NationStates Jolt Archive

Keruvalia was right - they are concerned that their religion has been hijacked by murderers. It might help their PR if they were to make this sort of thing more widely known.

http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=143&sid=6297971&cKey=1133979638000

MECCA, Saudi Arabia (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah appealed to Muslim leaders on Wednesday to unite and tackle extremists who he said have hijacked their religion.

At a meeting of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC) -- the world's biggest Muslim body -- in the holy city of Mecca, Abdullah said the world's 1 billion Muslims were weak and divided, a description echoed by other leaders.

"It bleeds the heart of a believer to see how this glorious civilisation has fallen from the height of glory to the ravine of frailty and how its thoughts were hijacked by devilish and criminal gangs that spread havoc on earth," Abdullah said.

Hey, isn't King Abdullah rulling over a decrepit theocracy? :p
I mean, a cool thing is that he knows that Jihadis want to overthrow his regime!
But hell, this is a good step forward.

gee, my ideas are totally disorganized today :/

I watched the video of the London bombers the other day.

Practically the entire thing was a rant about false leaders and corrupt scholars of modern Islam.

Gives me hope for the future.

Keruvalia was right

And don't you forget it! :p

And don't you forget it! :p
The only question I have is why it took them so long to wake up - this sort of thing wasn't made public after 9-11.

Abdullah has to realize that he needs to start in his own country - or they will overthrow him and kill him.

And don't you forget it! :p

In most cases that sort of statement is sig worthy. ;)

Of course they're concerned, why wouldn't they be? If the Vatican started sprouting Christian criminality (I don't think that's actually a word, but it gets the point across...) and would-be terrorism, I'm sure the Pope would be concerned too.

Well, that's good to know. Very heartening. Now they need to start doing something about it. Seriously. Us USians can't do it all by ourselves.
Though the administration seems to think we can.

Of course they're concerned, why wouldn't they be? If the Vatican started sprouting Christian criminality (I don't think that's actually a word, but it gets the point across...) and would-be terrorism, I'm sure the Pope would be concerned too.

The initial response some years ago was, "they aren't Muslims" - which has now changed to "they are hijacking Islam and screwing us".

The only question I have is why it took them so long to wake up - this sort of thing wasn't made public after 9-11.

Abdullah has to realize that he needs to start in his own country - or they will overthrow him and kill him.

It didn't. Muslim leaders have been speaking out against Terrorism since the 60s, which saw the rise of the militant Nation of Islam.

The problem is that you have to distinguish between Arabs and Muslims. Arabs make up only 13% of the Muslim world, so their voices are very small and usually not paid any attention to.

If you google "Muslim denounce terrorism" or "Islam against terrorism", you'll find tens of thousands of Islamic voices railing against extremism.

So it's kind of like being a turncoat isn't (edit) it?

"Im not a Muslim, and your religion sucks. So I'm going to become a muslim, and change it for the better!"

It didn't. Muslim leaders have been speaking out against Terrorism since the 60s, which saw the rise of the militant Nation of Islam.

The problem is that you have to distinguish between Arabs and Muslims. Arabs make up only 13% of the Muslim world, so their voices are very small and usually not paid any attention to.

If you google "Muslim denounce terrorism" or "Islam against terrorism", you'll find tens of thousands of Islamic voices railing against extremism.

It seems to have changed, though. It's no longer "well, they aren't real Muslims". It's "they are screwing with our religion". I bet the latter gets a more pronounced response - screw with someone's religion, and they get bent out of shape.

It seems to have changed, though. It's no longer "well, they aren't real Muslims". It's "they are screwing with our religion". I bet the latter gets a more pronounced response - screw with someone's religion, and they get bent out of shape.

Well it's possible that the King in Saudi land has come to realise that the previous way of thinking wasn't working. We know they're not Muslims, but they seem to think they are and it just becomes a butting of ideaologies rather than anything productive.

I have a lot more concerns for Saudi than whether or not they're going to deal with global terrorism or not, though. Osama and his bunch couldn't give a flying fuck what Abdullah says about them ... Osama hates Saudi Arabia because of the Saud family's ties to the US.

I'm more concerned with how Saudi Arabia treats women and non-Muslims than anything else. Kudos to them for starting to talk about something in the way of progress, but there's a lot more work to be done.

Well it's possible that the King in Saudi land has come to realise that the previous way of thinking wasn't working. We know they're not Muslims, but they seem to think they are and it just becomes a butting of ideaologies rather than anything productive.


The other problem is getting over a billion people to agree on an approach - in a religion that has a natural heterodoxy and crosses multiple countries and cultures.

