NationStates Jolt Archive


More Honor Killings

The Sutured Psyche
08-12-2005, 20:08
This time in the UK. I have no doubt that it is happening in the rest of Europe and the US as well. We, as a society, need to stand up and fight this thing. No more bland condemnation, no more hand wringing, no more worries about who might be offended. This shit needs to end. This isn't about misunderstood cultural customs, this isn't about pushing our values, this is about forcing those who would live in our society to respect our rules. To respect women as human beings, not chattle.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051207/lf_nm/crime_britain_honour_dc_1

Britain grapples with gruesome "honor" crimes

By Gideon Long Tue Dec 6, 8:18 PM ET

LONDON (Reuters) - Rukhsana Naz was 19 when her mother pinned her to the floor of their family house and her brother strangled her with a length of plastic cable.
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Sahjda Bibi, 21, was preparing to celebrate her wedding when her cousin stabbed her 22 times with a kitchen knife. The father of 16-year-old Heshu Yones slit her throat because he disapproved of her Western habits and non-Muslim boyfriend.

All were victims of "honor killings," murdered by relatives who believed they had brought shame on their families through their behavior or choice of boyfriend, husband or lover.

Until recently, honor crime was rarely reported and often misunderstood in Britain, viewed as something which happened elsewhere -- mainly in the Middle East or southern Asia.

But a series of gruesome killings has forced Britons to recognize that such crimes, although still rare, are committed here too, often within the country's large ethnic Bangladeshi, Indian and Pakistani communities.

Girls and young women have been killed, abducted, physically abused and held prisoner in their own homes. Police believe scores have been taken out of the country, often to the Indian subcontinent, and have disappeared.

Nazir Afzal, director of Britain's Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) in west London where there is a large south Asian community, says there have been at least a dozen honor killings in the country in the past year.

"And murder is just the tip of the iceberg," he said. "There are other crimes, like rape, abduction and physical violence, which we would consider steps on the stairway to murder."

ON THE RISE

The CPS, which decides whether to press charges against suspects in British criminal cases, says such crimes are on the rise, particularly since the July 7 London bombings.

The bombs, which killed 52 people on the city's transport system, were planted by four Islamist suicide bombers, all of them British.

That shone a harsh spotlight on the country's 1.6 million Muslims and, according to the CPS, prompted some Muslim families to turn in on themselves, with worrying consequences.

"I've certainly seen more cases of honor crime since July 7," said Afzal. "When communities perceive themselves to be under threat they tend to turn in on themselves, regardless of whether that perception has any basis in fact.

"They try to restore and reinforce their own social norms. They put pressure on their own members to conform, and if they don't conform there is sometimes some kind of retribution."

Specialists on violence against women also say social cultural changes, partly spread by globalization and mass media, have left men from southern Asia feeling threatened and women are bearing the brunt of their fear.

The CPS stresses honor crime is not just a Muslim issue.

"I'm aware of crimes being committed in Eastern Europe, North Africa, the Middle East, Brazil, Spain, France, Italy, and also within those communities in this country," Afzal said.

"That said, the bulk of these crimes involve the South Asian community and in particular the Muslim community."

GIRLS AS YOUNG AS 11

Jasvinder Sanghera set up the Karma Nirvana center for women from the Asian subcontinent in Derby, central England, because of her own experiences.

At 14, her family showed her a photograph of the man she was told to marry. Her mother refused to heed her objections and a week before her wedding day Sanghera ran away, never to return.

Her sister failed to escape.

She accepted her parents' choice of husband, found herself in an abusive relationship and eventually committed suicide.

"She suffered horrific violence in her marriage but when she turned to my family, they sent her back to an abusive partner because of 'honor', because of the family name, because of the family's reputation," Sanghera said.

"Within days she killed herself. She set herself on fire."

Sanghera says she has dealt with cases of children as young as 11, betrothed to husbands against their will.

Reunite, a charity which campaigns to stop child abduction, estimates that around 1,000 British Asian girls are forced into marriage each year. Between a third and a half are minors.

MEN TARGETS TOO

While young women are the primary victims of honor crimes, two court cases have shown how men have been targeted too.

In early November, two brothers aged 16 and 19 were convicted of murdering a British Iranian because their family disapproved of his relationship with their sister.

The brothers, from an ethnic Bangladeshi family, stopped their victim in his car, pinned him to the seat and stabbed him 46 times in the chest.

Less than three weeks later, a Muslim man was convicted of hacking a 21-year-old Afghan to death with a scimitar after finding out he was having a relationship with his sister.

