NationStates Jolt Archive

Rice tells Europe to Keep quiet about secret flights to secret jails.
December 06, 2005

CONDOLEEZZA RICE challenged European leaders to back controversial American anti-terrorism tactics yesterday as she robustly defended the CIA’s extrajudicial seizure, transportation and interrogation of thousands of suspects.

In a defiant statement delivered before flying to Berlin, the US Secretary of State responded to European demands for explanations of secret CIA flights from EU territory by insisting that aggressive US actions had “prevented attacks in Europe” and “saved innocent lives”.

Despite the uproar in Europe over America’s “extraordinary rendition” of suspects to countries such as Afghanistan, and claims that secret CIA prisons are located in Romania and Poland, Dr Rice said that she expected American allies to co-operate and keep quiet about sensitive anti-terrorism operations.

Abandoning the emollient tone that she has adopted towards Europe during her 11 months in office, she pointedly reminded European governments that they had helped the US for years in a “lawful” policy of rendition — the removal of suspects to third countries for interrogation.
...
While Dr Rice denied that the CIA used torture, she refused to address the allegations of covert prisons that have caused consternation across Europe and not least in Romania, where she is due today.
...
She added: “The US has fully respected the sovereignty of other countries that have cooperated in these matters. The US is a country of laws. The US must protect its citizens.”

But by suggesting that whatever the US has done has had the co-operation of its European allies, Dr Rice risked piling extra pressure on governments to explain whether they had violated international laws.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,171-1905660,00.html

Hmm, secret prisons you say?

It is about time our spooks started doing their job. Hats off to them for their initiative, but they need to be a bit more secretive. We shouldn't even know about this. At least they are trying. Here's to the return of the glory days of the corporation!

She added: “The US has fully respected the sovereignty of other countries that have cooperated in these matters. The US is a country of laws. The US must protect its citizens.”
Delusions of grandeur.

Rice tells Europe to Keep quiet about secret flights to secret jails.
December 06, 2005

CONDOLEEZZA RICE challenged European leaders to back controversial American anti-terrorism tactics yesterday as she robustly defended the CIA’s extrajudicial seizure, transportation and interrogation of thousands of suspects.

In a defiant statement delivered before flying to Berlin, the US Secretary of State responded to European demands for explanations of secret CIA flights from EU territory by insisting that aggressive US actions had “prevented attacks in Europe” and “saved innocent lives”.

Despite the uproar in Europe over America’s “extraordinary rendition” of suspects to countries such as Afghanistan, and claims that secret CIA prisons are located in Romania and Poland, Dr Rice said that she expected American allies to co-operate and keep quiet about sensitive anti-terrorism operations.

Abandoning the emollient tone that she has adopted towards Europe during her 11 months in office, she pointedly reminded European governments that they had helped the US for years in a “lawful” policy of rendition — the removal of suspects to third countries for interrogation.
...
While Dr Rice denied that the CIA used torture, she refused to address the allegations of covert prisons that have caused consternation across Europe and not least in Romania, where she is due today.
...
She added: “The US has fully respected the sovereignty of other countries that have cooperated in these matters. The US is a country of laws. The US must protect its citizens.”

But by suggesting that whatever the US has done has had the co-operation of its European allies, Dr Rice risked piling extra pressure on governments to explain whether they had violated international laws.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,171-1905660,00.html

Could you cite the exact sentence where she says "shut up" or "be quiet"?

Delusions of grandeur.

No... just deluded

Its not like we've never had secret camps in Eastern Europe before. The US is just following a trend.

Could you cite the exact sentence where she says "shut up" or "be quiet"?

"Dr Rice said that she expected American allies to co-operate and keep quiet about sensitive anti-terrorism operations"

No... just deluded
No...just retarded...conniving...lying...you get the picture.

Could you cite the exact sentence where she says "shut up" or "be quiet"?Its on the headline too...

Wasn't a thread to this effect done just yesterday? Why yes, it was :eek: :rolleyes: Why not have simply posted this stuff there?

These jails aren't exactly a well-kept secret. I mean, they've been in and out of the news for months. It's just that nobody can/will do anything about them. Good stuff. :rolleyes:

Wasn't a thread to this effect done just yesterday? Why yes, it was :eek: :rolleyes: Why not have simply posted this stuff there?a thread about Rice telling Europe to "be quiet" ???

I missed it.

Its on the headline too...

So.. the headline is at odds with the facts, yes? Looks that way.. kinda makes you question the source.

hm... guess these secret prisons aren't so secret anymore.

Europe knew.

They just didn't give a shit.

a thread about Rice telling Europe to "be quiet" ???

