NationStates Jolt Archive

Before I say anything I would like to state that when two people enter into a relationship which they agree is supposed to be exclusive to outside partners I think it is wrong to cheat. It's like lying.

What I'm asking is if there are any good reasons for people to be upset about not being in exclusive relationships. Besides cultural bias, of course.

Does it really harm you if your boy-friend or girl-friend has sex with another person? It seems like saying they shouldn't rely on any other person for emotional support- and that doesn't seem like something a lot of people get upset about as opposed to sex which is reason enough for some people to murder.

You sound like a playa. :cool:

I don't know. Probably jealousy based, although there is the obvious issue of STDs.

I don't know. Probably jealousy based, although there is the obvious issue of STDs.
Is that a reason to be opposed to one night stands to?

Something about "morals" makes cheating wrong... But since I have few of those pesky things as it is...:)

Something about "morals" makes cheating wrong... But since I have few of those pesky things as it is...:)
Shouldn't morals be based on some sort of rational basis?

As far as I'm concerned, if you aren't in an exclusive relationship, you can't cheat.
Although it is a bad idea to have many sexual partners at once, due to disease and the like. (plus if a pregnancy results there will be many paternity tests to run...)

Before I say anything I would like to state that when two people enter into a relationship which they agree is supposed to be exclusive to outside partners I think it is wrong to cheat. It's like lying.


You're not talking about cheating. You're talking about open relationships. And I don't think there is anything wrong with them as long as all people involved are aware of the arrangement, and consent to it.

It works well for me and my husband, and for many others. Cheating, on the other hand, seems to be more socially acceptable for some very sick reason.

As far as I'm concerned, if you aren't in an exclusive relationship, you can't cheat.
Although it is a bad idea to have many sexual partners at once, due to disease and the like. (plus if a pregnancy results there will be many paternity tests to run...)
As long as you are careful about who you sleep with, you should be okay.

You're not talking about cheating. You're talking about open relationships. And I don't think there is anything wrong with them as long as all people involved are aware of the arrangement, and consent to it.

It works well for me and my husband, and for many others. Cheating, on the other hand, seems to be more socially acceptable for some very sick reason.
I know the term. Honestly, I thought this thread title would draw more attention though :p

I know the term. Honestly, I thought this thread title would draw more attention though :p
True.

But seriously...people seem to be more 'comfortable' with infidelity than they are with honest non-monogamous relationships based. WTF!!!

Anything that falls within the mutually agreed upon boundaries a couple sets for themselves can't be considered cheating.

how can it be cheating if you dont have an agreement on exclusivity?

its sometimes unwise but it cant be cheating.

now, if you are suggesting that you would try to FORCE your girlfriend into accepting an open relationship you have to be willing to lose her over it. she is not being unreasonable to insist on exclusivity. open isnt for everyone.

how can it be cheating if you dont have an agreement on exclusivity?

its sometimes unwise but it cant be cheating.

now, if you are suggesting that you would try to FORCE your girlfriend into accepting an open relationship you have to be willing to lose her over it. she is not being unreasonable to insist on exclusivity. open isnt for everyone.
I was going to post the exact same thing, with you around there really isn't any use for me is there?:(

It isn't cheating unless you are in a commited relationship (that is commited to eachother only, the way I understand it swingers are in some sort of commited relationship, but I don't understand it at all)

God doesn't like cheating, however he loves bigomy.

Well, it depends on what you believe the geneology of morals is. Many say they were invented by God while others say they were invented by whiny slaves and so on and so forth.

Before I say anything I would like to state that when two people enter into a relationship which they agree is supposed to be exclusive to outside partners I think it is wrong to cheat. It's like lying.

What I'm asking is if there are any good reasons for people to be upset about not being in exclusive relationships. Besides cultural bias, of course.

Does it really harm you if your boy-friend or girl-friend has sex with another person? It seems like saying they shouldn't rely on any other person for emotional support- and that doesn't seem like something a lot of people get upset about as opposed to sex which is reason enough for some people to murder.
There are some evolutionary reasons. Though how much they apply in today's society is up for debate.

Speaking from an evolutionary viewpoint, a woman has an advantage if she can secure someone who will work to protect and aid her during a pregnancy when she would have a more difficult time doing so herself. In order to secure a male to do this, she has to provide something that encourages him to stick around -- such as by guarunteeing that the progeny is his.

