NationStates Jolt Archive

I've noticed that nobody notices that the American culture is extremely ageist against teens and people younger than that. They are constantly underestimating our understanding of the world, and over estimating our capability to make mistakes. There are adults who treat people of a younger age as if they are not capable of inteligent conversation, I find this quite aggravating, and wish to understand the roots of this problem.

You'll understand when you're older.

I can make my social studies teacher flinch just by raising my hand.
If that isnt power, I dont know what is ;)

Because you neither have nor deserve any rights, outside the following:


Not to be molested -often
Not to be beaten to death -often
Roof over head -sometimes
Food and water -sometimes


Anything else and you're being spoilt!

I remember pissing off my Social Studies teacher twice back in middle school,
The first time was when she started talking about how Ivory came from Pearls. And the second time was when she started going on about the Soviet Union. (In 1997!!) She did not like the fact that I just sat there and said "you're wrong." at the end of her speech.

Because you neither have nor deserve any rights, outside the following:


Not to be molested -often
Not to be beaten to death -often
Roof over head -sometimes
Food and water -sometimes


Anything else and you're being spoilt!

You are also to be billed for you childhood when you leave home.

The last time mine got mad at me was for pointing out that 'Aphganistan' is spelled with an 'F' :P

Young people are raised in particularly authoritarian conditions because it makes them more willing to accept authority later, particularly at work. It's a form of taming, domestication if you will.

You are also to be billed for you childhood when you leave home.
When you leave home? When you leave your mother, you mean!
"I carried you for nine months, I was in labor for 20 hours, and you have such a big head."

You have the right to:

Life: Check.

Liberty: Check. (Actually nobody has this anymore. So why should you?)

The Pursuit of Happiness: Pursue all you like. Nobody guarantees success. :)

One thing to remember is that the rights granted by the constitution doesn't prevent consequences due to the exercise of those rights. I find that when I was younger that I was under the false impression that just because I had the right do do certain unwise things that made it allright to do so. Actions still have consequences.

Adults are afraid of us:)

When you leave home? When you leave your mother, you mean!
"I carried you for nine months, I was in labor for 20 hours, and you have such a big head."


Sorry, I should have clarified "You will be billed for your childhood and distress costs from the childbirth when we throw you out at age 16"

Adults are afraid of us:)

Hah! My teenaged years are the reason why adults don't trust YOU anymore! :p

I am a teen... and i get treated like ****
I can understand why. This is a tough time, and its every1 elses job to make it tougher. Adults took it bad as a teen, so do we. High school... So much pleasure and freedom... yet so much pain and aggony. I think its a fair trade off. Anyways all the suicides in this time strengthen the gene pool... lol
Just remember though, teens have a very large buying power. These are for people ages 13-21. Got them from time mag
1: Make up more then half of the Movie Magizine and Music market
2: Make more 4 times as many trips to the mall then the average adult
3: Make up a quarter of all donations to intrest groups (even political parties)
4: Consume more gas then most Adult Drivers outside the city
5: More then a quarter of all Laptop sales are from Teens
6: Spend the most during the Holiday Season and recieve the second most (behind children 13 and under)
7: Spend 10+ more hours online per week then most adults and
8: Buy 2 times more off line then adults
Finally a big one here
9: Bring adults allong to Movies, Malls, and Online which leads to more buying.
Teens buying power is second to that of Baby Boomers...
So please don't be so hard on us

You are also to be billed for you childhood when you leave home.
Damn straight! Actually I've been paying my mum's mortgage since I left home. It's my way of giving something back.

I've noticed that nobody notices that the American culture is extremely ageist against teens and people younger than that. They are constantly underestimating our understanding of the world, and over estimating our capability to make mistakes. There are adults who treat people of a younger age as if they are not capable of inteligent conversation, I find this quite aggravating, and wish to understand the roots of this problem.
A lot of teenagers tend to overestimate their maturity level. Look at my sister, she's 17, likes to pretend she's going on 30, but when things don't go her way, you'd mistake her for 2.

I remember pissing off my Social Studies teacher twice back in middle school,
The first time was when she started talking about how Ivory came from Pearls. And the second time was when she started going on about the Soviet Union. (In 1997!!) She did not like the fact that I just sat there and said "you're wrong." at the end of her speech.
Perfect illustration. The fact that you were right does not offset your intention to publically embarass your social studies teacher. The general rule is "Praise in public, punish in private" or, failing that, "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."

Adults are afraid of us:)
It's the trauma from having had to keep you from killing yourselves between the time when you learn to walk and about age 3.

Manaisha... American Culture doesn't under estimate us... just look at the channels we have

MTV MTV2 FUSE BET BRAVE E! FOX NOGGIN
Look at all the comercials geared to us. All of them have hot teams looking happy
Look at all the Tv shows and Stations with programs geared to us
They don't underestimate us.... they over estimate us
All the songs and Movies with teens about broken hearts
They know we are weak and heathenistic... they play to that, and hell do we spend our money to satisfy our wants

It's the trauma from having had to keep you from killing yourselves between the time when you learn to walk and about age 3.

Tell me about it! If my son is out of my sight for more than a minute, he discovers a new and innovative method of self-destruction! He climbed into the toilet yesterday! :p

I remember pissing off my Social Studies teacher twice back in middle school,
The first time was when she started talking about how Ivory came from Pearls. And the second time was when she started going on about the Soviet Union. (In 1997!!) She did not like the fact that I just sat there and said "you're wrong." at the end of her speech.
I would be pissed to, but maybe because I find it more resonable for my studants to kindly offer CONSTRUCTIVE critizim in public ("your wrong" is hardly constructive)
though it is much smarter to take that sort of correction in an after class one on one sort of setting rather then saying a simple "your wrong" infront of the class

(I am in no way saying this teacher should not have been called on it but there are smarter and dumber ways to do it)

Hah! My teenaged years are the reason why adults don't trust YOU anymore! :p
my point exactly, adults know what teeagers can be like and when they see us they rember what they were like and start shaking in their boots:)

Ok... teens who try and kill them selves
1: Look for attention and should die
2: Don't think straight and should be comforted
3: Seriously hurt and should be helped

1 kid in my school tried to kill him self 18 times and this weekend he tried the 19th... hes a moron.... i am gunna help him 1 of these days.
Not all of us are like that... a lot of us are
But its a good thing... xcept 4 those who manage to survive and just won't die

It's the trauma from having had to keep you from killing yourselves between the time when you learn to walk and about age 3.
I started to crawl when i was 5months old, no wonder they are afraid:)

i am gunna help him 1 of these days.

If you wait too long, he won't be there for you to help...

I suppose this is a respons to my thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=456257)?

Tell me about it! If my son is out of my sight for more than a minute, he discovers a new and innovative method of self-destruction! He climbed into the toilet yesterday! :p
My dad bought security plugs for every electrical outlet in the house, I'd tell you why, but I guess you can imagine. I also discovered not all plants are edible.

Ok... teens who try and kill them selves
1: Look for attention and should die
2: Don't think straight and should be comforted
3: Seriously hurt and should be helped

1 kid in my school tried to kill him self 18 times and this weekend he tried the 19th... hes a moron.... i am gunna help him 1 of these days.
Not all of us are like that... a lot of us are
But its a good thing... xcept 4 those who manage to survive and just won't die

JEEZ! :eek: I really hesitate to make light of someone's suicidal tendencies, but 18 tries?!? How is this kid trying to off himself? Paper cuts?!?

