NationStates Jolt Archive

I found this word on the internet and can't quite understand its meaning, perhaps a NS user knows. I would be very gratefull if you can tell me what it is.

I found this word on the internet and can't quite understand its meaning, perhaps a NS user knows. I would be very gratefull if you can tell me what it is.

my google fu, tells me it is a Alchemist teaching college following a gnostic sort of thing

http://www.thelema.net/would be a good starting point

The law of thelema is DO WHAT THOU WILT SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW from Alistair Crowley.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/7069/abbey2.html contains pictures of the abbey of thelema. It's where Crowley did all his crazy magic mumbo jumbo.

Is it dark magic or white magic?

Sounds like Nietzscheanism but with magic.

[ shudders, buys a crucifix, and says ten thousand Hail Marys! ] :eek:

Now, don't get me wrong I like to learn, i'm not a satanist or nothing that's uncommon, what happens is: this subject caught my attention and i've been investigating and sounds like white magic, but with some dark elements, i will not deny it i want to learn everything i can about these things. (among others..)

*puts on prospector's hat*
I smell gold in that thar website!

Thelema is the greek word for Will. Numerologically, it's value is 93. The Greek word for Love (Agape) also has a value of 93. The law of Thelema is expressed in three phrases:
"Do what thou Wil shall be the whole of the Law"
"Love is the law, love under Will"
"There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt"

If you're still interested, a copy of Liber Al Vel Legis (The book of the Law) can be found here: http://www.sacred-texts.com/oto/engccxx.htm

Is it dark magic or white magic?
Well, considering that Crowley was labeled "the wickedest man on earth" and bragged (probably falsely) about sacrificing children, I'd say white.

Now, don't get me wrong I like to learn, i'm not a satanist or nothing that's uncommon, what happens is: this subject caught my attention and i've been investigating and sounds like white magic, but with some dark elements, i will not deny it i want to learn everything i can about these things. (among others..)

Well, getting into Crowley isn't exactly an easy thing. Theres alot to read, it's fairly dense, it definately isn't warm and fuzzy, and there isn't much of a distinction between black or white magic. Beyond that, any interest in western ceremonialism is going to earn you the derision of many people, and getting involved in Crowley is going to earn you even more. If you're interested, read the Book of the Law, then go and see if you can find yourself a copy of Magick (Book 4 parts I-IV), it'll be the big blue 900 page hardcover monster. If you're interested in something a bit less daunting, Lon Milo DuQuette has a more accessable introductory text called "The Magick of Aleister Crowley: A Handbook of the Rituas of Thelema" ( http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1578632994/qid=1133886150/sr=8-2/ref=pd_bbs_2/103-9284401-4870234?n=507846&s=books&v=glance ).

Thanks for the pointers Sutured - I recently discovered all of this too (through the Disinformation stuff) :)

Well, considering that Crowley was labeled "the wickedest man on earth" and bragged (probably falsely) about sacrificing children, I'd say white.

I was a bit put off by that, and did some research. As far as I can gather, he was being sardonic about 'sacrificing children', and later issued a complete retraction. Also, the very idea goes against the Thelemic value of Will. Crowley was labelled "the wickedest man on earth" after somebody drowned at a retreat he owned, but it was accidental.

How anyone could ask for the definition of a word while sitting in front of an online computer, I'll never understand.

The study of magic? Fine for cultural research, but that's about all; I hope you're not taking it seriously as a thing itself, though! :p

Thanks for the pointers Sutured - I recently discovered all of this too (through the Disinformation stuff) :)



I was a bit put off by that, and did some research. As far as I can gather, he was being sardonic about 'sacrificing children', and later issued a complete retraction. Also, the very idea goes against the Thelemic value of Will. Crowley was labelled "the wickedest man on earth" after somebody drowned at a retreat he owned, but it was accidental.

