NationStates Jolt Archive

Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

Do I need say more. Here are 11 reasons same sex marriage is wrong.

1. The legalization of homosexual marriage will quickly destroy the traditional family.

2. Children will suffer most.

3. Public schools in every state will embrace homosexuality.

4. Adoption laws will be instantly obsolete.

5. Foster-care programs will be impacted dramatically.

6. The health care system will stagger and perhaps collapse.

7. Social Security will be severely stressed.

8. Religious freedom will almost certainly be jeopardized.

9. Other nations are watching our march toward homosexual marriage and will follow our lead.

10. The gospel of Jesus Christ will be severely curtailed.

11. The culture war will be over, and the world may soon become “as it was in the days of Noah” (Matthew 24:37).

NEVER GO AGAINST THE BIBLE

When's the last time you sacrificed an ox?

Shut up. Shut up. Shut up.

I am so sick of this topic. You're a fool, and your ideas are antiquated. That's all there is to it, so go away and stop your trolling bullshit.

Have a horrible life.

That's strange, because in the countries that have legalised same sex marriage\partnerships none of that has happened....take for example the UK, or the Netherlands.

Have you ever worn a garment made of two fabrics? Congratulations.

You're going to hell because of it.

I'm gonna go against the flow and say thank you for this post. I've never been able to find a bible verse on it till now.

Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

Do I need say more. Here are 11 reasons same sex marriage is wrong.

1. The legalization of homosexual marriage will quickly destroy the traditional family.

2. Children will suffer most.

3. Public schools in every state will embrace homosexuality.

4. Adoption laws will be instantly obsolete.

5. Foster-care programs will be impacted dramatically.

6. The health care system will stagger and perhaps collapse.

7. Social Security will be severely stressed.

8. Religious freedom will almost certainly be jeopardized.

9. Other nations are watching our march toward homosexual marriage and will follow our lead.

10. The gospel of Jesus Christ will be severely curtailed.

11. The culture war will be over, and the world may soon become “as it was in the days of Noah” (Matthew 24:37).

NEVER GO AGAINST THE BIBLE

Y'know, I'd never wished AIDS upon anyone in my life before now. Thanks for tarnishing my record, jerk.

5. Foster-care programs will be impacted dramatically.

6. The health care system will stagger and perhaps collapse.

7. Social Security will be severely stressed.

8. Religious freedom will almost certainly be jeopardized.

So how are these going to be a direct result of the legalization of same sex marriages? While I agree with you that it's wrong, some of these reasons don't seem to be logical. These are just a few.

The foster care program... Well there'd be more couples adopting, since they couldn't really have any of their own.... :p

I have no idea why health care or social security would be impacted.

How is same sex marriage going to jeapordize religious freedom? The people that are for same sex marriages are for rights, etc and thus would not ever want to eliminate anyone's religious freedom.

Social Security is in the Bible?

Oh aye, and lets not forget that a man physically lie with a man as one might with woman.

It's called biology. Learn it.

Someone had a quote in thier sig a while ago comparing how many mentions of homosexuality there where to how many mentions of heterosexuality, implying that god didn't hate heterosexuals, just thought that they needed more supervision.

There was another, from an evangelical on The Daily Show that compared how many mentions of homosexuality to instructions on helping the poor and questioned peoples priorities.

Unfortunately I don't know either numbers.

Anyway...Jesussaves has already been done, couldn't you think of a new theme for a puppet troll?

The Bible also forbids lending money for interest (or selling food for a profit), so is that the law too?

Do not take interest of any kind from him, but fear your God, so that your countryman may continue to live among you. You must not lend him money at interest or sell him food at a profit.
Leviticus 25:36-37

Do not charge your brother interest, whether on money or food or anything else that may earn interest.
Deuteronomy 23:19

If you lend money to one of my people among you who is needy, do not be like a moneylender; charge him no interest
Exodus 22:25

Are banks, loans, mortgages, credit cards, and for-profit food sellers all destroying America?

NEVER GO AGAINST THE BIBLE.

1. The legalization of homosexual marriage will quickly destroy the traditional family.
Darn, gotta hate them traditional families. Rediculous reason that has no relevence whatsover. Whats so good about a traditional family anyway?

2. Children will suffer most.
Tell that to the people who put them up for adoption. Thank the homosexual couple who adopted them for giving them a caring home.

3. Public schools in every state will embrace homosexuality.
This is just an observation. Yes they will, whats wrong with that?

4. Adoption laws will be instantly obsolete.
No...not really at all. They will be updated and changed yes but not much of a problem.

5. Foster-care programs will be impacted dramatically.
Some of them will close down with lack of need. More money to taxes which means more money to everyone else.

6. The health care system will stagger and perhaps collapse.
...why? Back up these.

7. Social Security will be severely stressed.
Because....?

8. Religious freedom will almost certainly be jeopardized.
No it won't. Just because it goes against religious beliefs does not mean it will jepardize it. Plus going against it goes against my beliefs and thats just as bad.

9. Other nations are watching our march toward homosexual marriage and will follow our lead.
Yes, they will?

10. The gospel of Jesus Christ will be severely curtailed.
Well thats peoples choices isnt it.

11. The culture war will be over, and the world may soon become “as it was in the days of Noah” (Matthew 24:37).
Im afraid I am not familliar.

I can only assume this is a joke...I think.

Shut up. Shut up. Shut up.

I am so sick of this topic. You're a fool, and your ideas are antiquated. That's all there is to it, so go away and stop your trolling bullshit.

Have a horrible life.

Oh yeah, the Soviet Union did GREAT until it imploded, what with its goddless, moral-less society.

Oh yeah, the Soviet Union did GREAT until it imploded, what with its goddless, moral-less society.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Didn't Levitican law get tossed?

[QUOTE=Nadkor]That's strange, because in the countries that have legalised same sex marriage\partnerships none of that has happened....take for example the UK, or the Netherlands.........................
QUOTE]

you forgot one word... "yet"
take a look at Soddom and Gomorah.

you forgot one word... "yet"
take a look at Soddom and Gomorah.

You MUST be having a laugh, surely? Honestly, the number of fucking nutters in the world never ceases to astound me...

When's the last time you sacrificed an ox?

Oh, I have a funny story about that one. But it was at the Dionysia and a satyr play :fluffle: was going on and... :eek:

[QUOTE=Nadkor]That's strange, because in the countries that have legalised same sex marriage\partnerships none of that has happened....take for example the UK, or the Netherlands.........................
QUOTE]

you forgot one word... "yet"
take a look at Soddom and Gomorah.

I'm not quite sure that divine punishment was one of the 11 'harms' listed, however if you wish to contend that God is going to come stike down all of the homosexuals, then that's your choice (if you listen to Pat Robertson he is already trying to do so). As for the rest of us, we are free to engage in the dying art of rational discourse.

you forgot one word... "yet"
take a look at Soddom and Gomorah.

You know I've always wondered if there have been any archeological finds of these cities?

Oh, I have a funny story about that one. But it was at the Dionysia and a satyr play :fluffle: was going on and... :eek:

*hyperventilates* marry me please?

Sigh, there are entire books proving that literal interpretation of the Bible is ineffective, at best. In addition, the Bible is manipulated as a social policy tool by churches. So yeah, I doubt that it has much to do with what Jesus intended.

So do explain, if Jesus saw all men and women as equal and told them to respect one another, why should we read the Bible in any other way?

Get a clue. :)

You MUST be having a laugh, surely? Honestly, the number of fucking nutters in the world never ceases to astound me...
What do you think global warming is??? Hmm? You thought it was corporate America. Well now you know better. Or I could see Karl Rove making some kind of commercial that way.

Would we also agree with:

Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord.
Colossians 3:22

So of course that should be the law, and slavery should be legal, after all...

NEVER GO AGAINST THE BIBLE

*hyperventilates* marry me please?
oh my goodness... wait 5 mins

[QUOTE=Nadkor]That's strange, because in the countries that have legalised same sex marriage\partnerships none of that has happened....take for example the UK, or the Netherlands.........................
QUOTE]

you forgot one word... "yet"
take a look at Soddom and Gomorah.
Sodom?

Oh, you mean that story about inhospitality?

Not that I could give a fuck about the bible, I live in a country that is doing perfectly well without it.

You know I've always wondered if there have been any archeological finds of these cities?

well, they are looking, and they did find some interesting stuff.
here is a link. http://www.bibleplus.org/discoveries/sodomfound.htm
I dunno, it looks kinda cool though.
Dont know if it totally true though either, but something to think about.

Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

Being an atheist, I don't really care what the Bible has to say... but if you really want to convince any Christians, I suggest you find something from the New Testament. Unless, of course, you want them to obey all those other silly Old Testament laws, as well.

1. The legalization of homosexual marriage will quickly destroy the traditional family.

Evidence? I think the reverse is true... Politicizing marriage by deciding that "certain" couples can't take part is what is destroying the institution. Personally, my girlfriend and I have decided that we refuse to get married so long as it remains an unequal institution... so who's done the destroying here?

2. Children will suffer most.

What children? Why?

3. Public schools in every state will embrace homosexuality.

I wish!!!!!!

4. Adoption laws will be instantly obsolete.

What does that even mean? Does marrying gay people mean I also have to give children to unfit parents? I'm not following.

5. Foster-care programs will be impacted dramatically.

Okay, this is even more vague than the previous point. Are you just making these up for the hell of it? Is there an argument here?

6. The health care system will stagger and perhaps collapse.

Ooookaaaay.... And why is that? Are you somehow worried about the rights that gay partners will get to make medical decisions for their partners? Most homosexuals in committed relationships have that now anyway, through a little procedure known as "power of attorney."

Still, I don't see even a remote relationship between that and your point.

7. Social Security will be severely stressed.

This is, perhaps, even worse than the last.

8. Religious freedom will almost certainly be jeopardized.

How? Look, all I want is for states (through their non-religious justices of the peace) to marry any couple who wants it. I'll take "civil unions" for gay couples as a second choice, but it should really be called the same thing. Why? Because even if the rights are identical, giving it a separate name essentially sanctions discrimination, because it affirms that homosexual couples are "different" in some legally relevant sense.

As for religious marriages... I don't think the state should tell any religious official whom he or she can or cannot marry. If a pastor/priest/minister wants to marry a homosexual couple, it should be legal for her/him to do so... although he/she may have some explaining to do to her/his religious superiors. If the pastor/priest/minister believes it is against her/his religion to perform the marriage, then that just means the couple will have to go to the state to do it.

9. Other nations are watching our march toward homosexual marriage and will follow our lead.

Other nations have already taken the lead. It is up to us to follow, or remain the throwback that we have been to date.

10. The gospel of Jesus Christ will be severely curtailed.

Don't care, don't buy it.

11. The culture war will be over, and the world may soon become “as it was in the days of Noah” (Matthew 24:37).

You mean when people weren't allowed to eat meat? What?

Yay for trolling! and feeding the troll! I should troll more myself, maybe someone would listen to me if I sounded like a dumbass.

Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination.

Like... with his penis in the man's vagina?

I think we're pretty safe on that count. :D

God, if you do what this dumbass who started the topic says you will and kill all the homosexual, could you give him a brain tumor as well, just out of fairness?

Sigh, there are entire books proving that literal interpretation of the Bible is ineffective, at best
So do explain, if Jesus saw all men and women as equal and told them to respect one another, why should we read the Bible in any other way?
So uhh which one are you going for here?

Here we go again. Another Christian conservative making all of us other Christians look like goose stepping nazis. Thanks a lot. And read the rest of that chapter. Leviticus 20:9 Anyone who curses his father or mother shall be put to death. So anyone ever get mad and curse a parant? Aparently we should kill you. Read the whole chapter next time ok?

So uhh which one are you going for here?
I want him to explain why the Bible contradicts itself. He is following a literal interpretation. So I want him to uncover for himself the idiocy of using such an approach.

The Bible also forbids lending money for interest (or selling food for a profit), so is that the law too?

Are banks, loans, mortgages, credit cards, and for-profit food sellers all destroying America?

NEVER GO AGAINST THE BIBLE.

I would just like to say thank you, up to the point there had been nothing in the bible, to my knowledge, that I agreed with. Viva la non-interest loans!

God, if you do what this dumbass who started the topic says you will and kill all the homosexual, could you give him a brain tumor as well, just out of fairness?

AMEN.

Oh yeah, the Soviet Union did GREAT until it imploded, what with its goddless, moral-less society.

