NationStates Jolt Archive

For those behind, thread dedicated to imperial era of Germany

I will check for a direct heir.

Great :) Lets not post too much tonight, as it is late. We could get it going tomorrow night.

You mean the Second Reich?
In that case, I happen to know a family descended from the Kaisers. They live in Texas.:D

Yes, indeed. The glorious Second Reich :)

i think he died
http://www.eurohistory.com/hohenzollernheir.html

but
http://www.friesian.com/deutsch.htm

this is fuzzy and i cant find a descendant

i say we bump tomorrow and go from there. i'll research more and post what i find

so far though, very little :headbang:

eh, to tomorrow

EDIT: Second Reich, oh the Second Reich!

For those behind, thread dedicated to imperial era of Germany

I will check for a direct heir.

A direct heir as in the heir to the throne of the German Empire? It's Prince Georg Friedrich Ferdinand of Prussia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Georg_Friedrich_of_Prussia).

Chances of his actually gaining the throne of a restored German empire: Approximately 0.

:p

See you tomorrow then :) See what you can find. I am sure there are other possible heirs to the title.

A direct heir as in the heir to the throne of the German Empire? It's Prince Georg Friedrich Ferdinand of Prussia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Georg_Friedrich_of_Prussia).

Chances of his actually gaining the throne of a restored German empire: Approximately 0.

:p

hnh, though granddad died with no kids

tomorrow

hnh, though granddad died with no kids

tomorrow

OK then, here's a question for tomorrow: How, exactly, does one become a grandfather if one dies without having had any children? :confused:

Germany needs its Kaiser back period, Germans democracy is a complete disaester, and the Germans are still imperially conditioned, when the Fire Alarm goes off the Germans won't evacuate until the Fire Department or Government tells them too, on and on, they are one of the people who are just not compatible to anything but Dictatorship and Monarchys no matter what they believe and how hard they try :headbang:

Germany needs its Kaiser back period, Germans democracy is a complete disaester, and the Germans are still imperially conditioned, when the Fire Alarm goes off the Germans won't evacuate until the Fire Department or Government tells them too, on and on, they are one of the people who are just not compatible to anything but Dictatorship and Monarchys no matter what they believe and how hard they try :headbang:

I do hope you're joking.

OK then, here's a question for tomorrow: How, exactly, does one become a grandfather if one dies without having had any children? :confused:
It's rather difficult! The father-son descent from Kaisar Wilhelm II to Georg Fredrich is :

Wilhelm II (b.1859, Kaisar 1888-1918, d.1941)
> Crown Prince Wilhelm (b.1882 d.1951)
>> Prince Louis Ferdinand (b.1907 d.1994)
>>> Prince Louis Ferdinand (b.1944 d.1977)
>>>> Prince Georg Friedrich (b.1976)

For those behind, thread dedicated to imperial era of Germany

I will check for a direct heir.

I knew a guy named Mike Fleckenstein...

My ex is actually related to Wilhelm the II of Prussia. No lie.

My ex is actually related to Wilhelm the II of Prussia. No lie.
I bow to Your Royal Highness.

I bow to Your Royal Highness.

Lol...well as shes my ex she wouldnt be my royal highness wouls she? lol:p

Although....to be honest, I didnt know of her background until after I broke up with her...you see one day we were talking off backgrounds (a year or so after we broke up) and we both happend to be of Prussian/German background...then she dropped it on me, and well you have to admit...thats pretty damn cool.

Germany needs its Kaiser back period, Germans democracy is a complete disaester, and the Germans are still imperially conditioned, when the Fire Alarm goes off the Germans won't evacuate until the Fire Department or Government tells them too, on and on, they are one of the people who are just not compatible to anything but Dictatorship and Monarchys no matter what they believe and how hard they try :headbang:

Haha...yeah Germans are like that. But its more Northern Germans than Bavarians. However, even though they are like this...I would never suggest anything but a democratic government for them.

Haha...yeah Germans are like that. But its more Northern Germans than Bavarians. However, even though they are like this...I would never suggest anything but a democratic government for them.


Yeah, the Prussian conditioned ones (the Germans famous for apologising for even being 1 minute late, all Germans except Bavarians, and varying degrees depending on scope of influence, but yes mostly Northern).


Yeah are you kidding I here, the news even tell you to go to the park when it is good weather, and al goverment officials are to be treated with respect (insulting a Polizei mann is not good....) . Any American living a longer time would say, 'damn we gave em democracy and freedom what da fuck did they do wit it' . Also all things must be solved by the State, doing things yourselves is frowned upon. And don't get me started on Bureacracy....

Well I would know best I am a German (grew up in da USA, hence me not so conditioned). Hehe , the whole behavior of the German People is best compatible with a new Kaiser, that'll get things started and on a somewhat normal path again.

Yeah but lets keep democracy to be safe, we saw whacked out Austrian promising to take away all their rights managed, he got in power :headbang:

((( AlSO in case you eveer have dinner or a meeting with a German person, if you agree to meet at 3:00 , they will be there at 2:45 and frown at you for appearing only a second after 3:00 . Opposite of the Spanish, when they say 3:00 , you'll be lucky you see them by 4:30)))


(Yeah of course I am joking, being cynical and nihilistic at best)

Lol...well as shes my ex she wouldnt be my royal highness wouls she? lol:p

Although....to be honest, I didnt know of her background until after I broke up with her...you see one day we were talking off backgrounds (a year or so after we broke up) and we both happend to be of Prussian/German background...then she dropped it on me, and well you have to admit...thats pretty damn cool.

Actually, my "address" was directly to you: "your" as in "you". After all, the dater of royalty is royalty.
It is pretty damn cool.

Yeah, the Prussian conditioned ones (the Germans famous for apologising for even being 1 minute late, all Germans except Bavarians, and varying degrees depending on scope of influence, but yes mostly Northern).


Yeah are you kidding I here, the news even tell you to go to the park when it is good weather, and al goverment officials are to be treated with respect (insulting a Polizei mann is not good....) . Any American living a longer time would say, 'damn we gave em democracy and freedom what da fuck did they do wit it' . Also all things must be solved by the State, doing things yourselves is frowned upon. And don't get me started on Bureacracy....

Well I would know best I am a German (grew up in da USA, hence me not so conditioned). Hehe , the whole behavior of the German People is best compatible with a new Kaiser, that'll get things started and on a somewhat normal path again.

Yeah but lets keep democracy to be safe, we saw whacked out Austrian promising to take away all their rights managed, he got in power :headbang:

((( AlSO in case you eveer have dinner or a meeting with a German person, if you agree to meet at 3:00 , they will be there at 2:45 and frown at you for appearing only a second after 3:00 . Opposite of the Spanish, when they say 3:00 , you'll be lucky you see them by 4:30)))


(Yeah of course I am joking, being cynical and nihilistic at best)

Yes, yes, I know all this. My mom lived in Germany for a while and my mom and dad both traveled there many times during the 90's for business. I also know about this because I am of Prussian background. lol.

Actually, my "address" was directly to you: "your" as in "you". After all, the dater of royalty is royalty.
It is pretty damn cool.

