NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, carbon dioxide is one matter - but it doesn't do any good for someone to turn up the heat. Apparently, we're supposed to be at a solar minimum, but it's acting worse than it does at a solar maximum - and our shrinking ice areas on Earth are not the only ones shrinking over the past few years. It's a bit scary to watch glaciers melt in Switzerland, but even scarier to see Mars doing the same thing over the same time period.

If it's all due to man-made activity, it means there's something we can do about it. If it's just the Sun heating up on its own, we're screwed.

http://www.earthfiles.com/news/news.cfm?ID=1017&category=Science

In September, NASA reported new evidence from Mars Orbiters that "for three Martian summers in a row, deposits of frozen carbon dioxide near Mars's South Pole have shrunk from the previous year's size, suggesting a climate change in progress."

The Martian South polar ice cap shrinking has been accelerating since 1999 at a "prodigious rate," according to Michael Malin, Principal Investigator for the Mars Orbiter Camera. Dr. Malin said, "The images documenting changes from 1999 to 2005 suggest the Martian climate is presently warmer * and perhaps getting warmer still * than it was several decades or even centuries ago."

Scientists are not sure if the Sun is getting hotter and heating up the entire solar system, including Mars, the Earth and even Pluto.

Well, the Mars warming is definitely not man-made, so it's rather interesting. Personally, I feel it's part of a warming trend caused by the sun, but human actions can accelerate it to a degree.

We haven't been observing Mars' ice caps for long enough to know what cycles it goes through naturally (unlike on Earth).

Hah, stupid Martians. They're dead and they STILL can't get their envirnment straight.

It's more some kind of local warming and not a global warming on Mars. Realclimate has a blog entry (http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=192) on this.

EDIT: Nice quote from the blog:

Thus inferring global warming from a 3 Martian year regional trend is unwarranted. The observed regional changes in south polar ice cover are almost certainly due to a regional climate transition, not a global phenomenon, and are demonstrably unrelated to external forcing. There is a slight irony in people rushing to claim that the glacier changes on Mars are a sure sign of global warming, while not being swayed by the much more persuasive analogous phenomena here on Earth...

It's about time for martians to end their dependence on fossil fuels and middle east oil, and develop clean renewable energy.

It's more some kind of local warming and not a global warming on Mars. Realclimate has a blog entry (http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=192) on this.

That's as far as we know; this has only been observed for 3 years, so it's not really known what exactly it is. Calling it local is probably a safer guess until more data is retrieved.

Clearly we must force the Martians to sign Kyoto.

Clearly we must force the Martians to sign Kyoto.

But if we do, then smaller, non-signing planets like Mercury or Pluto will steal all the work!

We haven't been observing Mars' ice caps for long enough to know what cycles it goes through naturally (unlike on Earth).

Ill have to agree with you there. But only concerning Mars.

While yes we have be observing the earth for much longer we cant possibly think we know the cycles our planet goes through. We have useful data from maybe the past 200 years at most. Past that its speculation and whatever we find through archeological digging. And not everyone agrees on that...

Over the long term (a very long term), the sun is heating up. Main-sequence stars tend to get hotter as they age. I'm a bit vague on the precise nuclear physics involved, but essentially it's because of the increasing amount of helium; helium fusion produces much more energy than hydrogen fusion. Not much we can do about that unless we can figure out a way to remove helium from the sun.

The alternative, of course, is to move. There are plenty of promising younger stars around, and we have a few billion years to look them over and make a choice.

:p

The alternative, of course, is to move. There are plenty of promising younger stars around, and we have a few billion years to look them over and make a choice.
:p

Then we can go there in our windmill powered spaceships.

Past that its speculation and whatever we find through archeological digging. And not everyone agrees on that...
And alot of people believe that evolution is a myth - ironically the the majority of the same people who oppose global warming.

And alot of people believe that evolution is a myth - ironically the the majority of the same people who oppose global warming.

Is that so? That would be interesting. Can you back that up somehow?

Would make a nice poll.

That was caused by all of the fancy SUVs NASA sent there: Sojourner, Spirit, Opportunity

Ah drag - I was gonna post something amusing here like 'aha! It's all those damn enviromentally wasteful Martians' but it seems the world and his dog beat me to the punch. Guess that pretty much shafts my original contributions to this thread. Oh well.

