NationStates Jolt Archive

On NS, sometimes I feel politically homeless. My reasons are:

1. As a libetarian, I believe in a minimal social safety net. Those that are truly unable to work or provide for themselves should be given (legally) enough capital to survive, including food and shelter.

2. Charity is too unrelible a tol to trust for the above accomodations.

3. Freedom of, and from religion is getting hooribly and dangerously confused. I believe in an open marketplace of ideas.

4. The war in Iraq is becoming supported (in a weird way among libertarians). It has always been, and will continue to be bullshit. Different cultue. One that preceds our own. Our arrogance will be punished, wait and see that I am right about this one poiint.

5. Republicrats suck ass at running America. nationalism, ans confusing patriotism will not save us fom logic.

I welcome being torn to pieces, as I'm coming to terms with differences I have among my "own"

(And no, I've done my homework. I'm far from turning "pink". But I'm far from turning stupid, too...)

*snip*
Forgive the typos, I can't edit them. This JOLT fuckup is getting old. :(

Weird. I can edit my posts using either IE or Mozilla.

On NS, sometimes I feel politically homeless. My reasons are:

1. As a libetarian, I believe in a minimal social safety net. Those that are truly unable to work or provide for themselves should be given (legally) enough capital to survive, including food and shelter.


If we could protect peoples retirement from vultures then sure SS could go. Enron, et all made my moms retirement loose close to half. She has to work to manditory retirement now.


2. Charity is too unrelible a tol to trust for the above accomodations.

Where there is a great deal of money, corruption is sure to follow.


3. Freedom of, and from religion is getting hooribly and dangerously confused. I believe in an open marketplace of ideas.

What is so hard to understand? Religion is your own business. Don't expect everybody else to follow your code of "morality" Treat people as you would expect to be treated and don't take offense when you aren't.

Marketplace of ideas? I don't follow....


4. The war in Iraq is becoming supported (in a weird way among libertarians). It has always been, and will continue to be bullshit. Different cultue. One that preceds our own. Our arrogance will be punished, wait and see that I am right about this one poiint.

Agree. You can't force democracy on a people. They have to want it. People that have only known dictators take time.....


5. Republicrats suck ass at running America. nationalism, ans confusing patriotism will not save us fom logic.

I welcome being torn to pieces, as I'm coming to terms with differences I have among my "own"

(And no, I've done my homework. I'm far from turning "pink". But I'm far from turning stupid, too...)

Agree.

So why are you feeling isolated?

On NS, sometimes I feel politically homeless. My reasons are:

1. As a libetarian, I believe in a minimal social safety net. Those that are truly unable to work or provide for themselves should be given (legally) enough capital to survive, including food and shelter.

2. Charity is too unrelible a tol to trust for the above accomodations.

3. Freedom of, and from religion is getting hooribly and dangerously confused. I believe in an open marketplace of ideas.

4. The war in Iraq is becoming supported (in a weird way among libertarians). It has always been, and will continue to be bullshit. Different cultue. One that preceds our own. Our arrogance will be punished, wait and see that I am right about this one poiint.

5. Republicrats suck ass at running America. nationalism, ans confusing patriotism will not save us fom logic.

I welcome being torn to pieces, as I'm coming to terms with differences I have among my "own"
1. What's a "libetarian?" ;) I too, advocate helping those unable to help themselves, but so far we've not done a real good job of that. The sheer size of the Country is one factor, trying to buy votes is another, and there's a significant lack of monitoring and oversight.

2. Charity is only one "tool" in the arsenal.

3. "Open marketplace" is good.

4. We will be "punished" regardless.

5. Sometimes they do.

1. As a libetarian, I believe in a minimal social safety net. Those that are truly unable to work or provide for themselves should be given (legally) enough capital to survive, including food and shelter.


I believe in a huge and pervasive social safety net...completely funded and operated only by individual initiative and voluntary organizations. Edit: The commune enjoys no benefit from the bureaucracy and corruption that will inevitably follow efforts to centralize and control.


2. Charity is too unrelible a tol to trust for the above accomodations.


Let's see the data that backs up this claim. :)


4. The war in Iraq is becoming supported (in a weird way among libertarians). It has always been, and will continue to be bullshit. Different cultue. One that preceds our own. Our arrogance will be punished, wait and see that I am right about this one poiint.


