NationStates Jolt Archive

Since there is a strange lack of anime threads on this board, I guess I'll put up one every once in a while.

Since dubbing in anime is still an issue and bad dubs are still not uncommon, I'd like to know how you prefer to watch your daily anime dose.

Dubbed? Subbed? Fansubbed?

*poll coming up*

Usually, I prefer it subtitled. I only like dubbing if the voice actors are good, like on Cowboy Bebop.

If I have the opption of dubbed vs subtitles I'd take dubbed. Usually I don't have the choice :mad:

Usually, I prefer it subtitled. I only like dubbing if the voice actors are good, like on Cowboy Bebop.
Agreed. Especially since the subs were fucked in that movie. I've always suspected they either stuck them on the wrong movie, or that a retarded swedish midgit in a bikini wrote them. Or possibly both.

Generally I prefer subs - sometimes I'll watch something with both. FLCL had great english voice acting too :)

"Manga" (the company, not the form) are great for their subs - they managed to turn 'Phoenix' into 'Never-die bird' once. I'll stick with fan-subs :D

Hentai'd.

;)

Subbed. Dubbing sucks, 99% of the time

Agreed. Especially since the subs were fucked in that movie. I've always suspected they either stuck them on the wrong movie, or that a retarded swedish midgit in a bikini wrote them. Or possibly both.

What does the bikini have to do with anything?

"I prefer subtitles because I like the Japanese languange." was the closest answer to my real answer.

I like it w/o subtitles, because I either understand the original Japanese just fine (about 70%) or need to improve my Japanese listening ability (note that it is need not want to - the wages of living in Sin City, Japan.)

:::puts on old timer hat:::

My first anime was Tonari no Totoro, shown on Japanese TV in 1989. I've seen it 15+ times - every time but one was completely in Japanese, no subs. I saw it dubbed - once. It was OK dubbed.

dubbed cos i'm lazy and a slow reader :p


that said, there are some awful dubbed versions of things out there... *cough Disney's (:mad: ) new version of Miyazaki's Laputa... tis a travesty :mad: *

What does the bikini have to do with anything?More than you'd suspect... But alas I can't tell you, ot the Swedish midgit in a bikini would hunt you down & mistranslate your to death.

More than you'd suspect... But alas I can't tell you, ot the Swedish midgit in a bikini would hunt you down & mistranslate your to death.

Are you a swedish midget in a bikini?

dubbed cos i'm lazy and a slow reader :p


that said, there are some awful dubbed versions of things out there... *cough Disney's (:mad: ) new version of Miyazaki's Laputa... tis a travesty :mad: *

Yeah, some companies really do horrible things sometimes.

Just remember what New World Video did to Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind. They raped and tortured her and left her lying on the ground to bleed to death (translation: they cut important parts from the movie and completely rewrote the story). Then they released it as "Warriors of the Wind".

I wonder how those guys sleep at night.

Are you a swedish midget in a bikini?
I resent that! I'm most definitly not Swedish!

:p

Dubbed. Whilst dubbing usually sucks, I find that my tiny mind cannot cope with both watching the action and reading the subs. I feel it detracts from the visual orgasm that is anime.

¬_¬

I wonder how those guys sleep at night.

By telling themselves that its now wholesome children's entertainment. I saw a comic on this phenomena once. The implied butchery of the original script was quite graphic. If a normal human being was the original script, Frankenstein would be the rewrite.

I resent that! I'm most definitly not Swedish!

:p

Oh god. What was I thinking? I'm so very, very sorry.

Nooooo! Don't turn NS into an anime forum! I beg you! Please no! Don't you know about Gaia Online? It's supposedly the largest forum on the entire Internet! Go there instead! Shoo! Shoo!

Sorry, but I can't stand anime and I really like this forum.


-------------------------------------------------------------
OK, looking back at my post, I realize it's a bit retarded, but it's just how I feel.

OK, looking back at my post, I realize it's a bit retarded, but it's just how I feel.
You wouldn't happen to be Swedish and/or short, would you?

I prefer dubbing because Anime is one of those things that I watch when I really can't think straight anymore. At that point, I haven't got the focus to both read subtitles and pay attention to what's going on.
Also, truly bad translations are one of the best things in foriegn films. How can you beat the effect of "Why don't you use a gun?" becoming "That is very a primitive way to use an arrow?"

He, I'm actually swedish...

i usually watch dubbed with english subtitles.

i dont understand japanese so i dont see the sense in listening to the japanese version

With lots and lots of mecha :D
Really, I prefer it w/subtitles, tho, I'm not really picky.

Frankly, Im extremely happy that i dont know what "dubbed" means.

Anime sucks.

Get some real people.

Hentai'd.

;)

WHOOT!:D

Frankly, Im extremely happy that i dont know what "dubbed" means.

Anime sucks.

Get some real people.
Well, since you took it upon yourself to bitch about something you obviously know fuck-all about, let me ruin your day by telling you what 'dubbed' means.

It's when a band of lobotomised human lemmings deletes the original voices of the actors & replaces it with a bunch of mistranslated gibberish, read aloud by Micro$oft Sam at varying pitch.

