NationStates Jolt Archive


## US Gov Try to Justify Secret CIA Prisons to European Govs...

OceanDrive2
29-11-2005, 18:31
Rice Seeks to Justify Secret CIA Prisons to EU.
WASHINGTON (Nov 28, 2005 4:53 PM ET) U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice will seek to deflect growing European pressure over allegations that the CIA has been running secret prisons in the region on a trip to the continent next week.

Faced with European demands that the United States explain a newspaper report that secret detention centers to interrogate terrorism suspects were located in two unnamed east European countries, Rice intends to remind the Europeans that they are in a joint fight against an enemy that she says obeys no laws.

Her trip will include stops in Germany, Romania and at the EU headquarters Brussels.

"I think that the conversation will take place in the broader context of our common struggle against terrorism," said State Department spokesman Sean McCormack.

"This is a struggle that all free countries, including the countries of Europe, share with us: how to deal with groups of people, individuals, that respect no law, that wear no uniform, that follow no regulations."

Rice's planned approach on next week's trip matches the U.S. response to a weeks-old scandal that has fueled -- rather than defused -- concerns among European governments and the public.

Since The Washington Post reported this month that the CIA has held detainees in secret in eastern Europe, the Bush administration has refused to deny or confirm the allegation. Instead, it has repeatedly insisted it is waging a war on militants who act outside of the law.

The report has prompted new concern about America's tactics in its war on terrorism in Europe, already critical of U.S. prisoner abuse in Iraq and the detention of prisoners for years in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

Human rights groups say incommunicado detention is illegal and often leads to torture.

SCANDAL TO CLOUD TRIP

Initially, Europe's reaction to the allegations was muted as governments waited for U.S. clarification of the report.

But Rice, who will also visit Ukraine, can expect to be dogged during her trip by questions over the prison allegations and over related investigations that the CIA transports suspects in secret using airports throughout Europe.

"We have received inquiries from Europe concerning these press reports," McCormack said. "We're going to do our best to answer these questions in as complete and forthright a manner as we possibly can."

On Monday, an EU commissioner warned any European Union state that secretly hosted a prison faces loss of its voting rights and said Washington should punish any violations.

The New York-based Human Rights Watch has identified one of Rice's stops, Romania, along with Poland, as one likely host of a secret prison. Both governments have denied the allegation.

Germany, where Rice will hold her first talks with the new chancellor, is also concerned about the scandal.

Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier, whose first official visit to Washington starts on Monday, is expected to raise the issue, German officials said.

"I presume that the seriousness of these (accusations) is being recognized in Washington," Steinmeier said at the United Nations.
Teh_pantless_hero
29-11-2005, 18:33
I will laugh if soem government detains her on human rights charges, especially Italy. Maybe they will hold her until those CIA operatives are extradited.
Deep Kimchi
29-11-2005, 18:34
I will laugh if soem government detains her on human rights charges, especially Italy. Maybe they will hold her until those CIA operatives are extradited.
Since she's not in charge of the CIA, you couldn't hold her on anything related to anything the CIA has done.

So what would you hold her on?
Lacadaemon
29-11-2005, 18:38
I will laugh if soem government detains her on human rights charges, especially Italy. Maybe they will hold her until those CIA operatives are extradited.

She'll have soveriegn/diplomatic immunity. She can't be held for anything legally.
OceanDrive2
29-11-2005, 18:40
Since she's not in charge of the CIA, you couldn't hold her on anything related to anything the CIA has done.

So what would you hold her on?The US gov is responsible for everything the CIA does...

Just like Hitler was responsible for anything the Gestapo did to the Gypsies,Poles,Jws,Romanians,etc.
Very Angry Rabbits
29-11-2005, 18:41
How about the same "charges" that the people being held in these "off shore" prisons are being held on?

As a US Citizen, I've had it. This administration sucks. With 29 1/2 years of service, I've just retired from the US Military Service (as a reservist) and from the US Civil Service. These people do not represent the United States I grew up in and served (to include 4 years of Active Duty in the Army). These people are what the US always stood AGAINST.
DrunkenDove
29-11-2005, 18:48
I'm glad the EU commision is taking a hard line on this. Perhaps the EU can actually act like allies for once.
OceanDrive2
29-11-2005, 18:49
She'll have soveriegn/diplomatic immunity. She can't be held for anything legally.care to explain wtf is sovereign immunity?


:D
Deep Kimchi
29-11-2005, 18:54
The US gov is responsible for everything the CIA does...

Just like Hitler was responsible for anything the Gestapo did to the Gypsies,Poles,jws, Romanians, etc.


and the US voters are responsible for electing Bush...Just like the German people was made responsible for Hitler...

