NationStates Jolt Archive

I found this highly amusing:

http://www.hebookservice.com/products/BookPage.asp?prod_cd=c6824&sour_cd=HAE051201

Sure we did. But hey, we get accused of all other kinds of ludicrous shit all the time, you know, like hating the military, so we try to shrug it off as just more lunacy from people with little or no tether to reality.

Haha, I saw that guy on TV, making fun of people's mail and advertising his book.

This one's for you Eut!

http://www.holylemon.com/NightBeforeXmas.html

How the war on Christmas is not just being fought in loony-left blue state strongholds, but in the American heartland

Heh. This guy knows his market.

Sure we did. But hey, we get accused of all other kinds of ludicrous shit all the time, you know, like hating the military, so we try to shrug it off as just more lunacy from people with little or no tether to reality.
ROFL! Concise and to the point as always, Mr. Nazz! :D

This one's for you Eut!

http://www.holylemon.com/NightBeforeXmas.html
ROFLMFAO!!! OMG! OMG! Aaahahahahahahahaha! :D

This one's for you Eut!

http://www.holylemon.com/NightBeforeXmas.html Highly amusing.:)

Heh. This guy knows his market.
True, true. The business panel on FOX is talking about it right now! ROFL! :D

Highly amusing.:)
I would have said "frakking hilarious!" :D

The really funny ( and sad ) thing is, I KNOW people like that! Heh! ( And no, Nazz, I am NOT one of them! ) :p

"The War On Christmas: How the Conspiracy to Subvert Our Most Sacred Holiday Is Worse Than You Thought"

I thought that Easter was the most sacred Christian holiday (what with the ressurection and crucificion etc.)? My RS told me that Christmas wasn't as holy, it was just more popular.:confused:

I would like to see Christmas split: the secular holiday, and the Christian one. And then all the Christians can snigger at the people who buy lots, because they spend more money and worry too much.

"The War On Christmas: How the Conspiracy to Subvert Our Most Sacred Holiday Is Worse Than You Thought"

I thought that Easter was the most sacred Christian holiday (what with the ressurection and crucificion etc.)? My RS told me that Christmas wasn't as holy, it was just more popular.:confused:
I'm not familiar with the "RS" acrostic, but whomever it is was correct. The single most important holidy to the Christian faith is Easter.

people with little or no tether to reality.

conservatives(republicans for you yanks) i believe they are called

I would like to see Christmas split: the secular holiday, and the Christian one. And then all the Christians can snigger at the people who buy lots, because they spend more money and worry too much.
Interesting proposal, but it would never happen. Too many who call themselves "Christians" indulge in a buying frenzy, just like the heatherns! :D

Interesting proposal, but it would never happen. Too many who call themselves "Christians" indulge in a buying frenzy, just like the heatherns! :D Well, an ability to laugh at oneself is always a useful attribute.:)

This one's for you Eut!

http://www.holylemon.com/NightBeforeXmas.html

:D

conservatives(republicans for you yanks) i believe they are called
Funny ... they say the same thing about YOU! :D

Well, an ability to laugh at oneself is always a useful attribute.:)
Aaaamen! PREACH it! :D

I'm not familiar with the "RS" acrostic, but whomever it is was correct. The single most important holidy to the Christian faith is Easter.

RS = Religous Studies

Well, I think this shows the ammount of research that's gone into the book doesn't it boys and girls? ;)

I'm at war with Christmas.

Mostly to avoid people expecting presents it must be said...

Funny ... they say the same thing about YOU! :D

like im worried what the conservatives say, once theyre maybe third in opposition ill listen but till they can beat greens and socialists they can stay in their coffins

"Happy holidays!" Every time a supermarket checker or store clerk greets you with those words instead of "Merry Christmas," you have met another soldier in the war against Christmas. Secularists are bent on imposing upon us a neutered, secular winter holiday that throws out every trace of Christianity from the public observance of Christmas. It's all necessary, they tell us, to avoid offending non-Christians and, above all, to keep from violating the all-important separation of church and state. Meanwhile, Christians in America are increasingly marginalized and shunted aside.
Yes... Because it's paramount for mankinds survival that everybody imitates Christians.

It is a joke, right?

I'm at war with Christmas? Clearly the Massive Secrit Liberal Mind-Control Machine failed to contact me this time. I'd better get to work right away!

*looks for weaponry* *finds only ice pick, various wooden swords from childhood, and some really old sparkler fireworks*

Mwahaha! I sparkler the pretty falling snowflakes! I wooden-sword a Christmas tree! Whapwhapwhap! I icepick Frosty the Snowman and extract a tasty chunk of ice, all the while screaming my vicious battle cry - "HAPPY HOLIDAYS!" Oh, the fright it causes in its scary persecution of Christians by making them admit that some people are not Christians! Oh, the agony in the fundies' very souls as I suck their gods away from them by wishing well to all people, not just them! I am truly a cruel and sadistic person, as is necessary to be a soldier in such a violent and heartless war.

Whew, that was hard work, that Christmas-stealing. But I must be vigilant, since I'm sure "Miracle on 34th Street" will soon be showing, and I must make sure that the commercial breaks contain references to Channukah, Kwanzaa, and possibly hot steamy gay sex, just for fun. It's a hard life, being a soldier in the vast liberal conspiricy army, currently assigned to the Godless Regiment of the Impious, Nasty Christian Haters. But if this mission goes well, I can hope to be assigned next to a top-secret project involving dreidels, piles and piles of tinsel, some nitroglycerine, a reindeer skin, a cute children's choir, some candles, and a giant dildo sculpted to look like Santa Claus. Mmm...it's good to be a part of a vast conspiricy.

The Christmas vs Holiday issue is the single most stupid thing about America, in my opinion. I mean, come on! A lot of Japanese celebrate Christmas, and they don't give a shit about Jesus, I bet. I don't care that Christmas is a corporate wet dream sponored by Coca Cola(OK, I care a little) but at least let it be called Christmas!

We never had this problem in Sweden. The vikings just replaced their old pagan Jul-tradition(hanging animals from the trees) with the Christmas tradition when we got christianized in the 1100s. Isn't Yule(Jule?) an old british word for Christmas? It comes straight from the viking age. Think about that next time you think Christmas is something holy and nice. It actually comes from suffocating animals!

I'm at war with Christmas? Clearly the Massive Secrit Liberal Mind-Control Machine failed to contact me this time. I'd better get to work right away!

*looks for weaponry* *finds only ice pick, various wooden swords from childhood, and some really old sparkler fireworks*

Mwahaha! I sparkler the pretty falling snowflakes! I wooden-sword a Christmas tree! Whapwhapwhap! I icepick Frosty the Snowman and extract a tasty chunk of ice, all the while screaming my vicious battle cry - "HAPPY HOLIDAYS!" Oh, the fright it causes in its scary persecution of Christians by making them admit that some people are not Christians! Oh, the agony in the fundies' very souls as I suck their gods away from them by wishing well to all people, not just them! I am truly a cruel and sadistic person, as is necessary to be a soldier in such a violent and heartless war.

Whew, that was hard work, that Christmas-stealing. But I must be vigilant, since I'm sure "Miracle on 34th Street" will soon be showing, and I must make sure that the commercial breaks contain references to Channukah, Kwanzaa, and possibly hot steamy gay sex, just for fun. It's a hard life, being a soldier in the vast liberal conspiricy army, currently assigned to the Godless Regiment of the Impious, Nasty Christian Haters. But if this mission goes well, I can hope to be assigned next to a top-secret project involving dreidels, piles and piles of tinsel, some nitroglycerine, a reindeer skin, a cute children's choir, some candles, and a giant dildo sculpted to look like Santa Claus. Mmm...it's good to be a part of a vast conspiricy.