When suitably drunk & bored, it can be ammusing. Sometimes. Well.. Exceedingly rarely actually. But it has happened.

Though I mostly dislike anime I must admit that I dislike even more dubbed anime. Japanese is a beautiful language and deserves to be heard! In addition to that, the original atmosphere is all gone with foreign voices. Besides, you learn to read fast enough, if you just want to. Even foreign subtitles are easy after some watching.

I HATE anime.

Ive watched enough of it to know I cant stand most of it.
The goofier and sillier it gets, with the high-pitched giggling, and huge eyes, and lame expressions that are used, the more and more I hate it.

An anime such as "Slayers" makes me so angry, I cant even watch it without literally getting pissed off.

However, occasionally one comes by that is enjoyable.

"Akira" was one such anime.

"Helsing", was another. That was was really good.

I preffer my anime with no sound or image at all. Anime sucks. I cant stand giant robots, and I dont see whats supposed to be appealing about tentacle rape. Samurai/Ninja stuff has been out since the 80s and anime still hasnt caught up. Not only that, but they dont even know how to draw realistic characters. Nobody looks like an anime, its not even possible to shape your hair in the way they do.

It depends on whether I've rented it previously or if I'm watching it on TV. [AS] only plays dubs, so I get used to the English voices. On the other hand, I didn't like Major Kusanagi's English actress in Ghost in the Shell, so I'll only watch it subbed.

That actually depends. If the dubbing is timed well and they got some good voice actors, then I'd probably go with the dubbed version. However, alot of dubbing is shit, so most of the time I just switch on the subtitles.

Frankly, Im extremely happy that i dont know what "dubbed" means.

Anime sucks.

Get some real people.

Not everyone has the same tastes, so try not to insult each others. Good karma people...good karma...

Agreed. Especially since the subs were fucked in that movie. I've always suspected they either stuck them on the wrong movie, or that a retarded swedish midgit in a bikini wrote them. Or possibly both.

LOL!

At least the dubbed voice actors were more than good enough.

I preffer my anime with no sound or image at all. Anime sucks. I cant stand giant robots, and I dont see whats supposed to be appealing about tentacle rape. Samurai/Ninja stuff has been out since the 80s and anime still hasnt caught up. Not only that, but they dont even know how to draw realistic characters. Nobody looks like an anime, its not even possible to shape your hair in the way they do.

First off, it's not all mecha warfare, and not everyone is into hentai. You obviously haven't seen some of the better show like Lain, Paranoia Agent, Bebop or GitS. Plus, if samurai/ninja stuff is out, how come we have movies like Kill Bill and Matrix, which are clear anime rip-offs and have grossed millions upon upteenth millions.

In the words of the Puppet Master from GitS, "Your effort to remain what you are is what limits you."

I preffer my anime with no sound or image at all. Anime sucks. I cant stand giant robots, and I dont see whats supposed to be appealing about tentacle rape. Samurai/Ninja stuff has been out since the 80s and anime still hasnt caught up. Not only that, but they dont even know how to draw realistic characters. Nobody looks like an anime, its not even possible to shape your hair in the way they do.

First off, it's not all mecha warfare, and not everyone is into hentai. You obviously haven't seen some of the better show like Lain, Paranoia Agent, Bebop or GitS. Plus, if samurai/ninja stuff is out, how come we have movies like Kill Bill and Matrix, which are clear anime rip-offs and have grossed millions upon upteenth millions.

In the words of the Puppet Master from GitS, "Your effort to remain what you are is what limits you."

Turned off, in the case of ones on the TV.

In the trash, in the case of the comic books.

dubbed cos i'm lazy and a slow reader :p


that said, there are some awful dubbed versions of things out there... *cough Disney's (:mad: ) new version of Miyazaki's Laputa... tis a travesty :mad: *
I havn't seen that but it must be Cowboy Bebop compared to One Piece.

Not everyone has the same tastes, so try not to insult each others. Good karma people...good karma...

exactly how am i insulting anyone? "anime sucks"? Not insulting anyone here, but just anime in general. "Get some real people" --im just saying get some real people in your movie/show instead of anime...:confused:

First off, it's not all mecha warfare, and not everyone is into hentai. You obviously haven't seen some of the better show like Lain, Paranoia Agent, Bebop or GitS. Plus, if samurai/ninja stuff is out, how come we have movies like Kill Bill and Matrix, which are clear anime rip-offs and have grossed millions upon upteenth millions.

In the words of the Puppet Master from GitS, "Your effort to remain what you are is what limits you."

Ive watched Lain and Cowboy Bebop and probably some of that other stuff without realizing it. My best friend was into that stuff and I had to put up with watching it while I was at his house. I still stand by what I said. It sucks. There may be rare exceptions, but the vast majority of it sucks.

Kill Bill succeeded, yes. But it is a parody of that old played out genre, or didnt you notice?

Matrix was not a Ninja or Samurai movie though it did contain martial arts.

I prefer it being aired in Japan. Where I don't have to see it.

