NationStates Jolt Archive

The question is: how could we ever believe Santa existed (assuming that most of us did at some point)?
What do you think it was? That we didn't understand how big the world was? That we were blinded by sheer greed? That we couldn't accept the notion of a world without seasonal generosity?
I guess you'd answer it was several things. That is ok, but which one really did it? Which one did you have to stop believing in for Santa to emerge as an impossibility?

I appologise to those of you whom I just let in on the secret of Santa's, shall we say, being-deficiency. It's better that you find it out from me now, than later from your friends on the street.

The question is: how could we ever believe Santa existed (assuming that most of us did at some point)?
What do you think it was? That we didn't understand how big the world was? That we were blinded by sheer greed? That we couldn't accept the notion of a world without seasonal generosity?
I guess you'd answer it was several things. That is ok, but which one really did it? Which one did you have to stop believing in for Santa to emerge as an impossibility?

I appologise to those of you whom I just let in on the secret of Santa's, shall we say, being-deficiency. It's better that you find it out from me now, than later from your friends on the street.

Probably 'cause I didn't have internet back then.

The question is: how could we ever believe Santa existed (assuming that most of us did at some point)?
What do you think it was? That we didn't understand how big the world was? That we were blinded by sheer greed? That we couldn't accept the notion of a world without seasonal generosity?
I guess you'd answer it was several things. That is ok, but which one really did it? Which one did you have to stop believing in for Santa to emerge as an impossibility?

I appologise to those of you whom I just let in on the secret of Santa's, shall we say, being-deficiency. It's better that you find it out from me now, than later from your friends on the street.

I kinda gathered at an early age.

Now I think the embodiment of "Santa" exists in all of us for our giving nature. That is until comercialism comes in and ruins everything again...

"I W4N7 4 7R4N5F0RM3R F0R CHR157M45!"

As I said...

What!? Santas not real!?

hmm.....





..........who wants to be naughty? ;)

I stopped believing when he left those coca-cola adds :(

What!? Santas not real!?

hmm.....





..........who wants to be naughty? ;)

Ooh! OOOHH! ME!

"I W4N7 4 7R4N5F0RM3R F0R CHR157M45!"

As I said...

I asked for Cybertron Optimus Prime, myself.

Santa taught us an important lesson. Don't believe anything anyone says. Ever.

Don't kids believe in magic? Tooth fairy, Easter bunny, unicorns, crap like that? Not having imagination could make life boring in adulthood.

Q: How come Santa's so jolly all the time?
A: He knows where all the naughty girls live.

The question is: how could we ever believe Santa existed (assuming that most of us did at some point)?
What do you think it was? That we didn't understand how big the world was? That we were blinded by sheer greed? That we couldn't accept the notion of a world without seasonal generosity?
I guess you'd answer it was several things. That is ok, but which one really did it? Which one did you have to stop believing in for Santa to emerge as an impossibility?
I used to believe my parents where telling the truth about Father Christmas, the Tooth Fairy, and God. Fortunately I realised that most of what they (and everyone else) say is just lies designed to confort the weak.

The question is: how could we ever believe Santa existed (assuming that most of us did at some point)?
What do you think it was? That we didn't understand how big the world was? That we were blinded by sheer greed? That we couldn't accept the notion of a world without seasonal generosity?
I guess you'd answer it was several things. That is ok, but which one really did it? Which one did you have to stop believing in for Santa to emerge as an impossibility?

I appologise to those of you whom I just let in on the secret of Santa's, shall we say, being-deficiency. It's better that you find it out from me now, than later from your friends on the street.

Anyone who doesn't believe in Santa Claus ... well, I just feel extremely sorry for them. He's always been good to me. :)

My parents were, um, "kind" enough to just give me enough on Santa to make me curious as to whether or not he actually existed, then refused to tell me one way or the other. At the tender age of 6 I had to find out for myself. I still don't know where the hell this Kris Kringle nonsense started.

It's not like it matters anymore anyway. What started as a Christian holiday of celebration and charity is now a buy-fest to see who can get the coolest presents at the family gathering. You know a holiday goes downhill when Hallmark has figurines and singing stuffed animals for it.

The question is: how could we ever believe Santa existed (assuming that most of us did at some point)?
What do you think it was? That we didn't understand how big the world was? That we were blinded by sheer greed? That we couldn't accept the notion of a world without seasonal generosity?
I guess you'd answer it was several things. That is ok, but which one really did it? Which one did you have to stop believing in for Santa to emerge as an impossibility?

I appologise to those of you whom I just let in on the secret of Santa's, shall we say, being-deficiency. It's better that you find it out from me now, than later from your friends on the street.

