NationStates Jolt Archive

Isn't it strange that some languages have words for concepts that other languages don't?

Why is it that German has the word "Schadenfreude" (meaning to take delight in another person's misfortune) and English does not? Does French, or Swahili have such a word?

What about "Zeitgeist" - another German word that seems to have no clear equivalent in English. (By the way, it means literally "the spirit of the times", ie the things currently en vogue* culturally etc.)

Is it simply that English is such a poor language as far as vocabulary is concerned, or is there some real reason for why German should have these words and English should not.

Do you know of any other such words?

*hehe...see what I did there? ;)

Isn't it strange that some languages have words for concepts that other languages don't?

Why is it that German has the word "Schadenfreude" (meaning to take delight in another person's misfortune) and English does not? Does French, or Swahili have such a word?

What about "Zeitgeist" - another German word that seems to have no clear equivalent in English. (By the way, it means literally "the spirit of the times", ie the things currently en vogue* culturally etc.)

Is it simply that English is such a poor language as far as vocabulary is concerned, or is there some real reason for why German should have these words and English should not.

Do you know of any other such words?

*hehe...see what I did there? ;)


French has a word for the soft part of the bread (mie du pain), which neither English nor German have. Both only have a word for the crust.

Kind of like the Swedish word lagom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagom) that Fass commented on in another thread.

Swedish has a word for "Schadenfreude": "Skadeglad", though that's not very surprising considering that the two languages are relatively close to each other.

"Skadeglädjen är den enda sanna glädjen"
(Skadeglädjen is the only true happiness.) :)

Isn't it strange that some languages have words for concepts that other languages don't?

Why is it that German has the word "Schadenfreude" (meaning to take delight in another person's misfortune) and English does not? Does French, or Swahili have such a word?

What about "Zeitgeist" - another German word that seems to have no clear equivalent in English. (By the way, it means literally "the spirit of the times", ie the things currently en vogue* culturally etc.)

Is it simply that English is such a poor language as far as vocabulary is concerned, or is there some real reason for why German should have these words and English should not.

Do you know of any other such words?

*hehe...see what I did there? ;)

Maybe it's because Germans "take delight in another person's misfortune" more than anyone else.

There's no English word for Blitzkreig either. Or the phrase: "unnutze Esser".

Swedish has a word for "Schadenfreude": "Skadeglad", though that's not very surprising considering that the two languages are relatively close to each other.
Yeah, go Swedish! :)

Have to have many English words to describe something that Swedish kan in one big long word all the time.

Maybe it's because Germans "take delight in another person's misfortune" more than anyone else.
Hmmm...that's a bit of a stretch, considering that the word has probably been around before any of the times that have stigmatised Germany somewhat.

There's no English word for Blitzkreig either. Or the phrase: "unnutze Esser".
There is an English word for the both of them: "Lightning Warfare" and "useless eaters". You can argue about how often they are used...but to be honest I don't think I have ever heard anyone use the phrase "unnütze Esser" before either...

Kind of like the Swedish word lagom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagom) that Fass commented on in another thread.

Swedish has a word for "Schadenfreude": "Skadeglad", though that's not very surprising considering that the two languages are relatively close to each other.

"Skadeglädjen är den enda sanna glädjen"
(Skadeglädjen is the only true happiness.) :)
Dutch has "Leedvermaak"

"Leedvermaak is het beste vermaak"
"Leedvermaak is the best entertainment"

Isn't it strange that some languages have words for concepts that other languages don't?

Why is it that German has the word "Schadenfreude" (meaning to take delight in another person's misfortune) and English does not? Does French, or Swahili have such a word?

*hehe...see what I did there? ;)

Sadist, Sadistic, Sadism. English words meaning basically the same thing as Schadenfreude.

Sadist, Sadistic, Sadism. English words meaning basically the same thing as Schadenfreude.
It's not really the same...Sadism (of course coming from French...Marquis de Sade) is a lot more sinister, evil and sexual concept.
Schadenfreude is not inherently a bad thing, it's much more harmless fun.

Is it simply that English is such a poor language as far as vocabulary is concerned, or is there some real reason for why German should have these words and English should not.
German sticks words together to make new words (our German teacher at school used to delight in teaching us words with dozens of letters), whereas we just have to stick with using adjectives. So 'Schadenfreude' becomes 'shameful joy'. Note than the English equivalent has one fewer syllable (and fewer letters) - so English is more efficient here, as spaces are just a convenience used when writing a language.

It's not really the same...Sadism (of course coming from French...Marquis de Sade) is a lot more sinister, evil and sexual concept.
Schadenfreude is not inherently a bad thing, it's much more harmless fun.
because laughing at someone when they fall on their arse isn't really sadistic.

Decapitation in Swedish: halshugga, or more easy tranlsated into English as "neck chop," as one Swede pointed out here.

German has much the same concept. "Space between adjectives and nouns? Why? Lets make a new word!" :D

Sadist, Sadistic, Sadism. English words meaning basically the same thing as Schadenfreude.
No. Sadist makes other people hurt for own pleasure, The other is not an active participant

because laughing at someone when they fall on their arse isn't really sadistic.

Not if they laugh too.

So 'Schadenfreude' becomes 'shameful joy'
I'm not sure whether that catches it..."shameful joy" denotes a joy that you should somehow be ashamed of, doesn't it?
Schadenfreude means something different.

....so English is more efficient here, as spaces are just a convenience used when writing a language.
But I found many times that you lose a lot of nuances, of little secondary meanings, of emotional appeal when you translate German into English. I always found it much easier the other way around.

Orwell was right with his "newspeak" idea - we often don't even realise all the other things that a word means to us.

I just found out yesterday that French doesn't have a word for German 'Feierabend'. How very, very sad :D

what about german words, that don´t exist anymor?

Like "Sendeschluss" ...

