NationStates Jolt Archive

If you look at the Crusades and compare them today they can be said to be similar, if you look at the influence of english they can be compared to the battle of hastings(even though there was french influx) if you look at problems that are surfacing today you can say the medieval ages can be looked back upon. I say there should be some type of revival of medieval literature, if you look at some like Song of Roland, Beowulf you can see how both of these worlds are in some type of situation where we are in war, and they both are in dire need of an hero, as we do now. It seems the age of man are waning, these books show us that humanity should band together, and truly fight for something that is indecent and unethical. I say revive Medieval literature!

:confused: When did it ever die? Unless you consider the advent of mass culture to be its ultimate successor. Or do you perhaps mean a revival of the High Medieval Ages per se?

history never repeats itself, it just plays endless variants on a few popular themes.

:confused: When did it ever die? Unless you consider the advent of mass culture to be its ultimate successor. Or do you perhaps mean a revival of the High Medieval Ages per se?

I believe the advent of mass culture.

Then I will agree with you. We need new epics, new classics. Even fantasy as a genre is becoming somewhat lacklustre. I cannot say I am too fond of mass culture.

Then I will agree with you. We need new epics, new classics. Even fantasy as a genre is becoming somewhat lacklustre. I cannot say I am too fond of mass culture.

Definitely Agree

It seems the age of man are waning, these books show us that humanity should band together, and truly fight for something that is indecent and unethical.

Hear! Hear! I'm all for fighting for something indecent and unethical as well!!

how can it be revived?

Well obviously (aspiring) writers should bury themselves in medieval literature and come up with new ideas of their own. This is what Tolkien did essentially, and lo and behold his chef d' oeuvres! I am one such aspiring writer. Hopefully by submerging myself in old world literature I will develop some unique takes on plot devices and so on myself. This is an ideal way of reviving the genre.

Additionally, most medieval masterpieces are qualified by their generality, their erudite content, so eclectic, yet universal in a way that it can touch anyone's heart. If any new such masterpieces are to be created, one must seek to produce work of this quality.

If you look at the Crusades and compare them today they can be said to be similar, if you look at the influence of english they can be compared to the battle of hastings(even though there was french influx) if you look at problems that are surfacing today you can say the medieval ages can be looked back upon. I say there should be some type of revival of medieval literature, if you look at some like Song of Roland, Beowulf you can see how both of these worlds are in some type of situation where we are in war, and they both are in dire need of an hero, as we do now. It seems the age of man are waning, these books show us that humanity should band together, and truly fight for something that is indecent and unethical. I say revive Medieval literature!

Because glorifying war heroes isn't "in" anymore. Now it's all about observations of the the cloud formation you saw on the beach in 1978 and how it's a metaphor for life. And Speaking Truth to Power, whatever that means.

That is due mainly to the inability of modern writers to evoke ideas of mythical proportions, or rather, I daresay, a reluctance.

Mass culture does indeed kill higher creativity. Sad. Yet, the purpose of higher literature is to reach out to a more sophisticated crowd, not the entire mass, people who can appreciate its merit. True works of art are often less markettable. Even the language in which modern works are written is dumbed down. Formal english is considered redundant, let alone medieval english.

Well obviously (aspiring) writers should bury themselves in medieval literature and come up with new ideas of their own. This is what Tolkien did essentially, and lo and behold his chef d' oeuvres! I am one such aspiring writer. Hopefully by submerging myself in old world literature I will develop some unique takes on plot devices and so on myself. This is an ideal way of reviving the genre.

Additionally, most medieval masterpieces are qualified by their generality, their erudite content, so eclectic, yet universal in a way that it can touch anyone's heart. If any new such masterpieces are to be created, one must seek to produce work of this quality.

I look forward to your writings.

And I look forward to readers such as yourself :) Lets just hope my talent is sufficient to carry me through now.

That is due mainly to the inability of modern writers to evoke ideas of mythical proportions, or rather, I daresay, a reluctance.

Mass culture does indeed kill higher creativity. Sad. Yet, the purpose of higher literature is to reach out to a more sophisticated crowd, not the entire mass, people who can appreciate its merit. True works of art are often less markettable. Even the language in which modern works are written is dumbed down. Formal english is considered redundant, let alone medieval english.

