NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051129/ap_on_re_eu/france_immigration

Because of the recent riots in France, they are tightening their immigration policies. The U.S. also has an immigration problem with many illegal aliens entering the U.S. However, many people in the U.S. are opposed to clamping down on illegal immigration. I wonder if these same people feel France should not reform their immigration policies. What say you?

We do need to tighten it up. An open door policy would be nice if we had the infrastructure to hold all these illegal immigrants, but we simply can't hold that many people. Worse, it degrades legal immigrants, who are looked on with suspicion by people who assume all foreign-born people are illegals. It's just a case of enforcing laws.

Isn't it already tight?

Obviously America must do the exact opposite, as France is clearly a Socialist terrorist-appeaser. Or something like that.

Obviously America must do the exact opposite, as France is clearly a Socialist terrorist-appeaser. Or something like that.

That would be fun.

oh yeah-France is a great role model. Lets do what they do.:rolleyes:

Isn't it already tight?
Legally, yes. In practice, no. We're handing out driver's licenses to illegal immigrants now. It's encouraging illegal immigration, and no one's enforcing it as much as they can. Something has to be done.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051129/ap_on_re_eu/france_immigration

Because of the recent riots in France, they are tightening their immigration policies. The U.S. also has an immigration problem with many illegal aliens entering the U.S. However, many people in the U.S. are opposed to clamping down on illegal immigration. I wonder if these same people feel France should not reform their immigration policies. What say you?
France's problem isn't illegal immigration, it's legalized discrimination.

This doesn't really seem like there is an argument to say no.

Its like asking whether she would allow crime to happen or stop it.

Of course we should tighten immigration.

Good luck trying! *sits back and watches the show*

This doesn't really seem like there is an argument to say no.

Its like asking whether she would allow crime to happen or stop it.

Of course we should tighten immigration.
Tighten it all you want...make it tighter than a nun's backside...that's not going to stop ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION...it's going to increase it.

France tightens immigration. Should the U.S. tighten immigration?

Only if the immigrants are brown.


(if you don't recognize that as sarcasm, I feel pity for your mother.)

The US can handle its immigrants. It's a difference of mind-set.

Because of the recent riots in France, they are tightening their immigration policies. The U.S. also has an immigration problem with many illegal aliens entering the U.S.
Oversimplifying much?

I don't see any rioting Puerto Rican Ghettos with worrying connections with more and more radical Islam and a genuine rejection of American culture (noticing that there is no such thing as a single American culture).

Tighten it all you want...make it tighter than a nun's backside...that's not going to stop ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION...it's going to increase it.

Tightening immigration means cracking down on illegal immigration (obviously). Of course it isn't going to stop it, but that doesn't mean we should enforce it.

Who would disagree with the statement that we should crack down on murders? Should we stop enforcing it just because we can't stop it completely - of course not.

Waste of money like the patriot act...

Sure let's follow the cowardly french men.

I wonder when you will stop expressing stupid, prejudicial hatred towards the French...:rolleyes:

Waste of money like the patriot act...

Sure let's follow the cowardly french men.

Thanks for contributing... I am sure everyone will respect you for your well thought, intelligent and non-bias opinion on the matter.

All nations need to tighten immigration, you cant just let people inn all the time. Soon immigrants will be a majority in some nations and get to force their laws and their rules on the natives.
History agrees with this so dont bother to argue with me.

oh yeah-France is a great role model. Lets do what they do.:rolleyes:

Eat croissants, smoke thin black cigarettes and reject the triune god? ok! :D

Eat croissants, smoke thin black cigarettes and reject the triune god? ok! :D
Since when does Catholicism reject the Triune God? This is the majority religion in France the last time I checked.

Since when does Catholicism reject the Triune God? This is the majority religion in France the last time I checked.

Shhh! It's a secret. The Catholic Church embraced Baha'i 50 years ago ... don't tell anyone.

I wonder when you will stop expressing stupid, prejudicial hatred towards the French...:rolleyes:

I do not hate the French. However I would have more respect for them if they had any respect for people other than French.

I do not hate the Americans. However I would have more respect for them if they had any respect for people other than Americans.

Fixed!

