NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm sure we're all quite sick and tired of hearing debates about working mothers, and how they're all secretly unhappy because they'd rather be at home with the babies. We've all heard far more than we care to about how women are "trying to find a balance" between careers and home life. Most of us are probably numb to such discussions at this point, because we've long since memorized all the talking points that will come up.

But we never seem to talk about the guys. And I think they need attention.

So how about it, fellows? When you start a family, are you planning to continue your career or stay home with your children?

Is that choice even economically available to you, or are you among the majority of parents who cannot afford the luxury of choosing to stay home from work?

Are you concerned that if you continue your professional life outside the home you will be failing as a father?

Do you believe that working while having a family means that you will be only a "part-time parent"?

Are you secretly guilty about your desire to "have it all" by starting a family and still continuing your career?

Or do you feel that you are unable to stay at home with your family because of the criticism you will receive?

Are you displeased by the fact that traditional "manhood" requires you to be a detatched provider rather than an involved and nurturing parent?

Do you feel your partner would be hostile or resistent to the notion of you being the stay-at-home parent? Would she be eager/willing/able to assume the burden of primary economic provider?

Wouldn't worry me either way.

I'm sure we're all quite sick and tired of hearing debates about working mothers, and how they're all secretly unhappy because they'd rather be at home with the babies. We've all heard far more than we care to about how women are "trying to find a balance" between careers and home life. Most of us are probably numb to such discussions at this point, because we've long since memorized all the talking points that will come up.

But we never seem to talk about the guys. And I think they need attention.

So how about it, fellows? When you start a family, are you planning to continue your career or stay home with your children?

Is that choice even economically available to you, or are you among the majority of parents who cannot afford the luxury of choosing to stay home from work?

Are you concerned that if you continue your professional life outside the home you will be failing as a father?

Do you believe that working while having a family means that you will be only a "part-time parent"?

Are you secretly guilty about your desire to "have it all" by starting a family and still continuing your career?

Or do you feel that you are unable to stay at home with your family because of the criticism you will receive?

Are you displeased by the fact that traditional "manhood" requires you to be a detatched provider rather than an involved and nurturing parent?

Do you feel your partner would be hostile or resistent to the notion of you being the stay-at-home parent? Would she be eager/willing/able to assume the burden of primary economic provider?


I was a stay at home dad for three years.

Depends on your family background I guess.
Some hold to the traditional family setting more strongly than others.

I think that would be great.
And now for the spam part
How else am I supposed to brainwash them?

When you start a family, are you planning to continue your career or stay home with your children?

I only planned that either my spouse or I would stay home with the children. I never planned on which one of us it would be.

Is that choice even economically available to you, or are you among the majority of parents who cannot afford the luxury of choosing to stay home from work?

If I were to stay home, my wife would only make about half what I do currently. That would SERIOUSLY affect our ability to buy food, not to mention rent or utilities.

Are you concerned that if you continue your professional life outside the home you will be failing as a father?

No, that's just preposterous. We do what has to be done.

Do you believe that working while having a family means that you will be only a "part-time parent"?

No. I think about my kids all the time. My family is the reason I work. If it comes down to a choice, my boss knows which I will pick. I am definately a full time parent.

Are you secretly guilty about your desire to "have it all" by starting a family and still continuing your career?

No, that's just silly.

Or do you feel that you are unable to stay at home with your family because of the criticism you will receive?

Again, silly. I do what is best for my family. I don't care what anyone else thinks or says.

Are you displeased by the fact that traditional "manhood" requires you to be a detatched provider rather than an involved and nurturing parent?

Traditional manhood? Long ago I decided to examine why I believed what I did about different things. I decided that anything that I believed just because it has always been that way is a complete waste of time. You should know why you feel the way you do about different things, and not think what you think just because that's what you've been told to think.

Do you feel your partner would be hostile or resistent to the notion of you being the stay-at-home parent? Would she be eager/willing/able to assume the burden of primary economic provider?

My partner would be eager to assume the burden, if only for the change of pace. I know she gets tired of being "stuck" in the house all the time and longs for human interaction with people above the age of 5 other than me. If she was able to make what I make right now, we'd switch. I would love to stay home, and she's ready to get out of the house a bit. Of course, I don't think that would last very long. I think she's forgotten how much more stressful it is to deal with all the stupidity out in "the real world." I support her fully in whatever she wants to do, and will help her in any way I can to accomplish her dreams and goals. I think that is part of what being a family is about.

Depends on who would work :)

Kids do better if one of the parents can stay home, doesn't matter which one.

If one of the two parents can make more money than the other OR if one of the two of them doesn't 'like' staying home with the kids as much as the other (short tempered etc.,) or if one is really into their career etc., then the other stays home.

If neither parent can stay home, that's too bad, but not the end of the world, the parents just have to try twice as hard when they are home to not be too tired to do the things they need to do for the kids (above and beyond, not just get the laundry done and the food cooked - but quality time, family time, homework time, socializing time etc.,) then it can all work out still.

Kids do better if one of the parents can stay home, doesn't matter which one.

Could you provide evidence for this assertion?

Could you provide evidence for this assertion?
My dad was a single parent and I turned out alright.

I am not a stay at home Father.

I would like to clear that up straight away.

