NationStates Jolt Archive

I'd have to say cajin.

Latin by far. No other language has been so influential in the development of modern languages (besides maybe original Germanic).

Gaelic certainly isn't dead and is spoken by over 1.7 million people in Ireland and 60,000 in Scotland.

Latin. It was what many of todays languages come from.

What? No Sanskrit?

I don't know what Cajin is but if it's "Cajun", the Latin has to win by default since it's the only dead language in these 3.

Gaelic certainly isn't dead and is spoken by over 1.7 million people in Ireland and 60,000 in Scotland.

But they dont speak English? They only speak gaelic? If so my bad, but I was pretty sure they could speak another language as their primary language.

But they dont speak English? They only speak gaelic? If so my bad, but I was pretty sure they could speak another language as their primary language.
That doesn't invalidate it from being a living language.

But they dont speak English? They only speak gaelic? If so my bad, but I was pretty sure they could speak another language as their primary language.
Obviously the vast majority of these people speak English but the fact that they can and do also speak Gaelic means the language cannot be described as "dead".

Well, I'm learning Latin...so I'd have to say Latin.

What is a good language?

When is it dead?

I think you're refering to the decendant of old french, as spoken in the lousiana area. Its not a dead langauge, nor is gaelic.

I belive ancient aremeic (sp?) is a dead langauge. I think, like latin, its been reserected from written documents, but actual pronciaitions have been lost. I know thats true for at least one dielect of greek as well.

Sanscrit is a dead langauge, and wasn't there a spoken tonuge in egypt which has been lost, where we only know the glyphs now?

Sanskrit- too many people half understand Latin these days, so for real obscure ancientness its has to be Sanskrit.

I'll reply with the same answer I put on the other thread: Proto-Indo-European. Over half the people in the world speak some descendant of this language.

:p

At its loosest definition, a dead langaue is one thats no longer spoken as a native langauge by any population.

Usually "Dead langauge" referes to one thats gone far enough out of common usuage that how to speak it has become a matter of debate. Look at the rift in latin, between the church and acediemia, in pronunciation guides. In some cases, the langague is truely lost, and there is no one alive who's ever head it spoken, and pronncication becomes guesswork.

I think you're refering to the decendant of old french, as spoken in the lousiana area. Its not a dead langauge, nor is gaelic.

I belive ancient aremeic (sp?) is a dead langauge. I think, like latin, its been reserected from written documents, but actual pronciaitions have been lost. I know thats true for at least one dielect of greek as well.

Sanscrit is a dead langauge, and wasn't there a spoken tonuge in egypt which has been lost, where we only know the glyphs now?
i'd go for aramaic (i think that's the spelling) as it's the only one i can read, though i have no bloody idea what i'm reading, thanks to the reuse of the letters in hebrew

Of that list, unquestionably latin.

In history: Proto-Indo-European.

I'd have to say cajin.

Cajin is still spoken in parts of Louisiana so it is not a "dead language." Galic is still spoken in parts of Ireland, so it is not a "dead language." Latin is the official language of the Roman Catholic Church so it isn't a "dead language."

Bah Weep Granah Weep Ninnybon.

But they dont speak English? They only speak gaelic? If so my bad, but I was pretty sure they could speak another language as their primary language.
How about French? Thanks to the Pope's encyclicals being translated into latin for the Vatican's records, there are more neologisms in Latin than there are in French most years.

How is Latin dead? Priests and monks must learn it, Doctors and lawyers, and educated people (philosophers and theologians). It is not dead, it merely became a special language, for the smart, elite and holy :)

Latin, because it's what I currently dedicate my life to. Well, half my life I guess. But yeah.

How is Latin dead? Priests and monks must learn it, Doctors and lawyers, and educated people (philosophers and theologians). It is not dead, it merely became a special language, for the smart, elite and holy :)

And classicists, jerk. Theologians and philosophers usually tend to learn Greek. Or Hebrew in the case of theologians. Doctors and lawyers are rarely obliged to know it fluently, just to know token phrases which are onl there by tradition anyway. Classicists are by far the best of the lot.

