NationStates Jolt Archive

COMMENTARY: Any way you look at it, this just totally unacceptable. I think this says it all: "... gay kids expressing affection are not treated the way straight kids are." I don't give a crap if seeing kids the same sex holding hands gives you the willies, that's your problem. But to "out" the child to her ( or his ) mother is dispicable.


Openly Gay Student's Lawsuit Over Privacy
Will Proceed (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/02/education/02schools.html?th&emc=th)

By TAMAR LEWIN
Published: December 2, 2005
In a case involving a California high school girl who was openly gay at school, a federal judge has ruled that the girl, Charlene Nguon, may proceed with a lawsuit charging that her privacy rights were violated when the principal called her mother and disclosed that she is gay.

Ms. Nguon filed suit in September after a year of run-ins with Ben Wolf, the principal of Santiago High School in Garden Grove, Calif., over her hugging, kissing and holding hands with her girlfriend. Ms. Nguon was an all-A student ranked in the top 5 percent of her class, with no prior record of discipline. But last year, after Mr. Wolf said he wanted to separate her from her girlfriend, she transferred to another school. Her grades slipped, and her commute grew from a four-block walk to a four-and-a-half mile bike ride.

Judge James V. Selna of the Central District Court of California ruled Monday that Ms. Nguon had "sufficiently alleged a legally protected privacy interest in information about her sexual orientation."

"This is the first court ruling we're aware of where a judge has recognized that a student has a right not to have her sexual orientation disclosed to her parents, even if she is out of the closet at school," said Christine Sun, a lawyer at the American Civil Liberties Union, who brought the case. "It's really important, because, while Charlene's parents have been very supportive, coming out is a very serious decision that should not be taken away from anyone, and disclosure can cause a lot of harm to students who live in an unsupportive home."

Alan Trudell, a spokesman for the school district, would not comment on the litigation. In its motion to dismiss the case, the district argued that Ms. Nguon had no legally protectable privacy right because she was "openly lesbian" and "constantly" hugging and kissing her girlfriend.

[ NOTE: So did the school district also tell heterosexual children that they have "no legally protectable privacy right" because they were openly heterosexual and constantly hugging and kissing their girl or boy friend? ]

"A reasonable person could not expect that their actions on school grounds, in front of everyone else on the school grounds, would remain private," the motion said.

The district also said Ms. Nguon had "an issue with authority" and was disciplined because of her defiance, not because of her homosexuality. Both Ms. Nguon and her girlfriend were suspended twice, once for a day and once for a week.

The district saw Ms. Nguon's behavior and legal case as inconsistent, its motion questioning why "she can be openly gay in public, but should be permitted to hide her homosexuality from her parents." :rolleyes:

Ms. Nguon said yesterday that the day on which the principal called was a difficult one for the family.

"My mom picked me up from school and her eyes were all watery," she said. "I just went to my room and cried. We didn't talk about it for about a week."

After the A.C.L.U. sent a letter to the school in late July, Ms. Nguon was allowed to return to Santiago High, but to date the school has not agreed to clear her disciplinary record.

Conservatives criticized the judge's reasoning. "This court ruling is so unrealistic that it borders on ridiculous," said Carrie Gordon Earll, a spokeswoman for Focus on the Family, a socially conservative group based in Colorado. "In a disciplinary action by the school, you can't expect them to lie to the parents and not give details of what happened. It seems ironic to raise privacy as an issue in a public display of affection. She'd already outed herself." [ SO???? ]

Advocates for gay rights, however, welcomed the judge's decision to let the case proceed, but said it was too soon to celebrate.

"I wouldn't yet go out and tell a kid in Iowa to walk down the halls at school holding hands with his boyfriend," said Brian Chase, a lawyer with the Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund. "It isn't fair, but gay kids expressing affection are not treated the way straight kids are."

The lawsuit seeks to clear Ms. Nguon's record and create a districtwide policy and guidelines for the treatment of gay students.

...Why the hell should kissing or hugging a boyfriend or girlfriend result in disciplinary action?

That principal is a jackass, I hope they're fired.

You support an administration that panders to a cult mindset that says homosexuals ought to be put away for life at Asschwitz and you complain about this? Pshah.

:D

You support an administration that panders to a cult mindset that says homosexuals ought to be put away for life at Asschwitz and you complain about this? Pshah.

:D
Where the hell do you come up with this shit? You're just ... strange! :p

god almighty, but folk are daft. It's the wee girl's business, no one else's :mad:

There are dozens of lesbians at my school. They're a pleasant addition to the student body.

...Why the hell should kissing or hugging a boyfriend or girlfriend result in disciplinary action?

That principal is a jackass, I hope they're fired.


I kept thinking that the whole time.

Why wasn't the principal sued and/or fired for descrimination?
Isn't what he did, based entirely on the studen'ts sexual orientation I understand, illegal?

it seems to me that this girl was gonna get accidentally outed sooner or later. you cant be openly gay at school without it ever getting back to your family.

but the part about him wanting to break up her reltationship is pretty creepy

You know, this incident got me thinking on a very important subject. So please, do correct me if you see a mistake in the following statement:

WHY DO WE GEVEN CARE ABOUT CRAP LIKE THAT!!!????

It happened the way it did. Too bad, water under the bridge, spilled milk. Move on, it's over, go home already. Why bother trying to fight it? And what's worse? That WE care. Now, I don't care about this, what bothers me is that other people do! WHY???? WHY DON'T YOU ALL JUST SHUT UP AND LIVE YOUR OWN LIFE!!!????

it seems to me that this girl was gonna get accidentally outed sooner or later. you cant be openly gay at school without it ever getting back to your family.
true, but the principal violated her privacy also.

but the part about him wanting to break up her reltationship is pretty creepy
I agree, very creepy.

it seems to me that this girl was gonna get accidentally outed sooner or later. you cant be openly gay at school without it ever getting back to your family.

but the part about him wanting to break up her reltationship is pretty creepy
maby he wanted her for himself.......
the whole story is scarry, i cant beleave that he got away with it, thats just sick

Elgesh']god almighty, but folk are daft. It's the wee girl's business, no one else's :mad:
Eggg-zactly!

true, but the principal violated her privacy also.

Where's the difference in a fellow student going home, telling his mother that he saw a gay girl kissing in school? Then, that boy's mother just happens to be friends with the girl's mother and the two talk?

Bada bing! outta the box.

It isn't discrimination, Einsteins! PDA is ALWAYS frowned upon in schools; even heterosexuals aren't allowed to blatantly have PDA's...and from the sound of it, it was going far beyond a mere PDA.

WHY DO WE GEVEN CARE ABOUT CRAP LIKE THAT!!!????


Empathy?

Isn't what he did, based entirely on the studen'ts sexual orientation I understand, illegal?
In Cali-frakking-fornia? I would think so! Good point. :)

You know, this incident got me thinking on a very important subject. So please, do correct me if you see a mistake in the following statement:

WHY DO WE GEVEN CARE ABOUT CRAP LIKE THAT!!!????

It happened the way it did. Too bad, water under the bridge, spilled milk. Move on, it's over, go home already. Why bother trying to fight it? And what's worse? That WE care. Now, I don't care about this, what bothers me is that other people do! WHY???? WHY DON'T YOU ALL JUST SHUT UP AND LIVE YOUR OWN LIFE!!!????
You're aptly named, IMHO. :p

She was a minor...although he didn't HAVE to tell her mother, it was legally his perogative.

Elgesh']Empathy?

There's a big difference.
=================================
Listen, we have to have some personal responsibility in our society. That includes the girl. If she displays affection in public, and it's revealed to someone she doesn't want to, then she has to take the consequence of her actions herself. She can't hold the school liable for HER OWN actions. Like said before, it was going to be found out anyway, whether or not the school or the principal was involved.

Now I'm not saying the principal was right in all his actions, but I AM saying that the girl cannot be played out as a victim. She did NOT have personal responsibility in her actions here, as shown by the lawsuit.

You're aptly named, IMHO. :p

Why thank you. I get that quite frequently for some reason.

There's a big difference.
=================================
Listen, we have to have some personal responsibility in our society. That includes the girl. If she displays affection in public, and it's revealed to someone she doesn't want to, then she has to take the consequence of her actions herself. She can't hold the school liable for HER OWN actions. Like said before, it was going to be found out anyway, whether or not the school or the principal was involved.

Now I'm not saying the principal was right in all his actions, but I AM saying that the girl cannot be played out as a victim. She did NOT have personal responsibility in her actions here, as shown by the lawsuit.

BRAVO!

Why bother trying to fight it? And what's worse? That WE care. Now, I don't care about this, what bothers me is that other people do! WHY???? WHY DON'T YOU ALL JUST SHUT UP AND LIVE YOUR OWN LIFE!!!????

Because we live in a nation currently under the thumb of religious fruitcakes who make everyone's private lives THEIR business? Because the fruitcakes in charge think that all gay people should die so they can burn in Hell?

It isn't discrimination, Einsteins! PDA is ALWAYS frowned upon in schools; even heterosexuals aren't allowed to blatantly have PDA's...and from the sound of it, it was going far beyond a mere PDA.
Yes, but if two students are caught hugging each other (being different sexes), chances are that they would not be reported to their parents.

I get that quite frequently for some reason.
I wonder why. :rolleyes:

Because we live in a nation currently under the thumb of religious fruitcakes who make everyone's private lives THEIR business? Because the fruitcakes in charge think that all gay people should die so they can burn in Hell?
Total misrepresentation. :rolleyes:

Yes, but if two students are caught hugging each other (being different sexes), chances are that they would not be reported to their parents.
No shit!

Yes, but if two students are caught hugging each other (being different sexes), chances are that they would not be reported to their parents.

That's not true. I have been reported several times for hugging my girlfriend at school. And yes, I'm male. And DAMNED proud of it. :rolleyes:

BRAVO!

