NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, we all knew it was a matter of time...

From: http://www.sierratimes.com/05/11/29/64_28_54_218_34381.htm

Hunters now the hunted.
Michael E. Cook

Hunters are the latest targets of the animal rights extremists and may become victims of homicide. It seems terrorist organizations like the Animal Liberation Front (ALF) and Win Animal Rights (WAR) have become so radical that now they believe it is alright to kill humans to protect animals. Right now they are headed to New Jersey to stop a bear hunt by any means they can.

I just read a report by Cam Edwards on the 21st where ALF went to the home of Lloyd Harbor, New York mayor Leland Hairr and painted anti-hunting slogans on his home and his car in the garage because he had asked the state for a special season to help with a problem of too many deer in the area of his city.

Well the state of New York had already backed down, but not because of this act, they had already stopped because of pressure form the Catholic seminary in that city. So this criminal act never needed to happen in the first place. The police need to bring those responsible for this to justice as quick as possible.

There is a common thread between ALF and WAR, however they deny any connection. The North American Animal Liberation Press Office (NAALPO) has as one of their national press officers Camille Hankins who is the founder of WAR. They also have a Dr. Jerry Vlasak a trauma surgeon in Los Angeles, California as a press officer and he is a member of ALF. In an interview on “60 Minutes” Vlasak has said, “I think for five lives, ten lives, 15 human lives, we could save a million, two million, ten million nonhuman lives.” He told CBS, “I think people who torture innocent beings should be stopped. And if they won’t stop when you ask them nicely, they won’t stop when you demonstrate to them what they’re doing is wrong, then they should be stopped using whatever means necessary.” What does this mean to you?

They have become terrorists and their target is hunters and others. I think they mean to do whatever it takes including breaking the law and using homicide to stop hunting of animals. Every hunter who goes into the field should be ready and willing to do what it takes to protect themselves. This means you may need to leave someone in camp now to protect it. You will not only have to watch for game now you will have to distrust and watch anyone else in the wood with you. Can you see how this is going to affect our national pastime and heritage? What is this world coming too? We may soon know if they are willing to take a human life to protect a bear.

To date no one in government is speaking out against these organizations. Are they afraid of them or what? Right now these groups have destroyed over 100 million dollars worth of property and they are becoming more violent. They have declared war on us so when will our government and law enforcement do something about it? It’s time to start fighting back. Perhaps the ALF and WAR people will wake up to find someone painted their homes and vehicles. Do we need a group to fight them on their own terms? Will the government do anything to that group? I think they would.

What this means is that you and I will have to be very careful in the future and around our own homes. Will I become a target because I write about this? Well I can tell you I am already on their list for not only writing about them but because I have fought against them politically on many occasions. I will tell them the same thing I told criminals who made threats against me and my family, “Come on down and make your first shot count, because the second one is mine and I don’t miss.”

This is not the America we asked for and it sure isn’t what many of us fought the wars for, but it is reality in this day and age. It’s time to get active and stop this kind of activity before it goes to a shooting war. Call our political leaders and let them know how you feel. In short get involved before it is to late, the time to act is now.

God Bless America and God bless our troops still in harms way.

Michael E. Cook, Coos County Sheriff, Retired

I still wonder how these ARA whackjobs think they can win when they keep pissing everyone off left and right. One thing is for certain, they will not win any supporters just by issuing these threats. The only good thing I can see from this is maybe the officials will finally take some action against these terrorists.

Fuck that. A human life is *always* more important then an animal life.

Why does it seem that only the radical groups I'm not a part of are the ones accully taking action and having success? The animal liberationists, the militant feminists.....while the anti-imperialism and peace movements are faltering and dieing :(

Ah, things like this make me proud to be a butcher.. makes me take that extra bit of pride in my work. :p

I wonder if the FBI has infiltrated these groups at all.. I mean, how hard is it to get an agent in? Go to a few protests, maybe do a few spraypaintings to gain their confidence, etc... we do it for the mafia, why not for these guys?