I missed it.
Neu Leonstein started it. It has to do with the EU's stance towards Condoleeza's statements.

So.. the headline is at odds with the facts, yes? Looks that way.. kinda makes you question the source.
No. It doesn't.

It's clearly indicated in the article. Guess you couldn't be bothered.

Wasn't a thread to this effect done just yesterday? Why yes, it was :eek: :rolleyes: Why not have simply posted this stuff there?
'Secret Jails'... mildly funny for some reason. Maybe this (well, not NS, obviously) will stop the 'secret jails' from frolicking in our airspace and back yards (like that will happen... I forgot Poland)...

No. It doesn't.

It's clearly indicated in the article. Guess you couldn't be bothered.

Naw, I read it.

Hmm, secret prisons you say?

It is about time our spooks started doing their job. Hats off to them for their initiative, but they need to be a bit more secretive. We shouldn't even know about this. At least they are trying. Here's to the return of the glory days of the corporation!


well i dont know about all the glory day stuff...allthough we did win the coldwar and reunite germany,and free up mad amounts of budgets in europe,not having to spend a ton of their gnp on defence.which ironically,is now being spent on social welfare programs that subsidize some(miniscule amount i admit)terrorists that hate them.
kinda like our open border thing in america...99.9 % of the illegal aliens just want to make money,i worry about the last percent.

my hope is they come here as islamofascists,then hang out with us cowboy/hayseeds/hillbillies and do a few gogo bars,and magically....realize we aint so bad after all!

always nice to dream..me i want to hit the lottery.:)

Naw, I read it. read it again...without your neocon glasses this time ;)

read it again...without your neocon glasses this time ;)

Paleocon contact lenses, actually..If I had to choose a label. :p

well i dont know about all the glory day stuff...allthough we did win the coldwar and reunite germany,and free up mad amounts of budgets in europe,not having to spend a ton of their gnp on defence.which ironically,is now being spent on social welfare programs that subsidize some(miniscule amount i admit)terrorists that hate them.

Oh don't worry, Europeans just think of all that as 'payback' for helping you found your country ;)

The USA sees itself as the master of the world so why wouldn't Rice say something like that?

Paleocon contact lenses, actually..If I had to choose a label. :pLOL

good reply :D

Considering that I saw her on the news yesterday discussing the secret jails.... I would think it of little sense to order allies to be quiet about them.... ;)

Especially since the US media has been trumpeting about them so long they are hardly secret.

The USA sees itself as the master of the world so why wouldn't Rice say something like that?

If we did see ourselves as masters of the world, why say this:

"Dr Rice said: “It is up to those governments and their citizens to decide if they wish to work with us to prevent terrorist attacks against their own or other countries and decide how much information they can make public. They have a sovereign right to make that choice.”

Debate between democracies was healthy, she said, adding: “I hope that debate also includes a healthy regard for the responsibilities of government to protect their citizens.”"

Doesn't sound like she believes she can order Europe around on a whim.. sounds like basic diplomacy, an exchange of diplomatic favors..

If we did see ourselves as masters of the world, why say this:

"Dr Rice said: “It is up to those governments and their citizens to decide if they wish to work with us to prevent terrorist attacks against their own or other countries and decide how much information they can make public. They have a sovereign right to make that choice.”

Debate between democracies was healthy, she said, adding: “I hope that debate also includes a healthy regard for the responsibilities of government to protect their citizens.”"

Doesn't sound like she believes she can order Europe around on a whim.. sounds like basic diplomacy, an exchange of diplomatic favors..

Simple PR. If we really wanted to include Europe on major decisions then we would have waited on Iraq. It is an old issue but it is an excellent example of ignoring European wishes. Bush's various statements of the "world united behind the US" is just inaccurate. While we cannot be handicapped by foreign opinions simply ignoring them is just not smart.

Simple PR. If we really wanted to include Europe on major decisions then we would have waited on Iraq. It is an old issue but it is an excellent example of ignoring European wishes. Bush's various statements of the "world united behind the US" is just inaccurate. While we cannot be handicapped by foreign opinions simply ignoring them is just not smart.

Sure, there's a PR angle, but any "secret" prisons in Eastern Europe exist at the discretion of those host countries. If Rice wants to convince those countries that keeping prisons there serves a purpose, that's her mission.. but she can't force compliance if she fails to make a deal.

See, the real trick is just pretending to uphold the justice system. Arrest some black people and white trash on rudimentary drug or minor assault charges, and put them away for ten years. Then you can steal ten million dollars and only have to worry about a slap on the hand and a wagging finger with its owner saying "Naughty!"

...but any "secret" prisons in Eastern Europe exist at the discretion of those host countries...

