NationStates Jolt Archive

Article 18 UN convention of human rights:
Everyone shall have the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion. This right shall include freedom to have or to adopt a religion or belief of his choice, and freedom, either individually or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in worship, observance, practice and teaching.

We, the people of the free world submit to the United Nations that the Saudi Arabian government are violating this freedom by officially outlawing public worship of non-Muslim religions. The following documents outline this problem in more detail: -

“Freedom of religion does not exist”
US State Department: Saudi Arabia International Religious Freedom Report 2004
Released by the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labour

“The public practise of any other religion is forbidden”
British Foreign and Commonwealth office country profile report of Saudi Arabia updated 25th August 2005

“The [Saudi Arabian] constitution proclaims Islam as the only permitted faith”
British Foreign and Commonwealth office human rights report 2005, chapter 8

We (the people signed in this petition) therefore submit to the United Nations that pressures must be put on the Saudi Arabian government in the form of non military action to encourage the legislation of full religious freedom.

http://new.petitiononline.com/SARF/petition.html

I would apriciate opinions on this as well as signatures on the site to help my cause

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights is not, contrary to popular belief, a document of universal and absolute authority. It is merely a guide for those governments who do want to protect their citizens' rights, clarifying what is and what is not any human's right.

Basically, it's not an "Everyone WILL practice religion freely." but more of an "If human rights are in your interests, you should let them practice religion freely."

Indeed, and its implementation is still subject to each nation's scrutiny. Interpretation is a matter for courts in most cases. Thus, it is not absolutely binding, even in nations that choose to ratify it, such as the UK.

I doubt seriously that an online petition will do any good anywhere, much less in Saudi Arabia.

Indeed, and its implementation is still subject to each nation's scrutiny. Interpretation is a matter for courts in most cases. Thus, it is not absolutely binding, even in nations that choose to ratify it, such as the UK.
It's in the nature of the UN, its charter, and most international agreements, to have loopholes and escape clauses and "interpretation" that allows the documents to look official and sound like they promote and protect important rights - but most of these documents are a farcical exercise in public relations.

I doubt seriously that an online petition will do any good anywhere, much less in Saudi Arabia.

A petition is only a document showing that a large number of people want a certain measure to be taken or repelled. Since the Saudi Government is not democratic however, it does not have reason to care about the opinion of the people, therefore a petition means nothing to the government it addresses.

A petition is only a document showing that a large number of people want a certain measure to be taken or repelled. Since the Saudi Government is not democratic however, it does not have reason to care about the opinion of the people, therefore a petition means nothing to the government it addresses.

Exactly. Imagine a petition of 100,000,000 Europeans telling the US who they should elect as President in 2008. We won't listen or care.

Saudi Arabia cares even less.

I doubt seriously that an online petition will do any good anywhere, much less in Saudi Arabia.

Its not just an online pertition. I'm working it in the real wolrd too. Plus despite the fact that it will only do a little good, a little good is better than no good.

Exactly. Imagine a petition of 100,000,000 Europeans telling the US who they should elect as President in 2008. We won't listen or care.

Saudi Arabia cares even less.

One hundred million Europeans, on the other hand, all armed with state-of-the-art weapons and technology -all at VERY reasonable rates- however... Think of the opportunities, my friend! You can bring peace and prosperity to the world for just 35 million per attack helicopter, ammunition not included!

*goes off to warn US about invaders and offer "advice"*

Exactly. Imagine a petition of 100,000,000 Europeans telling the US who they should elect as President in 2008. We won't listen or care.

Saudi Arabia cares even less.

1. This is a pertition to the UN and the US and UK governemnt to increase pressure on the Saudi Government, not to Saudi Arabia itself

2. Its not a pertition to encourage them to change their leader, that would be fruitless.

It's in the nature of the UN, its charter, and most international agreements, to have loopholes and escape clauses and "interpretation" that allows the documents to look official and sound like they promote and protect important rights - but most of these documents are a farcical exercise in public relations.
As I am still in the middle of my 1st year of undergraduate Law (I will not pursue it further than that...switching over to French), I can say that the Human Rights Act 2000 is having a significant effect on UK law, yet as you said, interpretation still serves to weaken it. Yet, establishing the rights of the individual in a society based on negative freedoms (ie those that Parliament has not yet declared unlawful) is all the more important in protecting one's positive freedoms (ie irrevocable rights). Thus, it is of significance that such rights are recognised.