I thank you.
=============================
Yes, but if two students are caught hugging each other (being different sexes), chances are that they would not be reported to their parents.

Don't be too hasty. I had a good relationship turned in to my parents...who didn't approve of the girl. BIG mess there. HOWEVER, once again, it was my own fault because I made it public, and got caught. No lawsuit for the school's "invasion of privacy".

*Sidenote: Turns out the girl was just looking for an easy lay.*
=======================================
I wonder why. :rolleyes:

Yes, so do I.

What I find is daft is that the mother was informed, that not only puts the student in an uncomfortable position, but also one of physical danger as well.

I'm lucky enough that I can be openly gay in my school and at home, but for many it's not as easy. Tons of parents would kill their gay children if it weren't against the law, I know this for a fact (It almost happened to a friend). That's why most gay kids with parents as such will be open in public, but not at home, their welfare actually is at state. If not just straight out violence, nurishment, clothing, etc. also fall under this catagory. It's sad and frightening, and the principal should be held accountable not only for breaking amendment rights, but also for potentially putting the girl's life in danger...

She was a minor...although he didn't HAVE to tell her mother, it was legally his perogative.
no it was not.... she was breaking no laws or endangering her self, her love life is none of his business

I thank you.
=============================


Don't be too hasty. I had a good relationship turned in to my parents...who didn't approve of the girl. BIG mess there. HOWEVER, once again, it was my own fault because I made it public, and got caught. No lawsuit for the school's "invasion of privacy".

*Sidenote: Turns out the girl was just looking for an easy lay.*
=======================================


Yes, so do I.

T'is not a problem.

no it was not.... she was breaking no laws or endangering her self, her love life is none of his business

While she is at school, she is the princepal's perogative; it was his decision whether to make it public or not. He did as he saw fit, and you should stop raising hell.

A person's sexual orientation is a personal matter and one that they should reveal to others WHEN THEY'RE READY, even if -- no, make that especially if the "others" are their parents.

I agree wholeheartedly with you Eutrusca.

That's not true. I have been reported several times for hugging my girlfriend at school. And yes, I'm male. And DAMNED proud of it. :rolleyes:
Just because your school is run by uptight wackjobs doesn't mean that that's the way it's run everywhere else.

Total misrepresentation. :rolleyes:

No not really. Quite a few of them around these days.

...Why the hell should kissing or hugging a boyfriend or girlfriend result in disciplinary action?

That principal is a jackass, I hope they're fired.
Never did understand the reasoning behind that. How else are you supposed to have a playground lover? :p (thinks of the song by Air)

In any case, that must really suck. Rather nasty of the principle too.

A person's sexual orientation is a personal matter and one that they should reveal to others WHEN THEY'RE READY, even if -- no, make that especially if the "others" are their parents.

I agree wholeheartedly with you Eutrusca.

And the girl showed she was ready when she made out in public.

It isn't discrimination, Einsteins! PDA is ALWAYS frowned upon in schools; even heterosexuals aren't allowed to blatantly have PDA's...and from the sound of it, it was going far beyond a mere PDA.

Apologies but as a Brit I am not sure I know what a PDA is. Can anyone enlighten me?

And the girl showed she was ready when she made out in public.

This is true. Besides, school is a place to LEARN not a MAKEOUT SPOT.

It isn't discrimination, Einsteins! PDA is ALWAYS frowned upon in schools; even heterosexuals aren't allowed to blatantly have PDA's...and from the sound of it, it was going far beyond a mere PDA.

Not all schools are the same. Nor do they activily police it.....

Apologies but as a Brit I am not sure I know what a PDA is. Can anyone enlighten me?

PDA=Public Display of Affection

Apologies but as a Brit I am not sure I know what a PDA is. Can anyone enlighten me?

Public Display of Affection

Because we live in a nation currently under the thumb of religious fruitcakes who make everyone's private lives THEIR business?

That's not true... not everyone anyway. They respect the privacy of people who think like them.


Because the fruitcakes in charge think that all gay people should die so they can burn in Hell?

I used white out to get it more close to home.

And the girl showed she was ready when she made out in public.

No she didnt. The Public doesnt clothe you, feed you, give you shelter, provide you with funds, etc. For a kid, your parents do. That's why it's two seperate things. I was out in the public a long time before I was out at home.

WHY DO WE GEVEN CARE ABOUT CRAP LIKE THAT!!!????


Because it is the 16th Century and the childe's parents and the Church Elders must be informed so that leeches may be applied to rid the poor girl of her bad humors that would cause her to bewitch other girls.

Not all schools are the same. Nor do they activily police it.....

Not all actively police it, but many do.

Like I said, a lot of people are overlooking the fact that there is an absence of personal responsibility and immediately say that the girl is the victim before stopping to think from all angles.

No she didnt. The Public doesnt clothe you, feed you, give you shelter, provide you with funds, etc. For a kid, your parents do. That's why it's two seperate things. I was out in the public a long time before I was out at home.

Your parents are part of the public. Private refers to ONE place...IN YOUR OWN HEAD. The moment it appears anywhere else, it can be found by anyone. If you're gay and don't want your parents to know, then keep it inside your own head.

To do anything at school or anywhere and actually BELIEVE that it won't work back to your parents is dead foolery.

Should the public be concerened about everything you do? No. That is "privacy in your own home", the public not caring all that much. But if you do it like she did, you're asking for trouble.

Like I said, a lot of people are overlooking the fact that there is an absence of personal responsibility and immediately say that the girl is the victim before stopping to think from all angles.

So what you're saying is that since she is not a victim, she's a detriment to society who should be put away? How is outing a child's sexual orientation for all to see not against the law? It is the person's right to tell who they want to tell, not anyone else's. Here's an example:

Let's say that I'm the principal and I out to everyone in the school, including your girlfriend, that you had a prosthetic penis surgically implanted at birth? Well, you should be feeling quite dandy.

My schools didn't care but that is probably because we were in poor neighborhoods so the priciples didn't have time to care about shit like two girls hugging at school. Gangs and drugs were more of a pressing issue. Although i did go to a very well off school in Wyoming for a week and I remember seeing kids hugging all the time. Thats a conservative state too. I've been to schools all up and down the west coast and not a single one cared if kids kissed or hugged at school as far as I have ever encountered.

If you look at it from many angles like Psycho said, though, you can see that it's all relative to yoru point of view. You can see it as the girls fault or you can see it as an invasion of privacy. Personally I think the Priciple is a jerkoff and should have minded his own business.

Okay..... Here's what confuses me about this story. It's bad that she was discriminated, but in the article it said that she was caught five times fer hugging/kissing her girlfriend and she was transferred to another school. Weren't her parents a little concerned on WHY she was transferred? Or did I read it wrong? Anyway, schools are dicks when it comes to censoring everyone. I had to turn a shirt inside out because it's "not appropriate for school". (The shirt had a squirrel on it holding a baseball bat standing next to peanuts with words underneath saying protect your nuts.) I don't know, it just really pisses me off. I believe there was a law passed in the 80's saying something like schools can legally censor things if they deem it to be "inappropriate" or "offensive" or some other idiotic thing...

There's a big difference.
=================================
Listen, we have to have some personal responsibility in our society.


I always love that condescending phrase.


That includes the girl. If she displays affection in public, and it's revealed to someone she doesn't want to, then she has to take the consequence of her actions herself. She can't hold the school liable for HER OWN actions. Like said before, it was going to be found out anyway, whether or not the school or the principal was involved.

Now I'm not saying the principal was right in all his actions, but I AM saying that the girl cannot be played out as a victim. She did NOT have personal responsibility in her actions here, as shown by the lawsuit.

If the principle has called parents about the activities of hetro kids then there isn't much of a problem.

I am willing to bet such calls haven't been made.

Fact of the matter remains. He didn't need to go into details. He simply had to say we discourage PDAs and need her to stop.

Hmmmm anybody want to bet he is a Christian?

So what you're saying is that since she is not a victim, she's a detriment to society who should be put away? How is outing a child's sexual orientation for all to see not against the law? It is the person's right to tell who they want to tell, not anyone else's. Here's an example:

Let's say that I'm the principal and I out to everyone in the school, including your girlfriend, that you had a prosthetic penis surgically implanted at birth? Well, you should be feeling quite dandy.

Am I supporting the principal? No, he didn't act tactfully. However, she isn't the victim she's PORTRAYED to be because she's not acted with personal responsibility. She SHOULD HAVE said "Damn, I screwed up." Then, leave it to the State of California to press charges. Should she be put away? No. Should she be taught personal responsibility? Yes.

Let's not forget, she ousted herself. It doesn't matter who told who. She told everyone. By making out publicly, SHE TOLD everyone.

And don't start with that. I have done NOTHING to warrent a personal attack, so BACK OFF. (But hypothetically, you'd have a fist in your face Mr. Principal.)

This entire situation is absolutely outrageous. It seems to me that school officials regularly overstep the bounderies of thier authority. Countless times teachers, principles, guidence councelors, and other officials take it upon themselves to tell parents about thier children "for the benefit and well being of the student". By my experience, the claims of the officials are usually grotesquely exaggerated to the point that the claim is laughable. Unless the students acts are physically or mental harmful (bullying, drug use, self-destruction) the parents should not be involved. School is one of the few places where a student can be his/her true self and this luxery should not be infringed upon.

So what you're saying is that since she is not a victim, she's a detriment to society who should be put away? How is outing a child's sexual orientation for all to see not against the law? It is the person's right to tell who they want to tell, not anyone else's. Here's an example:

Let's say that I'm the principal and I out to everyone in the school, including your girlfriend, that you had a prosthetic penis surgically implanted at birth? Well, you should be feeling quite dandy.