Additionally I feel I have a strong duty to my children to provide them what they need. That is something that has been brought forward for me as I was raised, not that one as an individual provides everything. But that you and your partner do the best you can to provide for your children.

If my Wife or Girlfriend were to earn more than me, I wouldn't have a second thought for staying home. When that child rolls around (so to speak) I don't care what the situation is, I will do the best that is humanly possible to give them what I never had (and I had alot). In that respect it's not what I expect from my children, I don't expect goals bar one, to be happy. The same I imagine as most parents, if I can give them what they need to reach that goal then, as far as children are concerned: I could die a happy man.

Alot of guys are scared by children because of the responsibility, maybe with regard to growing up. I don't know about that, my worry is and always has been, can I give my children what they deserve?

Kids do better if one of the parents can stay home, doesn't matter which one.
I realise you aren't saying that working parents are bad...but this just triggered a nerve with me, since I recently had a mother tell me she couldn't understand how I could not make the 'better choice' and stay home. So consider this rant not directed at you:

That idea drives me nuts. "Do better"...as compared to what? Staying at home with a poor, rural mom, having no social interaction outside of your parent? Or staying home with super-mom, who whips her children around into language classes, music classes, dance lessons, and practices flash cards with them the rest of the day? OR having both parents working, and being in a loving, social environment until four, and then spending the rest of the day with parents who make the effort to interact as much as possible with their children?

Better is an awfully relative term. That's why it's a comparative and not a superlative.

My dad was a single parent and I turned out alright.
I'm just curious to see what the supports for his claim might be. I hear it said all the time (that kids do better with at least one stay-at-home parent), as though it were some kind of obvious truth, but I've never personally seen anything that supports it.

Of course, I don't mean to say that my anecdotal evidence is the be-all and end-all, so if somebody has solid information that contradicts my personal experience I will be more than willing to check it out.

Says you. That idea drives me nuts. "Do better"...as compared to what? Staying at home with a poor, rural mom, having no social interaction outside of your parent? Or staying home with super-mom, who whips her children around into language classes, music classes, dance lessons, and practices flash cards with them the rest of the day? OR having both parents working, and being in a loving, social environment until four, and then spending the rest of the day with parents who make the effort to interact as much as possible with their children?

Better is an awfully relative term. That's why it's a comparative and not a superlative.

It all depends on the quality of the parents, and the quality of their parenting - not so much as to who stays home, or if the kids are in child care.

If the parent who stays home is a high quality parent, and does high quality parenting, you get great results obviously. If the parent who stays home drinks and watches TV all day and ignores the children, you get lousy results.

At least in my experience, high quality parenting involves a lot of floor time with the children. And both parents can work and you'll still have one of the parents home at any one time.

At least in my experience, high quality parenting involves a lot of floor time with the children. And both parents can work and you'll still have one of the parents home at any one time.
I don't think even that is necessarily true. I had terrific parents, but I believe that I was better off being in daycare and latchkey programs than I would have been if either one was a stay-at-home parent. I was much better prepared for school, for socialization, and even for college because of my experiences in daycare programs. No matter how awesome my parents were--and they were awesome!--I think I would have lost out if I hadn't been in these programs.

I guess what I'm getting at is that I think the quality of parenting is ONE important part of the equation, but the quality of schools and daycare programs is another really important factor that most people overlook. If you have a great daycare program available to your kids, they might be better off going to that program instead of staying home with you, no matter how great a parent you are. Kind of like how having your kid go away to a really great summer camp is often a better idea than having them stay home with you during the summer, even if you are Supermom or Superdad.

Of course, the opposite is also true: if there's no decent daycare available for you, then even a relatively crappy parent might do better to stay home with their kids.

I realise you aren't saying that working parents are bad...but this just triggered a nerve with me, since I recently had a mother tell me she couldn't understand how I could not make the 'better choice' and stay home. So consider this rant not directed at you:

That idea drives me nuts. "Do better"...as compared to what? Staying at home with a poor, rural mom, having no social interaction outside of your parent? Or staying home with super-mom, who whips her children around into language classes, music classes, dance lessons, and practices flash cards with them the rest of the day? OR having both parents working, and being in a loving, social environment until four, and then spending the rest of the day with parents who make the effort to interact as much as possible with their children?

Better is an awfully relative term. That's why it's a comparative and not a superlative.

I think my kids do better when I stay home then if I don't (like during tax season) but I don't see it as evidence of how any kid would do in that situation.
Saying something like "kids do better if a parent stays home" doesn't really state anything but an opinion that can't really be backed up.

Kids are different (even kids from the same family) and parents are different, no 2 families are ever going to work exactly the same (or even similar)

I get from my friends who are working outside the home how thier kids do better and my kids would do better if I didn't stay home, it's crap, my kids and thier kids are different. You can't compare.

So how about it, fellows? When you start a family, are you planning to continue your career or stay home with your children?
not planning, but i'd have no problems with it if it were a viable option in practial terms

Is that choice even economically available to you, or are you among the majority of parents who cannot afford the luxury of choosing to stay home from work?
thats what i mean. in practical terms, it would be very nice to be able to do so, but quite probably not possible (i would imagine)

my own parents were never able to provide that luxury and both had to work (i had a nanny till i was 3...yay), but i sure would like to be able to be in a position where myeslf and future wife can discuss the issue. can't see that far into the future though (of course)...