I like watching it dubbed and subbed, because I find the discrepancies between translations to be fucking hilarious.

With a salad on the side.

And I am a short swede, but I do NOT wear a bikini!



...most of the time. :p

With a salad on the side.

And I am a short swede, but I do NOT wear a bikini!



...most of the time. :p

You are female, right? **apprehensive**

Don't think so... Hold on.


No.

First off, it's not all mecha warfare, and not everyone is into hentai. You obviously haven't seen some of the better show like Lain, Paranoia Agent, Bebop or GitS. Plus, if samurai/ninja stuff is out, how come we have movies like Kill Bill and Matrix, which are clear anime rip-offs and have grossed millions upon upteenth millions.

In the words of the Puppet Master from GitS, "Your effort to remain what you are is what limits you."

Wait, what? Kill Bill and the Matrix are anime ripoffs? You are officially the most idiotic, Japanu person I have EVER encountered.

First off, The Matrix was a biblical allegory which took cues from the later wire-fu movies, not anime.

Second off, Kill Bill is a tribute to the Hong Kong and Japanese kung fu movies, along with spaghetti westerns which were around before anime even existed, and Tarentino SAYS THIS. The movie has sonny chiba and David Carradine in it, for chrissakes! Learn about the culture you worship before you start opening your noise-flap about it

First off, The Matrix was a biblical allegory which took cues from the later wire-fu movies, not anime.


I'm not so sure about that one. I remember that the Wachoswki brother said that they "took some inspiration" from the first Ghost in the Shell movie. There are some scenes that are very similar.

EDIT: And wasn't Animatrix anime? Kill Bill I had an anime style scene too, so I find it hard to believe that neither Tarantino nor the Wachowskis were not inspired (at least to a certain extent) by animes.

Anime are the corruptor of our nation's youth.
Well 95% of my friends at least. The only good things were Kirby, Sailor Moon(the first few episodes), and pokemon.

Wait, what? Kill Bill and the Matrix are anime ripoffs? You are officially the most idiotic, Japanu person I have EVER encountered.

First off, The Matrix was a biblical allegory which took cues from the later wire-fu movies, not anime.

Second off, Kill Bill is a tribute to the Hong Kong and Japanese kung fu movies, along with spaghetti westerns which were around before anime even existed, and Tarentino SAYS THIS. The movie has sonny chiba and David Carradine in it, for chrissakes! Learn about the culture you worship before you start opening your noise-flap about it

The Matrix is a rip-off of Ghost in the Shell, using religious undertones to change the story to something considered 'original.' You can see the same 'Biblical allegory' in the transformation of Major Kusanagi and her encounter w/ the Puppet Master. Speaking of the Puppet Master, he's an artifical intelligence who wants to trancend the mechanical/biological construct. Agent Smith anyone? Plus, the fight scenes and style are basically the same.
I was probably wrong in speaking of Kill Bill in the same breath, but I stand by my words on the Matrix.

By not viewing it.

Anime is a dish best served subbed.

Anime is a dish best served subbed.

I love the random uses of Trek in anime. Especially the ones in Robotech.^_^

The Matrix is a rip-off of Ghost in the Shell, using religious undertones to change the story to something considered 'original.' You can see the same 'Biblical allegory' in the transformation of Major Kusanagi and her encounter w/ the Puppet Master. Speaking of the Puppet Master, he's an artifical intelligence who wants to trancend the mechanical/biological construct. Agent Smith anyone? Plus, the fight scenes and style are basically the same.
I was probably wrong in speaking of Kill Bill in the same breath, but I stand by my words on the Matrix.

I see, I was angered about Kill Bill, which is a decided tribute of the old Sonny Chiba movies, the Matrix argument was just to make it look more complete. But to call either one an anime rip-off is fallacious, ESPECIALLY Kill Bill.

Speaking of, Go Rent some old Sonny Chiba and David Carradine films. Start with Kung Fu

Anime isn't limited to any particular genre. Not all anime is either cuddly animals with ear-shattering voice acting, nor is it all caricatures of 10 year old schoolgirls getting raped to death by monsters.

While I hate 99.9% of all anime, I love the last 0.1%. It's not much different from American movies. Most is shit, but there are a few good ones.

And not all manga is crap either.

How anyone can honestly say they hate all anime baffles me. It's like saying you hate all live-action movies. This works both ways, I don't see how anyone can honestly say they love all anime either. Anime not a genre unto itself, it is just a cartoon, a type of film making.

I like films and tv series that appeal to my own personal opinion of what is good, I dislike films and tv series that fall outside it. I don't care whether they are live action or animated.

On the subject of whether I prefer foriegn films dubbed or subtitled, given the choice I would choose dubbed (provided the dubbing is to a reasonable quality). The reason is that I find the extra concentration required for reading the subtitle means that I am not fully concentrating on the picture.

How anyone can honestly say they hate all anime baffles me.
Judgment by ignorance. They know nothing of anime but a couple of crap, heavily-edited shows they show to little kids (unedited, they wouldn't even allow half of them on TV at night time) along with their other little silly American cartoons. They know nothing of the really good stuff so they sit around casting judgment.