I just found out yesterday that French doesn't have a word for German 'Feierabend'. How very, very sad :D
The French of all people?

That is sad.

But I found many times that you lose a lot of nuances, of little secondary meanings, of emotional appeal when you translate German into English. I always found it much easier the other way around.
Ah, but German is your first language, isn't it? So you might be missing the subtle nuances in English. Consider the following words, which refer to the same basic concept but have subtley different connotations:

thin
slim
skinny
svelte
scrawny
haggard
lanky
slight
flimsy
emaciated
twiggy

Could you translate each of them into a specific German word?

Could you translate each of them into a specific German word?
I take your point (and acknowledge that I wouldn't even have known what half those words mean...:D).

But still...I just found that today with the German word "Anstand". Again there is a slightly philosophical, moral concept involved, and again I found it very difficult to come up with an English equivalent.
http://www.dict.cc/?s=anstand
Decency comes close...but still falls a little short.

And why English doesn't have a word for "Zeitgeist" is still beyond me. It's not just about putting together small words to make a big one - the word "Zeitgeist" carries a whole new meaning, independent of its roots.

The French have a term called "Esprit D'Escalier" (Spirit of the staircase).

It refers to all the clever things you think of that you could have said in a discussion but didn't when you're already on your way home.

But still...I just found that today with the German word "Anstand". Again there is a slightly philosophical, moral concept involved, and again I found it very difficult to come up with an English equivalent.
http://www.dict.cc/?s=anstand
Decency comes close...but still falls a little short.

Altruism?

I take your point (and acknowledge that I wouldn't even have known what half those words mean...:D).
Here's a rough guide to the differences:

slim - thin, but not necessarily in a bad way
skinny - thin, but in a slightly bad way
svelte - thin, but in an attractive way (used in reference to women)
scrawny - thin, in an unattractive way (used in reference to children)
haggard - like scrawny, but used in reference to older men
lanky - like scrawny, but used in reference to tall teenager boys
slight - like svelte, but slightly more neutral
flimsy - like slight, but indicate a worrying delicateness
emaciated - extremely thin, almost starving
twiggy - thin, but slighty positive (used as the nickname of a 60's British model)

And why English doesn't have a word for "Zeitgeist" is still beyond me. It's not just about putting together small words to make a big one - the word "Zeitgeist" carries a whole new meaning, independent of its roots.
We have the phrase 'spirit of the times', which I think was used long before people wanted to translate 'Zeitgeist'.

The French have a term called "Esprit D'Escalier" (Spirit of the staircase).

It refers to all the clever things you think of that you could have said in a discussion but didn't when you're already on your way home.

Heheh, that one is cool. We all know the feeling :p

(...)Could you translate each of them into a specific German word?


Basically, it’s hard to compare languages, as any language has its own originalities. It’s exhausting and needless. Yes, there are English phrasings that are hard to translate and vice versa.
Let’s take the English word ‘to put’. Do you know how many meanings this one word has in German? I just figured it out.

‘to put’ can be translated as:
antreiben, anwenden, ausdrücken, befestigen, bepflanzen, fahren, formulieren, investigieren, legen, münden, sagen, schätzen, schleudern, setzen, stecken, stellen, unterwerfen, unterziehen, veranlassen, verlocken, verwenden, werfen, wetten, zuschieben, Geld anlegen, sich begeben, sich ergießen. (Source: http://dict.leo.org/?lp=ende&lang=de&searchLoc=0&cmpType=relaxed&relink=on&sectHdr=on&spellToler=std&search=put )

If we take one word out of the list of the German words randomly … let’s just use the first one ‘antreiben’ and translate it back into English with the same source then the outcome will be:

To abet, to activate, to actuate, to drive, to goad, to hurry, to impel, to incite, to move, to power, to press, to prompt, to propel, to provoke, to push, to start, to drive on, to egg on, to goad on, tu push on … and .. of course … to put.

See? It’s always a matter of opinion. And a matter of the use of the Language. There are enough native speakers of both languages with only poor vocabulary. These English speaking guys would maybe only use ‘to put’ under any circumstances if they would translate ‘antreiben’. Any language has its own style and there’s nothing good or bad with it, it’s just a different language. And every language has something like a spirit. There’s something in any language, that you have to “feel” and which you can’t learn in school …

With this background I also figured out your examples:

thin = dünn, geringfügig, schütter, spröde
slim = rank, schlank
skinny = dünn, mager, die Insiderinformation
svelte = anmutig, schlank
scrawny = dürr, schlank
haggard = abgehärmt, abgemagert, abgezehrt, ausgezehrt, eingefallen, hager, verhärmt, verstört, wild
lanky = schlaksig, schmächtig
slight = dünn, entfernt, gering, geringfügig, klein, leicht, leichtgradig, schwach, unbedeutend, unwichtig, die Kränkung, and ‚to slight’ means ‚beleidigen’
flimsy = dünn, hauchdünn, leicht, schwach, zart, and, as a noun: Durchschlagpapier, Florpost, Zwiebelhautpapier
emaciated = abgemagert, ausgemergelt, abgemergelt
twiggy = dünn.

You see? It seems, that German is having significantly more words at its disposal, but I’m sure if you’d re-translate it like I did as mentioned, there will be loads of other English words, too …
It’s exhausting, indeed! :)

The French of all people?

That is sad.
I know. I tried to get them to understand that they were missing out on a great concept, but they didn't seem to grasp the importance of this vocab deprivation.

- snip -
You see? It seems, that German is having significantly more words at its disposal, but I’m sure if you’d re-translate it like I did as mentioned, there will be loads of other English words, too …
It’s exhausting, indeed! :)

Man, that was quite an effort! Very good point, too.

But still...I just found that today with the German word "Anstand". Again there is a slightly philosophical, moral concept involved, and again I found it very difficult to come up with an English equivalent.

