NationStates Jolt Archive

I had a conversation not too long ago where we were talking about how men are naturally considered suspect when it comes to child care. When I became a Boy Scout troop leader, I had to fill out a form so they could investigate me. And parents, unlike the days when I was a Scout, are encouraged to stay through the whole pack meeting. I also work in the nursery with my wife at church on Sundays (they have a policy of "no men alone with children").

A lot of these policies stem from the insurance that these organizations cover.
Maybe it's profiling - but then again, it's bad to profile young Arab men who are getting on planes, but not bad to profile men who happen to be around children.

But I found the following story, and I was wondering if any of you found it to be a ridiculous policy - I mean, what's going to happen on a plane in flight?
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5052
While flying on Qantas Airlines, New Zealander Mark Worsley was asked to change his seat. You see, the airline viewed him as a threat to the child seated next to him. What was Mr. Worsley’s crime? Was he on a sex-offenders database? Far from it.

The shipping manager and father of two-year-old twins was the victim of a blanket policy, adopted by Qantas and Air New Zealand, whereby they prohibit all men from sitting next to children traveling alone. Said a shocked Worsley,

“At the time I was so gobsmacked that I moved. I was so embarrassed and just stewed on it for the entire flight.”

That's a fucked up policy--no two ways about it.

Hmm… so men are simultaneously expected to be super-daddies and suspected as paedophiles at the same time?

I've given up on society.

I would like to think I'm not evil, since I've been working on myself for such a long time to be good. I'm spiritual people, lmao.

But I found the following story, and I was wondering if any of you found it to be a ridiculous policy - I mean, what's going to happen on a plane in flight?
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5052
There was a thread on this story (though obviously not from that website) last week.

While flying on Qantas Airlines, New Zealander Mark Worsley was asked to change his seat. You see, the airline viewed him as a threat to the child seated next to him. What was Mr. Worsley’s crime? Was he on a sex-offenders database? Far from it.

The shipping manager and father of two-year-old twins was the victim of a blanket policy, adopted by Qantas and Air New Zealand, whereby they prohibit all men from sitting next to children traveling alone. Said a shocked Worsley,

“At the time I was so gobsmacked that I moved. I was so embarrassed and just stewed on it for the entire flight.”

Deep Kimchi, there are much, much, MUCH more important things in this world to spend your time getting worked up about. This is insignificant.

I hate children. Any policy that means I don't have to sit next to them has my approval. Mind you, I usually fly business anyway because of my size, so it is not really an issue.

I'm a scout leader myself, and although I haven't had the whole investigation done on me like you said, it is our group's official policy to avoid situations in which a male leader is left alone with a single child. If we can only spare one leader to stay behind, it will always be a female one. Interestingly enough, in Holland we're only a few steps away from passing a law that will grant a father's right to see his children after divorce, and it will even give him the means to prosecute the mother if she doesn't follow the agreements made at the time of the divorce.

How odd ... I was asked to be a troop leader for the Girl Scouts and I coach girl's softball. Yeah, I had to fill out a background check, but that's s.o.p. for everyone.

I've never had a problem. I guess parents feel they can trust me. *shrug*

"No men allowed alone with children."

This policy makes several assumptions: that all men are either child abusers, or paedophile rapists...

I call bullshit.

it also assumes that all women are harmless.

Not all..... take me for example. I'm good. Honestly.

In my opinion, yes.

In my opinion, yes.
Well, can't say you're right, can't say you're wrong. I can only judge after myself, and that doesn't proove the statement false, so...

In my opinion, yes.

Hey...

*Bolol sad*

Hey...

*Bolol sad*
*gives cookie*

*Bolol happy*

In my opinion, yes.

Okay.... all of my friends consider me a good guy. Maybe too good for my own good. So I hereby take offense at this comment. I haven't got it in me to be evil, I suppose.:(

In my opinion, yes.

Well i guess we can all give up the good guy act and start pillaging then. I really havent been doing enough of that lately.

Just out of interest would you have answered the same if the thread was about women?

Women have a far greater capacity for cruelty than men ever will.

Women have a far greater capacity for cruelty than men ever will.

Any evidence for this? Seriously, I'd like to see it.

Well i guess we can all give up the good guy act and start pillaging then. I really havent been doing enough of that lately.

Just out of interest would you have answered the same if the thread was about women?
Answered an incredibly general question flippantly? Sure. Do I believe that all men are evil and bad? No. But YES is more fun.

"No men allowed alone with children."

This policy makes several assumptions: that all men are either child abusers, or paedophile rapists...

I call bullshit.

Not really.

The primary assumption made is that most child molesters are male.

Which is true.

Answered an incredibly general question flippantly? Sure. Do I believe that all men are evil and bad? No. But YES is more fun.

But I wanted to pillage...

I was gonna pillage you guys something special.

But I wanted to pillage...

I was gonna pillage you guys something special.
You don't have to be evil or bad to pillage. So pillage away!

I find interesting the difference in responses to this topic and another one.

In threads about rape of women, many NSers argue that women must be held responsible for taking reasonable precautions to "prevent" rape. (Don't get me started on how many thing are wrong with that argument.)

In threads about this policy, the airlines are taking precautions to prevent child abuse and everyone is outraged.

Hmmmmm.

Well if you look at it from another point of view it's totally understandable. What if the kid starts crying or throwing some kind of fit? I, as a man, don't want to have to deal with that. If I can't punch it, eat it, or fuck it I don't know what to do with it, and doing any of those things to kids is considered rude.

Women are naturally suited to take care of kids. That's why nature gave them the responsibility and the equipment necessary to birth them, feed them, and change their diapers. Don't blame me if it's a woman's place to take care of kids, it's natural law and airline policy.

(standard disclaimer, The preceeding post does not necessarily represent the views of Drunk Commies Deleted, Max Barry enterprises, or the Jolt corporation.)
__________________

Not really.

The primary assumption made is that most child molesters are male.

Which is true.

Ach, but it does not acknowledge that the abusers and molesters are a minority among a large population (roughly half that of the country AND planet).