Adults are afraid of us:)

You're so right. But it doesn't stop at the teenage years. There's a huge "no man's land" between childhood and adulthood. Or at least between the age where other kids think you're a kid, and where other adults think you're an adult. Drives me nuts. Now they're just ALL afraid of me! :headbang: :D

i don't know how he tried 2 kill him self... but hes obviously searching for attention and should die.... thats it.... no need 4 the spawn of his

Ok... teens who try and kill them selves
1: Look for attention and should die
2: Don't think straight and should be comforted
3: Seriously hurt and should be helped

1 kid in my school tried to kill him self 18 times and this weekend he tried the 19th... hes a moron.... i am gunna help him 1 of these days.
Not all of us are like that... a lot of us are
But its a good thing... xcept 4 those who manage to survive and just won't die
Survival of the fitest. I support making life more dangerous for stupid people...

I suppose this is a respons to my thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=456257)?
Your thread was more about having had a crappy day and blaming it on ageism. This is more about ageism itself.

(Though, if you ask me, kids have it easy these days. When I was your age I had to walk 10 kilometres each way, under the sun, at 35°C, uphill both ways, just so that someone would scream at me. Now kids feel they'd had it rough if you don't treat them like they're the bloody king of France.)

:)

Oh, poor teenagers. :rolleyes: Cry me a fucking river why don't you...

Oh, poor teenagers. :rolleyes: Cry me a fucking river why don't you...
I couldn't have said it better myself

Oh, poor teenagers. :rolleyes: Cry me a fucking river why don't you...
shall we build a bridge as well????:)

If you older people want to build it... and then charge us to walk on it
Go ahead... u know were good with spending money

I'm not only talking about social status. I'm talking about general knowledge. I have figured something out, there are a few concepts that it's definetely easier to grasp at a younger age, because your mind is more maleable, than during college when they are taught. I won't go into them, it'd take forever. There is being told that I'm not allowed to learn some math, because I couldn't possibly understand it, the proof to the pythagorean theorem in seventh grade. It's very easy to understand, but our teachers thought that we were too young. Many adults don't talk to teens, or anybody younger as if they can understand a word. We can't learn anything if we aren't even spoken to as if we are intelligent. I don't deny that there are some very stupid teens, but there are some stupid adults too. There's one adult who picked up a computer mouse and asked if it was the power cord. Maybe if we weren't expected to go wrong as teens, we wouldn't. Maybe we need a better education.

10 Reasons for Adult Biases:

1)The girl who wants a $200 dollar pair of jeans because it's what all her friends are wearing.
2)The boy who tries to overdose on catnip.
3)The kid next door who doesn't care whether or not you have to work in the morning, only that he just bought the newest and loudest yet cd from his favorite rap group and hasn't heard "Pimp my Bitch" for the 5,000th time yet.
4)The boy who thinks he looks good with his pants hanging down around his kneecaps.
5)The girl who looks like a hot 20 year old until she turns around and you realize that she's only 13.
6.The girl who ran over your antique lawn gnomes while learning how to drive when she got a call on her cell phone from the boy with the saggy pants.
7.The juveneille delinquent who drinks all of your liquor and smokes all of your pot with his friends while your at work trying to afford the payments for his braces.
8.The teeny bopper who insists on practicing her cheerleading routine while your trying to read that new book. "The night was- Gimme an M- unbearably chilly-Gimme an I!"
9.The boy who thinks that his right to unprotected sex is more important than your right to live once his girlfriend's parents find out they were doing it in your basement whilst you were at work trying to save up for his braces.
10.You can't take a kid who is wearing braces seriously no matter how hard you try.

10.You can't take a kid who is wearing braces seriously no matter how hard you try.

Lols to the entire list, but that there is so true.

the proof to the pythagorean theorem

There is not only one proof of the Pythagorean Theorem. There are a lot of them. And some of them would be too difficult for you to understand. Obviously the one you saw wasn't.

I couldn't have said it better myself

The really funny thing is that, as someone said at the start of the thread, they will get it only once they're older, and they will also share the same sentiment of really not feeling sorry for their spoilt, teen asses.

Hey, you shouldn't have pot in the first place. What about talking down to kids and teens. Have you ever looked at some of the textbooks we're given, they have nice illustrations and horrible grammer, I look at the answers to figure out what the questions mean, because they think that they can get away with it. It's not as if they think teens can understand anyways. Teen magazines, those that I've deigned to look at are horribly written, and don't mention anything that could be of possible practical use. They tell you to buy make-up, and imply that what celebrities do is more important than our governments policies. This is a teenage girl talking about how stupid TEEN mags are. The ones that do talk about important topics are junk, they aren't as good as the adult ones.

Hey, you shouldn't have pot in the first place. What about talking down to kids and teens. Have you ever looked at some of the textbooks we're given, they have nice illustrations and horrible grammer, I look at the answers to figure out what the questions mean, because they think that they can get away with it. It's not as if they think teens can understand anyways. Teen magazines, those that I've deigned to look at are horribly written, and don't mention anything that could be of possible practical use. They tell you to buy make-up, and imply that what celebrities do is more important than our governments policies. This is a teenage girl talking about how stupid TEEN mags are. The ones that do talk about important topics are junk, they aren't as good as the adult ones.

"OMG, noes, teen mags are stupid!!!"

And that was today's "living in a first world nation" problem.

I've noticed that nobody notices that the American culture is extremely ageist against teens and people younger than that. They are constantly underestimating our understanding of the world, and over estimating our capability to make mistakes.
DAMN! My evil scheme to subtly erode the self-confidence and independence of the young has been found out! Now I will have to abandon plans #568C-#1,234Q for taking over the world.
I'd have gotten away with it if it weren't for you meddling kids!

All joking aside, I think that you have too much angst. Children aren't treated with disrespect, just condescension.
Now get the Hell off my lawn!

Hey, you shouldn't have pot in the first place. What about talking down to kids and teens. Have you ever looked at some of the textbooks we're given, they have nice illustrations and horrible grammer, I look at the answers to figure out what the questions mean, because they think that they can get away with it. It's not as if they think teens can understand anyways. Teen magazines, those that I've deigned to look at are horribly written, and don't mention anything that could be of possible practical use. They tell you to buy make-up, and imply that what celebrities do is more important than our governments policies. This is a teenage girl talking about how stupid TEEN mags are. The ones that do talk about important topics are junk, they aren't as good as the adult ones.
Most textbooks have mistakes in them. If you're lucky, the answers in the back of the book are right.
Also, if I recall, teen magazines had some rather relevant information about puberty and sex ed type topics. But other than that, they made me feel like shit, which is why I stopped reading them at 12.

The ones that do talk about important topics are junk, they aren't as good as the adult ones.
Well, then buy adult ones. Not Time or Newsweek, 'cause they suck. The Economist is good, at least it doesn't try to be hip.

Teens get no respect, but they DO get all the attention these days...most advertising is directed at you, there are more products available for your age group, and really, it's all about YOU. Movies, games, music...come on now. If we gave you respect, there would be no angst...and with no angst, teens would cease to exist, all the products aimed at you would become meaningless and the global economy would collapse.

Do you understand now, punk? It's survival!!!:fluffle:

What was that sign my teacher in high school had... oh yes.

Teenagers!
Move out now and get a job while you still know everything!