One day, animal liberationists will rule the world, then be eaten by grizzlies.

Why does it seem that only the radical groups I'm not a part of are the ones accully taking action and having success? The animal liberationists, the militant feminists.....while the anti-imperialism and peace movements are faltering and dieing :(Because you don't physically threaten anyone. Apparently, might makes right. If you're not destroying property or shooting at someone, you won't get taken seriously.

The MM should take these guys on :D

As an avid, responsible (and liberal) hunter and fisherman, I've ben waiting to see someone from PETA or ALF for quite a while. What's funny about this is that I would not hesitate to shoot at them if in fact I deemed them to be a threat. And let me see here, I am bout 6'3 230 lbs and have a beard.
Would the friends of the chicken shit ALF nut go to the local, RURAL authorities and explain that a stalky white man with facial hair wearing cammo shot one of their buddies starting shit in the woods? "Well sir, he had a deer rifle!"
I gotta see this!

I thought "People were animals too?" :(

Animals that can shoot.

Wouldn't it be funny if someone blew up the ALF headquarters!

*goes out front and waits for law enforcement*

As an avid, responsible (and liberal) hunter and fisherman, I've ben waiting to see someone from PETA or ALF for quite a while. What's funny about this is that I would not hesitate to shoot at them if in fact I deemed them to be a threat. And let me see here, I am bout 6'3 230 lbs and have a beard.
Would the friends of the chicken shit ALF nut go to the local, RURAL authorities and explain that a stalky white man with facial hair wearing cammo shot one of their buddies starting shit in the woods? "Well sir, he had a deer rifle!"
I gotta see this!

It might just be the beard, but I like you :)

Awww shux...

Fuck that. A human life is *always* more important then an animal life.

Why ? It is such an easily made statement, but I seldom see it backed up by reasoning.

Devils advocate:
Would you value the life of the man that just raped and then murdered your daughter higher than the life of the dog that has been your friend for 10 years, in that period saving your life from a fire twice ?

I think when the statement is made saying a humans life is above an animals, it is understood that we are talking about your average person that does not rape, murder, (lie a nation to war, sorry, had to get that out) ect. And, I love my dogs, but there is a reason that they rely on me for food and shelter, it is not because we are the same level on the food chain.

What? These pussies actually think they can kill a redneck hunter? Pah! If they walk up to those hunters, they're gonna get wasted.

Anyway, I guess the tables are even now. Soon I may actually have a legal reason to kill every PETA/ALF/WAR member I see.

Where's Peta when you need her?

I think when the statement is made saying a humans life is above an animals, it is understood that we are talking about your average person that does not rape, murder, (lie a nation to war, sorry, had to get that out) ect.

You can't. Either ALL humans are by definition better than ANY animal, or it depends on the individual. You can't have both; though you can of course claim that humans at birth start out being worth more.
Of course - then the question becomes which actions would make a human worth "less"...

And, I love my dogs, but there is a reason that they rely on me for food and shelter, it is not because we are the same level on the food chain.

Neither are your baby children - they are in fact below that dog ;)
Besides, why should being "higher on the food chain" make a difference ?

(Note: I am not an animal rights activist - but I do like people to actually *think* about their own position instead of just saying "they are obviously wrong")

Where's Peta when you need her?


Killing dogs and cats they supposedly "saved" from shelters and making propoganda videos out of them.

Why ? It is such an easily made statement, but I seldom see it backed up by reasoning.

Devils advocate:
Would you value the life of the man that just raped and then murdered your daughter higher than the life of the dog that has been your friend for 10 years, in that period saving your life from a fire twice ?

I think generally it means more in terms of how we use animals. For example when it comes to testing on animals form medicine or not doing so and losing years of research its no question that humans trump animals.

Killing dogs and cats they supposedly "saved" from shelters and making propoganda videos out of them.
Sorry, I forget most NSers don't watch Fox. Peta a furloving columnist with a grudge against PETA. She was featured on Fox News this morning(7ish last night).

so when do they intend to get around to providing evidence that the alf has changed it's position on harming animals? all i saw was some property destruction and a bit of boilerplate about 'any means necessary'.