It is the same premise behind racial profiling. Just because a minority has comitted heinous acts does not mean that they all intend to. It seems almost ridiculous to think that such a large group would all be the same in their goals and crimes.

In my opinion, this is another example of paranoia.

The primary assumption made is that most child molesters are male.

Which is true.It's also true that most child molesters don't use air travel, so what are they worried about?
And it's not like a molester would molest the child right there next to him in an airplane, would he.. Otherwise certainly one of the other passenger would call a flight attendent to complain about the noise.

Women are naturally suited to take care of kids. That's why nature gave them the responsibility and the equipment necessary to birth them, feed them, and change their diapers. Don't blame me if it's a woman's place to take care of kids, it's natural law and airline policy.

You forgot to write this in your Jesussaves persona.

You forgot to write this in your Jesussaves persona.
No, that's reserved for joke posts.

No, that's reserved for joke posts.:sniper:

I find interesting the difference in responses to this topic and another one.

In threads about rape of women, many NSers argue that women must be held responsible for taking reasonable precautions to "prevent" rape. (Don't get me started on how many thing are wrong with that argument.)

In threads about this policy, the airlines are taking precautions to prevent child abuse and everyone is outraged.

Hmmmmm.

Rape and sex dicrimination are two different things methinks. Plus I dont actually remember anybody blaming women for getting raped. They may have said that it would be reasonable to take certian precautions, but actually holding the woman accountable? If people did say that then its rather a fringe beleif, about as popular as saying we should ignore this story.

:sniper:
;) :fluffle: ;)

Ach, but it does not acknowledge that the abusers and molesters are a minority among a large population (roughly half that of the country AND planet).

It is the same premise behind racial profiling. Just because a minority has comitted heinous acts does not mean that they all intend to. It seems almost ridiculous to think that such a large group would all be the same in their goals and crimes.

In my opinion, this is another example of paranoia.

I don't agree with the policy either. I was just pointing out an error in your thinking.

Any evidence for this? Seriously, I'd like to see it.

Women hold grudges longer than men. Men, when out for revenge, in general, are content to handle things with physical confrontations.

Women when out for revenge, again in general, are out to destroy thier targets lives. They use things like rumors, gossip, and sabotage to make thier targets lives as misreable as possible.

And me saying this is no more outlandish than saying that all men are bad and evil.

I find interesting the difference in responses to this topic and another one.

In threads about rape of women, many NSers argue that women must be held responsible for taking reasonable precautions to "prevent" rape. (Don't get me started on how many thing are wrong with that argument.)

In threads about this policy, the airlines are taking precautions to prevent child abuse and everyone is outraged.

Hmmmmm.

I was one of the guys arguing against that assumption.

Women are not at fault for rape, that is reserved for the rapist. And anyone who argues against the morning-after pill for this purpose doesn't have their head on straight.

By similar light men should not to be held accountable for the impusive actions of a few perverted individuals.

I guess the argument I'm trying to make is...If a woman is raped, it doesn't mean she's a "slut", and a few sick individuals shouldn't ruin an entire gender.

It's also true that most child molesters don't use air travel, so what are they worried about?

On what do you base this assertion?

I don't agree with the policy either. I was just pointing out an error in your thinking.

Ach! I welcome any form of debate.

As for all men evil, I like to think I'm doing my little part to progress that idea.

as for the actual issue at hand. In most, if not all, school systems there are "guidelines" that in reality are only not rules because they aren't written down. These rules apply particularly to men, and say that male teachers should never be in a room alone with any student. If you must be, the door should be open, but ideally, there should be atleast one other accountable adult present. Something as innocent as a friendly hug (and believe me, there are plenty of children who are desperate for male attention) can be interpreted as being highly sexual. My advising teacher was once investigated because a former student of his was sitting on the arm of a chair he was in (grading papers) and a male student of his was leaning with his elbows on the teachers back, kinda reading over the shoulder. I personally have no idea how this could be sexual, but a students parent entered the room, and filed a complaint which then requires a full investigation.

things like this are rediculous. If the rule said women can't sit next to young children, I really think there would be a much louder responce. Either way, the policy is wrong.

Rape and sex dicrimination are two different things methinks.

Um. Yes. But rape and child molestation aren't so far apart.

Plus I dont actually remember anybody blaming women for getting raped. They may have said that it would be reasonable to take certian precautions, but actually holding the woman accountable? If people did say that then its rather a fringe beleif, about as popular as saying we should ignore this story.

1. large numbers did appear in this thread to say women were at least partially responsible for getting raped

2. If women must make certain precautions, why can't men be expected to sometimes be imposed upon by such precautions? Or for precautions made for children?

Women when out for revenge, again in general, are out to destroy thier targets lives. They use things like rumors, gossip, and sabotage to make thier targets lives as misreable as possible.
have you by any chance dated my sister at any point?

Um. Yes. But rape and child molestation aren't so far apart.



1. large numbers did appear in this thread to say women were at least partially responsible for getting raped

2. If women must make certain precautions, why can't men be expected to sometimes be imposed upon by such precautions? Or for precautions made for children?
Good points. Why is this such a big deal? Most men won't molest kids, but in this day and age what's wrong with the extra precaution?

1. large numbers did appear in this thread to say women were at least partially responsible for getting raped

Sadly, that sentiment isn't only reflected in that thread. There was a recent study done of Americans (I forget where, but I think I saw it on CNN) that said a majority (IIRC 60% or so) said women were partially to blame for them getting raped.

1. large numbers did appear in this thread to say women were at least partially responsible for getting raped
Large numbers? I didnt see many people actually blaming women.


2. If women must make certain precautions, why can't men be expected to sometimes be imposed upon by such precautions? Or for precautions made for children?

I never said women must take any precations. They can take them if they want to to reduce the chance of getting raped. Whatever happens the blame lies fully at the feet of the attacker, thats what I've been saying.

On what do you base this assertion?I base it on the fact most people don't use air travel, and there is no reason to assume child molesters use it more than other people.