Well, there is an example involving a philosophical, moral concept that works just the other way round:

In German, both "happiness" and "luck" have only one equivalent: "Glück". That one has been bugging me for a while now. In this instance, at least, I think that German is actually a very poor language, if the best it can do is use the same word for winning 10 bucks in the lottery (or even catching the train at the last minute or something) as for describing real happiness (through love, children, whatever, take your pick).

Isn't it strange that some languages have words for concepts that other languages don't?

Why is it that German has the word "Schadenfreude" (meaning to take delight in another person's misfortune) and English does not? Does French, or Swahili have such a word?

What about "Zeitgeist" - another German word that seems to have no clear equivalent in English. (By the way, it means literally "the spirit of the times", ie the things currently en vogue* culturally etc.)

Is it simply that English is such a poor language as far as vocabulary is concerned, or is there some real reason for why German should have these words and English should not.

Do you know of any other such words?

*hehe...see what I did there? ;)

Well, here in the US I believe schadenfreude would be what we call "rubbernecking". Zeitgeist might be similar to "trend".

You see? It seems, that German is having significantly more words at its disposal, but I’m sure if you’d re-translate it like I did as mentioned, there will be loads of other English words, too …
Of course. I wasn't trying to imply that English is better than German - I was just arguing that it's not true to say that English is missing the subtle nuances that German has.

1. slim et alii, here goes.

schlank: slim - thin, but not necessarily in a bad way
dünn, dürr: skinny - thin, but in a slightly bad way
gertenschlank: svelte - thin, but in an attractive way (used in reference to women)
mager: scrawny - thin, in an unattractive way (used in reference to children)
hager: haggard - like scrawny, but used in reference to older men
schlaksig: lanky - like scrawny, but used in reference to tall teenager boys
schmal: slight - like svelte, but slightly more neutral

ausgemergelt: emaciated - extremely thin, almost starving
spindeldürr: twiggy - thin, but slighty positive (used as the nickname of a 60's British model)

"flimsy" I can't do. Any suggestions? Something along the lines of "nervöse Magerkeit"

EDIT: Highland Island has beaten me to it. Excellent post!


What concerns "Schadenfreude": from hundreds of thousands of German words, it is "Schadenfreude" that makes it into English. I'm not so sure whether this says more about the importer than the source.

To the best of my knowledge, English is the most wordy language on the planet. But I'm guessing German isn't too far behind with all the German technical litterature around.

Isn't it strange that some languages have words for concepts that other languages don't?

Why is it that German has the word "Schadenfreude" (meaning to take delight in another person's misfortune) and English does not? Does French, or Swahili have such a word?

What about "Zeitgeist" - another German word that seems to have no clear equivalent in English. (By the way, it means literally "the spirit of the times", ie the things currently en vogue* culturally etc.)

Is it simply that English is such a poor language as far as vocabulary is concerned, or is there some real reason for why German should have these words and English should not.

Do you know of any other such words?

*hehe...see what I did there? ;)


You're able to invent new words in German simply by cramming old words together. You can even go further, and contract that word into an unrecognizable abbreviation, or just shorten it and you know that everyone knows what you mean.

Panzerkampfwagen, or PzKw, or "Panzer"

Welsh has got a lovely one: hiraeth. Some people translate it as "homesickness" but that lacks the full depth of meaning. Put poetically (and is there any other way in Welsh?) it could be "deep longing for the spirit of the far distant land of my fathers". Its kind of like a tugging at the soul.

To the best of my knowledge, English is the most wordy language on the planet. But I'm guessing German isn't too far behind with all the German technical litterature around.

Agree. Firstly, English often has two or three words for one German word, one Anglo-Saxon, one French, one Latin, like kingly - royal - regal, for example. German only has one word for that, königlich.

Secondly, English imports words from languages all around the globe. German these days imports mainly from English, the result of which is a horrible melange that is neither German nor English, but so-called Denglisch.

Is it simply that English is such a poor language as far as vocabulary is concerned


I doubt it - English has a larger vocabulary than practically every other language - it's the easiest to learn, the hardest to master.

I doubt it - English has a larger vocabulary than practically every other language - it's the easiest to learn, the hardest to master.

Too damn right.
Verdammt richtig.

Too damn right.
Verdammt richtig.
I still think that people cursing in German sounds way cool compared to other languages. It sounds formal and irritated in a very official sounding way.

I was told that Germans never stop and go 'errrr...' halfway through a sentence (unlike most English speakers) because they have to think of exactly what they're going to say before they say it (what with the verb going at the end and everything) or else it doesn't make sense.


Is this true? I haven't spent enough time in a German's company to test it.

I was told that Germans never stop and go 'errrr...' halfway through a sentence (unlike most English speakers) because they have to think of exactly what they're going to say before they say it (what with the verb going at the end and everything) or else it doesn't make sense.


Is this true? I haven't spent enough time in a German's company to test it.

Yes, some of us think before they speak. Not me though.

I'll spare you too many examples, but most German swearwords have more phonetic power behind them than English ones, due to stronger consonants. The difference is not too great since many of German and English our swearwords come from the same Germanic roots. (cf. Scheiße to shit, Northern BE shite, North German Schiet or Schitt).

"Verdammt", in my ears, sounds much stronger than "damn", for three reasons:

a) both have an explosive "d", but the German word also has the fricative "f" sound at the beginning
b) the German "a" is a louder vowel than the "a" in damn
c) the strong "t" at the end puts an explosive phonetic effect, which "damn" with the soft "m" at the end does not achieve.

I'll spare you too many examples, but most German swearwords have more phonetic power behind them than English ones, due to stronger consonants. The difference is not too great since many of German and English our swearwords come from the same Germanic roots. (cf. Scheiße to shit, Northern BE shite, North German Schiet or Schitt).