You can't. Either ALL humans are by definition better than ANY animal, or it depends on the individual. You can't have both; though you can of course claim that humans at birth start out being worth more.
Of course - then the question becomes which actions would make a human worth "less"...



Neither are your baby children - they are in fact below that dog ;)
Besides, why should being "higher on the food chain" make a difference ?

(Note: I am not an animal rights activist - but I do like people to actually *think* about their own position instead of just saying "they are obviously wrong")


Many people do think of their pets as their children of sorts, and while it may seem a bit wierd, I do work 2 jobs, go to school, and make sure they are fed and sheltered and that they receive proper medical treatment. Also, my other point is that people state that a humans life is above an animals, and I do agree, for the most par. However, I would consider my either of my pups life to have a much higher priority than a serial rapist or murderer. What certain actions should affect the value of ones life (or lack thereof), well, we would have to say that when one commits an act that causes sever harm, mental, severe emotional or sever physical injury or death, then I would not place much value on that persons life.
As far as the food chain remark, that is an example to those who ask the difference between a man and an animal. Although, as a hunter, and one who is "higher on the food chain", I do feel we have a responsibility to care for the animal population at the same time. We do this by utilizing our Game and Fish departments, and maintaining programs that allow animal life to flourish without overpopulating.

Sorry, I forget most NSers don't watch Fox. Peta a furloving columnist with a grudge against PETA. She was featured on Fox News this morning(7ish last night).


I watch Fox News when I'm in the mood for a good laugh. I keep a check list of everytime I catch OReilly or Hannidy lying.


I got all the way up to 8 last week with OReilly

I don't particularly like the source of this news story. It's an obviously biased website, but it got me to do a little reading about the ALF which is a leaderless group of nonviolent activists against anyone who harms animals. However there is another group organized in simular manner called the "Justice Department" who think that people who abuse animals have "been warned long enough" and have done things like send letters containing razorblades dipped in rat poision to researchers and hunting guides and the like, in hopes of them cutting themselves while opening the letter. In the strict sense of the word both organizations are terroristic, they hope to cause fear and panic in people to prevent them from harming animals. I think that PETA is a much better organization in that sense, they focus on advertizing campaigns and lawsuits, rather than eco-terrorism and death threats. The whole thing makes me appreciate PETA and Greenpeace and the groups everyone used to think were wacko.

so when do they intend to get around to providing evidence that the alf has changed it's position on harming animals? all i saw was some property destruction and a bit of boilerplate about 'any means necessary'.

anybody?

and what is it about the topic of animal rights that sends all of you into uncontrollable bouts of irrational jibbering?

I bet if ALF and ELF had dark-skinned spokesmen the Department of Homeland Security would be a helluva lot quicker to classify them as terrorist organizations and crack down on them.

Or they're just waiting for ALF and ELF to kill someone before doing a damn thing about it.

I bet if ALF and ELF had dark-skinned spokesmen the Department of Homeland Security would be a helluva lot quicker to classify them as terrorist organizations and crack down on them.

Or they're just waiting for ALF and ELF to kill someone before doing a damn thing about it.

they are (incorrectly) classified as terrorist organizations and have been since the late 90s. they've been trying to crack down on both for years now, but it's difficult to infiltrate an organization that has no hierarchy or even two-way communication between cells. and it is highly unlikely that anyone will ever be killed by either the alf or elf - because it's against their principles and would probably just not be acknowledged as an actual alf or elf action.

Well, we all knew it was a matter of time...

From: http://www.sierratimes.com/05/11/29/64_28_54_218_34381.htm

Hunters now the hunted.
Michael E. Cook

Hunters are the latest targets of the animal rights extremists and may become victims of homicide. It seems terrorist organizations like the Animal Liberation Front (ALF) and Win Animal Rights (WAR) have become so radical that now they believe it is alright to kill humans to protect animals. Right now they are headed to New Jersey to stop a bear hunt by any means they can.