Amateur liberals, wait 'til you see what we socialists have got planned for Easter.:eek:

*strokes mutant attack pig tenderly and gleefully arms ICBM*

The thing I find funniest (or saddest, depending on my mood) is that people who honestly think that Christmas is under attack by the secular world 1) don't know that the majority of Christmas traditions are of pagan backgrounds and 2) that it's not secularists who are pushing through these changes--it's commercial interests who are trying to get people of every religious background to spend money, and so if they can increase the market by changing "christmas" to "holiday," they can increase their profits. Screw Christ--he got tossed out of Christmas a long time ago.

conservatives(republicans for you yanks) i believe they are called

Well, conservative is an ideology here. Republican is a club. The club was supposed to be a conservative one, but now it's just made up of people who hate immigrants, gays, intellectuals, peace, freedom, and tolerance, but who disguise this hatred as a love of patriotism, christianity, "down-home" values, the military, cultural presrevation, and cultural homogeneity respectivly. They don't have to hate all of these things to join, their hatred for one of these things just has to override their love of any of the other things. Or they can be bribed into it.

I found this highly amusing:

http://www.hebookservice.com/products/BookPage.asp?prod_cd=c6824&sour_cd=HAE051201
I'm sure you did.

Now that we have been exposed we can get onto our real duty of melting all statues of Jesus by burning crosses and pictures of Jesus in order to create metal statues of Hitler and Stalin. :rolleyes:

I am deeply offended by that article. It gives liberals all the credit for the war on Christmas, and not a word of congratulatution for me and my own unceasing efforts to stamp all joy out of other people's childhood.
Why must my life's work go always unnoticed? What the Hell have I got to do over here to get some press? Assassinate a mall Santa?

The Christmas vs Holiday issue is the single most stupid thing about America, in my opinion. I mean, come on! A lot of Japanese celebrate Christmas, and they don't give a shit about Jesus, I bet. I don't care that Christmas is a corporate wet dream sponored by Coca Cola(OK, I care a little) but at least let it be called Christmas!

We never had this problem in Sweden. The vikings just replaced their old pagan Jul-tradition(hanging animals from the trees) with the Christmas tradition when we got christianized in the 1100s. Isn't Yule(Jule?) an old british word for Christmas? It comes straight from the viking age. Think about that next time you think Christmas is something holy and nice. It actually comes from suffocating animals!

It's still a word we use for Christmas. Every year one of our TV stations used to run a highly publicized "TV special" called the Yule Log. It was just an excuse for the one of the local stations to give everyone the day off except for one technician who played a 24 hour tape of a log burning in a fire while a christmas medly played in the background.

Christmas wouldn't be a big problem in Japan, because it's a bunch of Shintoists and Buddhists with a relativly small Christian minority. To everyone it's just a fun excuse for a party. Here we have a relativly large selection of minorities who feel marginalized as it is, and religious holidays are a good way for them to preserve some cultural unity.

Hell, Black people made up a holiday from whole cloth called Kwanza. We acknowledge their right to celebrate that, so we should acknowledge the right of Jews, Muslims, and Hindus to celebrate their seasonal holiday.

Last year Jews were criticized for "Christmasifying" Chanuka. They were told that white and blue "Chanuka Lights" weren't a real tradition. One Rabbi commented (approvingly) that in 5 years we would see a "Chanukafying" of Eid (sp). Personally I think that Kwanza got Chanukafied, so now Eid will have to get Kwanzafied. Well, fair's fair. Christmas got where it is by being Yulified. Everyone else is entitled to do the same with their holidays.

You can't spend 2,000 years butchering, burning, and stake-impaling your way to cultural hegemony and then look around and say, "well, we've got the biggest holiday, so why doesn't everyone just celebrate that? Seems reasonable to me."

What if I'm at war with people who are at war with people they think are at war with Christmas? :confused:

http://www.hebookservice.com/products/BookPage.asp?prod_cd=c6824&sour_cd=HAE051201
Right: all liberals are humourless zealots with no sense of proportion.
Just like all Republicans are neocon scum who want to bring back feudalism.

What if I'm at war with people who are at war with people they think are at war with Christmas? :confused:
What about a war on the people who think they're fighting for Christmas in the war on Christmas?

What I think is most funny is that last year Bill O'Reilly touted himself as "single-handedly saving Christmas," from the Happy Holidayists, but his show's website was selling a "Holiday Ornament." Which is funny, because ornaments go on the tree, which none of the other Solstice holidays have, except for the Pagans. That's the one place where calling it Christmas would have been appropriate because any pagan who's a fan of O'Reilly has to turn in his athame and there's no such thing as an Eid or Chanuka tree.

Having had his hypocrisy pointed out, I believe he has changed it to "Christmas/Chanuka Ornament."

What about a war on the people who think they're fighting for Christmas in the war on Christmas?

What I think is most funny is that last year Bill O'Reilly touted himself as "single-handedly saving Christmas," from the Happy Holidayists, but his show's website was selling a "Holiday Ornament." Which is funny, because ornaments go on the tree, which none of the other Solstice holidays have, except for the Pagans. That's the one place where calling it Christmas would have been appropriate because any pagan who's a fan of O'Reilly has to turn in his athame and there's no such thing as an Eid or Chanuka tree.

Having had his hypocrisy pointed out, I believe he has changed it to "Christmas/Chanuka Ornament."
Is he the twerp who does that "Politically Incorrect" thing?

Is he the twerp who does that "Politically Incorrect" thing?
Nah--that was Bill Maher, who would eat Bill O'Reilly for lunch.

What's wrong with saying "Happy Holidays"? It is simply an all inclusive saying since it seems most major religions have holidays this time of year. Besides, what it really means when a clerk says it is: "Thank you for your money!"

Nah--that was Bill Maher, who would eat Bill O'Reilly for lunch.
Right. I have no idea who O'Reilly is, then.

Right. I have no idea who O'Reilly is, then.
He's that splotchy guy on the cover of Al Franken's book Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them.

What's wrong with saying "Happy Holidays"? It is simply an all inclusive saying since it seems most major religions have holidays this time of year. Besides, what it really means when a clerk says it is: "Thank you for your money!" INCLUSIVENESS? GET OUT!

Is he the twerp who does that "Politically Incorrect" thing?

No. Bill Maher is a reasonable fellow who enjoys cursing while expressing his opinions.

Bill O'Reilly is a duplicitous bully and masochist who can't stand being told he's wrong, but chooses to be wrong all the time so that he can invite people to tell him so, then he screams at them and has his producer shut off their microphones. His show is called "the O'Reilly Factor."

He's that splotchy guy on the cover of Al Franken's book Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them.
Ah, that's where I've seen him mentioned, then. I'll have to get around to reading that one.

Jesus wasn't even born in december, according to the gospel. His birth was sometime in spring, March or May if I recall right. Its been some years since my bible study courses. And you should ignore them, because they were with those ultra liberal pinko commie Presbyterians!

Of course, some translations have edited that right out. Its inconvient and confuses the pagans who ypu're trying to convert, because you just turned their winter solstice, sun worshiping ceremony into a mutual celebration of Christ's birth.

Religions aren't fixed, they've evolved from one into another. As a new relgion takes over a culture, it almost always incorperates old celebrations under as new guise/rational/explination, whathave you. After all, would you want to convert if it ment giving up your holidays?

If my "Happy Holidays" offends you, you'll be really livid after you tell me to say "Merry Christmas" instead and I flip you off. If you want to wish me a Merry Christmas, do so! If I choose to wish you Happy Holidays, thats okay. Sheesh.

