NationStates Jolt Archive

What size ammo do U.S. snipers use, 7,65mm?

What size ammo do U.S. snipers use, 7,65mm?
Depends what rifle it is. The Barret uses bullets which are practically cannon shells.

Here's a list given to me by a friend:
.50,
.45,
.44,
7.62 mm,
7.92 mm,
300 Winchester Magnum,
.22,
There are tons more, practically every kind imaginable.

Pretty much depends on the target. 200 yards out, a 7.62 will do the trick.
A mile and a half out, .50 is the way to go! ;)

7.65mm was what James Bond used to use (PPK days)

What size ammo do U.S. snipers use, 7,65mm?

The Standard issue M21s, M24s and M40s used by the US amry and USMC all use 7.62x51mm NATO ammo (also known as .308Win), a few units are equipped with the Barret M82/M107(models A1-A3)s which fire 12.7x99mm ammo also known as .50 BMG.

In a few year time the XM109 should come into service using the 25mm OCSW round (badically a grenade).

Special forces of course use all sorts of odd and different rounds but the only other rpound with anythign like a general issue is the .499Leiter-Wise that is used by the coast gaurd.

Almost all .308 cal. the barret is .50 cal. .

What size ammo do U.S. snipers use, 7,65mm?

The M-24 rifle used by the US Army is 7.62x51mm NATO
The M-40 rifle used by the US Marines is 7.62x51mm NATO
The M-24 is capable of being modified to use 300 Winchester Magnum ammunition, and some have been sent back to the factory for this modification - however, there are plans to retire the M-24 in favor of a new rifle.
The new Army rifle is the XM-110, which fires a special variant of the 5.56mm NATO cartridge (using a heavier 77 grain bullet).
http://www.knightarmco.com/sass.pdf

The Barrett and other .50 BMG caliber sniper rifles have been used by the US Marines and US Army, but they are not the standard issue sniper rifle. The Marines in particular use them for shooting at land mines.

The US Army is currently evaluating another sniper rifle by Prairie Gun Works called the Timberwolf, in 338 Lapua Magnum.

The M-24 rifle used by the US Army is 7.62x51mm NATO
The M-40 rifle used by the US Marines is 7.62x51mm NATO
The M-24 is capable of being modified to use 300 Winchester Magnum ammunition, and some have been sent back to the factory for this modification - however, there are plans to retire the M-24 in favor of a new rifle.
The new Army rifle is the XM-110, which fires a special variant of the 5.56mm NATO cartridge (using a heavier 77 grain bullet).
http://www.knightarmco.com/sass.pdf

The Barrett and other .50 BMG caliber sniper rifles have been used by the US Marines and US Army, but they are not the standard issue sniper rifle. The Marines in particular use them for shooting at land mines.

The US Army is currently evaluating another sniper rifle by Prairie Gun Works called the Timberwolf, in 338 Lapua Magnum.


Mixed up the XM-110's caliber - it is also 7.62x51mm.

There is another similar rifle used by Special Forces that is for sniper work in 5.56mm NATO (using special cartridges).

Here is the current Special Forces rifle.
The ammunition is 5.56mm, Mk 262 Mod 1.
The rifle is called the Mk 12 rifle.
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ammunition/mk262_080105/

When a five-man Special Forces team looking for Scuds in Iraq ran into a reinforced Iraqi infantry company, the future looked grim for the Americans. Facing overwhelming odds, it was quickly decided that three men armed with sniper rifles would cover a hasty retreat back to the LZ. With these odds death--or worse--seemed certain.

Yet the ensuing firefight did not go as the Iraqis had planned. Rather than being overwhelmed, the three Americans instead put down a hail of highly accurate rifle fire. Advancing against this murderous wall, entire sections of Iraqi infantry were simply cut down. Screaming and rattling away with their Kalashnikovs on full auto, they were knocked from their feet by carefully aimed shots. When staggering losses finally broke their spirit, the surviving Iraqis either threw down their weapons or simply ran away. Scattered about lay the bodies of 167 of their comrades. The Iraqi dead lay in mute testimony to the Americans' tenacity and marksmanship skill.

Mixed up the XM-110's caliber - it is also 7.62x51mm.

There is another similar rifle used by Special Forces that is for sniper work in 5.56mm NATO (using special cartridges).


I read something on "case-less" ammo a year or so ago, but havent seen anything on it since. It was possibly going to be accurate at long distances and certainly lighter,so more per man could be carried.
I'm betting you know more about it?

I read something on "case-less" ammo a year or so ago, but havent seen anything on it since. It was possibly going to be accurate at long distances and certainly lighter,so more per man could be carried.
I'm betting you know more about it?

The last caseless rifle was the G-11, a developmental prototype by H&K. Due to budgetary constraints and the end of the Cold War, the whole project was shelved. The G-11 was more accurate at typical combat distances of around 100 meters, and was not a suitable sniper weapon. It had an increase in accuracy at short ranges because it employed a special 3-round burst at a cyclic rate of 2000 rounds per minute - you heard one bang and three closely spaced projectiles went downrange.

