NationStates Jolt Archive


CIA Mystery Planes Land In Canada: Article

Dobbsworld
06-12-2005, 03:50
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20051205/CIA05/TPInternational


Seven mystery planes landed in Canada

By JIM BRONSKILL

Monday, December 5, 2005 Page A10

Canadian Press

OTTAWA -- A mysterious Twin Otter plane owned by an alleged CIA front turned up in Northern Ontario this fall, raising unanswered questions about why it was there.

It's the latest twist in a perplexing saga of aircraft controlled by apparent shell companies of the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency.

Flight data obtained by The Canadian Press indicate the DeHavilland DHC-6-300 aircraft landed in Sault Ste. Marie, Ont., in early October after taking off from Michigan's Jackson County Airport.

From there, the 22-seat turboprop made the short trip to another airport just southwest of the hamlet of Bar River, Ont. A Bar River airport official said that out of respect for customers' privacy, he would not discuss planes that use the facility.

"I suggest you don't pursue this any further," said the official, who asked not to be named. "I have no knowledge of any CIA aircraft."

Planes that stop in Bar River generally do so for refuelling or maintenance, he added.

The airport is home to a company that specializes in work on DeHavilland aircraft. There is no record of the plane leaving Bar River.

The alleged CIA Twin Otter had flown to Jackson, Mich., from Johnston County Airport in Smithfield, N.C., a facility singled out by the New York Times as a hub for covert American air operations.

U.S. Federal Aviation Administration records show the aircraft, with tail number N6161Q, is registered to Aviation Specialties, Inc., one of seven firms identified by the Times as having CIA connections.

The address of the difficult-to-trace company is an anonymous Washington post-office box.

The plane is among at least seven aircraft owned by alleged CIA front companies that, according to flight data, have landed at Canadian airports in the past six months, including three in Newfoundland and one in Nunavut.

Several European countries have begun investigations into charges that planes owned by the CIA landed at airstrips in their cities. Concern has focused on reports some of the planes may have been transporting terrorist suspects to foreign prisons.

A CIA spokesman declined to comment on reports of Canadian landings.

More questions than answers surround a flurry of recent allegations about CIA flights to various countries pieced together from air registries, media stories and sightings by aircraft enthusiasts documented on plane-spotting websites.

A woman who answered a phone number that appears in corporate records for Path Corp. -- a Delaware firm identified as one of the CIA shell companies -- said it was an incorrect listing.

Captions accompanying Internet photos of the N6161Q Twin Otter note the prominent antennas on its upper fuselage. The plane has reportedly been to Nevada, Afghanistan, Egypt, Iraq, Malta and an airport in Shannon, Ireland.

Last week, Irish Foreign Minister Dermot Ahern said U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice had reassured him the airport had not been used for "anything untoward."

Ms. Rice is expected to respond this week to concerns about allegations of secret CIA jails said to hold terrorism suspects in Eastern Europe.

In Canada, the Bloc Québécois has repeatedly pressed the federal government for details about the alleged CIA flights, accusing the Liberals of hiding information.

In a recent letter to Bloc MP Serge Menard, Public Safety Minister Anne McLellan said there was no credible information to support suggestions that two flights mentioned by the Bloc had been transporting terrorism suspects or otherwise engaging in illegal activities on Canadian soil.

Reports indicate dozens of CIA-linked flights may have landed in Canada during the last four years.

Zuwena Robidas, a Public Safety Department spokeswoman, said further inquiries are still under way.

The Foreign Affairs Department has said it will bring any matters of concern to Washington's attention.

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But wait, here's more:

http://www.ltvnews.com/viewarticle.php?id=4155

MP Martin on CIA Activities
Darren Taylor
LTVNews.com
Monday, December 5 2005, 3:27PM


There’s usually nothing mysterious about Twin Otter planes landing and refueling in Northern Ontario—but an October quick stop at the airport in Bar River by one such plane has raised eyebrows.

The plane’s ownership was traced to the American Central Intelligence Agency—the CIA—which has made several such plane landings across Canada in recent months.

The landing of the CIA plane in Bar River comes with several reports by European countries that agency aircraft have used airstrips in their countries—possibly to transport terrorism suspects to foreign prisons.

