Plato?
New Better Ireland
01-12-2005, 22:48
Is the book Jennifer Government anything like Plato's book"The Republic?
Drunk commies deleted
01-12-2005, 22:49
It's actually plagiarized word for word from Plato's Republic but nobody notices because it's not in Greek.
Is the book Jennifer Government anything like Plato's book"The Republic?
A resounding no.
Neo Mishakal
01-12-2005, 23:59
It's actually plagiarized word for word from Plato's Republic but nobody notices because it's not in Greek.
Riiight.... Plato wrote about Evil Corporations, global government, notebook computers, and a chick with a barcode tattoo on her face... All before the invention of SOAP!!!:rolleyes:
DrunkenDove
02-12-2005, 00:08
Your humour detector seems to have failed you.
Drunk commies deleted
02-12-2005, 00:14
Riiight.... Plato wrote about Evil Corporations, global government, notebook computers, and a chick with a barcode tattoo on her face... All before the invention of SOAP!!!:rolleyes:
Damn, that's some heavy shit. So why does everyone think so highly of Nostradamus? Clearly Plato was a better prophet.
Not that I know of. Plato's politics are quite different, to say the least, and The Republic was more of a nonfiction philosophical work.
Ashmoria
02-12-2005, 00:25
the biggest difference is that you can enjoy reading jennifer government but plato's republic is best used as a substitute for sleeping pills.
The Cat-Tribe
02-12-2005, 00:34
Is the book Jennifer Government anything like Plato's book"The Republic?
Beyond being books, I'm not sure what else they have in common.
the biggest difference is that you can enjoy reading jennifer government but plato's republic is best used as a substitute for sleeping pills.
:D
Beyond being books, I'm not sure what else they have in common.
Indeed
Didn't Plato say that women are sinful men reincarnated? I don't remember Jennifer Government ever saying anything like that. Besides, The Republic is one of the most boring books ever. JG wasn't and I read it in only a few hours.
Didn't Plato say that women are sinful men reincarnated? I don't remember Jennifer Government ever saying anything like that. Besides, The Republic is one of the most boring books ever. JG wasn't and I read it in only a few hours.
Well, I do know that he was very authoritarian. His republic would have made the USSR look free.
Shasoria
02-12-2005, 00:51
Well, I do know that he was very authoritarian. His republic would have made the USSR look free.
Eh, that's cause Plato believed that sometimes what was best for the people wasn't necessarily what they thought was best for themselves. He would have established an oligarchy and rule by the intelligent. So yes, it wouldn't have been democratic, but that wasn't Plato's concern, as even democratic governments don't address what truly is best for the people, but what the people think is best for themselves.
Well, I do know that he was very authoritarian. His republic would have made the USSR look free.
I'd prefer More's Utopia myself. Better than the philosopher-kings thought up by these guys. (Aristotle and the like).
Shasoria
02-12-2005, 00:58
I'd prefer More's Utopia myself. Better than the philosopher-kings thought up by these guys. (Aristotle and the like).
It's called Utopia for a reason.
Thumosovo
02-12-2005, 01:15
Well, I do know that he was very authoritarian. His republic would have made the USSR look free.
Actually, Plato used the Republic to show that democracy, specifically Athenean democracy is great. His philosopher king city was just to show that if we wanted a perfect society we would have to give up personal freedoms and communize everything and that's not in human nature, people would not do it. Therefore, we should be happy and content with democracy.
The Elder Malaclypse
02-12-2005, 01:24
Didn't Plato say that women are sinful men reincarnated? I don't remember Jennifer Government ever saying anything like that. Besides, The Republic is one of the most boring books ever. JG wasn't and I read it in only a few hours.
Boring? Have you read Meno?
The Cat-Tribe
02-12-2005, 01:26
Actually, Plato used the Republic to show that democracy, specifically Athenean democracy is great. His philosopher king city was just to show that if we wanted a perfect society we would have to give up personal freedoms and communize everything and that's not in human nature, people would not do it. Therefore, we should be happy and content with democracy.
That is one of the strangest theories I have ever heard about Plato's Republic.
Plato was firmly anti-democracy.
The Elder Malaclypse
02-12-2005, 01:29
Actually, Plato used the Republic to show that democracy, specifically Athenean democracy is great. His philosopher king city was just to show that if we wanted a perfect society we would have to give up personal freedoms and communize everything and that's not in human nature, people would not do it. Therefore, we should be happy and content with democracy.