Maybe, maybe not. It doesn't necessarily have to be big prison camps. It can just be a small warehouse or building down by the docks which have 2/3 guys that kick the shit out of the detainee.

my hope is they come here as islamofascists,then hang out with us cowboy/hayseeds/hillbillies and do a few gogo bars,and magically....realize we aint so bad after all!


If anything could inspire someone to build a dirty bomb it would be to hang out with "hayseeds" :eek: haha

Sure, there's a PR angle, but any "secret" prisons in Eastern Europe exist at the discretion of those host countries. If Rice wants to convince those countries that keeping prisons there serves a purpose, that's her mission.. but she can't force compliance if she fails to make a deal.

Eastern Europe doesn't exactly have the civil rights of western Europe. It Is WESTERN Europe making the stink right? A few secret prisons would be up the alley of those former Soviet countries.

Eastern Europe doesn't exactly have the civil rights of western Europe. It Is WESTERN Europe making the stink right? A few secret prisons would be up the alley of those former Soviet countries.
Up the alley of their rulers, not their people. Countries like Belarus are a nightmare due to the low level of democracy.

Simple PR. If we really wanted to include Europe on major decisions then we would have waited on Iraq. It is an old issue but it is an excellent example of ignoring European wishes. Bush's various statements of the "world united behind the US" is just inaccurate. While we cannot be handicapped by foreign opinions simply ignoring them is just not smart.

i dissagree....old europe would never go with us on bush2...because they were making money and wanted to keep the status quo...but i may be wrong...
they went the first go round,and saddam was even in far more breaches of contract(with the un and europe and us)the second time around.

go figure...nobody ever considers the influence of money?

Rice tells Europe to Keep quiet about secret flights to secret jails.
December 06, 2005

CONDOLEEZZA RICE challenged European leaders to back controversial American anti-terrorism tactics yesterday as she robustly defended the CIA’s extrajudicial seizure, transportation and interrogation of thousands of suspects.

In a defiant statement delivered before flying to Berlin, the US Secretary of State responded to European demands for explanations of secret CIA flights from EU territory by insisting that aggressive US actions had “prevented attacks in Europe” and “saved innocent lives”.

Despite the uproar in Europe over America’s “extraordinary rendition” of suspects to countries such as Afghanistan, and claims that secret CIA prisons are located in Romania and Poland, Dr Rice said that she expected American allies to co-operate and keep quiet about sensitive anti-terrorism operations.

Abandoning the emollient tone that she has adopted towards Europe during her 11 months in office, she pointedly reminded European governments that they had helped the US for years in a “lawful” policy of rendition — the removal of suspects to third countries for interrogation.
...
While Dr Rice denied that the CIA used torture, she refused to address the allegations of covert prisons that have caused consternation across Europe and not least in Romania, where she is due today.
...
She added: “The US has fully respected the sovereignty of other countries that have cooperated in these matters. The US is a country of laws. The US must protect its citizens.”

But by suggesting that whatever the US has done has had the co-operation of its European allies, Dr Rice risked piling extra pressure on governments to explain whether they had violated international laws.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,171-1905660,00.html
The following are actual quotes by Condoleeza Rice in the article:


Dr Rice said: “It is up to those governments and their citizens to decide if they wish to work with us to prevent terrorist attacks against their own or other countries and decide how much information they can make public. They have a sovereign right to make that choice.”

Where does she say she wants allies to "keep quiet" or "shut up" unless they want to? She explicitly states that they have the right to make up their own damn minds about how much they want to say.

Debate between democracies was healthy, she said, adding: “I hope that debate also includes a healthy regard for the responsibilities of government to protect their citizens.”

Again, no "keep quiet" or "shut up" clauses here.

Dr Rice said: “We cannot discuss information that would compromise intelligence, law enforcement and military operations. We expect other nations share this view.”

Again, not seeing "keep quiet" or "shut up". She says (rightfully) that she doesn't have to tell the EU **** all about what America is doing, nor do other countries unless they want to.

“All European countries share the determination expressed by the US to protect our citizens from the threat of terrorism, while operating within international law,” he said.


Still not seeing it.

In her detailed response to the EU request for an explanation, Dr Rice said that the US “will use every lawful weapon to defeat these terrorists”.

Still not seeing it.

“Renditions take terrorists out of action . . . Such renditions are permissible under international law,” Dr Rice declared.

Still not seeing it.

“The US does not use the airspace or airport of any country for the purpose of transporting a detainee when we believe he or she will be tortured.

Lies, but still not seeing it.

“With respect to detainees, the US complies with its laws, its Constitution and its treaty obligations.”

Still not seeing it.