For men, there's an evolutionary advantage to being sure that no other man has impregnated the same woman, simply because it lowers the chances of the child being yours. In order to secure a female to do this, he has to provide something that encourages her to stick around -- such as by guarunteeing he won't be distracted by somebody else when she needs him to protect and aid her.

So that's the evolutionary basis for monogamy.

Coming against that though is that both sexes want to make sure their genes survive and prosper (because humans that don't have that desire tend to be bred out of the race over the long term), which is why our standards of beauty tend toward those people who look like they will live the longest (ie, healthy, symmetrical, tall, etc.) and also part of why people cheat. The men have an evolutionary advantage if they can get their seed in as many women as possible, the women have an evolutionary advantage if they can get the best possible man to impregnate her. (This also tends to explain why men tend to cheat more -- the quality of the womb isn't as important as the quantity)

You're not talking about cheating. You're talking about open relationships. And I don't think there is anything wrong with them as long as all people involved are aware of the arrangement, and consent to it.

It works well for me and my husband, and for many others. Cheating, on the other hand, seems to be more socially acceptable for some very sick reason.

I've been meaning to ask you out for a drink...

the quality of the womb isn't as important as the quantity
Waterkeep keeps it real.

Before I say anything I would like to state that when two people enter into a relationship which they agree is supposed to be exclusive to outside partners I think it is wrong to cheat. It's like lying.

What I'm asking is if there are any good reasons for people to be upset about not being in exclusive relationships. Besides cultural bias, of course.

Does it really harm you if your boy-friend or girl-friend has sex with another person? It seems like saying they shouldn't rely on any other person for emotional support- and that doesn't seem like something a lot of people get upset about as opposed to sex which is reason enough for some people to murder.
Well besides a lot of the ingrained biological drives to create a stable family unit ... I would say the risk of exposing your loved one to STD's is a fairly good reason

Coming against that though is that both sexes want to make sure their genes survive and prosper (because humans that don't have that desire tend to be bred out of the race over the long term), which is why our standards of beauty tend toward those people who look like they will live the longest (ie, healthy, symmetrical, tall, etc.) and also part of why people cheat. The men have an evolutionary advantage if they can get their seed in as many women as possible, the women have an evolutionary advantage if they can get the best possible man to impregnate her. (This also tends to explain why men tend to cheat more -- the quality of the womb isn't as important as the quantity)

What about those people that just like sex and would hate to have a child.

My theory. Guys can have sex a lot with no fear of being pregnant for 9 months perhaps why they cheat more, a girl that cheat and gets pregnant is in a much worse situation.

Speaking from an evolutionary viewpoint, a woman has an advantage if she can secure someone who will work to protect and aid her during a pregnancy when she would have a more difficult time doing so herself. In order to secure a male to do this, she has to provide something that encourages him to stick around -- such as by guarunteeing that the progeny is his.

But not necessarily ALL the progency. If she has 3 children for instance, it is an evolutionary advantage to let one of them be seeded by that sexy stripper whose seed is more likely to be widely spread. While not telling that detail to the poor sob who will take care of it of course.

Taking it further: the animalkingdom has various species who are not monogamous, but instead rely on "familybonds". If you die, your genes still live on in your sister for instance. This causes them to be willing to show "altruistic" behaviour: one individual lures the predator so the others can escape.

(This also tends to explain why men tend to cheat more -- the quality of the womb isn't as important as the quantity)

If men actually cheat more is debated by some - the number of children who are NOT seeded by the official father could be higher than most suspect (and like to think about).

Shouldn't morals be based on some sort of rational basis?
They should, but it's a rational basis which has to deal with non-rational beings. Jealousy and a sense of betrayal are deep-routed instinctive feelings, born out of the evolutionary need to ensure the survival of one's own genes. Since these instincts cause pain, the rational moral stance is not to give rise to them.

They should, but it's a rational basis which has to deal with non-rational beings. Jealousy and a sense of betrayal are deep-routed instinctive feelings, born out of the evolutionary need to ensure the survival of one's own genes. Since these instincts cause pain, the rational moral stance is not to give rise to them.

Are you a Utilitarian OOI?

What I'm asking is if there are any good reasons for people to be upset about not being in exclusive relationships. Besides cultural bias, of course.

Does it really harm you if your boy-friend or girl-friend has sex with another person? It seems like saying they shouldn't rely on any other person for emotional support- and that doesn't seem like something a lot of people get upset about as opposed to sex which is reason enough for some people to murder.

got to ask..

whats the point in being in a 'non-exclusive' relationship?

your either in a relationship or not. I guess you could be fuck-buddies... but then that's just casual sex with a friend instead of a stranger. hmphf...