I've noticed that this tendency seems especially strong among those claiming allegiance to Objectivist ideologies: http://www.aynrand.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=7866&news_iv_ctrl=1512 My favorite is the insistance that the United States wasn't doing enough to confiscate weapons via house-to-house searches. I guess only Americans are allowed to use personal firearms to defend their nation against unwanted invaders.

On NS, sometimes I feel politically homeless

I feel the same way. I used to follow the (American) Libertarian crowd very closely myself. Then I read the first book of The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith, largely agreed with everything I read (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10043059&postcount=3), and decided that putting my life and absolute faith into the hands of those who operate the private sector is complete insanity.

More (American) Libertarians need to read Adam Smith, paying special attention to the bits where he points out the evil schemes of business and those who own and control it.

If we could protect peoples retirement from vultures then sure SS could go. Enron, et all made my moms retirement loose close to half. She has to work to manditory retirement now.


Where there is a great deal of money, corruption is sure to follow.


What is so hard to understand? Religion is your own business. Don't expect everybody else to follow your code of "morality" Treat people as you would expect to be treated and don't take offense when you aren't.

Marketplace of ideas? I don't follow....


Agree. You can't force democracy on a people. They have to want it. People that have only known dictators take time.....



Agree.

So why are you feeling isolated?
I agree with most neolibertarians, less so the hard-core anarcho-capitalists and objectivists on certain issues. I don't want to inspire infighting.
You should substitute "money" with "power". Paper doesn't grant any elite their position, ideals do.

My compalinet about eligion concerns the militant atheists. I'm atheist, and I accept the fact that we're not free from religion, and never wil be. I'll continue to fight theocracy in any form, though.
I'll also fight enforced faithlessness. For all I know, they may go after the faithful without faith... lol... the Buddhists, next.

I feel the same way. I used to follow the (American) Libertarian crowd very closely myself. Then I read the first book of The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith, largely agreed with everything I read (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10043059&postcount=3), and decided that putting my life and absolute faith into the hands of those who operate the private sector is complete insanity.

More (American) Libertarians need to read Adam Smith, paying special attention to the bits where he points out the evil schemes of business and those who own and control it.
I'm a believer in Amdam Smith's work. But only when people remember it should be coupled with his other work on business responsibility.
Too many people forget about that.

From what I know of Vittos Ordination's beliefs, you seem to have some things in common.

Let's see the data that backs up this claim. :)


Well considering that nothing is stoping charities now from helping people and they aren't doing a fully adequate job at it is that good enough for you. Not sure how you provide "data" of something that doesn't happen except to say it dosen't happen which we can all see.

But anyway I agree with Eichen. I'm also politically homeless. He decided to associate with the Libertarians, while I seem to prefer to associate with the Republicans, but both stink in my opinion.

The number one thing I seem to hear from Libertarians is they don't want a social safety net. Since that is such an important issue for them I think its hard to be a libertarian and want some level of wellfare. And their simplistic solution of solving everything through property law is a little anoying. This is an exageration so please don't take it too seriously. But when I hear some of the libertarian arguments I imagine being in a libertarian society and that if someone shots me, I have to sue him for trespassing (the bullet illegally entered my property) and damage to personal property.

Oh by the way I agree with Eichen's statements completly. I'm thinking of starting a political party of more pragmatic and sensible policies where instead of winning ideological arguments we focus on working together to solve problems. For example the pro-life people and the pro-choice people could work together to prevent unwanted pregnacies instead of protracted legal debate.

Maybe Eichen and others would be interested in joining. I'm a little busy at the moment, but look forward to seeing a post about it sometime later in December or early January.

I am in between political associations at the moment, so I'm not truly homeless. Just on political welfare, I suppose.

Well considering that nothing is stoping charities now from helping people and they aren't doing a fully adequate job at it is that good enough for you.

No, simply restating the same claim without providing any evidence is not good enough for me. :)

Weird. I can edit my posts using either IE or Mozilla.
It only effects certain users (those saying 'n/a' for their post count).

Jolt is generally working for me, but won't let me add polls or view moderator avatars or images (even when I set the profile options to do so).