NationStates Jolt Archive

How to convert me to Christianity


So, if you want there's really only one way to convert me to Christianity, and that's to do all of the below:

Show me unequivocal evidence for the existence of God. Why is this so difficult? If God has an effect on the world, why is that effect immeasurable? If God's presence was so obvious to the Israelites, why not us? I know unequivocally that my wife, cats, and the chair I'm sitting on exists, so why isn't God's presence just as evident? In other words, why should doubt even be a part of life? (Warning: Most of the bad arguments I receive come from attempts to answer this one.)
Show me that this God is the Christian one. Now that you've accomplished #1, congratulations! While the Nobel committee is on the way, tell me how come this God isn't the God of Islam, Judaism, any of the gods in Greek Mythology or anybody else? Using the Bible as evidence here is circular; "God exists because the Bible says so, and we know because the Bible is the Word of God."
Show me that the Christian God is worth my time. If God is worthy of my worship, why did he create sin? (After all, he created the universe, defined what behaviors would be sinful, and created beings who were not only capable of sinful behaviors but were predisposed toward sinful behavior.) In other words, why create people with sinning natures, punish those sins with dire consequences, and then hide from us - all the while insisting that the only way to be forgiven is to believe in Him without hard evidence?

"One is presuming ... that this is the same god who actually created the audience he was addressing. This leaves us with the insoluble mystery of why he would have molded ("in his own image," yet) a covetous, murderous, disrespectful, lying, and adulterous species. Create them sick, and then command them to be well? What a mad despot this is, and how fortunate we are that he exists only in the minds of his worshippers."

You can't prove what's taken on faith. If you need "hard evidence" to believe everything, then you're out of luck when it comes to theology.

You can't prove what's taken on faith. If you need "hard evidence" to believe everything, then you're out of luck when it comes to theology.


"Science is a list of the dead religions"

"Science is a list of the dead religions"
Science is the study of how the natural universe works. How you spin it really determines if it helps or hurts faith.

*Invokes the Hindu God Shiva to destroy this thread*

DIE THREAD DIE!!!:sniper: :sniper: :mp5: :mp5:

Feel the need to repent? Click here. Click (http://www.jeebus.org/)

*Invokes the Hindu God Shiva to destroy this thread*

DIE THREAD DIE!!!:sniper: :sniper: :mp5: :mp5:
http://www.howardhallis.com/artgallery/toys/ganeshomer.gif
"You have angered Ganesh!!!"

*Invokes the Hindu God Shiva to destroy this thread*

DIE THREAD DIE!!!:sniper: :sniper: :mp5: :mp5:

With gun smilies?!

Run!!

"Science is a list of the dead religions" I think Apollo would like to talk to you about that. Or you could talk to Thor's hammer.

I think Apollo would like to talk to you about that. Or you could talk to Thor's hammer.

I could talk to my own hammer, and I wouldn't have to be batshit insane to believe it is real.

How to convert me to Christianity


So, if you want there's really only one way to convert me to Christianity, and that's to do all of the below:

Show me unequivocal evidence for the existence of God. Why is this so difficult? If God has an effect on the world, why is that effect immeasurable? If God's presence was so obvious to the Israelites, why not us? I know unequivocally that my wife, cats, and the chair I'm sitting on exists, so why isn't God's presence just as evident? In other words, why should doubt even be a part of life? (Warning: Most of the bad arguments I receive come from attempts to answer this one.)
Show me that this God is the Christian one. Now that you've accomplished #1, congratulations! While the Nobel committee is on the way, tell me how come this God isn't the God of Islam, Judaism, any of the gods in Greek Mythology or anybody else? Using the Bible as evidence here is circular; "God exists because the Bible says so, and we know because the Bible is the Word of God."
Show me that the Christian God is worth my time. If God is worthy of my worship, why did he create sin? (After all, he created the universe, defined what behaviors would be sinful, and created beings who were not only capable of sinful behaviors but were predisposed toward sinful behavior.) In other words, why create people with sinning natures, punish those sins with dire consequences, and then hide from us - all the while insisting that the only way to be forgiven is to believe in Him without hard evidence?

"One is presuming ... that this is the same god who actually created the audience he was addressing. This leaves us with the insoluble mystery of why he would have molded ("in his own image," yet) a covetous, murderous, disrespectful, lying, and adulterous species. Create them sick, and then command them to be well? What a mad despot this is, and how fortunate we are that he exists only in the minds of his worshippers."


*stabs*
Stop telling them how to convert us fool!

-Snip-
And Thus does the Troll reveal his true form!

Well, Mr Christians, Allow me to explain.

Why should you convert to Christianity?