"Verdammt", in my ears, sounds much stronger than "damn", for three reasons:

a) both have an explosive "d", but the German word also has the fricative "f" sound at the beginning
b) the German "a" is a louder vowel than the "a" in damn
c) the strong "t" at the end puts an explosive phonetic effect, which "damn" with the soft "m" at the end does not achieve.

My favorite was "Verdamnt nochmal"

I was told that Germans never stop and go 'errrr...' halfway through a sentence (unlike most English speakers) because they have to think of exactly what they're going to say before they say it (what with the verb going at the end and everything) or else it doesn't make sense.


Is this true? I haven't spent enough time in a German's company to test it.

God, no, not true at all.

Most infamous example: Boris Becker (ex tennis pro). Listening to him trying to talk: one of the most grating experiences imaginable.

Man, that was quite an effort! Very good point, too.



Well, there is an example involving a philosophical, moral concept that works just the other way round:

In German, both "happiness" and "luck" have only one equivalent: "Glück". That one has been bugging me for a while now. In this instance, at least, I think that German is actually a very poor language, if the best it can do is use the same word for winning 10 bucks in the lottery (or even catching the train at the last minute or something) as for describing real happiness (through love, children, whatever, take your pick).

Firstly, judging a language by only one missing word seems not very reliable and secondly you've been misinformed, obviously.
There are different words for happiness and luck. Glück is luck.
Happiness is "Fröhlichkeit", to be happy= fröhlich sein. So, using your example,
winning ten bucks is Glück and the feeling that you'll get out of it is happiness which is: Fröhlichkeit. In one sentence: I was so lucky today, I won 10 bucks in the lottery which made me happy = Ich hatte heute GLÜCK, ich habe 10 Dollar in der Lotterie gewonnen, das hat mich froh (resp. fröhlich) gemacht. or ... hat mich gefreut (gefreut from "freuen" = to be happy).
You see, also for this sentence there are different possibilities AND different words ... as it would be vice versa

I was told that Germans never stop and go 'errrr...' halfway through a sentence (unlike most English speakers) because they have to think of exactly what they're going to say before they say it (what with the verb going at the end and everything) or else it doesn't make sense.


Is this true? I haven't spent enough time in a German's company to test it.

Sure they do. We go "ääääh", "ääähm", "ämmm", "ömmm" all the time in the middle of sentences.
Boris Becker was famous for it, and his "äääh" after every second word used to make him easy prey of many a comedian for years.

EDIT: beaten again, by Whereyouthink... this time. Verdammt!

Isn't "schadenfreude" -- literally "damage-joy" -- simply a long way to say "to gloat?"

gloat

2 : to observe or think about something with triumphant and often malicious satisfaction, gratification, or delight <gloat over an enemy's misfortune>

Isn't "schadenfreude" -- literally "damage-joy" -- simply a long way to say "to gloat?"

gloat

2 : to observe or think about something with triumphant and often malicious satisfaction, gratification, or delight <gloat over an enemy's misfortune>

When I do it, people like Sdaerji say I'm a "great ass".

Sure they do. We go "ääääh", "ääähm", "ämmm", "ömmm" all the time in the middle of sentences.
Boris Becker was famous for it, and his "äääh" after every second word used to make him easy prey of many a comedian for years.

EDIT: beaten again, by Whereyouthink... this time. Verdammt!

'tschuldigung :)

French has a word for the soft part of the bread (mie du pain), which neither English nor German have. Both only have a word for the crust.
Doch! The inner part of the bread is called "die Krume".
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krume_%28Backware%29
(...)
There is an English word for the both of them: "Lightning Warfare" and "useless eaters". You can argue about how often they are used...but to be honest I don't think I have ever heard anyone use the phrase "unnütze Esser" before either...
They even go as fas as to just call it "the Blitz" or even "to blitz s.o.".
The other one is part of that unbearable nazi-vocabulary (just like "unwertes Leben" = life w/out value). Man, those fuckers really screwed up the German language for good!
Sadist, Sadistic, Sadism. English words meaning basically the same thing as Schadenfreude.
I'd like to differ, for the German language knows the same words and "Schadenfreude" is not as agressive or active as those. It's more the Simpsons' "Ha-ha!" than really wishing or causing someone harm.
I'm not sure whether that catches it..."shameful joy" denotes a joy that you should somehow be ashamed of, doesn't it?
Schadenfreude means something different.
But I found many times that you lose a lot of nuances, of little secondary meanings, of emotional appeal when you translate German into English. I always found it much easier the other way around.
Orwell was right with his "newspeak" idea - we often don't even realise all the other things that a word means to us.
I so totally second that!
what about german words, that don´t exist anymor?
Like "Sendeschluss" ...
Good example. One could only really use it now when a station goes off the air permanently which rarely happens...

thin# = schütter/dünn
slim = schlank/dünn
skinny = mager/dürr
svelte* = anmutig/schlank
scrawny* = dürr/schlank
haggard* = hager/abgemagert
lanky* = schlaksig/schmächtig
slight# = dünn
flimsy# = hauchdünn/dünn
emaciated* = abgemagert/ausgemergelt
twiggy = you gotta know Twiggy to know what that means