Oh...lol thanks...I didnt catch that. Yeah, *sigh* maybe I should get back with her so I can marry into royalty. A Prussian Prince...:cool:

Oh...lol thanks...I didnt catch that. Yeah, *sigh* maybe I should get back with her so I can marry into royalty. A Prussian Prince...:cool:
Hush for now, my liege. Lest we reveal your plans to hungry ears and eyes out there. There will be time for all of these, but me must first gather support from our brothers, the White Russians and the Portuguese monarchists.

Yeah, the Prussian conditioned ones (the Germans famous for apologising for even being 1 minute late, all Germans except Bavarians, and varying degrees depending on scope of influence, but yes mostly Northern).
thats cause the southern ones are too drunk.... on a serious side, kinda makes me gald my ancesters left Prussia for Australia, 10 years before Germany was created.

OT, my sister is distantly related to the queen of britain. her grandmother used to get invites when royal tours happend.

Hush for now, my liege. Lest we reveal your plans to hungry ears and eyes out there. There will be time for all of these, but me must first gather support from our brothers, the White Russians and the Portuguese monarchists.

I like where you're going with this....;)

I'll be in contact with the Austrian Nationalists...;)

thats cause the southern ones are too drunk.... on a serious side, kinda makes me gald my ancesters left Prussia for Australia, 10 years before Germany was created.

OT, my sister is distantly related to the queen of britain. her grandmother used to get invites when royal tours happend.
My mom's family (and therefore my family) is supposedly related to the English royal line via a bastard child somewhere around the time of Henry VIII. I've never researched it, though.

Olara']My mom's family (and therefore my family) is supposedly related to the English royal line via a bastard child somewhere around the time of Henry VIII. I've never researched it, though.
with my sister, it is through the queen mother. the QM's name was Bowes-Lyon, and when, tracing back, my sister's father's family came to AU, they dropped the Bowes

If you want to restore 'imperial' Germany, try thinking about the Habsburgs!

Otto von Hapsburg, the son of the last emporer is still alive, so you can have a direct restoration like that in England with Charles the Second. He is also an accomplished politician, having served in the European Parliament. Furthermore, he was a dedicated oppent of facismus before,during and after the WWII and is a beleiver in democracy.

The Habsburgs are the only true German imperial dynasty. As the Holy Roman Emporers, they ruled over a united 'Greater Germany', including Austria. Furthermore, they are one of the oldest dynasties in Europe. The Hohenzollers began as their tax collectors in fact.

what? and follow a leader related to the leader that dragged germany into WWI in the first place? i think not

I think I should get back with my ex, take the throne of Prussia/Germany, create radical reforms such as abolishing the welfare state, expand big bussiness and re-creating the military...Make Germany a super power, ally it with the U.S., and become UNSTOPPABLE!!!!! then, of course, in the tradition of being a German........Invade Poland:cool:

what? and follow a leader related to the leader that dragged germany into WWI in the first place? i think not
Many leaders led their countries into war, as did Napoleon, Catherine the Great, Elisabeth I, Peter the Great, Alexander the Great etc. This does not detract from their grandeur in any way. Napoleon lost against Britain, yet he was a marvellous emperor. In any case, being related to someone does not mean you will act in accordance with their way of thinking. Its hardly hereditary. :rolleyes: In any case, the Habsburgs would make a much better monarchy, so the issue of relation is not even in question.

Germany does need a restoration of its monarchy, its elite and of its statesmen (and states-women), not useless politicians who sell themselves using their charisma. Blut und Ehre. If Austria, the White Russians and Portugal see it wise to restore their monarchs, all the better :) If France wisens up and institutes a new monarchy, then Europe will return to its days of glory. These pathetic democracies we have are nothing but failures.

If your ex is the relative of the royal, she would be the Kaiserin, not you :) And ally Germany with the USA? The other germanic nations, France, Britain and Russia would all make much better allies. We could turn the EU into a Crown Alliance.

Many leaders led their countries into war, as did Napoleon, Catherine the Great, Elisabeth I, Peter the Great, Alexander the Great etc. This does not detract from their grandeur in any way. Napoleon lost against Britain, yet he was a marvellous emperor. In any case, being related to someone does not mean you will act in accordance with their way of thinking. Its hardly hereditary. :rolleyes:

Germany does need a restoration of its monarchy, its elite and of its statesmen (and states-women), not useless politicians who sell themselves using their charisma. Blut und Ehre. If Austria, the White Russians and Portugal see it wise to restore their monarchs, all the better :) If France wisens up and institutes a new monarchy, then Europe will return to its days of glory. These pathetic democracies we have are nothing but failures.

"Silly Euros, Democracies are for Americans." -Me

what? and follow a leader related to the leader that dragged germany into WWI in the first place? i think not

It was the damn Prussian Kaiser who jumped at the chance to declare war on both Russia AND France. Without Wilhelm II stupid foriegn policies and war strategy, WWI would have been a regional/balkan war.

Again, the strongest reason to choose the Habsburgs is that they are not warmongering fools. They also ruled roughly one third of the world at their height (they were also the Kings of Spain for example). Heck, not to long ago they were even the rulers of imperial Mexico!

ANY German royal family is just a gang of provincial punks compared to the Habsburgs.

The democracies Europe and the USA have are representative. They are not true democracies in any sense. A ruling elite which pays attention to popular demands would be far better for Europe. The 2nd Reich's model of monarchy would be ideal.

It was the damn Prussian Kaiser who jumped at the chance to declare war on both Russia AND France. Without Wilhelm II stupid foriegn policies and war strategy, WWI would have been a regional/balkan war.

Again, the strongest reason to choose the Habsburgs is that they are not warmongering fools. They also ruled roughly one third of the world at their height (they were also the Kings of Spain for example). Heck, not to long ago they were even the rulers of imperial Mexico!

ANY German royal family is just a gang of provincial punks compared to the Habsburgs.
I will agree here, yet lets remember Germany crushed both Russia and France. Its US aid that helped overturn her, sadly. Fighting four sides at once was idiotic. Hopefully the Habsburgs will return.

It was the damn Prussian Kaiser who jumped at the chance to declare war on both Russia AND France. Without Wilhelm II stupid foriegn policies and war strategy, WWI would have been a regional/balkan war.

Again, the strongest reason to choose the Habsburgs is that they are not warmongering fools. They also ruled roughly one third of the world at their height (they were also the Kings of Spain for example). Heck, not to long ago they were even the rulers of imperial Mexico!

ANY German royal family is just a gang of provincial punks compared to the Habsburgs.

Um..buddy, Russia mobilized its army before Germany even dreamed of going to war...Germany declared war on Russia simply in defense because Russia was mobilizing its slow ass army....Fighting France was just taking advantage of a total European war in an attempt to gain territory, nothing wrong with that...thats legit for wartime....Not the Germans fault that the French were a bunch of wimpus maximuses and their cab drivers had to deliver their army to the front lines of the fight for Paris.

difference there, led and dragged.
i said it before in my rant on the treaty of versailles: germany was blamed for every death, even those inflicted by austria.

why should we go with the leader of a "greater" germany when they ruled over much more than germany? at least the hohenzollerns were true original germans.

countries in europe that switched to democracies recently have really bad ones.