Jesus wasn't even born in december, according to the gospel. His birth was sometime in spring, March or May if I recall right. Its been some years since my bible study courses. And you should ignore them, because they were with those ultra liberal pinko commie Presbyterians!


Well, December wasn't always in Winter. January first used to be the first day of spring. Greece and then Rome who adopted their calender had the common system of literate societies of having both a lunar calender and a solar calender. It was the job of priests to keep the two in synch by adding an extra month to the year every time the seasons drifted too far from their appointed months. Problem was, priests were easily bribed to extend or shorten years as suited people rich enough to bribe them. Eventually when the Romans realized that the first day of spring had been coming in the dead of winter they decided that a fixed calender was needed. But by then the first day of spring was already just a few days after the winter solstice, and has stayed there ever since.

What's wrong with saying "Happy Holidays"? It is simply an all inclusive saying since it seems most major religions have holidays this time of year. Besides, what it really means when a clerk says it is: "Thank you for your money!"
This.

It's a holiday season-even for the christians. What the fuck is wrong with shortening it all and saying "Happy Holidays"? If I was being all secular and xing out shit I'd say "Happy New Year" because that's the only secular holiday going on in the season.

This whole 'outrage' is a fabrication from people with thier heads far, far up their asses.

Nice, you don't like some group of people so you take a book and say "Oh this is proof you're stupid, look at what this guy wrote about you". Get a life :rolleyes: . Not all of us care about the holidays others celebrate, and if you believe this, you are the sheer symbol of ignorance.

The thing I find funniest (or saddest, depending on my mood) is that people who honestly think that Christmas is under attack by the secular world 1) don't know that the majority of Christmas traditions are of pagan backgrounds and 2) that it's not secularists who are pushing through these changes--it's commercial interests who are trying to get people of every religious background to spend money, and so if they can increase the market by changing "christmas" to "holiday," they can increase their profits. Screw Christ--he got tossed out of Christmas a long time ago.
ding ding ding ding ding.

This one's for you Eut!

http://www.holylemon.com/NightBeforeXmas.html
THAT IS SO FUNNY!!!!!!!!!!! Sadly, people stereotype liberals like that, big idiots who don't even think it's okay to say hohoho. About two people are like that.

Nice, you don't like some group of people so you take a book and say "Oh this is proof you're stupid, look at what this guy wrote about you". Get a life :rolleyes: . Not all of us care about the holidays others celebrate, and if you believe this, you are the sheer symbol of ignorance.

While I have more than my share of problems with Eutrusca's usual view of things (just yesterday I told him he had his head up his ass) even I'm sure that he was posting this to say, "here's a stupid book that say retarded things about liberals that even I wouldn't credit."

I am deeply offended by that article. It gives liberals all the credit for the war on Christmas, and not a word of congratulatution for me and my own unceasing efforts to stamp all joy out of other people's childhood.
Why must my life's work go always unnoticed? What the Hell have I got to do over here to get some press? Assassinate a mall Santa?


Fiddle my boy,
Yer taking the wrong approach.
What you need to do is appeal to the enemies sense of morality.
How do you achieve this?
Simply provide some pictures of Santa, while he is apparently orally pleasuring you.

This way, the neo-con-ultra-christians will think Santa is gay, and instantly ostracize him.

The downside, is that you'll have to engage in oral sex with a mall santa, and you just never know where theyve been.
But, duty calls, ya know.

On a different note, you cant "assassinate" a mall santa.
You assassinate guys like Martin Luther King, or Malcolm X, or John Kennedy,
Mall santa's are a waste of time to kill, as they are already dead inside.

"Martin Luther King was assassinated, Malcolm X was assassinated, John Kennedy was assassinated...Tupac? that nigga got SHOT."
-Chris Rock.

"Happy holidays!" Every time a supermarket checker or store clerk greets you with those words instead of "Merry Christmas," you have met another soldier in the war against Christmas.

As a bag boy, I take offence to that...

Secularists are bent on imposing upon us a neutered, secular winter holiday that throws out every trace of Christianity from the public observance of Christmas. It's all necessary, they tell us, to avoid offending non-Christians and, above all, to keep from violating the all-important separation of church and state. Meanwhile, Christians in America are increasingly marginalized and shunted aside.

Believe it or not, not eveyone celebrates Christmas. I really don't see what's so bad about telling everyone, not just Christians, to have a "happy holiday". If this was a Christian country I would say different, but it isn't...

And Christians, or Christmas for that matter is not being "marginalized". Last time I checked, the congress majority is Christian, and Christmas has moved far from a religious holiday, to more like a capitalist boon.

We're not marginalizing it, you've perverted it.


In The War On Christmas: How the Conspiracy to Subvert Our Most Sacred Holiday Is Worse Than You Thought, popular Fox News anchor John Gibson reveals that this is not happening because of some cultural consensus.

Fox News...that should tell you something right there...

On the contrary, he explains that a thorough and virulent anti-Christmas campaign is being waged today by liberal activists, ACLU fanatics, craven politicians, sinister agenda-driven educators, and witless media mavens. But for all their efforts, the Grinches have not won: plucky Christians are already fighting to retake their place in the public square.

Way to insult everyone who isn't you. While we have these guys, you have conservative Bible-beaters, Christian Coalition psychos, hatemongering politicians, sinister agenda-driven executives and crony Fox News researchers.

Gibson reveals just how bad things have become: in Illinois, state government workers were forbidden to say "Merry Christmas" while at work. In Rhode Island, local officials banned Christians from participating in a public project to decorate the lawn of City Hall. A New Jersey school banned even instrumental versions of traditional Christmas carols. And Arizona school officials ruled it unconstitutional for a student to make any reference to the religious history of Christmas in a class project. But according to Gibson, despite what the ACLU says, all of this is completely unnecessary from a genuine Constitutional perspective: the last thing on the Founding Fathers' mind when they wrote that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" was the banning of all public celebration of Christmas.

For the last time, I don't think anyone knows exactly what a congress of 200+ year old politicians were thinking at the time, and if you read what many of these people wrote on religion, you'll find that they weren't all to thrilled with the prospect of religion.

What's more, the Left's campaign to infringe upon Christians' free exercise of their religion has not achieved total victory. Gibson shows how millions of Americans are starting to fight back against the secularist forces and liberal local officials. He shows you how you can help save Christmas from being twisted beyond recognition. The War on Christmas is a perfect gift for all those who want to restore Christianity to its rightful place in American public life -- give it to them with a hearty "Merry Christmas!"

I'm really tired of this. People like this all assume that secularist are out to destroy everything that even remotely is associated with religion, or at the very least Christianity...

Webster's Dictionary Definition

Main Entry: 1 sec·u·lar
Pronunciation: 'se-ky&-l&r
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French seculer, from Late Latin saecularis, from saeculum the present world, from Latin, generation, age, century, world; akin to Welsh hoedl lifetime
1 a : of or relating to the worldly or temporal <secular concerns> b : not overtly or specifically religious <secular music> c : not ecclesiastical or clerical <secular courts> <secular landowners>

Do you see anything in there even relating to destruction of religion, only that we see things beyond the scope of religion.

And I'm not going to tell someone in my register line who is clearly Muslim to have a "Merry Christmas"...This is a land of many religions, many faiths. You want a place where they only say Merry Christmas...move to the Vatican...

James Wolcott (if you don't read him, you should) put up his snarky quick take (http://jameswolcott.com/archives/2005/12/scenes_from_the.php) on the battle over Christmas.