Well, to be honest, it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference. Being Christian is nothing more than a label to which one assigns themself. Furthermore, it is a label of ironic repercussions that is probably detrimental to any cause you might have to take it up, but it is not a fundamentally invalid label. A lot has been done with that sticky name held at the front of it, both beneficial and detrimental to mankind. It may be that this movement's aims are similar to your own, in which case, you might as well grab the sticker and join the parade. That's what everyone currently in it is doing.

From an educational point of view, a Study of Christianity is a very fulfilling process, and teaches you a lot about the people it influences. There are few better ways to examine the faith than simply immersing yourself in it for a while. But obviously, that's not what you're after.

People turn to Christianity either because it's the most readily available explanation for something they feel or personally experience or because those before them/close to them have done so. If you don't feel any personal attachment to those of the Christian faith then the only conversion you are likely to get will come from yourself, and when it does so, if rationality doesn't desert you, you'll understand why people believe what they do.

I'm rather lucky at having felt that personal revelation and having been able to trap it mid-execution to properly analyse it and break it down. But it's not something that's easy to explain, and I now sympathise for that rational sect that exists within Christianity because it's utterly impossible for them to do so without seriously reconsidering how they approach God.

Anyway, I wouldn't worry about it. It may at some point be the most rational explanation to you; if so, and you don't mind the label, then you might as well go for it. If not, that's good too; there's a lot more flexibility if you don't tie yourself down to an organisation.

*stabs*
Stop telling them how to convert us fool! Too late. I've taken it to the International Jewish Bolshevik Conspiracy headquarters.

*Invokes the Hindu God Shiva to destroy this thread*

DIE THREAD DIE!!!:sniper: :sniper: :mp5: :mp5:


Shouldn't that be dance, Kali, dance?

How to convert me to Christianity

I'd rather dig out my eyes with a fork, thanks.

I think I'll start sending this fellow TGs on converting to Islam. ;)

How to convert me to Christianity


Huh, I was under the impression you were already Christian. Also, I wouldn't want to know how to convert *you* to Christianity. I don't believe in trying to convert people. You can believe whatever the hell you want to.

So, really, this is a pointless thread for two reasons:

You are already Christians, thus negating the need for conversion.
You assume that I actually want to convert you to Christianity, which I don't.

this is long, but it is at the heart of Christianity (or just skip down to the "Jesus Appears to Thomas" section):

John 20

The Empty Tomb
Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance. So she came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one Jesus loved, and said, "They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we don't know where they have put him!"

So Peter and the other disciple started for the tomb. Both were running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. He bent over and looked in at the strips of linen lying there but did not go in. Then Simon Peter, who was behind him, arrived and went into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, as well as the burial cloth that had been around Jesus' head. The cloth was folded up by itself, separate from the linen. Finally the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went inside. He saw and believed. (They still did not understand from Scripture that Jesus had to rise from the dead.)

Jesus Appears to Mary Magdalene
Then the disciples went back to their homes, but Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus' body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot.

They asked her, "Woman, why are you crying?"

"They have taken my Lord away," she said, "and I don't know where they have put him." At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.

"Woman," he said, "why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?"

Thinking he was the gardener, she said, "Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him."

Jesus said to her, "Mary."

She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, "Rabboni!" (which means Teacher).

Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' "

Mary Magdalene went to the disciples with the news: "I have seen the Lord!" And she told them that he had said these things to her.

Jesus Appears to His Disciples
On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.

Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

Jesus Appears to Thomas
Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!"

But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it."

A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

You can't prove what's taken on faith. If you need "hard evidence" to believe everything, then you're out of luck when it comes to theology.

I dont necessarily need hard evidence, just any evidence that god isnt just fictional. it doesnt have to be a scientific study or anything. just anything that even suggests god might, or even could, exist. and the bible doesnt count, making something up and then writing it down doesnt make it any more real. If I say theres a unicorn outside no one would believe me. If I hand someone a piece of paper that says theres a unicorn outside, some dumbasses would probably go check.

I dont necessarily need hard evidence, just any evidence that god isnt just fictional. it doesnt have to be a scientific study or anything. just anything that even suggests god might exist. and the bible doesnt count, making something up and then writing it down doesnt make it any more real.
God is a human face put onto something everyone feels - the connection that binds them to the system of existence.

Have you experienced this? You probably have, in some form or another. It's certainly no fiction.

Belief in God stems from a response to this connection by accepting a given interpretation of it; that it is a conscious being trying to make contact. If the universe is composed in a similar way to man - things working together to create conscious entities - then that is a valid way of looking at it. But only one of many. Just like Scientific modelling, it provides a way of interpreting conscious existence in a productive manner from which we can deduce other information about our world, but needs to be constantly critiqued or modified to suit the phenomena we experience.