The democracies Europe and the USA have are representative. They are not true democracies in any sense. A ruling elite which pays attention to popular demands would be far better for Europe. The 2nd Reich's model of monarchy would be ideal.

America is a federal republic with strong democrat ideas and traditions...true democracies only work on small communities....they are just way too unproductive and slow.

So is Europe though. We are very liberal in our ideas. I don't see how a Monarchy and ruling elite which pays attention to the public's needs is worse than a rep. democracy.

So is Europe though. We are very liberal in our ideas. I don't see how a Monarchy and ruling elite which pays attention to the public's needs is worse than a rep. democracy.

I just cant see Monarchys returning to Europe...even if the currecnt democracies are the greatest.

Its a dream many Europeans have...we are proud of our monarchies. It lends us a certain prestige. The 2nd Reich was an exemplar monarchy, as was the reign of the Habsburgs in Austro-Hungary. We want a return of these glorious governments. I believe an elite that is well educated and committed to its people, rather than just gaining and abusing power, is a thousand times better than some petty politicians who merely monger votes.

Um..buddy, Russia mobilized its army before Germany even dreamed of going to war...Germany declared war on Russia simply in defense because Russia was mobilizing its slow ass army....Fighting France was just taking advantage of a total European war in an attempt to gain territory, nothing wrong with that...thats legit for wartime....Not the Germans fault that the French were a bunch of wimpus maximuses and their cab drivers had to deliver their army to the front lines of the fight for Paris.

not only that but wilhelm II had an ego problem. he had a withered hand that he made up for in politics. Many of his chiefs of staff were apalled by his decisions.

habsburgs arent german. why should they rule germany? why did they rule italy, austria, hungary, spain, and mexico at one time? people who rule who dont come from that country cause problems. how long did mexico, spain and hungary last as habsburg dynasties?

germans rule germans, not austrians rule germans!

(whoops, forgot the false reich)

I agree here. A monarch should be a native of their country, else it causes big problems.

I recall though that Kaiser Wilhelm II vanquished both Russia and France. The USA tipped the balance of the war by pouring in 2 million fresh troops.

yeah, france would have given up without the u.s.'s help. french strategy was similar to russia's.

small problem, though: france doesn't have the endless resources of russia. thats what caused the empty generation in france. high school reunions were full of 2 people, tops. it kiled french growth

germany might be a better nation with the kaiser, but i dont know as i do not live there!

Russia still surrendered :) I wish the USA had never interfered! Both France and Russia were warrior nations, yet neither could match Germany's splendour. Perhaps only the Empire could.

Where do you stay?

the u.s. of a.

funny how people with german heritage love it more than germans themselves!

the u.s. of a.

funny how people with german heritage love it more than germans themselves!

Huh...that doesnt make sense....

what? and follow a leader related to the leader that dragged germany into WWI in the first place? i think not

That being someone's great-nephew is not a close relation.

Karl the I and not Franz Josef was the last emperor of Austria.

He means we love our heritage more than the Germans do at times. This is true though, especially since the Germans have been made to feel shame for their heritage as of WW 2. Few are those who are still proud of the Vaterland. Amongst the other Germanic nations though, many natives are still proud of their countries and their pasts.

clarification: people outside of germany love the old rulers more than real germans(i guess)

[if anyone know the game KOTOR or KOTOR II, hk-47 would be proud]

not only that but wilhelm II had an ego problem. he had a withered hand that he made up for in politics. Many of his chiefs of staff were apalled by his decisions.

habsburgs arent german. why should they rule germany? why did they rule italy, austria, hungary, spain, and mexico at one time? people who rule who dont come from that country cause problems. how long did mexico, spain and hungary last as habsburg dynasties?

germans rule germans, not austrians rule germans!

(whoops, forgot the false reich)


The Austrians are just as 'German' in a historical sense as the those that live in the Bundesrepublik. The Habsburgs are the MOST German, German royal family. The Hohezollers started off that as thier little underlings.....

The Holy Roman Empire German Nation was the only German state to include all of Germany. The Union of 1871 created the 2nd Reich in Kleindeutschland, ie. without the Habsburg lands. The Habsburg terroritories sent representatives to the Frankfurter Kongress in 1848, where the issue of Kleindeutschland vs. Grossdeutschland was hashed out.

The question here is, which is more grand, legitimate, and great- a family that ruled Germany for mere decades, or a family that ruled ALL of Germany for centuries!

Also, Otto von Habsburg is a citizen of the Bundesrepublik.

The Habsburgs had other terroritories for sure, their imperial acquistions where not limited to Germany BECAUSE THEY ALREADY RULED ALL OF GERMANY.

Also, they ruled Spain, Hungry, Bohem, Mahren, etc. etc. for centuries!

He means we love our heritage more than the Germans do at times. This is true though, especially since the Germans have been made to feel shame for their heritage as of WW 2. Few are those who are still proud of the Vaterland. Amongst the other Germanic nations though, many natives are still proud of their countries and their pasts.

Well I'm an American so I can only speak for Americans. Americans have made knowing and loving their hertiage a hobby because lets face it...all white Americans come from Europe. I think its a shame that Germans are made to be ashamed of their heritage, after all, Deutschland has a rich and awesome history, Nazism was only about 15 years of it. Germans are not Nazis, the Nazis were German, there a difference. The sooner Germans realize that and stop feeling sorry for themselves the sooner they will get back to normal. I love my german background, Prussian all the way baby.

Great attitude Atlantian Isles :) As a South African I am proud of my dutch blood, and more generally, germanic heritage. I believe the Germans should rekindle themselves with their glorious pre-Nazi past. Other germanic folk have no shame of theirs, so why should the Germans?

Good arguments Tiber city. I had no idea how far back the Habsburgs went.

The Austrians are just as 'German' in a historical sense as the those that live in the Bundesrepublik. The Habsburgs are the MOST German, German royal family. The Hohezollers started off that as thier little underlings.....

The Holy Roman Empire German Nation was the only German state to include all of Germany. The Union of 1871 created the 2nd Reich in Kleindeutschland, ie. without the Habsburg lands. The Habsburg terroritories sent representatives to the Frankfurter Kongress in 1848, where the issue of Kleindeutschland vs. Grossdeutschland was hashed out.

The question here is, which is more grand, legitimate, and great- a family that ruled Germany for mere decades, or a family that ruled ALL of Germany for centuries!

Also, Otto von Habsburg is a citizen of the Bundesrepublik.

The Habsburgs had other terroritories for sure, their imperial acquistions where not limited to Germany BECAUSE THEY ALREADY RULED ALL OF GERMANY.

Also, they ruled Spain, Hungry, Bohem, Mahren, etc. etc. for centuries!

so he's a citizen, wow. i know one kid who has triple citizenship: US, UK, and Ghana. That doesn't make him British or American. (he's definitely ghanan, he's a minor crown prince!)

ask an austrian if they consider themselves german. i bet they'll answer no. or anyone in Grossdeutschland too

as has been stated, people who rule who aren't that nationality DONT DO WELL. they ruled other people. thats why they aren't the best to rule a different country.

those mere decades were the best in german history. the golden era, if you will.

the HRE was fragmented. there was no germany, it was whatever town you were from or austrian.

the reason the second reich was pure Kleindeutschland was the fact that germans were sick of being ruled by an austrian.

austrians aren't german. the ancshluss (sorry to use nazi example) was forced on austrian gov't.