Religion or the lack thereoff had nothing to do with the Soviet Union's implosion. It was economics and politics. Learn some history before you open your mouth please.

I'm happy to anounce that 2 weeks ago in Belgium a law was passed which allows married gay couples to adopt children.

I am just curious as to the fact that in the Islamic, and the Judeo-Christian religions, they are strictly against homosexuality. Thousands of years ago, they were against it, and you have to wonder why? What caused them to be against it? I dont think some guy was just sitting there chipping into a rock 3000 years ago and just magically came up with the idea.

Not that I could give a fuck about the bible, I live in a country that is doing perfectly well without it.

Strangest description of Northern Ireland I have yet come across.

1. The legalization of homosexual marriage will quickly destroy the traditional family.
I would imagine that strait people would continue to marry people of the opposite sex and procreate.

2. Children will suffer most.
How would they suffer? Maybe they would learn tolerance at an earlier age.

3. Public schools in every state will embrace homosexuality.
...and maybe even start teaching that it's OK to be gay, possibly leading to a decline in the suicide rate of homosexual adolescants.

4. Adoption laws will be instantly obsolete.
How?

5. Foster-care programs will be impacted dramatically.
How?

6. The health care system will stagger and perhaps collapse.
WTF?? Is this even related?

7. Social Security will be severely stressed.
Gay people still retire, whether or not they're married. I fail to see how social security would be affected. And isn't it already severely stressed?

8. Religious freedom will almost certainly be jeopardized.
No one is going to make a religious institution recognize homosexual marriages if they don't want to. Several churches/synagogues/etc. already perform and recognize same-sex marriages, proving that there IS religious autonomy on the issue. I think that a greater threat to our first ammendment rights is to let a religious argument be the basis for any law, especially one concerning civil rights.

9. Other nations are watching our march toward homosexual marriage and will follow our lead.
Many nations recognize same-sex marriage, many don't. If they did follow our lead and begin to recognize same-sex marriage, it would be a step foreward.

10. The gospel of Jesus Christ will be severely curtailed.
Not going to go there.

11. The culture war will be over, and the world may soon become “as it was in the days of Noah” (Matthew 24:37).

So are you going to continue to hide behind your religious dogma, or are you going to back up your ridiculous claims?

I am just curious as to the fact that in the Islamic, and the Judeo-Christian religions, they are strictly against homosexuality. Thousands of years ago, they were against it, and you have to wonder why? What caused them to be against it? I dont think some guy was just sitting there chipping into a rock 3000 years ago and just magically came up with the idea.
Its a social policy tool. Its based on two inaccuracies:
a) Homosexuality is a contagious disease. Its not. Some are born gay, most are not. There is no one gene which makes you gay. Plus, if you're not procreating, what is the risk? :rolleyes:

b) Homosexuality would case birth rates to decline. Yet, homosexuals do not even account for 10% of the population. So how this is possible is beyond me. This may not even be an issue when genetics evolves to allow gay couples to have children.

I am just curious as to the fact that in the Islamic, and the Judeo-Christian religions, they are strictly against homosexuality. Thousands of years ago, they were against it, and you have to wonder why? What caused them to be against it? I dont think some guy was just sitting there chipping into a rock 3000 years ago and just magically came up with the idea.

People fear what they don't understand. It's that simple they didn't understand it and so it must be evil.

fuck the bible and fuck you life would be so much better if we got rid of fucking religon :mp5:

I am just curious as to the fact that in the Islamic, and the Judeo-Christian religions, they are strictly against homosexuality. Thousands of years ago, they were against it, and you have to wonder why? What caused them to be against it? I dont think some guy was just sitting there chipping into a rock 3000 years ago and just magically came up with the idea.

More likely than not. He did. Pretending to have "divine messages" to convince the masses is a great way to control a populace.

Religion or the lack thereoff had nothing to do with the Soviet Union's implosion. It was economics and politics. Learn some history before you open your mouth please.

Ahh, but you see, the Pope also called for Communism to collapse as well. I guess repressing religious people from expressing thier religion didnt do much either. Communism was the biggest enemy to religion. With out religion, and morals, a government can do what it wants with whomever it pleases.

Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

Do I need say more. Here are 11 reasons same sex marriage is wrong.

1. The legalization of homosexual marriage will quickly destroy the traditional family.

2. Children will suffer most.

3. Public schools in every state will embrace homosexuality.

4. Adoption laws will be instantly obsolete.

5. Foster-care programs will be impacted dramatically.

6. The health care system will stagger and perhaps collapse.

7. Social Security will be severely stressed.

8. Religious freedom will almost certainly be jeopardized.

9. Other nations are watching our march toward homosexual marriage and will follow our lead.

10. The gospel of Jesus Christ will be severely curtailed.

11. The culture war will be over, and the world may soon become “as it was in the days of Noah” (Matthew 24:37).

NEVER GO AGAINST THE BIBLE
So? It's a moot point here in Canada. We've got it, and it's not going away.

*yawns*

See you 'round.

Ahh, but you see, the Pope also called for Communism to collapse as well. I guess repressing religious people from expressing thier religion didnt do much either. Communism was the biggest enemy to religion. With out religion, and morals, a government can do what it wants with whomever it pleases.
Ever heard of a Constitution? :rolleyes:

fuck the bible and fuck you life would be so much better if we got rid of fucking religon :mp5:
Hey we're not all bad.

Ever heard of a Constitution? :rolleyes:

Bush sure hasn't...or the topic creator.

Ahh, but you see, the Pope also called for Communism to collapse as well. I guess repressing religious people from expressing thier religion didnt do much either. Communism was the biggest enemy to religion. With out religion, and morals, a government can do what it wants with whomever it pleases.

Funny how some of history's greatest dictators have been against homosexuality. And I loved the "With out religion, and morals," one, you mean governments like Iran??? Or basically any government before the humanism, scientific, and age of reason revolutions?

Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

Do I need say more. Here are 11 reasons same sex marriage is wrong.

1. The legalization of homosexual marriage will quickly destroy the traditional family.

2. Children will suffer most.

3. Public schools in every state will embrace homosexuality.

4. Adoption laws will be instantly obsolete.

5. Foster-care programs will be impacted dramatically.

6. The health care system will stagger and perhaps collapse.

7. Social Security will be severely stressed.

8. Religious freedom will almost certainly be jeopardized.

9. Other nations are watching our march toward homosexual marriage and will follow our lead.

10. The gospel of Jesus Christ will be severely curtailed.

11. The culture war will be over, and the world may soon become “as it was in the days of Noah” (Matthew 24:37).

NEVER GO AGAINST THE BIBLE

Would you mind telling us where you live?

fuck the bible and fuck you life would be so much better if we got rid of fucking religon :mp5:

Yeah you are right!
Hey everyone! do what you want!
Have no fear of going to hell or any moral implications!
Sleep with your sisters and brothers! Cheat, lie, steal!
Go fuck a goat! Go out and kill people for fun!
Have sex witheverything and everyone! Do not worry
about morals, they just get in the way of your life!
Do what you want! PURE ANARCHY!!! YEAH!
Fuck any sense of spirituality and go worship the devil!
Tell your parents to go to hell! There is nothing beyond this life,
so do what you want!!!!
Yeah the world would a much better place without religion!
(sarcasm)

Ever heard of a Constitution? :rolleyes:
why are you afraid of religion?

Yeah you are right!
Hey everyone! do what you want!
Have no fear of going to hell or any moral implications!
Sleep with your sisters and brothers! Cheat, lie, steal!
Go fuck a goat! Go out and kill people for fun!
Have sex witheverything and everyone! Do not worry
about morals, they just get in the way of your life!
Do what you want! PURE ANARCHY!!! YEAH!
Fuck any sense of spirituality and go worship the devil!
Tell your parents to go to hell! There is nothing beyond this life,
so do what you want!!!!
Yeah the world would a much better place without religion!
(sarcasm)

Why are you so much against Anarchy? If everyone was a good Christian, wouldn't there be no reason for the government? Why such a fan of Caesar?

NEVER GO AGAINST THE BIBLE
NEVER GO AGAINST THE CONSTITUTION!
Yes I'm a hopeless Constitution worshipper

In the land of the free, where the church and state are supposed to be separate, it would be wrong not to give fellow citizens the same rights everyone else enjoys. To hate your fellow man for being homosexual is immoral. Gay people only have to answer to God, not to the church. The church is a building with old men wrapped in glittering robes! God is God and makes no error. Let gays answer to God, not men. Personally, I don't think God will have a problem with it.

why are you afraid of religion?
They have read a history book

Why are you so much against Anarchy? If everyone was a good Christian, wouldn't there be no reason for the government? Why such a fan of Caesar?

so name one counrty or society that has successful anarchy?

Worship the devil... Tell your parents to go to hell!
(sarcasm)
First no religion no devil to worship. Second acording to Leviticus 20:9 then we would have to kill you.

Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

Do I need say more. Here are 11 reasons same sex marriage is wrong.

1. The legalization of homosexual marriage will quickly destroy the traditional family.

2. Children will suffer most.

3. Public schools in every state will embrace homosexuality.

4. Adoption laws will be instantly obsolete.

5. Foster-care programs will be impacted dramatically.

6. The health care system will stagger and perhaps collapse.

7. Social Security will be severely stressed.

8. Religious freedom will almost certainly be jeopardized.

9. Other nations are watching our march toward homosexual marriage and will follow our lead.

10. The gospel of Jesus Christ will be severely curtailed.

11. The culture war will be over, and the world may soon become “as it was in the days of Noah” (Matthew 24:37).

NEVER GO AGAINST THE BIBLE

Try to use a NT verse, you won't look like a nut case. Notice how Jesus wasn't down with us killing sinners? How he saved that adulteress? Their judgement will come in the end.

We do not follow the law of Leviticus, we follow the Ten Commanments.

While we are on the subject of abominations to God, those who refer to themselves as Christians, need not be too smug against gays who practice homosexuality. Many Christians practice what Jesus Christ referred to as abominations to God in their regular worship services, and do not even know they are just as guilty of offending God almighty as much as the gays are.

Here is a relevent one for you. Pray for forgiveness.

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." I Cor. 6:9-I0

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/3157/85317yt.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Fuck any sense of spirituality and go worship the devil!


How can one worship without a sense of spirituality, pray tell?

They have read a history book

so its bad to have spirtuality?

Yeah you are right!
Hey everyone! do what you want!
Have no fear of going to hell or any moral implications!
Sleep with your sisters and brothers! Cheat, lie, steal!
Go fuck a goat! Go out and kill people for fun!
Have sex witheverything and everyone! Do not worry
about morals, they just get in the way of your life!
Do what you want! PURE ANARCHY!!! YEAH!
Fuck any sense of spirituality and go worship the devil!
Tell your parents to go to hell! There is nothing beyond this life,
so do what you want!!!!
Yeah the world would a much better place without religion!
(sarcasm)
You're absolutly right ever since I decided for myself God is a load of bull, I find myself fancying the neighbours horse. A mighty fine ass it has. yummy.

I Corinthians 14:34-35:
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

NEVER GO AGAINST THE BIBLE! FORBID WOMEN TO SPEAK IN CHURCH!

Yeah you are right!
Hey everyone! do what you want!
Have no fear of going to hell or any moral implications!
Sleep with your sisters and brothers! Cheat, lie, steal!
Go fuck a goat! Go out and kill people for fun!
Have sex witheverything and everyone! Do not worry
about morals, they just get in the way of your life!
Do what you want! PURE ANARCHY!!! YEAH!
Fuck any sense of spirituality and go worship the devil!
Tell your parents to go to hell! There is nothing beyond this life,
so do what you want!!!!
Yeah the world would a much better place without religion!
(sarcasm)
i sead religon not law

In the land of the free, where the church and state are supposed to be separate, it would be wrong not to give fellow citizens the same rights everyone else enjoys. To hate your fellow man for being homosexual is immoral. Gay people only have to answer to God, not to the church. The church is a building with old men wrapped in glittering robes! God is God and makes no error. Let gays answer to God, not men. Personally, I don't think God will have a problem with it.

Otherwise people must answer for their sins to men. Which means you are putting those men on a powerful alter.

Already, laws have been made to ban flag burning, calling it the "desecration" of the flag. That is a word reserved for religious meanings. The State sees itself as a god.