I just read a report by Cam Edwards on the 21st where ALF went to the home of Lloyd Harbor, New York mayor Leland Hairr and painted anti-hunting slogans on his home and his car in the garage because he had asked the state for a special season to help with a problem of too many deer in the area of his city.

Well the state of New York had already backed down, but not because of this act, they had already stopped because of pressure form the Catholic seminary in that city. So this criminal act never needed to happen in the first place. The police need to bring those responsible for this to justice as quick as possible.

There is a common thread between ALF and WAR, however they deny any connection. The North American Animal Liberation Press Office (NAALPO) has as one of their national press officers Camille Hankins who is the founder of WAR. They also have a Dr. Jerry Vlasak a trauma surgeon in Los Angeles, California as a press officer and he is a member of ALF. In an interview on “60 Minutes” Vlasak has said, “I think for five lives, ten lives, 15 human lives, we could save a million, two million, ten million nonhuman lives.” He told CBS, “I think people who torture innocent beings should be stopped. And if they won’t stop when you ask them nicely, they won’t stop when you demonstrate to them what they’re doing is wrong, then they should be stopped using whatever means necessary.” What does this mean to you?

They have become terrorists and their target is hunters and others. I think they mean to do whatever it takes including breaking the law and using homicide to stop hunting of animals. Every hunter who goes into the field should be ready and willing to do what it takes to protect themselves. This means you may need to leave someone in camp now to protect it. You will not only have to watch for game now you will have to distrust and watch anyone else in the wood with you. Can you see how this is going to affect our national pastime and heritage? What is this world coming too? We may soon know if they are willing to take a human life to protect a bear.

To date no one in government is speaking out against these organizations. Are they afraid of them or what? Right now these groups have destroyed over 100 million dollars worth of property and they are becoming more violent. They have declared war on us so when will our government and law enforcement do something about it? It’s time to start fighting back. Perhaps the ALF and WAR people will wake up to find someone painted their homes and vehicles. Do we need a group to fight them on their own terms? Will the government do anything to that group? I think they would.

What this means is that you and I will have to be very careful in the future and around our own homes. Will I become a target because I write about this? Well I can tell you I am already on their list for not only writing about them but because I have fought against them politically on many occasions. I will tell them the same thing I told criminals who made threats against me and my family, “Come on down and make your first shot count, because the second one is mine and I don’t miss.”

This is not the America we asked for and it sure isn’t what many of us fought the wars for, but it is reality in this day and age. It’s time to get active and stop this kind of activity before it goes to a shooting war. Call our political leaders and let them know how you feel. In short get involved before it is to late, the time to act is now.

God Bless America and God bless our troops still in harms way.

Michael E. Cook, Coos County Sheriff, Retired

a tad harsh....but....everyone knows the animal kingdom is so forgiving....

You can't. Either ALL humans are by definition better than ANY animal, or it depends on the individual. You can't have both; though you can of course claim that humans at birth start out being worth more.
Of course - then the question becomes which actions would make a human worth "less"...



Neither are your baby children - they are in fact below that dog ;)
Besides, why should being "higher on the food chain" make a difference ?

(Note: I am not an animal rights activist - but I do like people to actually *think* about their own position instead of just saying "they are obviously wrong")

just curious,
would you mind if your mate ate your offspring cause it was hungry?
funny thing life is...you gave the ability to differentiate,animals don't....if an animal ate your"baby"you might not be happy,nor would i..but does that make it ok?
we are higher on the food chain for a reason.

You can't. Either ALL humans are by definition better than ANY animal, or it depends on the individual. You can't have both; though you can of course claim that humans at birth start out being worth more.
Of course - then the question becomes which actions would make a human worth "less"...



Neither are your baby children - they are in fact below that dog ;)
Besides, why should being "higher on the food chain" make a difference ?