Yup, that pretty much sums it up. While teens are more than capable in many situtions, they also do not have the experiance, and most STILL assume:

1. They do know everything
2. They are invinceable (or nothing bad would EVER happen to them!)
3. The world revolves around them.

Still, no matter what their parents or teachers think, most do grow up, eventually, to become (somewhat) responciable adults... Lunatic Goofballs not withstanding. ;)

Why don't we pay attention to ageism against young people? Because we don't have to--you can't hurt us in any real way (other than by getting my daughter pregnant, and trust me, you don't want that kind of drama with me). :D

Seriously, though--as a class you have no political pull, and your economic pull is limited to the amount of money your parents give you or that you earn at your entry-level positions. Nobody needs you, so you get discriminated against. Shit flows downhill, and you're at the bottom of the hill.

the text book also has pretty little pics that are good for 5 yearolds. But still, if we learn something, we might as well try to prove it. You don't know what our capacity is until you test it. Kids can suprise you, if only you give them the support they need. I'm not talking about stupid materialistic things like i-pods, or 200 dollar pants, I don't care about those. I think that buying pants for any more than 20 dollars is STUPID. but that's besides the point. The point is that we aren't given enough of a chance to stretch our intelectual bounds, We arent given a chance to prove ourselves full capable members of society. Say there is an adult party. Some adults will see me and strike up a nice conversation, eventually they'll ask me what age I am. As soon as I state my age they start dumming down their speech, and get very uncomfortable. That's not right.

But seriously folks…teens have a point. It’s probably the toughest stage in life, all that uncertainty and hormones…would any of you really want to go through it again? Sure, there are no responsibilities in terms of having to work (for most) or support themselves…but those years are anything but carefree. The pressure is enormous…you are forced to make serious choices without the benefit of having all the information. Sex? Mixed messages abound. Drugs? Same deal. Peer pressure? Bullying? Suicide? All topics we don’t want to deal with, but all topics extremely relevant to teens. I’ll take the job and the responsibilities of a parent over being a teen ANY DAY. I have confidence now, I’m sure of myself, and I know how to get any information that is not made readily available to me. Not so when I was a teen.

Most teens aren't asking just for respect...they're asking for some real fucking information about things that adults don't really want to talk about. But we can't really help them, because we just grew out of it...we didn't actually figure it out when we went through it.

Say there is an adult party. Some adults will see me and strike up a nice conversation, eventually they'll ask me what age I am. As soon as I state my age they start dumming down their speech, and get very uncomfortable. That's not right.
I like these forums for exactly this reason. I always assume posters are my age or older...and I treat them as my equals. When I find out they are (often) quite a bit younger, it's too late...I've already discovered that they're pretty smart, and can hold a conversation (usually), so my attitude towards them doesn't change too much. In real life, I admit, I avoid teens. Because I spent years teaching them, and really, you need a break:)

Teens get no respect, but they DO get all the attention these days...most advertising is directed at you, there are more products available for your age group, and really, it's all about YOU. Movies, games, music...come on now. If we gave you respect, there would be no angst...and with no angst, teens would cease to exist, all the products aimed at you would become meaningless and the global economy would collapse.

Do you understand now, punk? It's survival!!!:fluffle:

Rofl. I've gotta hand it to you - I think you've figured it out! It's all about creating teen angst, because teen angst makes the world go round. So a thousand years ago, things weren't nearly what they are now, just because the teenagers were considered adults, and nobody was trying to keep up the teen angst level.

Rofl. I've gotta hand it to you - I think you've figured it out! It's all about creating teen angst, because teen angst makes the world go round. So a thousand years ago, things weren't nearly what they are now, just because the teenagers were considered adults, and nobody was trying to keep up the teen angst level.
Well, it is interesting to see the differences in 'teens' from a historical perspective...the whole take on childhood actually. The teen years have not always been a time of emotional chaos.

Right now, in the West, teens are merely consumers...branded from infancy. No wonder they are looking for some sort of worth beyond that. Unfortunately, they keep finding solace in products, even though I think they (and many adults as well) are trying to escape that dependency on material definitions of identity.

But seriously folks…teens have a point. It’s probably the toughest stage in life, all that uncertainty and hormones…would any of you really want to go through it again? Sure, there are no responsibilities in terms of having to work (for most) or support themselves…but those years are anything but carefree. The pressure is enormous…you are forced to make serious choices without the benefit of having all the information. Sex? Mixed messages abound. Drugs? Same deal. Peer pressure? Bullying? Suicide? All topics we don’t want to deal with, but all topics extremely relevant to teens. I’ll take the job and the responsibilities of a parent over being a teen ANY DAY. I have confidence now, I’m sure of myself, and I know how to get any information that is not made readily available to me. Not so when I was a teen.

Most teens aren't asking just for respect...they're asking for some real fucking information about things that adults don't really want to talk about. But we can't really help them, because we just grew out of it...we didn't actually figure it out when we went through it.

Oh, now you're crying me a river too, Sinu. Those are problems? Please. I'll give them problems!

Young people are raised in particularly authoritarian conditions because it makes them more willing to accept authority later, particularly at work. It's a form of taming, domestication if you will.

If teens these days are being "tamed" then why is this generation of children the worst behaved, the rudest, cruelest, most disrespectful to their parents, and treat their peers the worst of any generation?

It could be that adults discriminate against teenagers because they know what their parents are like. It's possible that there may be a laxness in parenting that is creating children without proper values. And it has nothing to do with religion. Consider the following examples and you are welcome to call me on it if it seems too far-fetched:

Vandalism
Scenario: Little Johnny has just hit a baseball through the neighbors window. Irate neighbor comes over yelling "Hey! Your kid just hit a baseball through my window!"

Old style parent response:
"I'm terribly sorry about that and little Johnny will be paying to have your window replaced out of his allowance."

New style parent response:
"How do you know it was my kid?"

Theft
Scenario: Little Johnny comes home and shows you the candy bar he shoplifted from the local convenience store.

Old style parent response:
Drag little Johnny back to the store, make him confess to the theft, apologize, and pay for the candy bar.

New style parent response:
"Oh come on! Don't do that! You are going to get arrested for shoplifting!"

Integrity
Scenario: Little Johnny and little Timmy are horsing around in the living room when there is a crash. Parent runs into the living room to see two startled looking children and a broken lamp.
Parent: "Allright, who broke the lamp?"
Johnny and Timmy (simultaneously): "He did it! Did not! Did too!" (repeat ad nauseam)

Old style parent response:
"Well the two of you are going to stand in the corner until one of you fesses up. And I can sit here all day and wait if that's how long it's going to take."

New style parent response:
*sigh* "I don't have time for this. Just clean it up, ok?"

I'm under the belief that the economy can change, and keeping the economy exactly as it is now is no reason to treat teens as if they had no brain capacity whatsoever. Maybe if schools paid more attention to treating students like humans there would be fewer bad teens. At my school they do that, and people who go to my school turn out well mannered, and most of us at least a tiny bit away from the main stream of the main stream. There's something to be said for treating people like humans at a young age. Anyway, it'd be a lot easier on parents and teachers alike if they got us well behaved earlier. I've written about a billion essays on it. I will send one of them to anyone, on request.

People don't pay attention to ageism because there is no ageism. Why? Because there are kids nowadays who think they know it all. I mean, look at kids in school. "Oh, I don't need to know this. I already know this. This is stupid." Oh yeah? Well, if you know it, then who was the first Roman emperor to publically accept Christianity? Don't know? Then sit down and shut up.