They have read a history book

:)

i sead religon not law

some of the laws came from religious writings as well!
http://www.bibleplus.org/homosexuality/homo.htm#The%20story%20of%20Sodom%20and%20Gomorrah
read through it!
we have laws that follow closely of what was written then too!

so name one counrty or society that has successful anarchy?

Name one successful country (high GDP and standard of living) that has a government that follows all the things you want it to.

Not that I was defending Anarchy. Just saying if everyone is Christian there would be no need for government, which you have just said won't happen. So why lecture everybody?

some of the laws came from religious writings as well!
http://www.bibleplus.org/homosexuality/homo.htm#The%20story%20of%20Sodom%20and%20Gomorrah
read through it!
we have laws that follow closely of what was written then too!
ah then how is the church and state seperate then:)

some of the laws came from religious writings as well!
http://www.bibleplus.org/homosexuality/homo.htm#The%20story%20of%20Sodom%20and%20Gomorrah
read through it!
we have laws that follow closely of what was written then too!

From pagan Rome and English common law too.

If there is a God (I think there is) we have to acknowledge that what religon does isn't It's fault. Now if It would get down here and give us a hand I would be very thankful.

Otherwise people must answer for their sins to men. Which means you are putting those men on a powerful alter.

Already, laws have been made to ban flag burning, calling it the "desecration" of the flag. That is a word reserved for religious meanings. The State sees itself as a god.

Well, if I have to start praying to Lord Bush the Divine every night, I am SO moving to Canada. If they want me to pray to a maple leaf, I'm going to a deserted island.

ah then how is the church and state seperate then:)
so what do you suppose we do?
Should we take out the laws that were written
also in the Bible as well, because it was religious?
:) hmm.... Idont know

ah then how is the church and state seperate then:)

In practice, they unfortunately are not.

From pagan Rome and English common law too.
um, yeah, but the Bible came before the England, and Rome. Where did they get their ideas from?

Meh the bible is overrated. Jurassic Park on the other hand now that was some damn good fiction.

Greece

And I suppose you are saying they got it from somewhere. Well I guess it was Zeus then, or Jupiter if you are a roman

um, yeah, but the Bible came before the England, and Rome. Where did they get their ideas from?

Their ass.

Seriously though, way back when people took religion much more literally than we do. Thank God we have changed (maybe, the Christian Conservatives sure as Hell haven't).

Yeah you are right!
Hey everyone! do what you want!
Have no fear of going to hell or any moral implications!
Sleep with your sisters and brothers! Cheat, lie, steal!
Go fuck a goat! Go out and kill people for fun!
Have sex witheverything and everyone! Do not worry
about morals, they just get in the way of your life!
Do what you want! PURE ANARCHY!!! YEAH!
Fuck any sense of spirituality and go worship the devil!
Tell your parents to go to hell! There is nothing beyond this life,
so do what you want!!!!
Yeah the world would a much better place without religion!
(sarcasm)

Religion isn't the only thing that gives us morals y'know. I reject religion pretty much completely (I meditate but that doesn't really count) yet I still live what most people would consider to be a morally good life - I don't steal, don't cheat, don't lie (often), only have sex with my long-term boyfriend, respect my parents, don't do drugs, etc. etc.... yet I don't believe in God, or Heaven, and I think the Bible is mainly a load of rubbish.
If the only reason you have any kind of morals is because you believe there's something 'beyond this life', I really pity you. The reason I try to live a good life is because I don't believe there is anything beyond this life, and I want to make the world a bit better while I have the chance, rather than for my own selfish ends.

so what do you suppose we do?
Should we take out the laws that were written
also in the Bible as well, because it was religious?
:) hmm.... Idont know

Why do you wish to use the State to do you're bidding? When did Jesus say to covert through the sword? If you wish to use it fine, just remember who else would love such a society.

um, yeah, but the Bible came before the England, and Rome. Where did they get their ideas from?

Rome developed its ideas from Greece, who weren't particularly influenced by Judaism. At all.

English Common Law has its roots in a mishmash of Roman Law, and anglo-saxon legal traditions (germanic, pagan) matricied through Norman (Viking-Frankish-Early French) sensibilities.

Pleased to help!

some of the laws came from religious writings as well!
http://www.bibleplus.org/homosexuality/homo.htm#The%20story%20of%20Sodom%20and%20Gomorrah
read through it!


Uh-huh, and this is coming from a website which claims that Jesus had only 24 chromosomes*. Are we to place such similar faith in that statement too?




* interestingly enough this is exactly the same number as snails possess.

so what do you suppose we do?
Should we take out the laws that were written
also in the Bible as well, because it was religious?
:) hmm.... Idont know
change them
religon is the cause of most wars
and weve all herd of the priests touching young boys and since there males isnt that classed as gay yet the church will still protectc them:sniper:

Strangest description of Northern Ireland I have yet come across.
Well, if you exclude the DUP.

What's with going back to BWO? Given up on Grampus?

um, yeah, but the Bible came before the England, and Rome. Where did they get their ideas from?

Before Rome? Dude. Learn some history before you shoot your mouth off again. Your ignorance is really offensive.

Brain bad. Bible good.

Superstition > Science.

Faith > Logic.

Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

Do I need say more.

Yes. First of all, if you are going to use OT law as being set in stone by God, you have to explain to me why your God doesn't understand basic biology, thinks that women are lesser beings to men, and approves of slavery. You'll have to explain why your God condones genocide. Does this really sound like an all-good loving God to you?

Second of all, do you read Hebrew? There are disputes as to exactly how that verse should be translated.

1. The legalization of homosexual marriage will quickly destroy the traditional family.

(a) What are you calling the "traditional family". If we are truly looking at tradition, the family would be parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, older siblings and their spouses, etc. all living in the same household, or at least on the same land, and all working together. If you are referring to the "nuclear family", you can hardly state that an idea that's only been around since the '50's is a huge tradition.

(b) How will allowing homosexuals to have equal protection under the law destroy anyone else's family? Do you think all the happily married couples are going to look at homosexual couples getting married and decide to break it all off and go get a homosexual spouse instead?

2. Children will suffer most.

By being better protected by the law and learning that everyone in this country is equal, regardless of religion, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, etc?

3. Public schools in every state will embrace homosexuality.

How can a school "embrace" a sexuality? Are you suggesting that schools will somehow try to make people gay?

4. Adoption laws will be instantly obsolete.

That makes no sense at all.

5. Foster-care programs will be impacted dramatically.

You mean by having more eligible foster parents? Good! That means that more children can live in loving homes instead of orphanages.

6. The health care system will stagger and perhaps collapse.

This is truly silly. You're just making things up now, aren't you?

7. Social Security will be severely stressed.

It already is. This is nothing new.

8. Religious freedom will almost certainly be jeopardized.

This is the most idiotic among your claims. How on earth will religious freedom be jeapardized by giving homosexuals equal protection under the law?

9. Other nations are watching our march toward homosexual marriage and will follow our lead.

Oh noes! People will actually see the US treating all of its citizens equally! Whatever will we do!?

10. The gospel of Jesus Christ will be severely curtailed.

Jesus Christ never condemned homosexuals anywhere in the Gospels.

11. The culture war will be over, and the world may soon become “as it was in the days of Noah” (Matthew 24:37).

Yes, because the people in the days of Noah allowed gay marriage, and that's why they got drowned...

NEVER GO AGAINST THE BIBLE

One would think the credo would be, "Never go against God." Oh well.

Elgesh']Rome developed its ideas from Greece, who weren't particularly influenced by Judaism. At all.

English Common Law has its roots in a mishmash of Roman Law, and anglo-saxon legal traditions (germanic, pagan) matricied through Norman (Viking-Frankish-Early French) sensibilities.

Pleased to help!

I have to say that that was particulary helpful:)

Why do you wish to use the State to do you're bidding? When did Jesus say to covert through the sword? If you wish to use it fine, just remember who else would love such a society.

I did not mean it like that mind you.
I am saying that if you have read our laws and
what was written in some of the Bible verses, they are
pretty much the same. Although we are not killing people for
what they did like how it was advocated before.

mind you, this was written before Jesus' times!

I have to say that that was particulary helpful:)

Hey, cheers!:) Nice of you to say.

Uh-huh, and this is coming from a website which claims that Jesus had only 24 chromosomes*. Are we to place such similar faith in that statement too?




* interestingly enough this is exactly the same number as snails possess.
look I just wanted to show you something cool, and you go and crap all over it! I would like to see you explain what the hell happened there.

you forgot one word... "yet"
take a look at Soddom and Gomorah.

What does inhospitality, promiscuity, and rape have to do with the topic at hand?

change them
religon is the cause of most wars
:sniper:

The people just wanted am excuse for a war. If there was no religion the wars would still be there but with a different reason. Religon did give use a bunch of charaties so it has done some good.

look I just wanted to show you something cool, and you go and crap all over it! I would like to see you explain what the hell happened there.

Where? At the crucifixion, or at the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah?

the site of sodom and gomorrah.
you do have to admit, it is intreaguing in an archiolgical way! :)

God, if you do what this dumbass who started the topic says you will and kill all the homosexual, could you give him a brain tumor as well, just out of fairness?

Amen

Has anyone else noticed that we've strayed away from the original topic?

Death Worship is the only real religon.

the site of sodom and gomorrah.
you do have to admit, it is intreaguing in an archiolgical way! :)
Archeological?

You mean how archeologists have never found Sodom?

Is that's what's intriguing?

That's all find and dandy(only read the first post) but marriage doesn't just belong to the Christians. People were marrying before Christianity and in regions where Christianity hadn't touched yet when it was around.

Yeah you are right!
Hey everyone! do what you want!
Have no fear of going to hell or any moral implications!
Sleep with your sisters and brothers! Cheat, lie, steal!
Go fuck a goat! Go out and kill people for fun!
Have sex witheverything and everyone! Do not worry
about morals, they just get in the way of your life!
Do what you want! PURE ANARCHY!!! YEAH!
Fuck any sense of spirituality and go worship the devil!
Tell your parents to go to hell! There is nothing beyond this life,
so do what you want!!!!
Yeah the world would a much better place without religion!
(sarcasm)


If your religion is the only reason you act in a moral manner, you have bigger problems than worrying about gay marriage - like a total lack of humanity

Has anyone else noticed that we've strayed away from the original topic?
Of course we have, it's NS General.

no I mean, that its kinda cool what they found there!

Death Worship is the only real religon.
That has notihng to do with the original topic and btw... NO

I did not mean it like that mind you.
I am saying that if you have read our laws and
what was written in some of the Bible verses, they are
pretty much the same. Although we are not killing people for
what they did like how it was advocated before.

mind you, this was written before Jesus' times!

I'm sorry, but you missed my point. If you want the government to do anything outside of Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness you will have to deal with the consequences. If you do not defend such a liberal democracy, with equal rights to all, then you will see what has happened under all the old systems. Christain conservatives, enjoy your control of government for now. You have destroyed the small government Republicans and replaced them with neoconservatives. But I warn you, one day they might find out it is you they don't need, especially the vocal ones. Then you will see the days of Caesar return.

no I mean, that its kinda cool what they found there!
You mean nothing is kinda cool?

After all, that's what they've found of Sodom.

Of course we have, it's NS General.
good point

Try to use a NT verse, you won't look like a nut case. Notice how Jesus wasn't down with us killing sinners? How he saved that adulteress? Their judgement will come in the end.

We do not follow the law of Leviticus, we follow the Ten Commanments.



For the record, the Ten Commandments come from the old testament.

I'm sorry, but you missed my point. If you want the government to do anything outside of Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness you will have to deal with the consequences. If you do not defend such a liberal democracy, with equal rights to all, then you will see what has happened under all the old systems. Christain conservatives, enjoy your control of government for now. You have destroyed the small government Republicans and replaced them with neoconservatives. But I warn you, one day they might find out it is you they don't need, especially the vocal ones. Then you will see the days of Caesar return.

hmm. I am more worried of the old Hammer and Sickle returning than ceasar.

Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination...."as he lies with a woman"? This looks like a rule against multiple sex partners - ie: men shouldn't sleep with another man while also sleeping with a woman.

The real question is: is "as" in the Levitican passage used as a conjunction or a preposition?

You mean nothing is kinda cool?

After all, that's what they've found of Sodom.
did you even look at the website?

hmm. I am more worried of the old Hammer and Sickle returning than ceasar.
come now comrade, what;s the worst that could happen....:mp5: :mp5: :mp5:

um, yeah, but the Bible came before the England, and Rome. Where did they get their ideas from?