Honor crimes, often carried out behind closed doors in tight-knit communities, are notoriously difficult to prevent, and police say they struggle to garner enough evidence to bring suspects to trial.

Two years ago, London's police force set up a task force to tackle the issue and it is re-examining over 100 unsolved murder cases to see if they may have been honor crimes, even though they were not recognized as such at the time.

The government is also considering changing the law to make forced marriage a criminal offence.

Ultimately though, campaigners say that what is needed to bring an end to honor crimes is a change of attitude among more conservative elements within some of Britain's communities.

Until then, young girls and women like Rukhsana Naz, Sahjda Bibi and Heshu Yones will remain at risk.
Deep Kimchi
08-12-2005, 20:12
We could add eliminating female genital mutilation as well.

Of course, plenty of women get killed in the West by domestic violence, and their attackers are husbands and boyfriends who were born and raised here.

Probably more women die that way than in "honor" killings.
Safalra
08-12-2005, 20:14
This time in the UK. I have no doubt that it is happening in the rest of Europe and the US as well. We, as a society, need to stand up and fight this thing. No more bland condemnation, no more hand wringing, no more worries about who might be offended. This shit needs to end. This isn't about misunderstood cultural customs, this isn't about pushing our values, this is about forcing those who would live in our society to respect our rules. To respect women as human beings, not chattle.
What are you on about? Courts treat 'honour' killings as murder, and society condemns them. This sounds like one of those standard rants against some mythical group of liberals who tolerate anything in the name of preserving culture.
Drunk commies deleted
08-12-2005, 20:17
We have ad campaigns to try to prevent other crimes like spousal abuse, gang violence, and insurance fraud, maybe there should be an ad campaign to try to prevent honor killings.

BTW, do you have such ad campaigns in the UK or elsewhere outside the US?
The Sutured Psyche
08-12-2005, 20:18
We could add eliminating female genital mutilation as well.

Of course, plenty of women get killed in the West by domestic violence, and their attackers are husbands and boyfriends who were born and raised here.

Probably more women die that way than in "honor" killings.


More women likely do die from "run of the mill" domestic violence, but there is something different here. When a women is killed by her abusive husband, the majority of our society reacts with horror, it is clearly a violation of the rules, it is an abberation and is treated as such. Honor killings stem from the importation of cultural norms that make such behavior not only acceptable, but desirable. Beyond that, forced marriages, the sale of human beings, abductions, and female genital mutilation are severe attacks on liberty. To stand by and allow them to happen is to reduce the general level of liberty in our countries. Allowing even a fraction of a population to do this is a threat to the rights of all women (and, well, everyone else, too).
Safalra
08-12-2005, 20:26
We have ad campaigns to try to prevent other crimes like spousal abuse, gang violence, and insurance fraud, maybe there should be an ad campaign to try to prevent honor killings.

BTW, do you have such ad campaigns in the UK or elsewhere outside the US?
We have government campaigns against smoking, drink-driving, fireworks and eating too much salt (yes, you read that right) and charity campaigns against child and animal abuse, but that's pretty much it. I haven't seen anything about domestic abuse, gang culture or insurance fraud.
[NS:::]Elgesh
08-12-2005, 20:30
We have government campaigns against smoking, drink-driving, fireworks and eating too much salt (yes, you read that right) and charity campaigns against child and animal abuse, but that's pretty much it. I haven't seen anything about domestic abuse, gang culture or insurance fraud.

Really? Well, maybe it's different in different parts of the UK. Up in Scotland, we see loads of ads against domestic abuse. We don't really have the sort of gang culture that's over in the US (it's no where near as structured or widespread), so no ads against that.

Apparently us Scots aren't gangmembes, just wife-beaters. Er, yay...
Deep Kimchi
08-12-2005, 20:31
The problem I run into almost every day is the general indifference towards domestic violence. It is a larger problem than most people realize, and it's swept under the rug regularly.

These victims of honor killings are victims of the same mentality that allows people to ignore men beating women.

We see the victims of honor killings as "them" - part of a nameless, faceless group that does bad things. We honestly believe we would never do those bad things - or see them in our own neighborhoods.

If we do happen to read about domestic violence, we usually see it as "them" - a nameless, faceless group that does bad things. We honestly believe we would never do those bad things - or see them in our own neighborhoods.

Most people never wake up to the horror of this sort of thing until they either experience it directly, or it happens to someone they know. Even in cases where it happens to someone they know, they are often loathe to believe it.
The Sutured Psyche
08-12-2005, 21:53
What are you on about? Courts treat 'honour' killings as murder, and society condemns them. This sounds like one of those standard rants against some mythical group of liberals who tolerate anything in the name of preserving culture.

Actually, you might have misread me a bit. I don't think you'd find anyone in civil society who would be willing to defend these kinds of things in the interest of tollerance or preserving culture. My problem is with the culture in general. My problem is that there aren't enough resources for abused women to find help and that there are even more scarce in these communities. I'm sure there are some people who would be opposed, opn the basis of not offending anyone, to a big publicity push in immigrant communities explaining how to get out of an abusive situation. I'm equally sure that there would be people opposed on the basis of "those people" not being our problem. That was kind of the problem in France wasn't it? Indifference, ignorance, and cowardice coming together to create a bad situation.

The problem I run into almost every day is the general indifference towards domestic violence. It is a larger problem than most people realize, and it's swept under the rug regularly.

These victims of honor killings are victims of the same mentality that allows people to ignore men beating women.

We see the victims of honor killings as "them" - part of a nameless, faceless group that does bad things. We honestly believe we would never do those bad things - or see them in our own neighborhoods.

If we do happen to read about domestic violence, we usually see it as "them" - a nameless, faceless group that does bad things. We honestly believe we would never do those bad things - or see them in our own neighborhoods.

Most people never wake up to the horror of this sort of thing until they either experience it directly, or it happens to someone they know. Even in cases where it happens to someone they know, they are often loathe to believe it.

Three cheers to you. There needs to be more awareness. I bring up the honor killings mainly because you have an extra layer of indifference. Not only is it domestic violence, but it is some alien group. People ignore it because it doesn't effect them, its twice removed. Putting names and specifics to the general idea might help fix that.
Sinuhue
08-12-2005, 21:55
What are you on about? Courts treat 'honour' killings as murder, and society condemns them. This sounds like one of those standard rants against some mythical group of liberals who tolerate anything in the name of preserving culture.
I know...this drives me nuts...as though some how we are sanctioning honour killings, or not investigating them, because we don't want to offend people. What a load of shit. Strawman. Next!
Sinuhue
08-12-2005, 21:57
More women likely do die from "run of the mill" domestic violence, but there is something different here. When a women is killed by her abusive husband, the majority of our society reacts with horror, it is clearly a violation of the rules, it is an abberation and is treated as such. Honor killings stem from the importation of cultural norms that make such behavior not only acceptable, but desirable. Beyond that, forced marriages, the sale of human beings, abductions, and female genital mutilation are severe attacks on liberty. To stand by and allow them to happen is to reduce the general level of liberty in our countries. Allowing even a fraction of a population to do this is a threat to the rights of all women (and, well, everyone else, too).
So who doesn't 'react with horror' to honour killings in the West? People who believe in them? Yeah, kind of like people who think this joke

What do you tell a woman with two black eyes? Nothing. You already told her twice. is an accurate description of how relationships should be, don't 'react in horror' to another woman being killed by her spouse. NO ONE IS LETTING THIS HAPPEN, as in sanctioning it, or thinking it's not a problem. So what is your point?

It would work a lot better if instead of making up accusations, you just went ahead and dealt with the issue itself.
Sinuhue
08-12-2005, 22:00
Actually, you might have misread me a bit. I don't think you'd find anyone in civil society who would be willing to defend these kinds of things in the interest of tollerance or preserving culture. My problem is with the culture in general. My problem is that there aren't enough resources for abused women to find help and that there are even more scarce in these communities. I'm sure there are some people who would be opposed, opn the basis of not offending anyone, to a big publicity push in immigrant communities explaining how to get out of an abusive situation. I'm equally sure that there would be people opposed on the basis of "those people" not being our problem. That was kind of the problem in France wasn't it? Indifference, ignorance, and cowardice coming together to create a bad situation.

Aha! That makes more sense.

Alright. Yes...immigrant communities tend to be more tight knit, and culturally homogenous than other communities...you can't just go blasting in, and saying their culture is wrong. But you CAN have people of the same ethnic group speaking up in culturally relevant ways about abuse. Not because you want to be 'sensitive' but because you want people to actually listen...and no one likes 'outsiders' telling you how to live.
Sinuhue
08-12-2005, 22:03
Well, in Canada, there are programs specifically aimed at abuse among Natives...all types of abuse, not just man on woman. They are centered around native spirituality as a way to connect people to something bigger than themselves, or to a culture they may have lost touch with. It's enjoyed great success, especially among gang members, because they are able to connect to something, a sense of belonging, not based on violence. We use traditional healing circles, and things like that. I imagine that similar programs are being set up in other communities as well...healing, support, and education needs to be culturally relevant in order to be most effective.