OK, so how do I answer the poll? Cajun is alive, Latin is alive and Gaelic is alive. Is this one of those existential polls where "dead" doesn't really mean dead, but is simply a metaphor for the emptiness inherent in being alive?

If thats the case, I vote for Gaelic. It makes me feel the emptiest (in this moment of existence).

Cajun(Im assuming) and Gaelic still exist and are spoken.

I love latin. I don't know a lot, but I did learn enough to swear at my French teacher. I would really like to learn more.

Cornish!

When did the last known speaker die?

Personally I don't like Latin. I'd have to say that Old Chuch Slavonic is my favorite extinct language.

Latin isn't dead. It's been used from ancient times since about the 17-18th Century. Let's not forget it's the official language of a country (Vatican). So, I guess I would pick that 'c' one.

Whatever summons Demons to do my bidding is fine. (I still picked Latin)

I think you're refering to the decendant of old french, as spoken in the lousiana area. Its not a dead langauge, nor is gaelic.

I belive ancient aremeic (sp?) is a dead langauge. I think, like latin, its been reserected from written documents, but actual pronciaitions have been lost. I know thats true for at least one dielect of greek as well.

Sanscrit is a dead langauge, and wasn't there a spoken tonuge in egypt which has been lost, where we only know the glyphs now?

That would be Aramaic - which is still spoken by up to 400,000 people in the Middle East, though granted the modern western and eastern forms often differ significantly from classical Aramaic. And as I understand it there are only about 15,000 speakers of the Western Aramaic dialects descended from the Western Aramaic spoken by Jesus (easily the most famous speaker of classical Aramaic, I'd imagine).

As far as ancient Egyptian is concerned, it does have a modern descendent in liturgical Coptic, the church language of the Christian Copts of Egypt. But it's purely a liturgical language these days, so would count as 'dead' in that its modern usage is purely ceremonial (likewise Sanskrit) - but it is a direct descendent of ancient Egyptian that can be heard by anyone attending a Coptic Orthodox Church.

Moving on to the languages in the poll...

As others have noted, Gaelic is not a dead language, and has tens of thousands of speakers in Scotland and a larger number of speakers in Ireland (figures for Eire vary depending on whether you count the number of people with knowledge of the language [high] or the number of people using it as their first language [significantly lower]).

Cajun, or Cajun French, has suffered a decline in the 20th century, but it's still hanging on. Yes, most (if not all) speakers of Cajun and Gaelic are bilingual, but there are many people who still speak Cajun and Gaelic as their first language at home, even if they're often forced to speak another language in their dealings with the outside world. In fact, this pattern is also quite common in any number of Asian, African and European nations, where the language spoken at home is not necessarily the official language of the state or government.

Latin is a dead language in that no one - except possibly a few priests and monks residing in the Vatican (where it is an official language) - speaks it as their first language at home. But like Coptic and Sanskrit, it remains important as a liturgical language. And I need hardly add that in the European tradition, it also remains an important language of science.

In any case, deciding when a language that was spoken into the historical period 'died' is always going to be controversial (Cornish, in all four of its 'revived' variants, comes to mind).

In this sort of poll, you're best sticking to really old dead languages, like Sumerian, or - as someone else suggested - Proto-Indo European.

And spare a thought for languages on their last legs, like Livonian - a language spoken in Latvia by no more than 40 people, only 5-10 of whom speak it fluently....

Where the hell is the option for Akkadian?

Ancient Greek? Ancient nordic/germanic? etc etc

I love latin the most though. It is so cold and distant, so stately. It has an icy beauty to it.

I'd have to say cajin.

Umm . . . NEITHER Gaelic nor Cajun is a dead language. Both have living speakers who use it as their primary languages, albeit they are both rare.

