NationStates Jolt Archive

Okay, so we've had scores of threads discussing the greatest general in history. But what about the greatest admiral? Who do you consider to be the greatest admiral or naval tactician in history?

We had an Admiral at home. The screen was 19inches but the whole set was more like 40 and weighed a ton or so. It had one of those dials you turned. It was pretty bright, too, I guess I must still have residual radiation from watching it so long.

Then we got a Zenith.

Michiel de Ruyter, especially for the raid on the Medway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_the_Medway).

http://swg.stratics.com/content/lore/personas/images/ackbar.gif

It's a Trap!

What makes a good admiral isn't really brilliance. When someone says brilliance, I tend to think of creativity, like Albert Einstein had. IMO what makes a good military commander of any kind is bravery, ability to work under stress, common sense, and a little luck. My vote would go to Arleigh Burke, the American destroyer captain in WWII who proved to be the most aggressive of them all, and in the right place at the right time too.
http://www.arleigh.com/pages/burke.html

Some suggestions:

Themistocles of Athens
Principle architect though not overall commander of the combined Greek force which decisively beat a vastly larger Persian fleet at Salamis in 480 BCE.

Heihachiro Togo
Commander of the Japanese fleet which destroyed the vast majority of the Russian Baltic Fleet in the Battle of Tsushima in 1904.

Isoroku Yamamoto
Chief architect of the devastatingly effective surprise assualt on Pearl Harbour in 1941.

Horatio Nelson
Many reasons, but we’ll just list Trafalgar, 1805.

Francis Drake, who led the English against the Spanish Armada. And a damned good pirate too. :p

it may be cliched, but Nelson, won at Traflaga (re-inventing navel warfair in the process) the Nile, the Indies, Copanhagen...and many, many more.

Brilliant to what purpose? Organizational? Strategic? Tactical? Doctrine?

de Ruyter and Yamamoto both executed brilliant raids, but raids do not a brilliant admiral make - Anyone can get lucky once; Consistancy is more telling. I'd agree that Yamamoto belongs high up the list of brilliance, but Pearl Harbor is not the reason I'd put him there. More, I'd say, is due him thanks to his strategic, readiness, and modernization activities than anything else. Another excellent recent strategist and readiness leader would have been Nimitz. Halsey and Spruance were excellent tacticians, but never got really tested on their strategic skills. Togo was both a tactician and a strategist, as well as having superior readiness results, making him a top contender, probably much more so than Yamamoto.

Themistocles pulled off a tremendous upset, but in those days admiralship was much more a logistical and strategic thing, with tactical command and readiness devolving upon individual unit and ship commanders. Still, he gets top marks for strategy.

Farragut was another good logistician, but was a better tactician than strategist.

Mahan was probably the most important naval doctrine thought-leader of modern history, and though his writing changed the outcomes of more naval battles than any other Admiral in history, but I don't think that's what you're looking for...

In general, Lord Nelson gets the nod - He won more often, against greater odds, for a longer period of years, than any other admiral in history. He was a logistician, a strategist, a tactician, and a trainer of unsurpassed capabilities. While in any one area of operations he has had his peers, no one has combined the total package so completely for so long. With the way the world is today, we'll likely never see his equal. That's not to say that there couldn't be a peer to Nelson, it's just that there will likely never be a set of historical circumstances that could develop the raw potential of an individual to its fullest flower.

Nelson
Battle of the Nile, Trafalgar, et cetera et cetera

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It's a Trap!

Dammit! Beat me to it! :p

Michiel de Ruyter! Who else?

Although Nelson was quite brilliant as well....

Francis Drake, who led the English against the Spanish Armada. And a damned good pirate too.

Yeah, pirates kick ass.


Themistocles of Athens
Principle architect though not overall commander of the combined Greek force which decisively beat a vastly larger Persian fleet at Salamis in 480 BCE.

Everyone always forgets his younger brother Testiculoles.

Nelson, and Bill Halsey.

Yeah, pirates kick ass.

Arrrgh, matey!

Oh and Drake too. He's was a "civilized" pirate.

Arrrgh, matey!

*raises eyebrow at your profile*

Are you Roach-Busters?

*raises eyebrow at your profile*

Are you Roach-Busters?

*nods*

Aye, matey!

http://people.freenet.de/admiral.kirk/pictos_002.jpg

*nods*

Aye, matey!

Arrrgh! I remember telling ye that ye would be back. ;)

Cool! I remember telling you that you'd be back. ;)

Aye, matey, Ah'm back, indeed. Ah was lost at sea, but now Ah've returned. :)

Aye, matey, Ah'm back, indeed. Ah was lost at sea, but now Ah've returned. :)

Didst ye find any booty along the way?

*grabs cask of rum and cracks it open*

Bottoms up!

Didst ye find any booty along the way?

*grabs cask of rum and cracks it open*

Bottoms up!

*Turns around, looks at derriere*

Aye, Ah see booty right now!

*Turns around, looks at derriere*

Aye, Ah see booty right now!