Today this nice saleslady handed me the blue Tiffany box she had tied with a ribbon just so and, with a twinkle in her smile, wished me a Merry Christmas. So I socked her.

That's the lengths us liberals are willing to go to in order to kill Christmas once and for all. :D

I think from now on if you say "Happy Holidays" to someone and they get snarky you should say, "Fine, have a shitty New Year ya fuckin' crab."

You know, Bill O'Reilly has been going on (and on) about this liberal vs. Jesusanta thing every evening ad nauseum. It's getting rediculous.
If there were such a big controversy about the issue, I'm sure the pinkos and commies would be all over it here on NS. Obviously, they're really not.

This should've had a poll. I'd like to see how the left really feels about this.

*calms down*

Bolol is not alowed to debate religion.

*bashes himself over the head with an oversized monkey wrench*

We never had this problem in Sweden. The vikings just replaced their old pagan Jul-tradition(hanging animals from the trees) with the Christmas tradition when we got christianized in the 1100s. Isn't Yule(Jule?) an old british word for Christmas? It comes straight from the viking age. Think about that next time you think Christmas is something holy and nice. It actually comes from suffocating animals!
ohmygod im glad we changed it to electric lights and glass balls.

You know, Bill O'Reilly has been going on (and on) about this liberal vs. Jesusanta thing every evening ad nauseum. It's getting rediculous.
When Odysseus' men released the winds from the bag, they all went into Bill O'Reilly.

For the last time, I don't think anyone knows exactly what a congress of 200+ year old politicians were thinking at the time, and if you read what many of these people wrote on religion, you'll find that they weren't all to thrilled with the prospect of religion.
Actually, the only time the words "separation of church and state" appeared in the Founding Fathers' writings was in one of the Federalist papers, either from Jefferson to Adams or vice versa, and its major point was that the state should not establish its own religion or impede on the religions of its citizens. So certain people have twisted the original meaning, yes.

That being said, I think this book has the same literary value as that uniquely shaped turd I excreted an hour ago.

The thing I find funniest (or saddest, depending on my mood) is that people who honestly think that Christmas is under attack by the secular world 1) don't know that the majority of Christmas traditions are of pagan backgrounds and 2) that it's not secularists who are pushing through these changes--it's commercial interests who are trying to get people of every religious background to spend money, and so if they can increase the market by changing "christmas" to "holiday," they can increase their profits. Screw Christ--he got tossed out of Christmas a long time ago.
The end of the year holiday we know as Christmas was originally a pagan holiday in fact most traditions that go along with it are pagan or have nothing to do with religion!
To me Christmas isn't religious because I'm not religious. To me it is a time to enjoy family and friends. We only give and get presents when we find one that just screams their names. Infact at my friend's family's home we call thanksgiving Thanksmas because we can't get to gether for christmas. We play games, music, eat a crap load of turkey and generally thank who's ever out there for our life.

The-Republic']Actually, the only time the words "separation of church and state" appeared in the Founding Fathers' writings was in one of the Federalist papers, either from Jefferson to Adams or vice versa, and its major point was that the state should not establish its own religion or impede on the religions of its citizens. So certain people have twisted the original meaning, yes.

That being said, I think this book has the same literary value as that uniquely shaped turd I excreted an hour ago.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ed_buckner/quotations.html

The-Republic']Actually, the only time the words "separation of church and state" appeared in the Founding Fathers' writings was in one of the Federalist papers, either from Jefferson to Adams or vice versa, and its major point was that the state should not establish its own religion or impede on the religions of its citizens. So certain people have twisted the original meaning, yes.

I believe the constitution also calls for an entity called the supreme court to be set up to interpret it. And they have extensively used the phrase separation of church and state.

I dont get it. Doesnt "Happy Holidays" include christmas? You know rather than assuming any particular celebration. And how exactly soes cheerfully wishing someone a Happy Holiday make you a grinch?

Those who think we should stop saying Happy Holidays and only same Merry Christmas(and I have met more than I can count(all christians!!!)) Should go stick their heads in a meat grinder:sniper: . How self centered can you get!?! :headbang: You only want Christians to be merry in this seasonal holiday? F-ing bastards:mp5: can suck on a stick. I say Happy Holidays and a Merry Christmas!!!! Let everyone on earth feel the joy of the season!!!! :fluffle: No matter what they beleive!!!

Those who think we should stop saying Happy Holidays and only same Merry Christmas(and I have met more than I can count(all christians!!!)) Should go stick their heads in a meat grinder:sniper: . How self centered can you get!?! :headbang: You only want Christians to be merry in this seasonal holiday? F-ing bastards:mp5: can suck on a stick. I say Happy Holidays and a Merry Christmas!!!! Let everyone on earth feel the joy of the season!!!! :fluffle: No matter what they beleive!!!

*twitch*

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ed_buckner/quotations.htmlThe compilers (Ed Buckner and his son, Michael E. Buckner) are humanists and freethinkers who support strict separation of church and state and freedom of conscience, if only to protect our own rights to be free of government-imposed dogma.
Which was the point of that Federalist Paper...

Also, everything I saw in your source supported the idea that government shouldn't interfere in religion by making laws with respect to religion. If there's anything different in there, please direct me to it.

I believe the constitution also calls for an entity called the supreme court to be set up to interpret it. And they have extensively used the phrase separation of church and state.
True, but my comment was only in response to the issue of the Founding Fathers' opinions on the matter.

I say Happy Holidays and a Merry Christmas!!!! Let everyone on earth feel the joy of the season!!!! :fluffle: No matter what they beleive!!!

You know, you've opened my eyes on that one. Christmas has become so secular and bastardized that it can no longer be said to be a truly holy day. After all, if it were then they'd call it Christ Mass, not a word that though spellec c-h-r-i-s-t-m-a-s is pronounced KRIS-mus.

So from now on it should be "Happy Holidays, and if you're celebrating Christmas, enjoy that too."

I just don't get the big deal the guy has with "Happy Holidays." Christmas is a holiday, so it's included in that gesture, right? Talk about a guy who sucks at picking his battles...

The-Republic']True, but my comment was only in response to the issue of the Founding Fathers' opinions on the matter.

I believe that a Congressional vote in 1796 was close enough to the era that it could count as true to the nation's origins.

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

The whole thing can be found here. (http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html)

The-Republic']I just don't get the big deal the guy has with "Happy Holidays." Christmas is a holiday, so it's included in that gesture, right? Talk about a guy who sucks at picking his battles...

No, this is a guy who has a major weed up his ass.

Jesus wasn't even born in december, according to the gospel. His birth was sometime in spring, March or May if I recall right. Its been some years since my bible study courses. And you should ignore them, because they were with those ultra liberal pinko commie Presbyterians!

Of course, some translations have edited that right out. Its inconvient and confuses the pagans who ypu're trying to convert, because you just turned their winter solstice, sun worshiping ceremony into a mutual celebration of Christ's birth.

Religions aren't fixed, they've evolved from one into another. As a new relgion takes over a culture, it almost always incorperates old celebrations under as new guise/rational/explination, whathave you. After all, would you want to convert if it ment giving up your holidays?

If my "Happy Holidays" offends you, you'll be really livid after you tell me to say "Merry Christmas" instead and I flip you off. If you want to wish me a Merry Christmas, do so! If I choose to wish you Happy Holidays, thats okay. Sheesh.

Amen. For the record, I am conservative/Republican on certain issues. But I guess I would dub myself as a 'Libertarian.' My point is, those of you, regardless of political inclination, who regard ALL conservatives as gay-bashing, xenophobic, cross-bearing, liberty-crushing zealots truly need to go out and survey a broad selection of 'conservatives.' This ignorant enmity that you and others display is precisely the same that conservatives radiate.

