :D

anyway, if you file "married filing seperatly" it still screws up your tax situation here, but if you file jointly most people get a better deal than if they weren't married and had to file either single or head of household.


(sorry for the tax talk, I just can't help it, it's almost that season again:D )

Government not knowing how to manage budget = government having less money = people remembering why first Bush didn't make it to 2nd term :headbang:

It didn't help that the government had to pay $125 billion to bail out banks after the savings and loan crisis...that was what caused the deficits and recession. Bush just plain screwed up after that...

actually here in America the "marriage penalty" has mostly been wiped out by Bush :D
Somehow that doesn't surprise me... Anything to stick it to the homos if he can't botch the constitution.

I'm not sure if this should be an emotional or misc. benefit.... emotional, probably.

Lower suicide rate among gay youth -- legal same sex marriage would help get rid of the 'I can never have a normal life' miseries.

Somehow that doesn't surprise me... Anything to stick it to the homos if he can't botch the constitution.
because making things more fair for married people hurts homosexuals?

or because homosexuals are the only single people in America?

:confused:

I say let them get married. I don't really care. I just wish it would be legalized so they will quit bitching.

I'm not sure if this should be an emotional or misc. benefit.... emotional, probably.

Lower suicide rate among gay youth -- legal same sex marriage would help get rid of the 'I can never have a normal life' miseries.
That would go uhnder miscellaneous simply because it would come from increased rights and more awarenes.

However, I think that overall, the youth suicide rates would only really go down when youths are no longer shouldered with the incredible burdens that adults place upon them.

Somehow that doesn't surprise me... Anything to stick it to the homos if he can't botch the constitution.

Sticking it to homos is botching the Constitution, though. Equal protection isn't just for the clubs that have the secret decoder ring to get into Bible study group.

because making things more fair for married people hurts homosexuals?

or because homosexuals are the only single people in America?

:confused:
Exactly. If he makes it more fair for heterosexuals, then yes, it hurts the homosexuals because they wouldn't be barred constitionally from getting married.

And no, people are single regardless of sexuality, though rates are higher amongsts the homosexuals.

Exactly. If he makes it more fair for heterosexuals, then yes, it hurts the homosexuals because they wouldn't be barred constitionally from getting married.


them not being barred constitutionally from getting married hurts them?:confused:

I don't understand what you are saying.

actually here in America the "marriage penalty" has mostly been wiped out by Bush :D

anyway, if you file "married filing seperatly" it still screws up your tax situation here, but if you file jointly most people get a better deal than if they weren't married and had to file either single or head of household.


(sorry for the tax talk, I just can't help it, it's almost that season again:D )
Tell me about it...ack. Here they get you even when you're just living common-law...there are NO tax breaks.

them not being barred constitutionally from getting married hurts them?:confused:

I don't understand what you are saying.
Equal rights... It's all about equal rights.

Equal rights... It's all about equal rights.
sure married people having equal rights with singles in the tax situation

it's got nothing to do with homosexuals.

I have nothing against gay marriage if the government doesn't try to force the church to perform weddings. (although if a gay couple applies to work at the church I don't believe they should be discriminated against, and they should recieve the same benifits as anyone else who is married (health ins. ect.))

Tell me about it...ack. Here they get you even when you're just living common-law...there are NO tax breaks.
well, actually I "married" a few couples last year, because according to US tax code to be "married for tax purposes" you only have to be common law married, and to the IRS that means that you have "presented yourself in public as married" so if they file jointly one year then they are as good as married (which also means if they ever split then they have to get a real divorce, which I made sure everyone understood before hand)

Personally, I don't see why marriage of ANY kind is the government's business. Why do they give ANY tax breaks to married couples? Do they somehow become MORE equal all of a sudden now that they've gone and gotten hitched? Why does anyone need a license from the government to get married? Shouldn't marriage be the province of the Church? Separation of Church and State works both ways. The Church shouldn't meddle with the State and the State shouldn't meddle with the Church. If a church decides to marry gay people, the government should have no say whatsoever.

But then again I'm a Libertarian so what do I know...

Good list of points. I hope gay marriage stays legal in Canada.

sure married people having equal rights with singles in the tax situation

it's got nothing to do with homosexuals.

I have nothing against gay marriage if the government doesn't try to force the church to perform weddings. (although if a gay couple applies to work at the church I don't believe they should be discriminated against, and they should recieve the same benifits as anyone else who is married (health ins. ect.))

Comming from a faggot
I totally agree.. forcing the church or anyone to do something is just a bad as not letting someone the right to marry.

*snip*

*Bolol and his clones stand and applaud*

Personally, I don't see why marriage of ANY kind is the government's business. Why do they give ANY tax breaks to married couples? Do they somehow become MORE equal all of a sudden now that they've gone and gotten hitched? Why does anyone need a license from the government to get married? Shouldn't marriage be the province of the Church? Separation of Church and State works both ways. The Church shouldn't meddle with the State and the State shouldn't meddle with the Church. If a church decides to marry gay people, the government should have no say whatsoever.

But then again I'm a Libertarian so what do I know...
actually, marriage is first legal, then religious. The rights and benefits granted by marriage are a major reason for getting married in the first place.