But now that you make me think about it, I might be mistaken. Considering the number of sex tourists going abroad to have sex with child prostitutes in third world countries, there's probably a higher fraction of child molesters using air travel. (But likely still not most)

have you by any chance dated my sister at any point?

Maybe. Stranger things have happened.

Deep Kimchi, there are much, much, MUCH more important things in this world to spend your time getting worked up about. This is insignificant.

Please explain why you find this insignificant. I mean, sure it's your opinion, but seriously think about it.

Obviously, this just proves the ignorance of some people. As a female, I can't really say that I have ever been in this situation, however, I just want to express my opinion in this matter.

Firstly, this is just a simple case of gender- discrimination. Has it not ever occurred to the people who put this stupid rule in place that:

1) Not all men are paedophiles;and,
2) There are loads of female paedophiles out there (think Karen Ellis etc)

How the man felt when being told he had to give his seat up is almost indescribeable.

If I was male, and was told to give up my seat, I'd sue!!

probably yes. but not as bad as many people think, see im just a klepto with a habit of burning stuff. like houses, and orphanages, and anything flamable.

In my opinion, yes.
I have to agree. But I wouldn't say that all men are pedophiles...I'd use much much much (much much much) harsher words to describe a pedophile.

I am a man...and i am good...

I was evil before evil was cool. http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/teufel/devil-smiley-073.gif

Deep Kimchi, there are much, much, MUCH more important things in this world to spend your time getting worked up about. This is insignificant.

Maybe, but these are the kinds of stupid, insidious, things that people should be forced to look at in the light of day. (The world has lots of problems...but this is one that could be fixed pretty quickly by a few right-thinking people.)

Well if you look at it from another point of view it's totally understandable. What if the kid starts crying or throwing some kind of fit? I, as a man, don't want to have to deal with that. If I can't punch it, eat it, or fuck it I don't know what to do with it, and doing any of those things to kids is considered rude.

Women are naturally suited to take care of kids. That's why nature gave them the responsibility and the equipment necessary to birth them, feed them, and change their diapers. Don't blame me if it's a woman's place to take care of kids, it's natural law and airline policy.

(standard disclaimer, The preceeding post does not necessarily represent the views of Drunk Commies Deleted, Max Barry enterprises, or the Jolt corporation.)
__________________

Disclaimer not withstanding, what you're suggesting here is that because you are a caveman...that's the best the species has to offer. :rolleyes:

Let's hope not...

I don't think anyone should be asked to sit next to an unaccompanied child against their will...any more than they are asked to sit in the exit row. (I've only done it once myself, the flight attendant did ask my permission, and somehow I managed to avoid committing a felony for almost three hours.)

Actually what this really reflects is that people are terrified of lawsuits, which can happen for almost anything. In general Western Civilization has become very legalistic when it comes to morality.

But also it was stupidly handled. Fair enough, the airline has a dumb policey. Why couldn't they enforce it with some tact? One thing I despise about political correctness is that it seems to replace actual politeness.

On what do you base this assertion?

I don't have the numbers in front of me...but I think the obvious fact that you've not heard of a rash of airborne child molestations is a pretty good indication. If we want to talk about sheer numbers...which is what the women vs. men argument is based on...the vast majority of child molesters choose children they know, to whom they have easy access. The idea that somehow a commercial airline would make a good stalking ground is absurd.

I had a conversation not too long ago where we were talking about how men are naturally considered suspect when it comes to child care. When I became a Boy Scout troop leader, I had to fill out a form so they could investigate me. And parents, unlike the days when I was a Scout, are encouraged to stay through the whole pack meeting. I also work in the nursery with my wife at church on Sundays (they have a policy of "no men alone with children").

A lot of these policies stem from the insurance that these organizations cover.
Maybe it's profiling - but then again, it's bad to profile young Arab men who are getting on planes, but not bad to profile men who happen to be around children.

But I found the following story, and I was wondering if any of you found it to be a ridiculous policy - I mean, what's going to happen on a plane in flight?
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5052
The story has been covered and discussed at length on here already, but your point is still well-taken. Quite frankly, it pisses me off!

The other day a young girl wanted to pet my lil dog, so I walked over to the gas pump where her mother was filling her SUV. The girl petted Jewelsie and some of the dog's hair drifted into the girl's hair. On impluse I reached down to brush it away, as I would have done for either of my grand-daughters, and the mother reacted as if I was a molestor, grabbing the girl up and quickly stuffing her in the SUV. I was so stunned that I didn't know what to say. That incident has bothered the crap outta me ever since!

Are men evil and bad? No. I am, but I'm hardly representative.

This is an example of the cruel stereotyping that is awash in the media and the law. If women were told they couldn't sit next to married men because they might use feminine wiles to seduce them, it would be equally retarded (possibly even slightly less).

Good points. Why is this such a big deal? Most men won't molest kids, but in this day and age what's wrong with the extra precaution?

The problem is that it promotes a bad (baseless) stereotype. I suppose they'd be some kind of outrage if I said I don't want my child sitting next to a black person...because statistically, they're more likely to be in a gang.

as for the actual issue at hand. In most, if not all, school systems there are "guidelines" that in reality are only not rules because they aren't written down. These rules apply particularly to men, and say that male teachers should never be in a room alone with any student. If you must be, the door should be open, but ideally, there should be atleast one other accountable adult present. Something as innocent as a friendly hug (and believe me, there are plenty of children who are desperate for male attention) can be interpreted as being highly sexual. My advising teacher was once investigated because a former student of his was sitting on the arm of a chair he was in (grading papers) and a male student of his was leaning with his elbows on the teachers back, kinda reading over the shoulder. I personally have no idea how this could be sexual, but a students parent entered the room, and filed a complaint which then requires a full investigation.