In regards to the whole Christmas issue, I don't give a damn whether some pinko-commie says "Happy Holidays!" or some soldier of Christ says Merry Christmas!" This whole debate convolutes the season's mood, whether you are religious or not, which is one of kind generosity and camaraderie with more than your friends and family. Is it so hard to ignore that which pesters you? Is America truly filled with whining people on any side of any debate that can't simply put aside differences or ignore the other party? What the hell ever happened to what we learned in kindergarten? Oh, wait, that's a German phrase so we should eliminate it for something more socially and culturally appropriate. If we abolished all insitutions and cultural practices that hailed from religious origins or ones that we didn't necessarily 'like' then we would become a society without an identity.

One final rant; finding 3-cross shaped ornaments on a tree in a governmental building does NOT warrant a lawsuit. More often that not I deem the ACLU just as money-grubbing as pro-business conservatives (which I am one of, as well). Its too bad that there aren't more Lewis Blacks and George Carlins to elucidate for mass society and individuals their sometimes grossly ignorant stupidity and flawed logical premises.

I found this highly amusing:

http://www.hebookservice.com/products/BookPage.asp?prod_cd=c6824&sour_cd=HAE051201
Why do liberals get blamed for this?

Why do liberals get blamed for this?
Because the neo-conservatives unbelieved faeries out of existance.

Why do liberals get blamed for this?

Because defence of the constitution is a liberal* trait.


*I am aware that certain liberals oppose the second ammendment.

Because defence of the constitution is a liberal* trait.
Sure. If by liberal, you meant in the classic sense, of course.

get some brains

Hi everyone!

oops- my sincere appologies for not adressing the Christian conservatives only. Please don't sue me!:rolleyes:

What?

What?
I think he's sarcastically being analogous to John Gibson.

The-Republic']I think he's sarcastically being analogous to John Gibson.

You got it... I guess it was a bit subtle...?

For those who don't get subtility-

Expecting people to say Merry Christmas instead of Happy Holidays is almost like expecting people to say hello only to Christians.

Or... other things... I'll think about it :-p

Yes, I am at war with Christmas, and I have been for some time.

Yes, I am at war with Christmas, and I have been for some time.
I know you! You're http://members.dsli.com/kniemi/images/heatmiser.jpg

Liberals don't know how well they have it.

Exchange I had at Wal-Mart earlier:

*purchases made*

Clerk: Thank you and have a Merry Christmas!
Me: I thought you all were supposed to say "Happy Holidays".
Clerk: I refuse to do that. It is Christmas!
Me: It is also Hanukka.
Clerk: Well I dunno about all that, but it has been Christmas at this time for a long time.
Me: The Maccabeean revolt, central to the Hanukkah celebration, happened 300 years before the birth of Jesus.
Clerk: Oh.
Me: So, if you want to go on the older holiday, say "Happy Hanukkah".
Clerk: But I am not Jewish.
Me: Then say "Happy Holidays".

Good times.

Good times.

Why do I get the feeling that you didn't do this because of some deepfelt principle, but rather in order to piss the guy off?

Why do I get the feeling that you didn't do this because of some deepfelt principle, but rather in order to piss the guy off?

A little from column A, a little from column B.

Meh. Screw PC. I think its Christmas, I’m going to say “Merry Christmas.” If those two words alone offend you, well, I pity you, I really do.

From one non-christian to all of you; Merry Chrismas

I found this highly amusing:
http://www.hebookservice.com/products/BookPage.asp?prod_cd=c6824&sour_cd=HAE051201

I've been fighting to keep it from being made the state holiday, and Christianity the state religion. I actually like bits of Christmas, the scandanavian food my family always eats (we're all Scandanavian) and I love giving my little cousins presents, and the look on their faces. But what I don't like is the government violating the constitution and passing laws that bring Christianity a state religion.

The fact that I'm a Atheist Socialist probibly helps the notion that I'm at war with it, even though in Choir I sing with ferverence about going over the river and through the snow.

In Denmark (which is in Scandinavia, and yes; the food is great) the word for Christmas is "Jul" which is is derived from the ancient word "Yol", which refers to the celebration of midwinters eve, on which the wikings and their ancestors would danse around a fire, sing merry songs, eat great food and get more or less drunk -which is quite similar to the way we celebrate christmas except the fire is now a pine tree ;)

As stated above I am not a christian and yet I have no problem embracing tradition and calling it "christmas". It is a holliday which is interwoven in our common global (western) culture, a habit you might say, which is most generally refered to as "christmas". Whatever your religion no clerk, or indeed anyone, is trying to force some religious doctrine down your throat.

That being said I think that the book that started all this is an expression of a growing paranoia amongst paticularly american christians who lack an understanding of their own faith as being primarily their own.

Merry Christmas

What if I'm at war with people who are at war with people they think are at war with Christmas? :confused:
Then you're screwed. :D

Right: all liberals are humourless zealots with no sense of proportion.
Just like all Republicans are neocon scum who want to bring back feudalism.
Just a tad touchy, are we? Tsk! :D

If my "Happy Holidays" offends you, you'll be really livid after you tell me to say "Merry Christmas" instead and I flip you off. If you want to wish me a Merry Christmas, do so! If I choose to wish you Happy Holidays, thats okay. Sheesh.
My, my. Hit a nerve did we? Tsk! :D

Nice, you don't like some group of people so you take a book and say "Oh this is proof you're stupid, look at what this guy wrote about you". Get a life :rolleyes: . Not all of us care about the holidays others celebrate, and if you believe this, you are the sheer symbol of ignorance.
ROFOLMAO!! Just gets better and better, don't it! :D

THAT IS SO FUNNY!!!!!!!!!!! Sadly, people stereotype liberals like that, big idiots who don't even think it's okay to say hohoho. About two people are like that.
Are you calling someone a "ho?" OMG! :D

And I'm not going to tell someone in my register line who is clearly Muslim to have a "Merry Christmas"...This is a land of many religions, many faiths. You want a place where they only say Merry Christmas...move to the Vatican...
Hehehe! So you can instantly recognize Muslims, eh? Hmm. Have you considered making appllcation to the CIA? I hear they can use people with your particular skills! :D

I think from now on if you say "Happy Holidays" to someone and they get snarky you should say, "Fine, have a shitty New Year ya fuckin' crab."
How very ... gouche. :D

*calms down*

Bolol is not alowed to debate religion.

*bashes himself over the head with an oversized monkey wrench*
[ Helps him. ] **BONK!** :)

The end of the year holiday we know as Christmas was originally a pagan holiday in fact most traditions that go along with it are pagan or have nothing to do with religion!
To me Christmas isn't religious because I'm not religious. To me it is a time to enjoy family and friends. We only give and get presents when we find one that just screams their names. Infact at my friend's family's home we call thanksgiving Thanksmas because we can't get to gether for christmas. We play games, music, eat a crap load of turkey and generally thank who's ever out there for our life.
Hey! Sounds like a Merry Christmas to me! :)

Yes, I am at war with Christmas, and I have been for some time.
Vich vey to da frrront? Sieg! :D

Why do I get the feeling that you didn't do this because of some deepfelt principle, but rather in order to piss the guy off?
Heh! Yeah! And besides, he's suppose to be Muslim. WTF does he care about Hanukka? :D

... what I don't like is the government violating the constitution and passing laws that bring Christianity a state religion.
OMFG!!! Where???? [ looks frantically all around ]

Heh! Yeah! And besides, he's suppose to be Muslim. WTF does he care about Hanukka? :D
C'mon now, he starts talkin' about Ramadan in a Texas Wal-Mart he's likely to end up tied to some dudes pick-up grill...