The first written code of laws was, IIRC, Hammurabi. Most written codes since then have drawn from his code.

Hmm, here are some Bible quotes I am fond of.


John 8:7 "So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."


Matthew 7:1-5 "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

did you even look at the website?
Nope, why?

hmm. I am more worried of the old Hammer and Sickle returning than ceasar.

Yes, we know China is going to rule the world soon.

..."as he lies with a woman"? This looks like a rule against multiple sex partners - ie: men shouldn't sleep with another man while also sleeping with a woman.

The real question is: is "as" in the Levitican passage used as a conjunction or a preposition?
don't bring lit into this! I'm supposesd to be writing an essay right now, and I don't want to think about it.

Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

Do I need say more. Here are 11 reasons same sex marriage is wrong.

1. The legalization of homosexual marriage will quickly destroy the traditional family.

2. Children will suffer most.

3. Public schools in every state will embrace homosexuality.

4. Adoption laws will be instantly obsolete.

5. Foster-care programs will be impacted dramatically.

6. The health care system will stagger and perhaps collapse.

7. Social Security will be severely stressed.

8. Religious freedom will almost certainly be jeopardized.

9. Other nations are watching our march toward homosexual marriage and will follow our lead.

10. The gospel of Jesus Christ will be severely curtailed.

11. The culture war will be over, and the world may soon become “as it was in the days of Noah” (Matthew 24:37).

NEVER GO AGAINST THE BIBLE
1. The traditional family will suffer more by keeping current divorce laws in act. Address those for that issue please.

2. Children always suffer most since they haven't had the time yet to grow some skin.

3. As things are today, schools are not allowed to fire gay teachers already. Address those laws instead for this point.

4. Changing one law will not make another obsolete (non-existent). It can only alternate our interpretation of another law. And, as it is today, gay people are already allowed to adopt children. Please address that law for this issue.

5. Although there could possibly be an increase of children that will be taken into foster care by gay couples, I do not see why this is a bad thing. It might relieve the orphanages of some stress.

6. As gay people get into relationships and get married, don't you think they'd be less likely to sleep around and get AIDS? Or did you mean it's the administrative work that needs to be done that makes the system collapse? Because, for as far as I know, computers that store these files wouldn't have a problem with people being gay and computers in The Netherlands, Spain and Belgium seem to be doing fine.

7. Only if people who respond to this in a negative way decide to compromize social security. There have been riots before, I say we can handle them.

8. Do you think religious freedom was jeopardized after the instillment of divorce laws? If so, how?

9. I'd like a list of those nations on my desk by monday.

10. After all, it was Jesus who said: "Same-sex marriage is wrong." Or wasn't it? Why do you think he never said that?

11. I do not have any clue as to what the cultural war is, but I'll try to make a guess. If I'm wrong, please correct me if you will, so I can form my opinion on your view of things.
The cultural war might be something like good culture versus bad culture. It makes me think of Soddom and Gomorra (speling?), the two cities that were destroyed because of the immoral culture they had.
So what you're saying is that there is a cultural war going on, between our culture of immoral secularity and your culture of moral and decent religion. But you see, there's one problem here. While you're trying to win a war, the other side isn't even fighting. While you want the law to be Christian, your opponents want the law to be Christian too, as well as Islamic, Jewish, Amish, Catholic, Agnostic, Wiccan, Hindu and so on. You see, we, or at least I, only want to make sure that every human being can pursue her or his happiness to the fullest. If you choose to believe in the bible and want to live your life according to it so you may enter heaven, then go right ahead, you have my (albeit secular) blessing. If you choose however to believe that there are at least 24 Germanic Gods and you want to perform rituals that hurt no one else to get into Nirvana, then go right ahead. Again, you have my blessing. If you choose to believe in the bible but live not according to it because you feel that God has abandoned you and you don't care anymore if you go to hell, then I feel sorry for you and would ask you what I could do to help. If there wouldn't be anything I could do, then you still would recieve my blessing. As for the agnostic and atheistic, those people can also only 'believe' there is no God. Eventhough they might be wrong, that doesn't mean you have to make them live by the laws you have chosen to to believe in. On judgement day, if that day comes, you might turn out to be right. But until that day, we can't be sure, so let's just have everybody seek their own truth. Congratulations on finding yours.

..."as he lies with a woman"? This looks like a rule against multiple sex partners - ie: men shouldn't sleep with another man while also sleeping with a woman.

The real question is: is "as" in the Levitican passage used as a conjunction or a preposition?


"As" in this sense means "in the same way" basicly Yahweh is saying to not sleep with a man as you would with a woman AKA no sexual relations.

Nope, why?

so take a look!
unless anything religious offends you.

so take a look!
unless anything religious offends you.
Link me it again and I will.

did you even look at the website?

Yes, its the old Ron Wyatt tales dragged out into the daylight once again.

don't bring lit into this! I'm supposesd to be writing an essay right now, and I don't want to think about it.It's a relevant question! I demand this issue be studied by biblical scholars! We could be turning centuries of tradition on its ear!

What did the original Aramaic(?) say?

hmm. I am more worried of the old Hammer and Sickle returning than ceasar.
Communism on its own accord would collapse within years. We pumped money into the Soviet Union when there was terrible famines. I know it seemed like the right thing to do at the time, but it only allowed the government to continue to Stalin, who ended up starving more people with Collectivism in agriculture (and making a successful Industrial drive, I'll give credit where due.)

No, communism is not as scary, the spread of fascism is. Because fascism does not endanger its industrial base as much, it continues to produce, but produce for the State, who is empowered through war.

"As" in this sense means "in the same way" basicly Yahweh is saying to not sleep with a man as you would with a woman AKA no sexual relations.Conjunction or prepostion? How do you know your interpretation is correct, if you can't even tell me what part of speech it is?

"As" in this sense means "in the same way" basicly Yahweh is saying to not sleep with a man as you would with a woman AKA no sexual relations.

Is "as" a word in Hebrew? Because I was thinking it was an English word and that translations from Hebrew into English require quite a bit of interpretation. Not to mention that, in traditional Bibles, that verse has been translated from Hebrew to Greek to Latin to English, possibly with another step or two in between.

It's a relevant question! I demand this issue be studied by biblical scholars! We could be turning centuries of tradition on its ear!

What did the original Aramaic(?) say?

I'd like too know as well, but does anyone know their Aramaic well enough to answer your request....

http://www.bibleplus.org/homosexuali...and%20Gomorrah

For the record, the Ten Commandments come from the old testament.


Really??? Thanks for clearing that up for me, oh you wonderful Bible scholar.

http://www.bibleplus.org/homosexuali...and%20Gomorrah
HTTP/1.1 404 Object Not Found
?

Is "as" a word in Hebrew? Because I was thinking it was an English word and that translations from Hebrew into English require quite a bit of interpretation. Not to mention that, in traditional Bibles, that verse has been translated from Hebrew to Greek to Latin to English, possibly with another step or two in between.That was my next question - did the original translators know their grammar? Cause those King James guys were WAAAY more interested in poetic flow than strict parts of speech. They've even be known to make up words! The horror!


( :D )

http://www.bibleplus.org/homosexuali...and%20Gomorrah

Ahem....

http://www.bibleplus.org/homosexuality/homo.htm#The%20story%20of%20Sodom%20and%20Gomorrah

crap sorry bout that,
uh, just go back to page 5 I believe my original post, try it there!

I'd like too know as well, but does anyone know their Aramaic well enough to answer your request....

Considering that the earliest copies we have of the OT Scriptures are in Hebrew, not Aramaic, I don't think you need Aramaic at all. If you want to talk to someone who can read Hebrew, speak to Grave'n'Idle, but the fundamentalists here won't like what he has to say. He's stated on the forum more than once, in great detail, rationale for thinking that the Leviticus verse in question is actually an admonition against a man sleeping with a menstruating woman.

That was my next question - did the original translators know their grammar? Cause those King James guys were WAAAY more interested in poetic flow than strict parts of speech. They've even be known to make up words! The horror!


( :D )

Let's take a poll. Who thinks Shakespeare wrote or had a significant part in writing the King James Bible?

Leviticus? Oh, this should be fun... According the Leviticus:

God calls for the sacrifices of 'unblemished' male animals, providing specific examples for such. Rather messy process, with blood sprinkled around and such. Heck, it provides those instructions multiple times, like we can't get it the first time. These sacrifices apparently make up for your sins.

If you touch unclean things, you are now unclean and guilty. Same goes for the 'uncleanness of man'.

Lessee... Some good laws regarding theft, followed by more sacrifices... Fat and blood are for God only... Jeez, this thing is one giant description of animal sacrifices.

Ouch. A couple of Aaron's sons offer 'strange fire' and are burned to death; then it says that if priests uncover their heads, drink alcohol, tear their clothes, or are sloppy with the holy oil, they'll be killed by God, who in turn will punish the people. Gotta love that guilt by association.

Hmm, says that you shouldn't eat hares because they chew cud. But they don't. Strange. This goes with the ban on eating pig.

Aha! Abominations! So, anything from the sea without fins or scales is an abomination to consume. Clams, oysters, lobsters, crabs, shrimp... A rather large proportion of the world must be sinful, then, especially those people who rely on shellfish for survival.

A claim that bats are birds. It also puts a ban on eating several types of birds. As these types aren't usually eaten anyway, I'll let it slide. Weird- it also shows 'flying, creeping things with four feet' to be abominations. Birds have 2 feet, insects have 6, and arachnids have 8. Any idea of what God's talking about?

Ouch, apparently women are 'unclean' after childbirth- doubly so after giving birth to a boy. This goes with an animal sacrifice, and a call for circumcision- hardly a common Christian practice, as I understand it.

Some bad medical advice... Saying that bald guys are clean (good to know!)... More bad medical advice... Some messy descriptions and advice regarding sexually transmitted diseases... What to do in the event of noturnal emission... God's law for menstruating women... It seems it's unclean to have sex with a woman during menstruation, on pain of exile.

More sacrifices... "Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother or father" (paraphrased). Wasn't planning to. Basically, a layout of what is and isn't incest.

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." A tad vague- does this apply to women lying with men, or even women lying with women? No mention of blood, by the way.

Keep the Sabbath (how many Christians do that?)... No eating sacrifices on the third day...

Ohh, good advice on hospitality- leave grapes on the vine for passers-by. I like that, as well as the thing against lying and stealing (even if the latter was mentioned before). "Love thy neighbor as thyself" -I like it! Alright, this is the good part of Leviticus.

Woops, back to weirdness- no allowing cows to interbreed, sowing your fields with mixed seed (which, if that means no planting 2 types of crop on the field, is rather bad advice for agricultural reasons), and no mixing cloth (good-bye polyester!).

If a man has sex with a slave, she should be scourged and put to death. And the man...?

No tattoos (darn!), some good advice regarding the treatment of others, and stone anyone who gives their seed to Molech (whoever that is).

People to stone or burn to death: Children that curse their parents, both parties to adultery, homosexual men (no comment on women), and incestors. I really don't consider any of these to be capital offenses.

Ouch- no handicapped people may approach God. That's rather rude. No unclean man or slave can eat of the holy 'thing', and priests can own slaves.

Ouch, people who work on the Sabbath are to be destroyed by God, while blasphemers should be stoned to death. Didn't that go out of fashion a few centuries ago? Same punishment for people who curse- there goes most of the human race. Followed by the condoning of slavery, of course, along with a monetary estimate of the worth of various humans in silver coins. Women, of course, are worth much less.

So, apparently, shellfish and pigs are unclean to eat, hares are cud-chewers, slavery is fine and dandy, menstruating women are unclean to touch or have sex with, and animal sacrifice is well-liked by God; all of this goes along with homosexuality being unclean.

Quote one, quote 'em all.

Welcome Back Commando!!

:rolleyes:

Am I the only one who recognizes the psychotic Uber-Fundamentalism?

I swear Commando would make Marguerite "God Warrior" Perrin seem mainstream.

Then again I could just be a darksider.

:D

here it is
http://www.bibleplus.org/discoveries/sodomfound.htm

I'd like too know as well, but does anyone know their Aramaic well enough to answer your request....

there is 1 guy here, I think - I forget his name though...:headbang:

I don't think 'as' is a relevant problem :) Translators don't translate each word, they translate meanings; only the translation of _this_ translation (the 'what does he mean by 'as'?' -bit) would be dodgy, as we've shown!