I do not hate the French. However I would have more respect for them if they had any respect for people other than French.
a) "they" is hardly a homogenous group.
b) "they" do - their government is committed to the UN and multilateral action (although not as much as I'd like).

I do not hate the French. However I would have more respect for them if they had any respect for people other than French.

The problem with that is that it is a common assumption and "rumor" (sorry don't know how to put it any better than that, at this time) that many americans have.

Most French aren't like that at all and now that we have labeled them as pompous jackasses who are condescending and see themselves as superior to everyone else, it is sticking and ignorant people around the world actually believe it. All this and most haven't even been to france let alone talk with a french person.

I do not hate the French. However I would have more respect for them if they had any respect for people other than French.
Are you for real? Let me hear you say that after the foreign people in your nation start trashing all they see. France is the nation of the French, it's their land and they get to say what goes and what does not. same for all nations.
I would say the same thing for African nations etc. if Europeans were causing hell there so dont turn this into a racial thing.

The problem with that is that it is a common assumption and "rumor" (sorry don't know how to put it any better than that, at this time) that many americans have.

Most French aren't like that at all and now that we have labeled them as pompous jackasses who are condescending and see themselves as superior to everyone else, it is sticking and ignorant people around the world actually believe it. All this and most haven't even been to france let alone talk with a french person.

I think it's difficult for most North Americans to understand the immigrant situation in Europe. The problem is that these large immigrant populations are not integrating into the local society, and as they increase in size are being seen as a rival group. It's ironic that in some places globalization is helping to retrench the nation-state.

All nations need to tighten immigration, you cant just let people inn all the time.
Nope. It is very possible, all you need to do is get rid of borders. Worked in the EU, right?

Soon immigrants will be a majority in some nations and get to force their laws and their rules on the natives.
That is the wonder of globalisation and democracy.

History agrees with this so dont bother to argue with me.
Then why did you post it?

Are you for real? Let me hear you say that after the foreign people in your nation start trashing all they see. France is the nation of the French, it's their land and they get to say what goes and what does not. same for all nations.
I would say the same thing for African nations etc. if Europeans were causing hell there so dont turn this into a racial thing.
Agreed.

The problem with that is that it is a common assumption and "rumor" (sorry don't know how to put it any better than that, at this time) that many americans have.

Most French aren't like that at all and now that we have labeled them as pompous jackasses who are condescending and see themselves as superior to everyone else, it is sticking and ignorant people around the world actually believe it. All this and most haven't even been to france let alone talk with a french person.
Very true. I do not see where people come off with all these prejudiced views of the French.

I wonder when you will stop expressing stupid, prejudicial hatred towards the French...:rolleyes:

how about... when they finally step it up and become more than just a fair - weather ally

and when they stop sucking. that might help.

how about... when they finally step it up and become more than just a fair - weather ally

and when they stop sucking. that might help.
Ah, so if they don't do what you want, its all fine and dandy to hate them with bias and prejudice. Right. This would be the American way of doing things then? :rolleyes:

"France tightens immigration. Should the U.S. tighten immigration?"

YES! No more Francophiles! Lock the frakkin' doors! :D

Very true. I do not see where people come off with all these prejudiced views of the French.

Problem is that many people see the French as cowards because their nation was unprepared for war and got invaded by one of the most impressive military powers in the history of the world.

They did the smart thing in surrendering their government so innocent civilians (other than jews, gypsys and a few other smaller groups), wouldn't be needlessly slaughtered.

They still continued the battle against the Germans - they just did it underground with spies, sabotage, and ambushes.

People are just to ignorant to form opinions some times.

1. Nope. It is very possible, all you need to do is get rid of borders. Worked in the EU, right?


2. That is the wonder of globalisation and democracy.


3. Then why did you post it?

1. Imagine...Do you even now what the EU is? There are still borders, nations and cultures that divide. From the dawn of man there have been borders of some kind and it will be so to the day human life ends.

2. It is the start of a World War. It will cause the fall of people.

3. Because you didnt seem to know that.

Problem is that many people see the French as cowards because their nation was unprepared for war and got invaded by one of the most impressive military powers in the history of the world.

They did the smart thing in surrendering their government so innocent civilians (other than jews, gypsys and a few other smaller groups), wouldn't be needlessly slaughtered.