I never quite fell for it myself, not the 'Ho-ho-ho!' Santa. By the time I was old enough to understand who he was supposed to be, it just didn't seem likely. Growing up significantly less than rich can do that, I guess.

I used to believe my parents where telling the truth about Father Christmas, the Tooth Fairy, and God. Fortunately I realised that most of what they (and everyone else) say is just lies designed to confort the weak.

Comfort the weak? Why not inspire the heart?

If there's anything to be learned from talk of Santa Claus, it's that GIVING can be as enjoyable as GETTING. a jolly fellow who gives things away to those who deserve it, and even those who really don't (I can say from experience). The story exists because as with many things, adding the element of fantasy to it makes kids more likely to listen. When you tell a kid that giving is a good thing, they won't understand. But when Santa SHOWS them it's a good thing, then things start to click. Not in every kid, but in a lot of them.

always remember this one big rule that i taught my son "those who dont believe in santa, dont get presents from santa"

he understood me quite well

it will be a sad world indeed it if ever comes to the point where kids are unable to believe in the magic of santa claus.

Why does Santa go "ho ho ho" all the time?

Hes only in town once a year and hes looking for some action.:D

I think lying to kids is pretty lame. It's strange to tell kids to always tell the truth and then tell them the same lie for the better part of their childhood.

I think lying to kids is pretty lame.

I find it fairly amusing.

I kinda gathered at an early age.

Now I think the embodiment of "Santa" exists in all of us for our giving nature. That is until comercialism comes in and ruins everything again...

"I W4N7 4 7R4N5F0RM3R F0R CHR157M45!"

As I said...

"FINE, YOU'RE SO SMART. YOU RIG UP THE LIGHTS!!!!"

Bob Rivers, heh heh.

Comfort the weak? Why not inspire the heart?

If there's anything to be learned from talk of Santa Claus, it's that GIVING can be as enjoyable as GETTING.
But Father Christmas obviously favours the rich as they get more presents. And besides, the children only care about the getting, not the giving.

The question is: how could we ever believe Santa existed (assuming that most of us did at some point)?
What do you think it was? That we didn't understand how big the world was? That we were blinded by sheer greed? That we couldn't accept the notion of a world without seasonal generosity?
I guess you'd answer it was several things. That is ok, but which one really did it? Which one did you have to stop believing in for Santa to emerge as an impossibility?
It's because forcing people to believe things is a way of controlling them. All the major religions know this, and parents do as well. How many times do you think a parent will say in one year 'Behave, or Santa will only give you a lump of coal'? It's a way for parents to force their children to behave.

"FINE, YOU'RE SO SMART. YOU RIG UP THE LIGHTS!!!!"

Bob Rivers, heh heh.

Holidaze mess up my brain
Telephone poles look like candy canes
I'm in a hurry, an' I'm tellin' you why

S'cuze me, I got gifts to buy

it will be a sad world indeed it if ever comes to the point where kids are unable to believe in the magic of santa claus.

Or adults. :)

But Father Christmas obviously favours the rich as they get more presents. And besides, the children only care about the getting, not the giving.

That's why it helps to teach them, you know. Kids can gravitate easily towards greed, and Santa, when used properly (I.E., not as the "be god or you get a lump of coal" threat) is the first line of defense against wanty grabby kids.

How many times do you think a parent will say in one year 'Behave, or Santa will only give you a lump of coal'?
I wish my parents had said that - I would have loved a lump of coal to burn. When I found out a barrel of oil only cost £15 I really wnated to get one.

Like religion its a nice concept and idea. But personally I don't need the threat of hell or coal to behave, and I've come to think its a quick way to make kids do what they're told.

The spirit of x-mas is nice and most people treat it in the right way but it teaches a lot of kids greed and manipulation and lying to your kids at an early age is very rarely a good way to parent.

I find it fairly amusing.
I should clarify. I think l;ying to my kids is lame. Lying to other people's kids is pretty funny.

as cool as santa was when i was a kid, he got infinitely cooler once i had kids of my own.

no such thing as santa, indeed…

Q: How come Santa's so jolly all the time?
A: He knows where all the naughty girls live.
Lol added to my sig :)

as cool as santa was when i was a kid, he got infinitely cooler once i had kids of my own.

no such thing as santa, indeed…

That's what I'm talking about. Fun for all ages.

I think lying to kids is pretty lame. It's strange to tell kids to always tell the truth and then tell them the same lie for the better part of their childhood.
its only a "lie" if you insist on it outside the holiday season or past the time when they cease to believe. otherwise its a fun tradition you are sharing with your children.

