NationStates Jolt Archive

...but the opposition is boycotting.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4496586.stm

I know that Chavez is not particularly popular in the States...but isn't he simply a Populist, a guy who promises the world to poor people and they love him for it?
Venezuela is full of poor people - so that kind of strategy would win him a lot of votes fair and square, right?
About 14.5 million Venezuelans are eligible to vote, although correspondents have predicted a low turnout.

The BBC's Greg Morsbach in Caracas says people queued to vote in deprived parts of the city, where support for the president is usually strong.

Polling stations in middle class urban areas were almost empty, our correspondent says.
...
The poll is being monitored by observers from the EU and the Organisation of American States.

I don't think the result is in much doubt either way, but what do you think of the opposition's move?
Seems a little silly, doesn't it?

To define Chavez as simply a Populist is to waaay oversimplify things. His government is heavily influenced (though he would never admit it) by some of the socialist trends that Northern/Western Europe have taken to over the last 50 years. The problem is though its the 4th largest exporter of oil in the world, just like everywhere else in Latin America (and especially Africa) that wealth doesnt seem to trickle down to the people. His concept of a Bolivarian revolution is one of those thingsd that "sounds" good, and indeed, it is in fact what Bolivar envisioned when he led the Spanish colonies to "freedom" (before the aristo/plutocrats did exactly what the jingoist had been doing for last 400 years anyway- take what you can and covet the rest. Chavez's ideology is centered around the idea of an eu like entity, with him (ostensibly as the only one with the politixcal backbone to stand up to the US) at the center. All in all, I'd say he's definantly a bit more lenient than Belarus (who isnt) but it aint exactly the Netherlands either. He has a very large emphasis on the centralization of government and thinks nothing of politicising the military, using it as both a nationalized police, but much more dangerously as one to keep the opposition in check. He has the potential to take the reins from Castro when the time comes to be the US's biggest irritant in the region, only one with a helluva lot more economic (and political) capital, ie petroleum, to back up his saber-rattling. Then again, it could be just, in an attempt to demonstrate to the people (whom many have very negative views of the US, seeing her as a gluttonous empire out to pillage the world for her own gain) that he is the boss, and not the US. After nearly two terms, its still almost impossible to say whether or not Chavez is a megalomaniac, a misguided idealist, or a clever manipulator although the most likely is a combination of things. He is, most definantly one of the most complex and difficult world leaders today.
And yes, the opposition move was juvenile and a desperate attempt to try to get international pressure to somehow magically give them parliamentaty seats. Then again, if your running against the party of the guy who has a personal guard that numbers in the thousands, I think Id rther stay home and have a few empanadas myself :-)

snip
Jeesh, they really seem to love going to the polls over there don't they :p

If the international and EU observers watching the elections, come back saying everything was legit, then the opposition parties (and Chavez's opponents) will have shot themselves in the foot.

I don't think the result is in much doubt either way, but what do you think of the opposition's move?
Seems a little silly, doesn't it?

My opinion...the opposition was going to lose big and they knew it.

If they stay in the election, lose big, and the observers say it was a fair vote, the opposition will no longer be seen as a credible force in national politics.

If they withdraw, they can claim to have major political influence no matter what the observers say about the election. How can their claim be disproven?

The opposition is doing what all oppositions do when they are on the cusp of being destroyed.

Well, they're destroyed now...as was to be expected, the results indicate that Chavez and Chavez-Allied Parties now hold a whopping 100% of the seats in parliament.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4496586.stm
Only about 25% of registered voters cast a ballot.

A two-thirds majority in parliament will allow Mr Chavez to remove the current constitutional limit of two presidential terms in office.

But the opposition says the low turnout deprives the election of legitimacy.

"Venezuela is speaking with its silence," said Julio Borges, a prominent opposition member.

I predicted last year, that this is going to end up with some type of Idi Amin situation. Looking at Chavez working the crowd and press in Argentina, the resemblence was striking - especially that bobbing up and down bit.