When I was a teenager, I understood my place, and understood that I didn't know it all, and that there was still alot that I had to learn before anyone would take me seriously. I knew that I had to earn my way in life, and that my dad will only open his wallet so many times. After that, it's up to me to make it on my own. Where am I right now? I have a house, a running car, a business to call my own, and a loving girlfriend whom I'm hoping to make my wife.

I treat teenagers like adults, because doing so makes them feel like adults. It's not necessarily a bad thing to make them feel like an adult, because it's preparing them for when they are an adult. I mean, once they hit 18, you can't just start talking normally to them, after babying them along for the last 17 years of their life.

When I have kids, possibly next year, I'll show them that they have to learn to follow before they can lead, and that nothing in life is free except for God's love and air. Everything else costs money, and has to be earned.

I run into kids every day who think they understand things that they just don't get. My main problem with kids is that there are some of them who are so incredibly cocky. Even if you're right, they still argue. Why? Because they have a false sense of understanding.

If you think you're a victim of "ageism", you're not, because you don't understand that if we don't agree with you, or tell you you're wrong, it's not "ageism". If you want to stop ageism, act your age and understand that there are still some things in life that you just don't understand. Not saying that that's wrong or anything, because there's stuff I still don't understand. I don't care if you got an A on a math test, there's still alot of stuff that you have yet to learn, and while it may not be written down in a book, it's still very important and determines what you'll make of yourself in life.

I've noticed that nobody notices that the American culture is extremely ageist against teens and people younger than that. They are constantly underestimating our understanding of the world, and over estimating our capability to make mistakes. There are adults who treat people of a younger age as if they are not capable of inteligent conversation, I find this quite aggravating, and wish to understand the roots of this problem.

Most teens ARENT capable of an intelligent conversation. Most girl teens are too worried about fashions, trends, and how much they can "love" a friend of theirs after only a week of knowing him or her. Most boy teens are too busy jacking off or trying to be a jock or fit in. In my experiences, less then 3% of teens should be considered "intelligent". Get a job, punks, your able bodied by 15. :cool:

Here's something that I've lived by:
"If you want to be treated like an adult:
-Act like an adult
-Treat others like an adult
-Accept consquences like an adult."

In life, there is no "Treat us like adults, but not if we do something wrong!"

the text book also has pretty little pics that are good for 5 yearolds. But still, if we learn something, we might as well try to prove it. You don't know what our capacity is until you test it.
...My quantum mechanics textbook from last year had a cat on the front and back of it. Granted it was supposed to be Scrhodinger's cat, but it's nice when textbook authors have enough humour to include funny little diagrams and the occasional joke.
Furthermore, you may indeed be smart, but that doesn't mean your classmates are. If you want to be able to stretch your intellectual wings, then try qualifying for a gifted class or a gifted school... perhaps do some independant reading outside of class and teach yourself something. It's not impossible, if you have a library card, nobody's going to deny you access to certain books 'cause you're a kid. (Unless your library has a porn section anyways...)

Foe Hammer, I understand your point exactly. I'm not claiming that kids know everything, I also don't claim that someone older than me disagreeing with me is ageist. If I were like that I'd claim my mom was ageist for making me do my fair share of the household tasks. Adults have to see that despite having more worldy expierience than teens, they forgot lots of what they learn, and teens have at least some expierience. I've made lot's of money for other people. I'm not the sort of spoiled person who thinks that if my parents don't buy me everything I want they're ageist. They are simply using thier superior knowledge IN THAT CASE to make a better judgement than me. Maybe there'd be fewer kids like that if, oh say, we were treated as if we could understand, and taught more about business and money at a younger age.

But seriously folks…teens have a point. It’s probably the toughest stage in life, all that uncertainty and hormones…would any of you really want to go through it again? Sure, there are no responsibilities in terms of having to work (for most) or support themselves…but those years are anything but carefree. The pressure is enormous…you are forced to make serious choices without the benefit of having all the information. Sex? Mixed messages abound. Drugs? Same deal. Peer pressure? Bullying? Suicide? All topics we don’t want to deal with, but all topics extremely relevant to teens. I’ll take the job and the responsibilities of a parent over being a teen ANY DAY. I have confidence now, I’m sure of myself, and I know how to get any information that is not made readily available to me. Not so when I was a teen.
I suppose that was the advantage of being a social pariah. I didn't have to deal with any of that shit until I was an adult. Well, not suicide, I've never considered that at all.

I didn't read every post, so forgive me if I am repeating something.

You are young. It isn't an insult. It is a fact. It sucks sometimes, and we've all been there. No one with a brain ever said life was fair.

The reason you feel like everyone is so condescending is because you think you know alot more than you do. Experience cannot be underestimated. Reading about something, or hearing stories about something is by no means a substitute for living it.

One thing I think you are failing to understand is that you are saying all adults are assholes who don't listen to you, and thats just as bad as an adult not wanting to hear you're opinion because your young.

There are adults who will listen to you, and even respect you if you prove yourself to them. Most people demand proof of knowledge before they will give you their ear.

Be patient, young grasshopper. Your time will come. And you will have a nice chuckle about how right we were when we told you something that you had never experienced.

Child hood doesn't last forever. Go cause a little bit of hell, and do something dumb. You won't have the chance much longer, and you will kick yourself in the ass later if you miss the opportunity.

Just have fun, and be kind to all who are kind to you.

And drink a beer for christs sake. Just don't get caught! ;)

By the way, as well as mistaken kids who think that they own the world, what about the many equally arrogant adults who are under the belief that noone, especially a kid, could possibly know anything that they didn't.

Not all adults are assholes, don't get me wrong. Many of my very best friends are adults. Why should I go out and do something absolutely idiotic just because I'm young, why should I drink something that tastes as horrible and has such stupid side affects as a beer. No offense to those who think that beers taste absolutely smashing. And please don't say I've got no expierience under my belt, I've got less, and a different type. I've found that the most interesting adults are the ones who remember what it's like to be a kid, and therefore act like what they thought adults should act like, and also remember that they tend to be more responsible than kids. Talk to me as if I'm an adult, and still remember to nag me.

Well, it is interesting to see the differences in 'teens' from a historical perspective...the whole take on childhood actually. The teen years have not always been a time of emotional chaos.

Right now, in the West, teens are merely consumers...branded from infancy. No wonder they are looking for some sort of worth beyond that. Unfortunately, they keep finding solace in products, even though I think they (and many adults as well) are trying to escape that dependency on material definitions of identity.

Quite so. A couple thousand years ago, "teenagers" didn't exist. In most cultures, kids got married at like 12 or 13 or so. Nothin' like a good dose of marriage and pregnancy to control those hormones, eh? Seriously though, the entire idea of an "inbetween" age where you aren't a child OR an adult is a modern concept which, in my opinion, has done a huge disservice to society and all those inflicted with it.

And it's growing, too. People aren't wanting to "settle down" and "grow up" until thier 30s these days. They've been taught their whole lives that life is about posessions, so they don't want to have children until they've got everything they could ever want. They've been taught that good parenting will be spoiling your kid rotten, so they want to be so financially secure they can do it "right" before they have kids. And I shudder to think what THOSE kids are going to be like!

Maybe they'll get married at 13 and bring us full circle.

