NationStates Jolt Archive

Link (http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/story/0,,1656092,00.html)
Italian MPs want to bring in a law under which women would receive up to €350 per month from the start of the third month of pregnancy. Obviously, it's not just to stop abortion, as there are underlying demographic and economic problems in Italy (most notably a declining population), but is it right that women should be paid by the government to keep their child, when only 10-15% take place "for economic reasons"?

Sounds like an almost perfect prescription for a population explosion to me. :rolleyes:

Hmm. Get money for not aborting the kid - then put it up for adoption. Nice.

is it right that women should be paid by the government to keep their child, when only 10-15% take place "for economic reasons"?
Oh, so if you want to make some exra money it's always because you're starving.
It will appeal to whomever it would appeal. It is one of several "tactics", and I just can't picture the Italian gvt. going: "ok, two bucks extra for each woman and we'll have enough little Italians to flood the world with".

I think that's a terrific idea, provided €350 per month is enough (I have no idea what the Euro is worth).

...but is it right that women should be paid by the government to keep their child, when only 10-15% take place "for economic reasons"?
Any payment from the government is a good thing. :)

I don't know about the "right" of it, but I certainly wouldn't object if it happened here.

since most women dont have abortions its more like paying women to have babies.

sounds expensive to me.

I think that's a terrific idea, provided €350 per month is enough (I have no idea what the Euro is worth).
It's usually more than a dollar. So, it's more than 350 USD.

Not that it's necessarily my opinion, but it seems awfully offensive that people be paid not to "murder". Sort of demeaning to the human race as a whole, really.

But then, it's probably just another clever plot to screw people over, since the money they're paying will come out of a tax raise in the near future.

Don't forget that Italy is also Catholic which means that it disaproves of abortion for religious reasons...

So what if Italy is paying women not to have abortions, its not the only country to do so; its just a way of balancing a changing demography in western states (Many are now getting an ageing population, the argued Stage 5 on the demographic transition model)

Graham Harvey

Better still:
Create a national registry of people 100% opposed to abortion.
Anytime one of them the objects to a woman seeking an abortion, they have the privilege of paying for the mother's pre-natal care, all medical bills and the support, care, feeding, clothing, toys, housing, medical bills and education of that "saved" child until said child reaches the age of 21.
They will, of course, have no say whatsoever in how that child is cared for or raised. That will be up to the natural or adoptive parent or parents.
What's that you say?
It wouldn't be fair that abortion opponents should have to bear all those burdens while other people made life decisions for the child and parents?
Hmmm...
Really?
Goesingthall

Link (http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/story/0,,1656092,00.html)
Italian MPs want to bring in a law under which women would receive up to €350 per month from the start of the third month of pregnancy. Obviously, it's not just to stop abortion, as there are underlying demographic and economic problems in Italy (most notably a declining population), but is it right that women should be paid by the government to keep their child, when only 10-15% take place "for economic reasons"?
You're right, those people are nuts. Considering that the Earth's carrying capacity is 2.5 billion human, and we're well over 6 billion, we should be encouraging contraception, zero-population family planning, and increased abortions. I personally offer a crisp, fresh, $100 bill to anybody I know who finds themselves pregnant and chooses not to carry the pregnancy to term.

Sounds like an almost perfect prescription for a population explosion to me. :rolleyes:
But that's exactly what Italy is hoping for.

You're right, those people are nuts. Considering that the Earth's carrying capacity is 2.5 billion human, and we're well over 6 billion, we should be encouraging contraception, zero-population family planning, and increased abortions. I personally offer a crisp, fresh, $100 bill to anybody I know who finds themselves pregnant and chooses not to carry the pregnancy to term.

Where did you read that the carrying capaicity was 2.5bn, i have not heard this figure before. I agree with your statement (in places like Africa and places with high BRs) i am just interested in the source or proof behind your claim.

If that is the case and the capaicity is 2.5 bn, then we are going to be screwed by 2050 where it is projected to be 12-15bn (UN) (from the developing countries, developed!)

Graham

It costs more than €100000 to raise a child to eighteen. Anyone who takes a measly €2100 in exchange for a child for "economic reasons" is an idiot. Unfortunately their idiot gene is most likely to be passed on to their child. So this bill is a sort of counter eugenics designed to turn the brains of europe into a soft cheese. Cool.

You're right, those people are nuts. Considering that the Earth's carrying capacity is 2.5 billion human, and we're well over 6 billion, we should be encouraging contraception, zero-population family planning, and increased abortions. I personally offer a crisp, fresh, $100 bill to anybody I know who finds themselves pregnant and chooses not to carry the pregnancy to term.

Well, Italy has a very low birthrate, I hear, so maybe this is intended to keep Italy from dissappearing off the face of the Earth.

Actually, unless "carrying capacity" has been used very liberally we are living an impossibility. As far as I can remember from my Biology class, the whole point is that carrying capcity is THE maximum population you can reach.

This is the worst idea I have heard since giving more money to welfare mothers for having more kids. Wait a minute...

You're right, those people are nuts. Considering that the Earth's carrying capacity is 2.5 billion human, and we're well over 6 billion, we should be encouraging contraception, zero-population family planning, and increased abortions. I personally offer a crisp, fresh, $100 bill to anybody I know who finds themselves pregnant and chooses not to carry the pregnancy to term.
Or we could push for genetical engineered crops that produce far more output then the current crossbreed crops can...

It costs more than €100000 to raise a child to eighteen. Anyone who takes a measly €2100 in exchange for a child for "economic reasons" is an idiot. Unfortunately their idiot gene is most likely to be passed on to their child. So this bill is a sort of counter eugenics designed to turn the brains of europe into a soft cheese. Cool.
The cost is not intended to support a child, but to subsidize the mother's income enough to make raising the child feasible.

The cost is not intended to support a child, but to subsidize the mother's income.
I smell sexual discrimination. Are men going to get paid as well?

I smell sexual discrimination. Are men going to get paid as well?
No; and there is no discrimination. The offer is made to single mothers or low-income families.

The baby bonuses would be made available to two kinds of beneficiary. Single women with an income of less than €25,000 a year would be entitled to €350 a month from the start of the third month of their pregnancy. Those who were unemployed or working on temporary contracts, with a family income of less than €40,000 a year, would get €250 a month from the start of the sixth month.

This idea is really shit. It's going to lead to a downward spiral of unnecessary state expenditure and will do nothing about the problem that is welfare mothers.

Great encourage the poor single parents to breed rather than the better off :rolleyes:

You're right, those people are nuts. Considering that the Earth's carrying capacity is 2.5 billion human, and we're well over 6 billion, we should be encouraging contraception, zero-population family planning, and increased abortions. I personally offer a crisp, fresh, $100 bill to anybody I know who finds themselves pregnant and chooses not to carry the pregnancy to term.
Hey! I'm preggers! [ snatches the bill and escapes ] Mwahahaha! :D

I smell sexual discrimination. Are men going to get paid as well?
No. We're paid to not f**k! It's called "reverse prostitution!" :D