Judgment by ignorance. They know nothing of anime but a couple of crap, heavily-edited shows they show to little kids (unedited, they wouldn't even allow half of them on TV at night time) along with their other little silly American cartoons. They know nothing of the really good stuff so they sit around casting judgment.

Either that or they just arent into tentacle sex and giant robots.

Either that or they just arent into tentacle sex and giant robots.
Why wouldn't they be into that?

Why wouldn't they be into that?

Perhaps theyve matured

Perhaps theyve matured
Past giant robots and tentacle sex? Lies.

I see, I was angered about Kill Bill, which is a decided tribute of the old Sonny Chiba movies, the Matrix argument was just to make it look more complete. But to call either one an anime rip-off is fallacious, ESPECIALLY Kill Bill.

Speaking of, Go Rent some old Sonny Chiba and David Carradine films. Start with Kung Fu

Thanks, though I don't rightly enjoy Kung Fu...I suggest that you look at the great films of Akira Kurosawa. If you have Turner Classic Movies, I recommend staying up for "Throne of Blood" on Dec. 15 @ 4:30(?), Kurosawa's adaptation of Macbeth. I also recommend seeing Ghost in the Shell before you decide the Matrix is not a rip-off.
Oh! and you can't go wrong w/ Miyazaki films like Princess Mononoke or Nausicca.

Be well!

Thanks, though I don't rightly enjoy Kung Fu...I suggest that you look at the great films of Akira Kurosawa. If you have Turner Classic Movies, I recommend staying up for "Throne of Blood" on Dec. 15 @ 4:30(?), Kurosawa's adaptation of Macbeth. I also recommend seeing Ghost in the Shell before you decide the Matrix is not a rip-off.
Oh! and you can't go wrong w/ Miyazaki films like Princess Mononoke or Nausicca.
The Matrix may have been influenced by Ghost in the Shell, but in no way, shape, or form is it a rip off. The storyline and world are entirely different and follow two different, barely related tangents.

The only good things were Kirby, Sailor Moon(the first few episodes), and pokemon.
No, they weren't. Really. Gain some perspective.

No, they weren't. Really. Gain some perspective.
Those shows are probably why so many people hate anime. If I thought they were the sum of the style, I'd hate it too.

Thanks, though I don't rightly enjoy Kung Fu...I suggest that you look at the great films of Akira Kurosawa. If you have Turner Classic Movies, I recommend staying up for "Throne of Blood" on Dec. 15 @ 4:30(?), Kurosawa's adaptation of Macbeth. I also recommend seeing Ghost in the Shell before you decide the Matrix is not a rip-off.
Oh! and you can't go wrong w/ Miyazaki films like Princess Mononoke or Nausicca.

Be well!

I am very familiar with the work of Kurosawa. I'm not saying that The Matrix isn't influenced by GitS, but to call it a rip-off is downright stupid

Those shows are probably why so many people hate anime. If I thought they were the sum of the style, I'd hate it too.
No, I dislike anime for reasons that pre-date all of those programs.

Growing up in Quebec in the mid-to-late 70s, there weren't many viewing choices available if your parents, like mine, refused to buy into either TV antennae or cable. That meant sticking with CBC television, CTV television, Radio-Canada (in french) or TVA (also in french). The animation on offer was always a mixed bag - CTV opting for syndicated re-runs of Hanna-Barbera fare (Scooby-Doo, Jabberjaw, Super Friends, etc.), CBC cobbling together extended programs of cartoons mostly coming from the Beeb in the UK, Radio-Canada tending towards the non-linguistic stop-motion stuff from eastern Europe, and TVA showing a lot of dubbed cartons from various places.

In the midsts of all this international fare, it was easy to get confused as to where this stuff was originating from. I would see programs airing under certain names, in french or english, and it seemed obvious as all Hell that most of these things were dubbed - the lips never seemed to move in synch, the voice characterizations seemed way off-kilter... so this leads me to why I frickin' loathe anime.

Back around 1977, CTV replaced the venerable old noon-hour cartoon The Flintstones with a series called 'Battle Of The Planets'. I'd never seen anything like it before - an animated sci-fi series. I watched it every day it was shown, but certain questions kept bugging me: Where was this cartoon from? Who was it made for? I thought it was fairly obvious that it was rather poorly dubbed... and so I'd assumed it was produced originally in french.

The stylistic conventions were baffling. Why were the two leading men depicted they way they were, while the comic relief were depicted differently? I wasn't used to inconsistency as a convention. Why were the two leading men depicted as being so... feminine in their appearance? With the big wet oversized eyes, high cheek bones and lithe little bodies? They seemed nearly interchangeable with the lead female character. And why did she look to be of such an indeterminte age? Was she a woman or a girl?

Et cetera, et cetera. I just didn't particularly dig the esthetic, and after the series wasn't renewed on CTV, I didn't think about it a second time. Just a damned peculiar little import I'd never really miss. So three or four years later, I was flipping idly through a copy of Heavy Metal magazine, and I came across an article extolling the virtues of some Japanese animator, along with inset stills from some of his work (don't ask me his name, it was too long ago, now).