Actually, it's been proven by DNA testing that Chuck Norris is the actual heir to the German throne. Apparently, he killed the last remaining the heir by roundhouse kicking him to the face after he accidently called Chuck, "Julian". Chuck Norris went crazy at the sight of his blood, and drank it all. Therefore, the heir's DNA now runs in Chuck Norris's veins, making him the true heir and rulre of Germany. All hail Chuck!

Actually, it's been proven by DNA testing that Chuck Norris is the actual heir to the German throne. Apparently, he killed the last remaining the heir by roundhouse kicking him to the face after he accidently called Chuck, "Julian". Chuck Norris went crazy at the sight of his blood, and drank it all. Therefore, the heir's DNA now runs in Chuck Norris's veins, making him the true heir and rulre of Germany. All hail Chuck!

oh shut up with the norris crap. its funny in its own thread not here. try sticking to the topic.

so he's a citizen, wow. i know one kid who has triple citizenship: US, UK, and Ghana. That doesn't make him British or American. (he's definitely ghanan, he's a minor crown prince!)

ask an austrian if they consider themselves german. i bet they'll answer no. or anyone in Grossdeutschland too

as has been stated, people who rule who aren't that nationality DONT DO WELL. they ruled other people. thats why they aren't the best to rule a different country.

those mere decades were the best in german history. the golden era, if you will.

the HRE was fragmented. there was no germany, it was whatever town you were from or austrian.

the reason the second reich was pure Kleindeutschland was the fact that germans were sick of being ruled by an austrian.

austrians aren't german. the ancshluss (sorry to use nazi example) was forced on austrian gov't.

Austrians ARE racially and culturally Germans. However, ever since the end of WWII, Austrians have started distancing themselves from Germans. Therefore, if you ask an Austrian post WWII if they are Germans they will probably say no, but if you asked one anytime pre WWII, they would probably say yes.

Indeed, this is hardly the place for jokes of ill taste.

Austrians ARE racially and culturally Germans. However, ever since the end of WWII, Austrians have started distancing themselves from Germans. Therefore, if you ask an Austrian post WWII if they are Germans they will probably say no, but if you asked one anytime pre WWII, they would probably say yes.

granted about pre-/post-WWII. after what happened, people really did not want to be german. this is why you dont see german flags on people's houses in america, even though more people are of german descent than irish or italian combined.

what about between 1918 and 1935? were they austrians or germans or did they consider themselves both? (like american of german descent)

Austrians ARE racially and culturally Germans. However, ever since the end of WWII, Austrians have started distancing themselves from Germans. Therefore, if you ask an Austrian post WWII if they are Germans they will probably say no, but if you asked one anytime pre WWII, they would probably say yes.
This is true. Austria has always been Germany's handmaiden of a sort.

granted about pre-/post-WWII. after what happened, people really did not want to be german. this is why you dont see german flags on people's houses in america, even though more people are of german descent than irish or italian combined.

what about between 1918 and 1935? were they austrians or germans or did they consider themselves both? (like american of german descent)
WW 2 did so much damage to the reputation of germanic heritage :( I hate the Nazis for this.

granted about pre-/post-WWII. after what happened, people really did not want to be german. this is why you dont see german flags on people's houses in america, even though more people are of german descent than irish or italian combined.

what about between 1918 and 1935? were they austrians or germans or did they consider themselves both? (like american of german descent)

They considered themselves citizens of Austria...but as people Germans.

All the more reason it was so easy for that Austrian bastard to relate to the germans (of germany) and them to him, and why it was also so easy for germany to annex Austria, because they felt like the same people..sort of.

WW 2 did so much damage to the reputation of germanic heritage :( I hate the Nazis for this.

Yup, I think everyone hates the Nazis for one thing or another;)

I have a double reason to hate them. For what they did to Germanic heritage, and I'm Jewish, lol. Although, luckily, I didnt have any family in Europe during WWII, as they came to America right after WWI, they were already here.

Austria did not really protest against being annexed did it?

The damage the Nazis have done is huge. Hopefully one day it will be reversed.

Yup, I think everyone hates the Nazis for one thing or another;)

I have a double reason to hate them. For what they did to Germanic heritage, and I'm Jewish, lol. Although, luckily, I didnt have any family in Europe during WWII, as they came to America right after WWI, they were already here.

Being Jewish and of German(Prussian) background, I love to pick apart nazi racial theory....For instance their stereotype of Jews, and of their perfect aryan race. I for one am 6'3, thin, muscular, blonde, green eyed, and am of german race, but I am Jewish...which according to those bastards, was impossible...HAHAHAH....Me-1 Nazis-0

That would be because of your german blood though, wouldn't it? In any case, Nazi racial theory was faulted. My entire family on my mother's side is fair skinned and haired, and some on my father's. Yet, neither of my parents are fair haired. The Nazis forgot that many germanic folk had other hair and eye shades.

That would be because of your german blood though, wouldn't it? In any case, Nazi racial theory was faulted.

Yes, and Nazi racial theory is shit....simply propaganda..everyone thinks their country and its citizens are the best.

Austria did not really protest against being annexed did it?

The damage the Nazis have done is huge. Hopefully one day it will be reversed.

Well, it didnt really have much of a choice...but the leaders of Austria didnt really mind.

Well, it didnt really have much of a choice...but the leaders of Austria didnt really mind.

As for the damage the Nazis have done being repaired. Well, like they say, time heals all wounds.

Lets hope so.

Austria has always been somewhat of a sister nation of Germany's.

Lets hope so.

Austria has always been somewhat of a sister nation of Germany's.

Yeah...ever since the Unification of Germany...Before that, Austria and the german states hated each other...always at war...think Prussia vs. Austria.
But yeah even to this day Austrias biggest trading partner is Germany and they will continue to be close, because they share many things, like a common people. Sort of like America, England, Australia, and Canada...Sort of. lol

Hahaha yeah, sort of ;) England is not too distant from Germany though. Germanic nations tend to get on rather well.

Hahaha yeah, sort of ;) England is not too distant from Germany though. Germanic nations tend to get on rather well.

Well you do know that the English royal family is German. They changed their name during WWI for obvious reasons.

Plus England's folk descend from the saxons. Many British are also of danish/other viking blood. Thus it can actually be counted as one of the germanic nations. Much like South African whites due to dutch descent.

Plus England's folk descend from the saxons. Many British are also of danish/other viking blood. Thus it can actually be counted as one of the germanic nations. Much like South African whites due to dutch descent.

True, but many people on the British Isles also mixed with the Celts...so many are a hyrbid of Celt/Germanic.

Yeah, of course, but they still have germanic blood in them ;)

Yeah, of course, but they still have germanic blood in them ;)

Yup, are you one of them?