To be perfectly honest when I first read the title to this thread I thought you were speaking of cheating as in cheating on a test or at a game. :headbang:

To be perfectly honest when I first read the title to this thread I thought you were speaking of cheating as in cheating on a test or at a game. :headbang:

yeah me too

your either in a relationship or not. I guess you could be fuck-buddies... but then that's just casual sex with a friend instead of a stranger. hmphf...

And what is wrong with that ? (which is somewhat the point of this topic;))

Some people are also capable of being in love with more than 1 person at the same time. Should they suffer because not everyone is wired that way ?

Other people prefer "family units" or "communes" of multiple people living together, sharing everything - including partners and responsibility for the children - over the traditional 2-partner bond. While it is not for me (I am too jealous and possesive) I do not see anything wrong with that. It certainly has good possibilities to offer children a stable place to grow up in, with lots of attention of loving parents (maybe even 5 parents ;)) and several playmates of the same age.

Hey, it's a Brave New World these days - "promiscuity is every citizen's duty"

Before I say anything I would like to state that when two people enter into a relationship which they agree is supposed to be exclusive to outside partners I think it is wrong to cheat. It's like lying.

What I'm asking is if there are any good reasons for people to be upset about not being in exclusive relationships. Besides cultural bias, of course.

Does it really harm you if your boy-friend or girl-friend has sex with another person? It seems like saying they shouldn't rely on any other person for emotional support- and that doesn't seem like something a lot of people get upset about as opposed to sex which is reason enough for some people to murder.
It takes a great deal of maturity to accept an "open" relationship. The tendency for jealousy to rear its ugly head is always present. Possessiveness seems to be a key component of "love" for many people.

yeah me too

I'm not alone...:D

And what is wrong with that ? (which is somewhat the point of this topic;))

Some people are also capable of being in love with more than 1 person at the same time. Should they suffer because not everyone is wired that way ?

Other people prefer "family units" or "communes" of multiple people living together, sharing everything - including partners and responsibility for the children - over the traditional 2-partner bond. While it is not for me (I am too jealous and possesive) I do not see anything wrong with that. It certainly has good possibilities to offer children a stable place to grow up in, with lots of attention of loving parents (maybe even 5 parents ;)) and several playmates of the same age.

but that's not the same as a non-exclusive relationship is it? That's poligamy, etc

Non-exclusive is (IMO) "i want to be in a relationship with you, but i still want to be able to fuck around if i want!"

but that's not the same as a non-exclusive relationship is it? That's poligamy, etc

Depends on your definition. If you consider "exclusive with more than 2 people involved" a valid relationship you are right.

Non-exclusive is (IMO) "i want to be in a relationship with you, but i still want to be able to fuck around if i want!"

I assume for most people a relationship is more than just fucking. I personally also have a variety of activities I like to do with my gf, but also with other girls. Talking. Going to the cinema. Eating food in front of the tv. I assume some people just do not make such a fuss about sex and put it in the same category...

Does it really harm you if your boy-friend or girl-friend has sex with another person? It seems like saying they shouldn't rely on any other person for emotional support- The reason that humans tend to start relationships with another person is to get some amount of emotional support from that person. It wouldn't be a good idea to rely on this support, but if a person didn't want it they wouldn't bother with the relationship in the first place.

Depends on your definition. If you consider "exclusive with more than 2 people involved" a valid relationship you are right.

I assume for most people a relationship is more than just fucking. I personally also have a variety of activities I like to do with my gf, but also with other girls. Talking. Going to the cinema. Eating food in front of the tv. I assume some people just do not make such a fuss about sex and put it in the same category...

well i'm basing my opinions on the original post which refers to non-exclusive as sleeping around. Not talking, eating, etc. with other people except your girlfriend/boyfriend.

Well aside from pregnacny and sexual diseases, if it's open, it's not a completly horrible idea

I guess differant people would handle cheating differantly. However I'm sure everyone would be at least a bit hurt if they were cheated on.

It's natural to feel thus. If your partner becomes involved with another person, then the chances of that relationship being destroyed and the cheating partner abandoning the cheated increases drastically. Any offspring from the relationship are left with children that are harder to raise. It hits at the family and bond that holds people together in society from their infantcy. Whether or not someone is legally married, the couple psychology still applies.