Vaitupu, I can only speak for the school district where my kids go to school, and the district in another state where my mother teaches, but those 'guidelines' apply to any adult working with kids -- teachers, aides, volunteers (including parents), custodial staff, you name it. It's true for schools, social service agencies, and pretty much any place where adults are working with kids, and it applies to both men and women. In fact, in most jobs where adults work with kids, the adults are mandated reporters for any type of child abuse or neglect, and there is regular training and background checks about appropriate behavior, for both men and women.

That's a fucked up policy--no two ways about it.
Agreed here.

The political correctness police are either idiots or the precursors to a horrible sort of social revolution the likes of which will make the one in Iran in the late seventies look like bingo day in a nursing home.

The other day a young girl wanted to pet my lil dog, so I walked over to the gas pump where her mother was filling her SUV. The girl petted Jewelsie and some of the dog's hair drifted into the girl's hair. On impluse I reached down to brush it away, as I would have done for either of my grand-daughters, and the mother reacted as if I was a molestor, grabbing the girl up and quickly stuffing her in the SUV. I was so stunned that I didn't know what to say. That incident has bothered the crap outta me ever since!

Don't take it personally. Sometimes our inner mother grizzly bear comes out. I suspect that if you watched a stranger reach out to touch one of your grandkids, your attention would be piqued.

Deep Kimchi, there are much, much, MUCH more important things in this world to spend your time getting worked up about. This is insignificant.

ARE YOU SHITTING ME?

This is possibly one of the most important issues of our time. It is just another terrible link in a massively fucked-up chain of trends that have been growing more blatant and more disgusting for years. When you have a society that is so distrustful that it starts affecting ordinary people's lives, that's when the society collapses. Imagine a world where the only person who talks to you on the street is a mugger, and a man offering to help a woman with a suitcase is a rapist. This is the kind of paranoid, hyper-sensitive, politically correct world I've been battling with twin .44 Magnums since the fuckin' day I was born! Don't tell me that this isn't important!

Don't take it personally. Sometimes our inner mother grizzly bear comes out. I suspect that if you watched a stranger reach out to touch one of your grandkids, your attention would be piqued.
Perhaps, but I wouldn't react as if they were going to rape them on the spot! :mad:

Good points. Why is this such a big deal? Most men won't molest kids, but in this day and age what's wrong with the extra precaution?

Because what about the emotional harm inflicted on the man in that plane? What about the emotional distress of the guy who posted in this thread that he brushed a girl's head and the mother ran off?

See, this sort of thing is the stuff most PC bullshitters go on and on about "but what about the emotional distress of..." I'm trying to point out that their logic doesn't work. By trying to protect a child, they inflict a lot of genuine guilt on innocent men, probably enough to seriously mind-fuck them for a while. That's something that makes me so mad, I could headbutt a hole in the wall just thinking about it.

While flying on Qantas Airlines, New Zealander Mark Worsley was asked to change his seat. You see, the airline viewed him as a threat to the child seated next to him. What was Mr. Worsley’s crime? Was he on a sex-offenders database? Far from it.

The shipping manager and father of two-year-old twins was the victim of a blanket policy, adopted by Qantas and Air New Zealand, whereby they prohibit all men from sitting next to children traveling alone. Said a shocked Worsley,

“At the time I was so gobsmacked that I moved. I was so embarrassed and just stewed on it for the entire flight.”
And that's what happens when women run things.

Men aren't considered evil (yet), they're a liability. Airlines and schools and Boy Scouts and anyone else is far more worried about getting sued than inconviencning and humiliating people. It's all about the bottom dollar, really.

I'm a scout leader myself, and although I haven't had the whole investigation done on me like you said, it is our group's official policy to avoid situations in which a male leader is left alone with a single child. If we can only spare one leader to stay behind, it will always be a female one. Interestingly enough, in Holland we're only a few steps away from passing a law that will grant a father's right to see his children after divorce, and it will even give him the means to prosecute the mother if she doesn't follow the agreements made at the time of the divorce.In my opinion,this policy is wonderful for one reason...Children are prone to tell stories we all know this.If a child were to get mad at you for any reason (say u didnt let him/her do what they wanted and let some other child instead)and tell a story on the Adult whether it be man or woman,then there would be a witness to the situation.If there isnt another adult present or another child its your word against theres.Who do you think the courts would believe?And i dont feel like goin to the next post so im gonna say what i have to here,not all women are good(and yes this is coming from a woman).Not all Men are bad.

This is possibly one of the most important issues of our time. It is just another terrible link in a massively fucked-up chain of trends that have been growing more blatant and more disgusting for years. When you have a society that is so distrustful that it starts affecting ordinary people's lives, that's when the society collapses. Imagine a world where the only person who talks to you on the street is a mugger, and a man offering to help a woman with a suitcase is a rapist. This is the kind of paranoid, hyper-sensitive, politically correct world I've been battling with twin .44 Magnums since the fuckin' day I was born! Don't tell me that this isn't important!
I agree! I feel like kicking ass and taking names when this sort of shit happens! :mad:

... not all women are good(and yes this is coming from a woman).Not all Men are bad.
Oh, thank you so much for tossing us that bone! :headbang:

One more thing before I go off and punch a bystander:

Why the hell is Qantas fucking Airlines responsible for preventing pedophilia? How the hell does that work? As far as I know, most pedophiles find victims on the internet or near schools or malls. When was the last time you heard about a pedophile sitting next to a child because of random seat selection altering their travel plans so that when they get off the plane, they can stalk and molest that child? It sounds so stupid, even a criminal pervert couldn't be that dumb. The only other option is to move the guy to prevent him from raping a kid right the fuck on the airplane. Believe me, Qantas Airlines, next time someone attempts rape or molestation on an airplane, I'll take care of the rapist and you just concentrate on improving your complimentary meals. Fuckups. My blood is boiling so furiously right now that I feel I have to stop for a while.