How to convert me to Christianity


So, if you want there's really only one way to convert me to Christianity, and that's to do all of the below:

Show me unequivocal evidence for the existence of God. Why is this so difficult? If God has an effect on the world, why is that effect immeasurable? If God's presence was so obvious to the Israelites, why not us? I know unequivocally that my wife, cats, and the chair I'm sitting on exists, so why isn't God's presence just as evident? In other words, why should doubt even be a part of life? (Warning: Most of the bad arguments I receive come from attempts to answer this one.)
Show me that this God is the Christian one. Now that you've accomplished #1, congratulations! While the Nobel committee is on the way, tell me how come this God isn't the God of Islam, Judaism, any of the gods in Greek Mythology or anybody else? Using the Bible as evidence here is circular; "God exists because the Bible says so, and we know because the Bible is the Word of God."
Show me that the Christian God is worth my time. If God is worthy of my worship, why did he create sin? (After all, he created the universe, defined what behaviors would be sinful, and created beings who were not only capable of sinful behaviors but were predisposed toward sinful behavior.) In other words, why create people with sinning natures, punish those sins with dire consequences, and then hide from us - all the while insisting that the only way to be forgiven is to believe in Him without hard evidence?

"One is presuming ... that this is the same god who actually created the audience he was addressing. This leaves us with the insoluble mystery of why he would have molded ("in his own image," yet) a covetous, murderous, disrespectful, lying, and adulterous species. Create them sick, and then command them to be well? What a mad despot this is, and how fortunate we are that he exists only in the minds of his worshippers."
Good, eye-catching post. Impressive, even if it is likely to be derided as flame-bait.
There's quite a few hilarious responses here as well.
*bows*

If you like Rage Against The Machine, come to my region, Alied Rage Against The Machine.
For those of you who don't know what it is, Rage is a VERY GOOD band. This is one of their more famous songs.
http://app2.sonymusic.com/sme/master...4290358,00.ram

You can't prove what's taken on faith. If you need "hard evidence" to believe everything, then you're out of luck when it comes to theology.
As has occurred before .... and of course ignored ....
it's probably time to know synonomy.

Faith ---------> delusion.

Glorify it all you want, it's still the same bottom line.
And for people who really possess the faculty to determine most/all the factors *ha* conditioning outcome of a perceived scenario, they/y'all shall find that they/y'all can play odds the same as advanced number theorists use in cards and well the outcome still leaves them/you rosy and augmented in a way that suits their/your fancy.

Plain and simple you all will have to try a little harder to piss me off. Right now you arn't doing that good of job, you athiest just need to shut up a convert to Christianity. You really would live a better life.

Plain and simple you all will have to try a little harder to piss me off. Right now you arn't doing that good of job, you athiest just need to shut up a convert to Christianity. You really would live a better life.Anybody interested in converting to Buddhism? Feel free to ask. :D

ps. I'm a buddhist :D

Plain and simple you all will have to try a little harder to piss me off. Right now you arn't doing that good of job, you athiest just need to shut up a convert to Christianity. You really would live a better life.
...can't quite follow you here. Could you simplify a little? Who are you *not* pissed at?

OED:

faith:
2. firm belief, esp. without logical proof

delusion:
1. false belief or impression.
2.Psych. this is a symptom or form of mental disorder

-
WEBSTER'S:

faith:
1. Unquestioning belief, spec. in *God*, religion, etc.
4. loyalty

delusion:
2. a false belief, spec. one that exists psychotically

--------

Well to be fair at least SOME people are still living with the distinction.
Others don't lead a good example.

Anybody interested in converting to Buddhism? Feel free to ask. :D

ps. I'm a buddhist :D
Forgive me, i'm more a liability than an asset as a *convert* ...
however, i was curious about how many different "sects" are active/defunct in the practice of buddhism....?
Could you indulge me?

OED:

faith:
2. firm belief, esp. without logical proof

delusion:
1. false belief or impression.
2.Psych. this is a symptom or form of mental disorder

-
WEBSTER'S:

faith:
1. Unquestioning belief, spec. in *God*, religion, etc.
4. loyalty

delusion:
2. a false belief, spec. one that exists psychotically

--------

Well to be fair at least SOME people are still living with the distinction.
Others don't lead a good example.

Looks similer enough to me. Faith leads to delusion. If you believe something uncriticaly are you not likely to arrive at lie that you will never notice is a lie as long as you remain faithful?

Looks similer enough to me. Faith leads to delusion. If you believe something uncriticaly are you not likely to arrive at lie that you will never notice is a lie as long as you remain faithful?
Most f*cking excellent post.
*bows*

This is exactly the line of thought that is needed for people to take more responsibility for their thoughts and actions!
Again i say, kudos.

you might be a better christian , if you don´t believe in the things , the chriastians wants you to believe...

btw Loyal Christians, people have a right to choose whatever religion they want, either Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Judaism (spelling?), Hindus, etc, or stay athiest. You cannot simply force an individual to convert to your religion at gun point. Anyway, you represent a bad image of Christians.

I think the real question here is 'who is Loyalchristians puppet master'?

*glares around suspicously*