Terrorists were sometimes captured far from their homes and had information that could save thousands of lives. “We must bring terrorists to justice wherever possible.”


Still not seeing it.

She added: “The US has fully respected the sovereignty of other countries that have cooperated in these matters. The US is a country of laws. The US must protect its citizens.”

Still not seeing it.

So, if you could point out in which of those actual quotes America is telling Europe to "shut up" or telling its allies to "keep quiet" if they don't want to, I'd be much appreciative. The wording of the article is clearly biased, and I'm not seeing it supported at all by what Condoleeza Rice actually said. I'm not saying I trust the American administration's honesty, but let's not say they said things when they really didn't.

Dr Rice said that she expected American allies to co-operate and keep quiet about sensitive anti-terrorism operations.
Still not seeing it?

Good one Yathura.

i dissagree....old europe would never go with us on bush2...because they were making money and wanted to keep the status quo...but i may be wrong...
they went the first go round,and saddam was even in far more breaches of contract(with the un and europe and us)the second time around.

go figure...nobody ever considers the influence of money?

I'd like to think that they are sick of wars. France especially seemed to have a knack for being drawn into conflicts causing massive casualties on their soldiers. Money could have been an issue also but it seems alot reasonable to believe that Bush had no PROOF that Saddam had WMD's so they wouldn't support invasion. Not that any of that mattered of course as the troops started going over there it was inevitable what would happen.

See, the real trick is just pretending to uphold the justice system. Arrest some black people and white trash on rudimentary drug or minor assault charges, and put them away for ten years. Then you can steal ten million dollars and only have to worry about a slap on the hand and a wagging finger with its owner saying "Naughty!"

in cant agree stronger.....i was arrested for aggravated assualt on a cop...felony eluding...felony resisting...and a few more...and if i was white trash or black and poor...i would be doing 5 to 10....but i gave someone 12,000.00 and i got 1 year unsupervised probation!
if i was black or poor white trash..i would be pissed...all the justice you can afford.
but am i complaining..hell no..the cops put me in the hospital,so i deserved a walk,i just feel sorry for the guy that aint got money.

proves my point..money makes the world go round,unless your a jihadist...lol

but your right,some old ass rich scumbag can steal millions from a widow...slap on the wrist...some ghetto kid gets caught with weed...go to jail...lesson here...don't be poor.

not that i agree with jihadists but our system is stupid corrupt.

dont get offended please!!!!!

i just thought this was funny i heard the other day...have a merry christmas and a happy jihad

Whilst I utterly condemn torture I do find it kind've amusing that most of the current controversy over the issue is coming from the political left who didn't seem so concerned when these Soviet-style prisons were being set up in the first place.

Whilst I utterly condemn torture I do find it kind've amusing that most of the current controversy over the issue is coming from the political left who didn't seem so concerned when these prisons were being set up in the first place.
It was the government, and if you look carefully at the media in the countries concerned (for example in Germany (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,388852,00.html) - check also out the other stories (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international) there), you'll see what kind of controversy this is.
America has "lost the battle for the hearts and minds in Europe" a while ago. The outrage now targets the governments that went along with it.

Still not seeing it?
That's THE JOURNALIST'S OWN WORDS, not Rice's. Learn some critical reading skills. I only looked at what they actually quoted her saying, not words that some biased journalist put in her mouth.

Don't you guys think that it's time to stop calling something a "secret" when it's being discussed on a web forum? I mean really, that is a pretty strong indicator that the secret isn't exactly well kept. :p

That's THE JOURNALIST'S OWN WORDS, not Rice's. Learn some critical reading skills. I only looked at what they actually quoted her saying, not words that some biased journalist put in her mouth.
Here's the full text from the State Department.
http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2005/57602.htm

And this is an interview she gave to German TV:
http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2005/57670.htm

dp

http://www.caglecartoons.com/images/preview/%7BA4383522-565D-4993-9AF0-E470532CA50F%7D.gif

Uncle Sam looks an awful lot like Fester from the Adam's Family. Hmm, I wonder if there is a relation.

That's THE JOURNALIST'S OWN WORDS, not Rice's. .The Times clearly states that Rice said that...its in Black & White

So if you think they are lying...you should raise hell...Sue them or something...

<<< here let me help you :D

The Times
Times House,
1 Pennington Street,
London,
E98 1TT
Tel: 00 44(0)20 7782 5971
Email: pressoffice@thetimes.co.uk

Care to re-post that, just in case he didn't get it the second time? :p

Uncle Sam looks an awful lot like Fester from the Adam's Family. Hmm, I wonder if there is a relation.LOL...actually he does..

Next time you start a thread, copying and pasting an article without making any commentary on it is not a good thing to do. I'm locking this.