(Note: I am not an animal rights activist - but I do like people to actually *think* about their own position instead of just saying "they are obviously wrong")

just curious,
would you mind if your mate ate your offspring cause it was hungry?
funny thing life is...you gave the ability to differentiate,animals don't....if an animal ate your"baby"you might not be happy,nor would i..but does that make it ok?
we are higher on the food chain for a reason.

I just ran into this statement, seems to fit fine here :sniper:

Gov. Jesse Ventura
"You need to hunt something that can shoot back at you to really classify yourself as a hunter. You need to understand the feeling of what it's like to go into the field and know your opposition can take you out. Not just go out there and shoot Bambi." (Minneapolis Star-Tribune)

I just ran into this statement, seems to fit fine here :sniper:

Gov. Jesse Ventura
"You need to hunt something that can shoot back at you to really classify yourself as a hunter. You need to understand the feeling of what it's like to go into the field and know your opposition can take you out. Not just go out there and shoot Bambi." (Minneapolis Star-Tribune)

Not really. According to that statement, you are either a soldier, or a murderer who's looking for cops/armed people to kill. And besides, deer aside, there are quite a few animals armed with fairly decent anti-biological weapons. Bears, cougars, etc, etc.

I don't particularly like the source of this news story. It's an obviously biased website, but it got me to do a little reading about the ALF which is a leaderless group of nonviolent activists against anyone who harms animals. However there is another group organized in simular manner called the "Justice Department" who think that people who abuse animals have "been warned long enough" and have done things like send letters containing razorblades dipped in rat poision to researchers and hunting guides and the like, in hopes of them cutting themselves while opening the letter. In the strict sense of the word both organizations are terroristic, they hope to cause fear and panic in people to prevent them from harming animals. I think that PETA is a much better organization in that sense, they focus on advertizing campaigns and lawsuits, rather than eco-terrorism and death threats. The whole thing makes me appreciate PETA and Greenpeace and the groups everyone used to think were wacko.

I don't much care for Greenpeace either... They have put other's lives in danger with their antics, including before, my own.

Fuck that. A human life is *always* more important then an animal life.
Not really, if I had the choice of saving my cat or saddam from a burning building I'd save my cat.

Or they're just waiting for ALF and ELF to kill someone before doing a damn thing about it.

That's generally how our justice system works...you gatta do something wrong to be punished. After going back and re-reading the article, I couldn't find a part where they accully threaten to murder someone.


And people keep bringing up their pets. You only think their life is worth more because you are attached to them. You'd be out for blood if someone ate your dog, dispite the fact that you eat many animals a day.

Your pet is more important to you. Not more important. The only reason I'd find shooting a pet cat wrong and not shooting a dear or bear wrong is because the cat's death would cause humans suffering. So your pets only worth over other animals comes from the pain it would cause a person (you) if they were to be harmed.

:eek:
but that's how i get most of my food!
and humans are animals! and animals and plants are both alive and so it's no different killing an animal to killing a plant! argh! i truely loathe people like such!

I hate the "animal rights" groups for a reason. They forget that people are animals. Therefore, the antics of the major ar groups makes them hipocrites.

As for the human vs. animal issue: If I had to choose between a species of animal that might help humanity as a whole and the life of one person, I would choose the species because if that animal is instrumintal in curing a deadly cancer or eradicating AIDS, then the entire species could save millions. I wouldn't think of it as killing a person. I'd think of it as saving millions of men, women, and children at the cost of one person.

Here's my stance:
One average person is more important than one average species.
One average animal is more important than Sadaam or Bin Laden.
One species is more important than one person because that species might save millions.
Killing an animal is only okay if it was killed for:
survival, like if a bear was going to kill you.
food.
It is not okay for:
fun. Many serial killers got their start killing and torturing animals. They just went from step to step until their houses were filled with dead people.

I hate the animal rights movement too.

They're mostly a bunch of middle-class to upper-class wussies who can't take suffering...not even the suffering of animals. Yes, that is a generalization...but let's face it, its one that's true.

