NationStates Jolt Archive

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/7C8126E3-834C-4BB1-AD4D-1C85CE6F9D93.htm
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/12/06/romania.rice.ap/


Talk about timing.
Romania is being investigated for participating in, or at least tolerating CIA torture policies, and just now they sign this deal.
It may not be directly connected, but do you think it's a good idea?

Or to use a tinfoil explanation...are the US simply shifting certain functions from certain secret bases to other less secret ones? There have been reports afterall that the last detainees were flown out of Europe only a day or so before Condi Rice started her European visit.

And what does Argesia think of all this? :p

Grand Opening Sale! Get two for one American Torture at all participating U.S. proxy sites! Bases now opening in Romania!

Romania is cheap, closer to the Middle East, and there are fewer idiot Euro-social democrats.

I can certainly see the strategic value of having a base in Romania.. pretty ideal location if you ask me. There are a few spots in Europe we really don't need to be, I'm sure.. but Romania's quite suitable.

I can certainly see the strategic value of having a base in Romania.. pretty ideal location if you ask me. There are a few spots in Europe we really don't need to be, I'm sure.. but Romania's quite suitable.

Yes. Our strategic net is growing. We are now erecting anti-terrorist towers in Isengard and Mordor. On top of these, we are creating the perfect detection device. It's like a giant eye.

Yes. Our strategic net is growing. We are now erecting anti-terrorist towers in Isengard and Mordor. On top of these, we are creating the perfect detection device. It's like a giant eye.

It's really a thousand smaller eyes, if you look closely.. a cloud of micro-satellites.. :p

Yes. Our strategic net is growing. We are now erecting anti-terrorist towers in Isengard and Mordor. On top of these, we are creating the perfect detection device. It's like a giant eye.

Too bad they have such a big vulnerability. *Throws shiny ring into volcano*

The design is actually based on the Jew-Ray Emitter, which the CIA used on 9/11 to force airline pilots to fly their planes into buildings.

I thought this said 'US Babes - now in Romania!'
And with the actually post saying foinally i was thinking WTF?

I was also expecting some kick arse pictures.

All your Romanian base are belong to us.

Actually, there's been a long program of closing bases in Germany, where the government and local people have openly stated many times that they want the US forces to vanish permanently, and opening replacement bases in Eastern European countries such as Romania.

Nothing tin foil hat about it. Some people don't want the bases in their country, and others want the bases in their country.

Yes. Our strategic net is growing. We are now erecting anti-terrorist towers in Isengard and Mordor. On top of these, we are creating the perfect detection device. It's like a giant eye.hahaha.. brillant

that deserves to go into someones sig.

I thought this said 'US Babes - now in Romania!'
And with the actually post saying foinally i was thinking WTF?

I was also expecting some kick arse pictures.you are tired or... You are just a Perv... welcome to the club :D

Romania is cheap, closer to the Middle East, and there are fewer idiot Euro-social democrats.

You talk of Romania as you would talk about buying a house:

Good value for money, close to the shops and the neighbours are really good.

I wonder why people find some American attitudes to foreign policy both ignorant and arrogant?

Oh, yes. Here I am.

First of all: Leonstein, I told you so. My country sucks.
(Surely, on your op, you meant:

And what does Argesia think of all this?

Surely?)

Secondly:

Romania is cheap, closer to the Middle East, and there are fewer idiot Euro-social democrats.

We do have fewer proper Social-Democrats. And this means that we have two categories of leaders: populist and corrupt. The US had no problem getting along with either (although the latter style themselves Social-Democrats). But don't trust me: read a book, pick up a newspaper. Something.

You talk of Romania as you would talk about buying a house:

Good value for money, close to the shops and the neighbours are really good.

I wonder why people find some American attitudes to foreign policy both ignorant and arrogant?

Obviously, the Romanian government is willing to take cash.

And what does Ariddia think of all this? :p

Did you really mean to ask me, or is that a typo? :D

In any case, I think they're just trying to continue through more official means what they'd been doing through hidden ones. It's a new way of covering it up instead of admitting to it.

You talk of Romania as you would talk about buying a house:

Good value for money, close to the shops and the neighbours are really good.

I wonder why people find some American attitudes to foreign policy both ignorant and arrogant?

Get some perspective, don't be an arse, It is a better place for the US to base its troops because they will have the same strategic position (in fact a better one), with less of a burden on the US taxpayer.

You talk of Romania as you would talk about buying a house:

Good value for money, close to the shops and the neighbours are really good.

I wonder why people find some American attitudes to foreign policy both ignorant and arrogant?
Duh. The rest of the world only exists as an American Tourist attraction, so people can go along in blatently unsuitable clothing with cameras they don't know how to use and take pictures of each other standing in front of other things going "Isn't That Quaint?"

<_<

Duh. The rest of the world only exists as an American Tourist attraction, so people can go along in blatently unsuitable clothing with cameras they don't know how to use and take pictures of each other standing in front of other things going "Isn't That Quaint?"

<_<

There are myriad foreigners in downtown DC nearly every day who fit that description. Are you saying that they are really Americans?

Get some perspective, don't be an arse, It is a better place for the US to base its troops because they will have the same strategic position (in fact a better one), with less of a burden on the US taxpayer.

Don't call me an arse. If you can't see what I'm getting at, perhaps you should remove your head from yours.

There are myriad foreigners in downtown DC nearly every day who fit that description. Are you saying that they are really Americans?
Maybe not originally, but the cultural influence has spread...

Maybe not originally, but the cultural influence has spread...
I remember seeing the same foreigner antics in downtown DC in the 1970s.

I think that stupid tourist behavior is a universal phenomenon.