Bump - I can see that the forum here is riddled with synicism about the sucsess of what I am trying to do, but remember the old phrase, no one can do everything but everyone can do something

Bump

It may not help, but it can't hurt. The more pressure is brought to bear against the tyrants of the world, the more condemnation and ridicule is heaped upon them, the more likely they will be to take some steps to reform.

Please, even if you dont think its going to help, sign anyway. Every signiture will count somewhat

Bump - Please. I would hope that a group as politcally minded as those of NS would want to help a cause like this.

Please, even if you dont think its going to help, sign anyway. Every signiture will count somewhatBumpBump - Please. I would hope that a group as politcally minded as those of NS would want to help a cause like this.
That is not the way it works...(do not plead for our pity)

Yes we are politically minded...But you should not take our signatures for granted.

I have no doubt that you have good intentions...but is your cause important enough?

If all and everyone signs every petition there is out there...then petitions would become meaningless.

I am the 13th signer

good luck

Yes we are politically minded...But you should not take our signatures for granted.

I have no doubt that you have good intentions...but is your cause important enough?

Saudi Arabia is the single worst violater of religious freedom rights in the world today.

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2002/14012.htm

http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/051109/2005110928.html

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewForeignBureaus.asp?Page=%5CForeignBureaus%5Carchive%5C200409%5CFOR20040916a.html

http://www.freedomhouse.org/religion/news/bn2005/bn-2005-01-28.htm

http://www.asianews.it/view.php?l=en&art=4582

http://www.hrw.org/doc?t=mideast&c=saudia

http://www.crosswalk.com/news/religiontoday/1362107.html

http://www.warriorsfortruth.com/saudi-arabia-religious-persecution.html

It won't do anything, but signing it can't hurt.

It won't do anything, but signing it can't hurt.

Don't be so pessimistic. We only need about 30 more signatures and Saudi Arabia will be free.

I would apriciate opinions on this as well as signatures on the site to help my cause

The issue is that the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is not a legally-binding resolution. Two other documents were created:

The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights New York, 16 December 1966 (http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/a_ccpr.htm), which Saudi Arabia never ratified (http://www.ohchr.org/english/countries/ratification/4.htm).

Article 18

1. Everyone shall have the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion. This right shall include freedom to have or to adopt a religion or belief of his choice, and freedom, either individually or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in worship, observance, practice and teaching.

2. No one shall be subject to coercion which would impair his freedom to have or to adopt a religion or belief of his choice.

3. Freedom to manifest one's religion or beliefs may be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary to protect public safety, order, health, or morals or the fundamental rights and freedoms of others.

4. The States Parties to the present Covenant undertake to have respect for the liberty of parents and, when applicable, legal guardians to ensure the religious and moral education of their children in conformity with their own convictions.

In the case of Saudi Arabia, they often cite expressions are immoral and banned by strict law -- Islamic law. Thus, what we consider a legal expression of religious expression they see as legally-prohibitted heresy, apostasy, and anathema.

Legally, the Saudis have never signed this treaty, thus are not bound by it.

You can certainly petition for them to voluntarily comply with the treaty, and even take to sign it now, since it is nearly 40 years since its initial passing.

Don't be so pessimistic. We only need about 30 more signatures and Saudi Arabia will be free.

:D

If it's so easy, i'll have to start a "Build and populate me a harem" petition.

I would apriciate opinions on this as well as signatures on the site to help my cause


Ok, You'll have at least my opinion but not my signature. I'll sign if you were asking for the humans right, all of them, and not just the religion freedom one. For me it's not one of the most importants, although, of course, I think everyone can believe everything they want. But, where are the women rights, the political ones, etc..? Why is your cause the freedom of religious beliefs? Do you really think that it matters to arabs? Remember that they are all of them muslims (although the shiite minorie is quite oppressed), so their religion is officially recognised by law. Maybe foraigners have not the right to build churches (but in military US bases, of course) but I think it's not very important at all, at least til the core of the Humans Rights Bill would be recognise. Perhaps you're convinced that they cannot be happy or saved til they meet your god.

Anyway, good luck, I'm with every fighter for freedom.

Signed -- you're at 20.

Now all you need is about 1,000,000 more and you're talking a statistically significant number.

Why is your cause the freedom of religious beliefs? Do you really think that it matters to arabs? Remember that they are all of them muslims (although the shiite minorie is quite oppressed), so their religion is officially recognised by law.

That's untrue. Not all arabic peoples (referring to nationalities where the main language is arabic) are Islamic. Egypt, for example, has several million Christians.

That's untrue. Not all arabic peoples (referring to nationalities where the main language is arabic) are Islamic. Egypt, for example, has several million Christians.

We were talking about Saudi Arabs, but of course you're right. I should say all saudis.

:)

Good luck with that. Why don't you work on improving the lot of women in Saudi, while you are at it?

We were talking about Saudi Arabs, but of course you're right. I should say all saudis.

:)

Okay, fair enough.

IIRC, the Saudi's have the death penalty for any citizen publicly proclaiming atheism, too. I know for a fact that atheists aren't allowed to enter the country, either.

By the way, what happens with the Vatican? I'm not shure but I guess it's not posible to have a diferent faith that the Catholic one. It's quite the same, it's not?;)

I would apriciate opinions on this as well as signatures on the site to help my cause

I support it and will sign.

Unfortunately, it won't make any difference. (Particularly with the coziness between Bush and the Saudis).

Ok, You'll have at least my opinion but not my signature. I'll sign if you were asking for the humans right, all of them, and not just the religion freedom one. For me it's not one of the most importants, although, of course, I think everyone can believe everything they want. But, where are the women rights, the political ones, etc..? Why is your cause the freedom of religious beliefs? Do you really think that it matters to arabs? Remember that they are all of them muslims (although the shiite minorie is quite oppressed), so their religion is officially recognised by law. Maybe foraigners have not the right to build churches (but in military US bases, of course) but I think it's not very important at all, at least til the core of the Humans Rights Bill would be recognise. Perhaps you're convinced that they cannot be happy or saved til they meet your god.

Anyway, good luck, I'm with every fighter for freedom.

The reason I pick religous freedom is that Saudi Arabia is the worst viloater of religious freedom. The phrase is "no one can do everything, but everyone can do something"

Okay, fair enough.

IIRC, the Saudi's have the death penalty for any citizen publicly proclaiming atheism, too. I know for a fact that atheists aren't allowed to enter the country, either.

As an Atheist, I dislike a lot the Saudi sistem, but anyway, I keep saying that Saudis have bigger problems than worry about the alien atheists. And it's not the same the religion freedom than the thought freedom, united to expression freedom. The second one it's bigger than the first, 'cause the religon freedom is inside, like the political freedom, etc.

Please, even if you dont think its going to help, sign anyway. Every signiture will count somewhat

Please take a few seconds to do something that -- however unlikely -- may make the world a better place. Sign the petition.

As an Atheist, I dislike a lot the Saudi sistem, but anyway, I keep saying that Saudis have bigger problems than worry about the alien atheists. And it's not the same the religion freedom than the thought freedom, united to expression freedom. The second one it's bigger than the first, 'cause the religon freedom is inside, like the political freedom, etc.

Yeah. Good news is that the Saudi Population is leaving in droves... 1 person in every 250 emigrated in 2005 according to the CIA world factbook. Eventually, it'll fall apart if they keep up the repression.

Ok, You'll have at least my opinion but not my signature. I'll sign if you were asking for the humans right, all of them, and not just the religion freedom one. For me it's not one of the most importants, although, of course, I think everyone can believe everything they want. But, where are the women rights, the political ones, etc..? Why is your cause the freedom of religious beliefs? Do you really think that it matters to arabs? Remember that they are all of them muslims (although the shiite minorie is quite oppressed), so their religion is officially recognised by law. Maybe foraigners have not the right to build churches (but in military US bases, of course) but I think it's not very important at all, at least til the core of the Humans Rights Bill would be recognise. Perhaps you're convinced that they cannot be happy or saved til they meet your god.

Anyway, good luck, I'm with every fighter for freedom.

You have to pick your battles. Attacking everything "wrong" with Saudia Arabia at once would be ludicrous.

Freedom of conscience has long been thought of as the foremost of our rights. It is a logical and moral place to begin.

The reason I pick religous freedom is that Saudi Arabia is the worst viloater of religious freedom. The phrase is "no one can do everything, but everyone can do something"

The question it's not why Saudi Arabia, it's why religious freedom;)

The question it's not why Saudi Arabia, it's why religious freedom;)

I answered both questions. Saudi Arabia is the worst breacher of the right to freedom of religion. I am a Christian myself, but you can be an athiest or a Jew or a Hindu or anything else to see that its unreasonable to outlaw a particular faith.

You have to pick your battles. Attacking everything "wrong" with Saudia Arabia at once would be ludicrous.

Freedom of conscience has long been thought of as the foremost of our rights. It is a logical and moral place to begin.

I totally agree with you, but you should see the post I wrote a bit later, conscience freedom is much bigger than religious freedom.

After the religion wars in europe there was religious freedom but not conscience freedom. If I want I should be able to shout "Down with religion" or "Down with king" in the middle of the street.

I repeat, I'm not against religious freedom. Anyway, I think the problem with Saudi Arabia is too much religion, opening the offer we're not giving an aswer. The question is What role should religion plays in a modern society?

I totally agree with you, but you should see the post I wrote a bit later, conscience freedom is much bigger than religious freedom.

After the religion wars in europe there was religious freedom but not conscience freedom. If I want I should be able to shout "Down with religion" or "Down with king" in the middle of the street.

I repeat, I'm not against religious freedom. Anyway, I think the problem with Saudi Arabia is too much religion, opening the offer we're not giving an aswer. The question is What role should religion plays in a modern society?

It sounds more like excuses for your not signing than reasons.

I answered both questions. Saudi Arabia is the worst breacher of the right to freedom of religion. I am a Christian myself, but you can be an athiest or a Jew or a Hindu or anything else to see that its unreasonable to outlaw a particular faith.

I don't see a real answer in this quote. Once again, YES, I'M FOR THE FREEDOM OF RELIGION.

Second, It's the most important right that Arabs (from Saudi Arabia) have not recognised? NO, I DON'T THINK SO. IT'S THOUGHT FREEDOM? I THINK IT IS, BUT WE SHOULD ASK THEM.

Please, stop with that and give me a reasonable answer. With a " but ifthought freedom it's the same than religious freedom" will be enough, even if I don't agree.:headbang:

It sounds more like excuses for your not signing than reasons.

I need no excuses for that, please! Tell me why do you think that aren't reasons.

It may not help, but it can't hurt. The more pressure is brought to bear against the tyrants of the world, the more condemnation and ridicule is heaped upon them, the more likely they will be to take some steps to reform.
... or take steps to squeeze the west's oil supplies until we squeal. That's why the Saudis get away with their tyrany.

The reason I pick religous freedom is that Saudi Arabia is the worst viloater of religious freedom.
Since the departure of the Taliban in Afghanistan, it's also the worst violator of women's freedom, isn't it? The restrictions on women are far more significant than being unable to worship in public, and oppress far more people.

Since the departure of the Taliban in Afghanistan, it's also the worst violator of women's freedom, isn't it? The restrictions on women are far more significant than being unable to worship in public, and oppress far more people.

You pick your battles. No one can do everything but everyone can do something

This always happens, whenever somone selects one cause to support, everyone says "there is X cause that is in more need than yours". There will always be many issues. I am tackling one. If you believe that womens freedom is more important then you should do something about it. But just because you believe X cause is more important/worthy of your attention than Y cause, doesnt mean that Y cause is invalid.

By the way, what happens with the Vatican? I'm not shure but I guess it's not posible to have a diferent faith that the Catholic one. It's quite the same, it's not?;)
Not really. The Vatican is a small place. It has few residents, and no businesses or resources other than the Catholic church. I'm not sure if non-catholics are allowed to live and work there, but how many would even want to?

Saudi Arabia is a major center for oil production and petrochemical industry. It's also home to many people. There are a number of businesses that operate worldwide who must do business there. Their employees must sacrifice their religious rights whenever they go to Saudi to do business.

If Saudi decided that Mecca should be run like the Vatican city, so be it. However forcing it's millions of residents nationwide and the visitors it recieves every year to either submit to Islam or face severe punishment is barbaric.

Yeah. Good news is that the Saudi Population is leaving in droves... 1 person in every 250 emigrated in 2005 according to the CIA world factbook. Eventually, it'll fall apart if they keep up the repression.
Maybe they're just exporting the repression.

... or take steps to squeeze the west's oil supplies until we squeal. That's why the Saudis get away with their tyrany.
Squeeze the oil supply too much and they squeeze their wallets. The seller relies on the buyer just as much. A long term spike in gas prices will drive people to conserve oil and develop non-oil technologies. There's only so much they can do to us without commiting economic suicide.

... or take steps to squeeze the west's oil supplies until we squeal. That's why the Saudis get away with their tyrany.

So lets show them that having oil doesnt give them a blank cheque to do whatever they want

Bump

Maybe they're just exporting the repression.
Where? It's not like some of those middle eastern countries can get any worse, and I don't expect them to be able to form religious police forces that patrol downtown Los Angeles.

People, remember that Saudi Arabia is the single worst breacher of the right to freedom of religion that exists today

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2002/14012.htm

http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/051109/2005110928.html

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewForeignBureaus.asp?Page=%5CForeignBureaus%5Carchive%5C200409%5CFOR20040916a.html

http://www.freedomhouse.org/religion/news/bn2005/bn-2005-01-28.htm

http://www.asianews.it/view.php?l=en&art=4582

http://www.hrw.org/doc?t=mideast&c=saudia

http://www.crosswalk.com/news/religiontoday/1362107.html

http://www.warriorsfortruth.com/saudi-arabia-religious-persecution.html

http://www.persecution.org/Countries/saudi_arabia.html

http://www.cswusa.com/Countries/SaudiArabia.htm

http://www.worthynews.com/news-features/christian-persecution-watch.html

http://www.meforum.org/article/535

http://www.freedomhouse.org/religion/news/bn2005/bn-2005-00-16.htm

http://www.leaderu.com/common/saudiarabia.html

Please show support for this cause, it takes no money and very little effort

http://www.petitiononline.com/SARF/petition.html

bump

Bump. Please help this situation. Saudi Arabia right now believes it has a carte blanc to do whatever it likes because it has oil. Lets try to prove them wrong

Bump

Saudi Arabia right now believes it has a carte blanc to do whatever it likes because it has oil.

Bingo! Yahtzee! We have a big winner!

From OP the Saudi Arabian government are violating this freedom by officially outlawing public worship of non-Muslim religions.

They dislike private worship of non-muslim religions too. Some months ago, few hindus were arrested because they had a makeshift temple inside their apartments and people come and worship there.

Where? It's not like some of those middle eastern countries can get any worse, and I don't expect them to be able to form religious police forces that patrol downtown Los Angeles.
How about religious fanatics who scout out locations for other religious fanatics to blow up? Remember, most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi nationals.

So lets show them that having oil doesnt give them a blank cheque to do whatever they want

Damn right, it's the fact that they are a sovreign nation that gives them the right to do whatever they want.

Damn right, it's the fact that they are a sovreign nation that gives them the right to do whatever they want.

Like Isreal?

Damn right, it's the fact that they are a sovreign nation that gives them the right to do whatever they want.

They do not have the right to arrest people on the grounds of religion only

I posted this same thread in a Muslim forum (and very peacably) and they baned me an deleted the thread. I need reasurence from any peace loving Muslims (Keruluvia I'm looking at you) that this pertition has Islamic support

bump

Bump

This always happens, whenever somone selects one cause to support, everyone says "there is X cause that is in more need than yours". There will always be many issues. I am tackling one. If you believe that womens freedom is more important then you should do something about it. But just because you believe X cause is more important/worthy of your attention than Y cause, doesnt mean that Y cause is invalid.
Perhaps not, but you gave your reason for pressing the religious freedom issue as being that Saudi Arabia is the worst violator of religious freedom. That's a reason for campaigning against Saudi Arabia, as opposed to somewhere else. But the implication of what you now say is that the reason for picking on the religious freedom issue is that you regard religious rights as more important/worthy than women's rights, or freedom of speech generally, or democratic rights. To my mind, compared to the other issues, freedom of religion is a trivial issue (and would come as a consequence of the wider freedoms in any case).

Perhaps not, but you gave your reason for pressing the religious freedom issue as being that Saudi Arabia is the worst violator of religious freedom. That's a reason for campaigning against Saudi Arabia, as opposed to somewhere else. But the implication of what you now say is that the reason for picking on the religious freedom issue is that you regard religious rights as more important/worthy than women's rights, or freedom of speech generally, or democratic rights. To my mind, compared to the other issues, freedom of religion is a trivial issue (and would come as a consequence of the wider freedoms in any case).

You have to pick your battles.

Every cause can be proven to be qualifyably more important than another cause, so you have to choose one. Like the Cat Tribe said earlier, attacking everything that is "wrong" with Saudi Arabia at a stroke is ludicrous. You have to choose a cause and fight for it. Basicly what your saying here is "My fighting for the other, more important causes makes me unable to fight for the (IYO) less important ones". I dont see how that is. Are you seriously going to suggest that your so busy fighting for Saudi Arabian women's freedoms that you couldnt sign this pertition? No one can do everything, but everyone can do something

bump

People, remember that Saudi Arabia is the single worst breacher of the right to freedom of religion that exists today

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2002/14012.htm

http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/051109/2005110928.html

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewForeignBureaus.asp?Page=%5CForeignBureaus%5Carchive%5C200409%5CFOR20040916a.html

http://www.freedomhouse.org/religion/news/bn2005/bn-2005-01-28.htm

http://www.asianews.it/view.php?l=en&art=4582

http://www.hrw.org/doc?t=mideast&c=saudia

http://www.crosswalk.com/news/religiontoday/1362107.html

http://www.warriorsfortruth.com/saudi-arabia-religious-persecution.html

http://www.persecution.org/Countries/saudi_arabia.html

http://www.cswusa.com/Countries/SaudiArabia.htm

http://www.worthynews.com/news-features/christian-persecution-watch.html

http://www.meforum.org/article/535

http://www.freedomhouse.org/religion/news/bn2005/bn-2005-00-16.htm

http://www.leaderu.com/common/saudiarabia.html

Please show support for this cause, it takes no money and very little effort

http://www.petitiononline.com/SARF/petition.html

Bump

In Saudi Arabia, the only legal religion is one extremist and xenophobic brand of Islam - so even moderate Islamic beliefs are illegal.

In Saudi Arabia, the only legal religion is one extremist and xenophobic brand of Islam - so even moderate Islamic beliefs are illegal.

Indeed. This is why I need people to sign this pertition to at least start some help towards ending this tyrany

Bump

Bump

I've signed it but I think now might be a good time to give up on this forum, you've probably got all you're going to get.

Why not try the other Jolt forums?

I've signed it but I think now might be a good time to give up on this forum, you've probably got all you're going to get.

Why not try the other Jolt forums?

All the other ones I can see are about gaming, none of them would let me in with this kind of disucssion. Where would you suggest?

All the other ones I can see are about gaming, none of them would let me in with this kind of disucssion. Where would you suggest?

There's a Jolt general forum (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=11) but it's fairly small.

The serious discussion forum (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=1038) would probably let you post the petition if you also post you're reasons for it.

Obviously anything goes in Spam (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=29) but I doubt anyone there would take any serious interest.

Most of the gaming forums have a General Forum like this one so you could try there.

I also seem to remember the Darwin Awards (http://www.darwinawards.com/) having a pretty active political/religous/philosophical forum so you could probably find support there.

Good luck.:)

Indeed. This is why I need people to sign this pertition to at least start some help towards ending this tyrany
You do realize no one cares about petitions, online petitions even less.

Great, another pointless online petition started by some guy whose only qualification is that he has a hotmail address.

The idea that any state has the right to impose upon its population what they can and cannot believe is so repulsive to me I can only seek solace in the fact that nobody of any importance remotely cares about this idiotic waste of time.

Damn right, it's the fact that they are a sovreign nation that gives them the right to do whatever they want.

Sovereignty is grounded in the population at large so it damn well does not.

I especially like the one guy who signed with "Death to Infidels!!" ...

Yes ... I'm sure people will take this petition seriously.

Great, another pointless online petition started by some guy whose only qualification is that he has a hotmail address.

Firstly, I would apreciate you not insulting me. You don't know what qualifications I have, what level I am currently studying at or anything else about me, so kindly do not resort to attacks on my credentials when you dont even know what my credentials are.


The idea that any state has the right to impose upon its population what they can and cannot believe is so repulsive to me I can only seek solace in the fact that nobody of any importance remotely cares about this idiotic waste of time.

The Saudi Arabian government signed up to the UN. As a result they have an obligation to follow the codes of conduct set out by the UN. And anyway, as I am sure you can agree the practise of banning religious freedom is intollarant of an important human right

You do realize no one cares about petitions, online petitions even less.

Dont be so sure. A 250,000 strong pertition got the British government to begin to change its policy regarding local government fiances IE give more money to schools for resorce based needs (school dinners, PE equipment etc)

Dont be so sure. A 250,000 strong pertition got the British government to begin to change its policy regarding local government fiances IE give more money to schools for resorce based needs (school dinners, PE equipment etc)

It would seem Saddam Hussein has signed your petition. Ummmm ... yeah.

It would seem Saddam Hussein has signed your petition. Ummmm ... yeah.

People mocking me I am prepared to deal with. The question is Keruvalia, are you going to support me in this or not?

People mocking me I am prepared to deal with. The question is Keruvalia, are you going to support me in this or not?

Of course I support you, but not via an online petition of which there are now 2 signatures that are a clear indication of there being no weight to this document.

Anyone can sign anything. We don't even know that the other 50 some signatures are real names or just something someone made up.

The cause I support, the method I do not.

Of course I support you, but not via an online petition of which there are now 2 signatures that are a clear indication of there being no weight to this document.

Anyone can sign anything. We don't even know that the other 50 some signatures are real names or just something someone made up.

The cause I support, the method I do not.

Yes, but you signing it will be real. Granted there are people who make things up but that doest detract from the weight of the document

Yes, but you signing it will be real. Granted there are people who make things up but that doest detract from the weight of the document

Yes, actually, it does detract from the weight of the document.

In the US, we are allowed to petition our government for change or to address greivances. There are rules, however, to petitioning. All signers must be adults (18 years of age or older) who are eligable and registered to vote (petitions require voter reg numbers with the signature).

If the US received a petition signed by every citizen(subject?) of England, it would be immediately thrown away.

Your petition carries no weight. Sorry.

Yes, actually, it does detract from the weight of the document.

In the US, we are allowed to petition our government for change or to address greivances. There are rules, however, to petitioning. All signers must be adults (18 years of age or older) who are eligable and registered to vote (petitions require voter reg numbers with the signature).

If the US received a petition signed by every citizen(subject?) of England, it would be immediately thrown away.

Your petition carries no weight. Sorry.

It carries no weight to the American government perhaps, but the American govermnet is not the only governmnet that I am trying to lobby. The UN, and the UK too. My pertition carries weight, like it or not. If you sign it you are adding to that weight and making the cause stronger

It carries no weight to the American government perhaps, but the American govermnet is not the only governmnet that I am trying to lobby. The UN, and the UK too. My pertition carries weight, like it or not. If you sign it you are adding to that weight and making the cause stronger

The weight is made even less if you take a moment to understand the Muslim culture. One discussion in the Mosque with my brothers carries far more weight than your petition, signed by dozens of non-Muslims, will carry.

The weight is made even less if you take a moment to understand the Muslim culture. One discussion in the Mosque with my brothers carries far more weight than your petition, signed by dozens of non-Muslims, will carry.

It is being signed by Muslims, in case you havent noticed. If this way doesnt work, then perhaps you can suggest a better way of going about this cause and then enacting it, before you criticse what I am doing.

perhaps you can suggest a better way of going about this cause and then enacting it, before you criticse what I am doing.

I just did ... and do ... every day.

I just did ... and do ... every day.

So what are you doing to support Saudi Arabian religious freedom?

Firstly, I would apreciate you not insulting me. You don't know what qualifications I have, what level I am currently studying at or anything else about me, so kindly do not resort to attacks on my credentials when you dont even know what my credentials are.



The Saudi Arabian government signed up to the UN. As a result they have an obligation to follow the codes of conduct set out by the UN. And anyway, as I am sure you can agree the practise of banning religious freedom is intollarant of an important human right

For some reason I got confused with another petition bouncing around this site which was proposing that the Saudi government had the right to limit religious freedom. I apologise for the mistake, and my remarks which were rude, but wrought out of the anger for what I thought you were saying.

For some reason I got confused with another petition bouncing around this site which was proposing that the Saudi government had the right to limit religious freedom. I apologise for the mistake, and my remarks which were rude, but wrought out of the anger for what I thought you were saying.

Thats fine. I'm glad you've sorted it out now. Do you have an interest in signing this pertition

Bump

Bump.