NationStates Jolt Archive

Meh...

I think that most of the Catholics on this forum don't or at least don't fully agree with the Vatican's stance on many issues ranging from women's rights to homosexuality to contraception to anal sex (yes, you heard me).

Hense we get what some call the "Alienated Catholic", a confused individual who most of the time runs around screaming and begging the old farts in Rome to wise up and get with the times...At least I do.

So, my question to you...Who here can self-identify as an "Alienated Catholic"?

Together we can rise up, and in the finest tradition of our friend Jon Stewart, we can take to the streets and yell "BE REASONABLE!".

*Raises his hand*

A question for people in this thread in general:

If you don't agree with the Church's theology, why consider yourself Catholic? Why not be Anglican or Episcopaleon or something? What's keeping you calling yourself Catholic?

I'm not trying to order heretics from the temple or anything by this, mind you. I'm just curious.

I consider myself a Marian Agnostic. I draw a lot of my spiritual beliefs from Catholic teachings, but mainly the archaic idealogical ones...not the official and political ones.

If the Catholic Church were not so politically against everything I believe, I would seriouly consider conversion. I love the tradition, ritual, and gothic cathederals.

If the Catholic Church were not so politically against everything I believe, I would seriouly consider conversion. I love the tradition, ritual, and gothic cathederals.

*sigh*

Hence the problem...I love Catholic tradition. And I'm certain it's got some good in it. Many Catholics helped in the Civil Rights movement, and I'm very proud of the life of peace that John Paul II lead.

That's why the idea of conversion just leaves a kind of bad taste.

I'm not Catholic...

I'm not Alienated...

But I do like pie.

Right here.

*waves arm about*

*waves hesitantly*

I disagree with almost everything, but I was baptised and went to twelve years worth of catholic school, so....

I'm not Catholic...

I'm not Alienated...

But I do like pie.

Ah...The things that matter most in life...

A question for people in this thread in general:

If you don't agree with the Church's theology, why consider yourself Catholic? Why not be Anglican or Episcopaleon or something? What's keeping you calling yourself Catholic?


Because of my old Irish Catholic Priest and the fellow that runs the local Basillica. Both decent guys. Especially my old Priest. They didn't have the talk of exclusion and seperation that the Panzer Pope speaks off.

The Bishop was horrified by the pedophile scandle and apologised for it even though there were no recorded cases here.

My Priest had passed luckily. This would have devistated him as he was a gentle soul loved by the school he ran for years.

Just because the organization is temporily tainted doesn't call for conversion.

As I have stated. If the Vatican apologised; I would return.

Ah...The things that matter most in life...

Indeed, friend.

Indeed.

Together we can rise up, and in the finest tradition of our friend Jon Stewart, we can take to the streets and yell "BE REASONABLE!".
I think more people then just alienated catholics need to say this.

I think more people then just alienated catholics need to say this.

Aye...

Tis time to rise up and take back power from the stupid.

Aye...

Tis time to rise up and take back power from the stupid.

Or we could you know just improve education, eliminate poverty, and such by voting in better leaders. But whatever works for you. :rolleyes:

While I understand where you're coming from on this, and do agree that many of those criteria apply to me, I don't consider myself in any way "alienated". Not because I believe that the Church will, in the near future, conform to my stance on such matters.....but because my viewpoint is a popularly held viewpoint in my area.

If you don't agree with the Church's theology, why consider yourself Catholic? Why not be Anglican or Episcopaleon or something? What's keeping you calling yourself Catholic?
Just because you disagree with one or two of the Church's stances doesn't mean you should completely distance yourself from the Church. I disagree with the way the public school districts in my metro area go about teaching the British Literary courses, as well as they organisation of the music programs....should I contend that my family and friends not be affiliated with the school system, on the basis of a very few disagreements on the whole?

*raises hand

One here.
I was raised catholic, but in a way that always allowed for criticism and independent thought. I went to a catholic school, where nuns were openly running against doctrines like clerical celibacy and for reforms like priesthood for women. I always experienced tolerance, I was in a catholic youth group at school that considered it important to teach young girls about contraception and provided a forum for questions and discussion. "Abstinence" was never ever preached nor particularly encouraged, the message was "be serious and responsible about what you do". Two girls in the group outed themselves as Lesbians, and it was more than accepted.