I say the best truly dead language was Old English. In sound and cadence it was quite beautiful and its native speakers were like Klingons come to life. Boastful and illed with highly ritualistic notions of honor and the importance of combat.

Atol aéglaéca / him on eaxle wearð
syndolh sweoto /seonowe onsprungon
burston bánlocan / Béowulfe wearð
gúðhréð gyfeþe / scolde Grendel þonan
feorhséoc fléön / under fenhleoðu,
sécean wynléas wíc / wiste þé geornor
þæt his aldres wæs / ende gegongen
dógera dægrím.

[Translated]

The awful ogre / on his shoulder was
a great wound apparent / sinews sprang asunder,
bone-locks burst / to Beowulf was
war-glory given / thence Grendel had to
flee sick with fear / under the hills of the fen,
to seek his joyless abode / he knew it more surely
that was his life's / end arrived,
the end-count of his days.

Um ... Devanagari?

Atol aéglaéca / him on eaxle wearð
syndolh sweoto /seonowe onsprungon
burston bánlocan / Béowulfe wearð
gúðhréð gyfeþe / scolde Grendel þonan
feorhséoc fléön / under fenhleoðu,
sécean wynléas wíc / wiste þé geornor
þæt his aldres wæs / ende gegongen
dógera dægrím.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm... compound words..... *drools*

Old Chinese is pretty influential, although if Cantonese is its most direct modern descendent then it must have sounded really ugly and vulgar.

Well, as a theologian, I have studied Hebrew, and Aramaic, and am currently studying Koine and Classical Greek, and looking forward to Latin and German.

So far, Classical Greek is the best language, I am simply amazed at how precise the language is, and how influential it is on many of our languages. It is truly beautiful.

Tsar Wingert the Great.

Well, as a theologian, I have studied Hebrew, and Aramaic, and am currently studying Koine and Classical Greek, and looking forward to Latin and German.

So far, Classical Greek is the best language, I am simply amazed at how precise the language is, and how influential it is on many of our languages. It is truly beautiful.

Tsar Wingert the Great.

Classical rather than NT? How rare...

How far into it are you? histemi's a bugger when you encounter it, lol. I love Greek, but I reckon all the mens and des would have really pissed me off if I'd been around back then. Lol.

I know some ancient greek, yet I must say I honestly prefer Latin. Greek lacks its fluidity and frigidity in my opinion.

Greek is a godly language. Latin is less elegeant and cool sounding than Greek. Latin pronunciation bugs me, such as pronuncing "veni vidi vici" as "winny widdy wicky".

Greek is a godly language. Latin is less elegeant and cool sounding than Greek. Latin pronunciation bugs me, such as pronuncing "veni vidi vici" as "winny widdy wicky".
A matter of opinion I guess. I love Latin pronounced with a British accent. Its otherworldy, almost inhuman. I am sure its original pronunciation lacked this potency, yet this makes no difference to me if I choose to use a British accent. For me, I find it difficult to express myself in Greek, both ancient and modern, even if I speak it fluently. I am much more eloquent with English, or even French.

Latin is the best. It has given us the most historical information about the Roman Empire and the ancient times. And Latin makes really good song lyrics.

Latin is the best. It has given us the most historical information about the Roman Empire and the ancient times. And Latin makes really good song lyrics.
Indeed, its awesome for chanting. It lends itself to being almost infused with divine power when being chanted. Perhaps that is why the Catholic Church used it so much, aside from the fact that it formed in Rome.

I'd have to say cajin.

Agreed.

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Cajun(Im assuming) and Gaelic still exist and are spoken.

ass u me ing

*lifts up his kilt and moons the forum in general*

Cajun(Im assuming) and Gaelic still exist and are spoken.


ass u me ing

You know what they say... To assume makes an ass out of 'u' and me... :p But let's try to keep this on topic...

cornish isn't dead it is still around slightly to the best of my knoledge I'm sure I heard about it on the news a few years ago

some languages have died and come back

manx for example

i'd say latin was a dead language as was ancient greek in that they are used for specialist formal functions rather then in normal conversation.