Why the hell is Qantas fucking Airlines responsible for preventing pedophilia? How the hell does that work? As far as I know, most pedophiles find victims on the internet or near schools or malls. When was the last time you heard about a pedophile sitting next to a child because of random seat selection altering their travel plans so that when they get off the plane, they can stalk and molest that child? It sounds so stupid, even a criminal pervert couldn't be that dumb. The only other option is to move the guy to prevent him from raping a kid right the fuck on the airplane. Believe me, Qantas Airlines, next time someone attempts rape or molestation on an airplane, I'll take care of the rapist and you just concentrate on improving your complimentary meals. Fuckups. My blood is boiling so furiously right now that I feel I have to stop for a while.
No shit! I need to take a frakking walk! :headbang:

Perhaps, but I wouldn't react as if they were going to rape them on the spot! :mad:

Well, I don’t know how old the child was, so I’m projecting the situation to my 6 and 3 years olds, and I’m just saying that I’d likely have had a similar reaction (though I don’t let my kids roam out of the car when I’m pumping gas, either). As someone who has been assaulted, I have learned to trust my gut instinct, and I do that especially when it comes to my kids. I’d rather be wrong and embarrassed than hanging up posters of a missing kid. I’m just saying it’s a reaction of instinct. It only takes a split second for someone to abduct a child. Sorry, but in mother grizzly bear’s eyes, you’re all suspect.

I agree! I feel like kicking ass and taking names when this sort of shit happens! :mad:

Thank you, God! Finally someone who understands. Give me a high five!

Well, I don’t know how old the child was, so I’m projecting the situation to my 6 and 3 years olds, and I’m just saying that I’d likely have had a similar reaction (though I don’t let my kids roam out of the car when I’m pumping gas, either). As someone who has been assaulted, I have learned to trust my gut instinct, and I do that especially when it comes to my kids. I’d rather be wrong and embarrassed than hanging up posters of a missing kid. I’m just saying it’s a reaction of instinct. It only takes a split second for someone to abduct a child. Sorry, but in mother grizzly bear’s eyes, you’re all suspect.
Then you're paranoid and should consult the services of a competent mental health professional.

Thank you, God! Finally someone who understands. Give me a high five!
[ High fives Freudotopia ] There. Better now? :D

Then you're paranoid and should consult the services of a competent mental health professional.

How helpful. [/sarcasm]

How helpful. [/sarcasm]
Thanks. I thought so too. :p

I wonder if the airline has another policy of not sitting women next to the emergency exit doors because "women are more likely to panic and screw it up"?

I wonder if the airline has another policy of not sitting women next to the emergency exit doors because "women are more likely to panic and screw it up"?
ROFLMAO! Good one! Talk about tit for tat! ( Pun intended! ) :D

[ High fives Freudotopia ] There. Better now? :D

Much better. Thanks.

The story has been covered and discussed at length on here already, but your point is still well-taken. Quite frankly, it pisses me off!

The other day a young girl wanted to pet my lil dog, so I walked over to the gas pump where her mother was filling her SUV. The girl petted Jewelsie and some of the dog's hair drifted into the girl's hair. On impluse I reached down to brush it away, as I would have done for either of my grand-daughters, and the mother reacted as if I was a molestor, grabbing the girl up and quickly stuffing her in the SUV. I was so stunned that I didn't know what to say. That incident has bothered the crap outta me ever since!
To be honest, if I had a kid and some adult's hand was in her hair my first instinct would be to assume he's a molestor. It might be a shame, but considering the number of pervs out there you have to react a little protectively.

The problem is that it promotes a bad (baseless) stereotype. I suppose they'd be some kind of outrage if I said I don't want my child sitting next to a black person...because statistically, they're more likely to be in a gang.
I'm all in favor of a reasonable degree of profiling. So long as it doesn't seriously violate people's rights and it's used to prevent violent crimes (terrorism, rape, molestation) and not victimless crimes (drugs, prostitution) I'm in favor. arranging seating on a plane so men don't sit next to non-related kids isn't a big violation of anyone's rights and the potential harm it averts is pretty great.

To be honest, if I had a kid and some adult's hand was in her hair my first instinct would be to assume he's a molestor. It might be a shame, but considering the number of pervs out there you have to react a little protectively.
Um ... my hand wasn't in her hair. I simply used my thumb and forefinger to catch the dog hair and remove it. This was at a very busy convenience store, with people constantly around, and I really LOOK like a pedophile, with my military insignia ballcap and a US Army jogging suit. Jeeze! Get at least a LITTLE real, people! [ cusses ] :headbang:

But that's ok. Next time I'll have a really sarcastic insult ready! :p

Well i don't agree with that polic as there are women pedophiiiles too but because of feminism we aren't supposed do say anything about with out being sexist.(unlike this policy nudge nudge0

Um ... my hand wasn't in her hair. I simply used my thumb and forefinger to catch the dog hair and remove it. This was at a very busy convenience store, with people constantly around, and I really LOOK like a pedophile, with my military insignia ballcap and a US Army jogging suit. Jeeze! Get at least a LITTLE real, people! [ cusses ] :headbang:

But that's ok. Next time I'll have a really sarcastic insult ready! :p
People are protective of their kids. I understand that. I would be the same way if some strange adult (strange as in stranger, not weirdo) started interacting with my hypothetical kid.

I would just start yelling and embarress the airline, by screaming 'you think I am a F***** pedophile, NO well then STFU, a policy, wat a sexist airline, you going to put N****** in the back too '

Trust me they will go away, and move the child or ignore it completely. If you do this, and if they throw you out sue their asses to hell.

People are protective of their kids. I understand that. I would be the same way if some strange adult (strange as in stranger, not weirdo) started interacting with my hypothetical kid.
Look, Dude ... you know by now that I helped raise five children, and now have seven grandchildren. I'm just as protective as any other rational grandparent, but you gotta exercise SOME degree of judgment! If some strange man compliments me on my grandchildren ( for example ), I say "thank you" and smile, particularly if it's in a relatively busy place with other people around. If some strange man takes one of my grandchildren by the hand and tries to lead him/her off, he's dead. Simple, yes? :p

I would just start yelling and embarress the airline, by screaming 'you think I am a F***** pedophile, NO well then STFU, a policy, wat a sexist airline, you going to put N****** in the back too '

Trust me they will go away, and move the child or ignore it completely. If you do this, and if they throw you out sue their asses to hell.
GOOD MOVE! :D

This policy is incredibly bad.