They still continued the battle against the Germans - they just did it underground with spies, sabotage, and ambushes.

People are just to ignorant to form opinions some times.
I applaud your informed response. France did indeed suffer a late Depression, and faced the German war machine. As you said, Germany is overwhelmingly powerful. Should France have resisted directly, Germany would have oblitterated it.

Imagine...Do you even now what the EU is? There are still borders, nations and cultures that divide.
You were talking about immigration. People in the EU are free to move to other EU-countries as they please.

You were talking about immigration. People in the EU are free to move to other EU-countries as they please.

You have to inform the respective nations and there are some limitations and regulations depending on the nations.
I am not from an EU nation, thank God, so I do not know the real structure of the system but I do know that there are limits and regs.

U.S. tightening immigration is not going to happen any time soon, not with Shrub pushing for his pet "Guest Worker" project, which basically encourages illegal immigration.

Besides which, unless you cut out the root cause of illegal immigration- basically the next-to-shit economic opportunities for these people back in Mexico- then the wave will be a bunch of Doritos; "Crunch All You Want, We'll Make More."

You have to inform the respective nations and there are some limitations and regulations depending on the nations.
I am not from an EU nation, thank God, so I do not know the real structure of the system but I do know that there are limits and regs.
Hmm are you Norwegian or Icelandic?

You have to inform the respective nations and there are some limitations and regulations depending on the nations.
I am not from an EU nation, thank God, so I do not know the real structure of the system but I do know that there are limits and regs.
Nope. No regulations.
They would be against the EU-treaties.

Since I hold a German passport, I can work in England, France, Italy or Greece.

The only thing is if you committed a crime - and even that may soon be gone considering the Europe-wide arrest warrant.
And the second is the new members that just joined...because of some xenophobic arseholes there are rules that mean that Polish or Slovakian workers can't enter the old member-countries for a few years.
But then they can move freely too.

U.S. tightening immigration is not going to happen any time soon, not with Shrub pushing for his pet "Guest Worker" project, which basically encourages illegal immigration.

Besides which, unless you cut out the root cause of illegal immigration- basically the next-to-shit economic opportunities for these people back in Mexico- then the wave will be a bunch of Doritos; "Crunch All You Want, We'll Make More."

I dont mean to be rude but how is it that the most powerfull nation and richest nation in the world can not close the Mexico-U.S. border.
I know how large the section is and I know that it will cost millions but in the long run isnt that worth it.
If you take the ammount of cost the U.S. government and legel system spends on legal matters in thees cases and also other groups and efforts.

Nope. No regulations.
They would be against the EU-treaties.

Since I hold a German passport, I can work in England, France, Italy or Greece.

The only thing is if you committed a crime - and even that may soon be gone considering the Europe-wide arrest warrant.
And the second is the new members that just joined...because of some xenophobic arseholes there are rules that mean that Polish or Slovakian workers can't enter the old member-countries for a few years.
But then they can move freely too.

So there are a few limits and regulations.

The EU will not last.

So there are a few limits and regulations.

The EU will not last.
If it is not reformed. With the defeat of the Constitution, its very likely that it will be amended to address the concerns of the member states, such as the abuse of the concept of freedom of movement.

The EU will not last.
What a well-put argument.

Since the people of Europe want it to exist (even the most Euro-sceptic country - the UK - has only a 25% minority against it) it will exist.

The time for Nationalism and Patriotism is over my friend, and the sooner you'll get used to it, the better it is for business.

What a well-put argument.

Since the people of Europe want it to exist (even the most Euro-sceptic country - the UK - has only a 25% minority against it) it will exist.

The time for Nationalism and Patriotism is over my friend, and the sooner you'll get used to it, the better it is for business.
Business and Europe as a continent. Hopefully one day the EU superstate will be formed, with a Constitution.

Fixed!

It is not nice to edit someones post. Not a good way to earn respect, or keep what respect you may have.

Hmm are you Norwegian or Icelandic?
Icelandic.

The problem with that is that it is a common assumption and "rumor" (sorry don't know how to put it any better than that, at this time) that many americans have.

Most French aren't like that at all and now that we have labeled them as pompous jackasses who are condescending and see themselves as superior to everyone else, it is sticking and ignorant people around the world actually believe it. All this and most haven't even been to france let alone talk with a french person.