I remember seeing the same foreigner antics in downtown DC in the 1970s.

I think that stupid tourist behavior is a universal phenomenon.
Could be. But its rise does seem to coincide with the globalisation of Coca-Cola.

Hmm...

*Conspiracy theories abound*

Talk about timing.

The US has been negotiating for access to bases in both Romania and Bulgaria for at least two years.

This is nothing new.

Duh. The rest of the world only exists as an American Tourist attraction, so people can go along in blatently unsuitable clothing with cameras they don't know how to use and take pictures of each other standing in front of other things going "Isn't That Quaint?"

<_<

Hell, ever been to Harvard (The University)? I couldn't go to a class without having to push through a horde of Asian tourists who were gawking and tanking pictures. I swear that there are a fifty different Asian families with me in their vacation photographs.

It's universal, people go to other countries, look around, have a fun time, get charged huge amounts of money by scammers and disreputable shop-owners, take pictures, go home, and feel enlightened. Unfortunately, usually it's just their wallets that are lighter.

On the subject of the US saving money, come on. We don't do things to be nice people. No nation does. Why should we pay more money to stay in a country that doesn't want us? Instead, we get the hell out of Germany and the other European states, and go to a cheaper locale where we create jobs, save money, and gain a much more strategically important position.

Could be. But its rise does seem to coincide with the globalisation of Coca-Cola.

Hmm...

*Conspiracy theories abound*

Or the decline of Spirograph...

well, in eastern european countries the people are generally more grateful to the usa. in old europe people think they are something better than the americans and have forgotten, that freedom isnt free.
http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/5552/01020440470009bq.jpg

well, in eastern european countries the people are generally more grateful to the usa.

I 100% agree here. In fact, the most requested souvenir when I return to Bulgaria is ANYTHING with the US flag on it.

in old europe people think they are something better than the americans and have forgotten, that freedom isnt free.

No argument from me on this point either. Many of us americans have forgotten that also.

well, in eastern european countries the people are generally more grateful to the usa. in old europe people think they are something better than the americans and have forgotten, that freedom isnt free.


Freedom isn't free? What does it cost then? Secrecy, torture, the undermining of the nation state? Was the freedom of the Sandinistas just a bit too much for the guardians of freedom to take?
Spare us the sanctimony please. It's about naked power and American and Western imperialism. And that's OK, but don't try to dress it up as something else.

Some "old Europeans" (whatever that means this week) may indeed think they are better than Americans, but possibly that's because they don't buy glib oversimplifications like "Freedom isn't free". Or because they find the "War on Terror" pretty terrifying.

Please define your "freedom", because so far as I can see it is the freedom to meddle with other states sovereignty in such a way as to make the concept pretty meaningless for them.

Freedom isn't free? What does it cost then? Secrecy, torture, the undermining of the nation state? Was the freedom of the Sandinistas just a bit too much for the guardians of freedom to take?
Spare us the sanctimony please. It's about naked power and American and Western imperialism. And that's OK, but don't try to dress it up as something else.

Some "old Europeans" (whatever that means this week) may indeed think they are better than Americans, but possibly that's because they don't buy glib oversimplifications like "Freedom isn't free". Or because they find the "War on Terror" pretty terrifying.

Please define your "freedom", because so far as I can see it is the freedom to meddle with other states sovereignty in such a way as to make the concept pretty meaningless for them.


Freedom is not something that you can take for granted...there is a price that needs to be paid. Your railing against alleged "american imperialism" is part of the price YOU pay.

If you need this basic concept explained to you, let me know when you can get past the rhetoric you're spewing and I'll make an attempt.

Freedom isn't free? What does it cost then?the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. it requires deterrence and at times active opposition to those, who would not have us living in freedom.It's about naked power and American and Western imperialism.this is bs, for decades americans have tried to be everyones best friend, being the single largest contributor to the world food programm and bearing most of the cost of the UN programms and resolutions and whenever some disaster struck anywhere in the world, the usa offered help. and what did the usa get for its selflessness? regularly americans where blown up all over the world and the american flags printed on the grain sacks where used in flagburning ceremonies by mobs in the streets of the aidreceiving country.

Surely, on your op, you meant...
Yes, yes I did.
I don't think I've seen Ariddia for ages on here...but it was very hot yesterday night, and I was tired, and I'm on my knees and beg for forgiveness.
Sorry, mate.

Did you really mean to ask me, or is that a typo? :D
Again, I'm sorry. More a mix-up in my feeble mind than a typo. Your opinion is valued though. ;)

the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
Freedom requires first and foremost a few firm principles that will not be violated, regardless of how bad the situation is.
You're using empty catch phrases to support other empty catch phrases.

this is bs, for decades americans have tried to be everyones best friend
They didn't do a very good job.

...the american flags printed on the grain sacks where used in flagburning ceremonies by mobs in the streets of the aidreceiving country.
And the idea is to find out why, not to simply go "They're ungrateful, we hate them now!".

But that's for another thread.

you are tired or... You are just a Perv... welcome to the club :D
Tired at 20 past 10...........
Perv hmmmmmmmm.:D

Sorry to restart this one, but other than cries of BS, and implications of limited brain power on my side, could one of our "freedom" defenders explain what they mean by "freedom"? And what "freedoms" they are happy to deny others in the name of ...err...freedom?

Sorry to restart this one, but other than cries of BS, and implications of limited brain power on my side, could one of our "freedom" defenders explain what they mean by "freedom"? And what "freedoms" they are happy to deny others in the name of ...err...freedom?

It's traditional for everyone to do that, regardless of whether they're on the left or right.

All governments start out with an idea of fairness, and move towards fascism.

Any more questions?