The other problem is getting over a billion people to agree on an approach - in a religion that has a natural heterodoxy and crosses multiple countries and cultures.

Yep, and if Islam has shown me one thing, it's that getting even 5 people to agree on something in the Mosque is harder than pushing a truck up a hill with a rope.

A billion? Yeah .... good luck.

Us USians

Americans.

... Muslim leaders have been speaking out against Terrorism since the 60s, which saw the rise of the militant Nation of Islam.The problem is that you have to distinguish between Arabs and Muslims.

The problem as I see it is the Muslim Religion has never spoken out with a united front against Terrorism. That in part is due to the structure of the religion. Unlike most Christian denominations, there is no central leadership like there is in the Church of England and the Roman Catholic Church.

My understanding is that no one individual in the Muslim Religion has the right or authority to speak for the entire religion or even one sect. I think that these leaders in this meeting, discussing the issues, and issuing a united statement against terrorism will do a lot of good. A united stand by Muslim leaders, both Arab and non-Arab, against terrorism is what the world needs.

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I'm surprised this thread isn't receiving more attention :(

I'm surprised this thread isn't receiving more attention :(

I'm not. It's been a tradition to ignore anything that doesn't portray Muslims as universally terrorists. Doing so helps ease any cognitive dissonance that pro-war advocates might experience when innocent Muslims 'accidentally' die in Iraq.

I'm not. It's been a tradition to ignore anything that doesn't portray Muslims as universally terrorists. Doing so helps ease any cognitive dissonance that pro-war advocates might experience when innocent Muslims 'accidentally' die in Iraq.

Well have to disagree here at least concerning the NS population. I believe that over the past year the NS population has been turning to the facts of terrorism and who is doing it. Now I am also what you would call "Pro-War". However I am muslim myself. I want these oppressive leaders overthrown. Muslims need to have freedom as much as the rest of us. Would like to see Iran turn toward a true democracy next followed by a laundry list of other Muslim nations.
Having been in the military myself during the first gulf war. I can say without a doubt that civilian casualties are not thought of lightly. I would have never wanted to cause a civilian death. It is bad enough having to live with the thought of killing another person in combat. A child or woman bystandards death would not be acceptable at all to me. Everyone I met in the military I believe shares my outlook. So please don't paint the brush over the military as civilian killers. Maybe I am over doing the response. I just wanted to get that out there.

Islam has some enormous violence encouraged in Quran. I think there is a problem in a theology, when it is creating such big violence all over the world. When I talk to people, I find everyone having similar problems with ISlam no matter where are they from. I think there is a problem with it. If it was just the US or just the Israel talking, we could have ignored but ISlam is causing problem all over the world. How come we don't see Christian, Jewish or Hindu terrorists bombing all over the world but just only Islamic terrorists. Why is it that under Christian majority lands, the non-Christians can live pretty happily while under ISlam majority lands the non-Muslims suffer? In addition, why is it that all Muslim majority lands cannot implement secular democracy when the Christian majority lands can do that easily?? Why do Muslims only living in the US or other western countries face ideological clash with other people while Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Jews and others don't face that?

I could quote Quran right now showing the violence encouraged against non-Muslims but don't wanna....

Islam has some enormous violence encouraged in Quran. I think there is a problem in a theology, when it is creating such big violence all over the world. When I talk to people, I find everyone having similar problems with ISlam no matter where are they from. I think there is a problem with it. If it was just the US or just the Israel talking, we could have ignored but ISlam is causing problem all over the world. How come we don't see Christian, Jewish or Hindu terrorists bombing all over the world but just only Islamic terrorists. Why is it that under Christian majority lands, the non-Christians can live pretty happily while under ISlam majority lands the non-Muslims suffer? In addition, why is it that all Muslim majority lands cannot implement secular democracy when the Christian majority lands can do that easily?? Why do Muslims only living in the US or other western countries face ideological clash with other people while Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Jews and others don't face that?

I could quote Quran right now showing the violence encouraged against non-Muslims but don't wanna....

OMG TEH MUSLIMS R TEH EVIL 1S N VIOLENT UNLIKE ANY OTER RELIGION111!!1!!! :rolleyes:

OMG TEH MUSLIMS R TEH EVIL 1S N VIOLENT UNLIKE ANY OTER RELIGION111!!1!!!

No, Muslims are not violent. Many of them are like you and me, wake up from bed in the morning to live. However, Islam has always given birth to 30%-35% Muslims, who are very intolerant and very extremists. Therefore, if 100 people are living at an area, atleast 30 of them would be very intolerant. Therefore, there is always a few Musilms, who become victims of Islam. That's where the problem arise. On the other hand, other religions don't give birth of such intolerant people like Islam.

