NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,177380,00.html
The interesting part I found was in the middle
A more sober reality, though, is that whatever slight impact humans might have on the climate, it is too small to measure – a point made in a study just published by Swiss researchers in the journal Quaternary Science Reviews (November 2005).

The study reviewed prior efforts to reconstruct global temperatures of the last 1,000 years. It concluded that natural temperature variations over the last millenium may have been so significant that they would “result in a redistribution of weight towards the role of natural factors in [causing] temperature changes, thereby relatively devaluing the impact of [manmade] emissions and affecting future predicted [global climate] scenarios.”

Looking for that Swiss study now....

so, um, i think i need a better citation

anybody see something that looks promising? (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=IssueURL&_tockey=%23TOC%235923%232005%23999759977%23606709%23FLA%23&_auth=y&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=19c073b08d1c19b4be40b4d2397c556b&view=c)

edit: nevermind, i think i found it (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6VBC-4GV983K-2&_user=10&_handle=V-WA-A-W-AB-MsSAYWW-UUA-U-AABZAAWWEB-AABBZEBUEB-CAVCAWZWV-AB-U&_fmt=summary&_coverDate=11%2F30%2F2005&_rdoc=2&_orig=browse&_srch=%23toc%235923%232005%23999759979%23606496!&_cdi=5923&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=fd3e2a28d61be9273fee7374299ed00e). now to see if my old school has access to it, and if they have erased me from their system yet...

I think we're completely presumptuous to think we can affect the environment so drastically so easily.

Did you know that one volcanic eruption puts out more CFCs and does more ozone damage than the entire CFC production of the entire earth throghout the entirety of history did?

Did you know that one volcanic eruption puts out more CFCs and does more ozone damage than the entire CFC production of the entire earth throghout the entirety of history did?

Did you know termites produce nearly 4 times the amount of CO2 that we do?

Global warming is happening, but the vast majority of it is natural in its origin; we only left the Little Ice age 155 years ago. This doesn't mean humans aren't affecting it (and we will only increase our effect if nothing is done about India or China's emissons), but we aren't causing it alone. If anything, we should be focusing on the pollution that is directly attributable to humans (like the carcinogenic benzene that was spilled in China, or the mercury in our oceans) rather than trying to stop what is likely inevitable.

Did you know that one volcanic eruption puts out more CFCs and does more ozone damage than the entire CFC production of the entire earth throghout the entirety of history did?
CFCs don't cause global warming. On the other hand, CO2 concentraions have increased massively since the industrial revolution.

Did you know termites produce nearly 4 times the amount of CO2 that we do?
Termites have been producing said CO2 for millions of years, whereas we've only been pumping it out in such large quantities for a century or so. The planet can adapt well to gradual changes, but we're forcing it to change quickly, and quick changes have a tendency to cause mass extinctions.

hey, what do you know, the fox news story by a climate-change creationist lied about what the journal article said. surprise, surprise.

"whatever slight impact humans might have on the climate, it is too small to measure – a point made in a study just published by Swiss researchers in the journal Quaternary Science Reviews (November 2005)."

bullshit. the paper actually was discussing the idea that our current proxy data for earlier hemisphere-level temperature averages, while good for showing climate shifts, still leaves a bit too much of a question mark as to the relative amplitude of earlier changes - the various reconstructions agree on the timing and direction of the changes, but there is some variablity about how big they were. it does not at all suggest that human impact is too small to measure.

Just because it's a small doesnt stop it having drastic effects.

Really, people, this ain't rocket science. We're cutting the trees, poisoning the algae, and just to be sure we're burning all the carbon we can find. Of course the CO2 levels are gonna soar, not to mention the other icky gases! Heck, even if you can't grasp that, there's data showing a steady increase in world temperature. What, the thermometers are lying now? I don't think so.

It's simple, we messed up and now we've gotta clean it up. Lying to ourselves won't help. Try it, jump from a skyscraper thinking you'll survive.

Just because it's a small doesnt stop it having drastic effects.
Indeed - such is the nature of chaotic systems.

Indeed - such is the nature of chaotic systems.

What makes a system chaotic? Lots of hidden variables?

It's simple, we messed up and now we've gotta clean it up. Lying to ourselves won't help. Try it, jump from a skyscraper thinking you'll survive.

The problem is that no one wants to take India and China to task, even though they are cranking out emissions at rates near those of the US but growing at double digits a year; all of the cuts in Europe and the US (even though we didn't sign Kyoto we're more or less flat emissionswise) are doing nothing because of these countries. Plus, their environmental records are disasterous and are putting far worse things than CO2 in to the air, soil, and oceans.

What makes a system chaotic? Lots of hidden variables?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory

I don't know how people can think that the whole industrial revolution had hardly any affect on the enviroment. If ignorance is bliss there must be a lot of people walking around with huge smile on their faces. Like this guy ->:D