They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

That has to be one of the worse mistranslations of anything in the history of everything.

King James does not say that.

Leviticus? Oh, this should be fun... According the Leviticus:
...Quote one, quote 'em all.
Uh oh, I saw a huge Leviticus post coming...

Let's take a poll. Who thinks Shakespeare wrote or had a significant part in writing the King James Bible?<Shrug> It's very possible. It would have been a good paying job for a number of poets, and he was alive at the right time.

Did you know that 144 different editions of the English bible were published between 1560 and 1644?

Considering that the earliest copies we have of the OT Scriptures are in Hebrew, not Aramaic, I don't think you need Aramaic at all. If you want to talk to someone who can read Hebrew, speak to Grave'n'Idle, but the fundamentalists here won't like what he has to say. He's stated on the forum more than once, in great detail, rationale for thinking that the Leviticus verse in question is actually an admonition against a man sleeping with a menstruating woman.

O.. pardon my ignorance... I don't kno my history very well.. thanks for the correction

I'd like too know as well, but does anyone know their Aramaic well enough to answer your request....
I hope you trust the source. http://www.gayxjw.org/bible.html

crap sorry bout that,
uh, just go back to page 5 I believe my original post, try it there!


Other stuff what I learned from that website:

It is possible to cure AIDS by use of a blend of the following herbs:

6 1/2 cups Burdock Root - cut (Arctium Lappa)
l6 oz. Sheep's sorrel herb - powdered (Rumex Acetosella)
1 oz. Turkey Rhubarb Root - Powdered (Rheum Palmatum)
4 oz. Slippery Elm Bark - powdered (Ulmus Fulva)

Ouch, apparently women are 'unclean' after childbirth- doubly so after giving birth to a boy.

You got that one backwards. She was unclean for a longer amount of time after a female child than a male.

O.. pardon my ignorance... I don't kno my history very well.. thanks for the correction

No prob! =)

That was my next question - did the original translators know their grammar? Cause those King James guys were WAAAY more interested in poetic flow than strict parts of speech. They've even be known to make up words! The horror!


( :D )

give me a sec and i'll go get my dad's and grandpa's greek to hebrew, greek to latin, hebrew to english dictionary's and see if i can find them and give you the answer.

BTW, the definition that I gave for "as" is the one that most people in the church view it in.

I hope you trust the source. http://www.gayxjw.org/bible.html

Thank you

<Shrug> It's very possible. It would have been a good paying job for a number of poets, and he was alive at the right time.

Did you know that 144 different editions of the English bible were published between 1560 and 1644?
You don't believe the whole "shake" "spear" myth?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Version_of_the_Bible

"Some have claimed that the playwright William Shakespeare was involved in the translation, pointing to Psalms 46 as proof, where, counting 46 words from the beginning, one comes upon the word "shake", and counting 46 words backwards from the end, one comes upon the word "spear". Most scholars dismiss claims of Shakespeare's involvement in translating the King James Version, and in particular reject such purported evidence as this example. Notably, the Geneva Bible and several other earlier translations contained the same coincidence, despite several of them being published before or just shortly after Shakespeare's birth. [1]"

Elgesh']there is 1 guy here, I think - I forget his name though...:headbang:

I don't think 'as' is a relevant problem :) Translators don't translate each word, they translate meanings; only the translation of _this_ translation (the 'what does he mean by 'as'?' -bit) would be dodgy, as we've shown!Ah yes, but as soon as we put poets to work rewriting the Bible, you can be sure strict translated meanings went right out the window. And even careful translators make mistakes. And don't even get me started on tired young monk-scribes making copy-editing errors...

Other stuff what I learned from that website:

It is possible to cure AIDS by use of a blend of the following herbs:

6 1/2 cups Burdock Root - cut (Arctium Lappa)
l6 oz. Sheep's sorrel herb - powdered (Rumex Acetosella)
1 oz. Turkey Rhubarb Root - Powdered (Rheum Palmatum)
4 oz. Slippery Elm Bark - powdered (Ulmus Fulva)
In some places in Africa, men believe having sex with a virgin will cure their AIDS. This is a far better alternative.:(

You don't believe the whole "shake" "spear" myth?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Version_of_the_Bible

"Some have claimed that the playwright William Shakespeare was involved in the translation, pointing to Psalms 46 as proof, where, counting 46 words from the beginning, one comes upon the word "shake", and counting 46 words backwards from the end, one comes upon the word "spear". Most scholars dismiss claims of Shakespeare's involvement in translating the King James Version, and in particular reject such purported evidence as this example. Notably, the Geneva Bible and several other earlier translations contained the same coincidence, despite several of them being published before or just shortly after Shakespeare's birth. [1]"Hell no, I don't go with that particular fable. I only said that he was alive at the right time, and that it would have been a good paying job for a poet. What we do know is that many poets produced the King James version - it was not the work of a single man.

That would be cool if it was true though.

Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

Do I need say more. Here are 11 reasons same sex marriage is wrong.

1. The legalization of homosexual marriage will quickly destroy the traditional family.

2. Children will suffer most.

3. Public schools in every state will embrace homosexuality.

4. Adoption laws will be instantly obsolete.

5. Foster-care programs will be impacted dramatically.

6. The health care system will stagger and perhaps collapse.

7. Social Security will be severely stressed.

8. Religious freedom will almost certainly be jeopardized.

9. Other nations are watching our march toward homosexual marriage and will follow our lead.

10. The gospel of Jesus Christ will be severely curtailed.

11. The culture war will be over, and the world may soon become “as it was in the days of Noah” (Matthew 24:37).

NEVER GO AGAINST THE BIBLE


Thank you super-happy-fundmentalist fuckhead and following your fucking book to the end of the earth you fucking fuckhead... your ruining the country and the Bible is a work a fiction written 1,000 fucking years ago by diffrent people with diffrent viewpoints and they try to incorpeate Jesus into it.

Finally... Some of those AREN'T EVEN FUCKING BIBLE VERSES. STOP MAKING SHIT UP...

Fucking fundy.

give me a sec and i'll go get my dad's and grandpa's greek to hebrew, greek to latin, hebrew to english dictionary's and see if i can find them and give you the answer.

BTW, the definition that I gave for "as" is the one that most people in the church view it in.Their opinion is unimportant - they believe the interpretation they've been told, for the most part. Few church goers go out of their way to interpret the bible for themselves. It causes too many questions, and when they go unsatisfactorily answered, frequently result in said questioner leaving the church.

give me a sec and i'll go get my dad's and grandpa's greek to hebrew, greek to latin, hebrew to english dictionary's and see if i can find them and give you the answer.

BTW, the definition that I gave for "as" is the one that most people in the church view it in.Does he have an ancient Hebrew to modern Hebrew dictionary? That might be important.

Wierd fundamentalist guy seems to have gone. This isn't fun anymore.

Wierd fundamentalist guy seems to have gone. This isn't fun anymore.I always get here too late. But then again, I don't usually bother mocking trolls, but tonight I was bored.

The individual that started this thread is a Bible-thumping coward. He/she/it is just like a lot of those other Bible-thumping cowards that I've seen on other forums. They invade the forum and then spew out some Bible-induced diarrhea all over the place, and then run for the hills without being seen or heard from again anywhere in the thread.

The Bible also says something about not wearing garments of mixed fabrics. Does anyone here ever wear poly-cotton blends or socks or underwear with elastic in the bands?

The Bible has not been a reliable source for the best way to run one's own life for a very, very, very long time. Yes, it does have some axioms in it that are good for all, but the Bible as a whole is NOT good for all. Take it with a grain of salt people. Free will is greater than anything ever written BY MAN!

:cool:

The individual that started this thread is a Bible-thumping coward. He/she/it is just like a lot of those other Bible-thumping cowards that I've seen on other forums. They invade the forum and then spew out some Bible-induced diarrhea all over the place, and then run for the hills without being seen or heard from again anywhere in the thread.

The Bible also says something about not wearing garments of mixed fabrics. Does anyone here ever wear poly-cotton blends or socks or underwear with elastic in the bands?

The Bible has not been a reliable source for the best way to run one's own life for a very, very, very long time. Yes, it does have some axioms in it that are good for all, but the Bible as a whole is NOT good for all. Take it with a grain of salt people. Free will is greater than anything ever written BY MAN!

:cool:


A fucking men. 100% agreement there. Yes, most Bible-thumpers are cowards, they preach these lines of hate but yet just sit back on their fat lazy asses and expect that God will doing something. :)

Meh, they just like to regurgitate the same old tired rhetoric (instead of presenting something with a little depth and substance) while avoiding rational discourse and side-stepping rebuttal.

Besides, it has a lot more to do with their own ego and insecurities than it does with any actual desire to "save our souls from sin".

Some pastors cite Genesis 19, a passage that condemns homosexual rape, as proof that God hates all homosexual behavior. Yet they would never quote a verse that condemns heterosexual rape and state that it applies to all heterosexual activity.
Some pastors switch between Bible translations in order to find the version that is most critical of homosexual behavior. When quoting Deuteronomy 23:17 some deviate from their usual usage of the New International Version (NIV). It accurately translates the original Hebrew condemnation of male and female prostitution in the temple (a common Pagan practice). They prefer the King James Version (KJV) which incorrectly translates the passage as condemning female prostitutes and male "sodomites."

The New International Version (NIV) currently translates Leviticus 18:22 as:

"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."

The New Living Translation (NLT) widens the translation to also include lesbians:

"Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin.

Imagine what would happen if the translators decided to be accurate to the original Hebrew and render this verse as:

"Two men must not engage in sexual activity on a woman's bed; it is ritually unclean.

In Biblical times, same-gender sexual interactions could take many forms. Some were:
- Kings of conquered tribes were sometimes anally raped by the invading army as the ultimate symbol of defeat and humiliation. Homosexual rape was also a way of humiliating visitors and strangers. These were acts of power and domination and had nothing in common with consensual sex by gays and lesbians.
- Some religious groups both in and around ancient Israel had male prostitutes in their temples who ritually engaged in same-sex activities. These practices were frequently condemned in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). Temple prostitution is no longer found in most areas of the world.
- It was common within the Roman Empire for male adults to keep boy prostitutes for the purpose of sexual activity. The boys were often slaves. In modern times, this is considered extreme child abuse, a criminal offense.
- It is reasonable to assume that many loving gay and lesbian relationships existed in Biblical times. Rabbi Gershon Caudill wrote: "Like all indigenous peoples, the Jews were not overly concerned about male homosexuality, where two men lived together in a monogamous, sexual relationship. As a rule, it did not get any notice....The Talmud does not record a single instance of a person being brought before the Sanhedrin on the charge of homosexual activity." 6 It was only a millennium after the Torah was written that the Talmud makes its first reference to homosexuality as a perversion. This occurred during the time when the Hebrews were being influenced by Greek culture -- one which accepted homosexual behavior.

Only the last type would have any similarity to today's gay and lesbian consensual, committed, loving relationships.

There were other differences between the culture of the ancient Israelites and modern day society:
-There was a general belief that life on earth was all that there was. A person who led a good life would be rewarded by God with a long life and many children. A person could live on after death only through their children.
-Having no belief in an afterlife, men were put under tremendous pressure to marry and procreate. An example of this is seen in Genesis 38, where a widow was expected to have at least one child fathered by her former husband's brother in order to continue her husband's line. Thus both adult bachelorhood and being in a loving same-sex relationship would not have been the preferred situation.

Amazing that so many christians believe in an afterlife AND think the old testament had ANYTHING involving such. The people who wrote the bible (Hebrews, aka, Jewish) knew it wasn't there. How do christians quote a text that, in it's original form, contradicts so many of their adamantly held beliefs?

so name one counrty or society that has successful anarchy?

Russia up until the first coronation of the first Tzar.

Some pastors cite Genesis 19, a passage that condemns homosexual rape, as proof that God hates all homosexual behavior. Yet they would never quote a verse that condemns heterosexual rape and state that it applies to all heterosexual activity.
Some pastors switch between Bible translations in order to find the version that is most critical of homosexual behavior. When quoting Deuteronomy 23:17 some deviate from their usual usage of the New International Version (NIV). It accurately translates the original Hebrew condemnation of male and female prostitution in the temple (a common Pagan practice). They prefer the King James Version (KJV) which incorrectly translates the passage as condemning female prostitutes and male "sodomites."