It's because forcing people to believe things is a way of controlling them. All the major religions know this, and parents do as well. How many times do you think a parent will say in one year 'Behave, or Santa will only give you a lump of coal'? It's a way for parents to force their children to behave.
Be that as it may, my question was about what made us consider this plausible. Read again.

its only a "lie" if you insist on it outside the holiday season or past the time when they cease to believe. otherwise its a fun tradition you are sharing with your children.
That's quite a rationalization you have there. But I've never heard of a definition of "lie" that offered exceptions.

Be that as it may, my question was about what made us consider this plausible. Read again.

I believed it because it sounded like a really good idea. Isn't that why most people believe in anything, outside of fear?

Be that as it may, my question was about what made us consider this plausible. Read again.
Because at such a young age, pretty much the sole authority in our life is our parents. We aren't old enough to appreciate that maybe our parents are lying to us. It's plausible to us because we haven't gathered enough evidence in our short lives to question it.

The question is: how could we ever believe Santa existed (assuming that most of us did at some point)?
What do you think it was? That we didn't understand how big the world was? That we were blinded by sheer greed? That we couldn't accept the notion of a world without seasonal generosity?
I guess you'd answer it was several things. That is ok, but which one really did it? Which one did you have to stop believing in for Santa to emerge as an impossibility?

i suspect it comes from our willingness to think that our parents are infallible and we can trust them implicitly to take care of us regardless. personally, i suspect that kids start not believing when they realize that their parents are people, too.

I believed it because it sounded like a really good idea. Isn't that why most people believe in anything, outside of fear?
I daresay many children believed in Santa out of fear as well, for that matter.

The greedy and the ones who are afraid of coal. Or obesophobes, especially with that whole image of his belly skaking like a "bowl full of jelly".

Lol added to my sig :)

Sheesh, I was beginning to think no one noticed.

That's what I'm talking about. Fun for all ages.

and, fundamentally, the real lesson of santa is that it's better to give than to receive. so yes, go santa!

Simonist']I daresay many children believed in Santa out of fear as well, for that matter.

The greedy and the ones who are afraid of coal. Or obesophobes, especially with that whole image of his belly skaking like a "bowl full of jelly".

I guess that's where the responsibility of the parents comes into play. If you're going to tell kids about Santa Claus, do it in the way that inspires them to be like him in generosity, and avoid threats. If you want your children to behave, just spank them.

Somehow, I knew this thread would bring out the humbugs. (Not too big a surprise, really.) Not believing in Santa ... indeed! I hope you all get coal in your stockings! I'm leaving this thread to start writing my annual letter to Santa now. :)

and, fundamentally, the real lesson of santa is that it's better to give than to receive. so yes, go santa!

tell my g/f that

and, fundamentally, the real lesson of santa is that it's better to give than to receive. so yes, go santa!

I remember my folks telling me how much they loved to take care of things on Christmas Eve, and still do to some extent, even though all us kids are grown up now. Arranging the presents, sneaking around (which is easier since we kids value sleep a lot more than we used to) and of course Dad getting to cheat on his diet for the sake of cookies. I wonder what he thought of that one year when we left him Pizza and Root Beer...

Somehow, I knew this thread would bring out the humbugs. (Not too big a surprise, really.) Not believing in Santa ... indeed! I hope you all get coal in your stockings! I'm leaving this thread to start writing my annual letter to Santa now. :)
Ooooohh...if you wanted to make the last post to Lapland to make sure Santa gets your letter in time, you should've posted it weeks ago!

Somehow, I knew this thread would bring out the humbugs. (Not too big a surprise, really.) Not believing in Santa ... indeed! I hope you all get coal in your stockings! I'm leaving this thread to start writing my annual letter to Santa now. :)
That's cool, man. Santa doesn't come here anymore, anyway. Plus, he doesn't know my screen name, or any wrongdoings that may be posted on my blog....between two trackers and an IP block of his tubby ass, I think I've got it covered.

However, if you should choose to email my boyfriend and family to tell them to take back my presents......well, Hell hath no fury like a young woman who didn't get pretty things from her loved ones ('specially when most of the "pretty things" I expect are heirlooms).

tell my g/f that

sigh...i totally set myself up for that one....:D

Ooooohh...if you wanted to make the last post to Lapland to make sure Santa gets your letter in time, you should've posted it weeks ago!

I'm FedEx'ing it, next day air! :)

I think we believed in Santa because we wanted to. It's nice to have pleasant delusions. I believed in Santa for quite a while, but was always skeptical about the tooth fairy. Why? Santa brought toys, but at my house the tooth fairy brought a new tooth brush or dental floss. Which would a little kid want to believe was real?

