NationStates Jolt Archive

Four years later, little has improved. Most Afghans, Peter Baker wrote recently in The Washington Post, "still grind out the subsistence lives they did under the Taliban." Women still wear the burqa. "Corruption is widespread," The Week reports. "Outside Kabul, the country functions like a group of independent fiefdoms from the Middle Ages." Ordinary Afghans "are angry at the continuing war, the widespread malnutrition, and the snail's pace of progress."

From here (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11128.htm)

This I ask to my fellow Europeans: Should we not demand our goverments more action in Afghanistan (a war started over a just cause: The Taliban shielded a known attacker of an Ally)? We messed it too, shouldnt we be sending in more troops (sinse all americans will do is say everything is fine)?

I'm not sure what could be done.

The only time Afghanistan had sufficient law and order for women to gain uni and postgrad qualifications and practice stuff like law and medicine, was during the Soviet 'dictatorship', when 1m Afghans died resisting change.

It's not going to work. Its natural state is lawless feudal country.

I'm not sure what could be done.

The only time Afghanistan had sufficient law and order for women to gain uni and postgrad qualifications and practice stuff like law and medicine, was during the Soviet 'dictatorship', when 1m Afghans died resisting change.

It's not going to work. Its natural state is lawless feudal country.

The best description for afghanistan i've ever heard was "the end of empires" (in the physical sence)..

The persian empire ended there, and so did the Chinese, Indian, Mongol empires did.. they are a bit of everything and nothing. One of those freak states, courtesy of 1890 berlin treaty... perhaps we should just leave them.

The best description for afghanistan i've ever heard was "the end of empires" (in the physical sence)..

The persian empire ended there, and so did the Chinese, Indian, Mongol empires did.. they are a bit of everything and nothing. One of those freak states, courtesy of 1890 berlin treaty... perhaps we should just leave them.

Wait, you mean the first world shouldn't run around sticking their oar in everything? You so crazy...

One of those freak states, courtesy of 1890 berlin treaty... perhaps we should just leave them.
No, you'd condemn the people who live there and who've done nothing wrong.

I am in favour of more troops, and the reconstruction effort should be better organised - right now too much money is wasted on people who just go there to get the huge danger boni.

Afghanistan deserves better than what we've given it so far.

Four years later, little has improved. Most Afghans, Peter Baker wrote recently in The Washington Post, "still grind out the subsistence lives they did under the Taliban." Women still wear the burqa. "Corruption is widespread," The Week reports. "Outside Kabul, the country functions like a group of independent fiefdoms from the Middle Ages." Ordinary Afghans "are angry at the continuing war, the widespread malnutrition, and the snail's pace of progress."

From here (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11128.htm)

This I ask to my fellow Europeans: Should we not demand our goverments more action in Afghanistan (a war started over a just cause: The Taliban shielded a known attacker of an Ally)? We messed it too, shouldnt we be sending in more troops (sinse all americans will do is say everything is fine)?
Rome was not built in a day.

Rome was not built in a day.
No, but people have been trying with Afghanistan for centuries. :D

The best description for afghanistan i've ever heard was "the end of empires" (in the physical sence)..

The persian empire ended there, and so did the Chinese, Indian, Mongol empires did.. they are a bit of everything and nothing. One of those freak states, courtesy of 1890 berlin treaty... perhaps we should just leave them.

IIRC, that's what got us the Taliban, al-Qaeda, and 9-11.

Emboldened by their success against the USSR, if we left now, they would interpret it as a victory, and be emboldened by it.

We're 21st century people fighting people who are living in the 10th century.

Our standards of what constitutes war and victory are not the same. They believe that this is war to the knife - war without end until there is only one victor alive, and the defeated are either dead or enslaved.

Emboldened by their success against the USSR, if we left now, they would interpret it as a victory, and be emboldened by it.
Who's "they"?

The Taliban in Afghanistan are negligible. The problem is that the central government simply doesn't have the reach to keep all the local warlords in check. And that's why I think we need more peacekeepers on the ground.

But a bigger problem is that the reconstruction effort has been a joke so far.

Who's "they"?

The Taliban in Afghanistan are negligible. The problem is that the central government simply doesn't have the reach to keep all the local warlords in check. And that's why I think we need more peacekeepers on the ground.

But a bigger problem is that the reconstruction effort has been a joke so far.
Secretly back a warlord until he takes control of the country, assassinate him, and put in a puppet dictator. Problem solved.

The place is a natural Wasteland, It's littered with the past remains of the Soviet war, the entire nation is a wreak. The only real government are the Warlords despite what the US wants you to think. It'a an Anarchy basicly.

On the topic of Afghanistan,

There is only one way to pacify the country. That one way is very simple: unimaginable oppression. You cannot go into a war-torn country with a smile on your face and sugar coating everything. You must completely destroy the country and start from scratch. It worked for General Sherman in the American Civil War, it worked for the allied forces in World War 2, and it worked for the North Vietnamese during the conflict in Vietnam. Scorched Earth, Total War, Infrastructure Disruption Warfare, whatever you want to call it, this is the way to win an invasion of a nation in such a hostile region such as the middle east. The Soviets had the right idea when they invaded, they destroyed the Afghan government and began the counter-insurgancy tactics, however the United States in all of their wisdom gave weapons and aid to the fanatics. Please comment on any thoughts to any other ways to pacify the nation.

Our problem is that we're going at this half-assed. I say we send in 50,000 more troops. That will solve the problem.

After all, Afghanistan is FAR quieter than Iraq is, and is already on it's feet and working pretty well. They just need some help rooting out what's left of the Taliban. We could also start building things for them; I mean, the Army Corps of Engineers is made up of some of the greatest builders in the world.

Because sending in huge conventional forces has always been so successful in Afghanistan :rolleyes:

I'm not sure what could be done.

The only time Afghanistan had sufficient law and order for women to gain uni and postgrad qualifications and practice stuff like law and medicine, was during the Soviet 'dictatorship', when 1m Afghans died resisting change.

It's not going to work. Its natural state is lawless feudal country.

I take very strong exception to this charecterization of a nation and people who I know very well and deeply admire.

Under Zahir Shah, the nation was a lot progressive than many muslim countries. Barhanuddin Rabbani and Ahmed Shah Masood were very good leaders and would have done well, if the Paki propped taliban did not take them down.

Even now, if only Pakis are not allowed to meddle with AFG, they would be making great strides.

Many moons ago - before the soviet invasion - I read the man who would be king by Rudyard Kipling. Now, I am not saying that as a book it was a scholarly work; clearly it was nothing more than a potboiler designed to appeal to the L.C.D., and had little basis in reality. But for all that, its portrayal of the Afghans stuck with me.

Life imitating art - sort of.

I am not all that familiar with the demographics of the country, but could carving it up into a few big plots of wasteland, and several smaller countries ruled by various warloards much like the U.A.E. work? At least in the interrum?

I am not all that familiar with the demographics of the country, but could carving it up into a few big plots of wasteland, and several smaller countries ruled by various warloards much like the U.A.E. work? At least in the interrum?

From what I understand, thats about what it is right now.