Are you concerned that if you continue your professional life outside the home you will be failing as a father?
not explicitlly. in some ways, yes, but not wholly.
my parents had to work like i said but they always managed to make time for me, so it is possible to still have a career and be a good father (or mother). its a matter of priority.

Do you believe that working while having a family means that you will be only a "part-time parent"?
depends on the age we're talking about. once the kids go off to school its a different matter alltogether.
pre-school though, i think the answer's gotta be yes

Are you secretly guilty about your desire to "have it all" by starting a family and still continuing your career?
i think that's possible for the most part

Or do you feel that you are unable to stay at home with your family because of the criticism you will receive?
for what? :confused:

Are you displeased by the fact that traditional "manhood" requires you to be a detatched provider rather than an involved and nurturing parent?
i think thats a big load of BS and i couldn't care less what "traditional manhood" would have me do.

Do you feel your partner would be hostile or resistent to the notion of you being the stay-at-home parent? Would she be eager/willing/able to assume the burden of primary economic provider?
well again its a matter of practicalities. i guess it depends on who is earning more - if its me, then my partner would be the best choice to stay at home to look after the kid(s) in the pre-school years. if she's earning more, then the logical choice would be me to stay at home.
then there's the whole issue of preference - she might really, really want to stay at home and raise them, in which case that has to be considered too. i might really, really want to stay at home too of course :P (just can't tell yet)
as for resentment, i think that depends on said future wife...


frankly i don't think these are questions or issues that can be answered in generalities, but i don't have any specific problems with the notion of being a stay-at-home dad, no.

As I don't really have a career to speak of and the woman I hope to marry is a doctor, I think I'd be perfectly happy being a stay at home father. But seeing as how neither of us particularly want children, I probably won't have to.

Could you provide evidence for this assertion?

http://www.globalethics.org/newsline/members/issue.tmpl?articleid=05070123482335

I read an article recently in a parenting magazine...it was in the doctor's office, okay? Anyway:) This stay-at-home dad was talking about how such fathers are so few and far between that there is little support available to them in the community. Oh, they can still go to the Moms and Tots session...no one is going to kick them out, but there aren't the playdates, and coffee dates that he expected. He said he went out a few times with moms, but he felt kind of cut off being the only guy there. All good points, though there isn't much he can do until more dads stay at home, BUT:

I think it's about time we change some of the terminology of support. It shouldn't be Moms and Tots...even in my small time there are a few stay-at-home dads, and they have all voiced their concern that they don't feel welcome there...that it's a woman thing. I felt the same thing the other day, by the way, when my daughter has a 'day with dad' class in dance...what...I'm chopped liver? My husband was away working, and I couldn't stand in for him...so she had to be one of the only girls without a parent there? That pissed me off.

There is plenty of literature out there on post-partum depression...but that kind of thing affects the man too, in terms of the stress of the new situation and responsibility, if not hormonally. Yet there is very little in terms of community help, pamphlets or attention for men in this situation, and I understand it has more to do with lack of need (or less need) than any discrimination. I simply hope that as more dads choose this route, of being the primary caregiver, that the services evolve as well, even if their numbers are significantly lower than women for a while.

It all depends on the quality of the parents, and the quality of their parenting - not so much as to who stays home, or if the kids are in child care. YES.

If the parent who stays home is a high quality parent, and does high quality parenting, you get great results obviously. If the parent who stays home drinks and watches TV all day and ignores the children, you get lousy results.

At least in my experience, high quality parenting involves a lot of floor time with the children. And both parents can work and you'll still have one of the parents home at any one time.
Thank you. There are no absolutes here...and I think it's dangerous to pressure people according to a belief that really isn't substantiated. (and I'm sorry, but there are so many variables at work here, including the quality of dayhomes and daycares etc, that I'm not about to buy some 'study' on this) I'm a MUCH better parent when I've had the chance to work during the day, and let my creative juices flow (hush Kimchi, no dirty remarks okay?), and have had some adult social interaction (ditto). When I stay at home all day, I find I have little energy for the second half...the afternoon/evening part of the day. Coming home from work, I'm excited to see the kids, they're excited to see me, and they show me what they've been playing at all day, and we run around like idiots, screaming our heads off and having fun. The other me, the tired from seeing them all day me, sits on the couch like a catatonic. Guess which me the kids prefer?

I already am a stay-at-home dad. I was laid off from my job shortly before my son was born, so I didn't have to worry about leaving my job - it had already left me. My wife has a well-paying and very secure job, so we don't have to worry about where the money is coming from - we have less than we did before, certainly, but we still have enough. As for what it's doing to my career, that's no big deal to me since I was considering a career change anyway. Once our son (and our possible second child - we do hope to have another) is in school, I may go back to school myself and get another degree. But I have a few years to think about that.

And on a personal level, it's great. My wife says she feels much better about going back to work knowing that I'm home with our son. And I love it. The hours are a bit rough (I'm basically on call 24/7), but so far I can handle that (and it's much better now that my son sleeps through the night.) My son is healthy and happy, my wife tells me that I'm obviously doing a great job, and I get to hang out all day with a really cool little person. It's been lots of fun watching him grow and learn. (And his first word was "Dada"!:D)

It's too bad that such a large segment of our culture looks down on child care as somehow being a lowly task. Raising my son is the most important thing I can think of doing.