I'm FedEx'ing it, next day air! :)
I hope you're asking for expensive presents, and are then intending on selling them all on eBay, or it isn't going to be worth your while.

Holidaze mess up my brain
Telephone poles look like candy canes
I'm in a hurry, an' I'm tellin' you why

S'cuze me, I got gifts to buy

The restroom door said Gentlemen and I would like to find
the crummy little creep who had the nerve to switch the signs
for I have two black eyes and one high heel up my behind
now I can't sit w/ comfort and joy.

I appologise to those of you whom I just let in on the secret of Santa's, shall we say, being-deficiency. It's better that you find it out from me now, than later from your friends on the street.
Santa doesn't exist??? OMG! [ weeps uncontrollably ] You bastid! [ shakes fist ]

That's quite a rationalization you have there. But I've never heard of a definition of "lie" that offered exceptions.
i thought you had children.

my husbands brother and wife were fundamentalists who denied their children santa, halloween, harry potter, everything wonderful and magical about childhood.

it didnt make them better adults.

when dealing with kids, these little cultural traditions enrich their lives. its the insisting on the story when it is no longer appropriate that is damaging.

The whole point of holiday spirit is not to believe in the entity of Santa Clause or Saint Nicholas or whoever as a clear-cut fact, but to believe in the principles of good will, generosity, and the fundamental goodness of humankind. Such universally accepted ideals represent what is truly "comforting" to benevolent people of the world, and those who believe in them are far from weak. I deplore the commercialization of Christmas, but proper holiday spirit certainly isn't dead yet.

Seriously, people seem to be becoming increasingly cynical, incompassionate, and closed-minded these days. I wonder how many idealists are left on the planet?

[edit]: BTW, I am not a materialist. I don't "want" to believe for the hopes of any objects I may or may not be getting.

Santa doesn't exist??? OMG! [ weeps uncontrollably ] You bastid! [ shakes fist ]
Sorry, Eut...you're how old? And you've had how many kids/grandkids? :rolleyes:

I think we believed in Santa because we wanted to. It's nice to have pleasant delusions. I believed in Santa for quite a while, but was always skeptical about the tooth fairy. Why? Santa brought toys, but at my house the tooth fairy brought a new tooth brush or dental floss. Which would a little kid want to believe was real?
Um....when I was a kid, we got paid to lose teeth......so I had a very real reason to want to believe in the tooth faerie for about a year there, even though I already knew Santa and the Easter Bunny were lies, so it was highly likely this dental dame was as well.....

... the fundamental goodness
Riiiight:

http://inhonor.net/videos/uped/fl_video.php?f_num=_54800_

Sorry, Eut...you're how old? And you've had how many kids/grandkids? :rolleyes:
Uh ... 62, 5, and seven. WTF does that have to do with Santa? Huh? Huh? Huh? :p

Simonist']Um....when I was a kid, we got paid to lose teeth...

My point exactly. How long you believe and how much you want to believe are proportional.

My point exactly. How long you believe and how much you want to believe are proportional.
But what I'm saying is, I didn't believe at all. My parents weren't the type to mislead.....so once I figured out Santa was a cultural fallacy, it was easy to disprove the rest of them. Rather, I chose not to openly argue against the idea of the tooth faerie, because though my parents knew I didn't really believe, they still gave me money.

Make more sense?

I think the whole belief in Santa Claus plays on innocence. A child will believe in anything you tell them is real. How many of you believed that there was a monster under your bed/in the closet at some point during your childhood? How many of you believed in the tooth fairy? I mean, when you're a kid, and a grown up tells you that Santa Claus comes to you on Christmas Eve, and tickles your toes to make sure you're asleep, you believe it, because you're too innocent to believe that an adult would lie to you. And if your parents told you that you'd get nothing but coal in your stockings if you misbehaved, isn't that a good incentive to stay well behaved in the six weeks or so coming up to Christmas?

We were always told not to ask Santa Claus for too much, or some other child would have to go without, so I don't think it was greed, not for me anyway. Although, with the number of advertisements for the latest toys multiplying at this time of year, I pity poor parents who are trying desperately to keep up with the demand, but wonder why, every time I see parents standing outside department stores at 3 in the morning, why they didn't do like my parents did. Get your kids to write down everything they want for Christmas. Then put it in an envelope and throw it in the fire. Failing a fire, next to the window so that Santa can get it. Then tell them that if they change their minds, Santa might not be able to get the new list in time for Christmas, so don't be dissapointed, but he will bring you something nice.

And, alas, no, kids don't understand distances very well. If it takes 2 hours to drive 100 miles, then a flight of 90 minutes to a child means they haven't flown as far as they've driven. They don't understand that speed has to be taken into account...but they learn eventually...