Aha, thought I looking at the familiar doe-eyed effeminate male characters and the impossible-to-accurately-divine girl/woman characters, this is obviously the guy behind 'Battle Of The Planets'. Just a footnote. Just a reminder of lunch-hours gone by. Little did I know that this was just one animator, one animation house. Little did I realize that this was not, in fact, one man's artistic sensibility and design esthetic - that this was the anime esthetic in its' entirety. It was an esthetic that I didn't appreciate, as I'll outline later.

Fast-forward another ten years and I was in univeristy. Had a friend who kept blathering on and on about anime. Took him up on his offer to show me Akira.

Crap. Utter crap. Just as crappy as 'Battle Of The Planets' had ever been. Stylistically the same. He tried putting on a few other titles... Devilman, the one about the Battleship in space, Hell he even had Goldorak (that was how it'd been called on TVA back in Quebec) under a different name. I failed to see any real progression in style. If anything, it seemed to have become somewhat more rigid than before.

Ever since then, I've had people in my life trying to get me to watch anime. The last time anyone succeeded, I watched 'Metropolis'. Y'know what?

It was crap! Crap! Crap!

Lemme tell you boys and girls, as animation goes? Anime makes for a great series of still images. It never flows properly, if at all - looks like it was made to roll at 12 frames a second. That's crap. I've seen episodes of the Jetsons that have better tweening than the vast bulk of anime.

Making programs that rely to such a high degree on the social customs of Japanese culture - going so far as to assume that the viewer is familiar with the subtle intricacies of Japanese social dynamics - well, sucks. I don't want to have to frickin' do a research paper just to understand the underlying sensibilities in a frickin' cartoon, man. That's ludicrous.

Depicting women as girls gets real old, real fast. I can't stand female anime characters; they set my teeth on edge. Depicting comic relief characters with physical builds that run counter to established norms within the context of a cartoon drive me apeshit-mad. If the leading man has puppy-dog eyes, why does the geeky fella have pupil-less slits or ovals to see out of? Villains: too many villains look like the stereotype of the hook-nosed european Jew to sit at all well with me.

All in all? A waste of the time and energy required on the part of the consumer to digest. Video-carbohydrate. Eminently forgettable, ultimately disposable, endlessly, uniformly and unforgiveably bad from start to finish.

You hate anime because of some really old-school shit? I just looked up Battle of the Planets, that was the one where everyone apparently dressed as an owl for Halloween and never took off their costumes. Metropolis is also pretty damn old-school, even the remade one for Cartoon Network was made to look old-school.

Why don't you check some of the new stuff out? Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex or the GitS movies. Cowboy Bebop is also good. Anything made after the 1980s were over. :rolleyes:

You hate anime because of some really old-school shit? I just looked up Battle of the Planets, that was the one where everyone apparently dressed as an owl for Halloween and never took off their costumes. Metropolis is also pretty damn old-school, even the remade one for Cartoon Network was made to look old-school.

Why don't you check some of the new stuff out? Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex or the GitS movies. Cowboy Bebop is also good. Anything made after the 1980s were over. :rolleyes:
That's just the point - I picked out the names of the ones that for some reason stuck out in my mind, as I'm forever having people try to impress me with the latest anime ('really! it doesn't suck! anime has changed and it's way cool, blah-blah-blah' is the usual refrain heard), and yet it's still the frickin' same as it ever was. Shitty frame-rates adapted as stylistic convention, rigid roles and character depictions, crappy vocalizations, and an overbearing dependence on understanding the subtleties of Japanese culture. So sue me if I'm not interested - in crap. What can I say? Sounds like shit, looks like shit, I've been a horse drawn to water on at least six different occasions, and everytime the water tasted like the same old shit, no matter what my anime enthusiast friends might've had to say on the matter.

That's just the point - I picked out the names of the ones that for some reason stuck out in my mind, as I'm forever having people try to impress me with the latest anime ('really! it doesn't suck! anime has changed and it's way cool, blah-blah-blah' is the usual refrain heard), and yet it's still the frickin' same as it ever was. Shitty frame-rates adapted as stylistic convention, rigid roles and character depictions, crappy vocalizations, and an overbearing dependence on understanding the subtleties of Japanese culture. So sue me if I'm not interested - in crap. What can I say? Sounds like shit, looks like shit, I've been a horse drawn to water on at least six different occasions, and everytime the water tasted like the same old shit, no matter what my anime enthusiast friends might've had to say on the matter.
And you dust it off without even looking. Ghost in the Shell looks nothing like all of those, feels nothing like those, runs nothing like those. Hell, Gundam: Wing is progressed several levels beyond Gundam, especially visually. Are you never going to watch movies again because movies made in the 70s have a shitty frame rate, shitty claymation or costumes to count as fantasy creatures?