Could you translate each of them into a specific German word?
I could - but without a context that's not as easy, especially for those marked #). The ones marked *) I had to look up. But yes, it's possible. I just saw that you and others gave good definitions/translations after I went through the list...
The French have a term called "Esprit D'Escalier" (Spirit of the staircase).
It refers to all the clever things you think of that you could have said in a discussion but didn't when you're already on your way home.
Oh man, I have so much staircasespirit (Treppengeist :D) you wouldn't believe it!
Basically, it’s hard to compare languages, as any language has its own originalities. It’s exhausting and needless.(...)
While that might be true, it is so very important to be able to communicate those subtleties, for example when translating. The better then translation, the less confusion and reason for misunderstanding there is.
Welsh has got a lovely one: hiraeth. Some people translate it as "homesickness" but that lacks the full depth of meaning. Put poetically (and is there any other way in Welsh?) it could be "deep longing for the spirit of the far distant land of my fathers". Its kind of like a tugging at the soul.
Wow. Just wow! I know the feeling. Combination of Heimweh & Wehmut, but not as to the point I might add.
I doubt it - English has a larger vocabulary than practically every other language - it's the easiest to learn, the hardest to master.
Oh so true, my friend!
I was told that Germans never stop and go 'errrr...' halfway through a sentence (unlike most English speakers) because they have to think of exactly what they're going to say before they say it (what with the verb going at the end and everything) or else it doesn't make sense.
Is this true? I haven't spent enough time in a German's company to test it.
They don't go "err...", they go "äh..." or "ähm..:". But it's hard to switch in mid-sentence and still make some sense out of it, way harder that it is in English. Best examples are Boris Becker (who has improved a lot due to less nervousness) and Eduard Stoiber (who has the highest "Äh!"-rate I know).

And to end this mega-post I'd like to share a heart-felt "Verdammte Scheiße!" with everyone because when I started this reply the thread was on page one!!!

Sure they do. We go "ääääh", "ääähm", "ämmm", "ömmm" all the time in the middle of sentences.
Boris Becker was famous for it, and his "äääh" after every second word used to make him easy prey of many a comedian for years.

EDIT: beaten again, by Whereyouthink... this time. Verdammt!


Yes, well I was sceptical about the claim. Boris Becker seems to be the example of choice to disprove this, although I have only ever seen him speaking English on TV so I wasn't aware of it.

Firstly, judging a language by only one missing word seems not very reliable and secondly you've been misinformed, obviously.
There are different words for happiness and luck. Glück is luck.
Happiness is "Fröhlichkeit", to be happy= fröhlich sein. So, using your example,
winning ten bucks is Glück and the feeling that you'll get out of it is happiness which is: Fröhlichkeit. In one sentence: I was so lucky today, I won 10 bucks in the lottery which made me happy = Ich hatte heute GLÜCK, ich habe 10 Dollar in der Lotterie gewonnen, das hat mich froh (resp. fröhlich) gemacht. or ... hat mich gefreut (gefreut from "freuen" = to be happy).
You see, also for this sentence there are different possibilities AND different words ... as it would be vice versa

You might have noticed that I explicitly wrote "in this instance, at least", specifically to point out I was not judging a language by only one missing word. :) I'm German and god knows I've been bragging about "internationalized" words like Schadenfreude, Zeitgeist, Gemütlichkeit, Angst etc. often enough.

Now, as for the rest, you are both wrong and right.

You're right, because happiness can indeed be translated as Fröhlichkeit or Freude. Or rather, more to the point, Fröhlichkeit and Freude can be translated as happiness in English. And while this does prove your point from your long post upthread, that there are many equivalents of words in each language, the kind of happiness that's meant here is not the one I was talking about.

"Being happy" as in "fröhlich sein" is a synonym for being upbeat, being merry, being in a good mood.

That in itself is not the same as "being happy" as in "sich freuen", where it is a synonym for "being glad".

That again is not the same as what I was talking about, namely "being happy" as in "glücklich sein".
"Glück" (when it isn't used in the sense of mere "luck") refers to something much deeper/bigger/more important (I'm at a lack for words here - how fitting, heh) than being upbeat or being glad.

It's what you're talking about when you ask someone if they have ever been truly been happy in their lives. Or, I don't know, when you wish a newly-wed couple "much love and happiness" in their lives. In German, that would be "viel Liebe und Glück", and while it'd be obvious to everyone that you mean happiness, not luck (that'd be a bit tactless at a wedding, eh?), fact is, it's still the same word.

Isn't "schadenfreude" -- literally "damage-joy" -- simply a long way to say "to gloat?"

gloat

2 : to observe or think about something with triumphant and often malicious satisfaction, gratification, or delight <gloat over an enemy's misfortune>

Maybe it's just the fact that "Schadenfreude" puts the gloating into such a nice and handy noun (nobody ever uses the verb, "schadenfroh"*, in an English text) and makes you sound educated at the same time. ;)


* or did the Rechtschreibreform (there's a nice German word for you!) torture this into "schaden froh", too? Gah.

I've heard that the Eskimos have over 100 words for what a great guy I am.

You might have noticed that I explicitly wrote "in this instance, at least", specifically to point out I was not judging a language by only one missing word. :) (...).
Errr ... to be honest - no! I didn't notice that! :cool:
I was just noticing that you wrote about "a very poor language" . Anyway ....

As stated before, for me it seems impossible and unnecessary to compare languages on a mine-is-better-level. I mean who is applying the standards?
At least, a native speaker of any language should be able to say anything.
Maybe he or she needs different words or more of them, but these are the peculiarities of every language which does not make it stupid or worse.
For me the French language e.g. is illogical in almost any case. Only the spelling is enough to make me mad.I mean, do they have a contract with an ink producing corporate group? Writing one hundred letters but accentuating only thirty is ... well ... French!
BUT there's a background and there are reasons for it. On the other hand can you point out only ONE language that is pronounced as written?
Don't say German, please :)

Well, in Germany, taking pleasure in someone else's pain is a common and accepted practice, so it makes sense that there is word for it. I mean, woops, sorry. I was joking.

You appear to have stolen my thread. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=456553)

Well, in Germany, taking pleasure in someone else's pain is a common and accepted practice, so it makes sense that there is word for it. I mean, woops, sorry. I was joking.

Nah, that's the Japanese. Ever seen Japanese TV? ;)

Schadenfreude and Zeitgeist are now words in English. Look them up in English dictionaries.

I personally think that German is a bit too guttural, regardless of how many words it has.

"To God I speak Spanish, to women Italian, to men French, and to my horse - German."

:)

Well, in Germany, taking pleasure in someone else's pain is a common and accepted practice, so it makes sense that there is word for it. I mean, woops, sorry. I was joking.