Say I was flying to Sydney from Perth. That's about a four hour flight. I wouldn't want to spend those four hours seated next to someone else's whiny, annoying brat. Just by being sat next to the kid, there is an expectation that I would be responsible for them for the duration of the flight, whether I've ever even met them before or not. I don't want to deal with that. I would ask if anything could be done about it, if I could be moved to another seat. But, to be moved because, as a man, I'm automatically considered a suspected paedophile? That offends me.

This isn't about protecting children, it's about an airline company covering their ass from getting sued and keeping their insurance premiums down. It's complete bullshit. At least I get the satisfaction of knowing that it'll probably backfire, because there's every chance they're going to be sued for this.

If they're really that concerned about the children, then they shouldn't be letting children fly unaccompanied at all.

I used to fly alone all the time. I must have made 50 flights being an Unnacompanied minor.

Never once did I feel uncomfortable. Most travelers just ignore you.

I used to fly alone all the time. I must have made 50 flights being an Unnacompanied minor.

Never once did I feel uncomfortable. Most travelers just ignore you.

You mean there weren't crowds of men all trying to touch your naughty parts? Wow. Imagine that. :rolleyes:

You mean there weren't crowds of men all trying to touch your naughty parts? Wow. Imagine that. :rolleyes:
Indeed! [ shocked look ] I thought ALL men were potential pedophiles! :rolleyes:

You mean there weren't crowds of men all trying to touch your naughty parts? Wow. Imagine that. :rolleyes:

No, they wern't.

After hearing all the bad stories, I was a little dissapointed.

:(

Indeed! [ shocked look ] I thought ALL men were potential pedophiles! :rolleyes:

Yeah, TSI must have really dodged the bullet to fly that many times as a kid and avoid being molested with all those evil, perverted MEN on board! Good heavens!

Um ... my hand wasn't in her hair. I simply used my thumb and forefinger to catch the dog hair and remove it. This was at a very busy convenience store, with people constantly around, and I really LOOK like a pedophile, with my military insignia ballcap and a US Army jogging suit. Jeeze! Get at least a LITTLE real, people! [ cusses ] :headbang:



Yes, because of course we all know you can just tell who the pedophiles are by looking at them. It’s only the skeevy looking people who will hurt your child, not the friendly grandfatherly type. :rolleyes:

Look, statistically, most pedophiles are known to the victims family and groom their victims over a length of time, they usually aren’t strangers who reach over to cop a feel. That said, we teach our kids that strangers shouldn’t be touching them, period. If you don’t like that, well, that’s just too damn bad. I thank people who compliment my kids all the time. There’s never been any touching involved.

The fact that you are getting so bent out of shape over this is a bit odd. I think it’s fairly common knowledge that we have to teach our kids about personal space in a way we didn’t even 30 years ago. Is this really infringing on your right to wander around reaching out as if you’re going to touch little kids that don’t know you? I suspect not. If you genuinely think that parental reactions such as these are truly paranoid, then to take it personally is mighty foolish.

Yes, because of course we all know you can just tell who the pedophiles are by looking at them. It’s only the skeevy looking people who will hurt your child, not the friendly grandfatherly type. :rolleyes:

Look, statistically, most pedophiles are known to the victims family and groom their victims over a length of time, they usually aren’t strangers who reach over to cop a feel. That said, we teach our kids that strangers shouldn’t be touching them, period. If you don’t like that, well, that’s just too damn bad. I thank people who compliment my kids all the time. There’s never been any touching involved.

The fact that you are getting so bent out of shape over this is a bit odd. I think it’s fairly common knowledge that we have to teach our kids about personal space in a way we didn’t even 30 years ago. Is this really infringing on your right to wander around reaching out as if you’re going to touch little kids that don’t know you? I suspect not. If you genuinely think that parental reactions such as these are truly paranoid, then to take it personally is mighty foolish.

Nabbing some dog hair sitting on a person's head is a bit different than touching the kid. And given that it sounds like the lady was RIGHT THERE, I think she was being overly paranoid. I mean, if she was watching actively enough to spazz about a little thing like that, than I think she was being more than attentive enough to notice if something, y'know, actually dangerous was happening.

Well, I don’t know how old the child was, so I’m projecting the situation to my 6 and 3 years olds, and I’m just saying that I’d likely have had a similar reaction (though I don’t let my kids roam out of the car when I’m pumping gas, either). As someone who has been assaulted, I have learned to trust my gut instinct, and I do that especially when it comes to my kids. I’d rather be wrong and embarrassed than hanging up posters of a missing kid. I’m just saying it’s a reaction of instinct. It only takes a split second for someone to abduct a child. Sorry, but in mother grizzly bear’s eyes, you’re all suspect.
It's very interesting that, as soon as a woman fails or over-reacts, they blame their instincts, but on the other hand, men have to control their instincts more and more and never can refer to it. Allright, the fuelling station story has nothing to do with failure but with over-reaction. It's a harmless incident in the end, but I can imagine how the guy must have felt ... misjudged! But when it comes to other cases, one can see what this so called Political "Correctness" and "Gender Mainstreaming" is all about: It's about favouring women and damnify men - global.

Besides facts (Yes, there are men raping kids and/or women), one should never forget, that there are always to sides of the coin to be considered.
I read a lot studies about this subject matter and found out that only statistics (Regardless if right or wrong) that show women as victims and men as perpetrators make their way into public. But a fact is a fact, independent of its high profile. If you just take 15 minutes a day and use your searching machine you'll find a lot of facts and statistics that show EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE!
Two examples: Child murder is commited nine times more by women!
(Anyone should tell QANTAS Feminairlines)
A Canadian field study (afaik they tested more than 200,000 men and women)
says that some 55 % of domestic violence is commited by women!)
A German study says that 87 % of all kids has their first experience with violence - commited by a woman ....