Art for the masses is like food for the masses. In order to be consumed by everyone it has to be bland enough to be tolerated by anyone, which means it appeals to no one.

A very valid statement. Yet, it is still consumed nonetheless. One should wonder if it can even be considered art at this point (art including all the arts, ie art itself, writing, poetry, dramaturgy, cinema, music, fashion, photography and so on).

If you look at the Crusades and compare them today they can be said to be similar, if you look at the influence of english they can be compared to the battle of hastings(even though there was french influx) if you look at problems that are surfacing today you can say the medieval ages can be looked back upon. I say there should be some type of revival of medieval literature...

I, personally, say that there should be some sort of revival of basic grammar. It appears to have died during your first sentence.

Then I will agree with you. We need new epics, new classics. Even fantasy as a genre is becoming somewhat lacklustre. I cannot say I am too fond of mass culture.

I'd agree with ya...but what do we have to work with?

Harry Potter? BLEH! :headbang:

Heh, I will endeavour to keep the quality of anything I write as high as possible. I hope that other writers will be similarly committed. Then perhaps we could return to the creation of High Art.

Heh, I will endeavour to keep the quality of anything I write as high as possible. I hope that other writers will be similarly committed. Then perhaps we could return to the creation of High Art.

That may be difficult. I'm currently working on a story myself. Hopefully shmucks like you and I can reverse this cursed trend.

It will be difficult, because when companies hear the word publish, they think in terms of cash. High Art does not yield much cash. Therefore, any investment they make is not worthwhile to them. The curse of capitalism. :rolleyes: Thus, you'd have to publish a string of lesser products (or one highly exceptional one) before actually being able to write what you truly want.

1. Clerical

a. liturgical and paraliturgical hymns: evolution and essence: Oriental heritage, hymns, sequences, new sequences, Franciscan poetry.

b. goliardic poetry

2. Courtly

- differentia specifica: courtly love, the "grand chant courtois": the Provencal canso and its way in French, German, Galego-Portuguese, Italian, Catalan and French developments.

3. Between clerical and courtly

- moralizing and political poetry, goliardic examples, Provenal sirventes, Spruchdichtung, cantigas del escaruho e mallizes, etc.; Vernacular poetry of a Goliardic type. Courtly, but not chivalric poetry from Early to Late Middle Ages, panegyric

4. Popular genres

- women's songs, carols, vivelais, the Arab theory, khardjas and Galego-Portuguese comtigas de amigo, the role of repetition and refrain.

The epic genres

Early medieval traces

Popular poetry: the chanson de geste, debates about the epic origins, philosophical presuppositions from the 18th century. An epic chivalric but not courtly. The saga-literature. Historic poetry.

Courtly epic poetry

The courtly romance, properly called roman courtois: from France to Germany etc. The ulterior developments of chivalric narrative: from verse to prose. Antic subjects matiére de France vs. matiére de Bretagne, later realistic vs. fantastic chivalric novel.

Short epic forms

a. short chivalric romance, from Marie de France to Konrad von Würzburg

b. the fabliaux

c. from the exempla to the novella, the short story

That's what medieval literature is about

Ah yes, the epics. Often the highest form of fantasy, and the best adaptation of mythology and history. One could even count the LOTR as part of this heritage, as Tolkien is highly avant-garde in his approach to literature.

I consider Lord of The Rings a full-british mythology for britain doesn't have a full length mythology, except welsh and celtic.

It draws so heavily on other mythologies though I am not sure I can agree here.

It reminds me a bit more of Shakespearian works, which draw heavily on mythological inspirations. Even Homer's work, similar to Tolkien's, drew on mythology.

how can the revival of medieval literature be done then?

Through fresh approaches to writing and interpreting the classics. I won't reiterate what I have said before. Creativity and open-mindedness are the key elements.

LOTR Was apparently based off the same principal of the Finnish National Epic, the Kalevala. Read it and you would see the similarities.

LOTR Was apparently based off the same principal of the Finnish National Epic, the Kalevala. Read it and you would see the similarities.

Silmarillion was based of Kalevala more. Lord of The Rings was based more of Beowulf.

Indeed. Thus one cannot say it is a mythology in and of itself.

Silmarillion was based of Kalevala more. Lord of The Rings was based more of Beowulf.