Well the US and Britain certainly do exactly the same thing ;)

In fact I'd wager that most cultures do this.

And while this does prove your point from your long post upthread
upthread - now there's a good addition to the English language.

You appear to have stolen my thread. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=456553)
Not really - the threads are on different (but related) subjects. Specifically, your thread is on 'funny foreign words', whereas this thread is on untranslatable words.

Complex language doubleplusungood.

upthread - now there's a good addition to the English language.

:eek: Holy shit, upthread isn't a real word? I could have sworn I didn't make that up.

Holy shit, upthread isn't a real word? I could have sworn I didn't make that up.
It depends on how you define 'real word' - it's in the Jargon File, but it has to date escaped the attentions of the Oxford English Dictionary and Offical Scrabble Words. It's a good word though.

Welsh has got a lovely one: hiraeth. Some people translate it as "homesickness" but that lacks the full depth of meaning. Put poetically (and is there any other way in Welsh?) it could be "deep longing for the spirit of the far distant land of my fathers". Its kind of like a tugging at the soul.
This sounds a bit like the Portuguese word saudade, which Katherine Vaz defines as a 'yearning so intense for those who are missing, or for vanished times or places, that absence is the most profound presence in one's life'.

Sadist, Sadistic, Sadism. English words meaning basically the same thing as Schadenfreude.

Schadenfreude is better described by laughing about most of the scenes of "Americas funniest homevideos". People slipping on a bananapeel, a fat man tripping in a funny way and so on. Or enjoying the misery of the classic Laurel and Hardy.

I personally think that German is a bit too guttural, regardless of how many words it has.
:)
But that's what makes the language so nice to speak :eek:!!!

But that's what makes the language so nice to speak !!!

Sure, if you enjoy barking like a dog :D

j/k

I just don't like the harsh sound of it. I much prefer English (national pride XD) and French. Flowing river, not toilet flush.

German sticks words together to make new words (our German teacher at school used to delight in teaching us words with dozens of letters), whereas we just have to stick with using adjectives. So 'Schadenfreude' becomes 'shameful joy'. Note than the English equivalent has one fewer syllable (and fewer letters) - so English is more efficient here, as spaces are just a convenience used when writing a language.

Schadenfreude is joy in another's misery, though not (sexual) pleasure. It's the feeling you get when that arrogant guy at the office who you really hate makes a complete ass out of himself in public. As someone else said: "Damage-joy," literally. I believe English speakers say "malice" and mean something very similar.

Schadenfreude is joy in another's misery. As someone else said: "Damage-joy," literally. I believe English speakers say "malice" and mean something very similar.

There are a variety of similar words (though no exact ones that would translate the meaning properly, hence it being imported).

Spite is a possibility

Hmm... Russian has a few... but the only one I can think of right now is this one:

dostoprimechatelnost

which means "sight-seeing place."

In the other direction, I know Russian doesn't really have a word for "excited." :)

I personally think that German is a bit too guttural, regardless of how many words it has.

Same here, and I don't like how the word for "little girl" is in the neuter gender, either.

Same here, and I don't like how the word for "little girl" is in the neuter gender, either.

The english word "baby" is effectively in a neuter or inanimate 'gender.'

The german word for "siblings" is geschwister, which is a pluralization of 'sister.'

Most languages pluralize 'brother.'

Plus "virgin" is "Jungfrau". I mean, what's a male virgin? (I believe Hebrew has a similar problem)

Isn't it strange that some languages have words for concepts that other languages don't?

Why is it that German has the word "Schadenfreude" (meaning to take delight in another person's misfortune) and English does not? Does French, or Swahili have such a word?

What about "Zeitgeist" - another German word that seems to have no clear equivalent in English. (By the way, it means literally "the spirit of the times", ie the things currently en vogue* culturally etc.)

Is it simply that English is such a poor language as far as vocabulary is concerned, or is there some real reason for why German should have these words and English should not.

Do you know of any other such words?

*hehe...see what I did there? ;)


Doesn't that have something to do with the fact that in German it's accepted practice to create neoligisms by simply sticking existing words together to make new ones the way in English it's done by sticking Latin or Greek words together. For example, if we had the same practice in English it wouldn't be called neoligism it would be called
creatingnewwordsbystickingoldwordstogethertomakenewonesthatexpresswhatyouwanttosaybutthereisnosuchwo rdsoyoudothisratherthanexpressyourselfinmorethanonewordtoclarifyyourmeaning. Which, frankly, though simple enough to spell, would be a bitch in the spelling bee.

Hmm... Russian has a few... but the only one I can think of right now is this one:

dostoprimechatelnost

which means "sight-seeing place."
Russian has the expression 'yolki-palki' which is similar to the American phrase 'Holy cow!' in usage (although it literally translates as 'fir trees and sticks').

Isn't it strange that some languages have words for concepts that other languages don't?

Why is it that German has the word "Schadenfreude" (meaning to take delight in another person's misfortune) and English does not? Does French, or Swahili have such a word?

...
In Russian, злорадствование (zloradstvovanie) is quite close to that.

French has a word for the soft part of the bread (mie du pain), which neither English nor German have. Both only have a word for the crust.

Russian has, and a single word, not three! Мякиш (myakish).

...

In the other direction, I know Russian doesn't really have a word for "excited." :)
Возбуждённый (vozbuzhdyonny), взволнованный (vzvolnovanny)?

Plus "virgin" is "Jungfrau". I mean, what's a male virgin? (I believe Hebrew has a similar problem)


I imagine both languages have a word for "failure" :D

Why is it that German has the word "Schadenfreude" (meaning to take delight in another person's misfortune) and English does not? Does French, or Swahili have such a word?