Anyway, now he has seized complete power, I suspect it is only a matter of time before the atrocities begin.

Well, they're destroyed now...as was to be expected, the results indicate that Chavez and Chavez-Allied Parties now hold a whopping 100% of the seats in parliament.



Imagine that...

Anyway, now he has seized complete power, I suspect it is only a matter of time before the atrocities begin.
This makes it just seem all the more stupid to simply not stand up for a vote. Essentially they now turned Venezuela into a one-party state.

And even though the turn-out is low, I'm pretty sure that everything else was probably legal and clean.

I predicted last year, that this is going to end up with some type of Idi Amin situation.
Idi Amin did a military coup though, Chavez was relatively legit the whole time. (Well, after his own coup failed that is ;))

So Chavez's opposition essentially pulled out a .45 and shot themselves?

Now they hold NO say in government at all. That's straight up stupid.

However, I congratulate Mr. Chavez and his allies. President Chavez, you are a bold man with grand dreams. I am begging you not to fuck up. Don't get drunk on power, don't make stupid off the cuff comments about this and that being an American plot, don't turn Venesuela into an autocracy... please. You have the rare golden opportunity to prove that simply being a popular leftist leader does not a Stalin or Castro make, and you've got a mandate to continue your Socialist policies. Please for the love of God don't screw up.

But still congrats.

This makes it just seem all the more stupid to simply not stand up for a vote. Essentially they now turned Venezuela into a one-party state.

And even though the turn-out is low, I'm pretty sure that everything else was probably legal and clean.

Possibly, the opposition shares my fears about his future style of leadership, and therefore people do not wish to become "the nail that sticks up." After all, he still has a huge groundswell of populist support, so it was unlikely he wouldn't get enough support to pass his "constitutional" reforms anyway. As such, perhaps to the people best able to judge - those actually in the opposition on the ground in Venezuala - silence is the most prudent option.


Idi Amin did a military coup though, Chavez was relatively legit the whole time. (Well, after his own coup failed that is ;))

I am not questioning the mechanism by which he came to power. I do, however, see some striking similarities in leadership style and outlook with Idi Amin. Take the recent exports of subsidized oil for the poor in the US*. Highly reminiscent of Idi's offer of foreign financial aid to the UK in the seventies.

*Which was also a disgraceful sell out of the Venezualan people so Hugo could aggrandize himself on the international stage.

However, I congratulate Mr. Chavez and his allies. same here...
Congrats to the man.

same here...
Congrats to the man.

OD2 got DEATed?

Sorry to hear that.

:(

OD2 got DEATed?

Sorry to hear that.

:(If im going to die...I hope its on a drinking friday nite. :D

I predicted last year, that this is going to end up with some type of Idi Amin situation. Looking at Chavez working the crowd and press in Argentina, the resemblence was striking - especially that bobbing up and down bit.

Anyway, now he has seized complete power, I suspect it is only a matter of time before the atrocities begin.
When the opposition lays down and pulls out of an election, it's hardly fair to say that the winner has "seized" power. It's the same as in the last Iraqi election, when the Sunnis boycotted--the Shi'ites and Kurds didn't seize power; the Sunnis ceded it to them. And in my experience, when opposition parties do that, it's in order for them to be able to argue that they have some justification for armed insurrection. I know you have this belief that Chavez is the second coming of Idi Amin--baseless in my view--but you're letting your conclusion bias your judgment of the events that are happening right now.

It will be interesting to see where this leads. It would be very interesting to see if Chavez can start building something like the EU in Latin America.

As a leftie I really hope that Charvez can get it together for his people but I really don't trust the man. I don't know what it is but my gut feeling is that the future looks bleak for Venezuela.

OD2 got DEATed?

Sorry to hear that.

:(
THX nad ...Dont worry

And Congrants on your 4000 post...*Buys beer for everyone*

Rock-on
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