Uhh, Plato made The Republic because he was pissed off that Socrates was executed (under a Democratic govt). And wanted to show that democracy was shitey.
Boring? Have you read Meno?
No but I tried reading Moby Dick. What the hell do I care about the different kind of whales? :rolleyes:
The Infinite Dunes
02-12-2005, 01:59
Wow, some people sure have strange ideas about the republic. Plato describes oligarchy as the 2nd deviation from his ideal state and democracy being a very poor form of government, second only to tyranny. With regards to the oligarchy and mix of democracy comment I think someone got Aristotle confused with Plato.
Scarily, Plato suggests that the second best form of government is Timarchy, which, I think, bares at least a few resemblences to the USA.
Also, 'The Republic' is a poor translation of the book's Greek name. Something like 'The Constitution' (as in the 'consituients of', not a Constitution) or would be more apt. Plus I think Thrasymachus is a very weak character in the dialogues, Plato could have made his arguments much stronger.
I guess you could vaguely compare the republic and JG. Except that current day society would have lapsed into a Tyranny (think of the emerging personality cults emerging) rather than back into an oligarchy. I haven't read JG for a long time. But perhaps you could compare the characters to Plato's Timarchic, Oligarhic, Democratic, and Tyrannical characters.
Plus I think Thrasymachus is a very weak character in the dialogues, Plato could have made his arguments much stronger.
Wasn't he the Nietzschean character?
Ashmoria
02-12-2005, 02:15
No but I tried reading Moby Dick. What the hell do I care about the different kind of whales? :rolleyes:
yes but surely you enjoyed the part on severed whale heads??
The Infinite Dunes
02-12-2005, 02:17
Wasn't he the Nietzschean character?The Sophist. That is, the mercenary. They (the sophists) claimed to have all the answers and would sell their 'knowledge' to those who wished to buy it, and if I recall correctly they quite frequently just told you what you wanted to know. I wouldn't think of him as Nietzschean.
Riiight.... Plato wrote about Evil Corporations, global government, notebook computers, and a chick with a barcode tattoo on her face... All before the invention of SOAP!!!:rolleyes:
Plato wrote The Republic before 2800BC? Sheesh, that's news to me...
I wouldn't think of him as Nietzschean.
Letila's confusion is probably because Thrasymachus espoused the 'might is right' position, which, of course, puts him far closer to Hobbes than Nietzsche.
yes but surely you enjoyed the part on severed whale heads??
YAWN! I'll just stick with the movie that has Patrick Stewart as Captain Ahab. He's perfect for the role!
YAWN! I'll just stick with the movie that has Patrick Stewart as Captain Ahab. He's perfect for the role!
Hey, I liked the novel Moby Dick.
Hands up them what payed enough attention to learn what a flensing rod is for:
* raises hand *
Europa Maxima
02-12-2005, 03:03
Eh, that's cause Plato believed that sometimes what was best for the people wasn't necessarily what they thought was best for themselves. He would have established an oligarchy and rule by the intelligent. So yes, it wouldn't have been democratic, but that wasn't Plato's concern, as even democratic governments don't address what truly is best for the people, but what the people think is best for themselves.
I share his views.
Hey, I liked the novel Moby Dick.
Hands up them what payed enough attention to learn what a flensing rod is for:
* raises hand *
Thought it's just the tool to use to get rid of the blubber from a whale. :confused:
Thumosovo
02-12-2005, 03:50
Glaucon is very idealistic and doesn't like Athenian government. So, Plato builds for him a perfectly just city, that of the philosopher kings in which everything is communized, including family. Also in this city the philosophers would rule. But this would not last long because people would forget why the philosophers are in place. So, an honor-seeking government would form; however, once these people are in power they will become corrupt and an oligarchy will form and this will deteriorate into a democracy and lastly a tyranny.
Plato is showing Glaucon that he must be careful. He is idealistic and wants the perfect government; however, to acheive that perfect government people would have to sacrifice family and property. This is not in human nature. Therefore, we should not try to mess with a system/athenian democracy which works.
Plato, like Socrates, liked Athenian democracy. Athens was the only place they would have been allowed to do what they did. In Sparta they would have been forced to be soldiers and could have never been philosophers. The needed Athens.
Thumosovo
02-12-2005, 03:52
Socrates speaks to Glaucon, not Plato, sorry bout that