Nah, I am South African with dutch blood.

Yeah...ever since the Unification of Germany...Before that, Austria and the german states hated each other...always at war...think Prussia vs. Austria.
But yeah even to this day Austrias biggest trading partner is Germany and they will continue to be close, because they share many things, like a common people. Sort of like America, England, Australia, and Canada...Sort of. lol

Well you do know that the English royal family is German. They changed their name during WWI for obvious reasons.

The america-england comparison is good. they are really close but they are proud of their differences.

The house of hanover, 1703. First three kings (Georges I,II,III) all spoke german better than english. George I didn't even speak english!

massive irony, considering the brits hate em so much! :p

Nah, I am South African with dutch blood.

Ah, thats right, forgive me bro. I forgot.

Victoria, the greatest ruler of Britain after Elisabeth, was of German blood as well :P

silly english, your german too! :D

isnt every national house related in europe? especially after victoria's time when everyone intermarried. the heir to the hohenzollern is 146th in line to the british crown! plus he is in line for the swedish and hungarian too!

if you gathered all the national houses and killed them off, people could still take over!

I believe most monarchs descend from the Danish monarchy.

The English are indeed germanic, yet I wouldn't say German. :p

silly english, your german too! :D

isnt every national house related in europe? especially after victoria's time when everyone intermarried. the heir to the hohenzollern is 146th in line to the british crown! plus he is in line for the swedish and hungarian too!

if you gathered all the national houses and killed them off, people could still take over!

Like Europa Maxima said, the English arnt really Germany, they are Germanic...but yes, I beleive most, if not all of the houses were related.

Yes, I think they descended from the Danish Crown, not entirely sure. Most monarchies are linked by this connection (eg Russian, German and British).

Okay, I've read enough of this: If anyone should impose a new Kaiser on me it will be the shortest-lived reign over Germany ever!
http://www.kirupa.com/forum/images/smilies/king.gif:sniper:

It really is interesting indeed that all those guys from abroad with German or half-German or even Germanic descent seem to be all too fascinated about the Kaiserreich - but Germany is a Democracy now and that's the way it should stay. I wouldn't take up arms easily, but defending my freedom from monarchic or dictatorial rule would definitely be just the thing. Or from Nock Churris - but that's a different story :D

BTW, what's up with the year 1935 constantly mentioned above?

Okay, I've read enough of this: If anyone should impose a new Kaiser on me it will be the shortest-lived reign over Germany ever!
http://www.kirupa.com/forum/images/smilies/king.gif:sniper:

It really is interesting indeed that all those guys from abroad with German or half-German or even Germanic descent seem to be all too fascinated about the Kaiserreich - but Germany is a Democracy now and that's the way it should stay. I wouldn't take up arms easily, but defending my freedom from monarchic or dictatorial rule would definitely be just the thing. Or from Nock Churris - but that's a different story :D

BTW, what's up with the year 1935 constantly mentioned above?

Where do you see the year 1935?? I dont beleive that Germany or any other Euro country should go back to a monarchy...I simply stated that their governments kinda suck...lol

A difference in opinions then. :) As I said, we'll agree to disagree.

This is true. Austria has always been Germany's handmaiden of a sort.

For most of history it was the other way around. Interestingly, the reason it is called 'High German' is in reference to the Alps. The offical standard langauge was pre-luther the dialect of the Habsburg court.

Also, to answer another question, Austria tried to refer to itself as Deutschoesterreich (German-Austria) after WWI, but the allies did not allow this name. Austrians are historically, culturally, and ethnically German. It is only in the post WWII era that they have tired to distance themselves.

Also, to respond to the moron who keeps saying that the Habsburgs are a different nationality than Germans: German 'Nationality' is as loaded a term as you can get. It was be falsley constructed and reconstructed to fit every major change since Napoleon.

The Habsburgs are the age old rulers of Germany, and are much better suited than some pathetic remains of Germany's short lived 'zweite Reich'

Austria did not really protest against being annexed did it?

The damage the Nazis have done is huge. Hopefully one day it will be reversed.

The fascist Dollfuss had already wiped out the Sozial Democratic oppisition, along with the communists, and anyone who was really in favor of democracy. With Austria having just finished a civil war, its economy in tatters, and German tanks rolling in, the Anschluss wasn't something they could protest.....

Victoria, the greatest ruler of Britain after Elisabeth, was of German blood as well :P
Greatest ruler?? She was barely a ruler at all. Victoria was a constitutional monarch - the country was ruled by the Prime Minister and Cabinet.

German 'Nationality' is as loaded a term as you can get. It was be falsley constructed and reconstructed to fit every major change since Napoleon.
Seconded.

"Deutsch" is a linguistic term - in its very first mention it was used to describe a group of tribes as "those that speak German".

So if you look at it like that, Austrians are Germans. If you ask an Austrian about that though, he'll probably either laugh at you or punch you...

:eek:

Honestly... do any of you actually really believe anything about this monarchy/race/"Austrians are Germans"/"Germans wouldn't go to the bathroom without a written permission" - thing?

If so, I'm honestly shocked and appalled by the sheer ignorance and arrogance parraded here... it might be best to regard this whole thread as one big joke...

Greatest ruler?? She was barely a ruler at all. Victoria was a constitutional monarch - the country was ruled by the Prime Minister and Cabinet.
Run by government and the PM, ruled by the Queen. A difference in terms :)

:eek:

Honestly... do any of you actually really believe anything about this monarchy/race/"Austrians are Germans"/"Germans wouldn't go to the bathroom without a written permission" - thing?

If so, I'm honestly shocked and appalled by the sheer ignorance and arrogance parraded here... it might be best to regard this whole thread as one big joke...
Firstly, no one believes that the Germans would act in such a manner. Secondly, it is our right to express pride in our germanic heritage and our admiration towards monarchy, for those who are so inclined. This thread is hardly arrogant nor ignorant. It is a mutual expression of our predilections. If this is a joke to you, don't bother posting.

Secondly, it is our right to express pride in our germanic heritage...
Oh, shut it. If you actually had a Germanic heritage, you wouldn't run around proclaiming your pride in it.

I am getting so bored with people all over the world proclaiming their German-ness...

Sigh...why don't you shut it? Who gives you any right to tell other people how to think or act? Does anyone deny your right to express your ideas? I think not. I have studied germanic culture and history, and my ancestral bloodlines, and should I choose to take pride in them, such is my prerogative. If you have a problem with it, seriously as the british say "got an issue? here's a tissue." :rolleyes:

I have studied germanic culture and history, and my ancestral bloodlines, and should I choose to take pride in them, such is my prerogative.
Then here is a simple question:

What is it that makes you proud to be German?

And what does that have to do with you?

You seem to confuse Germanic for German. Germanic includes a number of nations, including Holland. I am of dutch blood, and thus germanic heritage. I am proud both of the germanic heritage as a whole and of Holland's history itself. I never said I am German. Yet, I do admire Germany as a nation. Is there a law against admiring a nation then?