The New International Version (NIV) currently translates Leviticus 18:22 as:

"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."

The New Living Translation (NLT) widens the translation to also include lesbians:

"Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin.

Imagine what would happen if the translators decided to be accurate to the original Hebrew and render this verse as:

"Two men must not engage in sexual activity on a woman's bed; it is ritually unclean.

In Biblical times, same-gender sexual interactions could take many forms. Some were:
- Kings of conquered tribes were sometimes anally raped by the invading army as the ultimate symbol of defeat and humiliation. Homosexual rape was also a way of humiliating visitors and strangers. These were acts of power and domination and had nothing in common with consensual sex by gays and lesbians.
- Some religious groups both in and around ancient Israel had male prostitutes in their temples who ritually engaged in same-sex activities. These practices were frequently condemned in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). Temple prostitution is no longer found in most areas of the world.
- It was common within the Roman Empire for male adults to keep boy prostitutes for the purpose of sexual activity. The boys were often slaves. In modern times, this is considered extreme child abuse, a criminal offense.
- It is reasonable to assume that many loving gay and lesbian relationships existed in Biblical times. Rabbi Gershon Caudill wrote: "Like all indigenous peoples, the Jews were not overly concerned about male homosexuality, where two men lived together in a monogamous, sexual relationship. As a rule, it did not get any notice....The Talmud does not record a single instance of a person being brought before the Sanhedrin on the charge of homosexual activity." 6 It was only a millennium after the Torah was written that the Talmud makes its first reference to homosexuality as a perversion. This occurred during the time when the Hebrews were being influenced by Greek culture -- one which accepted homosexual behavior.

Only the last type would have any similarity to today's gay and lesbian consensual, committed, loving relationships.

There were other differences between the culture of the ancient Israelites and modern day society:
-There was a general belief that life on earth was all that there was. A person who led a good life would be rewarded by God with a long life and many children. A person could live on after death only through their children.
-Having no belief in an afterlife, men were put under tremendous pressure to marry and procreate. An example of this is seen in Genesis 38, where a widow was expected to have at least one child fathered by her former husband's brother in order to continue her husband's line. Thus both adult bachelorhood and being in a loving same-sex relationship would not have been the preferred situation.

Amazing that so many christians believe in an afterlife AND think the old testament had ANYTHING involving such. The people who wrote the bible (Hebrews, aka, Jewish) knew it wasn't there. How do christians quote a text that, in it's original form, contradicts so many of their adamantly held beliefs?

This is what I have been trying to say all along.. thank you VERY much! =D

Oh yeah, the Soviet Union did GREAT until it imploded, what with its goddless, moral-less society.
Aw, how cute...

Shove it in your chocolate starfish.

I honestly don't see what the soviet union has to do with anything... 40% of the netherlands does not beleive in any kind of religion and it's doing better economy wise than the United States.

explain that

or does god only strike when a majority of a population becomes unruly?

come on face it fundimentalists.... us fags... we control the media.. it's true... you know that 4,000,000 copy selling song by madonna called Vogue??

WE MADE THAT UP!

We made the brady bunch re-make movies funny. *points at Ru-Paul*

WE EVEN HAD ABRAHAM LINCOLN!!!!!

If you don't beleive me on him being gay- just read a biography of `em

I think you fundimentalists are just jealous.

While I agree with you that it's wrong, some of these reasons don't seem to be logical. These are just a few.


You guys seem to think they want to get married in your churches, they don't all they want is the right to be recognized legally, as in by the government, that they are a couple in the same relationship as a husband and wife. Which they are and since there is seperation of church and state there is no reason they shouldn't be recognized this way.

As for the list of utter bs in the first post, many countries have legalized same sex marriages and none of those things have happened. Why? Because they are all made up by religous leaders to make the little lambs follow along. Ever notice how in the bible the followers are reffered to as sheep many times... thats pretty much an insult if your called a sheep by anyone else. God was great with the underhanded zingers wasn't he? To call someone a sheep is to say they are following something mindlessly.

Anyone who takes the bibble for truth needs a reality check, religious leaders way back when used religion to rule the people. Since they were the only ones who could read the bible they would translate it as they saw fit or even add things that were never there in the first place to shape society as they wanted it to be.

Hey I'm a Catholic and I am agaisnt same sex marriage. And homosexuals arent teh evil, as some of you believe every Christians think. It is homosexuals who participate in gay sex that are teh evil. So... dont playa hate.

Hey I'm a Catholic and I am agaisnt same sex marriage. And homosexuals arent teh evil, as some of you believe every Christians think. It is homosexuals who participate in gay sex that are teh evil. So... dont playa hate.
I'm sure that out there somewhere is a dimension where this post makes absolute, perfect sense.

:cool:

Hey I'm a Catholic and I am agaisnt same sex marriage. And homosexuals arent teh evil, as some of you believe every Christians think. It is homosexuals who participate in gay sex that are teh evil. So... dont playa hate.

So then may I assume that you have never and will never have any form of sexual contact without the explicit goal of producing a child or strengthening your marriage? You will never use any form of birth control? If this is the case, then bravo, you're practicing as you preach. After all, the Catholic Church's condemnation of homosexual sex also extends to heterosexual sex of a non-procreative nature. If that's not the case, then one must include him- or herself in the category of *ahem* "teh evil."

Ahh, but you see, the Pope also called for Communism to collapse as well.

The pope can say anything he wants. It doesn't neccessarily mean it will come true.

I can say whatever I want to. For example. You will die. Humans will develop new weapons. More blood will be spiled in wars 50,000 USD says that that all of these statement will come true eventually. It doesn't mean I had anything to do with it.

Anyone who paid attention to how America and the Soviet Union were competing against each other would have seen that eventually, one of them would have collapsed. It was a race of endurance in economics and political wang measuring that had very real effects on the economies of both nations.

If you want to be ridiculous about it, in regards to communism, Cuba is still very much there and doing well enough despite being in the sights of American ire for a long time now.


I guess repressing religious people from expressing thier religion didnt do much either. Communism was the biggest enemy to religion. With out religion, and morals, a government can do what it wants with whomever it pleases.

You mean like corporate America and eminent domain? Or, in regards to religion, like the so-called moral Crusades? The pious Spanish Inquisition? The virtuous Salem Witch Trials?

The biggest enemy to mankind, is religious claptrap which fundies use to enforce their views over other people.

I am a Christian. I am a fundementalist Christian. I do not believe that allowing gays to marry is right. Should it be legal?

Let's see:

What are the reasons for illegalising it?
Even as a Christian, I fail to see the logic in most of the reasons the topic starter provided us with. I think we can all agree on the fact that it is based on Christianity. Although I would love for this country to be a Christian nation, it is not. Therefore, I see no constitutional reason why gay marriage should be made illegal.

Will I be happy if it is made legal?
No.
Do I think it should be made legal?
No.
Do I think that our constitution prohibits it?
No.

A true Christian does not hate the sinner. They despise sin. If a gay person wants to talk to me I have no more problem talking to them and joking with them than I do with someone who lets a curse word slip out of their mouth from time to time or someone who lies occasionally (Even I, a Christian, fall under both categories). However, if one of them try to include me in their sin or encourage me to sin, that is a problem.

Christians should not hate anyone.

^
My views in a nutshell. Commend me or condemn me but either way, thanks for listening.

Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

Do I need say more. Here are 11 reasons same sex marriage is wrong.

1. The legalization of homosexual marriage will quickly destroy the traditional family.

2. Children will suffer most.

3. Public schools in every state will embrace homosexuality.

4. Adoption laws will be instantly obsolete.

5. Foster-care programs will be impacted dramatically.

6. The health care system will stagger and perhaps collapse.

7. Social Security will be severely stressed.

8. Religious freedom will almost certainly be jeopardized.

9. Other nations are watching our march toward homosexual marriage and will follow our lead.

10. The gospel of Jesus Christ will be severely curtailed.

11. The culture war will be over, and the world may soon become “as it was in the days of Noah” (Matthew 24:37).

NEVER GO AGAINST THE BIBLE

"Judge not lest ye be judged"-Jesus, sermon on the Mount.

Need I say more?

But if I must...

1.Being as how "traditional"(how do you define "traditional", might I ask, being as how some "traditions" allow marriage of many wives and such) marriage will still be allowed, your point is moot.

2. Oh, the infamous "WON'T SOMEONE THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN?!" statement. Proof points otherwise, in terms of adoption and child rearing that is. Children aren't horrendously scarred for life if their parents are homosexual(Proven by the fact that many homosexuals have children and have raised them as perfectly normal, productive, and yes, sometimes *christian* members of society). So, this point is moot in that it completely ignores reality.

3. And they shouldn't? Contrary to popular belief, homosexuals are people. Don't know if you got the memo, though.

4. Uh... no. Parents will still need to be deemed as "fit" in order to adopt... so your point, again, is obsolete.

5. In the way that there will be fewer children in an already over-burdened system, whom go to loving homes of people who wish to raise a child. Where's the bad?

6. No... being as how the health care system is largely privatized, I don't see how this will happen.

7. It already is, thanks in no small part to the administration. Social Security will be dead if there is no reform. However, remember, homosexuals pay for social security as well. You may have forgotten this, or may not have known that those "damn homosexual animals" work, but it is true.

8. Wow. Just wow. How big is your ass if you can pull all this shit out of it.

9. Other nations already allow homosexual marriage. Infact, the only ones that don't are backwards theocracies or third-worlds.

10. Uh... see 8. I have no clue what the hell you are talking about.

11. And you don't think bigotry, hatred, and blatantly ignoring the word of god has anything to do with it?

You know, for someone who is christian, you fail to remember that you, infact, are a sinner, and that all men are sinners alike. You ignore the very words of what you call your "Lord", that being "Judge not lest ye be judged". You speak as though you are God-you are just as those who speak against god. No man is holy. You are not holy. At least, according to the "Bible" you are not. Remember this.

I am a Christian. I am a fundementalist Christian. I do not believe that allowing gays to marry is right. Should it be legal?

Let's see:

What are the reasons for illegalising it?
Even as a Christian, I fail to see the logic in most of the reasons the topic starter provided us with. I think we can all agree on the fact that it is based on Christianity. Although I would love for this country to be a Christian nation, it is not. Therefore, I see no constitutional reason why gay marriage should be made illegal.

Will I be happy if it is made legal?
No.
Do I think it should be made legal?
No.
Do I think that our constitution prohibits it?
No.

A true Christian does not hate the sinner. They despise sin. If a gay person wants to talk to me I have no more problem talking to them and joking with them than I do with someone who lets a curse word slip out of their mouth from time to time or someone who lies occasionally (Even I, a Christian, fall under both categories). However, if one of them try to include me in their sin or encourage me to sin, that is a problem.

Christians should not hate anyone.

^
My views in a nutshell. Commend me or condemn me but either way, thanks for listening.

You know, if most "fundamentalists"(I use the word loosely, most who call them such are really far from it) were like you, the world would be a much better place. In people's search to hate the sinner, they tend to forget that they themselves have sinned. They tend to forget that one doesn't go to hell(according to Christianity) by filling a "sin quota" so to speak, for even one sin makes you fall short of all the glory of heaven. Truly is sad how holy some people hold *themselves*.

Your views on gay marriage, as far as I inferred, are also something I can truly respect. From what I gathered, you believe it shouldn't legal, however ultimately there is nothing that should prohibit it? Is that what you were getting at?

Also, it is truly sad what most people's perceptions of homosexuals is. Most people believe that homosexuals just go on raping-sprees, trying to have sex with everybody of the same gender as possible. This is, of course, not the case at all. Much of homophobia is based purely and utterly in complete bigotry.

According to the Constitution, all people are entitled to life, liberty, and property, except in such circumstances as due process of law, equally applied to all citizens, denies them of those rights. Marriage is, per Supreme Court ruling, a fundamental liberty entitled to the people. As such, all people are entitled to marry, except in such circumstances as due process of law, equally applied to all citizens, denies them of those rights. There has been no due process in denying homosexuals the right to marry, and the law certainly hasn't been equally applied. I don't see why the logical conclusion is so hard to reach.

Isn't it odd that we haven't heard back from the OP? Did he think we'd all just accept his word without evidence, or did he deliberately stir up a shitstorm, then sit back to enjoy the bloodbath?