I feel bad for you now.

The question is: how could we ever believe Santa existed (assuming that most of us did at some point)?
What do you think it was? That we didn't understand how big the world was? That we were blinded by sheer greed? That we couldn't accept the notion of a world without seasonal generosity?
I guess you'd answer it was several things. That is ok, but which one really did it? Which one did you have to stop believing in for Santa to emerge as an impossibility?

I appologise to those of you whom I just let in on the secret of Santa's, shall we say, being-deficiency. It's better that you find it out from me now, than later from your friends on the street.

Just asking, is there any other way to say that so that it makes sense to a three-year-old? :mp5:

I feel bad for you now.
I certainly hope you don't mean me, because if you do, I must tell you....it's much more fulfilling and uplifting for a child to discover the truth on their own than to hear about it later and feel mislead and betrayed by the adults in their life. I think I'm a much more rational person simply for the way my parents taught me to view things like this -- it's because of that upbringing that I'm less likely to be easily beguiled and mislead in my adult life. They did me a great service, which I intend to extend to my children.

Just asking, is there any other way to say that so that it makes sense to a three-year-old? :mp5:

How about "Abandon Hope".

Just asking, is there any other way to say that so that it makes sense to a three-year-old? :mp5:
Just tell them that Santa doesn't exist, then give them presents anyway. Then if they're still behaving like a kid, take their mp5 away from them.

Just tell them that Santa doesn't exist, then give them presents anyway. Then if they're still behaving like a kid, take their mp5 away from them.
You would punish a three year old for "behaving like a kid"?

That's sadistic.

Simonist']...it's much more fulfilling and uplifting for a child to discover the truth on their own than to hear about it later and feel mislead and betrayed by the adults in their life. I think I'm a much more rational person simply for the way my parents taught me to view things like this -- it's because of that upbringing that I'm less likely to be easily beguiled and mislead in my adult life. They did me a great service, which I intend to extend to my children.
Very true. My ex and I decided to neither encourage nor discourage any belief in Santa in our children, making pleasant, non-committal noises when the children would mention him.

Simonist']You would punish a three year old for "behaving like a kid"?

That's sadistic.
I was actually trying to imply that the poster I was quoting was being a 3-year old by using the 'mp5' smiley in his post...Guess it didn't work, sorry.

Very true. My ex and I decided to neither encourage nor discourage any belief in Santa in our children, making pleasant, non-committal noises when the children would mention him.
This would be despite your own privately held belief that Santa exists?
Hmmm...maybe this is a key way in which Santa differs from God. Many believers in God will do their utmost to try to persuade others that He exists. However, with Santa it is the other way round, and it is the non-believers who try to persuade others that He exists. This would appear to be an interesting psycho-social phenomenon.

I was actually trying to imply that the poster I was quoting was being a 3-year old by using the 'mp5' smiley in his post...Guess it didn't work, sorry.
Hmmmm....and here I thought, from his post, that maybe he just had it out for three-year olds.

Geez, the smilies should have a cap on them. Only 12 per week or something.

Simonist']You would punish a three year old for "behaving like a kid"?

That's sadistic.
Well, his name is "I V Stalin!" :p

I don't know if this has been brought up, I'm kinda lazy.

My chief problems with Santa as a kid where-

-He was shown with elves making all these handmade toys yet I kept getting brandname merchandise. Who was getting that wooden train? Did that mean I was good, because I got a Radio Shack remote control car instead, or bad?

-In all those movies, where the kids believe in Santa and the parents don't-when Santa turns out to be real those parents have to feel a bit shafted. Not only where they getting no Santa love, but for the first 6 years of thier lives their kids where also getting the shaft.

-It didn't snow where I lived. A sled would fuck up our roofs.

Well, his name is "I V Stalin!" :p
It's a right bastard living up to the name, I tell you!

I don't know if this has been brought up, I'm kinda lazy.

My chief problems with Santa as a kid where-

-He was shown with elves making all these handmade toys yet I kept getting brandname merchandise. Who was getting that wooden train? Did that mean I was good, because I got a Radio Shack remote control car instead, or bad?

-In all those movies, where the kids believe in Santa and the parents don't-when Santa turns out to be real those parents have to feel a bit shafted. Not only where they getting no Santa love, but for the first 6 years of thier lives their kids where also getting the shaft.

-It didn't snow where I lived. A sled would fuck up our roofs.
my highschool french teacher was so into christmas and santa that her husband would actually go up on the roof on christmas eve and stomp around.

they knew that it was time to stop when their daughter looked at him one christmas and said "daddy, thats YOU flying around up there isnt it?"