C'mon now, he starts talkin' about Ramadan in a Texas Wal-Mart he's likely to end up tied to some dudes pick-up grill...
And your point is?? :D

And your point is?? :D
That it was a safer way to make his point. Sheesh, didn't think I'd have to draw you a map there, dude.

"The War On Christmas: How the Conspiracy to Subvert Our Most Sacred Holiday Is Worse Than You Thought"

I thought that Easter was the most sacred Christian holiday (what with the ressurection and crucificion etc.)? My RS told me that Christmas wasn't as holy, it was just more popular.:confused:


Easter is the most sacred holiday. Without the ressurrection of Christ, there is no christianity.

I guess I'd consider myself a liberal. I think anyone who wants to stop calling Christmas-time "Christmas-time," should be shot.
No, castrated. With bullets.

I found this highly amusing:

http://www.hebookservice.com/products/BookPage.asp?prod_cd=c6824&sour_cd=HAE051201
I love christmas but, who cares about this book?! {yawns deeply} :p

I guess I'd consider myself a liberal. I think anyone who wants to stop calling Christmas-time "Christmas-time," should be shot.
No, castrated. With bullets.
Because only Christmas occurs at "Christmas-time" of course.

I should put this here since it's more on topic-

This 'Holiday/Christmas' nonsense of creating a one-sided argument in the attempt to back an opposition in a corner-

For example-
Con-"Why are you against Christmas?"
Lib-"I'm-wait, what?"
Con-"You're against Christmas, you godless beast."
Lib-"Didn't I just wish you a Happy-"
Con-"Holiday! You are trying to diminish Christmas! Why do you hate Christmas?"
Lib-"I don't-there's a lot of holidays going on, New Years-"
Con-"Christmas is the only one that matters!!!! If you do not wish me a Merry Christmas you are trying to destroy the holiday you heathen!!"
Lib-"I gotta be honest, at this point I don't care if you have a Merry Christmas or not."
Con-"UN-AMERICAN!!!"
Lib-"How'd this start?"

This insisted upon outrage that is railed against where no outrage actually exists, it's pretty effective, and it disturbs me.

Meh. Screw PC. I think its Christmas, I’m going to say “Merry Christmas.” If those two words alone offend you, well, I pity you, I really do.

Do you also wish everyone a Happy Hanukkah when it's Hanukkah? Christmas is only 1 day, you know. If this is your attitude, then I better never catch you wishing anyone a Merry Christmas on, say, December 9th.

But, then again .... *shrug*

Heh! Yeah! And besides, he's suppose to be Muslim. WTF does he care about Hanukka? :D

I'm going to say this one more time and I certainly hope it sinks in this time.

I AM A JEW.

Religiously, I am Muslim, but I was born and raised by a Jewish family in a Jewish home and am still surrounded by my Jewish family and friends and I still celebrate the Jewish holidays.

I am a Jewish Muslim.

Got it? Good. You do this every time I talk about something Jewish. I didn't stop being a Jew when I became Muslim any more than you'd stop being White if you became Muslim.

I'm going to say this one more time and I certainly hope it sinks in this time.

I AM A JEW.

Religiously, I am Muslim, but I was born and raised by a Jewish family in a Jewish home and am still surrounded by my Jewish family and friends and I still celebrate the Jewish holidays.

I am a Jewish Muslim.
-snip-
Huh, I didn't actually know this. I keep on learnin'.

C'mon now, he starts talkin' about Ramadan in a Texas Wal-Mart he's likely to end up tied to some dudes pick-up grill...

Well Ramadan is an autumn holiday, not a winter one, so it's over by the time the Jesusmas season starts. :) Hence, the Hanukkah example.

Well Ramadan is an autumn holiday, not a winter one, so it's over by the time the Jesusmas season starts. :) Hence, the Hanukkah example.
Caught me. Though I saw Christmas dancers on TV in July this year-meaning if the hype started any earlier it would actually be late. The season might just stretch six months if advertisers have their way...

Caught me. Though I saw Christmas dancers on TV in July this year-meaning if the hype started any earlier it would actually be late. The season might just stretch six months if advertisers have their way...

True ... it's like a hockey season now. Nuttiness abounds.

Well Ramadan is an autumn holiday, not a winter one, so it's over by the time the Jesusmas season starts. :) Hence, the Hanukkah example.

Actually its not, it migrates slowly through the year as time goes by. Eventually (23-24 years from now) It's going to be smack in the middle of Jesusmas season.

Good old pure lunar calendar.

Pardon my ignorance, but how can you "declare war" on a holiday?

You can't bomb a holiday, you can't put a bounty on its head, hell, you can't even spit in a holidays face.

Why would we want to fight Christmas?
It's about sharing, and giving, and redistribution and about collective happiness above competition etc etc.

In fact, I loooove Christmas!

http://voodoo_chicken_bones.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/santa.jpg

http://voodoo_chicken_bones.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/santa.jpg

....:eek:

Why would we want to fight Christmas?
It's about sharing, and giving, and redistribution and about collective happiness above competition etc etc.

In fact, I loooove Christmas!

http://voodoo_chicken_bones.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/santa.jpg

YAY!!!:p

Actually its not, it migrates slowly through the year as time goes by. Eventually (23-24 years from now) It's going to be smack in the middle of Jesusmas season.

Good old pure lunar calendar.

Heh ... yeah ... but I don't have to deal with that for a while. :p

Just a tad touchy, are we? Tsk! :D
I'm a trifle fed up of cretins who think that all liberals have some sort of (evil, communist, atheist) hivemind, put it that way.
Particularly given the shit fits that the religious elements of the board throw whenever anybody suggests that they have anything to do with Fred Phelps or the fuckwits who are trying to ban teaching evolution as a science in public schools...

Didn't you hear? We godless liberals hate Christmas. :rolleyes:

Didn't you hear? We godless liberals hate Christmas. :rolleyes:
Yea. Fucking rightwingers are at war with everything common people like. Or something.

Btw Eut, what's with the arseholery?

"What kind of commie crap is that?" Why is it that everytime something goes wrong to people who are conservative, its always the "damn commies" that are behind it? Didn't we move past the McCarthy era?

YAY!!!:p

That pic was bad ass

Btw Eut, what's with the arseholery?
I rather get the impression that it's because he's an arsehole.

http://voodoo_chicken_bones.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/santa.jpg

That is now my desktop.

Because defence of the constitution is a liberal* trait.

*I am aware that certain liberals oppose the second ammendment.
Surely you don't consider the banning of saying "Merry Christmas" to be a perfectly fair and reasonable (and not at all excessive) adherence to the constitution?

I mean why should liberals take the blame when it is clearly business trying to expand its customer base beyond Christians?

Why do I get the feeling that you didn't do this because of some deepfelt principle, but rather in order to piss the guy off?
How is it really possible to have a deep-felt principle over such as small matter? I will never understand Americans!

I should put this here since it's more on topic-

This 'Holiday/Christmas' nonsense of creating a one-sided argument in the attempt to back an opposition in a corner-

For example-
Con-"Why are you against Christmas?"
Lib-"I'm-wait, what?"
Con-"You're against Christmas, you godless beast."
Lib-"Didn't I just wish you a Happy-"
Con-"Holiday! You are trying to diminish Christmas! Why do you hate Christmas?"
Lib-"I don't-there's a lot of holidays going on, New Years-"
Con-"Christmas is the only one that matters!!!! If you do not wish me a Merry Christmas you are trying to destroy the holiday you heathen!!"
Lib-"I gotta be honest, at this point I don't care if you have a Merry Christmas or not."
Con-"UN-AMERICAN!!!"
Lib-"How'd this start?"