Hey, if I do something wrong, and my parents find out I'm busted. My mom will take away my books, take the door off my room, and make me work in her office. That's about all she can do, though, because I don't go anywhere, or do anything much but read. I do think that people my age should have better discipline. If we were discipined better we'd all be more mature, we would be able to assert ourselves at an adult level more quickly, and we wouldn't have a lot of idiots who spend every pay check on drugs and booze because they were never taught better. I certainly believe in discipline. Discipline is nessecary.

By the way, as well as mistaken kids who think that they own the world, what about the many equally arrogant adults who are under the belief that noone, especially a kid, could possibly know anything that they didn't.
Much the same way it works in here: be prepared to defend your facts with outside references. Sometimes, getting your point across may take as much work as writing a term paper, but when you can finally drive your point home, then it was all worth it.

One thing that has taken me thirty some-odd years to figure out and the one thing that I'm still working on: accept responsibility for everything that happens in your life. People are not going to change because you want them to, so the only alternative is to change how one interacts with them. It's like the saying goes:"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem." My own corollary to that: "If you are not willing to implement a solution, then you must not have a problem."

Tell you teens what .... if you don't like the way you're treated or how things are goin', just go down to the polls and vote on propositions and whatnot to ... wait ... you can't vote?

Oh ok. Well, then how about you hop in your car after work tomorrow and run down to City Hall and put your name on the ballot for City Council and .... wait, you have no driver's license, job, and can't hold public office?

Oh ok. Maybe you should talk to your landlord and make arrangements for .... wait, you can't be bound by legal or civil contract until you're 18?

Never mind ... just shut up and go do your homework.

It has only taken me around thirteen years to figure out that nobody, including myself, has all the answers, and we'd better not act like we do, incase somebody comes along and pushes us off of our very large ego. See, even a teen understands that. Now the trick is to make both grownups and other teens understand it too.

Hey, even if I can't vote, or drive, or get into public office I am not utterly useless. I can walk, I can use public transportation, I can catch a lift. I can also use my charming smile, to draw the attention of suprised people. I can then tell them that they really ought to donate money to such and such, or support such and such, and because I'm really so charming and sweet they'll give me money for whatever cause. You really can't discount the next generation of adults as useless. Not that I see myself as charming.

It has only taken me around thirteen years to figure out that nobody, including myself, has all the answers, and we'd better not act like we do, incase somebody comes along and pushes us off of our very large ego. See, even a teen understands that. Now the trick is to make both grownups and other teens understand it too.
Unfortunately, you can't make anyone understand anything they are not interested in understanding. Sometimes, teaching is like sales: create a desire for knowledge and then fill it. There may be plenty of things that you want people to learn, but unless they want to learn them too, it's not going to happen.

I think the big problem you're not realising here is that there is no ageism against the young. There can't be. While being a teen is something you cannot help as it is genetically coded, it is something that is 100% cureable.

Now go clean your room.

Ageism is a real thing. Many adults are tainted by their experience. They are too caught up in the past and cannot accept that their kids will be the next in line to rule the world. The environment is which we live is changing, but adults do not understand the changed circumstances of their kids.

Look at school. There are some really good teachers/administrators out there that help you to learn, you can take your problems to them about class and even problems about life.

Other teachers/administrators are setting the kids up for a rough start to life. They use strict control to keep kids under control. That is very bad for the future: Everything they learn will be reflected later in life. The first 18 years of a persons life is taking place in the schools and this molds them until old age. If kids grow up under the strict authoritian control of adults, they will rebel against it or completely reject it. Can you really blame them?

Oh, I know all the adults out there will be saying, what control? Ha. When was the last time you were in school? You can get suspended for wearing a coat in school, because weapons can be hid inside. Cameras are lined up and down each hall. Campuses are closed, so kids must pay high prices for monopolized food in lines that extend almost the whole lunch period. The food itself is glop. There is no right to vote about things that need to be changed. For every problem the school discovers, there are just more restrictions against the students. This is the life of kids before adulthood.

Now lets compare that to college. Overall, the point of college is the same, just furthering education. Except now you are viewed as a human not just a teen. Everything is open and free. Open campus, open classes, open lunch, as long as you do not disturb people in class you can do whatever. Why is that? Cause everyone there is viewed as an adult and is capable of an opinion. During the course of a summer you change from a worthless restricted teen to a competent college student. Is this true? No. It is the change in environment, not the character of the person.

Hey, even if I can't vote, or drive, or get into public office I am not utterly useless. I can walk, I can use public transportation, I can catch a lift. I can also use my charming smile, to draw the attention of suprised people. I can then tell them that they really ought to donate money to such and such, or support such and such, and because I'm really so charming and sweet they'll give me money for whatever cause. You really can't discount the next generation of adults as useless. Not that I see myself as charming.

Coulda fooled me.

Really, the problem is kids who think know everything about everything when combined with adults who KNOW that kids know NOTHING about ANYTHING. Mostly those adults, not to generalise or anything, are men in their mid forties who go to work in a suit and have thinning, graying hair. The kids are mostly public school drop-outs or private school wankers (I'm sort of a cross between the two...)

Reverse Gravity, I couln't of stated better what you said. I understand the true differences between kids and adults. I remember being a four year old and thinking I was a big kid. I remember being insulted at being called cute or little. Now if people call me little or cute, and treat me like a human, I don't care. If they call me an adult and treat me like I don't count, I am not happy. There shouldn't be a cutoff, you should treat people on a case by case basis, there are some younger kids who I can talk about something complicated with, and some with whom it is best to stick to the here and now, same with some older people. The problem is treating everybody who's a kid like they don't count. There are some teens who could get on fine with few restrictions, and some college students who need a few more rules.

Campuses are closed, so kids must pay high prices for monopolized food in lines that extend almost the whole lunch period. The food itself is glop. There is no right to vote about things that need to be changed.

Campuses are closed because there are those who have proven that they cannot be trusted. They go off and drink and smoke during the lunch period, and sometimes get into accidents. It's safer to keep them at the school. Besides, it would have a negative impact on local businesses, having to staff even MORE workers (Burger King and Arbys are busy enough on a lunch break... I go there sometimes between uni and work) during the lunch rush. But anyway, it's safer to keep them at school, because if you're at school, in a desk or at a table, you have much less of a chance of drinking, smoking and dying in a car accident. Car accident-related deaths occured alot at my former high school, and I've lost a few friends in high school that way... so I'm really one for keeping kids off the roads as much as possible.

And I know what some of you will say: Open campus for everybody that doesn't drink and smoke and get into trouble. Why not? Because the new-school parents of the troublemakers will whine about how their kids are being singled out. It's not so much society's fault for your limited freedoms, it's parents who can't learn to control their kids and keep them from doing illegal things.

Until kids can be trusted, we have to limit their freedoms for exactly the reason you stated: you are the future generations. We must protect the future generations until they can protect themselves.

The problem with teenagers is they want adults to back off, to recognise that they are more mature, to treat them like adults: FOR NO REASON!!! They don't do anything to prove that they are in fact mature and sensible and deserving of respect. They bitch and whinge about how they aren't taken seriously, how people talk down to them, how noone respects them. NEWSFLASH: You don't get respect as a birthright. You have to earn it. Teens say; if you treat us like adults we'll act like adults. How about acting like an adult, act maturely, and you'll get treated maturely, and like an adult.