Firstly, no one believes that the Germans would act in such a manner. Secondly, it is our right to express pride in our germanic heritage and our admiration towards monarchy, for those who are so inclined. This thread is hardly arrogant nor ignorant. It is a mutual expression of our predilections. If this is a joke to you, don't bother posting.

Considering that I spent the first 27 years of my life in Germany, with one parent Austrian, I daresay most of the things stated are highly ignorant and arrogant...

While it is true that Germany was a monarchy for most of its history, the major difference to other monarchies was that the German emperor was elected. There was no hereditary monarchy until 1871, with the founding of the German Reich under Bismark/Wilhelm I.
Austria had been an independent empire, with part of its territory belonging to the Holy German Empire of Roman Nation, and part of it outside, exactly like Prussia.
Both Hohenzollern and Habsburger were elected emperors at one time or another, but so were Wittelsbacher and Staufen.

Those people who claim to be nostalgic for a "Golden age of monarchy", refering to the 47 years of the German Reich, should bear in mind that Germany had been a democracy for much longer now, close to 60 years now, and that this form of government has proven to be much more stable and reliable and is more than accepted in the minds of the German public.

There is one small group in Germany who are rallying for a re-institution of monarchy, the Bayerische Koenigspartei, but their sole aim is to reinstate the house of Wittelsbach and to make Bavaria an independent kingdom. They have even less followers than the Naturgesetzpartei....

I am aware of all of this, and this is what attracts me all the more so to German form of monarchy, with the elected Kaiser. What makes you think I am ignorant of all of this? Both the 1st and 2nd Reich were grand periods in German history, emphasis on the latter, under which Germany thrived. It is true that a return to monarchy is unlikely, yet it is still something I like as an idea.

I am proud both of the germanic heritage as a whole and of Holland's history itself.
But why?

This is not against you by the way, it's more about the deeper issue about how someone can be proud of something that has absolutely nothing to do with them as individuals and is completely outside their influence.

I personally think it's my descendants fault that there even WAS an Imperial Germany. We had the chance to wipe out those damnable Prussians once and for all! We had them at our mercy! And what do we do? We make them into a fief, that's it. We should have cut them down. When we DIDN'T, they became much stronger, partitioned our country, and then created one of the most powerful empires Europe has ever known.

I guess the Poles didn't have much foresight after all...

I personally think it's my descendants fault that there even WAS an Imperial Germany.
You should never have had children, my friend...

I am aware of all of this, and this is what attracts me all the more so to German form of monarchy, with the elected Kaiser. What makes you think I am ignorant of all of this? Both the 1st and 2nd Reich were grand periods in German history, emphasis on the latter, under which Germany thrived. It is true that a return to monarchy is unlikely, yet it is still something I like as an idea.World War One was everything but "thriving."

I am aware of all of this, and this is what attracts me all the more so to German form of monarchy, with the elected Kaiser. What makes you think I am ignorant of all of this? Both the 1st and 2nd Reich were grand periods in German history, emphasis on the latter, under which Germany thrived. It is true that a return to monarchy is unlikely, yet it is still something I like as an idea.

Well, considering the second Reich was deeply hated by most of its citizens for the simple reason that it was a Prussian empire, that had more or less annexed all the independent kingdoms and countries (Bavaria, Hessen, the Hansestaedte, etc.) I honestly don't understand on what grounds anybody would wish to have it back?

I personally think it's my descendants fault that there even WAS an Imperial Germany. We had the chance to wipe out those damnable Prussians once and for all! We had them at our mercy! And what do we do? We make them into a fief, that's it. We should have cut them down. When we DIDN'T, they became much stronger, partitioned our country, and then created one of the most powerful empires Europe has ever known.

I guess the Poles didn't have much foresight after all...

Thats right baby, dont mess with Prussians:D

Thats right baby, dont mess with Prussians:D
If the Poles hadn't needed them, Prussia would never even have existed.

a) The word "Prussians" is a Polish invention for the Barbaric Tribes along the Baltic Coast in the early Middle Ages.

b) The Poles didn't feel too happy with all those Barbarians in the North. So they got a set of Teutonic Knights to come and fight them. So the Knights fought Prussia, they didn't found it.

c) When Brandenburg-Prussia was founded as a kingdom, Friedrich first had to ask for permission from the Poles, which they granted. And even then, his official title always read "king in Prussia", not "king of Prussia".

So it seems that someone messed with the Prussians at some point afterall...

Where do you see the year 1935?? (...)

(...)
what about between 1918 and 1935? were they austrians or germans or did they consider themselves both? (like american of german descent)

Right there. It has been quoted at least 2-3 times.

Anyway, I firmly believe that there's good reason not to abandon Democracy and return to being ruled by a monarch or dictator. And no matter how much a government may suck, they only do so until their term is through and then we re-shuffle the deck. Can you imagine being stuck with a stupid king or emperor for his our your lifetime? That would suck so much it'd already blow again :D

You seem to confuse Germanic for German. Germanic includes a number of nations, including Holland. I am of dutch blood, and thus germanic heritage. I am proud both of the germanic heritage as a whole and of Holland's history itself. I never said I am German. Yet, I do admire Germany as a nation. Is there a law against admiring a nation then?

Chance is, that not a single drop of your blood is germanic. Most people living in the germanic territories are not a little bit germanic, owing the fact that since they (die Germanen - Teutons f.e.) lived there (a) ab 1500 years passed and (b) most of them went south against the roman empire (c) some minor movements of peoples took place.

I'm german but as far as my mother could tell me from her only glimpse on our now vanished ancestry-tree stem from spanish and italian origins. Wait, maybe there is a drop of germanic blood in my venes: I'm bearded and the very tips of my moustache look a little bit blond. Whoopie!

I am aware of all of this, and this is what attracts me all the more so to German form of monarchy, with the elected Kaiser. What makes you think I am ignorant of all of this? Both the 1st and 2nd Reich were grand periods in German history, emphasis on the latter, under which Germany thrived. It is true that a return to monarchy is unlikely, yet it is still something I like as an idea.

Elected, my ass. Elected by sovereigns. That is the kind of election you always get if you want to inthrone a king/kaiser the first time.

And if you studied history: after Otto von Bismarck went („Der Lotse geht von Bord“) without a decent successor, politics went awry. Kaiser Wilhelm II neglected the diplomatic connections in a way that forced Deutschland later into the war. Not only this, he himself advanced the war with his aggressive talks. So much about the glorious Kaiser. If you have a chance, there is a little film with snippets from his life: "Majestät brauchen Sonne".

Elected, my ass. Elected by sovereigns. That is the kind of election you always get if you want to inthrone a king/kaiser the first time.

And if you studied history: after Otto von Bismarck went („Der Lotse geht von Bord“) without a decent successor, politics went awry. Kaiser Wilhelm II neglected the diplomatic connections in a way that forced Deutschland later into the war. Not only this, he himself advanced the war with his aggressive talks. So much about the glorious Kaiser. If you have a chance, there is a little film with snippets from his life: "Majestät brauchen Sonne".


And if you want to know about the behaviour of the Kaiser's subjects during this era, try Thomas Mann's "Der Untertan". Both the book and the movie are worth it....

If the Poles hadn't needed them, Prussia would never even have existed.

a) The word "Prussians" is a Polish invention for the Barbaric Tribes along the Baltic Coast in the early Middle Ages.

b) The Poles didn't feel too happy with all those Barbarians in the North. So they got a set of Teutonic Knights to come and fight them. So the Knights fought Prussia, they didn't found it.

c) When Brandenburg-Prussia was founded as a kingdom, Friedrich first had to ask for permission from the Poles, which they granted. And even then, his official title always read "king in Prussia", not "king of Prussia".

So it seems that someone messed with the Prussians at some point afterall...
Indeed, the Poles did ask for help from the Teutonic Knights in vanquishing the barbarians. Nevertheless, what's done is done, and Prussia developed into a mighty nation.

I know that the Kaiser was elected by sovereigns. Perhaps if the election was extended to a circle of intellectual elite statesmen it would have been even better. And indeed Bismarck was what made the 2nd Reich so powerful. I never could understand why the Kaiser dismissed him.

Indeed, the Poles did ask for help from the Teutonic Knights in vanquishing the barbarians. Nevertheless, what's done is done, and Prussia developed into a mighty nation.

I know that the Kaiser was elected by sovereigns. Perhaps if the election was extended to a circle of intellectual elite statesmen it would have been even better. And indeed Bismarck was what made the 2nd Reich so powerful. I never could understand why the Kaiser dismissed him.

The people electing the Kaiser were in fact considered to be intellectual elite statesmen.
And it is a very dangerous sign indeed if a form of government can only be sustained as long as one certain person runs it, be that Bismark, Tito or Napoleon...

But why?

This is not against you by the way, it's more about the deeper issue about how someone can be proud of something that has absolutely nothing to do with them as individuals and is completely outside their influence.
I cannot explain it. It is something I feel within me, something that stirs whenever I come into contact with germanic culture. Many feel this passion when they speak of latino or celtic culture. In my case, the blood bond is with my germanic inheritance.

Fanurpleron, my grandparents are of dutch origin and can trace their ancestry back to Dutch who left Holland going to South Africa. They possess all the physiological traits that a dutchman would possess and the surnames in my line are all dutch.

The people electing the Kaiser were in fact considered to be intellectual elite statesmen.
And it is a very dangerous sign indeed if a form of government can only be sustained as long as one certain person runs it, be that Bismark, Tito or Napoleon...
I'll agree here. I would pass more power on to the statesmen and restrict the Kaiser (or Monarch's powers) personally. The elite would be open to all citizens proving themselves worthy and exclusive to any of those within it who prove themselves unworthy. It would thus cleanse itself so to speak.

I loathe party politicians and would love to see rule by intellectuals once more.

I'll agree here. I would pass more power on to the statesmen and restrict the Kaiser (or Monarch's powers) personally. The elite would be open to all citizens proving themselves worthy and exclusive to any of those within it who prove themselves unworthy. It would thus cleanse itself so to speak.

Wouldn't work. For one very basic reason : Money.

A system like that would be highly corruptible, which in fact was one of the major problems all through the history of the Holy Roman Empire of German Nation.
The main reason why dynasties could be established in such a system was the fact that the one sovereign with the most influence would invariably be elected, which is why in the end, the throne was passed to and fro between Prussia and Austria, depending on who was in the better financial situation at the time.

Money, how I detest that word as well. I love the finer things in life, but this whole world seems to revolve around the artificial concept. Perhaps Huxley was right. Yet, I do hope one day we get past this greed and move on to a system of more merit.

Money, how I detest that word as well. I love the finer things in life, but this whole world seems to revolve around the artificial concept. Perhaps Huxley was right. Yet, I do hope one day we get past this greed and move on to a system of more merit.

I doubt that will ever happen, as it goes against the fundamental basics of human beings. To have is to be...

Maybe if we could somehow remove the emotion greed from this elite it would work...selective emotional suppression via the use of medications (perhaps based on RNAi) may be possible one day, so why not give it a shot? Its a hell of a lot better than this party politics crap in my most humble opinion (yeh right :p ).

Maybe if we could somehow remove the emotion greed from this elite it would work...selective emotional suppression via the use of medications (perhaps based on RNAi) may be possible one day, so why not give it a shot? Its a hell of a lot better than this party politics crap in my most humble opinion (yeh right :p ).

Why then restricting t to the elite?
Seriously, the fact that somebody is an intellectual doesn't say much about their moral and ethical values at all. I personally (even though I often despair of the stupidity of the human race or some individuals) wouldn't feel any better about the state of the world or a country if it was run by people who were selected according to thei IQ only. Remember, some of the world's most evil dictators were brilliant geniuses as well.
It would be a good thing if greed gradually disappeared, out of the whole population. Helping it along with medication would be the wrong way to go about it, though, as it would tamper with people's free will....

My definition of elites committed to power requires them to act in the public's best interest, and be of impeccable morals and standards. Its not simply a matter of IQ, but of refinement, intelligence, fairness, education, open-mindedness and intellectuality ultimately. These are the defining traits of ideal rulers. Belonging to the elite would not necessarily be hereditary, but would be both a status of privilege and of duty.

I wonder if it is possible to eliminate greed from human nature otherwise. For that to be possible, we would have to be nearly fully self-sufficient, something that usually characterises a utopia, with self-replicating robots servicing all our needs. Even then, how far would greed be rooted out?

My definition of elites committed to power requires them to act in the public's best interest, and be of impeccable morals and standards. Its not simply a matter of IQ, but of refinement, intelligence, fairness, education, open-mindedness and intellectuality ultimately. These are the defining traits of ideal rulers. Belonging to the elite would not necessarily be hereditary, but would be both a status of privilege and of duty.

Who would select them?

An impartial panel of members of the general public, able to determine whether or not they are elite material. Keeping the panel independent and sufficiently informed would be of paramount importance. As this elite would derive from the public, ie its brightest members, it would not be exclusive to others of merit. One might say egos could get in the way, yet if the panel is impartial to ensure that bias is eliminated, this should not be an issue.

NO, I had a vision.

We take the best of all human characteristics, nature, talents, IQ that blows through the roof, a fster mind then the best supercomputer, emotions, care for the welfare of humans, and clone it into one being. ANd this being will be Perfect, and live forever as our Emperor , being recloned whenever his predecessor dies. Bah, communism is a cold fart compared to this new system of being run by the uber mensch.

Quite scary, but that could happen one day. In the very distant future.

Don't the British monarchy have a fairly valid claim to the imperial German crown? Afterall, Wilhelm the II was grandson of Queen Victoria and cousin of George V. Also, the British have a fairly good claim on the Russian throne, as Nicholas II's wife was a grandaughter of Victoria as well.

This is true. The families were related.

Don't the British monarchy have a fairly valid claim to the imperial German crown? Afterall, Wilhelm the II was grandson of Queen Victoria and cousin of George V. Also, the British have a fairly good claim on the Russian throne, as Nicholas II's wife was a grandaughter of Victoria as well.

To the German crown, yes, maybe. To the Russian crown, no. Alexandra only married into the Romanov family, that doesn't give her any claim to the throne.