This insisted upon outrage that is railed against where no outrage actually exists, it's pretty effective, and it disturbs me.

Sigh, it's usually the conservatives that are made to look ignorant and intolerant. Jesus H. Christ, why? From my experience, most liberals that I have encountered (especially college professors) believe they own all worldly intellience. Also, I have seen these same people outwardly express the notion that anyone who is not socially progressive or a marxist is wrong. No questions asked. Since when is being republican so wrong? Since when is tolerance the ONLY way? I am a tolerant person, with no qualms about any person or socio-cultural faction. What gets my goat is that the PC police, the same who have foisted tolerance, automatically demonize those who are not. (That's not to say that the KKK and neo-nazis are right, rather they are blatant examples of ignorant enmity.) My point is that not tolerating intolerance is hypocritical. Unfortunately, nowadays we 'have' to say waiter-person, life-partner, he/she or him/her, WARDROBE MALFUNCTION! The archaic and unenlightened versions of these phrases are seemingly loathsome now. So what if I say he inclusively. I'm a guy, but if you think that I disrespect women and others by not saying he and or she then bollocks to you. Down with hypocrisy, up with social and fiscal policy geared towards hard-working and responsible persons, up with laissez-faire social policy!

This is only an example of more politicizing and sensationalism for the gain of the religious right. It stereotypes all leftists as atheists, when there are many Christian liberals. "Happy Holidays" isn't exactly a secularist's ideal-- as secularists don't observe such "holy days." It is, more or less, a respectful change to observe that many others are not of the same religious order and therefore do not obvserve the same holidays. People who stubbornly proclaim "Merry CHRISTMAS." to each passer-by are not being moral defenders of the "true reason" why we have "holidays" at this time of the year. They are only being obnoxious, disrespectful, and narrow-minded. Need I remind you that Christianity was not the first religion, and the Jews didn't make up Hannukah after the Christians thought up Christmas. Also, it should be pointed out that there is no biblical basis for Christmas at this time of year. No one knows when Jesus was born-- they put it on this time of the year to Christianize the Roman pagan holiday of Saturnalia. So really, the Christians were the first to make war on the "real reason for the season." Also, don't whine about Christianity being sensored while other religions are not. How many expressions of Islam, Hinduism, Judaism, Paganism, etc. have you seen in government? They are just as illegal as Christianity, but the people in power are fewer among other religions, and they tend not to think that the world owes them something, so it just doesn't happen. I think Christians are just upset that they can no longer enforce their morals to such an extent on an unwilling public.

Sigh, it's usually the conservatives that are made to look ignorant and intolerant. Jesus H. Christ, why?
It's probably because in recent years they have made a point of routinely calling liberals "unpatriotic", which was incidentally a preferred smearing tactic by fascist/communist regimes everywhere in the 20th century.

Sigh, it's usually the conservatives that are made to look ignorant and intolerant. Jesus H. Christ, why?

Made to? No ... they do it just fine on their own.

Meh. Screw PC. I think its Christmas, I’m going to say “Merry Christmas.” If those two words alone offend you, well, I pity you, I really do.

The issue is not whether or not the liberal is offended by people saying Merry Christmas. The guy who wrote the book was a conservative offended by people saying Happy Holidays.

Come to think of it, no one could love christmas more than an anti-religous heathen liberal capitalist: It's about spending money for no reason at all other than some percieved holiday!!! Liberals love people who support commerce, whatever the reason. "Waging a war on christmas" to a liberal would be just as darn stupid as blowing your foot of with a .45 just for the hell of it.

An interesting question; what does a christian percieve as liberal? -The free choice of religion, not being constricted to christianity? -Freedom of choice?... Is that liberal? Ofcourse it is! So why is this a bad thing?

I don't claim to speak for any group, but I personally would prefer to see organized religion die out completely. In the meantime, marginalizing religion and denying it a place in government is exactly the kind of action I like to see. In short, sympathy for complainants is firmly denied on my end.

An interesting question; what does a christian percieve as liberal? -The free choice of religion, not being constricted to christianity? -Freedom of choice?... Is that liberal? Ofcourse it is! So why is this a bad thing?
Autonomy is bad. If people think, they don't just swallow everything you tell them raw. And they won't start hating eachother just because they're told to.

Freedom = bad.

An interesting question; what does a christian percieve as liberal? -The free choice of religion, not being constricted to christianity? -Freedom of choice?... Is that liberal? Ofcourse it is! So why is this a bad thing?
What does a Christian percieve as "liberal?" That's rather like asking "what does a voter percieve as "conservative?" There are all sorts of Christians, just as there are all sorts of voters. Trying to figure out how they "all" feel about a particular subject is an exercise in futility.

I don't claim to speak for any group, but I personally would prefer to see organized religion die out completely. In the meantime, marginalizing religion and denying it a place in government is exactly the kind of action I like to see. In short, sympathy for complainants is firmly denied on my end.
Not an entirely bad train of thought, as long as "marginalizing religion" doesn't mean "marginalizing the religious."

OOC: well look at it this way:

the end of december/early january is a time for a lot of religions to celebrate important holidays. since america is supposed to be a great melting pot (not just a conservative, white, christian monster) wouldn't it be more accepting all around to declare the time welcome to all holidays? saying "happy holidays" is by no means insulting christians. what makes you think you owned this time of year in the first place?

this is a classically republican, conservative christian thing to say. do you honestly think you have the right to tell everyone else how to behave?

if you want, say merry christmas. but just because someone wishes you a "happy holiday" does not mean they are some sort of soldier fighting against your religion.

respectfully, sam taylor (lucida sans)

in addition, it is obvious that in today's world an uncontested majority organized religion is dangerous all around. there is no cause for this sort of fanatical need for representation by everyone. just because someone wants to respect the holidays of all religions does not mean they are not christian or trying to marginalize the religious purpose of these months. i agree with the above post as well that religion should be seperated from government, although i am not sure how this pertains to that idea at all.

What does a Christian percieve as "liberal?" That's rather like asking "what does a voter percieve as "conservative?" There are all sorts of Christians, just as there are all sorts of voters. Trying to figure out how they "all" feel about a particular subject is an exercise in futility.
That's pretty rich coming from somebody who started this thread on the basis that liberals are all identical to each other.

I found this highly amusing:

http://www.hebookservice.com/products/BookPage.asp?prod_cd=c6824&sour_cd=HAE051201

I am. It's a theft of a rather important holiday from another culture, and that theft has now turned into some excuse for corporate greed. I hate Christmas.

It's probably because in recent years they have made a point of routinely calling liberals "unpatriotic", which was incidentally a preferred smearing tactic by fascist/communist regimes everywhere in the 20th century.

I definitely agree that many dumb southerners state this, but there many conservatively-oriented persons such as myself that don't label liberals as
'unpatriotic.' Dissent and speaking your mind are perhaps the most patriotic things one can do. The problem is that far right-wingers and Neo-cons are often portrayed as the typical conservative. This is biased and reprehensible, from my view. Without getting into another debate I initially supported Bush, but now I disagree with many of his policies and condemn his presidency. How many other Republicans would admit this? Quite a few I suppose, so long as they didn't live/work within the Beltway (D.C.) I must give him credit for (somewhat) non-partisanly recognizing the threat that terrorists pose. Although, you could easily argue that he did nothing but what another president would have done, or something entirely different, after 9/11.