I realize not everyone is in a position where they can stay home with their children, but I strongly encourage those of you who can to consider it.

Try being the only dad at any get together for toddlers or small children. My first wife initially (before the pregnancy) wanted to have a child (or so she said), but lost ALL interest after the child was born. I got to be Mom and Dad at the same time, for the first six years of my daughter's life.

I was perpetually the ONLY male present at birthday parties, play days, etc. I didn't mind - but the women sure seemed annoyed. I was frozen out of all conversation from the start.

I was the only Dad taking his girl to Brownies. I get the impression that a lot of Dads don't do much with their kids.

for what? :confused:

The criticism I was refering to was the culture pressures some men feel regarding "stay-at-home fatherhood." Some stay-at-home dads feel that they are regarded as "womanish" (which is a bad thing, for some reason), or that other people see them as failures for not prioritizing their careers.

Now, I'm not saying that men should let this kind of crap scare them away from stay-at-home parenting. But it's still a consideration, just like when women face criticism for career/family choices. The only real difference is that it's pretty much one-directional for men, since men are virtually never criticized for putting career ahead of family, while women are criticized either for being "bad feminists" when they stay at home or for being "bad mothers" if they go to work. Either way it stinks, because it's all about society telling you that your family must conform to a certain model no matter what your personal situation may be.

http://www.globalethics.org/newsline/members/issue.tmpl?articleid=05070123482335
This is not support, it's a bunch of people's OPINIONS about parenting. You're taking OPINIONS as facts now?

Age, gender, and ideology seem to influence belief that one parent should work part time, or work at home, Gallup reports

http://www.globalethics.org/newsline/members/issue.tmpl?articleid=05070123482335
Forgive me, but I don't see how that backs up your claim. It mostly deals with people's OPINIONS on the subject, not on the actual impact of different parenting models. There is one link to a study that suggests daycare kids might be more rowdy in kindergarten, but I cannot believe you would base a claim like "it's best for all kids to have at least one stay-at-home parent" on such flimsy support.

This is not support, it's a bunch of people's OPINIONS about parenting. You're taking OPINIONS as facts now?
Yes, and notice that men are much more keen on the notion of having a stay-at-home parent...too bad the link doesn't follow up by asking those men which parent they will expect to do the staying-at-home :).

That's what I'm here for!

And on a personal level, it's great. My wife says she feels much better about going back to work knowing that I'm home with our son. And I love it. The hours are a bit rough (I'm basically on call 24/7), but so far I can handle that (and it's much better now that my son sleeps through the night.) My son is healthy and happy, my wife tells me that I'm obviously doing a great job, and I get to hang out all day with a really cool little person. It's been lots of fun watching him grow and learn. (And his first word was "Dada"!:D)

It's too bad that such a large segment of our culture looks down on child care as somehow being a lowly task. Raising my son is the most important thing I can think of doing.

I realize not everyone is in a position where they can stay home with their children, but I strongly encourage those of you who can to consider it.

Thank you. I bet I don't get near as much crap from people for being a stay at home mom, but I really wish more people didn't look at me like I was a maid or something.

I think raising my kids is an important job, and for some reason some people hear that and think that I am less of a woman.:(

I know it is going to sound like a double standard or something, but maybe if more stay at home dads stood up and said "Hey this is hard work, important work, but very hard work" then they would respect all the stay at home parents a little bit more.

I'm sure we're all quite sick and tired of hearing debates about working mothers, and how they're all secretly unhappy because they'd rather be at home with the babies. We've all heard far more than we care to about how women are "trying to find a balance" between careers and home life. Most of us are probably numb to such discussions at this point, because we've long since memorized all the talking points that will come up.

But we never seem to talk about the guys. And I think they need attention.

So how about it, fellows? When you start a family, are you planning to continue your career or stay home with your children?

Is that choice even economically available to you, or are you among the majority of parents who cannot afford the luxury of choosing to stay home from work?

Are you concerned that if you continue your professional life outside the home you will be failing as a father?

Do you believe that working while having a family means that you will be only a "part-time parent"?

Are you secretly guilty about your desire to "have it all" by starting a family and still continuing your career?

Or do you feel that you are unable to stay at home with your family because of the criticism you will receive?

Are you displeased by the fact that traditional "manhood" requires you to be a detatched provider rather than an involved and nurturing parent?

Do you feel your partner would be hostile or resistent to the notion of you being the stay-at-home parent? Would she be eager/willing/able to assume the burden of primary economic provider? Answer 1: At this time I continue to be the primary income provider for my family. Answer 2: To follow up with the response to Q1, I cannot afford not to work so it is not a viable option at this point. Answer 3: I certainly do not belive that by working I'm failing as a father. However, to add to this is the fact that I'm divorced and do not have custody (not by my choice rather it was the court that screwed me as well as my ex-in laws). Answer 4: I do not believe that I'm a part-time parent other than the fact that I do not have full time with my daughter. Answer 5: I do not feel guilty in the least as I want to be able to provide everything that I can for my little girl and unfortunately that requires money. Answer 6: I couldn't care at all about how others view me when it comes to how I interact with my family. If it were fully up to me, I would spend every available moment with my daughter. Answer 7: Again, as stated, whatever tradition has to say means nothing to me. I provide because I can. I would work the crappiest job there was in order to make sure that my daughter had the necessities of life. To have my life dictated by societial norms is foolish and does little for ones self esteem or happiness.

Yes, and notice that men are much more keen on the notion of having a stay-at-home parent...too bad the link doesn't follow up by asking those men which parent they will expect to do the staying-at-home :).

That's what I'm here for!

I wasn't keen on anyone being the stay at home parent until I had done it myself.

This is not support, it's a bunch of people's OPINIONS about parenting. You're taking OPINIONS as facts now?

They are not ALL opinions. But the studies results are inserted in there and the opinions of those studies can be found elsewhere...

I didn't make the assertion that you have to stay home, but I will assert that you have to try twice as hard when you are home with the child to make up for lost time. For example, a 6 week old is still 'bonding' (meaning literally, not some mystical pretty as a flower crap, but 'bonding' for brain development phasing), and a 6 month old is NOT benefiting from socializing away from their parent yet, and a 6 year old STILL benefits from having a home with a parent that can immediately meet their needs directly after getting off of the proverbial school bus.

WAITING and saving is not in a young child's arsenal of abilities. If a punishment for bad behavior comes too late, it looses it's effectiveness, if a carrot for good behavior comes too late, it looses it effectiveness just as well.

Again, I'm not saying YOU have to stay home. I don't know YOU and your situation, I can't make that determination for you.

If a new to you co-worker came up and asked you to loan them your car, would you? If you hesitate to risk your car, why wouldn't you equally hesitate to allow them the responsibility of watching your kid?

Kid's statistically do 'better' with their parent (s), like it or not, that's not my fault.

I would love to do so, if I eventually marry, which I'd like to. Get things done around the house, play with the kids and teach them things. But I think I might have to become a gold digger to make it happen.

They are not ALL opinions. But the studies results are inserted in there and the opinions of those studies can be found elsewhere...

Kid's statistically do 'better' with their parent (s), like it or not, that's not my fault.
Please present this evidence.

They are not ALL opinions. But the studies results are inserted in there and the opinions of those studies can be found elsewhere... I really am not interested. Agressive and disobedient are very subjective terms...and unless they can somehow prove what a child's demeanor would have been like had they done the opposite (either stayed at home or gone to daycare), their findings are pure speculation.

I didn't make the assertion that you have to stay home, but I will assert that you have to try twice as hard when you are home with the child to make up for lost time. For example, a 6 week old is still 'bonding' (meaning literally, not some mystical pretty as a flower crap, but 'bonding' for brain development phasing), and a 6 month old is NOT benefiting from socializing away from their parent yet, and a 6 year old STILL benefits from having a home with a parent that can immediately meet their needs directly after getting off of the proverbial school bus. I agree. Which is why I very much support parental leave for at least a year...that initial year of bonding does make a big impact on your kid in terms of their physical and nuerological development. Nonetheless, a good dayhome or daycare CAN provide the necessary stimulation as well. It really depends. I choose a dayhome, because my kids have more interaction with their caregiver, and each other, than they would in the crowded daycare. Less structured games, perhaps, but I like it like that...it's more natural. But I had to really look into the options first, and luckily for us, there WERE options.

You should go after those folks who think that maternity leave or parental leave is unfair. Those people really piss me off.

As for parental interaction for a six year old, the second they walk off the bus...no, not necessarily is this imperative. The kid needs to eat, relax, do homework or whatever...that time, even if mom or dad is home, is not always going to be one-on-one time, nor does it have to be at that age.

WAITING and saving is not in a young child's arsenal of abilities. If a punishment for bad behavior comes too late, it looses it's effectiveness, if a carrot for good behavior comes too late, it looses it effectiveness just as well.

Again, I'm not saying YOU have to stay home. I don't know YOU and your situation, I can't make that determination for you.

If a new to you co-worker came up and asked you to loan them your car, would you? If you hesitate to risk your car, why wouldn't you equally hesitate to allow them the responsibility of watching your kid? Huh? Where did you get the idea that I would let a complete stranger, one who I have not interviewed or checked up on, to watch my kids?

Kid's statistically do 'better' with their parent (s), like it or not, that's not my fault.
You've still YET TO PROVE THIS ASSERTATION. Your little studies do NOT provide the statistics you speak of. Try again, or admit that you're personal opinion, or even the opinions of many, is NOT FACT.

Thank you. I bet I don't get near as much crap from people for being a stay at home mom, but I really wish more people didn't look at me like I was a maid or something.

I think raising my kids is an important job, and for some reason some people hear that and think that I am less of a woman.:(

I know it is going to sound like a double standard or something, but maybe if more stay at home dads stood up and said "Hey this is hard work, important work, but very hard work" then they would respect all the stay at home parents a little bit more.

Did not do me any good to say that at all. Criticism from all sides (why aren't you working?). And whenever I went to any communal child function (birthday party, etc), the women instantly thought I was a loser or a child molester.

Did not do me any good to say that at all. Criticism from all sides (why aren't you working?). And whenever I went to any communal child function (birthday party, etc), the women instantly thought I was a loser or a child molester.
all I can say is I have full respect for you, there is one stay at home dad in our group, and we try to go out of our way to make him feel comfortable, it's hard enough being a stay at home parent and get criticism from the "workers" but to get it from the stay at home crowd too. Just do what I do, repeat "I am doing this because I love my kid" and see if maybe you can tune out the rest of it.




* not that working parents don't love thier kids too, I mean you gotta love them to get up and deal with all the stupid crap that goes on in the workforce.

And whenever I went to any communal child function (birthday party, etc), the women instantly thought I was a loser or a child molester.
Yeah, that's kind of sad, but it's a hard thought to avoid. I'll admit, when scanning profiles for nannies, I immediately discarded all male applicants. Intellectually, I know I shouldn't be...but emotionally, I'm not willing to risk it. Ouch. My bias is showing.:(

Yeah, that's kind of sad, but it's a hard thought to avoid. I'll admit, when scanning profiles for nannies, I immediately discarded all male applicants. Intellectually, I know I shouldn't be...but emotionally, I'm not willing to risk it. Ouch. My bias is showing.:(

My wife and I work in the nursery at church. Their insurance policy forbids having men work alone with children of any age. So if my wife doesn't work in the nursery, then I don't either.

Strange world we live in.

You've still YET TO PROVE THIS ASSERTATION. Your little studies do NOT provide the statistics you speak of. Try again, or admit that you're personal opinion, or even the opinions of many, is NOT FACT.

Now I don't have to answer it...
I agree. Which is why I very much support parental leave for at least a year...that initial year of bonding does make a big impact on your kid in terms of their physical and nuerological development.

You answered it.

You should go after those folks who think that maternity leave or parental leave is unfair. Those people really piss me off.

'I' didn't go after anyone, not in this thread, I answered the OP, about stay at homes and Dads AND I even gave people an 'out' saying that people don't 'have' to stay home, but that they have to 'work' harder to make up for it, if that's your objection, then fine, whatever.

As for parental interaction for a six year old, the second they walk off the bus...no, not necessarily is this imperative. The kid needs to eat, relax, do homework or whatever...that time, even if mom or dad is home, is not always going to be one-on-one time, nor does it have to be at that age.

I didn't say it was imperative, I said it was 'better.'

Huh? Where did you get the idea that I would let a complete stranger, one who I have not interviewed or checked up on, to watch my kids?

I didn't say a complete stranger, I said, a new to you co-worker, which is exactly what a day-care worker is when you first hire them.

My wife and I work in the nursery at church. Their insurance policy forbids having men work alone with children of any age. So if my wife doesn't work in the nursery, then I don't either.

Strange world we live in.
It's sad because most people seem to believe that the only reason a man would want to be alone with a child is if he were going to try to hurt the child. Kind of like how people assume that the only reason a man would want to be alone with a woman would be if he were trying to have sex with her.

A lot of guys don't realize how much MEN suffer from crappy male-dominance stereotypes...this is yet another reason why men should support feminist efforts, because feminists want to knock down the negative stereotypes and misconceptions about men and fatherhood.

It's sad because most people seem to believe that the only reason a man would want to be alone with a child is if he were going to try to hurt the child. Kind of like how people assume that the only reason a man would want to be alone with a woman would be if he were trying to have sex with her.

A lot of guys don't realize how much MEN suffer from crappy male-dominance stereotypes...this is yet another reason why men should support feminist efforts, because feminists want to knock down the negative stereotypes and misconceptions about men and fatherhood.

That also shafts a lot of women into childcare roles.

That also shafts a lot of women into childcare roles.
Hell yeah. When my extended family used to get together, all the grown ups assumed that I (being a female adolescent) would just LOVE to be in charge of the little kids. Of course, not only do I not like children, but I'm also impatient, rude, and stubborn...exactly the traits you would not want in a care-giver. My older male cousins were teased if they helped out with the "baby-sitting," even if they were doing a better job of it and having a better time. The result? I was unhappy, my older male cousins were unhappy, and the little kids were getting crappy babysitting from an uninterested and grumpy Bottle.

What is "shafting" about it? I really don't get this issue at all.

If you can afford to and want to, either parent can do this. It is less socially acceptable, still, for a man to do it, but it is by no means seen as abnormal anymore.

If you can't afford to, then both of you work. You don't like it, but you do.

If you want to have children, what is odd about wanting to be with them?

The bit I don't get is when well off families have a nanny from word go. What on earth is the point of having kids if you don't want to spend time with them?

Example of shafting:

The church needs volunteers to work in the nursery (there are an average of six babies, so you need two or three people per service).

They explicitly ask for women, and women feel pressured to do it. I was the only man who volunteered, and insurance regulations required that my wife volunteer as well.

I'm a single father, but I'd gladly be a stay-at-home dad if I were wealthy enough to avoid having to work. Of course, that's not an issue so much anymore since my daughter is in her mid-teens, and she hardly needs me at home like she did when she was five.

Hell yeah. When my extended family used to get together, all the grown ups assumed that I (being a female adolescent) would just LOVE to be in charge of the little kids. Of course, not only do I not like children, but I'm also impatient, rude, and stubborn...exactly the traits you would not want in a care-giver. My older male cousins were teased if they helped out with the "baby-sitting," even if they were doing a better job of it and having a better time. The result? I was unhappy, my older male cousins were unhappy, and the little kids were getting crappy babysitting from an uninterested and grumpy Bottle.

So THAT's what happened to you! LMAO :p :D

Now I don't have to answer it...


You answered it. No, I agreed that that initial bonding period is important. It doesn't HAVE to be with the parent though. The child needs to be held and spoken to, as well as having other forms of stimulation in order to form the neural connections in their brain necessary for future development. That stimulation can be provided fairly easily. Staying home on parental leave is not the same as staying home for years though...the assumption is that you will be returning to work. What you are assuming is that if the parent doesn't stay home that first year, that the child will somehow be deprived. That is not necessarily so.



'I' didn't go after anyone, not in this thread, I answered the OP, about stay at homes and Dads AND I even gave people an 'out' saying that people don't 'have' to stay home, but that they have to 'work' harder to make up for it, if that's your objection, then fine, whatever. Oh don't get me wrong...I'm not accusing you of 'going after' anyone...I'm saying that I'd back you up if you did 'go after' people who think parental leave should be abolished:) I'm egging you on, not calling you down.



I didn't say it was imperative, I said it was 'better.' But you can't prove that. Again, better is a comparative, and is subjective, depending on many factors.



I didn't say a complete stranger, I said, a new to you co-worker, which is exactly what a day-care worker is when you first hire them.
No, not really. I know nothing about my coworkers except from what I glean as I interact with them. I interviewed my dayhome woman, checked all her references, ensured that she had the relevant training, and I constantly monitor my children's wellbeing. I talk with my dayhome woman in the morning, and in the afternoon, sometimes for an hour or two (afternoon that, not morning, where I'm confined to 15 mintues at the most:)), and we discuss our child-raising philosophies. I know her pretty well, as opposed to my coworkers. I developed that relationship early on, within the first week. Now, not everyone is going to go to those lengths to get to know their child's caregiver. But that is why this issue varies from person to person so much.

You haven't PROVEN anything, except that infants need stimulation. And I'm taking that as a given, as I've seen extensive research on this issue. However, it is NOT necessary that a parent stay home and provide this stimulation.

No, I agreed that that initial bonding period is important. It doesn't HAVE to be with the parent though. The child needs to be held and spoken to, as well as having other forms of stimulation in order to form the neural connections in their brain necessary for future development. That stimulation can be provided fairly easily.

Yes, it is true, as we have both been reading. Now ask yourself 'why.' Do they only need brain stimulation like a new computer having is OS installed, OR do they need 'bonding' with the parent, the person who they need to be able to interact with for the rest of their lives? If they 'bond' with a temporary adult, what happens when that adult is removed? Would you like to see some divorce statistics and statistics of children who have lost their parents? Bonding with the 'right' adult (s) is important, although, for now, I'll concede that it's my opinion as far as 'proof' goes.

However, there ARE proofs of 'what' is statistically better, and what I mean of it.

*In 2002, 7 percent of births to married mothers were low birthweight, compared with 10 percent of births to unmarried mothers. In that same year, the infant mortality rate for infants born to married mothers was 5 per 1,000 live births, compared with 10 per 1,000 live births for infants born to unmarried mothers.

*Pooled data from 1996 and 2001 show that 97 percent of adolescents ages 15–17 who lived with their married, biological parents were enrolled in school, compared with 94 percent of adolescents who lived with a single parent, and 80 percent of adolescents who lived with neither parent.

*According to pooled data from 1996 and 2001, 86 percent of adolescents ages 15–17 who lived with their married, biological parents, were reported to be in excellent or very good health, compared with 80 percent of adolescents who lived with a married stepparent, 76 percent of those who lived with a single parent, and 67 percent of those who lived with neither parent.

*Pooled data from 1996 and 2001 show that 2 percent of all females ages 15–17 who lived with their married biological parents became unmarried mothers by age 17–19, compared with 9 percent of those who lived with a single parent, and 27 percent of those who did not live with either parent.

http://www.childstats.gov/americaschildren/index.asp

So THAT's what happened to you! LMAO :p :D
Huh?

Are you trying to imply that the reason I dislike enforced traditional gender roles is because I have personally witnessed how ineffective and pointless they are? If so, why laugh?

Or are you, perhaps, attempting to chuckle away my objections to enforced stay-at-home parenting because of my personal dislike for children? Because that would be equally pointless...my dislike of children leads me to conclude I should not have any of my own, but it does not determine my views on family structure in the general sphere. I also am quite able to separate my personal feelings on kids from objective information about healthy parenting methods.

Huh?

Are you trying to imply that the reason I dislike enforced traditional gender roles is because I have personally witnessed how ineffective and pointless they are? If so, why laugh?

Or are you, perhaps, attempting to chuckle away my objections to enforced stay-at-home parenting because of my personal dislike for children? Because that would be equally pointless...my dislike of children leads me to conclude I should not have any of my own, but it does not determine my views on family structure in the general sphere. I also am quite able to separate my personal feelings on kids from objective information about healthy parenting methods.

Nope, that's not what I meant. :p

*buys bottle a beer*

Have a few sips, it'll be alright. ;)

You guys really want me to have kids? That's the real question here...lol

I work from home. I'm here for everything from getting two boys-7 and 12- up every morning at 6am, making them breakfast then making them lunch to take to school. Taking them to the bus stop at different times, then picking them up after school. Snacks and help with home work. The whole family usually pitches in for getting dinner ready, as well as clean up. I also take a large part in my 2 yr old daughter's day- playing-diaper changes as needed, lunch.
I'm here for everything. And I somehow manage to get a 50 or so hour work week in too, while I renovate my house inside and out. My wife and I share everything here-there are few duties I dont do and few she doesnt do. I still cant fold laundry well-though I do wash and dry most of our wash.
I dont expect her to change oil in the cars, clean gutters or cut down trees and split wood.

Yes, I'd like to be a stay at home dad. My girlfriend currently earns more money than me, so who knows, it may happen.

I'm sure we're all quite sick and tired of hearing debates about working mothers, and how they're all secretly unhappy because they'd rather be at home with the babies. We've all heard far more than we care to about how women are "trying to find a balance" between careers and home life. Most of us are probably numb to such discussions at this point, because we've long since memorized all the talking points that will come up.

But we never seem to talk about the guys. And I think they need attention.

So how about it, fellows? When you start a family, are you planning to continue your career or stay home with your children?

Is that choice even economically available to you, or are you among the majority of parents who cannot afford the luxury of choosing to stay home from work?

Are you concerned that if you continue your professional life outside the home you will be failing as a father?

Do you believe that working while having a family means that you will be only a "part-time parent"?

Are you secretly guilty about your desire to "have it all" by starting a family and still continuing your career?

Or do you feel that you are unable to stay at home with your family because of the criticism you will receive?

Are you displeased by the fact that traditional "manhood" requires you to be a detatched provider rather than an involved and nurturing parent?

Do you feel your partner would be hostile or resistent to the notion of you being the stay-at-home parent? Would she be eager/willing/able to assume the burden of primary economic provider?

my ex wife when on a crack binge...and never came home....i got 2 kids,1 in college and 1 in highschool...so that makes me the ultimate pos man i suppose,according to the feminists...but screw them if they even like men,i am happy...but poor...can i get child support...l;ol...or does that only work for women?

my ex wife when on a crack binge...and never came home....i got 2 kids,1 in college and 1 in highschool...so that makes me the ultimate pos man i suppose,according to the feminists...but screw them if they even like men,i am happy...but poor...can i get child support...l;ol...or does that only work for women?

that came out bitter or mad,not my intent,i am just opposed to the double standard is all...
ask me...lol...i am super dad

I'm sure we're all quite sick and tired of hearing debates about working mothers, and how they're all secretly unhappy because they'd rather be at home with the babies. We've all heard far more than we care to about how women are "trying to find a balance" between careers and home life. Most of us are probably numb to such discussions at this point, because we've long since memorized all the talking points that will come up. Secretly wanting to be housewives? I've heard no such thing.So how about it, fellows? When you start a family, are you planning to continue your career or stay home with your children? I doubt I'll have children, but I might consider being a stay-at-home-dad if it becomes relevant.Is that choice even economically available to you, or are you among the majority of parents who cannot afford the luxury of choosing to stay home from work? I'm probably among the majority who can't afford to stay at home.Are you concerned that if you continue your professional life outside the home you will be failing as a father? I doubt it.Do you believe that working while having a family means that you will be only a "part-time parent"? Depends on the work & the hours.Are you secretly guilty about your desire to "have it all" by starting a family and still continuing your career?Eh... People have worked their collective arses off since the dawn of mankind & had plenty of children all the while. What's there to feel guilty about?Or do you feel that you are unable to stay at home with your family because of the criticism you will receive? What criticism? And for what?Are you displeased by the fact that traditional "manhood" requires you to be a detatched provider rather than an involved and nurturing parent? I don't give a toss.Do you feel your partner would be hostile or resistent to the notion of you being the stay-at-home parent? Would she be eager/willing/able to assume the burden of primary economic provider?Assuming my partners income resembles my current, and mine stays the same, s/he'd be opposed to any of us not working, but then, so would I.

Where's the controversy?

I'm just curious to see what the supports for his claim might be. I hear it said all the time (that kids do better with at least one stay-at-home parent), as though it were some kind of obvious truth, but I've never personally seen anything that supports it.

Of course, I don't mean to say that my anecdotal evidence is the be-all and end-all, so if somebody has solid information that contradicts my personal experience I will be more than willing to check it out.
Well, I went to the South Pole. Then the North Pole. Then invented cheap fusion. Then got my PhD one year later at the age of eight.

I'm on this forum. That's proof enough isn't it?

As long as both parents give affection to the child, and one of the two takes some time to rear it, then I see no problem with who stays at home to raise it during its infancy. This is the 21st century after all. I hope we have evolved past genderial preconceptions. One thing to keep in mind though, is that the mother should maintain a link of close affection with the child at all times, even if the father (or a hired caretaker or some relative) is involved in its rearing by spending time with it every day. As should the father in any case.