No one in Bar River is talking, the CIA certainly isn’t talking, and the federal government seems to have sloughed off concerns raised by opposition MPs about these landings in Canada.

And that has Sault MP Tony Martin concerned.

Martin, speaking to LTV Monday, said “the federal government needs to be concerned. Canada has a reputation for peacekeeping, our humanitarian efforts are the envy of many nations. We need to keep that reputation clean and clear.”

“The government should be asking the Americans what they’re doing, who and what they’re shipping through our country. I’ve heard that Germany is concerned about this too.”

Martin pointed to the example of Canadian citizen Maher Arar, who the Americans detained in New York and deported to Syria, suspecting he had terrorist ties. Arar spent a year there before returning to Canada, claiming he had been tortured in a Syrian jail.

“We are a sovereign nation, we don’t have to be pushed around by anybody, we have to let the Americans know what they can and can’t do, and if there is anything untoward going on, we need to be challenging that.”

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I am still spluttering over this one. How on earth can our much-ballyhooed Liberal government justify aiding and abetting human torture by allowing the transport of detainees through our sovereign airspace to parts unknown?

I damn well want to see this issue get raised during the current election campaign.

Your thoughts?
The South Islands
06-12-2005, 04:11
And so the invasion begins...
CanuckHeaven
06-12-2005, 04:20
I am still spluttering over this one. How on earth can our much-ballyhooed Liberal government justify aiding and abetting human torture by allowing the transport of detainees through our sovereign airspace to parts unknown?

I damn well want to see this issue get raised during the current election campaign.

Your thoughts?
Lets start a conspiracy? Perhaps the CIA planes are dumping lifeless cargo in the muskeg?
Lacadaemon
06-12-2005, 04:50
Well...

Captions accompanying Internet photos of the N6161Q Twin Otter note the prominent antennas on its upper fuselage. The plane has reportedly been to Nevada, Afghanistan, Egypt, Iraq, Malta and an airport in Shannon, Ireland.

Apart from the sighting in Nevada, I find the rest of those claims highly suspect.

The Twin otter is a bush plane with STOL capability developed by DeHaviland Canada in the 1960s. It's range is only around 1200 miles, max airspeed 160 kts, and service ceiling 12,500ft. They are mostly used for bush hopping/artic exploration, because of the short take off roll and the ability to handle unimproved airstrips.

It is not certified for extended overwater operation, and the incredibly low cruising speed make it completely unsuitable for intercontinental travel. (Indeed, to get an otter to Afganistan from ottawa would be a prodigious feat of endurance and navigation). Frankly, it's just not the type of aircraft that would, or could, be used to spirit detainees to "parts unknown." (Unless the parts unknown are a CIA base in artic canada, but what's the point of that? Alaska would be just as suitable).

Canada is a big centre of GA, especially for bush planes (I know someone who bought their Maule up there), I imagine the reason for it being there is probably fairly humdrum.
Dobbsworld
06-12-2005, 14:56
Before-work BUMP.
Gift-of-god
06-12-2005, 15:22
Canada is a big centre of GA, especially for bush planes (I know someone who bought their Maule up there), I imagine the reason for it being there is probably fairly humdrum.

Right. So let's find out what the humdrum reason is. If it's not a big deal, we'll simply forget about it, but if it's the CIA moving around its torture victims, Canada has a duty to stop it.
Omni Conglomerates
06-12-2005, 15:25
So why is the Times so interested in outing the covert operations of an organization that defends its right to exist? This really doesn't help things to name off the shell corporations that the CIA uses. It just means that the CIA has to make new shell companies because the old ones are useless to them now that they are outed.
Kermitoidland
06-12-2005, 15:38
The ocidental free nations (such as Canada) should take a stand considering american terrorist activities. That concerns Guantanamo, secret prisons in foreign countries, invasion of foreign nations, illegal intelligence activities concerning other nation's citizens...
I would be very fearful to be canadian, living next to the land of so many criminal terrorists and paranoid integrists, starting from their leaders. The worst is that their dark tentacles are spread all over the world...:(
Dobbsworld
07-12-2005, 02:41
Right. So let's find out what the humdrum reason is. If it's not a big deal, we'll simply forget about it, but if it's the CIA moving around its torture victims, Canada has a duty to stop it.
Quite.