...even the Iraqi people had to pay the death-and-destruction price for having Saddam as President.

She's in charge of the State Department, and has no authority over what the CIA does. Nor is she in charge of what the Army does, either.

It would be like hanging the German Ambassador for the Holocaust.

To answer your other question diplomatic immunity means that diplomats can't be arrested, charged, or tried.
Randomlittleisland
29-11-2005, 18:56
care to explain wtf is sovereign immunity?


:D

It means that she is immune to monarchs, poison and 'Swords of Mighty Burning +17'.:)
OceanDrive2
29-11-2005, 18:57
To answer your other question diplomatic immunity means that diplomats can't be arrested, charged, or tried.read the question again...and you may notice that I never wrote the word "diplomatic".
Deep Kimchi
29-11-2005, 18:57
It means that she is immune to monarchs, poison and 'Swords of Mighty Burning +17'.:)

That vorpal blade will bounce off, too...
Deep Kimchi
29-11-2005, 18:58
read the question again...and you may notice that I never wrote the word "diplomatic".
sovereign immunity = diplomatic immunity

"speaking on behalf of the ruler"
Deep Kimchi
29-11-2005, 18:59
I might add that egregious violations of diplomatic immunity have historically been considered acts of war.
OceanDrive2
29-11-2005, 19:25
It means that she is immune to monarchs, poison and 'Swords of Mighty Burning +17'.:):D

probaly inmune to Amsterdam brownies...and Berlin nakid dancers too
OceanDrive2
29-11-2005, 19:27
I might add that egregious violations of diplomatic immunity have historically been considered acts of war.would "accidentally" killing CIA agents be considered an act of war too?
Deep Kimchi
29-11-2005, 19:29
would "accidentally" killing CIA agents be considered an act of war too?
Nope. There's a thing called "disavowal". If they're doing something illegal, they're doing it under a false name.

BTW, perhaps you should be aware that the CIA rarely uses its own employees when it comes to getting the dirty jobs done. You should know by now that they hire all of that out.

Some of these governments might not want to investigate too closely - some of their own people or organizations might be involved. Very embarassing.
Limneach
29-11-2005, 19:35
I really hope there isn't one of these bases in Europe, having G.Bay in existence is bad enough.
Deep Kimchi
29-11-2005, 19:36
I really hope there isn't one of these bases in Europe, having G.Bay in existence is bad enough.
Apparently, investigators in Europe have already ruled that out.
Portu Cale MK3
29-11-2005, 19:40
Hey, sometimes even diplomats have car crashes o.o
Portu Cale MK3
29-11-2005, 19:42
Apparently, investigators in Europe have already ruled that out.


awww :(
Deep Kimchi
29-11-2005, 19:43
Hey, sometimes even diplomats have car crashes o.o
Plane crashes. Remember Ron Brown?
http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/usa/ron-brown/

Killed by the Clintons, according to some tinfoil hats...
DrunkenDove
29-11-2005, 19:43
Ok, lets stop with the talk of killling diplomats and CIA agents right now. Us Europeans don't even excute serial killers.
Deep Kimchi
29-11-2005, 19:45
Ok, lets stop with the talk of killling diplomats and CIA agents right now. Us Europeans don't even excute serial killers.

You don't even use bad language...
Kefren
29-11-2005, 19:52
You don't even use bad language...

Well, we *are* a literate people :D
Frangland
29-11-2005, 20:02
I really hope there isn't one of these bases in Europe, having G.Bay in existence is bad enough.

that's right, we should house terrorists in the united states or, better yet, let them go.
DrunkenDove
29-11-2005, 20:16
that's right, we should house terrorists in the united states or, better yet, let them go.

Can you give a decent reason for not imprisioning them in the US other than that they would have right to a trial?
Deep Kimchi
29-11-2005, 20:18
Can you give a decent reason for not imprisioning them in the US other than that they would have right to a trial?

I don't know. Why don't we ask the German government why, during the Cold War, it assisted the US in the torture (often to death) of Ukranian defectors? On the idea that the only people who could escape 1950s era USSR were planted spies?
Portu Cale MK3
29-11-2005, 20:30
I don't know. Why don't we ask the German government why, during the Cold War, it assisted the US in the torture (often to death) of Ukranian defectors? On the idea that the only people who could escape 1950s era USSR were planted spies?


Exactly! WE HELPED. This time, you guys have all the fun and don't even tell us? That like, sucks :( Then you guys want us to be friends and all :(
Galloism
29-11-2005, 20:43
Completely off topic...

Does anyone else get an sql error trying to load the first page of this thread?