I am a teen... and i get treated like ****
I can understand why. This is a tough time, and its every1 elses job to make it tougher. Adults took it bad as a teen, so do we. High school... So much pleasure and freedom... yet so much pain and aggony. I think its a fair trade off. Anyways all the suicides in this time strengthen the gene pool... lol
Just remember though, teens have a very large buying power. These are for people ages 13-21. Got them from time mag
1: Make up more then half of the Movie Magizine and Music market
2: Make more 4 times as many trips to the mall then the average adult
3: Make up a quarter of all donations to intrest groups (even political parties)
4: Consume more gas then most Adult Drivers outside the city
5: More then a quarter of all Laptop sales are from Teens
6: Spend the most during the Holiday Season and recieve the second most (behind children 13 and under)
7: Spend 10+ more hours online per week then most adults and
8: Buy 2 times more off line then adults
Finally a big one here
9: Bring adults allong to Movies, Malls, and Online which leads to more buying.
Teens buying power is second to that of Baby Boomers...
So please don't be so hard on us

Now, I'm pretty fair, as an adult who still admittedly has a mind more likened to a teenager . . sometimes.. but still, just because you have buying power and have some knowledge does NOT mean you know everything! There is still a LOT to learn outside of high school - mortgage, what happens when you don't pay your apartment rent on time, what happens when your utilities are shut off, working 36 hours a week at Walmart and still not qualifying for health insurance because technically you're not a fulltime employee! (not to mention the anxiety medication that isn't covered) and much, much more! There's a damned good reason the elected President must be 35 or over!
Keep a cool head. Don't treat people older than you like crap, and hopefully they will respect that in turn, and treat you nicer.
oh and btw, I'm 32, soon to be 33, and I got you beat in every category.

They don't do anything to prove that they are in fact mature and sensible and deserving of respect. They bitch and whinge about how they aren't taken seriously, how people talk down to them, how noone respects them. NEWSFLASH: You don't get respect as a birthright. You have to earn it. Teens say; if you treat us like adults we'll act like adults. How about acting like an adult, act maturely, and you'll get treated maturely, and like an adult.
Well, from experience, respect in much harder be earned for a teenager. No matter how mature teens are, adults do not treat them with respect! If they do earn a little bit of respect by a good deed, it gets taken away at the first opportunity at the first fumble. That is the point of this topic. Adults are just incapable of accepting that a person younger than they are to be mature individuals.

What you have said is a loop. Teens try to act like a adults, but are not treated like adults in return. Keep your side of the bargain and you will see that teens are capable of being mature. Otherwise both sides will remain in struggle until bad things happen.

You'll understand when you're older.
The nice part about Monkeypimp's message, which was the very first response...

It's so true...but also, kind of funny, considering it's kind of ageist...

But in all honesty, I tried so hard not to start treating teens like I always got treated...but recently, the teens have crushed my hopes of giving them the respect I thought I deserved when I was that age.

Find a marketable skill. Exploit.

For me, this meant becoming *very* good at computers. By the time I was 14 I was doing consulting work for a couple clients. This adult interaction served as the basis for future (and current) successes. Prove your worth with actions. Sure, some people will always look down on you because you're younger, but when everyone comes to you for help you can use it as leverage.

As a result of those computer skills, highschool was quite entertaining. Teachers and administrators called on my services so often it got to the point I could basically do what I wanted.

Now I just need to figure out this "oh crap I'm almost in the real world" thing :P. High school may have been easy, but college and work aren't.

Don't fret too much about ageism. Adults generally tend to suck it up and altogether stop when you independantly show yourself capable.

And the source of teen buying power? Parents. 20-somethings don't spend much because they generally don't have much to spend and have to take care of themselves. After that, people stop being interesting in blowing money so much. Why spend $40 in 1 month for 3 trips to the movie theaters when that'll cover a months worth of cable, etc.

Ageism is a real thing. Many adults are tainted by their experience. They are too caught up in the past and cannot accept that their kids will be the next in line to rule the world. The environment is which we live is changing, but adults do not understand the changed circumstances of their kids.

Look at school. There are some really good teachers/administrators out there that help you to learn, you can take your problems to them about class and even problems about life.

Other teachers/administrators are setting the kids up for a rough start to life. They use strict control to keep kids under control. That is very bad for the future: Everything they learn will be reflected later in life. The first 18 years of a persons life is taking place in the schools and this molds them until old age. If kids grow up under the strict authoritian control of adults, they will rebel against it or completely reject it. Can you really blame them?

Oh, I know all the adults out there will be saying, what control? Ha. When was the last time you were in school? You can get suspended for wearing a coat in school, because weapons can be hid inside. Cameras are lined up and down each hall. Campuses are closed, so kids must pay high prices for monopolized food in lines that extend almost the whole lunch period. The food itself is glop. There is no right to vote about things that need to be changed. For every problem the school discovers, there are just more restrictions against the students. This is the life of kids before adulthood.
Cry me a river. I had to deal with leaving my coat in my locker too, it sucked, yeah, but whatever, it didn't last long, I finished highschool and didn't have to deal with it.
Furthermore, if you don't like the food they serve on campus, bring your own.
See, part of childhood is that you are more restricted, but you have no real responsabilities. Enjoy that while it lasts.

Now lets compare that to college. Overall, the point of college is the same, just furthering education. Except now you are viewed as a human not just a teen. Everything is open and free. Open campus, open classes, open lunch, as long as you do not disturb people in class you can do whatever. Why is that? Cause everyone there is viewed as an adult and is capable of an opinion. During the course of a summer you change from a worthless restricted teen to a competent college student. Is this true? No. It is the change in environment, not the character of the person.
I'd say it's the fact that you fork over a couple grand in tuition and have at least proven yourself mature enough to make it that far that makes the difference. Plus you're probably moving away from home, which causes you to grow up a lot, then there's the fact that you have to pay for rent, pay for food... it's amazing how much you grow up in one year when you leave home, so yeah, there is a huge difference. You are left to succeed or fail on your own merits, you're not coddled anymore or spoon fed answers. There's a reason college is a lot different and it's not just age.

All those people who say that kids haven't experienced real life. I'll take real life experiences where the kid has more monetary knowledge and common sense than the adult. 1. the adult forgot that he needed his passport to go to Denmark. 2. the adult forwarded all his missed calls on their cell phone to his parents house phone, costing them both a ton of money. 3. the adult is set on setting up a trellis using two rectangular disgusting pieces of fencing. In all these cases the kid knew the adult was being stupid. I know that kids are stupid often, because they don't always know what has been proven not to work. Kids also often think about a problem in an entirely different way than many adults, and thus solve many silly problems. I wish all of you people who say that kids don't have experience would back it up with specific examples. I say there are many adults who come to kids thinking that kids don't have any brain capacity, knowing this from experience. These people think that if they don't have some sort of activity there's no way to connect. I'm not saying I'm for openly undermining your teachers authority during class, or that some rules, like don't stay in the bathroom for any longer than needed are stupid. I fully understand the need to make new rules when the old ones aren't working, even adults have them, they're called laws. I'm not fighting against rules and common sense, I'm fighting against not having a chance to be taken seriously.

All those people who say that kids haven't experienced real life. I'll take real life experiences where the kid has more monetary knowledge and common sense than the adult. 1. the adult forgot that he needed his passport to go to Denmark. 2. the adult forwarded all his missed calls on their cell phone to his parents house phone, costing them both a ton of money. 3. the adult is set on setting up a trellis using two rectangular disgusting pieces of fencing. In all these cases the kid knew the adult was being stupid. I know that kids are stupid often, because they don't always know what has been proven not to work. Kids also often think about a problem in an entirely different way than many adults, and thus solve many silly problems. I wish all of you people who say that kids don't have experience would back it up with specific examples. I say there are many adults who come to kids thinking that kids don't have any brain capacity, knowing this from experience. These people think that if they don't have some sort of activity there's no way to connect. I'm not saying I'm for openly undermining your teachers authority during class, or that some rules, like don't stay in the bathroom for any longer than needed are stupid. I fully understand the need to make new rules when the old ones aren't working, even adults have them, they're called laws. I'm not fighting against rules and common sense, I'm fighting against not having a chance to be taken seriously.
You'll get taken a lot more seriously if you stop acting like a small child throwing a tantrum and just speak your mind. Hell, on here, nobody knows how old you are unless you tell them. You can speak your mind and engage in intelligent discussion with anyone, jump into any of the threads that are here... instead you're just sitting here and pouting about it.
Yeah, life sucks and then you die. Stop bitching about how much it sucks in the one place where your particular grievance doesn't matter and go talk to people who can't tell that you're a kid and as a result will likely treat you as an adult unless you give them reason not to.

I say there are many adults who come to kids thinking that kids don't have any brain capacity, knowing this from experience.

I would disagree with you. Kids have enormous amounts of brain capacity. It's just that adults would like to see them fill up some of that capacity with experience before giving them respect. That's actually what is the greatest asset for young people: capacity.

Don't worry. Once you hit 23-25, you will be the hottest commodity there is in the job market. That's the perfect age that someone can hire you and expect that you will have a reasonable chance of working for them for 20 years or more.

You'll get taken a lot more seriously if you stop acting like a small child throwing a tantrum and just speak your mind. Hell, on here, nobody knows how old you are unless you tell them. You can speak your mind and engage in intelligent discussion with anyone, jump into any of the threads that are here... instead you're just sitting here and pouting about it.
Yeah, life sucks and then you die. Stop bitching about how much it sucks in the one place where your particular grievance doesn't matter and go talk to people who can't tell that you're a kid and as a result will likely treat you as an adult unless you give them reason not to.
Thats the same exact BULLSHIT that comes from adults. Here we are in a forum making intelligent posts with supporting details, and here people are bullshitting about tantrums and how teens are so inexperienced. :headbang:

Quit your bitching. You kids have it too good. And stay off my lawn! (shakes cane)

Whenever I see this topic, I'm reminded of a Cat Stevens song...

Father
It's not time to make a change,
Just relax, take it easy.
You're still young, that's your fault,
There's so much you have to know.
Find a girl, settle down,
If you want you can marry.
Look at me, I am old, but I'm happy.

I was once like you are now, and I know that it's not easy,
To be calm when you've found something going on.
But take your time, think a lot,
Why, think of everything you've got.
For you will still be here tomorrow, but your dreams may not.

Son
How can I try to explain, when I do he turns away again.
It's always been the same, same old story.
From the moment I could talk I was ordered to listen.
Now there's a way and I know that I have to go away.
I know I have to go.

Father
It's not time to make a change,
Just sit down, take it slowly.
You're still young, that's your fault,
There's so much you have to go through.
Find a girl, settle down,
if you want you can marry.
Look at me, I am old, but I'm happy.

Son
All the times that I cried, keeping all the things I knew inside,
It's hard, but it's harder to ignore it.
If they were right, I'd agree, but it's them you know not me.
Now there's a way and I know that I have to go away.
I know I have to go.

Well, from experience, respect in much harder be earned for a teenager. No matter how mature teens are, adults do not treat them with respect! If they do earn a little bit of respect by a good deed, it gets taken away at the first opportunity at the first fumble. That is the point of this topic. Adults are just incapable of accepting that a person younger than they are to be mature individuals.

What you have said is a loop. Teens try to act like a adults, but are not treated like adults in return. Keep your side of the bargain and you will see that teens are capable of being mature. Otherwise both sides will remain in struggle until bad things happen.

When I was a teenager, I felt exactly the same way. Then I grew up. The reason that adults give adults more respect, is not because of "good deeds" or because they can discuss world events intelligently, although these are excellent traits. Adults get respect from other adults because most adults have earned it. Many adults work, they have homes, they have completed their education. Working 15 hours a week at your local KFC does not give you an insight into the working world. Giving your mum and dad $10 a week does not teach you about paying rent.

It is not a loop. Teenagers whinge and bitch about getting respect from adults. How about, instead, you try going to school, and listening to your teacher, doing your homework, obeying the rules of your parents and your teacher, and not worrying about getting told how great you are because you sneezed. When teenagers demonstrate that they are worthy of respect, they may just get it. Unfortunately, the majority of teens seem hell-bent on demonstrating just how little they differ from a 2 year old who can't get his own way.

Whenever I see this topic, I'm reminded of a Cat Stevens song...

I love that song!

Thats the same exact BULLSHIT that comes from adults. Here we are in a forum making intelligent posts with supporting details, and here people are bullshitting about tantrums and how teens are so inexperienced. :headbang:
Because that was an immature tantrum-like post. Pointing out the idiocy of one adult in no way makes all kids smarter than all adults or for that matter, that particular kid smarter than that particular adult.
Would you like some examples of kids being stupid?
Let's see, one of my bf's friends, at 17 would uproot plants, for sale signs, bend street signs, steal, deal drugs, destroy shit for no reason, set four partially constructed houses on fire et c.
Now, does that mean I get to take that example and use it to say that everyone under 18 is stupid? No. That one particlar kid was stupid (he's smartened up now fortunately) Manaisha hardly provided an intelligent post with supporting deatails there.

And you know, I really don't care about the plight of those whose parents look after every detail of their lives, whether they're 16 or in their 20s (like those Gotti kids) and like I said, if you want to be treated like an adult then go forth and post something somewhere on this message board that doesn't reveal your age right away. If you say you're capable of participating in intelligent discussion, then go ahead and do so, nobody here can tell how old you are without you telling them. Yeah, it's not the real world, but it's a start isn't it?

I've noticed that nobody notices that the American culture is extremely ageist against teens and people younger than that. They are constantly underestimating our understanding of the world, and over estimating our capability to make mistakes. There are adults who treat people of a younger age as if they are not capable of inteligent conversation, I find this quite aggravating, and wish to understand the roots of this problem.

Oh. I'm sorry. Did you say something?

I don't read teen magazines. Never was interested in them. Instead, I read Time, New Scientist, Scientific American, and my dad's US News and Economist.

Three news magazines and two science ones.

Also, regarding school lunches: my school found a way to let kids eat what they want AND save money - they don't serve lunch. Kids bring their own (or buy from the student council-run Snack Shack).

What I think is really different about today's youth is political awareness. Middle-schoolers are bashing Bush, and high-school kids regularly debate politics at lunchtime.

Well, everyone keeps saying that you have to respect others before one can get respect, so maybe some ideas on how to respect others might be in order?

1. Acknowledge people. When you see someone for the first time in a day, "good morning" is appropriate. Even if you are not having a good morning, do it anyway. Generally because you have acknowledged someone one, then they have to acknowledge you, because failure to do so just makes them look like an ass.

2. Ask permission. People do appreciate it when you consider their input on decisions. Of course with asking permission, there is the chance of being denied, but if it's over trivial things, you really haven't lost much.

3. Ignore rudeness. It's much easier to treat you with rudeness if you are rude in return and they are not going to take into account that they may have started it. If you continue to treat someone with respect despite the fact that they are being rude to you, they will have to back off a bit because it just makes them look like an ass.