What about "Zeitgeist" - another German word that seems to have no clear equivalent in English. (By the way, it means literally "the spirit of the times", ie the things currently en vogue culturally etc.)
Yeah, these are words...
How is "Zeitgeist" (zeit+geist) different from "the spirit of the times" (the+spirit+of+the+times)? Would "Timespirit" or "Agespirit" be words as opposite to constructions?
I'm sure any language (including yours) would have better examples, as stem-, root- or whatever-words. Otherwise, there's no difference.

EDIT: I think that Zeitgeist was also passed into English as such, and I'm sure I've seen Schadenfreude in some pretentious works (English, Romanian, and French). But "pretentious" and "cosmopolitan" are the key concepts here.

Hmm, well I'm working on creating a language based on Leftism. The word for "capitalist" will have negative connotations and there will be frozen figures of speech refering to Marx and Kropotkin.

Why is it that German has the word "Schadenfreude" (meaning to take delight in another person's misfortune) and English does not? Does French, or Swahili have such a word?

Dunno if anyone's brought this up or not, but we do ... we have two words: Sadist and Asshole. Both would work.

How is "Zeitgeist" (zeit+geist) different from "the spirit of the times" (the+spirit+of+the+times)? Would "Timespirit" or "Agespirit" be words as opposite to constructions?
To be honest, I'm not sure what the difference would be.

Since, as we already established on page 3 or 4, as a non-native speaker I'm likely to miss nuances and secondary meanings and associations of words, I assumed that if the English decided to adopt these words, there would be no 1:1 equivalent in their language.

But maybe it really is just pretentiousness.

Or maybe...
What concerns "Schadenfreude": from hundreds of thousands of German words, it is "Schadenfreude" that makes it into English. I'm not so sure whether this says more about the importer than the source.

Or maybe...
Hehe. I like the concept for a joke, but, to be honest, it's not just this word for sure: Zeitgeist, Weltanschauung, Hinterland, Mitteleuropa, Poltergeist, Kindergarten, Wehrmacht, Doberman Pinscher, Fest, Kitsch, über, Rottweiler, Gesundheit etc.

All of this is because German is the better language. Deal with it.

Those words were probably artificial, like megabyte. They didn't occur naturally.

All of this is because German is the better language. Deal with it.
Hey, I did not say that I did not approve of it, my friend. You did not look into what the line of discussion was.
I'm not even a native Anglophone. I speak a language that gave English no word other than, perhaps, "Securitate" (for a "psycotic, but also opportunistic, secret service").

Those words were probably artificial, like megabyte. They didn't occur naturally.
That is my point about most neologisms. What was yours?

Hey, I did not say that I did not approve of it, my friend. You did not look into what the line of discussion was.
I'm not even a native Anglophone. I speak a language that gave English no word other than, perhaps, "Securitate" (for a "psycotic, but also opportunistic, secret service").

Haha, actually, I haven't read any part of this discussion. I was just responding to the original post.

Hehe. I like the concept for a joke, but, to be honest, it's not just this word for sure: Zeitgeist, Weltanschauung, Hinterland, Mitteleuropa, Poltergeist, Kindergarten, Wehrmacht, Doberman Pinscher, Fest, Kitsch, über, Rottweiler, Gesundheit etc.

They use "Mitteleuropa" in English? Doesn't excatly roll of the tongue now, does it?

And of course the Doberman Pinscher is only called Doberman Pinscher in English - in German it's just Dobermann.
Pinscher is really only used in "Rehpinscher", which are ridiculously tiny little dogs. Never understood how "Dobermann" and "Pinscher" ended up together in English. It's not like they'd even be able to mate :eek: ...

ETA: Oh wait, maybe they would. (http://the-dominion.de/Kamelfrosch/bilder/Rehpinscher.jpg)

Dunno if anyone's brought this up or not, but we do ... we have two words: Sadist and Asshole. Both would work.

Not really, because from my understanding, schadenfreude doesn't always imply that the other person can't see humour in the situation either.

They use "Mitteleuropa" in English? Doesn't excatly roll of the tongue now, does it?
I think I already posted to death my oppinion that neologisms are usually artificial, not reflecting a real nuance that cannot be expressed otherwise, and used in pretentious, local or specific contexts (of course, depending on the word).
"Mitteleuropa" is used, and it is used precisely because it doesn't roll on the tongue. That is what academia is all about.

And of course the Doberman Pinscher is only called Doberman Pinscher in English - in German it's just Dobermann.
Pinscher is really only used in "Rehpinscher", which are ridiculously tiny little dogs. Never understood how "Dobermann" and "Pinscher" ended up together in English. It's not like they'd even be able to mate :eek: ...
They are both German words, aren't they? What the Anglophones did to or with them is another matter. Which only goes to prove my point: it is not necessity, it is pretense and sometimes plain misuse.

The english word "baby" is effectively in a neuter or inanimate 'gender.'
The german word for "siblings" is geschwister, which is a pluralization of 'sister.'
Most languages pluralize 'brother.'
baby = das Kleinkind (n. sg.)
child = das Kind (n. sg.)

siblings = die Geschwister (m/f pl.)
sister = die Schwester (f. sg.)
sisters = die Schwestern (f. pl.)

brother = der Bruder (m. sg.)
brothers = die Brüder (m. pl.)

Plus "virgin" is "Jungfrau". I mean, what's a male virgin? (I believe Hebrew has a similar problem)
male virgin = die männliche Jungfrau (m. sg.)

I like me language :D

Dunno if anyone's brought this up or not, but we do ... we have two words: Sadist and Asshole. Both would work.


Has been brought up, and is incorrect.

German is an uglier language when spoken, but in german, I find it easier to express my ideas and emotions because all you have to do is stick a bunch of words together and it's usually close to correct.

i.e. "mein liebe" my love. Sounds ugly, but is a more precise word.

Some workds are more usuable in a variety of situations. For example, "tiel" (correct me if I'm wrong here!) means "piece", but can be used in many that the english equivilant (spelling?) cannot be used. It can refer to a piece of flesh, for example, but you don't need to say "flesh" necessarily.