Nice take guys :p

Ah drag - I was gonna post something amusing here like 'aha! It's all those damn enviromentally wasteful Martians' but it seems the world and his dog beat me to the punch. Guess that pretty much shafts my original contributions to this thread. Oh well.

Nice take guys :p

If you like, you can make a complaint about those damned Jovians and their inability to clean up that Red Spot.

That was caused by all of the fancy SUVs NASA sent there: Sojourner, Spirit, Opportunity

I know, Opportunity and Spirit have both lasted 430+ Martian days longer than expected.

And we now have hummers that get 16m/g.

Come on NASA, get your act together.

"Global Warming Melts Martian Icecaps"

Oh nooos! And here I invested all that money in the Martian ski resort franchise! :(

Well, if it's warming up on Mars, the beaches will open.

Then Mars will need women...

Makes me wonder if the sun goes through cycles of radiating more or less heat, as well... you'd think scientists would notice that, though, because they've been looking at the sun for a long time, and understand star cycles rather well... at least the phases they go through over billions of years.
Maybe aliens have decided enough is enough! Humans, if given the chance, are too destructive to allow to go on as a species, so they're going to boil us all alive with our own sun!
Fiends. ;)

Well, if it's warming up on Mars, the beaches will open.

Then Mars will need women...

Or Santa Claus.

"Look! Warming can happen without man! That means man isn't doing it!"

Look, there are people who think man is solely responsible for all climate change. We call those people idiots.

Then there are people who think that climate change has only one cause. Therefore, if there are changes in solar intensity, climate change must be from that and only that. We call those people simpletons.

Then there are people who think that if something can happen naturally, then it IS happening naturally, and somehow that natural tendency somehow protects the natural cycles from all outside interference. We call these people dupes.

Then there are people who will, in the same sentence, poo poo the doomsday (or, more often, merely gloomy) predictions of climatologists and related scientists and yet spout out the doomsday (or merely gloomy) predictions of economists about the cost of becoming more "environmentally friendly" as if they were absolute fact. We call those people shills.

"Look! Warming can happen without man! That means man isn't doing it!"

Look, there are people who think man is solely responsible for all climate change. We call those people idiots.

Then there are people who think that climate change has only one cause. Therefore, if there are changes in solar intensity, climate change must be from that and only that. We call those people simpletons.

Then there are people who think that if something can happen naturally, then it IS happening naturally, and somehow that natural tendency somehow protects the natural cycles from all outside interference. We call these people dupes.

Then there are people who will, in the same sentence, poo poo the doomsday (or, more often, merely gloomy) predictions of climatologists and related scientists and yet spout out the doomsday (or merely gloomy) predictions of economists about the cost of becoming more "environmentally friendly" as if they were absolute fact. We call those people shills.

If you'll notice my first post, I'm not saying that man has nothing to do with it. It doesn't help, though, that nature is turning up the thermostat on top of it.

If the sun can just DO that, eventually it's either going to fry or freeze us and we won't be able to do anything to stop that from happenning - we can barely stop ourselves from making things worse.

If you like, you can make a complaint about those damned Jovians and their inability to clean up that Red Spot.

Hehe - that's not the Jovians' fault, that's simply a big ol' zit on the face of everyone's favourite gas giant.

As for cleaning it up, well... do you know where to find that much exfoliating lotion?

Hehe - that's not the Jovians' fault, that's simply a big ol' zit on the face of everyone's favourite gas giant.

As for cleaning it up, well... do you know where to find that much exfoliating lotion?

Maybe they could try the "Monolith" treatment.

If you'll notice my first post, I'm not saying that man has nothing to do with it. It doesn't help, though, that nature is turning up the thermostat on top of it.

If the sun can just DO that, eventually it's either going to fry or freeze us and we won't be able to do anything to stop that from happenning - we can barely stop ourselves from making things worse.

I wasn't attacking you. You have to admit that SOME people jump on this data as conclusive proof of man's complete uninvolvement in influencing climate change. I just wanted to head that off at the pass.

Actually Kimchi, I've seen your opinion evolve slightly over time with the addition of new data. I respect that.

Maybe they could try the "Monolith" treatment.

Hmm, very effective certainly, but risky - can in some extreme cases lead to complete matter-transformation and even combustion.

Pwetty though :)