And so on ...
It might sound unbelievable, but this is just the other side of the coin.
My personal opinion is, that it's ridiculous to separate men and women this way. There are a lot of bad guys out there, right? And there's the same amount of really bad girls as well. AND there are a lot of nice and charming guys - just look outta your window, you might see one or two :) and -of course- there are boatloads of nice women who really earn to be treated as a princess! Don't separate men and women - that's killing families and, in the end, your own nation (Look at the birth rates since feminism appeared!!!)

Nabbing some dog hair sitting on a person's head is a bit different than touching the kid. And given that it sounds like the lady was RIGHT THERE, I think she was being overly paranoid. I mean, if she was watching actively enough to spazz about a little thing like that, than I think she was being more than attentive enough to notice if something, y'know, actually dangerous was happening.

Look, we can "what if" a case like this to death, I have no idea if she was looking right at the whole situation, or turned around to see someone that she didn't realize was there reach out towards her kid. Yes, she overreacted. All I'm saying is that, as a parent of little kids, I can understand where that comes from, like it or not.

It was only my hope to help some people here understand that they shouldn't take it personally, that's all. Most of the parents I know are going to try to keep a situation from becoming actually dangerous by stopping it immediately, rather than seeing how far it goes. You trust your gut instinct, and sometimes you are wrong and embarrass yourself. Life goes on.

It's very interesting that, as soon as a woman fails or over-reacts, they blame their instincts, but on the other hand, men has to control their instincts more and more and never can refer to it. Allright, the fuelling station story has nothing to do with failure but with over-reaction. It's a harmless incident in the end, but I can imagine how the guy must have felt ... misjudged! But when it comes to other cases, one can see what this so called Political "Correctness" and "Gender Mainstreaming" is all about: It's about favouring women and damnify men - global.


You seem to think that only a woman would be suspicious in a situation like this. Maybe it's beacuse my circle of friends includes several people in our local child protective services division or the abused person's unit, but I know many men who would similarly eye a situation like that with suspicion.

And, seriously, anyone can pull a field study off the web that says just about anything. At least link to your sources if you're going to pull that kind of stat war.

Are all men evil?

Well, I know for a fact that I am.

But I'm "evil overlord" evil, like Palpatine or Sauron, not "child abuser" evil.

Let's face it; we're all chauvinistic macho pigs, and we think with our penis, but for the overwhelming majority of us thinking with our penis doesn't involve children *shudders*.

Yes, because of course we all know you can just tell who the pedophiles are by looking at them. It’s only the skeevy looking people who will hurt your child, not the friendly grandfatherly type. :rolleyes:

Look, statistically, most pedophiles are known to the victims family and groom their victims over a length of time, they usually aren’t strangers who reach over to cop a feel. That said, we teach our kids that strangers shouldn’t be touching them, period. If you don’t like that, well, that’s just too damn bad. I thank people who compliment my kids all the time. There’s never been any touching involved.

The fact that you are getting so bent out of shape over this is a bit odd. I think it’s fairly common knowledge that we have to teach our kids about personal space in a way we didn’t even 30 years ago. Is this really infringing on your right to wander around reaching out as if you’re going to touch little kids that don’t know you? I suspect not. If you genuinely think that parental reactions such as these are truly paranoid, then to take it personally is mighty foolish.
You're entitled to your own opinions. It's a free Country.

Look, we can "what if" a case like this to death, I have no idea if she was looking right at the whole situation, or turned around to see someone that she didn't realize was there reach out towards her kid. Yes, she overreacted. All I'm saying is that, as a parent of little kids, I can understand where that comes from, like it or not.

It was only my hope to help some people here understand that they shouldn't take it personally, that's all. Most of the parents I know are going to try to keep a situation from becoming actually dangerous by stopping it immediately, rather than seeing how far it goes. You trust your gut instinct, and sometimes you are wrong and embarrass yourself. Life goes on.
She didn't embarass herself, she embarassed ME! As a matter of fact, that was several months ago, and it still rankels! :mad:

She didn't embarass herself, she embarassed ME! As a matter of fact, that was several months ago, and it still rankels! :mad:

That's fairly apparent. :D

Like I said, life goes on. Hanging on to or letting go of someone else's reactions (or even overreactions) is your choice.

That's fairly apparent. :D

Like I said, life goes on. Hanging on to or letting go of someone else's reactions (or even overreactions) is your choice.
Oh? Ok then. I choose to hang onto this one. And the next time something like that happens, I'm not going to be the one embarassed! :mad:

Oh? Ok then. I choose to hang onto this one. And the next time something like that happens, I'm not going to be the one embarassed! :mad:

lol... what are you going to do? yell "what's your freakin' problem lady, do i look like a pedophile?" that's really not going to win you bonus points with any onlookers.

You seem to think that only a woman would be suspicious in a situation like this. Maybe it's beacuse my circle of friends includes several people in our local child protective services division or the abused person's unit, but I know many men who would similarly eye a situation like that with suspicion.

And, seriously, anyone can pull a field study off the web that says just about anything. At least link to your sources if you're going to pull that kind of stat war.

Hi Korarchaeota,
it appears to me that you misunderstood the intention of my posting.
My posting was not about starting a stat war, my intention was what I stated
at the end of my first post in this thread: There are bad guys AND bad ladies,
don't put the blame on one gender - that's ridiculous! Of course there are men who'd have showed the same reaction at the petrol station but this is not my point!
I'm TOTALLY against this separation dellusion, I do not have problems with males or females and I'm fine with it. I'm not criticizing women but I'm criticizing feminism which is, in the end, bad for both genders: men and women! Think about that!

And, concerning the links that you are asking for ... I could give you dozens of it, but they are not in English, mostly. Most of them are in German, but I'll post some of them anyway, maybe you can figure it out.