This is not at all the same thing. Having a prosthetic penis implanted at birth is something that cannot be controlled by the...prosthetee. Homosexuality is a choice.

Let's not forget, she ousted herself. It doesn't matter who told who. She told everyone. By making out publicly, SHE TOLD everyone.

And don't start with that. I have done NOTHING to warrent a personal attack, so BACK OFF. (But hypothetically, you'd have a fist in your face Mr. Principal.)

When you use comments like
Should she be taught personal responsibility?

It tends to be rather condescending
and many people get annoyed by people that use that phrase.

It wasn't the principles spot to give details. The fact she told her friends doesn't excuse him. All he needed to say is she violated this policy and she needs to stop. The parents then deal with it.

This entire situation is absolutely outrageous. It seems to me that school officials regularly overstep the bounderies of thier authority. Countless times teachers, principles, guidence councelors, and other officials take it upon themselves to tell parents about thier children "for the benefit and well being of the student". By my experience, the claims of the officials are usually grotesquely exaggerated to the point that the claim is laughable. Unless the students acts are physically or mental harmful (bullying, drug use, self-destruction) the parents should not be involved. School is one of the few places where a student can be his/her true self and this luxery should not be infringed upon.

You can be your true self anywhere. HOWEVER, if you reveal something you don't want someone to know in being your true self, YOU better be ready to be responsible for it, NOT the person who told someone.

Your parents are part of the public. Private refers to ONE place...IN YOUR OWN HEAD. The moment it appears anywhere else, it can be found by anyone. If you're gay and don't want your parents to know, then keep it inside your own head.
Having one person that is not you know about your sexual orientation does not give that person the right to disclose your orientation to everyone elese.

To do anything at school or anywhere and actually BELIEVE that it won't work back to your parents is dead foolery.

It seemed to be donig a damn good job until this.Should the public be concerened about everything you do? No. That is "privacy in your own home", the public not caring all that much. But if you do it like she did, you're asking for trouble.
Having one person that is not you know about your sexual orientation does not give that person the right to disclose your orientation to everyone elese.

When you use comments like


It tends to be rather condescending
and many people get annoyed by people that use that phrase.

It wasn't the principles spot to give details. The fact she told her friends doesn't excuse him. All he needed to say is she violated this policy and she needs to stop. The parents then deal with it.

Let people get annoyed. If it weren't so out of touch in today's world, it wouldn't be annoying.

Question, if one of her friends told her parents, and not a principal, would this situation be ANY different?

Would there be a lawsuit?
Would there be public attention?
Would I be typing right now?

Having one person that is not you know about your sexual orientation does not give that person the right to disclose your orientation to everyone elese.



It seemed to be donig a damn good job until this.
Having one person that is not you know about your sexual orientation does not give that person the right to disclose your orientation to everyone elese.


Maybe not, but it's gonna happen. And if YOU wanted it private, then you can only blame YOU for telling someone and not keeping it to YOURSELF.

People can't be trusted. COMMON SENSE should tell you that if you tell someone, they're gonna tell someone else. Duh.

Question, if one of her friends told her parents, and not a principal, would this situation be ANY different?
Yes.

Yes.

AND THERE'S OUR PROBLEM FOLKS!!!!!!!!!!!! THERE is our problem.

Instead of holding HER responsible, we hold someone in AUTHORITY responsible. We hold SOMEONE ELSE resonsible. THIS IS WHERE THE PROBLEM IS!!!!! Instead of saying, "gee, that wasn't too bright." we say, "well, it couldn't possibly be MY fault." We LOOK for a way to be the victim.

AND THERE'S OUR PROBLEM FOLKS!!!!!!!!!!!! THERE is our problem.

Instead of holding HER responsible, we hold someone in AUTHORITY responsible. We hold SOMEONE ELSE resonsible. THIS IS WHERE THE PROBLEM IS!!!!! Instead of saying, "gee, that wasn't too bright." we say, "well, it couldn't possibly be MY fault." We LOOK for a way to be the victim.
That's why they're in a position of authority, champ.

Let people get annoyed. If it weren't so out of touch in today's world, it wouldn't be annoying.

Then don't piss and moan about personal attacks.


Question, if one of her friends told her parents, and not a principal, would this situation be ANY different?

Most friends don't go to parents about anything unless a person was going to hurt themselves or they were getting into trouble.


Would there be a lawsuit?
Would there be public attention?
Would I be typing right now?

Strawman.

Fact remains. A school official doesn't have to police the "morality" of a student.

All he had to say was she is violating this policy and she needs to stop. He didn't have to give details.

And again. If he isn't calling on hetro students and giving details about them, then he has singled this girl out.

I disapprove of the seperate treatment on the issue.....

However, I must disagree with the court, especially the direction the potential suit will be held...

She is underage, a minor, therefore she has no "right to privacy" in regards to her parents. If she wins this suit, it creates a precedent which effectively puts an end to the position and authority of parents, or the remote possibility of parents to rely upon school administrators and teachers to inform them of their childs activities.

How is her privacy invaded when she's doing it in public? I don't see how the principal (jerk though he may be) is at fault for her mother not knowing already, there's no reason he shouldn't be allowed to tell her mother is there? Homosexual orientation be keep secret, but if they're straight, it doesn't matter if they say so? If she wasn't ready for her mom to know, she needs to rework who's important in her life, and they need to work on their mother-daughter relationship.

Unless the students acts are physically or mental harmful (bullying, drug use, self-destruction) the parents should not be involved. School is one of the few places where a student can be his/her true self and this luxery should not be infringed upon.
Don't the parents have a right to know something (not necesarily orientation, but you sound as though there public life should be kept totally secret from the parents) about their own kids?

Besides, most parents would likely ask for details...

PDA=Public Display of Affection

And that's forbidden in some schools? Wow... :eek:

That's why they're in a position of authority, champ.

BINGO!

Yes.:sniper:

Why do you refuse to attach blame to the person who commits the act? If I shot and killed, say, your mother, would you say that it wasn't ME who shot and killed your mother, rather it was a cop who didn't stop me? It's ridiculous!

If I were her, I would have told the principal to suck my dick and at least go out in style. Well, it sounds good in my head at any rate.

That's why they're in a position of authority, champ.

Okay, according to your statement, this is the rule:

"People of authority are there to take the fall for my mistakes, regardless of how dumb I was."

AND THERE'S OUR PROBLEM FOLKS!!!!!!!!!!!! THERE is our problem.

Instead of holding HER responsible, we hold someone in AUTHORITY responsible. We hold SOMEONE ELSE resonsible. THIS IS WHERE THE PROBLEM IS!!!!! Instead of saying, "gee, that wasn't too bright." we say, "well, it couldn't possibly be MY fault." We LOOK for a way to be the victim.
Neither person has a right to out her as a homosexual; however, the principles, as authority, has an expectation of responsibility. It is an arbitrary, unwritten part of his job not to out her. To do so is irresponsible and unbecoming of his position.

AND THERE'S OUR PROBLEM FOLKS!!!!!!!!!!!! THERE is our problem.

Instead of holding HER responsible, we hold someone in AUTHORITY responsible. We hold SOMEONE ELSE resonsible. THIS IS WHERE THE PROBLEM IS!!!!! Instead of saying, "gee, that wasn't too bright." we say, "well, it couldn't possibly be MY fault." We LOOK for a way to be the victim.
Neither person has a right to out her as a homosexual; however, the principles, as authority, has an expectation of responsibility. It is an arbitrary, unwritten part of his job not to out her. To do so is irresponsible and unbecoming of his position.

And why the fuck would she be responsible?

This is not at all the same thing. Having a prosthetic penis implanted at birth is something that cannot be controlled by the...prosthetee. Homosexuality is a choice.

Homosexuality is not a choice. You are either born a homosexual or you are not. Trust me, who in their right mind would choose to be discriminated, hated, abused for having a certain preference?? No one.

Don't the parents have a right to know somethingabout their own kids?

That's between the teenager and his/her parents, though, isn't it? It's breathtakingly arrogant of anyone to interfere in their relationship - you almost make it sound as though there was no opportunity for the parents to find out by simply involving themselves more in their kid's life! :p

OK, I know that's not what you _meant_, but still, the point remains; if it was any of the principle's business in the first place, he should have arranged a quiet talk with the girl before doing anything. As a responsible adult, he should have known how difficult it can be for a gay person to 'come out' to their parents, and proceeded with appropriate care and caution.

Homosexuality is not a choice. You are either born a homosexual or you are not. Trust me, who in their right mind would choose to be discriminated, hated, abused for having a certain preference?? No one.
Holy fucking shit! How can it NOT be a choice? Name one other creature on earth that commits homosexuality. There aren't any, and don't say that asexual reproduction is homosexuality, because it's not!

COMMENTARY: Any way you look at it, this just totally unacceptable. I think this says it all: "... gay kids expressing affection are not treated the way straight kids are." I don't give a crap if seeing kids the same sex holding hands gives you the willies, that's your problem. But to "out" the child to her ( or his ) mother is dispicable.

I agree man. I think it's spelled "despicable", but nonetheless I agree.

Okay, according to your statement, this is the rule:

"People of authority are there to take the fall for my mistakes, regardless of how dumb I was."


If you overstep your bounds, sure.

If you don't report the details of hetro students, then sure!

How is her privacy invaded when she's doing it in public? I don't see how the principal (jerk though he may be) is at fault for her mother not knowing already, there's no reason he shouldn't be allowed to tell her mother is there? Homosexual orientation be keep secret, but if they're straight, it doesn't matter if they say so? If she wasn't ready for her mom to know, she needs to rework who's important in her life, and they need to work on their mother-daughter relationship.

Unless the students acts are physically or mental harmful (bullying, drug use, self-destruction) the parents should not be involved. School is one of the few places where a student can be his/her true self and this luxery should not be infringed upon.
Don't the parents have a right to know something (not necesarily orientation, but you sound as though there public life should be kept totally secret from the parents) about their own kids?

Besides, most parents would likely ask for details...

And WHY has no one else seen this yet??? Maybe he DID leave out the details. And then the PARENTS asked for details. Oh my gosh!!! What a concept!!!!!

:Holy fucking shit! How can it NOT be a choice? Name one other creature on earth that commits homosexuality. There aren't any, and don't say that asexual reproduction is homosexuality, because it's not!!


So then you admit that you chose to be straight and resist your attraction to the same sex and urge to have hot gay sex?

Holy fucking shit! How can it NOT be a choice? Name one other creature on earth that commits homosexuality. There aren't any, and don't say that asexual reproduction is homosexuality, because it's not!

lol!

Bonobo chimps, geese, several species of insects, penguins, some baboons, and a host of other animals have all been documented engaging in homosexual liasons. It's very common!

edit: I _love_ the use of the verb 'to commit' in this context, btw :p

If you overstep your bounds, sure.

If you don't report the details of hetro students, then sure!

No, you're avoiding the point. Right, wrong, or indifferent, put the principal aside and focus on what was stated.

So then you admit that you chose to be straight and resist your attraction to the same sex and urge to have hot gay sex?

For some people, yes.

So then you admit that you chose to be straight and resist your attraction to the same sex and urge to have hot gay sex?

Quite simply: DAMN STRAIGHT! I am in love with a beautiful young woman whom I will soon marry, and my best friend is a girl.

Elgesh']lol!

Bonobo chimps, geese, several species of insects, penguins, some baboons, and a host of other animals have all been documented engaging in homosexual liasons. It's very common!

edit: I _love_ the use of the verb 'to commit' in this context, btw :p

Maybe I haven't checked my literature in too long. Whatever the case...Ack! I've been outwitted. :eek:

Quite simply: DAMN STRAIGHT! I am in love with a beautiful young woman whom I will soon marry, and my best friend is a girl.

Psst...no offense, but your counter-argument made no sense...

For some people, yes.

For you?

i don't dispute that maybe some people are bisexual and don't allow themselves to do what is socially unacceptable. But it does sound like youa re admittign that it is not a choice for most people.

If I were her, I would have told the principal to suck my dick and at least go out in style. Well, it sounds good in my head at any rate.
youve been watching GI Jane again havent you?

lesbians dont have dicks. that would just be a silly thing to say. she'd have to say "eat my pussy" or something.

i still think he's creepy.

Holy fucking shit! How can it NOT be a choice? Name one other creature on earth that commits homosexuality. There aren't any, and don't say that asexual reproduction is homosexuality, because it's not!

Despite my stance, this is stupid. It's not a choice, I have homosexual friends, why don't you try asking one?

Quite simply: DAMN STRAIGHT! I am in love with a beautiful young woman whom I will soon marry, and my best friend is a girl.


lol - how did that answer my question? Did you just say that you resist your attraction to have hot gay man sex?

Plus - oh yeah, I forgot to addres your very ridiculous argument that there is no other creature on Earth that engages in homosexual sex. Well someone else already did that, but come on, do you live under a rock? How do you get internet under there?

Maybe I haven't checked my literature in too long. Whatever the case...Ack! I've been outwitted. :eek:
Nae bother, pal :) I've been faffing about on a comparitive psychology course at uni lately, that's all! Fact remains though, there does seem to be a more fundamental 'reason' for the existence of gay folk than simple choice :)

Psst...no offense, but your counter-argument made no sense...
It wasn't a counter, I was answering a question; the statement was:

So then you admit that you chose to be straight and resist your attraction to the same sex and urge to have hot gay sex?

Therefore, yes I choose to be straight.

youve been watching GI Jane again havent you?

lesbians dont have dicks. that would just be a silly thing to say. she'd have to say "eat my pussy" or something.

i still think he's creepy.

And that still wouldn't work right, because considering how creepy he seems to be, he probably wants to do that...


EDIT: although, she could have a strap-on ;)

No, you're avoiding the point. Right, wrong, or indifferent, put the principal aside and focus on what was stated.

And you are overlooking the point that there are a great many details missing.

Does this principle have issues over icky gay people? California has rules about that.

Does he call on the activitives over hetro students?

Does he have hetro students transfered over similar matters?

For you?

i don't dispute that maybe some people are bisexual and don't allow themselves to do what is socially unacceptable. But it does sound like youa re admittign that it is not a choice for most people.

For me? no, It takes all my self-discipline to not start grabbing the ass of the girl who sits next to me in history. (Really, I've almost lost 6 times!!!)<--That would've been reported.

But yes, I know several who are bisexual like that. Only...they seem to choose to go with it.....ugh, bad memories.

Any you are overlooking the point that there are a great many details missing.

Does this principle have issues over icky gay people? California has rules about that.

Does he call on the activitives over hetro students?

Does he have hetro students transfered over similar matters?

He might. But the again, it could've been the PARENTS who wanted info.

He probably does. And those PARENTS probably ask for info. too.

He might, I don't know. (Though he could save his skin by starting that policy)

Elgesh']Nae bother, pal :) I've been faffing about on a comparitive psychology course at uni lately, that's all! Fact remains though, there does seem to be a more fundamental 'reason' for the existence of gay folk than simple choice :)

I find it hard to believe. First of all, if one goes simply by evolutionary standpoint (I'm creationist, personally), what is the use of homosexuality to advancement of the species? The answer is, it doesn't! If homosexuality is genetic, it would have died out long ago as homosexuals CANNOT have children! By Creationism, it's a matter of choice between heterosexuality and homosexuality.

youve been watching GI Jane again havent you?

lesbians dont have dicks. that would just be a silly thing to say. she'd have to say "eat my pussy" or something.

i still think he's creepy.

Well, she could get a strap-on! I know women don't have dicks. Yes, I did see GI Jane for the first time recently, but that is something I have said even before I saw the movie. It's the idea of basically telling the bastard to eff off. Not that it's something I would truly recommend, like I said it sounded good in my head.

I find it hard to believe. First of all, if one goes simply by evolutionary standpoint (I'm creationist, personally), what is the use of homosexuality to advancement of the species? The answer is, it doesn't! If homosexuality is genetic, it would have died out long ago as homosexuals CANNOT have children! By Creationism, it's a matter of choice between heterosexuality and homosexuality.


This is actually a whole other thread. And there are thousands just like it, search them out and see from a more informed perspective.

Your parents are part of the public. Private refers to ONE place...IN YOUR OWN HEAD. The moment it appears anywhere else, it can be found by anyone. If you're gay and don't want your parents to know, then keep it inside your own head.

To do anything at school or anywhere and actually BELIEVE that it won't work back to your parents is dead foolery.

Should the public be concerened about everything you do? No. That is "privacy in your own home", the public not caring all that much. But if you do it like she did, you're asking for trouble.

Please, the fact that she had a smooch in public is hardly what I would call 'fair game' - for all you know, she could have been waiting for the right time to tell her mother! hell, it could have been *that* day she wanted to tell her.

Oh, and as for 'telling parents' - please, shot the bullshit, how many as teenagers, rushed home, and gave their mum and dad heads up on the latest gossip and happenings at the school? I sure as hell didn't my parents a damn thing, because quite frankly, it was none of their bloody business.

As for the principal; how did he know that she's a lesbian? did she come forward to the principal and devulge the information? if that is the case, it has the same privilage as a counsellor - as long as the person isn't harming his or herself, or anyone else for that matter, the issue remains between the two.

IF he came to the conclusion based on RUMOURS, then that would be libel based on perceived sexual orientation; and I'll put money on it, if this was a straight kid being branded as a lesbian, all hell would broken loose.

I find it hard to believe. First of all, if one goes simply by evolutionary standpoint (I'm creationist, personally), what is the use of homosexuality to advancement of the species? The answer is, it doesn't! If homosexuality is genetic, it would have died out long ago as homosexuals CANNOT have children! By Creationism, it's a matter of choice between heterosexuality and homosexuality.

Thats ridiculous.

Just because a trait hinders a species or cannot be directly passed on does not neceserily mean it is not passed on. Try reading up on basic genetics.

And as for your choosing to be straight ? I find that considerably harder to be believe than... something very veyr hard to believe, i don't know i'm basically saying what you've said is rubbish, just very ineloquantly.

Well, she could get a strap-on! I know women don't have dicks. Yes, I did see GI Jane for the first time recently, but that is something I have said even before I saw the movie. It's the idea of basically telling the bastard to eff off. Not that it's something I would truly recommend, like I said it sounded good in my head.

Yeah, "eat my pussie" is too normal. I'd be like: "HELL YEAH!!!!!"

I find it hard to believe. First of all, if one goes simply by evolutionary standpoint (I'm creationist, personally), what is the use of homosexuality to advancement of the species? The answer is, it doesn't! If homosexuality is genetic, it would have died out long ago as homosexuals CANNOT have children! By Creationism, it's a matter of choice between heterosexuality and homosexuality.

Homosexuality is not based on a single gene - it's a very complex issue based on genetic and most likely environmental influences. That's why heterosexuals have homosexual children.

Besides, homosexuals CAN have children. They are not infertile.

He might. But the again, it could've been the PARENTS who wanted info.

He probably does. And those PARENTS probably ask for info. too.

He might, I don't know. (Though he could save his skin by starting that policy)

All in all more info is needed as to the whole matter.

The fact it's a running feud for over year says details are missing.

Again. I am willing to bet there are no calls over hetro students. But schools are different. In mine, the only time you got your parents called is if you were dumb enough to have sex in the back of a car at school. Some actually did. :D

This is actually a whole other thread. And there are thousands just like it, search them out and see from a more informed perspective.

You are calling me uninformed? I've researched this for five years. If I'm uninformed, then you're uninitiated.

Besides, homosexuals CAN have children. They are not infertile.

Yeah, but how many, apart from those in the sadomasochist scene, would deliberately go out and wreck their own life by having children?

You are calling me uninformed? I've researched this for five years. If I'm uninformed, then you're uninitiated.
By this what do you mean exactly ?

Please, the fact that she had a smooch in public is hardly what I would call 'fair game' - for all you know, she could have been waiting for the right time to tell her mother! hell, it could have been *that* day she wanted to tell her.

Oh, and as for 'telling parents' - please, shot the bullshit, how many as teenagers, rushed home, and gave their mum and dad heads up on the latest gossip and happenings at the school? I sure as hell didn't my parents a damn thing, because quite frankly, it was none of their bloody business.

As for the principal; how did he know that she's a lesbian? did she come forward to the principal and devulge the information? if that is the case, it has the same privilage as a counsellor - as long as the person isn't harming his or herself, or anyone else for that matter, the issue remains between the two.

IF he came to the conclusion based on RUMOURS, then that would be libel based on perceived sexual orientation; and I'll put money on it, if this was a straight kid being branded as a lesbian, all hell would broken loose.

She could have been. But you know what, she should've told her FIRST, instead of letting it come out to her after the FIFTH OFFENSE.

How many do?? I know I do, I know most of my friends do, hell, everyone where I live allows their parents to know what's going on.

How did the principal know? Probably cause he saw her:eek: . As stated, the PARENTS could have asked for details. Quite frankly, we don't know, and the parents wouldn't admit cause they'd loose the lawsuit.

Homosexuality is not based on a single gene - it's a very complex issue based on genetic and most likely environmental influences. That's why heterosexuals have homosexual children.

Besides, homosexuals CAN have children. They are not infertile.

No, homosexuals, as in two homosexuals, cannot have children by screwing each other. It's just not physically possible. Even if it is a result of environment, to have a homosexual mother or father and a heterosexual other parent would not likely be an environment conducive to homosexuality.

You are calling me uninformed? I've researched this for five years. If I'm uninformed, then you're uninitiated.

If you claim that homosexuals can't have children then you are indeed uninformed.

You are calling me uninformed? I've researched this for five years. If I'm uninformed, then you're uninitiated.

lol, weren't you the one that said no creature on earth exhibits homosexual behavior? Tell me, where have you been researching this... the Christian pamphlet rack at the local church?

By this what do you mean exactly ?
By which I mean that if I'm uninformed on this topic, Sumamba has no practical knowledge whatsoever.

All in all more info is needed as to the whole matter.

The fact it's a running feud for over year says details are missing.

Again. I am willing to bet there are no calls over hetro students. But schools are different. In mine, the only time you got your parents called is if you were dumb enough to have sex in the back of a car at school. Some actually did. :D

Good points. I doubt there IS enough information for this debate to stay legitimate.

My school has a PDA zero-tolerance policy. I got in trouble for holding hands with my gf. I don't know. We'd have to do research, and which NSer is gonna do that for a small debate :p

I find it hard to believe. First of all, if one goes simply by evolutionary standpoint (I'm creationist, personally), what is the use of homosexuality to advancement of the species? The answer is, it doesn't! If homosexuality is genetic, it would have died out long ago as homosexuals CANNOT have children! By Creationism, it's a matter of choice between heterosexuality and homosexuality.

Well, there we differ - evolution allows a ton of arguments for homosexuality to recur throughout the generations. The existence of recessive carrier alleles of genes; the likelihood that any genetic basis for homosexuality is likely to be multi-gene rather than single gene (and therefore much less prone to 'dying out'); the VERY adaptive strategy of having a few adults in your tribe/group who as childless aunts and uncles to your kids will help them out (raising the overall % of children who live to adulthood, even though there might be fewer kids to start with); as a means of population control, even (though I think that one might be a bit spurious, myself). And those are just the arguments I can think of off the top of my head!

However, because we're working in different paradigms (evolution versus creationism), I don't think we'll be able to have a very meaningful discussion on this point very easily, and will probably derail the thread topic :( But if the point comes up on a more approproate thread, I'll see you there? :)

No, homosexuals, as in two homosexuals, cannot have children by screwing each other. It's just not physically possible. Even if it is a result of environment, to have a homosexual mother or father and a heterosexual other parent would not likely be an environment conducive to homosexuality.
It has long been held the duty of every male homosexual or otherwise to have children to carry on their family line, this is conducive of homosexuals having children thank you.

And if a single homosexual parent isnt conducive to environmental homosexuality, why is it that they occour naturally in families with two heterosexual parents ? Either it's more complex than you make out or my parents are hiding something from me.

lol, weren't you the one that said no creature on earth exhibits homosexual behavior? Tell me, where have you been researching this... the Christian pamphlet rack at the local church?
I said that I haven't checked the literature on the subject recently. I don't even go to church.

lol, weren't you the one that said no creature on earth exhibits homosexual behavior? Tell me, where have you been researching this... the Christian pamphlet rack at the local church?

Please stay above flaming. That is not necessary.

No, homosexuals, as in two homosexuals, cannot have children by screwing each other. It's just not physically possible. Even if it is a result of environment, to have a homosexual mother or father and a heterosexual other parent would not likely be an environment conducive to homosexuality.


It's a non-issue. What they tend to do is either adopt or find a man do "donate" (lesbians). Heck I know of 2 lesbians that asked a gay man to make a "donation" to the cause.

I am not following the rest of what you said.....

lol, weren't you the one that said no creature on earth exhibits homosexual behavior? Tell me, where have you been researching this... the Christian pamphlet rack at the local church?

I would like to mention that my dog exhibits extreme examples of homosexual nature and a bit of confusion when it comies to different species as well. Ever seen a dog try to hump a hamster? I have. My dog is gay.

No, homosexuals, as in two homosexuals, cannot have children by screwing each other. It's just not physically possible. Even if it is a result of environment, to have a homosexual mother or father and a heterosexual other parent would not likely be an environment conducive to homosexuality.

With environmental influences I mean hormones during pregnancy and stuff. Social influences are environmental too, but are unlikely to play a great part here - except maybe a very a short time after birth.

It has long been held the duty of every male homosexual or otherwise to have children to carry on their family line, this is conducive of homosexuals having children thank you.

And if a single homosexual parent isnt conducive to environmental homosexuality, why is it that they occour naturally in families with two heterosexual parents ? Either it's more complex than you make out or my parents are hiding something from me.

I don't know what's happened in your personal life, nor is it my problem. I'm simply saying that perhaps homosexuality is a recessive gene, if indeed it is even genetic. However, I do not believe this is the case.

The thing with this is, you can't really compare it to straight issues. Even though technically you should be able to. I mean, if a principal tells the girl's parents she's straight because she was seen kissing her boyfriend, then they just think he's really weird. But if he tells them she's a lesbian because she was kissing her girlfriend, then that's a totally different issue. We SHOULD be able to compare gay issues to straight parallels for legal arguments, but sadly, we can't. Yet.

The other thing is people keep saying that she can't complain about privacy because her actions were public. But remember—she AND her girlfriend were suspended! Due to sexual orientation. Now THAT is a problem; of course, I personally believe that he had no right to out her to her mother either, but for the sake of the argument, that's what I would like to point out

This Is Not A Thread To Argue Homosexuality!!! I Don't Want To Argue That!!! Please Do That In Another Thread!!!!

I find it hard to believe. First of all, if one goes simply by evolutionary standpoint (I'm creationist, personally), what is the use of homosexuality to advancement of the species? The answer is, it doesn't! If homosexuality is genetic, it would have died out long ago as homosexuals CANNOT have children! By Creationism, it's a matter of choice between heterosexuality and homosexuality.

One big problem with your argument is that you assume everything is orderly. *Hint* random mutation

We still have mules don't we?

This Is Not A Thread To Argue Homosexuality!!! I Don't Want To Argue That!!! Please Do That In Another Thread!!!!

You're right, sorry.

I don't know what's happened in your personal life, nor is it my problem. I'm simply saying that perhaps homosexuality is a recessive gene, if indeed it is even genetic. However, I do not believe this is the case.

Then it wouldn't exist in the animal world and yet it does.

I don't know what's happened in your personal life, nor is it my problem. I'm simply saying that perhaps homosexuality is a recessive gene, if indeed it is even genetic. However, I do not believe this is the case.
Well if it is not genetic then i can only be one of two things, a factor borne of the childs upbrining or a physical choice that they have conciously made.

Neither of these are even remotely plausible, i woul love to hear any credible evidence to the contrary.

PS. my personal life has never come into this, you appear to have missed my point.

The thing with this is, you can't really compare it to straight issues. Even though technically you should be able to. I mean, if a principal tells the girl's parents she's straight because she was seen kissing her boyfriend, then they just think he's really weird. But if he tells them she's a lesbian because she was kissing her girlfriend, then that's a totally different issue. We SHOULD be able to compare gay issues to straight parallels for legal arguments, but sadly, we can't. Yet.

The other thing is people keep saying that she can't complain about privacy because her actions were public. But remember—she AND her girlfriend were suspended! Due to sexual orientation. Now THAT is a problem; of course, I personally believe that he had no right to out her to her mother either, but for the sake of the argument, that's what I would like to point out

No, my understanding is that they were suspeneded due to a PDA policy infringment. And like I said, please consider that the PARENTS could've asked for details. COMMON SENSE!!! LOOK AT ALL ANGLES!!!

This Is Not A Thread To Argue Homosexuality!!! I Don't Want To Argue That!!! Please Do That In Another Thread!!!!

Sorry but you are the victim of a thread hijacking! :p

I find it hard to believe. First of all, if one goes simply by evolutionary standpoint (I'm creationist, personally), what is the use of homosexuality to advancement of the species? The answer is, it doesn't! If homosexuality is genetic, it would have died out long ago as homosexuals CANNOT have children! By Creationism, it's a matter of choice between heterosexuality and homosexuality.
Son, u jus' gonna hafta trust me on this one.

I've known several gay people in my time and not one of them thought their sexuality was a choice. And, after seeing what some of them endured ( expecially years ago ), I tend to think that no mere "decision" could ever induce someone to endure that sort of treatment.

This is one of the reasons that I lean toward completely equal treatment for all gays. So far, there has been no substantive scientific proof that homosexuality is either genetic, or is somehow inherited ( at least, not that I know of ), but if it isn't then we need to hire all the gay people as mercenaries 'cause they got more courage than 99% of the heterosexual population!

One big problem with your argument is that you assume everything is orderly. *Hint* random mutation

We still have mules don't we?

I contend that nothing in the universe is random.

Mules are different. Mules are the offspring of horses and donkeys. Horses and donkeys are different species; but they can successfully reproduce. However, mules in themselves cannot reproduce.

What exactly happened?

Two cute lesbian schoolgirls hug and kiss each other instead of dealing drugs or bullying other students. And what happens? One of them (why only one?) gets transferred to another school as punishment.

I mean... doesn't that sound weird somehow? :confused:

This Is Not A Thread To Argue Homosexuality!!! I Don't Want To Argue That!!! Please Do That In Another Thread!!!!
Well the topic itself a bit damn simple.

1)the childs mother should not have been informed against the childs will
2)the child should not have been forcibly removed from her girlfreind unless all such contact was forbidden to all types of relationship
3)the school had a duty to report the infraction fair or otherwise to the parents. the fact that the information they were discolsing was of such a personal nature merely adds credence to the idea that the disciplnary action was unfair.

It isn't discrimination, Einsteins! PDA is ALWAYS frowned upon in schools; even heterosexuals aren't allowed to blatantly have PDA's...and from the sound of it, it was going far beyond a mere PDA.

I live in Va, one of the long standing conservative states, and the teachers could care less about PDA. Heck, its been getting more lenient from what I see. It isn't anyone's place to decide what is an appropriate realtionship, or what should be disclosed to one's parents. If I decide not to disclose my own relationship with my girlfriend, it should be my right.

This Is Not A Thread To Argue Homosexuality!!! I Don't Want To Argue That!!! Please Do That In Another Thread!!!!
[ taps PP on the shoulder ] Um ... it's my thread and I think that if people posting in it want to discuss homosexuality in general, they should go ahead and do so. Thank you for your consideration in this matter. :)

I said that I haven't checked the literature on the subject recently. I don't even go to church.


how recently? because homosexual behavior in animals has been widely documented for many years.

yous aid you studied it for five years? how old were you? I can't imagine you having studied it that long and not have seen this, unless like I said it had been from some very biased material and since you believe in creation and you say the say thing that I hear from other Christians that it seems that is where you got your information.

I contend that nothing in the universe is random.


Every looked at chaos theory?


Mules are different. Mules are the offspring of horses and donkeys. Horses and donkeys are different species; but they can successfully reproduce. However, mules in themselves cannot reproduce.

Point is they still happen. Homosexuality has been recorded for what 4000 years? and yet it continues.

No, my understanding is that they were suspeneded due to a PDA policy infringment. And like I said, please consider that the PARENTS could've asked for details. COMMON SENSE!!! LOOK AT ALL ANGLES!!!
Somehow I seriously doubt that a straight couple at the same school who were openly in a relationship would be suspended.

Anyway, this is totally unacceptable. Particularly for California! Actually, there's been this thing lately at the local high school, the only out gay guy in the school has been getting rocks thrown at him. Like, rock rocks. Not just pebbles. He went to the staff and they wouldn't do anything, told him if he wanted to be openly gay it was his problem to deal with the side affects. They said the same thing when he went to the flipping POLICE...

What exactly happened?

Two cute lesbian schoolgirls hug and kiss each other instead of dealing drugs or bullying other students. And what happens? One of them (why only one?) gets transferred to another school as punishment.

I mean... doesn't that sound weird somehow? :confused:
Which goes a long way toward explaining why I posted the damned article in the first place. :D

I contend that nothing in the universe is random.

Mules are different. Mules are the offspring of horses and donkeys. Horses and donkeys are different species; but they can successfully reproduce. However, mules in themselves cannot reproduce.
No random things ? Therefore no free choice, therefore the Bible and christian faith make very little sense, to me at least.

Homosexuality is not a choice. You are either born a homosexual or you are not. Trust me, who in their right mind would choose to be discriminated, hated, abused for having a certain preference?? No one.

Jewish people. Not to be a condensating attack, just stating a fact. And they've been going strong for 5000+ years.
============================================================

I suppose I'll get this out of the way -- the Principal was a bit of a dick in the way he went about his actions.

However, he was right to do what he did. Evidentally, she was a repeat offender of the PDA rules, so why not call? It is a policy of a lot of schools to inform the parents (in full detail) of a kid's actions after repeat offences.

Also, legally, the parents have a right to know, considering she's a dependent and legally guarded by her parents. And I feel that the parents NEED to know, but that's me.

And I agree with Pschycotic Pschycos on this one. I hope the lawsuit is struck down for the girl's own lack of personal responsibility. Making out in public does not constitute privacy. As the NS issue goes: "If you're in public, people can see you!.

I contend that nothing in the universe is random.

Mules are different. Mules are the offspring of horses and donkeys. Horses and donkeys are different species; but they can successfully reproduce. However, mules in themselves cannot reproduce.

Oh shit, man; I'm gonna look like a jerk. I was at a similar debate in uni on nature/nurture, near the beginning of the semester. It turns out mules can successfully mate... It doesn't happen often, but it _is_ possible... sorry...

Son, u jus' gonna hafta trust me on this one.

I've known several gay people in my time and not one of them thought their sexuality was a choice. And, after seeing what some of them endured ( expecially years ago ), I tend to think that no mere "decision" could ever induce someone to endure that sort of treatment.

This is one of the reasons that I lean toward completely equal treatment for all gays. So far, there has been no substantive scientific proof that homosexuality is either genetic, or is somehow inherited ( at least, not that I know of ), but if it isn't then we need to hire all the gay people as mercenaries 'cause they got more courage than 99% of the heterosexual population!

In your opinion, perhaps this is so. However, you do contend that there is NO evidence whatsoever to support your arguements, and can we please return to the topic at hand?

Son, u jus' gonna hafta trust me on this one.

I've known several gay people in my time and not one of them thought their sexuality was a choice. And, after seeing what some of them endured ( expecially years ago ), I tend to think that no mere "decision" could ever induce someone to endure that sort of treatment.

This is one of the reasons that I lean toward completely equal treatment for all gays. So far, there has been no substantive scientific proof that homosexuality is either genetic, or is somehow inherited ( at least, not that I know of ), but if it isn't then we need to hire all the gay people as mercenaries 'cause they got more courage than 99% of the heterosexual population!
You may be right, you may be wrong, we don't know. If that's what you believe, then God bless you. However, a lot of people don't accept homosexuality as a valid lifestyle, and don't want them to do stuff like marry each other. I'm one of them. I believe it is a sin, and that's that.

But if you're homosexual, and you want to fight for your cause, then God bless you. You live in America and have that right. Just recognize and respect that WE have a right to disagree as well.

Don't state that they're more courageous, because they're a lot of people who are like that. Anyone who disregards "political correctness" has courage in this day and age.

Elgesh']Oh shit, man; I'm gonna look like a jerk. I was at a similar debate in uni on nature/nurture, near the beginning of the semester. It turns out mules can successfully mate... It doesn't happen often, but it _is_ possible... sorry...


Actually I have heard of it. Never looked into the facts so I didn't mention it as I didn't have anywhere to point that out......

Somehow I seriously doubt that a straight couple at the same school who were openly in a relationship would be suspended.

Anyway, this is totally unacceptable. Particularly for California! Actually, there's been this thing lately at the local high school, the only out gay guy in the school has been getting rocks thrown at him. Like, rock rocks. Not just pebbles. He went to the staff and they wouldn't do anything, told him if he wanted to be openly gay it was his problem to deal with the side affects. They said the same thing when he went to the flipping POLICE...

Well, it's true.

You may be right, you may be wrong, we don't know. If that's what you believe, then God bless you. However, a lot of people don't accept homosexuality as a valid lifestyle, and don't want them to do stuff like marry each other. I'm one of them. I believe it is a sin, and that's that.

But if you're homosexual, and you want to fight for your cause, then God bless you. You live in America and have that right. Just recognize and respect that WE have a right to disagree as well.

Don't state that they're more courageous, because they're a lot of people who are like that. Anyone who disregards "political correctness" has courage in this day and age.
You believe its wrong, fair enough. But you dont have the right to stop those who do not believe its wrong. This isn't like murder, they aren't affecting you, you have no power over them and should not try to exert any.

Jewish people. Not to be a condensating attack, just stating a fact. And they've been going strong for 5000+ years.
Your comment reveals a lack of knowledge.

Jews, for the most part, not only share the same religion, but largely the same genetic makeup.

Elgesh']Oh shit, man; I'm gonna look like a jerk. I was at a similar debate in uni on nature/nurture, near the beginning of the semester. It turns out mules can successfully mate... It doesn't happen often, but it _is_ possible... sorry...

DAMN. Ding ding ding! Next dumbass comment: Ten minutes! Tickets $5 each!

how recently? because homosexual behavior in animals has been widely documented for many years.

Indeed. I have a dog who's gay.

In your opinion, perhaps this is so. However, you do contend that there is NO evidence whatsoever to support your arguements, and can we please return to the topic at hand?
Does it look like I'm stopping you somehow? :)

Christ, just transfer anyone caught within a foot of another student.

Christ, just transfer anyone caught within a foot of another student.
ROFLMAO!!! Grounds for a revolution! Yayyy! :D

Jewish people. Not to be a condensating attack, just stating a fact. And they've been going strong for 5000+ years.
============================================================

I suppose I'll get this out of the way -- the Principal was a bit of a dick in the way he went about his actions.

However, he was right to do what he did. Evidentally, she was a repeat offender of the PDA rules, so why not call? It is a policy of a lot of schools to inform the parents (in full detail) of a kid's actions after repeat offences.

Also, legally, the parents have a right to know, considering she's a dependent and legally guarded by her parents. And I feel that the parents NEED to know, but that's me.

And I agree with Pschycotic Pschycos on this one. I hope the lawsuit is struck down for the girl's own lack of personal responsibility. Making out in public does not constitute privacy. As the NS issue goes: "If you're in public, people can see you!.

Very good points that I agree with. Thank you.

And the ONLY reason that I think it should be struck down is for Personal Responsiblity. If the State of California had pressed discrimination charges, I'd be all for it.

You believe its wrong, fair enough. But you dont have the right to stop those who do not believe its wrong. This isn't like murder, they aren't affecting you, you have no power over them and should not try to exert any.

I also think I should be allowed to hunt with an automatic rifle, but there's those people who, THOUGH IT DOESN"T AFFECT THEM, don't want me to.

ROFLMAO!!! Grounds for a revolution! Yayyy! :D

Ahh, but you cannot organise a revolution properly when you cannot get close to anyone else... When things look like they're going to get revolution-ey, bump the distance to ten feet and bump the punishment to deportation :D

DAMN. Ding ding ding! Next dumbass comment: Ten minutes! Tickets $5 each!

lol, good one! :p <votes for this fine, good-humoured fellow in... that... voting... thing I just made up for him :D>

Well, it's true.
WHAT ! So if you moved to somewhere or other, like Zimbabwe(sp) and they took exception to the colour of your skin, you believe that its your problem, and that you deserve no protection from authority to stop those that do not like you abusing you ? After all, its the same thing, you could change and try to fit in but theyd still know and theyd carry on, it couldnt be taken back.

Sexual Orientation is a personal choice for everyone. Privacy is your right no matter who you are or how old you are. People in a position of power should not be allowed to take matters of Sexual Orientation of a Minor into their own hands and tell the parents. This girl who was showing PDA towards her girlfriend was a teenager (and as far as im concerned old enough to make her own decisions) and the Principal as far as im concerned shouldn't have had the right to tell the parents about her personal life. I dont believe that ANYONE has the right to assume that they are instantly allowed to tell a parent their child is a homosexual just because they have shown PDA. It is all up to the child. This girl should have been allowed to tell her parents in her own sweet time, when she felt ready and comfortable, because as some of you said the parents may have had alot of trouble coming to terms with the fact that their child was gay, and yes it probably could have put the girl in danger. This girl was not doing anyone in the public any harm by showing PDA towards her girlfriend, and its the same for heterosexual couples. NO SCHOOL should take away a persons right to have a boyfriend or girlfriend. It is a normal and natural part of life, and if you cant love, you cant like, and therefore you are less likely to become a productive or willing member of society. And nobody should ever get in trouble for showing PDA.

Christ, just transfer anyone caught within a foot of another student.

Hmmmm...Homeschool America......I like the ring of that.

(Ankhmet, get on our damn thread already!!!)

I also think I should be allowed to hunt with an automatic rifle, but there's those people who, THOUGH IT DOESN"T AFFECT THEM, don't want me to.
Terrible counter arguement, those people dont want you hunting with an automatic rifle because they dont want it to affect them, because if it does its going to in a way thats going to kill them, which i'm sure they are very much against.

Perhaps when a student reached the age of 16, this shoul become irrelevant? Just let the older kids show 'PDA', but punish the younger kids in much harsher ways :)

You may be right, you may be wrong, we don't know. If that's what you believe, then God bless you. However, a lot of people don't accept homosexuality as a valid lifestyle, and don't want them to do stuff like marry each other. I'm one of them. I believe it is a sin, and that's that.

But if you're homosexual, and you want to fight for your cause, then God bless you. You live in America and have that right. Just recognize and respect that WE have a right to disagree as well.

Don't state that they're more courageous, because they're a lot of people who are like that. Anyone who disregards "political correctness" has courage in this day and age.
Which, if you had bothered to read more than just my posts in this one thread, I oppose most vociferously.

I have never stated anywhere that you have less than the full panoply of rights granted under the US Constitution, one of which is freedom of speech. Whatever you choose to advocate, do so with my blessing. Just don't expect ME to agree with YOU! :)

Does it look like I'm stopping you somehow? :)

Good point XD

Hmmmm...Homeschool America......I like the ring of that.

(Ankhmet, get on our damn thread already!!!)

Yea but you still have to police it.

I have met some rather stupid homeschooled people.....

I also think I should be allowed to hunt with an automatic rifle, but there's those people who, THOUGH IT DOESN"T AFFECT THEM, don't want me to.


so because someone is trying to oppress you, that would make it okay for you to try to oppress somebody else?

WHAT ! So if you moved to somewhere or other, like Zimbabwe(sp) and they took exception to the colour of your skin, you believe that its your problem, and that you deserve no protection from authority to stop those that do not like you abusing you ? After all, its the same thing, you could change and try to fit in but theyd still know and theyd carry on, it couldnt be taken back.

If I moved to a place like that, then yes, apparently I'd have to do everything myself. I DON"T MIND DOING EVERYTHING MY SELF!!!!

Perhaps when a student reached the age of 16, this shoul become irrelevant? Just let the older kids show 'PDA', but punish the younger kids in much harsher ways :)

WHOOT! That'll fix things XD Thank God I'm 16....

Perhaps when a student reached the age of 16, this shoul become irrelevant? Just let the older kids show 'PDA', but punish the younger kids in much harsher ways :)
Yeah! Punish dem lil brats! Beat 'em! Whip dey lil azzez! That's the ticket! :D

so because someone is trying to oppress you, that would make it okay for you to try to oppress somebody else?

That's not the message I'm trying to say. I'm trying to say that it happens. And unfortunately, that's that.

I would like to point out, PP , that it is 2 in the morning for me, I was supposed to be revising my business studies (if indeed I was supposed to be up now :S) and I'm all revved up in gay rights mode. It's not gonna happen this very second.

If I moved to a place like that, then yes, apparently I'd have to do everything myself. I DON"T MIND DOING EVERYTHING MY SELF!!!!
No no no, was moved there, you dont have a choice in the matter just like that child wouldnt have a choice where he lived. And its not a matter of doing everything yourself its a matter of being refused the right to own land and being attacked regularly.

Which, if you had bothered to read more than just my posts in this one thread, I oppose most vociferously.

I have never stated anywhere that you have less than the full panoply of rights granted under the US Constitution, one of which is freedom of speech. Whatever you choose to advocate, do so with my blessing. Just don't expect ME to agree with YOU! :)

I didn't expect you to.

Ahh, but you cannot organise a revolution properly when you cannot get close to anyone else... When things look like they're going to get revolution-ey, bump the distance to ten feet and bump the punishment to deportation :D
Shit! :(

Yeah! Punish dem lil brats! Beat 'em! Whip dey lil azzez! That's the ticket! :D

Well, I'm just a big book of repressive rules today :)

Perhaps I should join some kin of nation simulation game where I could run a hypothetical country?

I would like to point out, PP , that it is 2 in the morning for me, I was supposed to be revising my business studies (if indeed I was supposed to be up now :S) and I'm all revved up in gay rights mode. It's not gonna happen this very second.

Sorry, I'm not santa, I don't know where you live. Then get your studies done, and get some sleep. (tests are a bitch on no sleep)

Shit! :(

Aye aye, sir!

I didn't expect you to.
Excellent! Then we have an understanding. :)

Now if you would just quit yelling ( all caps )! :(

Well, I'm just a big book of repressive rules today :)

Perhaps I should join some kin of nation simulation game where I could run a hypothetical country?
Um ... [ puzzled look ] :confused:

Sorry, I'm not santa, I don't know where you live. Then get your studies done, and get some sleep. (tests are a bitch on no sleep)

One more person on my 'not santa' list. Goddamnit, why must my quest be so fu**ing hard?

EDIT:Eutrusca: just kep being puzzled. Even I'm not entirely sure what I'm saying. just nod, an walk backwards, avoiding eye (screen?) contact.

EDIT 2:My keyboard is missing random ltters out :S

Sorry, I'm not santa, I don't know where you live. Then get your studies done, and get some sleep. (tests are a bitch on no sleep)
No don't worry it's only business studies, sleep isn't required just the worlds fastest writing hand. So many essay question so little time...

Excellent! Then we have an understanding. :)

Now if you would just quit yelling ( all caps )! :(

Oh, sorry.

That's not the message I'm trying to say. I'm trying to say that it happens. And unfortunately, that's that.

sure it happens - so because it happens then we should not fight it? thatss that? nothing more to say or do? people shurk their personal responsibility too? it happens so that's that.

but the guy was saying that you think its wrong to be homosexual and a sin and that is fine but don't try to force others who dont believe that to live by those beliefs seeing as how noone gets hurt, and what you said made it look like you were tryign to make excuses as to why that was okay.

Aye aye, sir!
It wasn't a frakkin' order, you dweeb! It was an exclamation! :D

One more person on my 'not santa' list. Goddamnit, why must my quest be so fu**ing hard?

Your search, continue, young Padawan. A jedi you are not. <Yoda-ish>

I may have missed it if this was already posted. If so, sorry. Santiago HS does NOT prohibit PDA in heterosexual students!

http://tmsyn.wc.ask.com/r?t=an&s=dw&uid=242d6daf842d6daf8&sid=342d6daf842d6daf8&qid=D5555D48EF840244B5DB3CB0D45E1B19&io=6&sv=z6f537252&o=0&ask=Santiago+High+School%2c+Garden+Grove+California&uip=42d6daf8&en=te&eo=-100&pt=Pacific+Views%3a+Another+of+those+special+rights+that+lesbians+and...&ac=20&qs=121&pg=1&ep=1&te_par=218&te_id=&u=http://www.pacificviews.org/weblog/archives/001488.html

No don't worry it's only business studies, sleep isn't required just the worlds fastest writing hand. So many essay question so little time...
[ hijacking my own thread ] I use to love essay questions! Like I've always said: if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit! :D

Well, she could get a strap-on! I know women don't have dicks. Yes, I did see GI Jane for the first time recently, but that is something I have said even before I saw the movie. It's the idea of basically telling the bastard to eff off. Not that it's something I would truly recommend, like I said it sounded good in my head.
and i enjoyed the phrase when it was used in GIJane too. it had a certain cheeky quality

but now lets not be sexist, if "suck my dick" is an insult then so is "eat my pussy" and its more anatomically correct.

that whole strap on idea really tickles me. she could hand it to him and not even have to take her pants down. what an image!

I know its been mentioned one or two times, but nobody seems to have picked it up. What was the girl transferred for, why was she given a disciplinary record and what right does the principal have to interfere with the girls relationship with another?

Was it because she was homosexual?

If yes, with the exception of the last question, of which the principal has no business butting in at any case, the other two are clear cut cases of abuse of power for the purposes of discrimination. The proper response? Throw him out of his position. Abuse of power should never be tolerated in any shape or form.

Excellent! Then we have an understanding. :)

Hey, wait a second.....I did it!!! I found the Real America!!! It does exist!!! I'm so happy, this is the happiest F*cking day of my life!!!

Thank you so much, I can die happy now.

I can't believe it, it does exist, It does exist!! HAHA!!!

Ankhmet, I'm sorry, try Canada, though.

It wasn't a frakkin' order, you dweeb! It was an exclamation! :D

Yes sir! Uh....was that port or starboard...?:confused:

Your search, continue, young Padawan. A jedi you are not. <Yoda-ish>

Oh, hell! Now I'm not even a Jedi. I should probably give up.

And I just realised my business studies exam was yesterday.

Holy fucking mother of the dear lord's God-damned shit...

[ hijacking my own thread ] I use to love essay questions! Like I've always said: if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit! :D

YES! I'm stealing your mantra!

i only approve of homosexuals publicly displaying affection if both chicks are hot. in which case they can do it as much as they want, hell, they can video tape it and mail copies to everyone if they want

but in all other cases, they should stop bitching about being told to stop and if they want to have ugly-people-gay sex on their own time, go for it, but not in public.this especially goes for males: no one wants to see that. think of the harm this could do to everyone else in the hallways. people could go blind! and then whose fault would it be?

ill tell you whose, the fag's/ ugly dyke's fault

sure it happens - so because it happens then we should not fight it? thatss that? nothing more to say or do? people shurk their personal responsibility too? it happens so that's that.

but the guy was saying that you think its wrong to be homosexual and a sin and that is fine but don't try to force others who dont believe that to live by those beliefs seeing as how noone gets hurt, and what you said made it look like you were tryign to make excuses as to why that was okay.

I was just saying that it happens to all of us. It's not right, but it happens.

And that's the whole idea of this thread:

S*it happens!

[ hijacking my own thread ] I use to love essay questions! Like I've always said: if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit! :D
No ! Get back devil *beats with brromstick* Essay questions are too much writing, only with power from the devil himself could you possibly have enough hand strength to write so much so quickly.

...

It should be that essay questions were punishable not PDA's... I don't know i cant even pretend i can make that post on-topic.

i only approve of homosexuals publicly displaying affection if both chicks are hot. in which case they can do it as much as they want, hell, they can video tape it and mail copies to everyone if they want

but in all other cases, they should stop bitching about being told to stop and if they want to have ugly-people-gay sex on their own time, go for it, but not in public.this especially goes for males: no one wants to see that. think of the harm this could do to everyone else in the hallways. people could go blind! and then whose fault would it be?

ill tell you whose, the fag's/ ugly dyke's fault

I'm off to find somebody ugly to kiss in public.

Oh, hell! Now I'm not even a Jedi. I should probably give up.

And I just realised my business studies exam was yesterday.

Interesting, this is...Easy, passive voice is not!

Oh, hell! Now I'm not even a Jedi. I should probably give up.

And I just realised my business studies exam was yesterday.

Brilliant, bloody brilliant!!! Not ONCE have I done that. I now have a new goal!

I've never studied for an exam that was yesterday...I have a dream!!!!

Sexual Orientation is a personal choice for everyone. Privacy is your right no matter who you are or how old you are. People in a position of power should not be allowed to take matters of Sexual Orientation of a Minor into their own hands and tell the parents. This girl who was showing PDA towards her girlfriend was a teenager (and as far as im concerned old enough to make her own decisions) and the Principal as far as im concerned shouldn't have had the right to tell the parents about her personal life. I dont believe that ANYONE has the right to assume that they are instantly allowed to tell a parent their child is a homosexual just because they have shown PDA. It is all up to the child. This girl should have been allowed to tell her parents in her own sweet time, when she felt ready and comfortable, because as some of you said the parents may have had alot of trouble coming to terms with the fact that their child was gay, and yes it probably could have put the girl in danger. This girl was not doing anyone in the public any harm by showing PDA towards her girlfriend, and its the same for heterosexual couples. NO SCHOOL should take away a persons right to have a boyfriend or girlfriend. It is a normal and natural part of life, and if you cant love, you cant like, and therefore you are less likely to become a productive or willing member of society. And nobody should ever get in trouble for showing PDA.

So many things wrong here, but I don't have time, I need to wake up at like...4:30 in the morning.

Eutrusca: just kep being puzzled. Even I'm not entirely sure what I'm saying. just nod, an walk backwards, avoiding eye (screen?) contact.
Not a problem. Most of the ideologues on here alledge that I stay in a perpetual state of puzzlement anyway! :D

I also just realised that I did actually do the exam, which is a great relief to me. Now just the mystery of the missing history test :D

[finally, on-topic]

Ummm... Err.... Gays... um...

Interesting, this is...Easy, passive voice is not!
Then quit it you should! :D

Brilliant, bloody brilliant!!! Not ONCE have I done that. I now have a new goal!

I've never studied for an exam that was yesterday...I have a dream!!!!

An easily attainable dream but a dream nonetheless! Go for it!

If she was openly gay at the school and had voluntarily come out of the closet, then there is no violation of privacy for discussing public information. If it was public knowledge, and from what i understand it was because [most of] the school knew about it and she was open about it, then how did the principle violate her right to privacy if it wasnt private information?

You have to unknowingly study for a test that was yesterday.

Then quit it you should! :D

Quitting, of the Dark side is!

Well everyone, it's been fun playing, but I've gotta go now.:(

I'd like to leave you with one last thought:

Use common sense and have personal responsibility for your own actions. Don't try to hold someone else liable. In any situation.

Goodnight, God Bless You, and have a Merry Christmas!!!!!:p


Ankhmet, get some sleep, finish your exams, get your computer fixed, and get back to the war!!!!:p

No ! Get back devil *beats with brromstick* Essay questions are too much writing, only with power from the devil himself could you possibly have enough hand strength to write so much so quickly.
Well, my last name IS "Horn!" [ grins devilishly ] Mwahahahahaa! :D

Of the Dark Side, quitting is.

You have to unknowingly study for a test that was yesterday.
Does it count to study for a class that was yesterday ?

["It isn't fair, but gay kids expressing affection are not treated the way straight kids are."
Only unfAIR if they're hot lesbians. Then I could care less. If people are gay, as long as they don't flaunt it, I don't mind either.

If you genuinely thought it wasn't yesterday, then welcome to the elite group that I call the Temporally-Challenged Time Lords of Study.

Your comment reveals a lack of knowledge.

Jews, for the most part, not only share the same religion, but largely the same genetic makeup.

Damnit, Eutrusca, I was just warming up to you, too.

I'm aware of said fact, but I was refering to the religion aspect only. They choose to be Jewish, and they've suffered abuse from just about everyone. Those that haven't persecuted them simply didn't get the chance. Yet they're one of the oldest religions to date.

Quitting, of the Dark side is!
Wise you have become. Verbally adept you are not! :D

Damnit, Eutrusca, I was just warming up to you, too.

I'm aware of said fact, but I was refering to the religion aspect only. They choose to be Jewish, and they've suffered abuse from just about everyone. Those that haven't persecuted them simply didn't get the chance. Yet they're one of the oldest religions to date.
Ok ... I suppose. My bad. :)

If you genuinely thought it wasn't yesterday, then welcome to the elite group that I call the Temporally-Challenged Time Lords of Study.

Ooh ooh! Can I join??? Pick me! :mp5:

If you genuinely thought it wasn't yesterday, then welcome to the elite group that I call the Temporally-Challenged Time Lords of Study.
YES ! I'll bet you have badges and medals and secret meetings and special hats and handshakes and little symbols and gifts packs and whilstles....

Wise you have become. Verbally adept you are not! :D

Powerful in the Force, I have become. Verbally adept I need not be.

You must study long and hard. Only when you realise you started to do so 24 hours late will you truly be a TCTLoS.

You must study long and hard. Only when you realise you started to do so 24 hours late will you truly be a TCTLoS.

Damn! That's actually gonna be tough! :rolleyes:

Ok ... I suppose. My bad. :)

:D

No problem.

Powerful in the Force, I have become. Verbally adept I need not be.
Man ... if that's the case, u in sum s'ious shyte! :D