Before I say anything I would like to state that when two people enter into a relationship which they agree is supposed to be exclusive to outside partners I think it is wrong to cheat. It's like lying.
That's all well and good but we have to remember that being "exclusive" to one person is a strictly cultural construct with little or no basis in objective medical or biological fact. Animals with multiple partners have healthier offspring with higher white blood cell counts. In most situations, the father of a litter isn't even the social companion of the mother.

This isn't to say that animals are a proper barometer for establishing one's marital morality, but their biological needs are often a good insight into ours. No human being on the planet has felt a biological compulsion to mate for life, and I would be willing to bet monogamy was non-existent before the rise of Christianity [which, as we all know, fucked everything up.

What I'm asking is if there are any good reasons for people to be upset about not being in exclusive relationships. Besides cultural bias, of course.
Of course! There are plenty of good reasons; not the least of which is custody concerns for any possible children, not to mention the father's capacity to support them. Monogamy laws are in place to safeguard against the possibility of one man fathering 650 children and leaving them all to rot [of course, whether I favor such a statute or not is a slightly different topic].

Emotionally speaking, I don't suppose I can answer that for a couple of reasons: first, one's reasons and needs in a relationship are his/her own and I can't begin to explain them. Secondly, I've never actually been in a relationship.

Ever.

Does it really harm you if your boy-friend or girl-friend has sex with another person? It seems like saying they shouldn't rely on any other person for emotional support- and that doesn't seem like something a lot of people get upset about as opposed to sex which is reason enough for some people to murder.
I can't understand the last sentence but to answer the first; of [i]course it can cause emotional harm, but I can't begin to fathom the reasons for it; being as that I'm not a person who has had this happen to me, nor have I discussed the issue at length with someone who has. The act does precislely as much harm, strictly speaking, as you allow it to.

Well, I see it this way. Simply sleeping with someone else outside of a relationship is not in and of itself wrong.

It becomes wrong when you and your partner had an agreement(explicit or implied) that you will only sleep with each other. If you sleep around then, you violate another's trust and a promise you made to them. That hurts them, and as such your action is wrong.

But the mere act of having sex with someone outside of your relationship is not wrong.

this question is just stupid you dont have to have sex with someone to have people to rely on emotionally so ur question is just stuid, and one practical reason its wrong to cheat is the spread of std's

this question is just stupid you dont have to have sex with someone to have people to rely on emotionally so ur question is just stuid, and one practical reason its wrong to cheat is the spread of std's
Don't post stupid shit like this again. If you don't have anything constructive to say about the topic, avoid the thread altogether. If you think the question is stupid, just don't answer it. If you feel compelled to respond anyway, do not harp on how stupid the question and/or poster is.

Also, if you want your points to be taken seriously, try to phrase them more clearly. I feel like I lost a handful of neurons just reading that; and I prefer to lose neurons while enjoying a buzz, not reading Nationstates.

Someone else a while ago on NS - think it was Eichen - put it thus: "No thanks, I don't want someone else's sloppy leftovers."

Before I say anything I would like to state that when two people enter into a relationship which they agree is supposed to be exclusive to outside partners I think it is wrong to cheat. It's like lying.

What I'm asking is if there are any good reasons for people to be upset about not being in exclusive relationships. Besides cultural bias, of course.

Does it really harm you if your boy-friend or girl-friend has sex with another person? It seems like saying they shouldn't rely on any other person for emotional support- and that doesn't seem like something a lot of people get upset about as opposed to sex which is reason enough for some people to murder.

Everything depends on what was mutually agreed upon.

Exclusive means exclusive. If that's the agreement, then cheating harms someone.

If you don't want an exclusive relationship, then don't have one. There's also a lot of ground in-between - but you have to be up front about what the conditions are.

Before I say anything I would like to state that when two people enter into a relationship which they agree is supposed to be exclusive to outside partners I think it is wrong to cheat. It's like lying.

What I'm asking is if there are any good reasons for people to be upset about not being in exclusive relationships. Besides cultural bias, of course.

Does it really harm you if your boy-friend or girl-friend has sex with another person? It seems like saying they shouldn't rely on any other person for emotional support- and that doesn't seem like something a lot of people get upset about as opposed to sex which is reason enough for some people to murder.

Well.. I suppose if you both agree to a "We should see other people" type of temporary seperation, then anger is uncalled for. However, it is my personal belief that being in a relationships implies exclusivity.