No, Muslims are not violent. Many of them are like you and me, wake up from bed in the morning to live. However, Islam has always given birth to 30%-35% Muslims, who are very intolerant and very extremists. Therefore, if 100 people are living at an area, atleast 30 of them would be very intolerant.

So when was this very unbiased and obviously objective scientific survey of "intolerant and very extremist" Muslims done? Cuz it sounds to me like that statistic, like most statistics, comes from ass-space.

Therefore, there is always a few Musilms, who become victims of Islam. That's where the problem arise. On the other hand, other religions don't give birth of such intolerant people like Islam.

Oh they don't? Since when? Never heard of the Crusades? Salem Witch Trials? Inquisition? Hitler and the Nazis? Abortion clinic bombers? Tim McVeigh? IRA terrorists?

As usual, people who criticize Islam for how evil and vile it is are blind to the failings of all humanity and all religion.

Islam has some enormous violence encouraged in Quran.

No it doesn't.

I could quote Quran right now showing the violence encouraged against non-Muslims but don't wanna....

No you can't, but you can try.

“Whoever hurts a non Muslim, I shall be his complainant and for whoever I am a complainant, I shall ask for his right on the day of Resurrection.” - The Prophet (pbuh) (Sunnah)

Hey, isn't King Abdullah rulling over a decrepit theocracy? :p
I mean, a cool thing is that he knows that Jihadis want to overthrow his regime!
But hell, this is a good step forward.

gee, my ideas are totally disorganized today :/

Lets remember though, it was the unholy alliance that his ancestors created with the Wahabbi sect that ensures the autocracies survival - believe me, if the leader could tomorrow make wide sweeping reforms without any backlash, he would do it, unfortunately, the reality is alot more complicated than just one man making decisions and his many minions doing what he wants.

No it doesn't.

No you can't, but you can try.

“Whoever hurts a non Muslim, I shall be his complainant and for whoever I am a complainant, I shall ask for his right on the day of Resurrection.” - The Prophet (pbuh) (Sunnah)

True, and unfortunately, as well, many idiots here quote from the Quran without knowing the historical context in which it occured - how many of these nuts know that the Christian king of Abyssinia provided sanctuary to Mohummad when he and his followers were under attack by his (Mohummad's) own tribe? or the fact that he said, "You will find no greater friend than the Christian".

Yes, I heard about Nazi, IRA, Crusade whatever but these were the things of the past. Islam is causing violence now all over the world. Try answering the series of questions I have posed.

Keruvalia asked for some quotes from Quran, well here it goes....

5:51
O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust (Translation by Yusuf Ali)

9:29
Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection. (Translation by Shakir)

8:39
Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.

9:5
Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (Translation by Picthal)

8:67
It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise. (Translation by Picthal)

33:26 And those of the People of the Book [Jews and Christians] who aided them - Allah did take them down from their strongholds and cast terror into their hearts. (So that) some (Jews and Christians) you slew, and some you made prisoners. (Translation Yusuf Ali)

8:7 Behold! Allah promised you one of the two (enemy) parties, that it should be yours: Ye wished that the one unarmed should be yours, but Allah willed to justify the Truth according to His words and to cut off the roots of the Unbelievers;
(IN OTHER WORDS, WIPE OFF THE UNBELIEVERS)


2:191 And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
=====================

I can most probably quote more. The reason why I know about Islam because I was born in an Islamic country as a minority. Therefore, I have read Quran as everyone, no matter if you are a Muslim or not is forced to read Quran in an Islamic land. Why is it that in Christian majority lands, the non-Christians can enjoy such freedom? No, I am not a Christian but comparing Christian countries as opposed to Muslim countries.

There might be some controversial verse in Bible as well but the Christians have reformed themselves but Muslims haven't. That's the problem. Again, try answering the questions that I have posed.

True, and unfortunately, as well, many idiots here quote from the Quran without knowing the historical context in which it occured - how many of these nuts know that the Christian king of Abyssinia provided sanctuary to Mohummad when he and his followers were under attack by his (Mohummad's) own tribe? or the fact that he said, "You will find no greater friend than the Christian".

So, you are trying to say that Quranic quotes were meant for considering JUST the historical context? If yes, then since that history is over, now, we can stop following quran. However, if no, then well, Quran does encourage violence and that is the root cause of anarchy on Islamic lands and also abroad.

"Muslim leaders in Mecca say Islam facing crisis"
No shit sherlock.