I havent had the pleasure of reading the Silmarillion yet. xD I think I shall now that you have mentioned it.

It is a literary masterpiece, a real gem and a pleasure to read :) Perhaps the truest expression of Tolkien's creative genius.

It is a literary masterpiece, a real gem and a pleasure to read :) Perhaps the truest expression of Tolkien's creative genius.

Meh, I could never get into it.
I need a story, an engaging plotline, and characters. Which, perhaps it had. I just couldn't get through enough of what felt like a history book to give it a fair chance.

I, personally, say that there should be some sort of revival of basic grammar. It appears to have died during your first sentence.
His grammar died along with any aspect of originality that was once engaged in such a dreary soul.

I have a better idea. Let's all carry swords and wear cloaks. A FULL medieval revival. That would be slightly less lame. :rolleyes:

His grammar died along with any aspect of originality that was once engaged in such a dreary soul.

I have a better idea. Let's all carry swords and wear cloaks. A FULL medieval revival. That would be slightly less lame. :rolleyes:

No a revival in medieval literature not roleplaying.

I suggest reading Arthurian literature.

The ethics of the Knights of the Round Table and the myth of the healing and revitalizing power of the Holy Grail resound today as clearly as they did back then.

The stories are about boy who are fatherless having to find their own way through life -- coming of age. The central Grail Knights -- Galahad and Percival/Parzival -- are young men elevated by their inner spirits to perform great deeds.

The stories are human and yet other-worldly.

I suggest we need new takes on the concept of the Round Table -- the brotherhood of arms following a noble.

In fact, the World War II epics "Saving Private Ryan" and "Band of Brothers" follows along this line: a brotherhood of soldiers committed to a higher purpose and a quest.

I founded a press dedicated to Arthurian literature a few years ago that failed in the wake of 9/11 -- moreso because my funding dried up utterly when the stock market failed rather than due to the business itself.

We never turned the corner, but we were headed in that direction.

The Arthurian legends are world-legends today. They originated in Europe, but King Arthur is known world-wide, especially in the US.

He is a pseudo-religious figure now, along with the pantheon of the Arthurian characters -- Merlin, Morgan le Fay, Guinevere and Lancelot, Percival and Galahad.

The problem is that there have only been mocking or miserable adaptions of the story for the screen. Excalibur and Camelot were the "best" that we got, and they were at best rough sketches and minimalizations of the epic.

One could argue that the Jedi Knights of Star Wars became this sort of modern legendary knighthood. However, though I was enamoured of the Star Wars series during my youth, I was Jar-jarred into disbelief by the poor quality scripts in the recent movies and never even went to see Episode III after I heard friends comment about its ludicrous and petulant plot.

In the original Star Wars, Darth Vader was the Ur-villain. In Episode II, he became the Ur-spoiled-brat and in Episode III, the Ur-rebel-without-a-clue.

You can see other traces of medieval culture in popular culture in science fiction and fantasy series.

If you are talking about actually reviving medieval chivalric customs and societies in real life, there are indeed people who are trying to achieve just that.

I also put forth that people are now "feudal servants" of their corporate lords. We wear their heraldry -- called logos -- to show our fealty and allegience -- and we serve on their fields of business in return for economic protection.

However, our corporations and our governments split the feudal world into different components. We no longer have one feudal overlord that provides all our services and requires all our service.

We split or fees between municipal, county, state and federal governments. We have multiple allegiences to each of those, as well as to our employer. We also have allegience to those corporations which we hold stock in, for we wish their value to increase and thusly look for them to improve in wealth and well-being.

Modern feudalism, chivalry and medievalism is not as outlandish as you might think. Especially when you study medieval government and how "modern" it seems in certain contexts.

If you are simply looking for a new epic, or for an old epic to gain ground again, I cannot more highly recommend the Arthurian legends.

Parzival is my favorite. A Grail romance that ends with joy, love, and success.

It's inverse is Galahad's tale, which you can find in Sir Thomas Malory's Le Morte D'Arthur or the more rarely-locatable French Vulgate and Post-Vulgate cycle.

I have also been dreaming of writing the epic of 1066 as a screenplay for years. What a story!

No a revival in medieval literature not roleplaying.

And recreating pseudo-medieval literature uninformed of the progress of almost a thousand years of literary history and development isn't just roleplaying?