Gotta love the German..

"Ich bien deutsch" (yeah I know, not quite gramatically correct... but I've only been studying for a few months... and most of it's words like "zwitter", for those of you who know what that means...)

German is an uglier language when spoken, but in german, I find it easier to express my ideas and emotions because all you have to do is stick a bunch of words together and it's usually close to correct.

i.e. "mein liebe" my love. Sounds ugly, but is a more precise word.

Some workds are more usuable in a variety of situations. For example, "tiel" (correct me if I'm wrong here!) means "piece", but can be used in many that the english equivilant (spelling?) cannot be used. It can refer to a piece of flesh, for example, but you don't need to say "flesh" necessarily.

Gotta love the German..

"Ich bien deutsch" (yeah I know, not quite gramatically correct... but I've only been studying for a few months... and most of it's words like "zwitter", for those of you who know what that means...)

Some workds are more usuable in a variety of situations. For example, "tiel" (correct me if I'm wrong here!) means "piece", but can be used in many that the english equivilant (spelling?) cannot be used. It can refer to a piece of flesh, for example, but you don't need to say "flesh" necessarily.
It would be "Teil" (= Part, Piece)...but I don't think I ever heard it used to describe a piece of flesh.
I guess you listen to Rammstein without actually getting it? :p

What about the German word "doch"? It has multiple uses and multiple meanings in German, but has no direct translation into English.

Does German have a word for pseudoantidisestablishmentarianism?

Oh, I have a great one for you.
Can you believe that there is no Romanian word for "already"? We use the French "deja", but that cannot be more than 150 years old.
I kept wondering what the hell people used before that, and the only thing I came up with is this (now) dialectical thing that can be reconstructed to have meant, literally, "put this on a/your foot" ("încaltea"), a sort of "remember to mention that this had already happened", "hold it someplace" etc.
Weird.

Does German have a word for pseudoantidisestablishmentarianism?
Pseudoantidisestablishmentarianismus.
It's an English word for an English institution...we just change the last syllable.
And "Pseudo" (Greek, is it?) is the same in both languages, as well as "Anti".

Pseudoantidisestablishmentarianismus.
It's an English word for an English institution...we just change the last syllable.
And "Pseudo" (Greek, is it?) is the same in both languages, as well as "Anti".

Well, it's really false opposition to separation of church and state, not specifically for an english institution per se, though its origin is certainly to do with the C of E.

But basically German does the same thing that English does, when German speakers come across a word for a concept that they don't have, they co-opt it. The only difference being, apparently, that there is a greater tendency to "Germanize" it. I am sure there are countless examples either way. Doesn't mean anything.

I imagine both languages have a word for "failure" :D

Funny thing about that:

durchfallen - to fail (an exam)
Durchfall - diarrhoea

Funny thing about that:

durchfallen - to fail (an exam)
Durchfall - diarrhoea

Hey, I told you that! :mad:


j/k ;) But I just clicked here and did a virtual double take, all "WTF? Didn't I just tell him that, like, yesterday?!" Heh.

Hey, I already knew that! And I'm telling you, this guy stole my thread!

Isn't "schadenfreude" -- literally "damage-joy" -- simply a long way to say "to gloat?"

gloat

2 : to observe or think about something with triumphant and often malicious satisfaction, gratification, or delight <gloat over an enemy's misfortune>

Nearly but not exactly. This definition is simply to big for this little word.
It sounds too much shakespaerian.

There's no English word for Blitzkreig either.Well, "Blitzkrieg" you mean. Actually there is: Blitzkrieg.
Though "blitzkrieg" is a German word (literally "lightning war", meaning "a war as fast as a lightning"), the word did not originate from within the German military. It was first used by a journalist in the American newsmagazine TIME describing the 1939 German invasion of Poland.Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blitzkrieg#Etymology_and_modern_meaning)

Hey, I already knew that! And I'm telling you, this guy stole my thread!
But this thread was about untranslatable words, not 'funny foriegn words'. As you decided to introduce something from your thread, you can hardly blame the originator of this thread.

All of this is because German is the better language. Deal with it.

I find it to be incredibly ugly, to be blunt.

I find it to be incredibly ugly, to be blunt.
I don't like the sound of the spoken langauge, but German does have an elegance in its structure. I'm not sure whether this a good thing - I make a distinction between elegance (which usually applies to technology) and beauty (which usually applies to art, and the works of nature), and a think a general purpose language (as opposed to a technical language) should be more like an art than a technology.

Well, "Blitzkrieg" you mean. Actually there is: Blitzkrieg.
Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blitzkrieg#Etymology_and_modern_meaning)

The technical term in English is "Operational Maneuver Warfare"

Also remember the German language as a whole was only really invented artificially in the mid 1830s. Before that there were just hundreds of regional dialects, but with the coming of the Second Reich, the need for a common (not similar sounding but different dialects and grammar rules) language was needed, so they borrowed a bit from all regions and made Middle High German (Modern German).
This explains the elegance of the written and grammatical German. Although some find the spoken language strange due to it being spoken gutturally, unlike English.
Also Germany is without doubt one of the most fascinating countries, a riddle. It invented Nazism, but also Communism (Marx and Engels)
It is was considered the home of the Poets and Thinkers, it had Goethe, Schiller, Heine. But also Nietzsche and other great thinkers. Einstein was a German (spent more then half his life in Germany, and still living in the US spoke German better then any other language). It also has many different cultures in one, the Bavarians (Lederhosen, Oktoberfest) , the Schwaben, Nord Friesen (the ones that bred the modern Cow, and where those funny striped industrial hats). Also Bach, Wagner, Von Beethoven, etc..


It somehow makes sense that the German language is more complex and elegant then the English. Don't get me started on grammar rules :eek: