NationStates Jolt Archive

Iraq: Now there are "contractors" (i.e. paid sociopaths) doing the exact things that war supporters are claiming aren't happening.

Shooting innocent Iraqi civilians for fun... (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/11/27/wirq27.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/11/27/ixworld.html)

And, now they're video-taping it. This is beyond any type of behavior I've ever seen. And, what's more, is most of these "contractors" are former military personnel. "Investigations" will no longer cut it, we need to get out. The whole thing is spinning out of control, and it will only get worse the longer we stay.

Ah, we should leave so the Iraqis can just do this to each other.

Ah, we should leave so the Iraqis can just do this to each other.

:confused: :confused: :confused: :rolleyes:

What the hell are you talking about? Psycho westerners start blowing innocent civilians away, and you come with flippant comments. What the hell is the matter with you. How is it that you don't seem to have a problem with this at all? What's worse is that I've seen you crashing threads, coming to the defence of christianity, you know, the religion where one of the primary tenets is "thou shalt not kill".

How is this type of behavior lending any benefit to the "mission"? We're supposed to be helping these people, remember? Now, even Ayad Allawi is saying that things are worse there than they were under Saddam, not better, and Saddam has been gone for more than two years.

:confused: :confused: :confused: :rolleyes:

What the hell are you talking about? Psycho westerners start blowing innocent civilians away, and you come with flippant comments. What the hell is the matter with you. How is it that you don't seem to have a problem with this at all? What's worse is that I've seen you crashing threads, coming to the defence of christianity, you know, the religion where one of the primary tenets is "thou shalt not kill".

How is this type of behavior lending any benefit to the "mission"? We're supposed to be helping these people, remember? Now, even Ayad Allawi is saying that things are worse there than they were under Saddam, not better, and Saddam has been gone for more than two years.

I don't have a problem with it because that's the way most of the world outside of the West lives - people shooting at each other for no particular reason. Yes, it's bad that some Westerners did this - essentially acting like some Third World idiot with a gun. And they videotaped it (they do that in the Third World, too).

I see, however, that it's being investigated - which is the primary difference between a Western nation and the Third World.

Shall I show you a video of some French soldiers shooting an unarmed man for sport? Oh, there was an investigation - when you get shot by Westerners, at least people look into it.

And no, I don't jump into too many threads defending Christianity, although i am a Christian. Maybe you should read the New Testament, especially the part about selling your cloak in order to buy a sword.

And no, I don't jump into too many threads defending Christianity, although i am a Christian. Maybe you should read the New Testament, especially the part about selling your cloak in order to buy a sword.
Which is stupid. I mean, what sword can you buy with what you get for a cloak? Maybe a pointy stick or a rusty nail, but a sword, no way. Besides, what good is the sword going to be against an AK-47?

Iraq: Now there are "contractors" (i.e. paid sociopaths) doing the exact things that war supporters are claiming aren't happening.

Shooting innocent Iraqi civilians for fun... (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/11/27/wirq27.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/11/27/ixworld.html)

And, now they're video-taping it. This is beyond any type of behavior I've ever seen. And, what's more, is most of these "contractors" are former military personnel. "Investigations" will no longer cut it, we need to get out. The whole thing is spinning out of control, and it will only get worse the longer we stay.
But 'Hired' nut job's have nothing to do with a 'war' now do they?

Which is stupid. I mean, what sword can you buy with what you get for a cloak? Maybe a pointy stick or a rusty nail, but a sword, no way. Besides, what good is the sword going to be against an AK-47?

I assume he means a weapon appropriate for the times. Which is why I buy and carry firearms.

I assume he means a weapon appropriate for the times. Which is why I buy and carry firearms.
Now I'm confused, is the Bible the unerrant literal truth or is it made up of allegories open to interpretation?

Now I'm confused, is the Bible the unerrant literal truth or is it made up of allegories open to interpretation?

Whatever fits the person who is citing the Bible I guess.

Now I'm confused, is the Bible the unerrant literal truth or is it made up of allegories open to interpretation?

That's up to you. Who am I to push my interpretation of Christianity on you?

"Investigations" aren't the answer, but neither is pulling out. Pulling out will only make things worse. We made this mess, we'd better bloody well fix it.

I don't have a problem with it because that's the way most of the world outside of the West lives - people shooting at each other for no particular reason. Yes, it's bad that some Westerners did this - essentially acting like some Third World idiot with a gun. And they videotaped it (they do that in the Third World, too).

I see, however, that it's being investigated - which is the primary difference between a Western nation and the Third World.

Shall I show you a video of some French soldiers shooting an unarmed man for sport? Oh, there was an investigation - when you get shot by Westerners, at least people look into it.

And no, I don't jump into too many threads defending Christianity, although i am a Christian. Maybe you should read the New Testament, especially the part about selling your cloak in order to buy a sword.

Aw man, talk about isolationism, recism, and prejudice (have you been outside of the West countries? Do you really think that outside of America, everybody's favorite habit is to shoot their neighbors?)... Of course (sarcasm)! Third world countries shoot themselves all the time. The good american people should help them out. After the country is "free", we'll occupy them and shoot civilians, use White phosphore on civilian cities and aim for their cars in their capital. That's not something important.

What I hate about religion is that people take what they think is good and leave what doesn't help them. For example: "Thou shalt not kill".

The basis of every religion, every true belief in this world, even in philosophy, is:
"Do not do something to somebody else that you wouldn't like him to do to you." (The true version is far more developped, it's called the "Golden Rule", and its main specialist is a highly religious philosopher called Gensler)

I'm sure the "FREE" people of Iraq would like to receive a bullet in the head from the people who supposedly came to prevent the country's violence. According to YOUR religion, to every belief in the world, from the Muslim Coran to the precepts of Confucius in old China, this is an immoral, inethical, senseless act.

The good deeds of America in Iraq:
1. The country is not under dictature anymore
2. The capture of Saddam Hussein

Bad deeds in Irak
1. Fallujah and WP
2. Abu-Grahib prison
3. Shooting civilians
4. Not paying the people for 3 months
5. Giving Iraq's security contract to an american security company (Aegis)
6. Taking over the oil business
7. Terrorism in Iraq apeared

Okay, Saddam Hussein needed to be out of his place, I agree. Did you really need to invade the country, occupy it, starve the communities, kill civilians with WP, torture the prisonners? I don't think these have a link with Saddam's capture. That's not the help of America that the Iraqis need, it's humanitarian help, and a new country for the Kurds.

Aw man, talk about isolationism, recism, and prejudice (have you been outside of the West countries? Do you really think that outside of America, everybody's favorite habit is to shoot their neighbors?)... Of course! Third world countries shoot themselves all the time.

Yes, I am quite well travelled, and have seen a lot of the Third World first hand, and seen more atrocities first hand than probably all of the people on this forum combined.

"Investigations" aren't the answer, but neither is pulling out. Pulling out will only make things worse. We made this mess, we'd better bloody well fix it.

I am sooooo tired of hearing that dog-eared line! The Iraqi leadership have asked us to leave! What more incentive do we need?!?! They want to deal with it on thier own, let them! Spend the money that's been allocated for training their own forces, and get out. That's what THEY want.

Yes, I am quite well travelled, and have seen a lot of the Third World first hand, and seen more atrocities first hand than probably all of the people on this forum combined.

Mmmh... Tell me about it... Now read the rest, and explain me why somebody following christianism (where they say: "Thou shalt not kill", Love and respect everybody", and finally where they talk about the golden rule) might say it's not important if soldiers shoot the civilians they came to free.

That's up to you. Who am I to push my interpretation of Christianity on you?
Well, your interpretation leaves you better armed, so I guess I should follow that :)

Mmmh... Tell me about it... Now read the rest, and explain me why somebody following christianism (where they say: "Thou shalt not kill", Love and respect everybody", and finally where they talk about the golden rule) might say it's not important if soldiers shoot the civilians they came to free.
1. They are not US Soldiers. The people in question are private contractors - and it's not even clear if the contractors are Americans (A Scottish company and a man with a Scottish accent makes this rather low odds).

2. I'm not responsible for someone else's sins. In fact, it would be sinful for me to try and account for them.

1. They are not US Soldiers. The people in question are private contractors - and it's not even clear if the contractors are Americans (A Scottish company and a man with a Scottish accent makes this rather low odds).

2. I'm not responsible for someone else's sins. In fact, it would be sinful for me to try and account for them.

Ahhh, the Pontius Pilate approach. I hope you use Oxy Clean (tm) to wash your hands, it's the best stain fighter there is.

Ahhh, the Pontius Pilate approach. I hope you use Oxy Clean (tm) to wash your hands, it's the best stain fighter there is.

Nope, I'm just not casting the first stone.

There are no clues as to the shooter but either a Scottish or Irish accent can be heard in at least one of the clips
Jesus! They can't tell the bloody difference between an Irish accent and a Scottish accent.

Gabriel Byrne..... Sean Connery

*sigh*

But 'Hired' nut job's have nothing to do with a 'war' now do they?
"The company was recently awarded a £220 million security contract in Iraq by the United States government."
"This is now a matter for the American authorities because Aegis is under contract to the United States."
I believe they're called mercenaries?

1. They are not US Soldiers. The people in question are private contractors - and it's not even clear if the contractors are Americans (A Scottish company and a man with a Scottish accent makes this rather low odds).
True, but look at this paragraph from the article:
The Foreign Office has also confirmed that it is investigating the contents of the video in conjunction with Aegis, one of the biggest security companies operating in Iraq. The company was recently awarded a £220 million security contract in Iraq by the United States government. Aegis conducts a number of security duties and helped with the collection of ballot papers in the country's recent referendum.

It's a British company that has a contract with the US government to provide security. Now you tell me--how much responsibility the US government should take for their actions, and what should be done as regards their contract?

"The company was recently awarded a £220 million security contract in Iraq by the United States government."
"This is now a matter for the American authorities because Aegis is under contract to the United States."
I believe they're called mercenaries?

Today they are called Private Security Contractors.

"The company was recently awarded a £220 million security contract in Iraq by the United States government."
"This is now a matter for the American authorities because Aegis is under contract to the United States."
I believe they're called mercenaries?
Doh! Beat me. :D

Today they are called Private Security Contractors.
Same difference.
Doh! Beat me. :D
I'm amazing myself here - then again, even I am sometimes quick on the draw :D

Same difference.

I'm amazing myself here - then again, even I am sometimes quick on the draw :D

You have a legal problem with it?

Members of the UK's SAS are routinely given unpaid leave to join mercenary corporations in order to gain real-world experience - without leaving the service.

Okay, I have to say that this company is a private corporation... Employed by the US... and that received a 220 million euros contract... And that they *are not* called mercenaries.

Thing is (and I've gotta say I'm wrong myself when I say America should retract, because I mean the Coalition forces should retract. They're a whole, even though I usually say "Americans", sorry ^^) that the problem remains. Until the investigation ends, Aegis' contract should be suspended, due to non-respect of Iraqi citizens.

I'm not saying you are, personnally, a sinner. I'm saying that you can't agree that these murders (because that's what these are) are acceptable. It's impossible to agree with these and even less when you follow the golden rule, and the most importants tenets of the Christian faith (just for the record, I'm agnostic, neither religious nor atheist).

Okay, I have to say that this company is a private corporation... Employed by the US... and that received a 220 million euros contract... And that they *are not* called mercenaries.

Thing is (and I've gotta say I'm wrong myself when I say America should retract, because I mean the Coalition forces should retract. They're a whole, even though I usually say "Americans", sorry ^^) that the problem remains. Until the investigation ends, Aegis' contract should be suspended, due to non-respect of Iraqi citizens.

I'm not saying you are, personnally, a sinner. I'm saying that you can't agree that these murders (because that's what these are) are acceptable. It's impossible to agree with these and even less when you follow the golden rule, and the most importants tenets of the Christian faith (just for the record, I'm agnostic, neither religious nor atheist).

You would have to prove it was murder first. And I'm not casting the stone first. You are.

Look you can call them 'privateers', 'private security contractors', 'merc's' or 'billy-jim bob's group of death' for all it makes a difference to what their actions are.

A rose by any other name... ;)

Dont call the mercenaries "contractors."

It makes what they do seem legitimate or half-way-decent.

Iraq: Now there are "contractors" (i.e. paid sociopaths) doing the exact things that war supporters are claiming aren't happening.


I assume that this is a company with limited liability....:p

I really don't see how anyone can support this. The company should be suspended while the investigation goes on, and those responcible punished.

My personal opinion here is that there's only an investigation when it gets out to the media, and that this happens, and is accepted, on a much more widespread scale. Of course I can't back this up with links or whatnot, so I don't expect anyone to agree with me, but this is how I see it.

To DK:

You brought up a passage in the Bibele about a cloak and a sword, but what about:
"Beat your swords into plowshears"
"If a man would sue you and take your cloak, give him your coat as well"
"If a man strikes you on your right cheek, offer him your left cheek to strike"
"Love your enemies"
"Help those who do you wrong"
et cetera

Yes, I am quite well travelled, and have seen a lot of the Third World first hand, and seen more atrocities first hand than probably all of the people on this forum combined.

I don't believe you.