So becasue of thier "sensitivity" to animal suffering, they put other humans through some suffering of thier own. Mind you, these animal rights guys are probably the same guys that go out and buy the latest fashions/Ipod etc. and who are appaled at an image of a dead chicken but who fail to even consider the people who had to toil for thier Nikes.

A quick example...everyone is shocked at how Newfoundlanders beat baby seals to make a living. Well, let's see...to shoot them would cost more money not to mention spoil the furs that Newfoundlanders need to feed thier family. Anyways, celebrities go "OMG THATS SO CRUEL BOYCOTT BOYCOTT" and guess what? A massive unemployment rate in rural Newfoundland. Yay for saving the baby seals I guess.

I hate the animal rights movement too.

They're mostly a bunch of middle-class to upper-class wussies who can't take suffering...not even the suffering of animals. Yes, that is a generalization...but let's face it, its one that's true.

So becasue of thier "sensitivity" to animal suffering, they put other humans through some suffering of thier own. Mind you, these animal rights guys are probably the same guys that go out and buy the latest fashions/Ipod etc. and who are appaled at an image of a dead chicken but who fail to even consider the people who had to toil for thier Nikes.

A quick example...everyone is shocked at how Newfoundlanders beat baby seals to make a living. Well, let's see...to shoot them would cost more money not to mention spoil the furs that Newfoundlanders need to feed thier family. Anyways, celebrities go "OMG THATS SO CRUEL BOYCOTT BOYCOTT" and guess what? A massive unemployment rate in rural Newfoundland. Yay for saving the baby seals I guess.
They could at least make sure the animals are dead before they skin them. Maybe they could slit their throats or suffocate them or something. I mean, a few minutes of strangling isn't exactly going to bankrupt them.

After going back and re-reading the article, I couldn't find a part where they accully threaten to murder someone.

funny that, no? it's almost as if the entire article, and the ranting responses to it, are nothing more than an irrational outburst of fear and confusion.

It is not okay for:
fun. Many serial killers got their start killing and torturing animals. They just went from step to step until their houses were filled with dead people.

Yes, because all hunters will one day have their houses full of dead people ::rolls eyes::

I hate PETA because they support terrorism (http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=\Culture\archive\200203\CUL20020308a.html).

I hate PETA because they support terrorism (http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=\Culture\archive\200203\CUL20020308a.html).


too bad the u.s. government doesn't agree that peta's actions warrant even revoking their status as a non-profit organization then, no?

funny that, no? it's almost as if the entire article, and the ranting responses to it, are nothing more than an irrational outburst of fear and confusion.

I'm surprised it took so long for someone to point this out - where, exactly, does anyone say that they are actually going to go out and hunt hunters?

The article is an extremely conservative hunter's extreme speculation based on his warped interpretation of what that doctor is quoted as saying. People seem to be taking it as something more serious than that.

Is it possible that someone (connected with animal rights groups or not) at some point will go out during hunting season and shoot at hunters? Yes, it's possible. It's probably already happened, who knows.

However, "whatever means necessary" means something different to a member of an extreme liberal group and an extreme conservative. When I read what the doctor said, I did not immediately jump to "ALF members shooting and killing hunters", but I can easily imagine how someone that writes for that website might.

For the record, I don't think the ALF and similar groups are effective at all and they're clearly focusing their energy in the wrong places, but I am a strong supporter of animal rights.

A lot of people who are most outwardly opposed to groups like PETA and ALF seem like they hardly think of anything other than humans as living beings. Would never harm their pet, but wouldn't think twice about killing a wild animal for sport. To people who support such groups (the ideas at least), there is no difference between harming pets and wild animals of any sort.

Fundamental differences in the way people think about things like that are part of the reason why animal rights groups have started using more aggressive tactics. Truthfully, though, no matter what they try, it will be a very long time before they manage to change the way people like the writer of this article think.

Am I the only one that noticed that there is no real evidence presented in the OP or the (incredibly biased) article that animal rights activists endorse murder?

EDIT: I'm glad to see I was not the only one. However, this shows the power of misleading headlines.