Latin, obviously.

Cornish!

When did the last known speaker die?

John Davey of Zennor who died in 1891.

It's been revived several times though.

John Davey of Zennor who died in 1891.

It's been revived several times though.

I thought it was a woman who died in the early 1900s?

Revived? How do they know the correct pronunciation?

I thought it was a woman who died in the early 1900s?

Revived? How do they know the correct pronunciation?

uh, check here: http://www.omniglot.com/writing/cornish

I thought it was a woman who died in the early 1900s?

Revived? How do they know the correct pronunciation?

The woman you're thinking of is probably Dolly Pentreath, who died in 1777. Her last words are said to have been "Me ne vidn cewsel Sawznek!" ("I don't want to speak English!"). She's generally considered to have been the last fluent native speaker of the language, though others stake a claim for John Davey.

As to the revival of Cornish, the link that Tywyllwch provides will give you most of the answers there, but the real problem with the attempt to revive the language is that there are four competing revived versions of the language with significant differences in orthography and (sometimes) vocabulary. And the rivalry between the different groups is often intense. All this for a language with perhaps 4-500 fluent speakers.

Unless the competing groups can sort out their differences, the Cornish revival faces significant logistical problems, not least in attracting UK and EU funding for the language.

"Latin." "Latin." "Latin." "I'm a gonna say latin."

What? No Sanskrit?

Sanskrit ain't dead yet.:D

Priests still speak in sanskrit. There are sanskrit Universities. Certain schools offer sanskrit as an optional language that you can study (apart from your mother tongue and English - which are mandatory).

I'd have to say cajin.

Why do people allways put Gaelic on their 'dead lanuguage' list?

Gealic is the language of Ireland, Scotland and Wales and they still speak it in those nations.

The signs in Dublin are in English AND Irish Gaelic.

At its loosest definition, a dead langaue is one thats no longer spoken as a native langauge by any population.


By that definition I think Esperanto should win. No native speakers, ever, and I believe all the countries that made it the official language were immediately destroyed.

Cajun, Gaelic=alive. Perhaps in the ICU in some cases, but alive.

Latin= dead.

Hebrew=revived.

the determining factor is if someone still speaks it as a first language. While people speak latin, it is learned later in life. I believe that sanskrit has been recently revived in a few towns in india, but I could be wrong.

Aramaic is still spoken in some small town, I think.

most native american languages are dead now

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinct_languages

As my High School Latin teacher, student of more languages than I would care to ever learn (including Korean, Greek, Russian, Spanish, and a number of others), once said, it isn't Gaelic. It's Irish. I vividly recall him threatening to beat the snot out of anyone who confused the two. (He is, you see, an Irishman.)

Of course, Old Norse is still a living, breathing language. It's the language of Iceland (a nation which has an entire Ministry of its government devoted to coming up with 'Icelandic' equivalents for foreign words to use in government, to keep Icelandic as unchanging as possible).

I remember back when I did a project on Peru I wanted to learn Quecha, it's dying out and I thought it would be neat to help preserve a language and prevent its demise...

As my High School Latin teacher, student of more languages than I would care to ever learn (including Korean, Greek, Russian, Spanish, and a number of others), once said, it isn't Gaelic. It's Irish. I vividly recall him threatening to beat the snot out of anyone who confused the two. (He is, you see, an Irishman.)
It's spoken in scotland too...

Why do people allways put Gaelic on their 'dead lanuguage' list?

Gealic is the language of Ireland, Scotland and Wales and they still speak it in those nations.

The signs in Dublin are in English AND Irish Gaelic.

There appears to be some consistent confusion over this sort of thing on this thread.

Welsh isn't Gaelic, it's Welsh. Irish, Scots Gaelic and Welsh are all Celtic languages, but they're not all Gaelic.