Isn't it odd that we haven't heard back from the OP? Did he think we'd all just accept his word without evidence, or did he deliberately stir up a shitstorm, then sit back to enjoy the bloodbath?

Looking back, it was "Loyal Christians", whom if you've been paying attention to his past record, has been trolling. He probably made this to be a troll, like usual.

Hey I'm a Catholic and I am agaisnt same sex marriage. And homosexuals arent teh evil, as some of you believe every Christians think. It is homosexuals who participate in gay sex that are teh evil. So... dont playa hate.
So you think everyone in the world should be ruled by a book that contradicts it self on almost every page? Im all for freedom of religion that doesn't mean we should all be ruled by yours, which is what happens if same sex marriages are illegal, there is suppsed to be seperation of church and state, why should it be different with same sex marriages. There is no reason for it to be illegal except for religous beliefs. This is why i can't stanf most Christians and catholics they think everyone shouyld abide by their beliefs. Remember we are talking about legality not morality, morality is very subjective. What one person thinks is immoral can be radically different from another person.

NEVER GO AGAINST THE BIBLEYou should read THIS (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=416023) bible. Tell me you're against it or not.

Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

So you follow all of Leviticus?

(Not to mention that your passage doesn't mean what you think.)

Do I need say more. Here are 11 reasons same sex marriage is wrong.

[QUOTE=The Loyal Christians]1. The legalization of homosexual marriage will quickly destroy the traditional family.

How? Why? What "traditional family"?

2. Children will suffer most.

How? Why?

3. Public schools in every state will embrace homosexuality.

That would be nice.

4. Adoption laws will be instantly obsolete.

No. That does not follow.

5. Foster-care programs will be impacted dramatically.

Yes. There will be many more families able to adopt and less kids will be forced to live in foster care.

6. The health care system will stagger and perhaps collapse.

How? Why?

7. Social Security will be severely stressed.

How? Why?

8. Religious freedom will almost certainly be jeopardized.

Bullshit. Religious freedom will be enhanced.

9. Other nations are watching our march toward homosexual marriage and will follow our lead.

Other nations are actually leading the way. The more that join the better.

10. The gospel of Jesus Christ will be severely curtailed.

How? Why? Is this a bad thing?

11. The culture war will be over, and the world may soon become “as it was in the days of Noah” (Matthew 24:37).

NEVER GO AGAINST THE BIBLE

The culture of war is a good thing and must not stop?

That's strange, because in the countries that have legalised same sex marriage\partnerships none of that has happened....take for example the UK, or the Netherlands.........................


you forgot one word... "yet"
take a look at Soddom and Gomorah.

Um. You don't know that story well do you. It had fuck all to do with same-sex marriage.

Here are 11 reasons hetrophile marriage is wrong.

1. The legalization of hetrophile marriage will quickly destroy the traditional family.

2. Children will suffer most.

3. Public schools in every state will embrace hetrophiliality.

4. Adoption laws will be instantly obsolete.

5. Foster-care programs will be impacted dramatically.

6. The health care system will stagger and perhaps collapse.

7. Social Security will be severely stressed.

8. Religious freedom will almost certainly be jeopardized.

9. Other nations are watching our march toward hetrophile marriage and will follow our lead.

10. The gospel of Jesus Christ will be severely curtailed.

11. The culture war will be over, and the world may soon become “as it was in the days of Noah” (Matthew 24:37).

NEVER GO AGAINST THE BABLE

why are you afraid of religion?

why are you afraid of a free society? Of the Constitution?

Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

Do I need say more. Here are 11 reasons same sex marriage is wrong.

1. The legalization of homosexual marriage will quickly destroy the traditional family.

2. Children will suffer most.

3. Public schools in every state will embrace homosexuality.

4. Adoption laws will be instantly obsolete.

5. Foster-care programs will be impacted dramatically.

6. The health care system will stagger and perhaps collapse.

7. Social Security will be severely stressed.

8. Religious freedom will almost certainly be jeopardized.

9. Other nations are watching our march toward homosexual marriage and will follow our lead.

10. The gospel of Jesus Christ will be severely curtailed.

11. The culture war will be over, and the world may soon become “as it was in the days of Noah” (Matthew 24:37).

NEVER GO AGAINST THE BIBLE

That's odd. I thought you were christian, not jewish. :p

How? Why? What "traditional family"?


In my family, the traditions mainly involve deep bitterness, intense spite, and long periods of cold, festering resentment, punctuated by divorce and remarriage.

But all the marriages in my family are heterosexual, so evidently we're ok.

I am just curious as to the fact that in the Islamic, and the Judeo-Christian religions, they are strictly against homosexuality. Thousands of years ago, they were against it, and you have to wonder why? What caused them to be against it? I dont think some guy was just sitting there chipping into a rock 3000 years ago and just magically came up with the idea.



oddly people will say various things, the truth is that these were prohibitions against a common semitic pagan practice of temple prostitution. Unlike street walkers, Temple prostitutes were required to be the same sex as the gods they represented in fertility rites. thus if a man went in to commune with Ba'al Qadosh he had to have sex with atemple prostitute meaning...yup man lying with man.


and ever notice how few Christians nowadays actually obey JESUS himself, I mean it seems like they skip over the gospels and the first half of acts.

Has the Loyal Christians ever posted anything that wasn't the first post in his/her own thread?

Hello? The Victorian era called, they want their superstitions, dogma and bigotry back.

Hello? The Victorian era called, they want their superstitions, dogma and bigotry back.

Not mention the homophobia, disease, and body-lice.

Wich I think sums up the first post nicely.

Social Security is in the Bible?
WHAT THE HELL NERD I CAN BELIEVE YOU GUYS ARE TAKING THIS SERIOULY!!
iTS A DAMN GAME!!!!!!!!! AS FAR IM CONCERNED YOU CAN BE GAY AND DIE IN HELL!!!

I know this is 13 pages into the thread, but I have to bite:
1. The legalization of homosexual marriage will quickly destroy the traditional family.Why? Do you think that once legalized everybody's repressed homosexuality will be repressed and they'll all break up with their opposite sex partners and all marry same sex partners? Even if they do, and it's a sin, isn't it a victimless sin (i.e. it only affects the participants), and therefore can be judged by God?

2. Children will suffer most. Why? Because they'll stop being born?

3. Public schools in every state will embrace homosexuality. And they'll start having homosexual orgies on their curriculum?

4. Adoption laws will be instantly obsolete. So? Emancipation made many laws obsolete.

5. Foster-care programs will be impacted dramatically. The implication being that homosexual couples will warp children's minds? Do we have evidence for this?

6. The health care system will stagger and perhaps collapse. Because of artificial insemination? I don't see why that should be paid for by the health care system anyway.

7. Social Security will be severely stressed. In Australia at least it'll save money, families are taxed unfairly compared to two individuals living together.

8. Religious freedom will almost certainly be jeopardized.Why?

9. Other nations are watching our march toward homosexual marriage and will follow our lead. Other countries are already going there.

10. The gospel of Jesus Christ will be severely curtailed. People should be able to judge for themeselves. If you're homosexual you're already a sinner.

11. The culture war will be over, and the world may soon become “as it was in the days of Noah” (Matthew 24:37).When God was just unhappy with everyone for being people and decided to kill everyone?

I knew that if I waited long enough The Cat-Tribe would say everything that I wanted to only better.

The Loyal Christians' arguments for preventing homosexual marrige made no sense to me. They merely smacked of fear based entirely on narrow-minded, antiquated and otherwise idiotic ideologies.

Christians are so called for their belief in the teachings of Christ, right? If I remember correctly, he encouraged tolerance not hypocrisy and bias. Don't give your faith a bad rep by equating it with ignorance. How can you expect people to accept your religion if you advertise that your religion does not accept others? You can't. Instead, you only succeed in turning people away with your fanatical bashing.

I think again there is a difference between christians ans catholics ;)

I think again there is a difference between christians ans catholics ;)

Some of the most bigoted people I know (members of my own family included) are Protestant. Likewise I know a lot of very nice Catholics. You can't generalise or differentiate. I think, really, homophobes would be homophobes whatever religion they belonged to, just the religious ones are all the more contemptible because they try to use their religion to back it up rather than just admitting to their own narrow-mindedness, and thus give the decent members of their religion a bad name as well.

1. The legalization of homosexual marriage will quickly destroy the traditional family.


I don't see how. Please explain. Besides, what "traditional family" are you talking about? The Western "nuclear family"? It's not the norm everywhere. In some places (the Cook Islands, for example), family structures are still "traditional", but not in the sense that you mean.


2. Children will suffer most.


How so?


3. Public schools in every state will embrace homosexuality.


What's that supposed to mean? Please clarify.


4. Adoption laws will be instantly obsolete.


How so?


5. Foster-care programs will be impacted dramatically.


How so?


6. The health care system will stagger and perhaps collapse.


Scare-mongering.


7. Social Security will be severely stressed.


Scare-mongering.


8. Religious freedom will almost certainly be jeopardized.


Oh? How on earth do you figure that?


9. Other nations are watching our march toward homosexual marriage and will follow our lead.


I didn't check what country you're from, but it's too late for you to establish a lead: it's already been done, by the Netherlands, followed by Spain and Belgium.

Besides, that's a good thing.


10. The gospel of Jesus Christ will be severely curtailed.


Why should I care? :p


11. The culture war will be over, and the world may soon become “as it was in the days of Noah” (Matthew 24:37).


"Culture war"?

AS FAR IM CONCERNED YOU CAN BE GAY AND DIE IN HELL!!!

Die in Hell? How does one do that, exactly? :D

[QUOTE=The Riemann Hypothesis]
I have no idea why health care or social security would be impacted.



Health care and social security are impacted because of spouse benefits which whould logically apply to any legal marriage. One of the practical problems is that it opens the door to using marriage as a way to get benefits rather than a way to raise a family. Sure some male/female couples take advantage of this without raising a family, but the problem would get worse.

Amazing that so many christians believe in an afterlife AND think the old testament had ANYTHING involving such. The people who wrote the bible (Hebrews, aka, Jewish) knew it wasn't there. How do christians quote a text that, in it's original form, contradicts so many of their adamantly held beliefs?
Precisely. As I have stated before, I am agnostic/christian (ask me if you don't get it). The New Testament renders the Old Testament obsolete in Christian faith. The Old Testament is much more of a history book, if anything. Jesus created an entirely new faith in God, one based on mutual respect and tolerance. The Old Testament is a typical authoritarian religion, that is grossly at odds with Jesus' teachings. Fundamentalist Christians like the Old Testament though because it makes a useful social policy tool, and so conveniently, have not sidetracked it. There is a reason its called Old. Hmm, I wonder what that is... :rolleyes:

.

So do explain, if Jesus saw all men and women as equal and told them to respect one another, why should we read the Bible in any other way?

Get a clue. :)


Jesus doesn't see us as equal, he will sort us Goats and Sheep. Even amoung the people going to heaven there are levels. Jesus/God loves us all, but hates the sinful actions we choose. The sexual sins have the strongest language, which may lead one to believe they are the worse sins. That includes divorce, premarital sex, thinking about another mans wife, etc... None of us measure up, we all fall short. Homosexuality is the same. Christians shouldn't encourage people in any of these sins, but should love the people just the same.

I have no idea why health care or social security would be impacted.

Health care and social security are impacted because of spouse benefits which whould logically apply to any legal marriage. One of the practical problems is that it opens the door to using marriage as a way to get benefits rather than a way to raise a family. Sure some male/female couples take advantage of this without raising a family, but the problem would get worse.
If gay people actually exceeded 10% of the population, I'd agree. They don't. Beyond that, how many of that 10% will actually be so manipulative so as to marry for benefits?

It would also do a lot to destroy the typical view that gay relationships are unstable, were they to be allowed to engage in civil union. The Church cannot sustain both arguments at once, ie that homosexuals are unstable in their relationships, yet letting them marry, ie become stabler, would be wrong.

Jesus doesn't see us as equal, he will sort us Goats and Sheep. Even amoung the people going to heaven there are levels. Jesus/God loves us all, but hates the sinful actions we choose. The sexual sins have the strongest language, which may lead one to believe they are the worse sins. That includes divorce, premarital sex, thinking about another mans wife, etc... None of us measure up, we all fall short. Homosexuality is the same. Christians shouldn't encourage people in any of these sins, but should love the people just the same.
Typical Christian response. So then, when did Jesus define what is or isn't a sin? :rolleyes:

you and your kind disgust me. get down off your high horse. i'm not too worried about people like you, though, civil rights will come in time for everyone. i don't know why you can't just tolerate other people, except that your narrow-minded religion preaches hatred towards everyone who isn't just like you.

i hope you know how much of a bigot you are, and how bigoted your religion is. if i could make one thing in this country die, it would be christianity.

Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

Do I need say more. Here are 11 reasons same sex marriage is wrong.

1. The legalization of homosexual marriage will quickly destroy the traditional family.

2. Children will suffer most.

3. Public schools in every state will embrace homosexuality.

4. Adoption laws will be instantly obsolete.

5. Foster-care programs will be impacted dramatically.

6. The health care system will stagger and perhaps collapse.

7. Social Security will be severely stressed.

8. Religious freedom will almost certainly be jeopardized.

9. Other nations are watching our march toward homosexual marriage and will follow our lead.

10. The gospel of Jesus Christ will be severely curtailed.

11. The culture war will be over, and the world may soon become “as it was in the days of Noah” (Matthew 24:37).

NEVER GO AGAINST THE BIBLE
Where do your 11 reasons that pooves are evil appear in the bible?

Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

<snip>

Bah! The quote is obviously abvocating the practice doggystyle in homosexual relationships! I imagine (in my limited knowledge of gay sex) it would be quite uncomfortable for both parties involved to try fucking face to face, anatomically speaking. I mean, it's posible but what this passage is obviously saying is that if your going to have gay sex, do it properly!

Bah! The quote is obviously abvocating the practice doggystyle in homosexual relationships! I imagine (in my limited knowledge of gay sex) it would be quite uncomfortable for both parties involved to try fucking face to face, anatomically speaking. I mean, it's posible but what this passage is obviously saying is that if your going to have gay sex, do it properly!
Amen :D :p

Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them." If you follow that guy, then you're not a Christian. At most, you're a Jew.

Do I need say more. Here are 11 reasons same sex marriage is wrong.

1. The legalization of homosexual marriage will quickly destroy the traditional family. Heterosexuals have a higher divirce rate, higher re-marry rate, and heterosexuals statistically leave their family to rot more often than homosexuals. You are at odds with reality, but I doubt there's anything new in that.

2. Children will suffer most. Yups. T3h Ev1l Ghays eat our babies. If you're gonna make wild accusations, you better explain what you mean.

3. Public schools in every state will embrace homosexuality.Again, you should explain what you mean & why. I have no idea what this is supposed to mean, but it doesn't sound like a bad thing.

4. Adoption laws will be instantly obsolete. AFAIK, no country recognising same-sex marriages granted homosexuals the right to adopt right away. We're working on it though. There's a lot of orphans in the world. Also, you might want to check up on how children raised by same-sex couples do, compared to children of hetero families... But you probably wouldn't believe the facts, even if Jesus himself crammed them down your throat.

5. Foster-care programs will be impacted dramatically. That's highly unlikely, but IF it happens, then there's every reason to believe it will be a very good thing, both for the people directly involved & for taxpayers.

6. The health care system will stagger and perhaps collapse. Eh? How would same-sex marriages make any difference? The homo's exist already.

7. Social Security will be severely stressed. Because...? Homosexuals are generally well-educated & have fairly good incomes. If allowed to marry, they'll be forced to take care of eachother, and that will most likely result in fewer recipients of welfare. So how did you dream up your conclusion?

8. Religious freedom will almost certainly be jeopardized.Yups. Because allowing the Churches & religions to marry the people THEY want to marry is limiting their ability to practice their religions. Riiight... You know, PLENTY of religions & Churches WANT to marry homosexuals. Right now, they can't, and that is LIMITING their religious freedom.
Freedom of religion is not your right to round up & shoot everyone who holds beliefs different from your own.

9. Other nations are watching our march toward homosexual marriage and will follow our lead. I'm assuming you're USian. Other nations are carrying the torch now. America has always been slow to recognise equal rights, but hopefully you'll follow, now that we've shown the way.

10. The gospel of Jesus Christ will be severely curtailed. That guy never said a single word about homosexuals or homosexual sex or marriage. You are the one curtailing his gospel.

11. The culture war will be over, and the world may soon become “as it was in the days of Noah” (Matthew 24:37).That would be global warming. Take it up with the capitalist elite, they're the ones in a position to do something about it.

NEVER GO AGAINST THE BIBLEHere's my 11 reasons to outlaw Christianity.

1. Christians are evil.

2. Christians are unable to follow the 10 commandments.

3. Christians revere Jesus' name only.

4. Christians have turned not following Jesus' gospel into an artform.

5. Christians are a burden on the education system.

6. In the US, child molesters are more likely to be Christians.

7. Christians are undermining democracy.

8. Christians are biogots.

9. Christians live in a dream world.

10. Christians worthship a false prophet.

11. Make something up, 'cos I won't admit that these 11 points are simply a poor excuse for me being uncomfortable with Christians. After all, they're icky as hell.

The Loyal Christians congratulations on being the worst poster I've seen on here. Are their any limits to your stupidity?

Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

Do I need say more. Here are 11 reasons same sex marriage is wrong.

1. The legalization of homosexual marriage will quickly destroy the traditional family.

2. Children will suffer most.

3. Public schools in every state will embrace homosexuality.

4. Adoption laws will be instantly obsolete.

5. Foster-care programs will be impacted dramatically.

6. The health care system will stagger and perhaps collapse.

7. Social Security will be severely stressed.

8. Religious freedom will almost certainly be jeopardized.

9. Other nations are watching our march toward homosexual marriage and will follow our lead.

10. The gospel of Jesus Christ will be severely curtailed.

11. The culture war will be over, and the world may soon become “as it was in the days of Noah” (Matthew 24:37).

NEVER GO AGAINST THE BIBLE


Why is it that just because you deem it to be wrong, that means it must be made law.

1-The current divorce rate among heterosexual couples is what destroys the traditional home, how many people now have step moms and dads, is that traditional. You have your boys like Rush Limbaugh who seems to make a mockery of marriage on his own, until you have your problems fixed, quit worrying about gays.

2-How will children suffer, by learning to accept people who are different? You are the same brand of right wing Christian nutjob that supported segregation in the 50's and 60's. In 30 years, we are going to look back on this and be embarrased, of course, you'll still be pissed becuase Roe vs Wade was never overturned and you will be disappointed to find out Jesus never intended for you to represent him as a facist.

3. See number 2, public schools will, gasp the thought, be a place of diversity. I mean, first they let the negros in, now the homosexuals, whats next, MUSLIMS!

4-Compared to the adoption laws now. How many abusive children are in adoption homes, or how many of those homes break up. Guess thats better than letting a stable homosexual home become available, personally, I think it is YOU that should not be allowed to adopt children, all your going to do is teach them hate.

5-prove number 5.

6-How will this happen? It's in need of repair as it is, maybe, I dunno, Universal Health Care is due, i works for every other industrialized nation.

7-Social Security will not be impacted at all, that statement just proves how bid of an idiot you are!

8-How does tat jepardize religious freedom? You mean allowing others to practice what you may disagree with is a violation of freedom? You are one jacked up idiot! This is NOT a Christian nation, we a free to practice what we chose, you practice your B.S., Jews can practice Judaism, and gay men can be gay, what freedom does that restrict?

9-Other nations are far more liberal on this than we are, it is us who are falling behind. The only nations that are in agreement with you would be, Iran, Saudia Arabia, Syria, Sudan, name an Islamic extremist nation.

10-We do not have to go by the gospel of Jesus, and he gave many rules to live by, helping the poor, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone", pacifism, ect, quit picking and chosing what you will follow, go back to the drawing board you idiot becuase you will say nothing that I haven't heard, I have much experience in dealing with the Pat Robertsons and Jerry Fallwells.

11-The Bible is not our Constitution.

Right wingers, get a clue, I assure you your battle will be LOST!

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

Do I need say more. Yeah... that doesn't talk about lesbians at all...
Here are 11 reasons same sex marriage is wrong.
Let's see then...
1. The legalization of homosexual marriage will quickly destroy the traditional family.Which one? The one where interracial marriage was forbidden? or where the woman was at the mercy of the man?
2. Children will suffer most. How? And how will they suffer more than they do under abusive heterosexual parents?
3. Public schools in every state will embrace homosexuality. Proves: nothing. Tautological argument. This basically states that homosexuality will be bad because it will be tolerated.
4. Adoption laws will be instantly obsolete.Means?
5. Foster-care programs will be impacted dramatically. Negatively? Positively?
6. The health care system will stagger and perhaps collapse. Just like living under power lines makes you poor...:p
7. Social Security will be severely stressed. See above.
8. Religious freedom will almost certainly be jeopardized.If you feel your religious freedom is jeopardized because some other people get freedoms that do not interfere with your freedoms, then I pity you.
9. Other nations are watching our march toward homosexual marriage and will follow our lead. Tautological arguement again.
10. The gospel of Jesus Christ will be severely curtailed. Really? How that?
11. The culture war will be over, and the world may soon become “as it was in the days of Noah” (Matthew 24:37).Well, good that God promised not to do something like the flood again then.

Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination.


Love Thy Neighbour.



They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."


Thou Shalt Not Kill.


To all anti-homophobe Christians, I say quoting what Jesus said....the truth shall set you free.

Jesus was a revolutionary, a rebel against the system....if you were around when he was, I bet you would be the first to condemn him.

And I bet, he would be appalled at what his message has been twisted into....huge religous systems that became the oppressor opposed to the oppressed, condemning others to gain a sense of superiority.

The sort of thing Jesus is said to have been speaking against.

If gay people actually exceeded 10% of the population, I'd agree. They don't. Beyond that, how many of that 10% will actually be so manipulative so as to marry for benefits?

It would also do a lot to destroy the typical view that gay relationships are unstable, were they to be allowed to engage in civil union. The Church cannot sustain both arguments at once, ie that homosexuals are unstable in their relationships, yet letting them marry, ie become stabler, would be wrong.


Thank you for the reasonable response. I agree it's not a strong argument, I was just explaining the argument to someone who said they didn't see it. To a Christian the cost simply shouldn't matter, on many levels. It's not a Christian argument, but one Christian's use because it might reach people who are money focused. But too expand on it a little further, every new marriage type a culture adds is a burden to a system that should be focused on raising children to be good future citizens. Same sex, poligomy, and others; it just doesn't matter, a healthy culture will be next generation focused, and the same sex life style simply isn't.

Precisely. As I have stated before, I am agnostic/christian (ask me if you don't get it). The New Testament renders the Old Testament obsolete in Christian faith. The Old Testament is much more of a history book, if anything. Jesus created an entirely new faith in God, one based on mutual respect and tolerance. The Old Testament is a typical authoritarian religion, that is grossly at odds with Jesus' teachings. Fundamentalist Christians like the Old Testament though because it makes a useful social policy tool, and so conveniently, have not sidetracked it. There is a reason its called Old. Hmm, I wonder what that is... :rolleyes:


Agnostic/christian, cool, but if you mean God is not a personal, interactive God, then you might want to check out Buddism.

I agree Jesus created a new faith in God, but I don't agree he threw out the Old Testament, he was rather dotting the i's and crossing the t's. The New Testament puts the old law back into focus, it doesn't throw it out. It teaches us what goes into our mouth (food) is not as important as what comes out (words). The words we speak give an example of what is on our 'heart'. In other words the way we think, the way we train our soul to react is more important to Jesus/God than if we eat pork, or how we cut our hair. In most cases Jesus makes 'the law' more strict, for instance Matthew 5:22 "but I say to you that anyone who is angry with a brother will be subjected to judgement. And whoever insults a brother will brought before the council, and whoever says 'fool' will be sent to fiery hell." I think you are literally playing with fire when you claim to be an Agnostic/Christian.

WHAT THE HELL NERD I CAN BELIEVE YOU GUYS ARE TAKING THIS SERIOULY!!
iTS A DAMN GAME!!!!!!!!! AS FAR IM CONCERNED YOU CAN BE GAY AND DIE IN HELL!!!

While someone tries dying in Hell, this is called a M-E-S-S-A-G-E B-O-A-R-D. The actual GAME is at nationstates.net. If we were talking about nationstates in regards to gay marriage, then perhaps your response would be justified, minus the all caps.

And same-sex marriage (or politics in general) is not a game. Just ask George Bush; when he went to Iraq he probably thought it was a game.