The few French I have met and worked with have reinforced this "common assumption and rumor." Also, most of the Spanish I came to know while living in Spain share this "common assumption and rumor" about the French.

What a well-put argument.

Since the people of Europe want it to exist (even the most Euro-sceptic country - the UK - has only a 25% minority against it) it will exist.

The time for Nationalism and Patriotism is over my friend, and the sooner you'll get used to it, the better it is for business.

The problems with the last major vote is just a start and now the Turkey deal.
It's just a union of nations and if you read a history book you will see countless Unions tha had promise but failed. It's how it works, it is onlu a temprary thing.
People will still hold dear theor nation, values, culture, people, language and history and they will fight for it as allways.
We might die before the end of the EU comes but our children or grandchildren will see it's fall.

The few French I have met and worked with have reinforced this "common assumption and rumor." Also, most of the Spanish I came to know while living in Spain share this "common assumption and rumor" about the French.
So you are basing your view of an entire nation on these limited opinions? :rolleyes:

The problems with the last major vote is just a start and now the Turkey deal.
It's just a union of nations and if you read a history book you will see countless Unions tha had promise but failed. It's how it works, it is onlu a temprary thing.
People will still hold dear theor nation, values, culture, people, language and history and they will fight for it as allways.
We might die before the end of the EU comes but our children or grandchildren will see it's fall.
All empires fall. The USA may well be the one to fall before the EU. I am not of opinion that the EU will fall any time soon though.

The few French I have met and worked with have reinforced this "common assumption and rumor." Also, most of the Spanish I came to know while living in Spain share this "common assumption and rumor" about the French.

Well than you met a few bad apples - perhaps you already had a preconcieved notion of what the french would be and you saw their actions as "condescending and superior" more than you would have if there wasn't such an assumption.

I have met many, many French people who are very nice and humble - they were not condescending in anyway and in fact embraced me as an American.

To say the French population as a whole is arrogant and condescending is quite a generalization to make. A generalization that makes many countries look at Americans as arrogant and condescending.

It is not nice to edit someones post. Not a good way to earn respect, or keep what respect you may have.


You say that as if I have any respect. ;)

Nah ... I was just fuckin' witcha. :D

They did the smart thing in surrendering their government so innocent civilians (other than jews, gypsys and a few other smaller groups), wouldn't be needlessly slaughtered.

So it is smart for them to surrender and throw the jews, gypsys and a few other groups to the lions?

So it is smart for them to surrender and throw the jews, gypsys and a few other groups to the lions?
Compare with what happened to Poland. They didn't give up, and they had their capital turned into dust.
The Wehrmacht was not exactly reasonable about those things. And besides, percentage-wise less French Jews were killed than in pretty much any other occupied country, and I'm sure the fact that Vichy held on to a relatively safer area contributed.

U.S. tightening immigration is not going to happen any time soon, not with Shrub pushing for his pet "Guest Worker" project, which basically encourages illegal immigration.

You know what's funny about that?

Many years ago, in a galaxy far, far away (known as Texas) Governor George W. Bush relaxed the borders - yes RELAXED the borders - because he agreed with Vincente Fox when Fox said, "As long as there are jobs in the US that Americans won't do, Mexico will continue to encourage people to jump the border!"

Gov. Bush responded to that by saying, "Ok! Bring 'em on! We want those immigrants, illegal or otherwise!"

(Incidently, the only thing GWB has ever done in his whole political career that gains my respect.)

So it is smart for them to surrender and throw the jews, gypsys and a few other groups to the lions?

The Jews and Gypsys were going to die either way. The Germans were going to overrun France and kill much more than they did.

Believe me, I have thought over this many times and I have studied what happened. The French population was going to fall under the power of the Germans either way. The only choice was between appeasing them superficially and fighting them from the shadows or fighting them outright and being desemated.

The Jews and Gypsys were going to die either way. The Germans were going to overrun France and kill much more than they did.

Believe me, I have thought over this many times and I have studied what happened. The French population was going to fall under the power of the Germans either way. The only choice was between appeasing them superficially and fighting them from the shadows or fighting them outright and being desemated.
Indeed. Sacrificing an entire nation would be far worse in my opinion. The Germans at this point were not known for their penchant for mercy.

So you are basing your view of an entire nation on these limited opinions? :rolleyes:

What other basis do I have to base my opinion on? The way their nation has treated other nations? The duplicity of their politics? Their arrogance toward other countries?

What other basis do I have to base my opinion on? The way their nation has treated other nations? The duplicity of their politics? Their arrogance toward other countries?
Then you act based on ignorance. Might I remind you that the Spanish you mentioned before are generally seen as arrogant as well as they look down on South Americans, seeing them as lesser offspring of colonists. I doubt though that all Spanish (and Portuguese) are arrogant individuals who hate Brazilians. Stereotyping an entire nation is foolish.

What other basis do I have to base my opinion on?

Unfortunately, you have only one basis for your opinion and that is the "Jesus Bless America" opinion of the American way of life.

The way their nation has treated other nations? The duplicity of their politics? Their arrogance toward other countries?
[/QUOTE]

Yes, because nothing sucks ass more than a nation who has polititcs that don't jibe with yours, eh? You ask about "their" nation treating others with something you don't like, but you've yet to name those "them".

How very ..... Columbus of you.

*wicked coff of "Sinuhue, you're needed in this read"*

Incidently, if you want to base your opinion of a nation on how that nation treats other nations. then I only need to refer you to how the US treats Puerto Rico. And I'm done.

(please go on to me and everyone else about how it's PR's fault and not the US's so I can have a laugh when I wake up tomorrow)

What other basis do I have to base my opinion on? The way their nation has treated other nations? The duplicity of their politics? Their arrogance toward other countries?

You base your opinions off of false information that has been greatly exaggerated. When enough people say things and believe things about the French you will hear many things like they are arrogant.

The french like Doctor Who, so they can't be all bad.

And who else would put up with Jerry Lewis?

So it is smart for them to surrender and throw the jews, gypsys and a few other groups to the lions?

What they are saying is that the french did the intelligent thing. maybe.

but people not fond of france don't say they;re stupid, they say they are cowardly.

Maybe the brutalization of france would have been worse had they not appeased the germans, but that is not a trait many americans admire.

Where's the loyalty to their country? where is their meager supply of courage? To stand and fight may have been foolhardy, but they would be much more respected today had they not abnadoned their country to the germans.

oh yeah-France is a great role model. Lets do what they do.:rolleyes:
I absolutely agree! And not sarcastically either. More immigrants means more students for me to teach though....

I absolutely agree! And not sarcastically either. More immigrants means more students for me to teach though....

You own a flight school?

Okay that was bad and uncalled for...

:D

oh yeah-France is a great role model. Lets do what they do.:rolleyes:
We've always done what France does. France fought the British, so we fought the British. France fought Germany, we fought Germany. France fought the Vietnamese, we fought the Vietnamese. Let's face it, France is our role model.

What other basis do I have to base my opinion on? The way their nation has treated other nations? The duplicity of their politics? Their arrogance toward other countries?

Yeah, because America treats other nations with respect. Those Vietnamese were so grateful that you decided for them that what the majority of the people wanted was wrong for them, and dealth with anyone who might possibly be helping the Vietcong in such a humanitarian way.

France is arrogant towards other countries, but no more so than America. Anyone who can say with a straight face that they think America is humble is either lying or a blind nationalist.

You know what's funny about that?

Many years ago, in a galaxy far, far away (known as Texas) Governor George W. Bush relaxed the borders - yes RELAXED the borders - because he agreed with Vincente Fox when Fox said, "As long as there are jobs in the US that Americans won't do, Mexico will continue to encourage people to jump the border!"

Gov. Bush responded to that by saying, "Ok! Bring 'em on! We want those immigrants, illegal or otherwise!"

(Incidently, the only thing GWB has ever done in his whole political career that gains my respect.)
OT

The "Jobs Americans won't do" argument is a load of Free Marketeer horseshit. There is almost no job that Americans won't do if paid enough. There are Americans who dive into vats of liquefied shit at sewage treatment plants to perform maintainance and repairs. You don't think you can find a few Americans to mow a lawn if the price is right? The illegals only lower wages for poor Americans. They don't do jobs Americans don't want, they earn wages Americans don't want.