There are two modern branches of Celtic languages, Goidelic (or Q-Celtic) and Brythonic (or P-Celtic)

The Goidelic languages are:

Irish: Estimates of the number of speakers vary. The low figure is c. 65,000, which is the number of fluent speakers who use Irish as their everyday first language. The high figure is 1.5 million, which is the number of people in Ireland with some knowledge of the language (though even the Irish government's own figures show that a million of these use the language less often than weekly).

Scots Gaelic: Roughly 60,000 speakers according to the 2001 UK census, mostly in the western Highlands and Western Isles. Some figures, however, suggest that the number of people using the language as their daily first language may be as low as 20-30,000.

Manx: The last native speaker is often said to have been Ned Maddrell, who died in late 1974. However, by then a minor revival was already underway, and many people were already learning Manx as their second language, and Manx is now available as a school subject on Man. So Manx serves as an excellent example of how difficult it can be to identify the moment of language extinction. The last person who spoke Manx as a first language may be dead, but there has been a continuous tradition of Manx-speaking to the present. For all that, in the 1991 census, only c.650 people out of a population of 71,000 claimed some knowledge of the language.

The Brythonic Languages are:

Welsh: Over half a million speakers (c.650,000?), or about 20.5% of the population of Wales in the 2001 census. This was up from 18.5% in the 1991 census - the first time in a century that the number and percentage of Welsh speakers had both gone up. Probably the healthiest of the Celtic languages, and has official recognition and protection (not that this has helped Irish, mind).

Breton: C. 500,000 speakers - but this has fallen from 1.3 million speakers in little over 70 years. Breton's main problem is that not only does it enjoy no official recognition by the French state, but that it's unconstitutional in France to give it any official recognition. The second article of the French constitution ("The language of the Republic is French") has been used to block the integration of independent Breton-language educational institutions into the national educational system.

Cornish: Already discussed in this thread. The last native speaker was said to be Dolly Pentraeth, who died in 1777. However, limited use of the language seems to have continued, and Cornish fishermen apparently counted their catch in Cornish into the 1940s. The main problem faced by modern Cornish revivalists is that there are four competing versions of the revived language. This is crippling attempts to consolidate the revival. Up to 3.5 thousand people claim some knowledge of Cornish, but the number of people capable of speaking one of the four versions fluently seems to be under 500.

I hope that clears things up!

you all neglect icelantic, so sad you all are. somewhere there is somone speaking one of these languages. That makes them undead languages, like zombies, from a living toung. thus making them not dead, although not circulated in large #'s just not dead.

what about daruin?

you all neglect icelantic, so sad you all are.

Well, as someone who used to live in Iceland, I think I can say with some confidence that a language with 300,000 speakers can hardly said to be 'dead'. There's no particular need to mention it in this thread - except in the context that New Rafnaland mentioned it, as the direct lineal descendent of Old Norse.

Well, as someone who used to live in Iceland, I think I can say with some confidence that a language with 300,000 speakers can hardly said to be 'dead'. There's no particular need to mention it in this thread - except in the context that New Rafnaland mentioned it, as the direct lineal descendent of Old Norse.
I completely agree, but no language is dead. Also, I meant old norse.

Um ... Devanagari?

Devanagiri is a script. Not a language. Hindi is written in devanagiri script.

Gaelic, though I'm not sure it could be called "dead" as there are still people who speak it.

Personally, I don't really care for latin.

languages you missed out that should be there:

Sanskrit (yes it's still spoken in religious contexts, but it's a closed language. It's not allowed to change because it's existence is codified by rigid grammar rules. That means it's a dead language, just like Latin in Europe during the middle ages.)
Ancient Greek
Old Norse (Icelandic is not Old Norse, as someone seemed to believe.)
Old Church Slavonic
Old Persian
Hittite
Gothic
Tocharian (A and B)

and the not directly attested but definately existed (and coincidentally ancestor to all the above languages):

Proto-Indo-European

I love latin. I don't know a lot, but I did learn enough to swear at my French teacher. I would really like to learn more.

Pestis! Furcifer!