Yeah, the Russian monarchy is a different story.

Its funny how both Britain and Russia were ruled by two powerful Queens, yet they fail (failed in Russia's case) to allow women to ascend to the throne, unless they are the only option. This is one aspect of monarchy I detest.

Indeed, the Poles did ask for help from the Teutonic Knights in vanquishing the barbarians. Nevertheless, what's done is done, and Prussia developed into a mighty nation.

I know that the Kaiser was elected by sovereigns. Perhaps if the election was extended to a circle of intellectual elite statesmen it would have been even better. And indeed Bismarck was what made the 2nd Reich so powerful. I never could understand why the Kaiser dismissed him.

We asked the Teutonic knights for help, and then they start attacking us. We couldn't allow that to continue, so we beat their little nation into our bitch. Unfortunatly, the Commonwealth had the problem that most democracies have; not everyone was for wiping out a nation. And since for a bill to pass in the Sejm, it needed 100% support, that couldn't happen...

But what's done is done, and eh, if it weren't for the Germans, we wouldn't have...um....errr....

ICBM's?

As far as I recall, the Teutonic Knights dominated in most of the succeeding wars, and Prussia later evolved into a powerful nation.

As far as I recall, the Teutonic Knights dominated in most of the succeeding wars, and Prussia later evolved into a powerful nation.

Whaaaat?

They had to flee to Germany. We broke them soundly at the Battle of Grunwald (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grunwald), and they were broken forever. Sure, they lasted to this day, but their last Grand Master converted to Lutheranism later on. The "Prussians" that invaded and partitioned Poland were not Teutonic Knights, but really "Brandenburg-Prussians", who only had the name "Prussia" in their name because they laid claim to Ducal Prussia and Royal Prussia.

It should also be noted that many local Prussians were quite unhappy with Teutonic Knight rule, and the Thirteen Years War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteen_Years%27_War) was started on behalf ot the Prussian Confederation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_Confederation), which was supported by the cities of Danzing, Elbing, and Thorn (the largest cities in the Teutonic State, might I add.)

Thanks for the clarification. :) Nevertheless, Prussia remains the legacy of their actions centuries ago. It developed into a very powerful nation. I think most German land is in fact Prussia.

Thanks for the clarification. :) Nevertheless, Prussia remains the legacy of their actions centuries ago. It developed into a very powerful nation. I think most German land is in fact Prussia.

Take a look at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussia

Thanks for the clarification. :) Nevertheless, Prussia remains the legacy of their actions centuries ago. It developed into a very powerful nation. I think most German land is in fact Prussia.

Aye, can't deny that.

And there's a map somewhere that shows the land that belonged to Brandenburg-Prussia before German Unification...

Here it is!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/df/Ac.prussiamap3.gif

What exactly am I meant to look at?

Kein Mann ist besser als hitler! Sie sind alle weaklings und verdienen zu sterben! Hagel Deutschland!

Last maps down below. Prussia moved west in the time. Greatest size was from 1870 until 1918. Yellow part is Germany. This Prussia covers about half the Germany of today with Poland covering the other half of Prussia.

Oh yes, I am aware of this. Its still one of the largest states within Germany though.

Oh yes, I am aware of this. Its still one of the largest states within Germany though.
Today the largest state is Bavaria, and that's all that matters. Germany settled its border with Poland for good in 1989 I believe, and it will stay as it is - until we give up the stupid concept of "borders" and all merge to form the European Superstate.

Unfortunatly, the Commonwealth had the problem that most democracies have; not everyone was for wiping out a nation.
Well...calling the Polish government of the time "democratic" may just be a little bit of a stretch.
And ultimately, if you had destroyed the Teutonic Order...would it have changed anything? The Swedes, Russians, Turks would have won nonetheless.
It may feel nice to somehow blame Germans for what happened, but it's not correct, and it doesn't help either. Poland had its own internal problems that destroyed it.
And in WWI, Polish independence fighters were quite happy to fight on the side of Germany.

Provided the EU survives. I would love a merger into a superstate, yet for that to happen the Constitution must be ratified. I hope this takes place.

Well...calling the Polish government of the time "democratic" may just be a little bit of a stretch.
And ultimately, if you had destroyed the Teutonic Order...would it have changed anything? The Swedes, Russians, Turks would have won nonetheless.
It may feel nice to somehow blame Germans for what happened, but it's not correct, and it doesn't help either. Poland had its own internal problems that destroyed it.
And in WWI, Polish independence fighters were quite happy to fight on the side of Germany.

Well, 'twas a Nobles democracy; at least was more democratic then the other states of Europe :D

I'm also not blaming the Germans for everything (although, in my defence, we DID defeat the Swedes and the Turks; 'twas the Austrians, Russians, and Prussians that got us in the end), it's just that Poland could have put an end to it. Of course, what's done is done, and there's no changing that.

And in response to yer WWI comment; no duh they did, the Germans were better than the Russians (although the Austrians were the best of the three).

Haha Austrians make ferocious warriors :p

Haha Austrians make ferocious warriors :p

They didn't defend their Galician areas particularly well, yes, but they treated the Poles like any other part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire (which means pretty darn well, since the AHE was so fragmented).

Kein Mann ist besser als hitler! Sie sind alle weaklings und verdienen zu sterben! Hagel Deutschland!
I like this one by the way...

He uses polite grammar to address people he calls "weaklings" (should be "Schwächlinge").

And "Hagel" is Hail as in ice falling from the sky. :D :D :D
===================================================

I think if the Second Empire can teach us anything though, it is their way of dealing with Business.
Germany needs to reform its economy right now, and it is often suggested that more liberal rules would be an "Anglo-American" solution, and somehow "un-German" (although never in those words).

But AFAIK, the Empire had a pretty liberal economy, with some Social Security, and it worked quite well. Maybe Politicians could look back at how things were organised then for inspirations.

Here I will agree with you. Germany indeed needs to move forward, yet I fear that the coalition government will not provide the impetus required for change. If Merkel had won a landslide victory, perhaps this would not be such an issue.

Here I will agree with you. Germany indeed needs to move forward, yet I fear that the coalition government will not provide the impetus required for change. If Merkel had won a landslide victory, perhaps this would not be such an issue.
If you really care, you can find Merkel's Declaration of Intent she made in Parliament yesterday here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4484788.stm).
It's basically her program summarised in one speech.

I reserve my judgement about the Coalition for later. Right now I think it is a pretty good result that both major parties are involved in the process, resulting in a bigger majority than would ever have been possible otherwise, and removing the biggest obstacle - namely the criticism from the Opposition.

What makes you think that I don't care? :confused:

I am merely concerned that the coalition will thwart her policy reforms. It is good for the opposition to have a voice, but not to the point that the government is in a deadlock.

What makes you think that I don't care? :confused:
Just an NS General tendency to ignore everything that doesn't have to do with the States...

I did so many threads about German politics over the months...but I'd be lucky if I got 50 replies on aggregate.

I am not American, to begin with. I reside in the UK currently. Additionally, I like being informed in current affairs around the globe, especially within Europe and the USA. It is true though that many do not care much for politics, or at least have little awareness of current events.