The commitment is nice and all, but you can have that without a ring and ceremony.

I'm all for Gay marriage, but I feel like playing devil's advocate...

I think the devil's advocates can play for themselves.

Why does anyone need a license from the government to get married? Shouldn't marriage be the province of the Church?

*ahem* I've been married twice, and neither time was in a church of any sort. Marriage is a legal joining of two people - I don't need some religion I don't believe in to adjudicate over it, thank you very much. If the only place people could get married was in a church, then only church-goers would bother to tie the knot.

But of course, then you'd have to worry about the legal status of de facto relationships. Marriage is not just a religious institution; it has a very real impact on taxes, inheritance, the disposition of wealth in the event of separation, the raising of any children the couple have...

If you want the government to keep out of it, then the church should keep out of it too and we should just abolish marriage altogether. People could just live together; kids could pick whatever surname they feel like, everybody files their taxes individually, and if you're living with someone and want them to inherit you'd better make damn sure you don't die intestate.

More people get married= more people getting tax breaks=Governmen getting less money=having to raise taxes to make up shortfall=damaging economy

Nothing stopping the government from lowering the over all tax rater, pump in a GST at 14%, and any spending increase comes back as GST, plus the extra money spent is then used to expand businesses, new employees get jobs, possible pay rises, they spend that money, and so the circle of cash continues - sexy isn't it :P

Aren't STI's more likely for Gay people?

No, those who are irresponsible - and hey, if you want to be truthful, why not throw in the amount of money spent each year supporting solo mothers because the bum father can't be bothered paying child support - in New Zealand alone, the cost is in the billions - not to mention the money spent on prisons which are the end result for so many, which pales in comparison to the total money that is spent on the 'gay community'.

Letting gay people into the army will not make it worse (all I could come up with off the top of my head)

Well, the fact is, other countries allow gay soldiers to serve, but I can assure you, those who do enter the defence force, don't enter as a lowly grunter, they tend to be of the officer class, university educated and looking for a carrier that is stable and constantly changing.

IIRC, the New Zealand Navy, for example, has a 'pink triangle' zone to inform that its a gay friendly organisation.

Another thing to take into account: Homosexuals consist of 10% or less of the population. Is that small a boost to marriage rates really going to affect anything?

Canada, Spain, Belgium, the Netherlands, Slovenia, Massachussets, and (in a year or so) South Africa all allow gay marriage; none of their economies are collapsing as a result. Same goes for California, Britain, France, and other places that allow civil unions- any economic decay was there long before civil unions were being promoted, and has causes quite obviously not a result of these civil unions.

Another benefit: As allowing gay marriage would be a sign of a society growing more accepting of homosexuality, there would be a decrease in murder rates, assault rates, and hate crime rates as violent intolerance of gays grows less common.

Another thing to take into account: Homosexuals consist of 10% or less of the population. Is that small a boost to marriage rates really going to affect anything?

Canada, Spain, Belgium, the Netherlands, Slovenia, Massachussets, and (in a year or so) South Africa all allow gay marriage; none of their economies are collapsing as a result. Same goes for California, Britain, France, and other places that allow civil unions- any economic decay was there long before civil unions were being promoted, and has causes quite obviously not a result of these civil unions.

Another benefit: As allowing gay marriage would be a sign of a society growing more accepting of homosexuality, there would be a decrease in murder rates, assault rates, and hate crime rates as violent intolerance of gays grows less common.

And although I don't like social engineering, it will, however, create stability in relationships which then create positive spin offs for the rest of society, or as the Christian like to say, "stable home, stable society".

6 - They also eat out
especially teh lesbians :D

1 - The economy was fine until the conservatives came along
Actually, the economy began it's downturn while Clinton was in office.

Actually, the economy began it's downturn while Clinton was in office.

And expanding the government, borrowing money like there is no tomorrow, starting a war in Iraq and resulting in higher petrol prices - meaning less desposable income for Joe Average - yeah, I'd say that things are head up the shitter.

Oh, and as for reforms? please, the US still has one of the most convoluted tax systems in the universe and as for the public sector bloat, it would make the Soviet Union at its peak look fabulously efficient.

1 - The economy was fine until the conservatives came along

6 - Love doesn't know boundaries
7 - Marriage is a way of making that love binding for life (In fact was refuted earlier on)

....

5 - No one is above or below the law; all are equal


False.

7 - They'll have two parents and not one

Not necessarily true.

Kryozerkia, I agree with you 100%. Allowing gays to marry can't actually do anything more than allow homosexuals to fully experience the good feelings and hardships of being in a married couple.

And expanding the government, borrowing money like there is no tomorrow, starting a war in Iraq and resulting in higher petrol prices - meaning less desposable income for Joe Average - yeah, I'd say that things are head up the shitter.

Oh, and as for reforms? please, the US still has one of the most convoluted tax systems in the universe and as for the public sector bloat, it would make the Soviet Union at its peak look fabulously efficient.
Our debt as a percentage of GDP is a bit less than most european countries, except for britain. Mind you, this will go up with the burgeoning costs of SocSec, Medicare, and that stupid perscription drug plan.