When I grew up and out of this circle, though, I found that the reality of the official catholic church was far less open and tolerant and far more oppressive, exclusive and judgemental. That slowly turned me away from the church, I could no longer identify with people who preached such intolerance and inhumanity.
For a while, I tried to change things on a small level, but I soon gave that up, too.

*raises hand

One here.
I was raised catholic, but in a way that always allowed for criticism and independent thought. I went to a catholic school, where nuns were openly running against doctrines like clerical celibacy and for reforms like priesthood for women. I always experienced tolerance, I was in a catholic youth group at school that considered it important to teach young girls about contraception and provided a forum for questions and discussion. "Abstinence" was never ever preached nor particularly encouraged, the message was "be serious and responsible about what you do". Two girls in the group outed themselves as Lesbians, and it was more than accepted.

When I grew up and out of this circle, though, I found that the reality of the official catholic church was far less open and tolerant and far more oppressive, exclusive and judgemental. That slowly turned me away from the church, I could no longer identify with people who preached such intolerance and inhumanity.
For a while, I tried to change things on a small level, but I soon gave that up, too.
At first I was excited about your experience. But then a question came to mind, were you educated in the 80s when the Church was full of the promises of Pope JPI and Pius for reforms?

In calling yourself a Catholic, alienated or otherwise, are you affirming your belief in Catholic doctrine, e.g., belief in Jesus Christ as God and Saviour? If not, why do you persist in calling classifying yourself as a Christian? If so, I have no other question except to ask if your objections are issue-centred or Christ-centred. That only you know.

At first I was excited about your experience. But then a question came to mind, were you educated in the 80s when the Church was full of the promises of Pope JPI and Pius for reforms?

In the 80s and 90s. And yes, the influence of the Second Council (not quite sure about the official English name here) were very clear. A lot of our teachers had taken active part in it and were still engaged in reforms wherever they could.

In calling yourself a Catholic, alienated or otherwise, are you affirming your belief in Catholic doctrine, e.g., belief in Jesus Christ as God and Saviour? If not, why do you persist in calling classifying yourself as a Christian? If so, I have no other question except to ask if your objections are issue-centred or Christ-centred. That only you know.
So are you implying that if one no longer believes CATHOLIC doctrine, they're not longer CHRISTIAN? You know, much as some would like to believe otherwise, there's more to Christianity than simply Catholicism. And once again, I bring to the table my previous point:

Just because you disagree with one or two of the Church's stances doesn't mean you should completely distance yourself from the Church. I disagree with the way the public school districts in my metro area go about teaching the British Literary courses, as well as they organisation of the music programs....should I contend that my family and friends not be affiliated with the school system, on the basis of a very few disagreements on the whole?
There's more to it than a bunch of Catholics who feel differently than the Church. If you believe hands-down against the Church in all walks of life, then yes, I don't see the poitn of calling yourself a Catholic any longer. But it seems to me that many of these 'Alienated' Catholics only disagree on some issues....which makes your point pretty much fruitless.

I'm sorry, could you speak up please? Hard to hear you over all your nonsense.

*waves hesitantly*

I disagree with almost everything, but I was baptised and went to twelve years worth of catholic school, so....
I went to 8 years ... still managed to end up atheist/agnostic :p

I suppose I shall drop in.

I consider myself something of a 'catholic atheist,' since I was raised as a catholic, and believe in the ideas of confession and contrition and enjoy a beautiful mass held in a magnificent cathedral.

However, I am an atheist, so much like christmas, I am attracted only to the secular elements of catholicism.

In the 80s and 90s. And yes, the influence of the Second Council (not quite sure about the official English name here) were very clear. A lot of our teachers had taken active part in it and were still engaged in reforms wherever they could.
Same ... but when I had to deal with the church beyond the school/local level into the diocese at large (about my molestation) they were much more closed and intollorant of what happened ... it was a real downer being told I was going to hell for telling my parents what happened to me

Meh...

I think that most of the Catholics on this forum don't or at least don't fully agree with the Vatican's stance on many issues ranging from women's rights to homosexuality to contraception to anal sex (yes, you heard me).