Immigration should be liberalized, but only to the point where criminals, lunatics, and those with novel diseases are kept out. I believe that all immigrants should go through authorized checkpoints to be examined, and rejected if they are somehow unfit to enter. This would abolish limits on immigration, but do so in a safe way. Of course, those trying to enter outside unauthorized checkpoints must be shot.

Your missing the big picture. America CAN'T tighten their immigration. When France does it, it is a step towards solving some of the problems that they have in their country. When America does it, it's because were a bunch of xenophobic rednecks who are scared of brown people. :rolleyes:

how about... when they finally step it up and become more than just a fair - weather ally

Fair-weather ally? But the sky above Suez in 1956 was bright, no?

It's always amazing to read the ratiocinations of some American people who argue that France is a nation of cheese-eating surrendering monkeys on the one hand, but who whine when France turns off its help when it comes to invading a low-armed country on the other hand (for such dubious reasons that everybody knows yet that these very US people have been fooled). Let's face it, "ally" doesn't mean "poodle". And if you consider that France should always line up with the U.S. whatever the motives, then you should ask yourself what's the difference between beig allied the way France und the US are and being allied à la Warsaw Pact.

As a Frenchman, I love the US just as much as I hate their current administration. As concerns the war in Iraq, this was more complex than a "with us or against us" issue, as you may be only too aware if you know people in Iraq right now (or if you simply read the press that has widely acknowledged they have been mistaken themselves, i.e. New York Times, Washington Post).

I think France is right to tighten immigration. It's immigration that's caused France's current riots and social problems. If they never let them in from day one there wouldn't be any riots. I wish Britain would end immigration, but our governments are always too spineless. They prefer to do whatever the men in the boardrooms tell them to. Governments in this country only serve big business rather than the people, just like the US government. If you ban immigration, illiegal immigration will still exist, so from there you have to remove the economic incentives for them to come. For example, if you send employers who knowingly employ illegal immigrants to prison, then I doubt many people would want to give them jobs.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051129/ap_on_re_eu/france_immigration

Because of the recent riots in France, they are tightening their immigration policies. The U.S. also has an immigration problem with many illegal aliens entering the U.S. However, many people in the U.S. are opposed to clamping down on illegal immigration. I wonder if these same people feel France should not reform their immigration policies. What say you?
They should do more namely kick the funnies out.
So what if their Football team will suck balls.
It is the way it should be anyways.

So should America.

Your missing the big picture. America CAN'T tighten their immigration. When France does it, it is a step towards solving some of the problems that they have in their country. When America does it, it's because were a bunch of xenophobic rednecks who are scared of brown people. :rolleyes:

America won't tighten their immigration because Shrub and the people who bought and paid for him needs brown people who mow their lawns, babysit their kids, pick their crops, etc. for next to nothing.

What they are saying is that the french did the intelligent thing. maybe.

but people not fond of france don't say they;re stupid, they say they are cowardly.

Maybe the brutalization of france would have been worse had they not appeased the germans, but that is not a trait many americans admire.

Where's the loyalty to their country? where is their meager supply of courage? To stand and fight may have been foolhardy, but they would be much more respected today had they not abnadoned their country to the germans.
The USA has never been under threat of invasion of a country far more powerful than it. Nor has it thousands of years of tradition to protect from being momentarily annihilated. Thus, it cannot understand. Had Prague not surrendered to Germany, it would be wiped off the map. Same with France. It took us thousands of years to build our civilisation, and we are not so stupid as to simply sacrifice it. Especially when the odds are overwhelmingly against us. If France was in a situation to fight and still refused, then I might see it as cowardly. Otherwise? No.

They don't do jobs Americans don't want, they earn wages Americans don't want.

Then maybe, just maybe, Americans should lower their standards.

Or, better yet, get an education! Education == better job Mexicans won't steal.

Funny how that works, eh?

America won't tighten their immigration because Shrub and the people who bought and paid for him needs brown people who mow their lawns, babysit their kids, pick their crops, etc. for next to nothing.


Most illegal Mexican "day workers" are paid $100.00 per day,CASH, wether they are landscaping, painting, demolition, etc...

Thats hardly "next to nothing". Its likely more than the 20 yr old, unmotivated, living at home kid working in Wendy's takes home in two shifts.