I could have recommended other animes, but I felt those would better suit your complainery. Cowboy Bebop has a storyline running throughout the series as well as the crazy shit going on in each episode, which all comes out at the end. Both Cowboy Bebop and Ghost in the Shell have excellent scores, especially Cowboy Bebop (composed by the same person).

If you need to know underlying subtleties about Japanese society to understand anime, you are reading way too much into it.

No, I dislike anime for reasons that pre-date all of those programs.

*snip*

It seems like your hatred of anime is based on a bad childhood experience. Ironically it's a common theme in anime that the hero has to overcome his own inabilities which are based on events in his past. ;)

What can I say - tastes are different. :)

I havn't seen that but it must be Cowboy Bebop compared to One Piece.
tis worth seeing. one of Miyazaki's first (big) movies as i understand it (in fact it was the one where studio Ghibli was founded if i'm not mistaken), so it has heritage but is often overlooked for more fast-paced 'adult' (not to mention modern) anime.

its a real favourite of mine. i love the story (lifted in part from Jonathan Swift's Gulliver's Travels), the characters, and the animation has a real charm that many other anime seem to lack to my eyes. plus, the english (british) dubbed version from the early 90's is great (and why the disney version is so poor - they re-dubbed it (badly) and changed all the music too :mad: )


(this is the bloke who did, for those who don't know, classics like Kiki's Delivery Service, Princess Mononoke, and, more recently, Spirited Away)



anyway, overall i'm not a big fan of anime myself - don't actually own any bar laputa (which i sought out a copy of especially) - but a number of old friends of mine were big fans and i learned a fair bit (and watched a shitload) from them :)
go violence jack! :D

Okay, I'm not about to download an entire anime film as a bit torrent, but I Googled Cowboy Bebop, went to the official site ( http://www.sonypictures.com/cthe/cowboybebop/ )and watched all the available clips. Nowhere near enough to serve as an evaluation of the film itself, it does nonetheless serve to catch me up somewhat with the conventions I'd had in mind - and not too surprisingly, I'm still seeing some of the things I found troubling twenty years ago:

In the clip entitled, 'What are you?' the characters are indeed appearing to run at a reduced frame rate. The voice emerging from the lips of who I assume to be the lead male character sounds too low to my ears. I can't say for certain just how the elderly female character was depicted due to the overhead angle, but the lead male is, as I had expected, a fairly androgynous figure, with the SAME! FRICKIN! WET! DOE! EYES! every lead male (and female) anime character ever has.

I was going to discuss more of the clips, but I just don't feel like it - oh, except to say that the big improvements include going to 3D modelling and proprietary cartoon shaders for the airship chase sequences - so in those instances it's not too surprising to see an overall improvement given the nature of 3D modelling and rendering, but anytime else we're back to the stop/start herk'n'jerk crap. I also noticed they're taking advantage of depth of field, atmospheric depthfading and thermal distortion filters in their compositing process. And yet, we'll go from that high-end treatment to the flipbook look and back again in a matter of seconds.

Thanks for giving me reason to have a look. I don't see anything worthwhile. Sorry. I'm just not interested in seeing Cowboy Bebop after watching the clips provided. The things I dislike about anime are still there.

Since there is a strange lack of anime threads on this board, I guess I'll put up one every once in a while.

Since dubbing in anime is still an issue and bad dubs are still not uncommon, I'd like to know how you prefer to watch your daily anime dose.

Dubbed? Subbed? Fansubbed?

*poll coming up*

Other. :-p I prefer copies burning in a fire. I canna stand anime, nor do I understand the obsession with it.

Other. :-p I prefer copies burning in a fire. I canna stand anime, nor do I understand the obsession with it.

Some people like some animated shows, and some people like other animated shows. There's not much more to it than that.

However, I don't understand obsessions with anime in general. I like specific shows, not specific styles of animation or shows of specific origin.

EDIT: Similarly, I don't understand people that dislike anime in general, either. But then again, I suppose there's people that apparently hate all Disney movies to, so whatever.

Subbed please. It's very rare that a dubbed anime actually makes an effort to match the orginal voice actors (The only two that I can think of off hand are Evangelion and the first season of The Slayers).

Then of course we have the problem of trying to match the Japanese dialects (The Puma Twins are NOT from the South! Kansai-ben is NOT a southern twang!).

Mis-translations to make poor westerners comfortable with the alien culture (Mochi are NOT cupcakes, they don't even look remotely like cupcakes!).

And attempts to make topical and colloqual language uses (No Japanese girls would EVER say 'You go girl!' and Nene is NOT a valley girl! *cries*).

There are good dubbs, I have seen them, but then there are those that are so bad I just can't sit through them.

Making programs that rely to such a high degree on the social customs of Japanese culture - going so far as to assume that the viewer is familiar with the subtle intricacies of Japanese social dynamics - well, sucks. I don't want to have to frickin' do a research paper just to understand the underlying sensibilities in a frickin' cartoon, man. That's ludicrous.
<_<
>_>

Um... Dobbsworld, they ARE from Japan. You can make the same complaint that watching The Simpsons (Heck, ANY cartoon, even the Jetsons) needs knowledge of American/Western culture to get and understand. That's why I LIKE anime, there's a lot of learn about Japanese culture, norms, values, and ideals watching it...