Hense we get what some call the "Alienated Catholic", a confused individual who most of the time runs around screaming and begging the old farts in Rome to wise up and get with the times...At least I do.

So, my question to you...Who here can self-identify as an "Alienated Catholic"?

Together we can rise up, and in the finest tradition of our friend Jon Stewart, we can take to the streets and yell "BE REASONABLE!".

*raises hand* I used to be catholic. I don't consider myself catholic anymore. To say I was alienated by outdated and questionable religious dogma would be putting it mildly.

*raises hand* I used to be catholic. I don't consider myself catholic anymore. To say I was alienated by outdated and questionable religious dogma would be putting it mildly.

I thought you were just a goofball. ;)

I've gone beyond "alienated Catholic" and taken the plunge to "former Catholic". The problem I have, though, is figuring out where to go from here. At the moment, I have no true spiritual home.

I've been attending my wife's Unitarian church, and while it does do a lot of things right that the Catholic Church does wrong, it also throws out a lot of what I think the Catholic Church does right. It's a place to be for now, but I don't think Unitarianism is my long-term spiritual home. Maybe if I could find a place that combines the best of both, I'd be happy there. But for now, I don't know where that place is.

I suppose I could create it myself. But I'm not sure I have it in me to start a whole new religion. I have a hard time seeing myself as a prophet, or a guru, or a spiritual guide. I don't claim to know what's right, so how can I go preaching it to other people?

:(

I thought you were just a goofball. ;)

Becoming a Goofball is a complex process and involves the formation and integration of at least four levels of self-contradiction. For instance:

I'm a physicist that believes in Christ.
I'm an intelligent dumbass.
I'm an athletic geek.
I'm an immature parent.
I'm a passive activist.
I'm a violent pacifist.

If I'm just a goofball, then I think that's more than enough of an accomplishment. ;)

Meh...

I think that most of the Catholics on this forum don't or at least don't fully agree with the Vatican's stance on many issues ranging from women's rights to homosexuality to contraception to anal sex (yes, you heard me). Nope, agreement with the authorities here… anyway, anal sex is just yuerkk.

Hense we get what some call the "Alienated Catholic", a confused individual who most of the time runs around screaming and begging the old farts in Rome to wise up and get with the times...At least I do. I thought those were "progressive" ie cafeteria Catholics?

Together we can rise up, and in the finest tradition of our friend Jon Stewart, we can take to the streets and yell "BE REASONABLE!". I can visit the campuses of your regional universities and exhort people to return to the faith. You know, you always get people like that on campuses… except I will try to obey your friend's motto as much as possible.;)

In the 80s and 90s. And yes, the influence of the Second Council (not quite sure about the official English name here) were very clear. A lot of our teachers had taken active part in it and were still engaged in reforms wherever they could.
The Second Vatican Council, or Vatican II for short

*raises hand

One here.
I was raised catholic, but in a way that always allowed for criticism and independent thought. I went to a catholic school, where nuns were openly running against doctrines like clerical celibacy and for reforms like priesthood for women. I always experienced tolerance, I was in a catholic youth group at school that considered it important to teach young girls about contraception and provided a forum for questions and discussion. "Abstinence" was never ever preached nor particularly encouraged, the message was "be serious and responsible about what you do". Two girls in the group outed themselves as Lesbians, and it was more than accepted.

When I grew up and out of this circle, though, I found that the reality of the official catholic church was far less open and tolerant and far more oppressive, exclusive and judgemental. That slowly turned me away from the church, I could no longer identify with people who preached such intolerance and inhumanity.
For a while, I tried to change things on a small level, but I soon gave that up, too.

I was raised in a similarly liberal Catholic upbringing. I was told from the very begining that I had every right to choose the faith I was to follow, or not follow. My priests were very supportive and never judgemental. And I never felt anything but a feeling of peace in the Church. There were a few hard-liners, but I tried to put them out of my mind.

Same deal though...more I read into it, worse it got in my mind. What really turned me off was attempts by other Catholic Priests to influence voters in the 2004 Presidential Election by saying to the congregants that John Kerry was not a real Catholic because he believes in a woman's right to abortion.