NationStates Jolt Archive

A lot of anti-abortion people base their stance off of Christianity. I'm just wondering if there actually is a biblical passage that says at what point (conception, pregnancy, etc.), the soul enters the body. I know there's one in Zoroastrianism (it's a specific point in the pregnancy, though I don't remember exactly when), but I've never actually seen one from Judaism or Christianity.

A lot of anti-abortion people base their stance off of Christianity. I'm just wondering if there actually is a biblical passage that says at what point (conception, pregnancy, etc.), the soul enters the body. I know there's one in Zoroastrianism (it's a specific point in the pregnancy, though I don't remember exactly when), but I've never actually seen one from Judaism or Christianity.

I think it's implicit. Certainly, when the holy spirit entered Mary to concieve the son of god (in Christian teaching), it could easily be argued that Jesus had a soul at the point of conception.

However, his soul is tied to two other entities, God the father and God th holy spirit, entites already extant at the moment of his _earthly_ conception.

Plus, it's pretty dumb to generalise from the one man who is, de facto, the exception to most human 'rules'!

I dunno, man. Between translation, interpretations, metaphors, and so on, I think a lot of people are going to be pitching some thin pastrami...

"Well, it says in Corinthians 4:20 (making this up) that "The Father shall know the things that are not known by the knower whose knowledge is not of the Father", so therefore, the soul enters the body at the point of conception, specifically, at the point the male gamete penetrates the phospholipid bylayer of the egg to a degree in excess of the average length of the non-polar hydrocarbon tales therein (also made up)."

http://www.priestsforlife.org/preaching/script1.html

I tried looking up the individual passages myself, but BibleGateway likes to add lots of references that don't format well for forums.

http://www.priestsforlife.org/preaching/script1.html

I tried looking up the individual passages myself, but BibleGateway likes to add lots of references that don't format well for forums.

Yeah, more specific references would be a bit more helpful. A lot of what that site refers to sounds kind of ambiguous.

Yeah, more specific references would be a bit more helpful. A lot of what that site refers to sounds kind of ambiguous.
H'okay, lemme see what I can do...

"The word of the Lord came to me thus:
Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I dedicated you,
a prophet to the nations I appointed you." -Jeremiah 1:4-6. Doesn't give a specific time as to when life begins, but if the Lord knew Jeremiah before he was even in the womb, surely he has a soul in corporeal form, whatever fetal stage he was in.

"Hear me, O Coastlands,
listen, O distant peoples.
The Lord called me from birth,
from my mother's womb he gave me my name." -Isaiah 49:1. God called Isaiah from the womb; He wouldn't call a lifeless cell formation as a prophet.

"But Zion said, 'The Lord has forsaken me,
my Lord has forgotten me.'
Can a mother forget her infant,
be without tenderness for the child of her womb?
Even should she forget,
I will never forget you." -Isaiah 49:14-15. God doesn't forget infants, even ones that a mother abandons in the womb.

"Truly you have formed my inmost being; you knit me in my mother's womb.
I give you thanks that I am fearfully, wonderfully made; wonderful are you works.
My soul also you knew full well; nor was my frame unknown to you." -Psalms 13-15. Body and soul are created in the womb.

"See that you do not despise one of these little ones [children referred to in Matt 1-5], for I say to you that their angels in heaven always look upon the face of my heavenly Father. What is your opinion? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, will he not leave the ninety-nine in the hills and go in search of the stray? And if he finds it, amen, I say to you, he rejoices more over it than over the ninety-nine that did not stray. In just the same way, it is not th ewill of your heavenly Father that one of these little ones be lost." -Matt 18:10-14. God rejoices in "little ones" (Latin: feti, fetus in the singular) that are found.

"During those days Mary set out and traveled to the hill country in haste to a town of Judah, where she greeted the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth. When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit, cried out in a loud voice and said, 'Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For at the moment the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the infant in my womb leaped fo rjoy. Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled.'" -Luke 1:39-45. John the Baptist leaped for joy long before he was born, and Elizabeth called Mary a mother long before she gave birth.

I cannot speak for all Christians, but I can share what the Catholic Church believes.

The Church believes that at the moment of conception, human life is form. That is because this is the point where the DNA from the sperm and egg come together to make the full 23 pairs of chromosomes and form the embryo's own unique human DNA. This is also the point where growth starts, which, if left undisturbed, the embryo will grow and develop. The embryo is simply seen as the earliest stage of human development.

Ultimately, before conception, the being doesn't exist. After conception, it does.

Any claim that the embryo is not alive, human, or a person, is seen byt the Church as a subjective reasoning to rationalize its killing.

Since the Church believes that the embryo, after conception, is a living human being, they believe that it is very wrong to kill it for any reason.

snip

Hmm...
The first, second, and sixth seem to be like the stuff mentioned by Elgesh: specific people watched from very early on (probably even in previous generations) for specific purposes.

The third says child of her womb, which is usually used to refer to a child already born, though I could see how it would be viewed otherwise.

The fourth is trickier, though its reasoning (God is forming+planning stuff) is conceivably applicable to any natural process, and might just be personalized to make it more meaningful. God would also be aware that a fetus was going to be aborted.

The fifth seems to be a bit of a stretch, according to the reference at the top its talking about children, not fetuses in the modern medical sense.

snip

Yeah, it's more understandable for Catholics to be anti-abortion, since their church can make a lot of extra-biblical things into articles of faith. I was more interested in how the various Protestant denominations justify it.

Well as a Christian I don't believe that all knowledge comes from the Bible. We believe in the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirits ability to guide us. Perhaps Christians tend to be pro-life because they believe God is telling them that the pro-life position is correct and not because it's specifically written in the Bible. That said, I was pro-life even before I became a Christian. Conception just seemed like a logical point to start protecting human life, otherwise it seems rather arbritrary to me.

Well as a Christian I don't believe that all knowledge comes from the Bible. We believe in the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirits ability to guide us. Perhaps Christians tend to be pro-life because they believe God is telling them that the pro-life position is correct and not because it's specifically written in the Bible. That said, I was pro-life even before I became a Christian. Conception just seemed like a logical point to start protecting human life, otherwise it seems rather arbritrary to me.
I can agree with that.


Most of the people I know who point to a biblical reference for the conception=life thing, refer to Psalm 139
Psalm 139:13-17
13 For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother's womb.

14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.

15 My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place.
When I was woven together in the depths of the earth,

16 your eyes saw my unformed body.
All the days ordained for me
were written in your book
before one of them came to be.

17 How precious to me are your thoughts, O God!
How vast is the sum of them!

the whole thing is pretty good to read, but really long, so I snipped the part they refer to.