4. Take responsibility. Whenever two people interact, things can go wrong. Saying "I'm sorry" even if you don't think it's your fault, or especially when it isn't your fault can go a long way when it comes to earning respect.

The problem with both teens & adults is that they just don't listen. This is not unique the situation between teens & adults--in the case of any controversial issue where little progress is ever made, we will find two sides which do not respect each other & do not heed each other's statements. This is simply one of those problems with humans in general which drives me nuts, even at the same time as I am flagrantly guilty of it.

People always want to get something for nothing. This mindset is not eliminated with maturity, only repressed. It seems that the only cure for this is willpower & trying really hard. As much as some of the suggestions in PasturePasty's last post really stick in my craw when it's my turn to implement them, I cannot deny that they accomplish their goals in a substantial majority of cases.

all I'm asking for, in so many words, is for adults, not all, to stop being so condescending. I did not wish, in any way, to imply that all adults are stupid, that is a blanket generalization, and blanket generalizations tend to be wrong. Please note that I never said all, and rarely say most, my most often used term is many. I have no sympathy for kids who are entirely their parents pets, all I want is for kids to be given a chance at respect, instead of the immediate response of many adults being condescending upon the first meeting. My philosophy is, smart and inteligent being until proven otherwise, NOT stereotypical (insert group here) until proven otherwise. I would hope that others would approach people that way too.

I've noticed that nobody notices that the American culture is extremely ageist against teens and people younger than that. They are constantly underestimating our understanding of the world, and over estimating our capability to make mistakes. There are adults who treat people of a younger age as if they are not capable of inteligent conversation, I find this quite aggravating, and wish to understand the roots of this problem.

I've never had a problem with ageism. Well, my dad's treated me like shit because I'm at "that" age, but then, he's just that way. Aside from him, nobody else.

Tell you teens what .... if you don't like the way you're treated or how things are goin', just go down to the polls and vote on propositions and whatnot to ... wait ... you can't vote?

Oh ok. Well, then how about you hop in your car after work tomorrow and run down to City Hall and put your name on the ballot for City Council and .... wait, you have no driver's license, job, and can't hold public office?

Oh ok. Maybe you should talk to your landlord and make arrangements for .... wait, you can't be bound by legal or civil contract until you're 18?

Never mind ... just shut up and go do your homework.

IOW: Patience is a virtue...

The teen years would work well, for the intelligent to learn patience... Waiting for their time where they can take action in the world.

Why doesn't anybody pay attention to ageism against young people?

Because we're older, wiser, more experienced, and we have all the money.

:D

We don't HAVE to listen to your whine about why we don't treat you as equals under the roofs that we pay to provide you, in your room that you can't even show enough responsibility to keep clean, at the dinner table that you refuse to help prepare or clean up after, or with our car that we paid god money for and now a goddamn hefty premium for insurance to cover your inexperienced ass in.

You want to be treated as an equal?

BE ONE!

And when you are, you will understand. And that is when you and your parents will enter a new phase of your relationship based on friendship and mutual respect without the emotional overhead of authority.



I know you don't want to hear that. I know you will write that off to "agism". But there is a reason why every single generation goes through this, and in 15 years you will understand it intimately.


Which isn't to say that older people should treat the ideas of the young with disrespect or contempt. But by the same token, when a more mature person tries to explain to you some caveats and forces that you are dismissing - maybe you should treat their experience with a little more respect too. They might just have seen a wee bit more than you, and experienced it in personal ways that they care not to divulge while trying to explain to you why there are practical limitations to your theories.

Here's an interesting fact:
In the fourth grade, my teacher called a conference with my parents to discuss a one or two-year advance.
In the fifth grade, I was reading Clancy novels. Before that year was up, I had gotten through Red Storm Rising, Hunt for Red October, Patriot Games and The Sum of All Fears.
In the sixth grade, I took a reading test and was told that I have a college reading level.
In freshman year of high school, I was taking upperclassman courses. Algebra II and the like, Honors English, etc.

I STILL understood that I was a kid. I understood that I had no clue what real life was like. My credentials (what I read, how fast I read, how fast I type, how many math problems I understood) mean absolutely nothing in regards to my maturity and how much respect I received. I still had to earn everything, respect included.

Personally speaking, I haven't really felt many teen pressures (aside from the odd burst of hormones but who hasn't?) comes with the territory I guess having never really become anyone in the grand social scheme of things.

All I ask is that I'm treated like a human being. I'll be courteous to you and expect the same back, not being talked to like I'm some snot-nosed little 7th year student when I'm doing my A2 levels.

I know plenty academcally and I know enough to say I don't know much about the 'real' world (planning to start my own business in the new year, to say it's been a learning experience would be a major understatement) I'll accept that I'm inexperienced in the adult world but I'm willing to learn if I'm given the chance.

For the record, I get 20 pounds a month pocket money and my parents do not get me designer clothes or any other stuff like that. I want it, I pay for it, if I don't want to pay for it it's not worth getting.

I've noticed that nobody notices that the American culture is extremely ageist against teens and people younger than that. They are constantly underestimating our understanding of the world, and over estimating our capability to make mistakes. There are adults who treat people of a younger age as if they are not capable of inteligent conversation, I find this quite aggravating, and wish to understand the roots of this problem.

I disagree, this culture is centered around youth. The elderly are the ones getting tossed out the window, unfortunately.

A friend of my sisters (former friend) was called into his school office one day for a bomb threat... They were talking to him, and he persistently denied it. So finally he cracks and says...

"If it had been me, this place would be a crater!"

However, it does piss me off that people look at me when I'm walking down the street in all black (I wear black for many reasons, one being that it's warm) and they shy away. Only one person really does the counter when I go into the apothecary to get candy... Also, I have had no trouble getting around with adults. Ask my neighbors, parents, and other people. They think I'm fine. However, stereotyping of teens pisses me off. I've never felt pressured by a teen issue... I'm happy with the way I look, I'm not interested in drugs, I don't give a damn what's going on in lalaland... I spend my lunch period studying, eating, and having political debates with my friends.

Having a high degree of intelligence does not entitle you to respect. Being able to have political debates with friends does not entitle you to respect. Working far above your age level in academics does not entitle you to respect. They do not prove that you are mature. They prove that you are intelligent, articulate and able to achieve academically.

If you want to be treated as an equal, quit school. Get a full-time job and pay for half of everything. Catch the bus or train until you have enough money for a car. Pay half the bills, study in your spare time and go to nightschool if you want to get your HSC/Senior Certificate.

Whilst your parents are buying you clothes, paying your school fees, buying your food, paying for your phone calls, your electricity use, your internet, your public transport, fuel to drive you around, etc.; you know absolutely nothing about the real world. You are not equal, and you don't deserve to be treated as such.

Perfect illustration. The fact that you were right does not offset your intention to publically embarass your social studies teacher. The general rule is "Praise in public, punish in private" or, failing that, "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."
Actually I pointed that out because since some of my class mates believed anything I didn't want them to go around believing both of those 'facts'
I didn't hate her, I just don't like it when anyone gets something wrong.
Oh and UpwardThrust I said more than just 'You're wrong' I more likely said, "Actually they come from pearls and The Soviet Union dissolved at the beginning of the 90s." Of course she said 'no they didn't.'

Why doesn't anybody pay attention to ageism against young people?
That's because the term only applies to the aged.