On the other hand, posting links about this item would suggest that I do want to start a stat war - No, no, no - I don't want to! Again:
I have NO problems with any gender I DO have problems with morons of any kind - if male, if female.
I hope I could allegorize my intention a bit better :)


Some links:

German:
http://www.maennerberatung.de/frauengewalt-gegen-jungen.htm
http://www.wertvoll-medien.de/reports/frauengewalt.html
http://www.gabnet.com/lit/demoh4.htm

English:
http://www.gabnet.com/lit/deich3e.htm
http://www.menweb.org/throop/media/commentary/wardead.html
http://www.harrysnews.com/pgmen.htm

Just browse these pages, there should be links to statistics as well ...
After I'm not going to write a book about how bad women are and (again) I do not want to start any gender war, I do not have the exact links to these mentioned statistics right now. I'd have to look for them in my folders, which would take a little time, that I do not have right now, because I'm dating one of these wicked ladies in one hour :D
But if the thread is still alive tomorrow and you really want to force me to give you these links, I'll have an intensive look and I'll post them then for you.:)
Ah, and by the way if you might have never heard about Valerie Solanas, you should check out her mental crap, then you might understand my aversness to feminism (NOT women!!!!!!)

Cheers!

I hate this profiling crap.
Most Al-queda members are muslim. Is it alright to allege that all muslims are potential al-queida members?
African Americans have a higher persentage of criminals(at least in prison) than most other groups of people. Is it alright to assume that all African Americans are potential criminals?
All KKK members are white. Is it alright if we assume that all white people are potential klansmen?
My point is that the profiling is retarded. There was an incident in this one college(forgot when and which one) where a group of girls randomly chose pictures of guys to put on this poster they circulated. They called the boys "potential rapists". Of course, the boys sued. Being labled a potential rapist really lowers the number of jobs you can have. Political correctness has gone too far. Stop the beast, please.

I hate this profiling crap.
Most Al-queda members are muslim. Is it alright to allege that all muslims are potential al-queida members?
African Americans have a higher persentage of criminals(at least in prison) than most other groups of people. Is it alright to assume that all African Americans are potential criminals?
All KKK members are white. Is it alright if we assume that all white people are potential klansmen?
My point is that the profiling is retarded. There was an incident in this one college(forgot when and which one) where a group of girls randomly chose pictures of guys to put on this poster they circulated. They called the boys "potential rapists". Of course, the boys sued. Being labled a potential rapist really lowers the number of jobs you can have. Political correctness has gone too far. Stop the beast, please.

Seconded!
And, at least you just needed four words to say what I wanted to:
Stop the beast, please!

Well, that may be the difference between a native speaker and a wannabe like me :-/

Great post!

Hi Korarchaeota,
it appears to me that you misunderstood the intention of my posting.
My posting was not about starting a stat war, my intention was what I stated
at the end of my first post in this thread: There are bad guys AND bad ladies,
don't put the blame on one gender - that's ridiculous! Of course there are men who'd have showed the same reaction at the petrol station but this is not my point!
I'm TOTALLY against this separation dellusion, I do not have problems with males or females and I'm fine with it. I'm not criticizing women but I'm criticizing feminism which is, in the end, bad for both genders: men and women! Think about that!

And, concerning the links that you are asking for ... I could give you dozens of it, but they are not in English, mostly. Most of them are in German, but I'll post some of them anyway, maybe you can figure it out.

On the other hand, posting links about this item would suggest that I do want to start a stat war - No, no, no - I don't want to! Again:
I have NO problems with any gender I DO have problems with morons of any kind - if male, if female.
I hope I could allegorize my intention a bit better :)


Some links:

German:
http://www.maennerberatung.de/frauengewalt-gegen-jungen.htm
http://www.wertvoll-medien.de/reports/frauengewalt.html
http://www.gabnet.com/lit/demoh4.htm

English:
http://www.gabnet.com/lit/deich3e.htm
http://www.menweb.org/throop/media/commentary/wardead.html
http://www.harrysnews.com/pgmen.htm

Just browse these pages, there should be links to statistics as well ...
After I'm not going to write a book about how bad women are and (again) I do not want to start any gender war, I do not have the exact links to these mentioned statistics right now. I'd have to look for them in my folders, which would take a little time, that I do not have right now, because I'm dating one of these wicked ladies in one hour :D
But if the thread is still alive tomorrow and you really want to force me to give you these links, I'll have an intensive look and I'll post them then for you.:)
Ah, and by the way if you might have never heard about Valerie Solanas, you should check out her mental crap, then you might understand my aversness to feminism (NOT women!!!!!!)

Cheers!


Those women in the first English link, have real problems, makes me glad my girlfriend doesn't belong to them, I don't want her to stab my groin with a ballpoint pen so the poisonous fluids can spill to the floor :eek:

Those women in the first English link, have real problems, makes me glad my girlfriend doesn't belong to them, I don't want her to stab my groin with a ballpoint pen so the poisonous fluids can spill to the floor :eek:

Well ... welcome to the sprit of feminism ....
and now I really have to leave otherwise the holy might of feminism will hit me already this evening :eek:
But, as you say, you have a girlfriend so you can figure out the difference between real life and bigotry ...

If I ever meet one of those women, who want to either enslave me, put me in a gas chamber and scream there superiority, I will kick them hard and call them a Nazi :mad: , because lookin at them replace the word man with Jew and you see it is not as funny as it sounds.
Me want to keep my poisonious fluids a long time, not die in a gas chamber, be enslaved, or be forced to commit suicide :rolleyes:

And people wonder why femenism isn't more popular. The loudest ones are the worst. The good ones tend to stay quiet while the bad ones yell and scream.
Femenism is going from pro-woman's rights to anti-men. I blame those trying to be as liberal as possible. Come on. Just because the right doesn't hate men doesn't mean you should. There's no shame in being conservative or moderate. Heck, even mild liberalism is okay.
PC has gone downhill recently. It went from freeing minorities from oppression(women don't count as a minority. In fact, they outnumber men a bit) to oppressing the majority. If all men are evil, then so are all women. Simple as that.

Being a misanthrope, I believe everyone, male or female, from whatever creed or culture, has an inherent tendency towards behaving in a disgraceful and disreputable manner. Those that don't surprise the living hell out of me.