Sometimes, I have yet to find a redeaming feature for The Ping Pong Club.

In the clip entitled, 'What are you?' the characters are indeed appearing to run at a reduced frame rate.
There is no running in the clip "What are you?" I have no idea what you are talking about.

The voice emerging from the lips of who I assume to be the lead male character sounds too low to my ears.
Yeah, that's not right. For some reason the voice is really deep in that clip, if that is the same voice actor from the series (I must assume it is), then I declare it is just the clips that screwed up the voices, because it isn't that deep in the series.

a fairly androgynous figure,
So everyone should look like Jet Black (the guy with the metal arm and a scar over his eye who is for some reason only in the trailer for 2.5 seconds)?

I'm just not interested in seeing Cowboy Bebop after watching the clips provided. The things I dislike about anime are still there.
You are purposefully giving nothing any chance. You cannot judge a show or movie by a trailer, much less short clips.

And yet, we'll go from that high-end treatment to the flipbook look and back again in a matter of seconds.
The what? Is your complaint that it is cartoon animated instead of 3D animation?

I generally prefer my anime subtitled, but there are some series in which the dubbing is well done. These days, dubbing is slowly getting to be of better quality as many anime series are becoming increasingly mainstream in the US.

And just a slight note to those of you who hate anime for whatever reasons- you didn't have to read this thread. If you don't like anime, why don't you go find a thread on something you do like, rather than try to provoke people with statements such as "Anime sucks" or "I like anime burned. In a fire." All those statements will ever achieve is annoyed people trying to convince you otherwise in a futile effort. You don't like it, some of us do, and your statements aren't going to make anybody who likes anime suddenly go "Holy crap! You're right! Anime sucks and I am a fool to enjoy it!"

In fact, depending on the circumstances, going into a thread that is obviously pro-anime and then making flagrantly anti-anime remarks could be construed as flamebaiting. Just like going into a thread that's decidedly pro-abortion and posting unsubstantiated remarks against it is flamebaiting. You want to discuss, that's great. Talk about why you don't like anime, support your claim that "anime sucks". Don't just post "Anime sucks" and expect a warm response.

NOTE: Not posted as a moderator, but it is my US$0.02 about the nature of some of the posts on this thread.

Subbed please. Which is probably the reason why my Japanese hasn't completely died.

There is no running in the clip "What are you?" I have no idea what you are talking about.

When I say that the characters are 'running' at a reduced frame rate, I mean that they appear to be animated at a frame rate lower than what is considered a standard frame rate. This does not refer to the physical activity of moving your legs back and forth quickly.

Standard D1 NTSC frame rate is 29.97 frames per second. Film clocks in at 24 frames, unless you're watching an IMAX presentation - and I'm not about IMAX fps, though I believe it's in the neighourhood of 60 fps.

What I was trying to get across is that the hand-drawn animation of anime has always had a jerky quality to it - due to the fact that although they are working in the medium of film (hence 24 fps), the stylistic convention seems to be to allow the images to run as though they are constrained to a reduced frame rate, which is again variable. At times the action appears to be rolling at 18 fps, other times 12. This impacts greatly upon the fluidity of the presentation, and in my opinion, mars it significantly.

The what? Is your complaint that it is cartoon animated instead of 3D animation?No, my complaint is the lack of consistency and continuity. I thought the compositing and filtering effects were quite good - it helped to mask the poor quality of the animation. It was a pity though, that we had to go from the comparitively rich composited clips to the unprocessed, unsmooth clips and back again in such rapid succession. It served to underscore just how the lack of fluidity I described earlier, can mar the presentation.

A lack of consistency demands a level of forgiveness on the part of the viewer that should never be taken for granted. The 3D rendered sequences, as I mentioned in my earlier post, were of course technically superior to the hand-drawn ones, but essentially were exercises in animating machinery and applying proprietary cartoon shaders that result in more of a "hand-drawn" feel. So in a very, very general sense, there is some degree of consistency. But the fluidity of the motion in the 3D-rendered sequences makes the poor motion found in the character animation of the hand-drawn segments appear that much more pronounced.

I described my difficulties with the stylistic conventions of this genre. I investigated one of this genre's recommended titles. I gave my impressions. Umbrage was taken. I have now further explained, clarified and defended those impressions. Now I believe I shall take my leave of you.

*snip all the junk*
You are judging a nearly two hour movie on the basis of a handful of what? 20 second clips? Your judgment of the animation is especially flawed being based on these terrible clips. Hell, the "large" can't be more than 400x400, if that. I would also like to know where you are getting the fps numbers at.

That all depends on the situation. Anime is usually good enough dubbed. Hentai on the other hand is usually best when subbed. That's not to say that dubbed hentai tends to be bad. What I am saying is that when a hentai is dubbed poorly it tends to be much, much worse than if a hentai were to be subbed poorly

Anime should be seen subbed. I avoid most dubs like the plague, having heard way too many dismal actors and voices that don't fit the characters at all. There are a couple of exceptions though, chiefly Tenchi Muyo, which is one of the few animes I actually prefer dubbed.