Argh...I not be touchin that treasure chest with a 5 inch hook, matey. :p

Argh...I not be touchin that treasure chest with a 5 inch hook, matey. :p

Aye. :D

Hey, get on MSN.

What other admiral has had a famous speech sampled and used in pop music?

"I Am Not An Atomic Playboy"

http://people.freenet.de/admiral.kirk/pictos_002.jpg
That is so....

That is so....

C'mon...someone had to do it. ;)

Beatty is the WORST Admiral. He totally fucked up at both Jutland and Dogger Bank.

The best is probably Nimitz. He won against difficult odds.

C'mon...someone had to do it. ;)
Wasn't he a captain?

Wasn't he a captain?

He was promoted (and later demoted) in the films.

Beatty is the WORST Admiral. He totally fucked up at both Jutland and Dogger Bank.

I think it is certainly too much to call Beatty the worst Admiral, I can think of many others far more deserving of that title, though losing three battlecruisers was a serious failure. Anyway, we have to thank Beatty for the immortal saying, 'there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today'.

For brilliant Admirals I'd also list Doenitz, he waged a dogged and innovative (though ultimately failed) U-Boat offensive against British shipping despite huge odds stacked against him.

Admiral Nelson was awesome. :)

http://people.freenet.de/admiral.kirk/pictos_002.jpg
Couldn't you have at least posted a pic with him wearing the admiral's cluster and not his captain's bars?

Nelson, Nimitz, and Yamamoto.

I'd also toss in John Paul Jones.

I'd also toss in John Paul Jones.Not a chance. He only served as Admiral in the Russian navy, and while he did a competant job there, it was nothing spectacular. JPJ was first and foremost a tactical commander, and even then he was more 'bulldog' than brilliant. While 'bulldog' was a valid tactical approach, it didn't exactly call for much brilliance.

Sock Puppetry,
USN (ret)

Couldn't you have at least posted a pic with him wearing the admiral's cluster and not his captain's bars?


Nah, laziness kicked in. ;)

Lord/Admiral Horatio Nelson, no admiral has even come close to the acheivements of this absolute ledge. Besides he beat the crap out of the French and Spainish thats good enough for me! :lol:

Altho Yamamoto beat the crap out of the Americans...nah i'm only kidding, love you really America :fluffle:

Nelson all the way baby, no other comparison

Altho Yamamoto beat the crap out of the Americans...Not really... One brilliant raid, a couple tactical draws/strategic failures, a tactical victory/strategic loss, a horrible loss to a numerical-inferior force, then a constant string of piecemeal defeats and forlorn gestures... Yamamoto's brilliance lay in making a good run of turning a sow's ear into a silk purse. He took the limited industrial capacity and manpower he had available and built a first class fleet with it. Then he lost that fleet in its entirety.

If you looked strictly at admirals (not naval officers who were commanders of squadrons or fleets that fought great actions but weren't "admirals"), you miss out on some great naval actions fought by lesser officers.

Besides Oliver Hazard Perry's famous Battle of Lake Erie ("We have met the enemy and they are ours..."), you'd have to look at Thomas MacDonough at the Battle of Lake Champlaign for his foresight in designing his ships to wear around to present a fresh broadside if needed. That foresight helped him when he lost a full broadside of his corvette Saratoga and he wore around to present his unengaged broadside against the British frigate Confiance. Shortly thereafter, the Confiance struck.

You'd also have to credit Dewey for the Battle of Manila, although the Spaniards weren't exactly a formidable opponent in reality.

I'd give serious consideration to Lord Nelson for his derring do and for essentially eliminating the French navy as a major threat during the Napoleonic Wars. Besides that, he warned the British about the American frigates long before the British-American War ever took place.

1. Nelson

2. ABC Cunnigham

3 Hornblower , well somebody had to put him in

I think that it MUST be ... Admiral Horatio Nelson :D

Francis Drake, who led the English against the Spanish Armada. And a damned good pirate too. :p
Yeah he was playing Bowls with his Cousin.
Then the Scottish and Irish Coasts finished them off.

Nelson here.

1. Nelson

2. ABC Cunnigham

3 Hornblower , well somebody had to put him in
He wasn't Admiral :p

Ackbar.

For brilliant Admirals I'd also list Doenitz, he waged a dogged and innovative (though ultimately failed) U-Boat offensive against British shipping despite huge odds stacked against him.
He really just repeated WWI though...I'd put a lot of credit in that case to the people around Tirpitz and the other guys who thought of using subs in a major way.

So I think Alfred von Tirpitz in terms of logistics and particularly his development of an early form of game theory has earned a nomination.

David Robinson!
http://d43992.u34.wcthost.com/images/David_Robinson_W_Trophy.jpg

He really just repeated WWI though...I'd put a lot of credit in that case to the people around Tirpitz and the other guys who thought of using subs in a major way.

So I think Alfred von Tirpitz in terms of logistics and particularly his development of an early form of game theory has earned a nomination.
But nelson re-wrote navel tactics.

Nelson, and Bill Halsey.
Crap i wanted to say Halsey.

D. Blas de Lezo y Olavarrieta. Being outnumbered, he defeated the English in Velez Málaga and Cartagena de Indias.