Almost all accuracy improvements in sniper rifles since the 1950s come directly from developments in benchrest shooting. Barrel technology, cartridge technology, scopes, stocks, bedding techniques, shooting techniques - all from benchrest shooting.

The cartridge case is here to stay for now, largely because it plays a very large factor in consistency of ignition and consistency of placement of the projectile in the chamber prior to firing.

The G-11 cartridge was by far the best caseless round developed to date - it was resistant to "cook-off", but its ignition is nowhere near as reliable as a cased round, and it was not durable under conditions involving water.

The last caseless rifle was the G-11, a developmental prototype by H&K. Due to budgetary constraints and the end of the Cold War, the whole project was shelved.

I thought it was shelved because NATO wanted standardised munitions for its ground troops? The 5.56mm round?


The G-11 cartridge was by far the best caseless round developed to date - it was resistant to "cook-off", but its ignition is nowhere near as reliable as a cased round, and it was not durable under conditions involving water.

Didn't the HITP cartridge solve those problems?

I thought it was shelved because NATO wanted standardised munitions for its ground troops? The 5.56mm round?

The Germans wanted to go ahead with the smaller round. H&K spent a lot of its own money developing the weapon and cartridge, and when the German government decided to cut its military budget as the Cold War wound down, H&K took a bath and was bought out.

Didn't the HITP cartridge solve those problems?
The Germans solved the problem by making the HITP cartridge - they invented it. It doesn't use smokeless powder (another major logistical hurdle - we have plenty of smokeless powder factories).

The last caseless rifle was the G-11, a developmental prototype by H&K. Due to budgetary constraints and the end of the Cold War, the whole project was shelved. The G-11 was more accurate at typical combat distances of around 100 meters, and was not a suitable sniper weapon. It had an increase in accuracy at short ranges because it employed a special 3-round burst at a cyclic rate of 2000 rounds per minute - you heard one bang and three closely spaced projectiles went downrange.

Almost all accuracy improvements in sniper rifles since the 1950s come directly from developments in benchrest shooting. Barrel technology, cartridge technology, scopes, stocks, bedding techniques, shooting techniques - all from benchrest shooting.

The cartridge case is here to stay for now, largely because it plays a very large factor in consistency of ignition and consistency of placement of the projectile in the chamber prior to firing.

The G-11 cartridge was by far the best caseless round developed to date - it was resistant to "cook-off", but its ignition is nowhere near as reliable as a cased round, and it was not durable under conditions involving water.

That explanation makes sense. When I had read about it, it seemed like it was inevitable and right around the corner.

Pretty much depends on the target. 200 yards out, a 7.62 will do the trick.
A mile and a half out, .50 is the way to go! ;)
True: http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=457100 :D

http://www.cheytac.com/

The 408 Cheytac cartridge shoots flatter, further, and drifts less in the wind than the 50 BMG cartridge. Doesn't hit as hard, but the difference is not great.

The Cheytac rifle also comes with a ballistic computer, which allows first round hits on man-sized targets at extreme ranges.

The Germans wanted to go ahead with the smaller round. H&K spent a lot of its own money developing the weapon and cartridge, and when the German government decided to cut its military budget as the Cold War wound down, H&K took a bath and was bought out.

German military budget was one concern, but I remember there being some noise about NATO wantin standaradised rounds that influenced it.


The Germans solved the problem by making the HITP cartridge - they invented it. It doesn't use smokeless powder (another major logistical hurdle - we have plenty of smokeless powder factories).

Production infrastructure aside, was there any other reason why the HITP cartridge doesn't trump brass cartridges?

German military budget was one concern, but I remember there being some noise about NATO wantin standaradised rounds that influenced it.

Production infrastructure aside, was there any other reason why the HITP cartridge doesn't trump brass cartridges?

In a precision rifle, the brass cartridge is an essential element in ensuring that the projectile itself starts in exactly the same place for every shot.

Differences in dimension as small as 1/10,000th of an inch can produce a miss at ranges as short as 300 yards.

The HITP cartridge is deformable with finger pressure.

A lot of work has been done on making precision cartridges as well - some are inherently more accurate than others, mostly the result of the timing of ignition and burn rate (over millionths of a second). The PPC family of cartridges, as well as the 308 Winchester (7.62mm NATO) are inherently more accurate than other cartridges that fire the same caliber projectile - in some cases several hundred percent more accurate.

The HITP cartridge, fired singly, has too much lateral dispersion due to inconsistent ignition. Inconsistent, that is, for sniping use. The inconsistency actually serves to its advantage in a rapid burst weapon at 100 meters, because the three rounds will cover a roughly six inch circle.

So in short, its a lousy sniper cartridge. But that shouldn't be a point when used in comparison against calibers it was meant to perform against? I mean, it was after all, designed as an assault rifle round was it not? Although later variants included a LMG and PDW type if memory serves.

So in short, its a lousy sniper cartridge. But that shouldn't be a point when used in comparison against calibers it was meant to perform against? I mean, it was after all, designed as an assault rifle round was it not? Although later variants included a LMG and PDW type if memory serves.
Yes, but we're talking about sniper cartridges in this thread.

Probably a great assault rifle round. Especially since you can carry so many.