And I'm rather alarmed that a) this news item seems have died a quick editorial death in the popular newsmedia, b) it doesn't appear likely that this will in fact become a campaign issue, and c) that so few of my fellow NSers, let alone Canadian NSers, are so unmoved as to not comment upon it at all, after having started this thread nearly 24 hours ago.

Or have all of you more or less consigned this to the scrapheap of supposed tinfoil-hattedness?
Pepe Dominguez
07-12-2005, 02:52
Ooh! Conspiracy!

Nah, seriously.. they were probably just bringing lunch to the spooks manning our various secret ECHELON listening posts scattered throughout Canada.. :p
Dobbsworld
07-12-2005, 02:57
I would be very fearful to be canadian, living next to the land of so many criminal terrorists and paranoid integrists, starting from their leaders. The worst is that their dark tentacles are spread all over the world...:(
I'm afraid of the tendency to slough off what ought to be ringing alarm bells in the heads of all Canadians, regardless of ideology.
Novoga
07-12-2005, 03:08
It left without taking Paul Martin? I will blow up the CIA now! What do you think about that NSA? I know you can see this......
Equus
07-12-2005, 03:25
Given that there have been credible reports for decades of American politicians, FBI agents, and CIA agents flying into northern Canada on little bush planes to do some hunting and fishing, I expect that this is more of the same. A Twin Otter can't do transoceanic flights without getting piggybacked by a 747, unless Lindbergh is piloting it.

What's weird is that Bar River residents refuse to comment.
Dobbsworld
07-12-2005, 03:28
Given that there have been credible reports for decades of American politicians, FBI agents, and CIA agents flying into northern Canada on little bush planes to do some hunting and fishing, I expect that this is more of the same. A Twin Otter can't do transoceanic flights without getting piggybacked by a 747, unless Lindbergh is piloting it.

What's weird is that Bar River residents refuse to comment.
No, what's weird is that this story has appeared in the mainstream Canadian press and yet everybody seems to be turning a blind eye to it.

Hunting and fishing, my eye.
Dobbsworld
07-12-2005, 03:39
Ooh! Conspiracy!

Nah, seriously.. they were probably just bringing lunch to the spooks manning our various secret ECHELON listening posts scattered throughout Canada.. :p
You don't need a tinfoil hat to see when someone's pulling the wool over your eyes.

You bet there's something afoot.
Lacadaemon
07-12-2005, 04:07
Quite.

And I'm rather alarmed that a) this news item seems have died a quick editorial death in the popular newsmedia, b) it doesn't appear likely that this will in fact become a campaign issue, and c) that so few of my fellow NSers, let alone Canadian NSers, are so unmoved as to not comment upon it at all, after having started this thread nearly 24 hours ago.

Or have all of you more or less consigned this to the scrapheap of supposed tinfoil-hattedness?

Did anyone bother to check if there are any airworthiness directives/manufacturers service bulletins that have been recently issued for twin otters?

The aircraft in question is 26 years old. Possibly it's up in Canada for engine recertification/replacement.

In any case, it's not very convincing to suggest that this type of aircraft is being used for "extraordinary renditions", unless there is a secret CIA camp for prisoners in the artic. (In which case there are a whole host of potential problems for the Canadian government).

Really, though, you should wait until you see some Gulfstream Vs or similar types before worrying about this sort of thing.
Equus
08-12-2005, 17:33
IF it makes you feel any better, Dobbs, both the Globe and Mail AND the National Post had articles on this story today. I have to say, I didn't realize they were investigating 55 suspicious flights.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20051207/PLANES07/TPInternational/?query=cia+canada+flights+
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=7473b897-232d-455f-be05-38fd058fbf35
Deep Kimchi
08-12-2005, 17:36
You don't need a tinfoil hat to see when someone's pulling the wool over your eyes.

You bet there's something afoot.

Paul Martin and Chretien before are both CIA mind control puppets...

we took your hockey league, and now we have your country... :rolleyes: ;)
Cluichstan
08-12-2005, 17:50
And so the invasion begins...

"We come for your backbacon."