Bet you didn't know that you're "At War" with Christmas, did ya?

But of course I am. How DARE people insult good old Saint Nicholas of Myra by portraying him as a jolly fat man in a reindeer pulled sleigh ? How dare they have him show up at the end of december, while festivities in his honour should be held on the evening of december 5th ?

Kill Santa. Long live Saint Nick !

But of course I am. How DARE people insult good old Saint Nicholas of Myra by portraying him as a jolly fat man in a reindeer pulled sleigh ? How dare they have him show up at the end of december, while festivities in his honour should be held on the evening of december 5th ?

Kill Santa. Long live Saint Nick !
It's x-mas eve, already??????????

Made to? No ... they do it just fine on their own.

This is exactly the stereotypically ignorant statement that I am trying to refute. Please, look past Bill O'Reily, Jesusland (anywhere south of the Mason-Dixon line), Cheney, Dubya, and all the other neo-cons of or those who support the current administration. There are conservatives, like me, who are socially liberal. For instance, I think that gays ought to be allowed to marry, we could legalize marijuana and institutionalize it, and flag-burning Americans are supremely patriotic. Remember; Patriotism means love of one's country, not the government.

It's x-mas eve, already??????????

No, but it will be Saint Nicks eve tomorrow (or depending on your country: this night) ;)

For more info: http://www.stnicholascenter.org/

This is exactly the stereotypically ignorant statement that I am trying to refute. Please, look past Bill O'Reily, Jesusland (anywhere south of the Mason-Dixon line), Cheney, Dubya, and all the other neo-cons of or those who support the current administration.

That's a lot to look past. A whole lot.

There are conservatives, like me, who are socially liberal. For instance, I think that gays ought to be allowed to marry, we could legalize marijuana and institutionalize it, and flag-burning Americans are supremely patriotic. Remember; Patriotism means love of one's country, not the government.

Well you and the 5 conservatives like you should just come over to our side. You'd be in good company.

Well you and the 5 conservatives like you should just come over to our side. You'd be in good company.



LOL

I find it amusing, a few years back, a good friend at work used to sit down and debate how good Bush was with me until I couldn't listen to him anymore and had to walk away for fear of what I might say.
Now he's nearly as against Bush as I am. Let me tell you, thats a HUGE switch of thought for him.

On the other hand, when religous debate arises... he still smacks of retarded.
Even the other christians who are disagreeing with my views at the time think he's an idiot.


::edit:: oh he's also recently decided that I'm going to convert someday. I think he must be taking some medication we don't know about.

That's pretty rich coming from somebody who started this thread on the basis that liberals are all identical to each other.
Oh? And just where did I indicate that, pray tell??? :p

What, conservatives have done everything they can to stop the Vast Left Wing Conspiracy from making Stalin's birthday a national holiday. Why can't we do the same to them?

This is exactly the stereotypically ignorant statement that I am trying to refute. Please, look past Bill O'Reily, Jesusland (anywhere south of the Mason-Dixon line), Cheney, Dubya, and all the other neo-cons of or those who support the current administration. There are conservatives, like me, who are socially liberal. For instance, I think that gays ought to be allowed to marry, we could legalize marijuana and institutionalize it, and flag-burning Americans are supremely patriotic. Remember; Patriotism means love of one's country, not the government.
Um ... I live South of the frakking Mason-Dixon Line and I tend to be rather "socially liberal" too. So put that in your pipe and smoke it! :p

How rediculous!
*Throws handy-dandy fiery menorah of death at Rockerfeller Center Christmas Tree*

How rediculous!
*Throws handy-dandy fiery menorah of death at Rockerfeller Center Christmas Tree*
ROFLMAO! Kewl! :D

Amen. For the record, I am conservative/Republican on certain issues. But I guess I would dub myself as a 'Libertarian.' My point is, those of you, regardless of political inclination, who regard ALL conservatives as gay-bashing, xenophobic, cross-bearing, liberty-crushing zealots truly need to go out and survey a broad selection of 'conservatives.' This ignorant enmity that you and others display is precisely the same that conservatives radiate.

The problem is that conservatives vote for politicians who are the kind of person you claim that they are not. So if, for example, Eut thinks (justly) that this conservative wing-nut who says that liberals are at war with Christmas is out of his mind, well, he's still voting in a block with him. That's the sort of person that Bush appeals to because in his own words "they know I share their values." You might disagree with Bush on a great deal, to your credit. Problem is, the Republican party votes as a virtual monolith with Bush as its apex. It was astonishing that the party voted against Bush and Cheney on the "torture is bad" bill, but they voted unanimously on the "garotte the working class" bill and voting against the amendments that would have made exemptions for those who go bankrupt because of things like life-threatening illness or injury.

If you give power to the politicians who are exactly the type of conservative that you claim not to be, then for all intents and purposes, that's exactly the kind of person you are.

How rediculous!
*Throws handy-dandy fiery menorah of death at Rockerfeller Center Christmas Tree*

I think it's Democracy Plaza now. Renamed because it's the only few hundred square feet in the country that is a place of democracy now. ;)

The problem is that conservatives vote for politicians who are the kind of person you claim that they are not. So if, for example, Eut thinks (justly) that this conservative wing-nut who says that liberals are at war with Christmas is out of his mind, well, he's still voting in a block with him. That's the sort of person that Bush appeals to because in his own words "they know I share their values." You might disagree with Bush on a great deal, to your credit. Problem is, the Republican party votes as a virtual monolith with Bush as its apex. It was astonishing that the party voted against Bush and Cheney on the "torture is bad" bill, but they voted unanimously on the "garotte the working class" bill and voting against the amendments that would have made exemptions for those who go bankrupt because of things like life-threatening illness or injury.

If you give power to the politicians who are exactly the type of conservative that you claim not to be, then for all intents and purposes, that's exactly the kind of person you are.

Technically I didn't support any politicians (I couldn't vote at the time). But I strongly disagree with your statement that I am the kind of person who I vote for. If you don't like the candidates you can either settle for one you dislike or not vote, which is highly unsatisfactory in either case. It's unfortunate that ballot usually only consists of two or three likely candidates, and that 99% of the voters vote along only two different party lines. I wish that our democracy was more like the British or German style. My point is, given the fact that we Americans are presented with few candidates eliminates the freedom to truly support someone 'more like ourselves.' And one other thing; I truly believe that my political agenda is different than the agenda of the current administration. I am not the kind of conservative as many in the Bush administration and his supporters are, nor have I attempted to describe the conservatives of which you speak differently than they are. I will defend THAT point to exhaustion and then some.

Um ... I live South of the frakking Mason-Dixon Line and I tend to be rather "socially liberal" too. So put that in your pipe and smoke it! :p

You know what I mean, and I almost meant no offense. There certainly are liberals that live south of the Mason-Dixon line, but more than a majority are rash conservatives. What I said is analogous to saying that New England is entirely liberal. Both statements grossly stereotype, but there is an element of correctness in them.

That's a lot to look past. A whole lot.



Well you and the 5 conservatives like you should just come over to our side. You'd be in good company.

That certainly is a lot to look past, but there many different and dissatisfied conservatives nonetheless. Also, though I call myself 'conservative' I merely hold various conservative views as well as 'liberal' ones. On the 2008 ballot I will call myself an independent, as I will not identify myself with one party or another. Voting strictly along party lines can lead to imprudent presidential choices. And this whole American quagmire of conservative vs. liberal, "us vs. them" is terrible for democracy and is precisely contrary to what George Washington's Farewell Address speech. It's too bad we didn't take to heart his sagely advice.

Trust me, though, of late I have been tempted ;).