Welcome. The bit about sacrificing children stems from a combination of people being unable to understand symbolism, and Crowley's knack for both sarcasm and intentional shock. The "Wickedest Man Alive" comes from alot more than an accidental drowning, though. I mean, lets be honest, Crowley was a libertine, a pan-sexual, a big fan of drugs (for awhile), and he enjoyed playing the villain. He liked making people angry, he liked playing to people's fears, he liked making those around him uncomfortable. He chose the title Mega Therion, after all.
;)

Welcome. The bit about sacrificing children stems from a combination of people being unable to understand symbolism, and Crowley's knack for both sarcasm and intentional shock. The "Wickedest Man Alive" comes from alot more than an accidental drowning, though. I mean, lets be honest, Crowley was a libertine, a pan-sexual, a big fan of drugs (for awhile), and he enjoyed playing the villain. He liked making people angry, he liked playing to people's fears, he liked making those around him uncomfortable. He chose the title Mega Therion, after all.
;)

So... he was an attention seeking boorish bore?

Elgesh']So... he was an attention seeking boorish bore?
He was the Marilyn Manson of his time. In fact, on the album "Portrait of an American Family" Manson makes reference to the abbey of thelema. He also refers to Charlie and the Chocolate factory.

He was the Marilyn Manson of his time.

Thank you, I rest my case :p

He was the Marilyn Manson of his time. In fact, on the album "Portrait of an American Family" Manson makes reference to the abbey of thelema. He also refers to Charlie and the Chocolate factory.

And the Beatles were going to put him on the cover of Sgt. Peppers twice, but one of the pictures looked too much like Paul McCartney. So they only had one :)

And true Sutured - I guess not much changes with the media here in the UK ;)

Elgesh']So... he was an attention seeking boorish bore?

Attention seeking and boorish, yes, a bore, no. Crowley knew how to garner publicity, he knew how to use other's outrage to advance himself and his agenda, he knew that he'd get a better reception if people knew his name. Beyond that, he was one of those people who genuinely thought that anyone who would be rude as to intrude upon his life deserved to be used as entertainment. *shrugs*

He was the Marilyn Manson of his time. In fact, on the album "Portrait of an American Family" Manson makes reference to the abbey of thelema. He also refers to Charlie and the Chocolate factory.


Thats a good enough picture. Although Manson always seemed more like his schmuck-of-a-role-model LaVey to me than Crowley.

Funny, I always thought Thelema was the Greek word for Dilemma.

Thelema was the fat bespectacled chick off Scooby Doo.

I'd take Crowley's occult powers a lot more seriously if he hadn't died in penury, to be honest: in that respect, Anton LaVey has to be taken a lot more seriously.

Thelema was the fat bespectacled chick off Scooby Doo.

I'd take Crowley's occult powers a lot more seriously if he hadn't died in penury, to be honest: in that respect, Anton LaVey has to be taken a lot more seriously.
He looked more Eeeeevil too.

LaVey

http://www.satanicrituals.com/webphotos/lavey.jpg

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Crowley

http://andersonstudio.homestead.com/files/crowley01.gif


Plus LaVey banged both Marilyn Monroe and Jayne Mansfield.

Plus LaVey banged both Marilyn Monroe and Jayne Mansfield.
Quite: Helena Blavatsky got more rich crumpet in the 'thirties than Crowley ever managed.

I've read the book of the law, and it's somehow strange, I don't understand it at all, it talks about, prophets, desire, incense.....

Aside from that Alasdair Crowley crap (to which it was unlikely inspiration), it is an abbey in the books of Rabelais.

Do as thou wilt? Well sounds more like dark magic then white magic considering it sounds like it is saying do whatever you want. Most evil men don't do things for the sake of being evil, but just do things because they have the impulse to do them.

As a Christian I stay away from both white and dark magic. I think most of it is fake, but from what I interpret from the Bible it seems to be saying there is a real element to magic, but that it's dangerous and to stay away. That either it is all dark or that its impossible to fully distinguish the dark from the white. Besides Christianity teaches we can do things through God, so we don't need to call upon other things, we can just ask God to do miraculous things. All that's sort of off topic, but thats what came to mind when I read this thread.