Since there is a strange lack of anime threads on this board, I guess I'll put up one every once in a while.

Since dubbing in anime is still an issue and bad dubs are still not uncommon, I'd like to know how you prefer to watch your daily anime dose.

Dubbed? Subbed? Fansubbed?

*poll coming up*
Not all dubbing is bad. The dubbling on Neon Genesis: Evangelion is utterly brilliant, and at times comes out better than the direct translation (P.S. My quoting is atrocious so don't mind if a few words are out of place).
e.g.

Direct trans:
Tech:"Hey Misato, you look tired."
Misato:"Yeah I was working all night."
Tech:"On what?"
Scientist:"Kanji."
(Misato fumes)

English trans:
Tech:"Hey Misato, you look like you've been worked to the bone!"
Misato:"Yeah I was up all night working on something."
Tech:"On what?"
Scientist:"Kanji's bone."
(Misato fumes)

Plus it's a helluva lot easier on the ears when you're fragged after a hard day's work.

Anime should be seen subbed. I avoid most dubs like the plague, having heard way too many dismal actors and voices that don't fit the characters at all. There are a couple of exceptions though, chiefly Tenchi Muyo, which is one of the few animes I actually prefer dubbed.
Subs are too hard on the eyes.

P.S. Is there an actual ENDING to NG:E at all, it's tearing my brain apart.

With Wenches.

With Wenches.
Wenches? Well, if medieval babes are tearing by brain apart, I'm sure I can deal with it.

P.S. Is there an actual ENDING to NG:E at all, it's tearing my brain apart.
Neon Genesis Evangelion? Yes, yes there is.

But trust me when I state that actually knowing the ending will tear it even more apart.

Since there is a strange lack of anime threads on this board, I guess I'll put up one every once in a while.

Since dubbing in anime is still an issue and bad dubs are still not uncommon, I'd like to know how you prefer to watch your daily anime dose.

Dubbed? Subbed? Fansubbed?

*poll coming up*

I like my anime shredded and served with shallots. :)

I've never cared for anime's odd angular features and distorted proportions. I prefer more traditional animation.

I like my anime shredded and served with shallots. :)

I've never cared for anime's odd angular features and distorted proportions. I prefer more traditional animation.
Yeah, but the vast majority of cartoons these days are even more distorted than anime

Anime sucks, don't like the art style.
CGI or Western any day.
Having said that, I prefer foriegn movies subtitled as 95%+ suck dubbed.
Some dubbing is beneficially to movies as it becomes funnier

Yeah, but the vast majority of cartoons these days are even more distorted than anime

Yeah damn Cartoon Network
Dexter's Labaratory and Courage The Cowardly DOg are the only good shows, but Samurai Jack, Sheep In The Big City and I Am Weasel can be funny.
I Am Weasel cracks me up because the weasel is the Klingon from Star Trek.
Not a Trekkie but damn that a funny image.
90's were the golden age
Pinky and The Brain, Freakazoid, Animaniacs, all gold

I HATE anime.

Ive watched enough of it to know I cant stand most of it.
The goofier and sillier it gets, with the high-pitched giggling, and huge eyes, and lame expressions that are used, the more and more I hate it.

An anime such as "Slayers" makes me so angry, I cant even watch it without literally getting pissed off.

However, occasionally one comes by that is enjoyable.

"Akira" was one such anime.

"Helsing", was another. That was was really good.



After some consideration, I change my mind.

Here are some anime that I loved as a kid.

Battle of the Planets, or "G-Force", as it was known in the states.
I was very young, but it was kick-ass.

Robotech.
The first series was really cool.
It was one of the few after school cartoon series where people DIED!
Wich may not be all that impressive these days, when I was 12, it was pretty frickin sweet.

Recently, I'll add FLCL to that list.
Its damn strange, and the sexual tension between this 12 year old kid and a hot alien chick is so thick you can cut it with a Vespa scooter.
...and thats kinda weird...

But, for some reason...its pretty cool little series.

Non-existant.

I prefer my anime with schoolgirls being analy violated by the tenticles of rock monsters whislt a ninja receives oral from an eerily lolitesque sailor chick.

I prefer my anime with schoolgirls being analy violated by the tenticles of rock monsters whislt a ninja receives oral from an eerily lolitesque sailor chick.

I spent weeks writing that script! It's nice to be noticed. :)

I spent weeks writing that script! It's nice to be noticed. :)I laughed so hard I think I coughed up blood... that may be my first real lol!

Non-existant.
Two Words: Good Call

I laughed so hard I think I coughed up blood... that may be my first real lol!

*checks notebook.* Ahh.. here we go. Ro...to...via-. COughed...up...blood...

Groovy. Three more and I get a plasma television! :D

I spent weeks writing that script! It's nice to be noticed. :)

I heard that Disney is doing a life action movie remake. It's planned to be the first release of the new Disney XXX label.